The Michael Knowles Show - Spencer Klavan is STUNNED By Michael's Answer | YES or NO

Episode Date: December 30, 2022

Spencer Klavan sits down with Michael Knowles to see how well they think they know each other. They must choose "Yes" or "No" when it comes to gay marriage, religion, and how to deal with the porn epidemic. Check it out! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Nespresso. Life moves quickly and taking care of yourself shouldn't feel like another chore. With the new Nespresso virtual up machine, morning routines become rituals. Whether organizing, getting the household moving or preparing for the day, your coffee shouldn't ask for more. With Virtual Up, just press brew and your morning begins. Rich aroma, bold flavor, zero effort. Press to explore. Every coffee, a new world. New Virtual Up, shop now at nespresso.com. places can expose you to identity theft. Oh no. That's why LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone can do on their own. If we find anything suspicious, like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, we alert you right away all through text, phone, email, or the LifeLock app. Get the alerts that could make all the difference. Save up to 40% your first year at LifeLock.com slash special offer. Terms apply. Skipping leg day is a lot like attending

it's a lot like attending a liberal arts college and staying committed to your cheating girlfriend. In both cases you are throwing your life away while also acting like a butter soft simp who just hopes things will work themselves out. Like the former

president, I have a major announcement. If you go right now to dailywire dot com slash shop you can get your very own copy of the yes or no game. Look at this. We've got game pieces in here. We got a scorecard. We got cards. This is the real deal. We had an initial run of these. I think we had about a thousand boxes of this game. They sold out instantly. And so unfortunately, I think we would have sold

10,000 of these things had we had them in time for Christmas. You can't get it as a stocking stuffer, but you can pre-order your copy right now. And you should pre-order because I think these are going to sell out to. Dailywire.com slash shop. You can play with up to nine people, test how well you know your friends and family and loved ones. Discuss all the most important issues of the day. Debate. Do aliens exist? What are the merits of vegan suffrage? What do you know about God, life, the whole universe? Head on over to dailywire.com slash shop. Get your copy of the yes or no game in the flesh. In the box. I don't know, in the cardboard. the flesh here, my very good friend of many, many years.

Indeed. Spencer Claven. Hey, good to see you. I'm glad you're finally on this show. When you buy the game, does it come with the day drinking? It does. You can. It's not required that you have a couple of Coca-Cola's when you play the game, but you can, and I, for one, encourage it. It enhances the experience. It does enhance the experience. We have our drinks. I have a bit of a girly drink. You know, I actually think the martini, it's a manly drink. It's the James Bond drink. It's the James Bond drink. It gets a Rad rap because people put berries and things. That, okay, this is very important.

Maybe this is like, you know, a side piece, but that is not a martini. That is, if you, like, sugar, if you've got, like, sugar around the rim, you're serving something else. Yeah, that's not, it's like a sex on the beach. Now, you have a delicious glass of scotch. I do. I saw this troll on Twitter who said, it was like, you know, all these conservatives, they grow these beards to try to look manly.

Because this is fake masculinity. And so I thought I not only have a beard, I have whiskey neat at 2.30 in the afternoon. I am one of those manly conservatives you heard about. That's right. You know, 2.30 is usually when I go to the dentist. Okay, shall we begin? I'm ready. Bring it on. Like porn, violent or graphic video games are bad for society and should be banned.

There's a lot. There's a lot there. Of portions of that question. Violent or graphic video games. So I have to say whether you... I think that's true or not. I'm going to put you on the yes. I'm not sure.

This is like a how-based is Know's question. I know. And you've got me on no. I've got you on no. Conditionally, yes. You're right. And my answer, conditionally. All right.

I want to hear about the conditions. But first you have to drink, right? Or no. Well, did I get you wrong? What's your answer? No, no, no, you got me right. So I guess you get to me. I did. Okay.

Okay, very well. So I say conditionally. It's a real margin call only because I do think that some video games can warp your mind. Like when I was playing Donkey Kong Country as a kid, man, that stuff had me messed up, okay? You had misapprehensions about monkeys? Yeah, I was walking around throwing barrels in people everywhere I went.

Did nobody, yeah. I was, I never played a lot of video games, but I did get a kick out of Grand Theft Auto. Oh, sure. It was so outrageous, shocking. But when I was learning to drive, because I had played Grand Theft Auto a lot, where all I would ever do is I'd try to hit the guys on the motorcycle and make them fall off the motorcycle.

When I was learning to drive, there was a motorcycle coming down the road. And it all turned out okay. I had the impulse to veer in and hit him head on. Oh, interesting. Because I'd played this video game so much. And so I think in extreme cases, there should be some regulatory authority to set standards for video games. Right. But broadly speaking, like I wouldn't ban Call of Duty or something like that.

Yeah. What's your take? Okay. Well, somebody obviously knows me because they're trying to mess with me with this question. I mean, I am kind of not famously, but known as some, like a kind of video game optimist. I think they contain some of the great works of art of our generation. I think like as fine art has dithered into abstraction and obscurity, you can actually turn on like Final Fantasy. and see panoramas, like, you know, unlike anything else that's being bad.

So all of that to say, like, I'm a total lib about this. And part of this, I think, is probably because my taste in video games is, like, Crash Bandicoot. Like, Fuzzy McFuzzerson defeats the Evil Dragon. And so I'm like, these are great. Like, they're so beautiful. I'm having so much fun. Because in Crash Bandicoot, you don't carjack hookers that shoot them, right? I think you can get an expansion pack.

It's like a skin. You can re-skin it. Well, no. And I do, I mean, I like, like, God of War, was one of my favorite. And Gears of War. Everything is of War, but the Gears of War game. And those are definitely, I wouldn't give them to a child.

You know, like, and I think, like, there's a huge domain of parental supervision and engagement. It's one of those problems that goes, like, way deeper than the thing that is the tip of the iceberg. It's like, well, the breakdown of society, like, you know, the failure of the modern American family, like, the corrosion of our values. All of it, like, you know, you'd have to rectify all of that before I would be like, and you also should ban the video. But I mean, like movies, I definitely don't think, you know, I think there should be some restrictions in place to make sure kids aren't playing. Right. I don't know.

They do melt your brain. So since we both got it right, we just chose to drink anyway. Naturally. Okay. I can't. The glass is too appealing. It's too appealing. And the other thing, I've really restricted my drinking on this show in some recent episodes because we shot the thing at, like, 10.

10 in the morning. And even for me, even I am not that much of a degenerate. Right. All right, you're up. Oh, boy. Okay. So I get to pick it. Oh, I did not know this. Okay. Stephen Crowder is right. One of the most overrated writers in history is Shakespeare. I did not know that Stephen Crowder thinks this.

Yes, I had never said that. We pay no attention to facts on this show. No. So that may or may not be. But I'll take them at this world. Just pick somebody. Jeremy Boring thinks that, yeah. that Shakespeare is the most overrated writer in history? Yeah. It's a big claim. One.

