The Michael Knowles Show - The Hidden War On Christians | Fr. Kiely & Michael Knowles

Episode Date: February 4, 2024

In an eye-opening episode, Michael Knowles sits down with Fr. Kiely to shed light on a pressing issue often overlooked by mainstream media: 'The Hidden War On Christians Around the World.' This powerful interview delves into the harrowing stories of persecution that millions of Christians face globally, exploring the complexities and the resilience of faith under fire.      Fr. Kiely, a dedicated advocate for persecuted Christians, brings to the forefront the struggles and injustices faced by believers in various corners of the world. From the Middle East to Africa, from Asia to Latin America, this conversation uncovers the trials and tribulations of those who endure oppression for their faith.      Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In our modern culture, people like to play a game of victimhood and oppression and persecution. It seems that everyone has a persecution complex these days. Virtually none of them have ever faced any legitimate persecution or suffering in their lives. There is an objective answer, though, to which groups are more and less persecuted than others, legally, socially, violently. And it is simply a fact borne out by all survey data and all of history. history that Christians are the most persecuted group in the world. Ironically, this is the group that we are told is the least persecuted of all. I'm so pleased to be joined by my friend,

Father Benedict Keeley, the leader of Nazarean.org, N-A-S-A-R-E-A-N-O-R-E-A-N.org. There are some other groups that have different names, I think one of which is led by our friend Glenn Beck. Nazarian.org. Father Kili, you've visited Iraq, something like N-A-R-E-A-N. nine times. And you've written and been very focused on and dedicated shrines to persecuted Christians in the Middle East. Last time we spoke, we talked about what was going on in Armenia. We've talked about what was going on in the Levant. Since I last saw you, I'm sorry to say, there was a terrible attack on Christians on Christmas Day in Nigeria, and yet the media have barely talked about it. Strangely, thank you again, Michael, for having me. Strangely, we're told, and rightly so,

lives matter, but apparently black Christian lives, black Nigerian lives don't matter at all. In the year 2021 to 2022, more than 7,000 Nigerian Christians were martyed, men, women and children. Over Christmas, at least 200 Christians were martyred. Martyred being the operative word, they were murdered because they were Christians, they were murdered in churches, churches burnt down, not covered. in the media at all, if covered, I remember when I was on your show before we spoke about a previous occasion when it's alleged that this happens because of climate change. But it's nothing to do with climate change.

The Christians are being attacked by Islamists, but it's not just Nigeria. It's exponential across Africa, the persecution of Christians. It is almost the epicenter now of Christian persecution, not covered by the media at all, except by you. Thank you very much, and I'm so pleased we have this opportunity, because as people might understand from your accent, you're not originally from Tennessee. It's more, was it Kentucky or Alabama? Perhaps people spoke like this maybe two or three hundred years ago. That's true. It's changed since then. But you go all over the world and, you know, call attention to this.

When did Africa become the epicenter of persecution of Christians? Well, if we want to to be historical, we can go back maybe 17 or 1800 years. We think of the great martyrs of Africa. But no, this has all happened with the rise of Islamic fundamentalism. Over the last 10, 15 years or so, it's been growing and growing, sponsored in the past by Saudi Arabia and the Wahhabists. And ISIS is very large in Africa under different names. We've heard before about the death of ISIS, the defeat of ISIS. The caliphate was defeated in Iraq, but not ISIS. ISIS is very large in Africa, different groups, ISIS in sub-Saharan Africa. They have names like that, and they are sweeping across Africa being armed by different countries. It's very, very, very serious. And it's a threat to actually

the stability of Africa, which is why I would imagine Western governments would be interested. But they seem to be pulling out. In fact, France has just pulled out of, I think, Chad and Mali. The Hungarian government, interestingly enough, is actually sending some troops to Chad and Mali. The Hungarian government is, I always do a little plug for the Hungarians, even though they're not very popular in some. The Hungarian government is the only government in the entire world that has a specific government ministry for persecuted Christians. It's actually called the state secretariat for persecuted Christians, not the state secretariat for diversity or inclusivity or various rights. It's called the state secretariat for persecuted Christians. And they've been working

since 2016, the only government in the world to help persecuted Christians. So I always have to give them a little plug because they're doing such good work. Last time when we spoke about the Nogorno-Karabakh conflict of the Azerbaijanis attacking the Armenian Christians, oldest Christian nation in the world. I discussed it on the show, and I said, I think the United States has some interest here in protecting Armenia from just a pure Realpolitik standpoint, but also from a matter of Christian solidarity.