Definitely. This is an easy one for me. It would be a no. That's a big no. Has he ever heard of Tony Morrison? I know Zora Neal Hurston. There's just a huge, like that chick that wrote the poem at the inauguration. Oh my goodness.

I saw, I was in a bookshop the other day, and I saw two collections of her poetry. What was her name? I can't remember. Amanda Gorman. I'm shocked at myself. Where'd you pull that from? No idea. Yeah.

The things that I don't know because I know that is probably too depressing to think about. Like there's some line of poetry I've forgotten, but I know Amanda Gorman's. I remember a line of literary criticism where the late great literary critic Harold Bloom referred to slam poetry as the death of art. Ah. What's with the hate for Shakespeare? Why would anyone hate Shakespeare? So I'm going to make the strongest possible case for this. I mean, because for one thing, it's impossible to be more highly rated than she.

I mean, you know, if you leave aside the woke crazies who likes a white man, whatever, you know, he is kind of, his name is like synonymous with literary excellence. And I at least think that there are some other writers in the English canon, Milton, for instance. Even if just, you're just restricting yourself to like English language. Yeah, yeah. There's definitely other contenders for the throne of the great poet of English. And the other thing you could kind of adduce, as perhaps Crowder does, who knows, is that, you know, Shakespeare's reputation is kind of invented in the generations after

his death by, you know, Johnson and Boswell and those great, who put him on the stage with, like, Escalis and he's our, you know, he's the English languages. But I don't know, man, you know, for God's sake, let us sit upon the ground and tell sad stories of the death of kings, how some have been deposed, some sleeping killed, some poisoned by their wives, all murdered, for within the hollow crown that rounds the mortal temples of a king keeps death his court. And there the antics sits, allowing him a breath, a little space to monarch eyes, be feared and kill with looks. And humored thus, comes at the last. And with a little pin, bores through his castle wall and farewell king.

Cover your heads and mock not flesh and blood with solemn ceremony, for you have but mistook me all this while. I live with bread like you. Taste, want, feel, grief, need friends. Subjected thus, how can you say to me, I am a king? Remember, Jew, though justice be thy plea, consider that no. We're politically incorrect ones. You're getting us banned even without the bad questions. I'm just being banned by reading Merchant of Venice.

Ultimately, when you're faced with a genius of that totality, which really, I mean, the language aside is the completeness of his vision of human life, the capacity of it. I mean, we've been talking a lot about Dante lately, and I think he's maybe the person you could put next to Shakespeare for that just like, totalizing vision of human life. It's got to come from one mind. And I have no, I've seen no evidence why it shouldn't have been Shakespeare. And if it was some guy named Bob, like, what difference does it make? Bob, Billy, old. I love when they say, Shakespeare was actually,

he was actually multiple people. And I think, yeah, because you know, you know what produces really great art committees. Committees are known for their artistic vision and skill, right? All right, next question. Yes. I am more inclined to believe that the earth is flat than that bodies were recovered from Roswell. Okay, after we answer this, we have to diagram. Yes, basically, I'm seeing many verbs and, like a lot, yeah, snaking. Okay, so I am trying to decide whether you think it's more likely that the earth is flat than that bodies were recovered from Roswell. Oh, this is actually really hard.

I thought it was easy and then it turned out to be hard. Boy, oh boy. Okay, this is a good. Once we rewrite. I'll drink, too, just in solidarity. Okay. No, I am much more inclined to believe in the flat Earth theory, since the Earth actually is flat for all intents and purposes.

This is Jonathan Pajos big thing. This is Owen Barfield's point. Yes. Okay. So that was why I instantly went for, you know, and then I thought actually he's probably going to say, that Alan Barfield, yes, go on. I also, like, demons exist.

Aliens don't exist, but demons exist. Right. But they don't have bodies. The definition of an angel or a demon is that they're pure spirit. Right, right, right. So they didn't, whatever they found at Roswell or whatever, you know, Soviet spy plane. Even if they found a demon, they wouldn't be able to grab his body. You don't have a body.

Right, right. But what about, what about counterargument? What about what Beatrice says to Dante when he asks her whether the blessed souls really are on Venus or really are. She says they showed themselves to you here, not because this is their sphere, they all live in the Empirian, but as a sign for you, since this is suited to your senses. And in this way, the Bible condescends, right, to speak of God as having hands and feet, but meaning something else. Yes. All of this to say, right, like couldn't, it might be the case that although angels and demons don't have bodies. They could appear to have bodies

at Roswell. Yes, they might affect us. But I guess the way I picture that, because we entertain angels unawares. And I could give you exactly. examples where I'm quite confident this actually happened. Please. But I'll tell you, I didn't reach out and grab them. I kind of wonder if there really were demons or something, you know, at Roswell, the moment that the cops went out there to get him, it'd be like a B ghost movie, where they go grab and they just kind of fall right in.

Interesting. Now, so, was I was correct on the flat earth thing? You were right. You're more inclined to believe in the flatterer. Well, that only... Is that what you said? said that I'm more scientifically, right, but only in this Owen Barfieldy way, which you should probably define since people are going to be watching us, which is to say that the notion that there is a

scientific theory of physical space that not simply, that doesn't simply correspond to our perceptions, but actually outlines the bedrock of reality is heretical and a scientific fallacy. Yes. This is why, Right, this is the problem with Galileo. It's not that he thinks the earth revolves around the sun. It's that he thinks there is an answer to, does the Earth revolve around the sun or vice versa, which reflects some absolute fundamental truth, which makes fundamental truth physical rather than spiritual.

Yes, okay. Yes, because that's what they say. Sometimes if people ask the Galileo question, they'll say, does the Earth revolve around the sun? And I'll say, man is the center of the universe. They'll say, but, you know, does the Earth revolve, I say, in the best way I have of, describing reality is that man is at the center of the universe.

That's right. And they will say, no, no, no. Yeah, I get it. You're using some stupid metaphor talk. But like, literally, objectively. Yeah, yeah. Literally and you're telling me that the fundament of reality is some stupid rock. I mean, that's not true. Nobody really believes that. Right, right. And I mean, it is, in fact, true, so far as I understand, that you can describe the universe as, you know, revolving around the Earth. I mean, it's just, the equations are a lot more complicated. But the fact that they're more complicated doesn't mean that they don't actually describe, you know, they don't predict the outcomes of our observations. Right. That is all, like, it is a kind of a fiction, a pernicious fiction, that when we write math, which predicts

physical outcomes, we are somehow getting something more real than the experience, the quote-unquote subjective, which by which people usually mean arbitrary, right, experience of the world as it occurs to our senses. This is like a real problem. And so the argument that the earth is flat is not that if you walked far enough, you'd fall off it, but that for your, in your experience of the world, it is flat. You don't have to account for its curvature as you walk. You can see it's, you know. So yeah, I think that's true, although that's not what the conspiracy theory. I guess the conspiracy theory is also scientific and is also referring to a physical. But yes, if someone said, Michael, well, the question that keeps coming up, what is a woman?