If we are the world police, if we are the global empire and the undisputed for now hegemon, then we're a Christian nation, and they're a Christian nation, and we ought to have a little bit of solidarity. and I was assailed from all sides for suggesting, one, that America is a Christian nation, and two, that we ought to have solidarity with Christians at all, forget in particular, at all, whatsoever. This strikes me as very, very strange, and I can't quite tell when it began that we would intentionally neglect

our fellow members of the body of Christ, the faith that built the civilization. Christians would believe that, but I fear, unfortunately, I can see why you were assailed, perhaps, in the first instance, because we know that the present administration, this is not being party political, unfortunately, it's a reality. The previous administration, we won't mention the name, but the previous administration was extremely positive towards persecuted Christians, large amounts of help. literally, I know this as a fact, on the day that the present administration took over, for example, a very large amount of money was due to go to Nigeria, Nigeria itself, to help persecuted Christians, that was stopped immediately, all aid, basically, to persecuted Christians across the world. This was a policy decision. I was in Iraq in 2016, 17, right before the election. And one of the, it was almost a joke, we were asking people in the camps, who would you like to be the president of the United States?

And everyone will, Trump, we love Trump. Everyone, we in fact filmed it. And a friend sent it to the president. And they said, because the Biden administration had done nothing. But this president administration, sorry, the Obama administration, this present administration has made a policy decision. apparently. Christians are a non-tolerated group. If they're someone, a poor individual, transsexual that had a bad hair day in Kazakhstan, there would have been probably a debate at the United Nations. You'd have a whole delegation. Money would flow in. But, no, thousands and thousands.

But also, sadly, we are talking about real politic. You talk about Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan has oil. Nigeria has vast amounts of oil. When you're dealing with trade, trade and aid, I always say we can make a difference if we actually bring up trade and aid in terms of helping people who are being persecuted. If governments had some moral strength, some moral probity, intestinal fortitude, perhaps, Christian intestinal fortitude, they would say, and tell you, if you stop persecuting Christians, then we will trade with you. If not, but that's never part of it. the deal. If you have nothing, I suppose, then maybe they can do some work with them, but these places have oil. That's one of the big thing. I have no problem in principle with the

United States being involved around the world. In fact, it seems to me that great nations always are involved around the world, and even mid-size and not-so-great nations are involved around the world because man is a social creature. But there are a lot of conservatives who say, enough. We're funding the whole world. We're rich uncle penny bags here, and we don't really know what our interests are. And it's ridiculous, and we want to just focus on the home front. And I wonder how much of that is because foreign aid and even wars of intervention today are focused on raising a pride flag in Kandahar, which I have no interest in doing. I don't want my tax dollars to do it. I don't want a single U.S. soldier to be put in harm's way for that dubious goal. If, however,

we're discussing real questions of American interest, Western interest, and solidarity with our fellow Christians around the world. That would seem like the sort of involvement that would interest many, many more Americans who are skeptical of American intervention. We're looking at what the great Cardinal Sirrah from Africa called a new form of colonialism, that the Western ideology, the LGBTQ, multiple letters, ideology is being pushed on Africa. Aid will only come if they, and they say we don't want this. This is a new form of colonialism. Again, it's also not necessarily about putting troops.