Right. Is what is a woman? And unfortunately, the conservative answer keeps being two X chromosomes and a uterus. That's right. Adult human female. Even that's better than two X chromosome ors and a uterus could be his race. But you know, the real answer. Go on.

Sugar, spice, and everything nice. That's a much more accurate and descriptive answer. It is. Yes. Yeah, I would say, you know, it's a two-legged rational animal, you know, of the female gender. Right. And yeah, and these, there is this problem, and this happens a lot, I think. It occurred to me just the other day that there's a certain form of biblical literalism, which is also scientific. Because you start out with the true statement that everything in the Bible is true. And then you defend that statement by trying to claim that every word of the Bible corresponds to a physical event in space and time. Which, you know, again, if you chase this down, you get like in the Psalms, you get the, you get the, the earth revolving around the, or you get the sun, rather, moving across the sky, revolving around the earth and so forth. And this is a con that the libs pull the traditionalists

into, which is they say, like, oh, well, you can't prove, you know, show me on a map. And then our response is like, yes, I can show you on a map. It's the XX chromosomes. It's the whatever. And of course, the response should be, that's a completely childish and untenable view of the world, even according to science, right? Like, even once you get down to the quantum level, you realize that perception does have this fundamental role to play. Right, right. Describe a kiss. Exactly. Like, oh, it's when

these lips, which are made up of these atoms, kind of do this, like, it's like this thing, and then like some, maybe a little like a tongue if you're French, kind of comes in. Yeah, yeah, and that's the dopamine surges, and then that's what a kiss is, right? Of course. Okay, so it's my turn. Here we go. Okay.

Okay, well, this is going to be easy. There's no possible way that a gym selfie could be considered an appropriate thing for a self-respecting man to post on Instagram. Well, you know my answer to this, but I'm not sure I know yours. We're going to spill a little bit of tea here, I think. Are we going to pull out Jim selfies? That's right. Yeah, they made me take away my phone for this. Oh, okay. No possible way.

You're correct. Oh, boy. Okay, I'm going to drink it. Yeah, I choose to as well. Okay, you are also correct, of course. And I must have gotten this from you, so I guess it's sort of cheating. But when I think of Arete, when I think of real excellence, okay, I think, yes, we can demonstrate our intellectual, yes, we can, we can demonstrate some virtues through acts of kindness and charity. but also we need to post physique is what we need to do. Because the physical excellence matters too.

Yes. This is in one of the central chapters of my book, which I should probably talk about because I'm supposed to publish it. I would plug that. I'll plug the book. It's called How to Save the West. And there's a whole section on the body in the relationship between body. And this is, it's a tricky thing because I accept the premise of the question,

which is, if I were to rephrase it, I would say, there's no possible way that most Jim selfies that get posted are something that a self-respecting man would post on Instagram. On the other hand, we live in a culture where in order to break down every standard of objective excellence, we are constantly assaulted with ugliness. that is one of the major kind of means of our, I wouldn't even call it, you know, I mean, leftist is almost too small a term for it. It's like, you know, my friend James Bullis calls it the Borg, right? It's this totalizing, out of control, kind of sameness and, you know, in CS Lewis's Scrutate proposes a toast. He has a perversion of democracy, which is kind of reflected also in, like, de Tocqueville, the total equalizing impulse. that I'm as good as you, everything as good as is everything else.

And, you know, why are we constantly being shown images of obese women in their underwear, right? That didn't used to be the case. I used to. I remember because I was a kid. And the Victoria's Secret billboards and the catalog, it'd have super hot picks. And now it doesn't. And the minute you say this, people say, you hate fat people. Which is like, no, no, no. I don't hate that. I got Michelle Obama over here. Some of my gosh. Friends are fat. Yeah. But the point is not at all what is the range of things that's okay for a person to be.

The point is, what do we aspire to? What are our images of excellence? And to deny that there's such a thing as physical excellence is corrosive and demeaning and belittling to people. And just obviously not true. We all know that it's not. I know, I say this as an international sex symbol. Let's recognize physical beauty and excellence where it is. Exactly.

Okay. Did I read that one? That was me. That was you. Okay, I read this one. America will not correct course and will cease to exist as we know it before 2050. 2050? Yeah.

Drink. Go on. You think I'm a pessimist about this? Yes. You think that I think America is doomed? Yeah, you're an editor at the Claremont. Goodness gracious. Well, I know that pessimism is.

like a favorite pastime of the conservative movement. And I'm only saying no because of the absolutism of the prediction, which I reject out of hand. I think nothing is written in the stars until it happens. I also think, you know, things could go terribly wrong. You can always see how things could go terribly wrong. But there's a ton of, you know, energy and excitement also about recognizing the problem, more than I think has been true in a long time. So no, I'm not a determinist about anything. I think determinism is unmanned. You know, I was wrong because I underestimated your optimism. You were right because you overestimated my optimism. My feeling is that America won't be so fundamentally different in the future from where we are now.

It'll just limp on it. It'll just kind of, yeah, we're already on like a kind of a bad path, but maybe we can change it. I agree, determinism is for wimps. Yeah, yeah. Losers. Right, right. But there's a difference between a conservative optimist and a conservative pessimist. That's okay. Conservative pessimist says things can't get any worse. And a conservative optimist says, oh yes, they can. That's great. Yes, I remember that. Yeah, I mean, it's big like, you know, late Western Roman Empire hours.

Like 2050 is small. That's nothing compared to the like horse. You know, we could elect a horse as a senator. We could do any sort of things. We may have. All right. We've got to answer some of these questions. Okay. Okay. Ooh, good.

Stoicism is compatible with Christianity. Yeah, okay. Go on. I mean, you got me right. It's another one of these hard questions because Paul reaches for the Stoics, almost more than any other. I mean, I don't have like a tally, but I feel like he's more into the Stoics than any other Greek philosopher.

And John, the prelude to John's gospel in the beginning was the word, obviously in some deep consonants with stoic metaphysics. But stoicism, full stop, is incompatible with Christianity, right? It's the cyclical notion of time, this whole thing that, like, the soul dissolves into atoms, like, or whatever the soul's made out of, right? That's incompatible. But I think stoicism is one of the most easily baptizable and most frequently baptized forms. I noticed a lot of kind of tech bros and Silicon Valley types,

got really into stoicism in the last 10 years or so. And I think that is not contrary to what I see as a Christian revival. I think it's sort of part of the Christian revival. But yes, ultimately, the two are not. This is, I just, I just wrote this whole, we're coming out with this new introduction to the Stoic, gateway to the Stoics, we're just reprinting some old translations, but I wrote a forward to it. So I did a lot of this, like, you know, I went on the Reddit forum for Stoicism, which is huge. I mean, like, who does? Every night, you know, right before bed, I know. Do you think you're joking, but it's like half a million people are on it. Like these Reddit bros be like, you know, scrolling through Epictetus, you know. And they talk about

this stuff. And I did find a lot of this kind of, it's sort of like Christian atheism. You know, it's like I like the thing that this delivers, but I don't want to like the bullet about the metaphysics of it. And so I did find a lot of people being like, well, you can't really talk about gods anymore. But, you know, it's like, well, look, I mean, the things that appeal about stoicism are all things that, you know, we come. to us through Christianity, like, all men are brothers, right? It's like, so who's their father? Right? All men are brothers? Who's the dad, right? Oh, we all brothers? Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, it's not literally true, so something must be spiritual about that, and it must be real. Yeah. And I do think there's, like, a temptation among these people to be like, oh, I got Stoicism.

Now I have a false. Now we're good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, you think, you think Titus is epic, you know, just wait until you discover John. Yeah, let me tell you about somebody called John a Patmos. A little something, something, yeah, exactly. It's OK to be white is a racist statement. Oh. This is too easy. No, I'm joking. I'm joking.

All right, you white supremacist. That's not racist? We're going to get kicked off of YouTube. We are for this. I know. No, I think not only... It's like I'm sitting across with Kanye here, you said you're white supremacist, you know. You just called me a Jew.

I don't know. I, uh, no. I mean, not only is it okay to be white, not a racist statement, but calling it a racist statement is how you end up with actual white supremacists. In a certain point, I think, you know, I'm truly as open-minded sort of, I don't get angry. I'm like the only guy in the conservative movement, probably other than you, who doesn't get angry. We were just talking about this back state, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I don't think about race almost ever. Right. But I think, you know, if you're, if you just come up to me, you just come up to me, say like, it's not okay to be white. I think like, well, all right. Yeah, nobody would have ever had to, like, you know, it would have never, it would have been completely ungentlemanly. Yeah.

Like 20 years ago for me or anybody to be like, go out there and pump my fist and be like, it's okay to be white, right? Like, that would just seem uncouth, you know? And so naturally, I think you and I both are fairly affable fellows, you know. We don't want to, like, go out here carrying signs that say things like, you know, men are men, you know. Nobody wants to be better things to do with my time and more interesting things to But like, but if you're going to call it into question, then yeah, yes, I got to say it.

Right. I know. I know. We should drink to that. We should. Amen. Yeah. Cheers.

That's right. All right. My turn, right? Your turn. Okay. These are great. Libertarians. You guys did a great job.

Good job. Yeah. Well done, everybody. We need to talk about grammar, but we'll get to that later. Libertarians are basically communists who either shower. or don't live off their parents. That's the whole thing. Well, fair enough.

Oh, boy. You're going to make me drink for that? No, we obviously agree. Oh, man. I feel like I have to make you drink just to be, like, nice. Yeah, we're all friends. Look, some of my best friends are libertarians. Truly, I mean, truly, some of my best friends are fat.

Some of my best friends are fat libertarians. But, yeah, but, I mean, the statement's correct because the libertarian is. and the communists, I think, ultimately share the same view of anthropology. Ultimately, they believe that men are fundamentally individuals born primarily in as much as we have a political life with rights and entitlements. And the communes say we're all individuals, and then they bunch us all up together and they're sort of a hideous collective. And the libertarians just don't get to that next stage. But both of them reject the reality of man.

It's not nearly an individual, but is a social. being is a political animal born into a family in time and space, into a community, into a nation with, I think, primarily duties and obligations and traditions. And he has rights and things too. But that's not the primary fact of his political nature. This is a great argument, and it's making me understand, I think, what my answer to this question is. Um, Solzhenitsyn, sorry, Dostoevsky. Do I have Jordan Peterson on the show? Yeah, right, exactly. Dostoyevsky, the narrator in Brothers Karamazov, very early on, says socialism is just the Tower of Babel project. Done for real, the effort to bring heaven down to earth.

And I think this is an extremely apt statement. And you are basically saying libertarians and communists have the same fundamental idea about human personhood, which is that we are interchangeable widgets. And even though libertarians don't chase this to its logical conclusion, that is the Tower of Babel project. Let us all have one language, one place, you know, like just the total uniformity follows on from the idea of the individual as seemingly autonomous, but actually just kind of empty, right? Just consumer A, consumer B. And so my answer is actually, I think, going to be the same as my answer about stoicism, which is to say, stoicism alone cannot save. libertarianism alone is, you know, as like a totalizing philosophy of the world is basically the metaphysics of communism. But I know a lot of people who have libertarian, like, ideas and

leanings about how we should operate within a constrained sphere who are not really, you know, who think that libertarianism is like an operating system that you can run within an already existing computer called America. Yes. And the critique of libertarianism is, well, that computer is, like, now completely has gone viral. Yeah, it's totally fried, in part because, because of an excess of classical level. So, yeah, I don't, you have to drink, but go. Okay, but I'll drink anyway. Right, why not?

In fact, your turn? Okay, and by the way, Spencer, I'm gonna give you a little show business right now. You're telling me in my ear that they split this question into two cards. I feel like I got the backstage pads. You got it. This is how it really works around.

Are they, the alien, are they giving you, like, directives? They are, they always are. You're speaking when I have an earpiece in and when I don't. This is all those computer theorists are going to, on Twitter there. Mm-hmm. Conspiracy.

Realists. Yes. Conspiracy scholars, shall we say? We are being conditioned so that before the 2024 election, there will be a transgender version of George Floyd, along with the subsequent protests and social unrest. Knowles, this is a fun game. I like this game.

Yeah, people should buy this game. It's a great game to get at home, by the way. I don't know how much it costs or what. when you're going to get it. But it is going to sell out, so you actually should. I did that. I did that just because you let me plug my book. Thank you. Thank you very much. They're going to call this. They'll call it grift, but really it's just friendship. Boy, okay, so there will be a transgender version of George Floyd.

You've already put my drink. I say, no. Oh, my gosh. I say, you say. I don't know what I say. I don't know what I say. I don't know what you say. I don't think you know what you say. I don't think you know what you say. I don't think you know what you say either. For that. Half the time. Create your answer by moving your martini. Oof. Yeah, no, that's not going to happen. There's like 12 of them, and I know that they're trying to groom the kids now, so it's like 20% plus of Gen Z according to that one random survey. Right, right, right.

Questioning and everything. But, no. There's a lot of kids out there who think they're transgender. That's a very different thing from like, yeah. Also, it's just race is the line in America that actually has. has been an issue from the earliest days of the country. Right. Whereas this new gender fad is simply that.

There were no transgender plantation. Yes. There was not like an actual crime against humanity, like embedded into our history vis-a-vis transgender people. Yes. Whereas you're right. Like the whole thing about race in America is that they're actually grabbing on to something truly awful traumatic in our past.

Yeah. And the other aspect of this is it's too specific. It's like, you know, it's a little tinfoah hide. But I certainly think if they could, they would. I mean, the version of this that's kind of, that is real is, and this, we're going to get banned for like five different reasons off of YouTube. This is the end of this show, I hope that's okay. That's fine.

I had a good run. Yeah, right, exactly. It sold some games. No, the version of this that is real is the, like, transgender people are being murdered en masse in the streets. They kind of have this line that goes on and that is created to

and also if you don't pump your kid full of hormones, they'll commit suicide. Yeah, you've killed your kid. They totally hold you emotional hostage with all of these things, which are lies, right? These are not true things. But no, I don't think they can fabricate out of nothing. I mean, I don't think they fabricated George Floyd out of nothing.

You know, so no. Okay. Yeah. I'll drink anyway. Yeah, why not? Let's be honest. I like where... I like the start. I like where this is going. 95% of our political issues in America

would be solved if benching 225 pounds was a requirement to vote. Hmm. Well... Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, I remember one time, maybe it was Anne Coulter, said we need to repeal the 19th Amendment. Mm-hmm. And I'm sure she said it more than one time. But I was talking to Elisa about this, and Elisa, this was early on in our sweet little Lisa in my dating life. And she goes, oh my gosh, that's crazy. You know, come on.

And I sort of thought and I said, well, what's the point of voting? Because what you are being asked right now, you, sweet little Elisa, would you give up your vote to have a better political outcome? So I thought of it and I said, because women vote for Democrats and men vote for Republicans. It's more complicated than that, but basically. But basically, that's right. And I thought, well, young people vote for Democrats and older people vote for Republicans. So if you told me tomorrow, Michael, the only people over 50 get to vote, would I agree to that?

I absolutely would agree to that. I'd lose my vote. Right, right. But I'd have a better political outcome for my community. Now, I'm not saying I can't bench 250 pounds. No. But if it were a risk that I couldn't. In the hypothetical universe where you're not putting up three plates for rents. Yeah, yeah, like a big beef cake that I am. Yeah, right, exactly. I would still go for it because it would have a better outcome for my political community.

Yeah, this body by lasagna. Well, okay, so I am in favor of voting. I mean, I am not a like everybody. Everybody must have votes, you know, like. Lower the age to five. Yeah, exactly. Twice, in fact, if, you know, if possible. So I think, you know, I've heard good arguments for like you should own land to vote. You know, I do think the question was, would our political outcomes be improved? Yes. And the answer to that question is certainly yes. Totally. The other question behind it is should we therefore do it? And I'm not enough of a lib to say just because you get better outcomes doesn't mean it's just.

Well, you won't get it. There's no, there is no, no, no, we're not going to do this. to actually do it. But yes, would, if only Gigacads voted, would we have better political outcomes? Yeah. I just think that's a statistical fact. Even Lib Jim Bros are way more reasonable than Lib, like, couch potatoes. Totally, totally. Okay. Easy. Okay, okay. I'm up. There is at least a 51% chance JFK was not killed by the communist Lee Harvey Oswald. Hmm. Fifty-one. Fifty-one percent chance that he was not killed by Oswald. I think he was killed. killed by hate.

There is an epit, the real epitemeter. Yeah, exactly. No, he was killed by Oswald, I think. Do the people who, like, I know there was just this release where Tucker did a whole segment where he essentially said that the CIA was involved in JFK killing, but, and there are all these files from the CIA and their relationship with Oswald that was sort of have not come to pass. But even still, does anybody say that Oswald didn't pull the trick?

Didn't pull the trigger? Didn't pull the trigger? I am not up on this conspiracy theory. Yeah. I'm kind of, I like the, I'm into the moon ones. I'm into a, you know, like, I mess around with some of those. Yeah, yeah. But like, this is one that kind of bores me because, yeah, I sort of think he did pull the trigger. Yeah. So, no, I don't think anybody thinks it was like Grover. Like, who. Right, right. Yeah, I don't, yeah, it wasn't just LBJ sitting on the knoll. Yeah, yeah, much as he might have celebrated. It would have been delighted. Right, right. Okay, all right, that's good. All right.

It's the only conspiracy theory that we were. Ah, this is a good one. The Respect for Marriage Act is neither respectful nor about marriage. Respect for Marriage Act is neither respectful nor about marriage. So we're saying, yes, it is not respectful or about marriage. That's right. If you agree that it is not about neither of marriage. of those things, you should say yes. I was going to say no. Now that you've said that, I think maybe

I do think yes. Okay, don't drink and we'll explain the sides of this, I think. Because Well, I'm going to drink anyway. Are you right, right? First of all, did I get it right? No, I would say it is not about respect or marriage. I don't think it's, I don't think it's, I don't So I also have to. I have to. So you have to drink. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So because I was thinking you would say, well, it is about merit. It's about destroying. Yeah, yeah. It's not. It's not. It's But the people who pushed it, the libs who pushed it, I don't think they give a damn about marriage, and I don't think they want to respect people. I think they want to drive Jack Phillips and masterpiece cake shop out of business. And they tried to do it through the court, and the court wouldn't let him do it.

And so now, and they take the Obergefell decision, which redefines marriage, and they go further than that. And they say, no business, no wedding website maker, no cake shop owner, whatever, is allowed to. not participate in a gay marriage. Totally. And I think this is, that interpretation of it's not about marriage is definitely correct. I think it's about,

it's nominally, obviously, about marriage. But I agree that, and I've gotten a little red-pilled on this way. The moment is when they rejected the Lee amendment, which basically just said in the kind of gentlest possible terms, perhaps you, you might have tried constitutional. to sue, not even an organization, but an individual out of existence because they express. And so, yeah, I mean, I think, I agree with you about a burghapel.

I mean, we are on the same page, I think, about that. And I think that, you know, when the bill first came up, I thought, well, I truly believe that when it comes to, like, some sort of place in society for freedom-loving gay people. Yeah. Like, we can work this out. You know what I mean? Like, we'll call it floof, we'll call it whatever. Like, there's something, there's some arrangement that makes sense that recognizes that a man and a woman producing children is at the center of our civic life, is marriage, but there are these arrangements that kind of still have a place in our society. I think there's, like, I really believe there's room for a good reasonable. That is the sort of Jonathan Peugeot.

He made this point on another conversation we're having where he said, you know, if you look at medieval manuscripts, there are all these kind of odd. and eccentric things all around the corners of the page. The marginalia. The marginalia. But they're not at the center of the universe. No, you wouldn't want the guy who's like farting a demon out to be. I'm not making that out. No, but I think this is right.

And I think that, you know, anybody sensible of any political persuasion. And so I thought, well, maybe there is some. Obergafel is not that. And that's why I dispute it, not because of its outcome, but because of it. its logic is not that. It's the logic of the, we talked about this before, the total all is the same. You define your, you define reality. A man and a man in a relationship is the same as a man and a woman in a relationship. I think you can believe a man in a man in a relationship is okay. You can believe it's not okay, but you can't believe it's the same. Nobody seriously

believes. Nobody can believe that. Because that means that men and women are the same. So that's, they're not the same, right? And so when they, when they rejected little, little Mr. Lee, who is like, you might like to not sue people out of, out of business. Then I was like, okay, so you're just totalitarian. And so, yeah, my basic answer. He's trying to crush. Yeah, I know, I know. I'll sell you one other thing about that bill, and then I guess we have to do another question, but I guess. I don't know. These are too interesting. The other thing about that bill that suddenly occurred to me is that all of these things were they were going to codify. Because we found out that actually you can't just write things in. If you just write things into law via the courts, you can actually

unwrite them. And this whole, it was this absurd thing that they did where it was like precedent. You can't overturn precedent. It's like, where does, what? Like, where did you get that? You can't overturn precedent. Like, Plessy. This is settled law. Like, you know, right. You don't want to do that. So, so they found this out and they were like, well, what we really need therefore is a bill to codify. It's like, I have a news for you about Congress. Like, every two years. We vote in new people. And it's like if they ever did Overturn O'Bergelf, which I think they should do and I think we should relitigate this question. If they ever did that, like, you just vote on another bill. So it's like, you can do it.

You don't need the permission of the Supreme Court to pass a bill. To pass a bill. Everybody wants, on all these questions, abortion, on gay marriage, everybody wants some cataclysmic victory that is going to, we're not going to have to think about it because one side won. That ain't politics in America. Like, we are having this, let us have the damn discussion. Yeah, that's... Right. Okay.

Yeah, very good point. I'm glad we both drank on it, even though I don't... I can't remember what we said. I mean, yeah, that's the point of the drinking. Skipping Leg Day is a lot like attending... It's a lot like attending a liberal arts college and staying committed to your cheating girlfriend.

In both cases, you are throwing your life away while also acting like a butter, soft simp who just hopes things will work themselves out. Did they make these, like, more and more extravagant? I don't think it's merely my perception. No, no, it's not the, yeah. Okay. There's so much in that question.

I'm not even going to try to parse it. I'm just going to take the spirit of it. Yeah. Which is, like, I was going to say, this is, like, pretty self-end. But. I call it like I see it. I like to think I'm quite unbiased. Mm-hmm.

Okay, even when my personal interest or ego are challenged by something. Hypothetically, in Minecraft. Hypothetically. Calling balls and strikes. That's what I do. Yeah. You're big into neutrality. I'm a big neutrality guy.

Michael Knowles, famous neutrality enjoyer, average neutrality enjoyer. Oh, boy. Generally speaking, if Protestants were to accept a tenant of Catholicism, either the Immaculate Conception or Purgatory, it's more likely it would be purgatory. Ah. There are a lot of Protestants in the world. There are a lot of Protestants.

Difficult question. Yes, yes. Many shades. Yes. Some say 30,000. Some might say that's a strike against Protestantism in the great schismaticism and the great schismatic debates. But that's a separate question.

Yeah. Yes. Okay. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. It's very hard. It's very hard for many Catholics to accept the Marian dogmas.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. To even accept that Mary has a really important place in the faith. For me, I was an atheist for 10 years. I came back into the faith. In many ways through Protestants, some of whom now, are Catholic, actually, interestingly, or reverted to Catholicism. But even for me, even well into it, the Marian stuff was tough for me. And now I find it so enriching and edifying and sanctifying

and, like, really central. Yeah. If not, if not, if not perfectly central, like quite close to it. That's right. My, this Protestant would accept, would take Mary before purgatory. although I'm open to both. I'm kind of like both of them. I am an average Mary enjoyer and I think like, but the reason that the correct answer to this is yes is that people are ready, they be out there ready to restart the 30 years war over this question. I mean, if you talk to people, they will be like they're Catholics, they are the idolaters because they have another God and she's a woman and whatever. They worship Mary. They worship Mary. Right. No, you need, I mean, there is, C.S. Lewis says that what is beyond time and space is so male that in relationship to it, we are all female.

This is true. This is beautiful. And it is right and just that the representative of humanity and man's relationship to God should be a mother and a woman. That's, to me, that's the beauty of the doctrine. I disagree about the perpetual virginity. But yes, I would go with that first, but I think most people would take that. That's right. But on the next game, we'll talk about marriage. But it is, I do remember, I remember when you got Mary pilled. And, and, and, and, or as you became increasingly merry-billed, and it is harder. It's purgatory, some of my Protestant, you know, they don't like it, but they can kind of see more of it. But, yeah, we'll have to do a whole yes or no game on Mary.

On Mary. Yeah, I think the doctrinal questions. You, yeah. That's me, okay. Cisophis is rolling a boulder toward the Grand Hilbert Hotel. The hotel has an infinite number of rooms, but they are full. so they may not be able to accommodate him or his boulder. If he chooses to divert his boulder, it will instead destroy the ship of Theseus.

But the ship has had all of its constituent parts replaced, so it may not actually be the same ship. Is Sisyphus happy? I think, I know, did people send these questions in? Or did the producers just write them? I think the producers just write them. Wow. I feel like I know exactly who asked this question, but I can't, it must be wrong.

It's too late in the game to answer this question in a serious way. Also, no. He's pushing a boulder up. You know, that's not, you can't be happy. This is not happy. This is not happy. There will be no existentialism sympathy on this year podcast. We will not accept even IOTA.

No. Stoicism, libertarianism, fat people. We can entertain all of these possibilities. But existentialism is a bridge too far. Dirty Camu out of here. It's out. Dirty Camus. I can't believe you brought up the C word.

It's a good name for a band, Dirty Kemman. If I had to pick between pre-mid and post-tribulation, oh, I hate this old. This is bad. I'm like the least Protestant Protestant Protestant. Pre-mid and post-tribulatory? Am I going to have to explain? Speaking Greek?

I don't know what you're talking about. I tend to side with the left-behind movie take and think rapture would be pre-tribulation. That sounds to me much more complicated than the Sisyphus question. It's vastly more complicated. And this is a series of questions. Whatever. But do your answer and then I will go on my right on this.

That's the wrong one. So, uh, I don't even know. I'm going to say no because no. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever. I mean, sure. Whatever.

Okay. I'm being the worst Protestant here because this is like, especially for evangelical Protestants, this is a matter of utmost concern. I've had so many people ask me about this. This is about the end. It's about the end times. It's about whether the thousand-year rain is going to be, I'm going to get this so-o bungled, but it's about whether like the lake of fire and the thousand-year rain, like when is Christ coming in between, like when does Christ actually come back? And then what happens after that, what happens before it? To me, this is a question on which we are expressly told. We have no idea. No one knows the day or the hour. Not even the son, but only the father-in-house. heaven. And so I find all of this to be vastly above my pay grade. I think the book of Revelation is a profound mystic vision, which, if read carefully, it's like people always say, is the tribulation,

is the revelation, whatever, is it about the sacking of the temple in, you know, by the Romans after Christ's death, or is it about some cosmic thing? And it's like, yes. The answer is yes. Like, there are real historical events that this refers to and those historical events. Is the book of revelation a mystical description of the Holy Mass? Yes. Yes, it is. Right. And so all of this, simply to say, like, stop worrying about it. Yes. I agree. Let's drink it. Let's drink to that. You read the tribulation. Yeah, yeah. Science is fake and gay. Obviously. I mean, right? Didn't you give a little speech about this? I remember seeing that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I've recently been a little bit like, live. bit on this in that what I really think is fake and gay is

scientism. And I think that natural philosophy is a venerable thing to do. And I think that people who... I didn't say, or well, I didn't say any of these, but the natural philosophy. I would never say natural philosophy is faking gay. I think most of the time what people mean when they say science is a thing that is fake and gay. Yes. And that is scientist. Easy. Easy. Yeah, yeah. The

reference of the word science. Understood reference. Oof, it is okay to wear sweatpants in public. Hmm. It's very hard when one does not go to the gym to understand the thinking of one who does go to the gym. What are you saying? Are you saying, you know?

No, no, no, right, no. Hypothetically. Yeah, yeah. I'm sitting here in my t-shirt with a man in a suit. No, I think... But you're not wearing sweatpants. That's right. I'm not wearing sweatpants.

The question hinges on the meaning of the word in public. So I think I'm going to make you drink because I will sweat pants to the... You were correct on my end. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Would you wear, if hypothetically you were to go to the gym, would you wear sweatpants to... Spencer, I would not wear sweatpants in private. No, you would wear a bow tie to the gym. I would.

Yes. I can't... I did... No, I wouldn't count the gym as in public. I mean, I'm saying, you know, one walking down the street, I would not. But there was a period where the Daily Wire was going to make a movie, and I was told to beef up. up for this. Oh, I remember. When I said body by lasagna, I wasn't cat. I remember you eating all the

yeah, yeah, shoveling pasta, pizza, meat, all this stuff. And I really did gain, I gained 20 pounds, and I cut my body fat in half. So it was actually muscle. I never cut, I never actually cut after or work, but I, I, no, you did it, bro. I totally, I remember. First time of my life, only time of my life. And I did purchase a pair of sweatpants for the occasion and a pair of sneakers also to Yeah, yeah. And they have not had much use since them. When you put them on, did you scream, Adrian? Hey, yeah.

I tried to break my nose a few times so that it would look convincing. Okay. Most likely, the elites at the top, such as Bill Gates, George Soros, and Klaus Schwab, are all just possessed by demons and or directly worship the devil in an attempt to transcend the human race and merge with their existence in a higher plane. Due to YouTube rules, make your guess, but do not verbally confirm if the other person guessed correctly. Give only an ambiguous nonverbal confirmation. Gates, Soros, and Schwab all worship demons.

Or are possessed by demons. I feel afraid to speak. I think I've just signed some sort of terms of service. Don't speak. Can we talk about it? Do we just have to? Talk about things. In the abstract, in the abstract, in Minecraft, let me tell a little story.

When Dobbs came down as an actual decision, when Rovuey Wade was overturned, I saw on Reddit in a Satanist forum, somebody struggling with whether or not to convert to Satanism. and one poster said, Satanism isn't really about worshiping Satan. It's just about bodily autonomy and privacy. It's really enlightenment virtues. And I thought, boy, do I have news for you? And that's my only answer to that question.

It's a very good answer. All right. It's a very good answer. The war in Ukraine is roughly 5% crazy Russians and 95% money laundering for the New World Order. I have to think what you say. You are right. Yeah, you have to drink. Oh, good.

Okay. All right. I don't think it's money laundering for the New World Order. I think it's an imperial war between the Western Empire and the Eastern Empire of Russia. And I think that any, the West is to. dishonest when they say it's about national independence for Ukraine. That's obviously absurd. It's about getting Ukraine to join NATO and the broader Western alliance. And that's why when there was a pro-Russian leader of Ukraine before 2014, we wielded our political power, as great powers do, to

influence the politics in that country and oust the pro-Russian guy and put in a more favorable pro-Western guy. And then Russia responded to that. by increasing its influence operations, including military operations in Ukraine. And then Obama, because he was weak, wasn't able to stop that. And Trump was able to stop these things. He was able to at least put a pause on them. And then Biden essentially invited Russia, I mean, actually invited Russia to invade when he said, if it's only a minor incursion in the East, then we won't really do anything

about it. And so Russia did that. And Russia said, it's unacceptable for Ukraine to join NATO. And Ukraine is a buffer state. and buffer states often do better when they play great powers off of one another than when they declare an allegiance to one or the other. That's often the proximate cause of war, and I think that's what happened in Ukraine.

All those beautiful towers. Yeah. That's very eloquently said. I think people misunderstand. The transgender question is like this too. I think people misunderstand how the New World Order works. And I think you see this with COVID as well. Yeah.

That, oh, it's the pandemic, or they engineered this in a lab to, no, no, they don't have, they're nowhere near competent enough to orchestrate these massive global events. What's true is that they have a totalizing philosophy. Yep. About how the world works, which is anti-human, which is, you know, post-human in some ways, which is evil and wrong. and which inclines them to respond. The only thing restraining that philosophy is circumstances. The fact that we live in a country which is still nominally a constitutional republic, to which politicians must still pay some form of lip service in order to succeed and so forth.

That held them back for however many years from saying what they already believed long ago about public health. It's not like COVID brought into being some new attitude about public health, right? And in fact, it barely brought into being a new virus. Exactly. It's just a variation on an old virus. Exactly. And so similarly, I don't think that any, I don't think that like money, nobody orchestrated the war in Ukraine to launder money. Right.

The war in Ukraine happened for a number of reasons, among them those that you just laid out. And it is the case that our leadership class is fackless, incompetent, and foundationally, philosophically wrong about metaphysics, which makes you evil. Being wrong about metaphysics makes you evil, even if you don't sit there with your hand, rubbing your hands together. Right, right, good point. Am I up? Oh, sorry, it's you.

I'm up. It's you. Okay. They are pervasive and key pillars of some of the most influential and wealthy brands in America. they strike at the very heart of American civilization and must be eradicated from society if the West just have a fighting chance of survival. But to mention them

is to be looked down upon with derision and contempt. By they and them, I mean seed oils. Wow. I was a little nervous, fellas. A little nervous. Duh. Oh, yeah. Duh.

Come on. At this point... Does this need defending? Yeah. At this point, I believe that one's view of seed oils is far more indicative of one's entire political outlook and whether or not I agree with a person than their view on immigration or whatever. It is one of the most defining political issues, even though it seems somewhat out of left field.

Yeah, these are way deeper signifiers. And this is like a general. operational thing that you have a hard time explaining to older people because it's it is it is a definitely more of a millennial yeah yeah this is why you get it's not because boomers are like stupid or wrong yeah it's like you know they say things like you don't believe in like unfettered free markets like you must be because like that was once that was once seed oils like that was once the like signifying issue but the seed oil thing i'm totally i'm totally totally and i get more pushback on this than anywhere but also more engagement like people are you know how crazy elisa's gotten with this sweet little

is it? She says to me, I mean, she's gone down the rabbit hole. No plastics in the house. Well, I mean, there's plastics, but not with our cooking that we heat up. And no seed oils. It's all butter or avocado or olive oil, which I think are much tastier anyway. But then she goes to me. She says, Mack? What? You got to get rid of your right guard deodorant. Because I have, I'm like an old man, so I use the spray aerosol deodorant. Sure. But Mac, you got to get rid of that. It's pure poison. Like, okay, what do I have to do? She goes, I got this deodorant that you got to try. It's made of...

And I kid you not, it's made of grass-fed beef tallow. I was, honestly, I was going to say yak butter, and that wasn't far off. You were not far off. You were too timid. Yeah, yes. Do you know... So I said, how much does this cost? I'm still on my first bottle.

No. And probably my only bottle. I said, how much did you pay for this? Is that what this is... Is that... I've been one... That's what you're... This beautiful musk.

This is aromatic. Sort of natural. Yeah, right. How much did you pay for? How much did I pay for this? She was, I don't want to tell you. What was it? Was it?

Because my right guy is like $3? I said, was it like, was it like $5 or $6? No. 10? No. $22. And I think, do I really want to live that bad? Do I want to live $22?

bad. I don't know. I shave a few years off my life. I save $22. Yeah, yeah. I think that's fine. How much do you care about the ozone layer? Yeah. If I'm in a state of grace, I'll get to go to heaven eventually. A million or two years in purgatory. No, I think this is a million years in purgatory, you know. It's like, this or that. No, I, that is that is, that is, that is hilarious. And the question is not, are our foods killing us? The question, as you say, is how much are we willing, how much we really didn't do about it? No, I remember when this was a crunchy granola lib thing. Now it's like a totally hardwing white nationalists. Anti-Vax used to be a crunchy granola lib thing. Yes. Now it's a total preserve.

Right. It just depends on my biggest conspiracy theory. I'm going to say this is the first time I'd saying this on camera, but I've said this to a lot of daily wire guys. We, you and I will live to see the day when nicotine is good for you. When the health industry. Your mouth to God's your man. Amen. Amen. Oh, dang. Speaking of conspiracy, this is my, this is my big conspiracy theory. I don't know how to pronounce. I still. I refuse to learn. The fact that you just said that, I bet I could tell you. Do you know what it's going to be? Yes. If it's your, this is your, this is my personal proprietary conspiracy theory. Does it have to do with a certain secretary? It does. It certainly does. Somebody.

knew. First of all, I still don't know and I refuse ever to learn how to pronounce the name that begins this question. Um, Chastin, Buttigieg is, is most likely aware Pete is a deeply closeted straight CIA plant. I mean, duh. Obviously. How could they do it without his conclusion? This is actually your, the first and maybe only time I've heard this is from you. Oh, yeah. Nobody else. This is my, I, I told me. I totally. I'm actually... Buttigieg is not gay. That's the year.

I will almost, this is my theory, I will almost never claim ownership over, if I see an idea that I think maybe somebody got this from my piece, whatever, this is one that I will, I will die on this hill. I invented this,

but I'm sure I'm right. That man is not a homosexual. He's an opportunist. Yes. And he understood that the way the wind was blowing, you could never, as a kind of, you know, Ivy League,

I don't actually know a few times, Probably Ivy League. Harvard wasn't anything? I think he was a Harvard game. Of course. Of course. So Ivy League, yeah, you know, veteran JFK mold lib. Yes.

Once he realized that that was passing away and you had to check an identity box, what's the identity box you can check? Yeah. Easiest. Yes. Mary a man. Now, do you have evidence for your theory other than his best, look. Is the taste?

The evidence? Is it incapacity to match? His ties with his slacks? Like, it's good evidence. Yeah, right. I tell you, you know, because some of the audience might not know, that we're college buddies. That's right. Going back to your freshman year, my school.

So, yeah, when you said we've known each of, been friends for many years. Yes, many, many, many years. And, but because we went to a very liberal elite school, we know a lot of these guys. We do. A lot of these guys, and there's a type. And they're all, they all look like Pete. They all look like Pete. They all kind of, you know, they all just kind of sound like Pete.

And they're all, they're going to go get a job after college because they're really passionate about management consulting. Totally consulting. Consultancy. I just really want to improve efficiency within certain corporate structures. This is it. This is a very good impression. And then he goes and he, you know, he is a military veteran.

Yes. And he did the Ivy League, and he did the corporate consulting. And he's just the perfect political candidate, except... Old Pete is a pretty bland white guy. Yeah. And so you're saying he had to have something. And I don't understand why it's more artificial than any other part of his personality for him to pretend. You know what I mean?

Like all these guys are cooked up in a lab. They, you know, carefully curate, as we know, from rubbing shoulders with them, they carefully curate every aspect of their life, including their disavowal of the curation. Like, including, like, I just, I'm so, like you said, I'm so passionate about, like, you know, synergistic incentivization of, like, spreadsheet. Birth control in Africa, whatever, like, name it. But then they get into power, and they, right, and, like, that pipeline was so clear that he wasn't going to let a little, little thing, like, being a heterosexual. Stop him. Like, look, look, for the right price, you know, I'm whatever sexuality, you know.

I mean, it's like, it's better than, like, castrating himself and being the first trans. lucky Pete he came along five years just in time because let me tell you that gate is closing on white gay men you know it's like that's bad to be part of the established power class exactly so do we know who won I think we both won Spencer

I feel that I won and I think Chin you probably did no I mean just by being here yeah yeah yeah yeah we're right we both did I'm a little ashamed of us because we've gone out many times and many, many, many cigars, many, we only had you had your full drink. I'm a little child here. I only had half of

my money. Well, we were so engaged in you're right. The profundities. You're right, that's true. Spencer, you've already finished yours, chin, chin. Cheers to your health. Yes. We will see you next time on the yes or no game. How many discounts does USAA auto insurance offer? Too many to say here. Multi-vehicle discount. Safe driver discount. New vehicle discount. Storage Discount?

How many discounts will you stack up? Tap the banner or visit usa.com slash auto discounts. Restrictions apply.