I can understand that. Putting troops on the ground caused half this problem back in 2003, certainly for the Middle East and in other places. But it is, well, either, back to your earlier question, either America. is a Christian nation or not, if, though, sadly, it appears that more and more people, especially younger people in the West, are beginning to hate their own heritage, then they're not going to be supporting this. And let's be honest, Michael, a lot of people see the church as the enemy, ultimately, because of issues like human sexuality. We are, we are bigots. So why support bigots in another country? Why help them? They probably deserve it. I was actually told. I was told

by a journalist from a very senior organization that Christians deserved what they were getting in these countries. It was quite an extraordinary moment to be told that. That's what we're dealing with. We're dealing with that kind of ideology that's not just in the media, but as we know, is in academia and in government. You mentioned Cardinal Sarah, who many American and Western conservative Catholics just adore. And he is certainly more conservative than other bishops and cardinals these days, and a wonderful defender of the faith. He wrote a book with the late Pope Benedict the 16th, and anyway, he's just a great guy.

I can't help but notice that even as the European and many American bishops seem to embrace or accidentally embrace, just all sorts of crazy things, modern sexuality and the global warming stuff and mass migration, and things that really have no place in the Catholic tradition. It is the African bishops and the African cardinals who are standing up against that. How did we come to that situation? Well, the family is still intact in Africa. I think this is where, if you want to get down to the essentials,

we know in the West, the attack on the family has been, that's almost the epicenter of the ideology. And as the family has been destroyed and alternative visions of the family, have been created. But in Africa, the family and the wider family is still very strong. And so a seeming attack blessed by the church on the family and the institution of the family is being resisted. And we have to say God bless them, because maybe they will be the saviors of Western Christianity in the end. We know in America and in Europe, we have many priests now from Africa,

and they were so, it's because, well, we brought the gospel to them, so they brought the gospel back to us. But no, actually, obviously they're coming because we haven't got enough priests, but they usually preach with some force and some vigor, and usually they can't be attacked because of their skin color, which is rather helpful. So, no, God bless the Africans.

I'm very encouraged by what's been happening. I read some really depressing statistics the other day on not just how modern people think about the family and sexuality and everything you just mentioned, but how Catholics view it. Most American Catholics support contraception. Most American Catholics support so-called same-sex marriage. Most American Catholics reject the perennial teaching of the Catholic Church on matters that get to the very core of the human person and the fundamental political institution. and not even small numbers. We're talking like 69%, 89%, in some cases, support these things. One, how do you reconcile that apparent contradiction? And two, is there any hope to do anything about it?

Most American Catholics are not well-catechized, as are most English Catholics, as our most European. I'm 60 years old. My generation, before me, down now, three generations, Pope Benedict himself said, have not, were not catechized. So it's no surprise. Is there hope? Yes, I think there's great hope because the younger generation, certainly, especially in the United States, coming out of some of these great Catholic colleges, Steubenville, Christendom,

Avamiria, are producing really wonderful young people who love the church for all its faults, who want to have marriages, want to have lots of children. It's a great hope. We just have to go through the winter of discontent, as we might say, and a rather aging clergy who still think that flared trousers are the latest rage. Once they depart, then we younger priests are tending to be more. I don't like the use of the word conservative or political. I use heterodox or orthodox. Orthodox priests

who believe in the teaching of the church and happy, being happy Catholics, not happy, clapy Catholics, happy Catholics who love the faith. We're in a very hard time, and you know as a layman, I know as a priest, it's an extremely hard time when the leadership of the church, I'm reminded of Belloc's quote about imbecilic knaves, but... No merely human institution conducted with such knavish imbecility would have lasted a fort. Exactly, and there are a few of them around at the moment. And we have to get through this, but we have to hold on and be happy and love our faith and be joyful. And I think there's great hope.

But at the moment, the ship is, I think of a friend of mine who was received into the church last year, and I preached at her reception, quoting Cardinal Newman, St. John Henry Newman, who said when he became a Catholic that he felt like he was a ship coming into port after a heavy storm. And I said to her, you're going out of the port into the storm now, becoming a Catholic. So it's rather exciting, actually, that people are still becoming Catholic when you think, what on earth are you doing that for? You know, I see it, especially among young people, a lot of people returning to religion in any form, and specifically to Christianity and specifically to Catholicism. And you're seeing a vibrant intellectual movement. It's wonderful.

And yet, the people who run the society seem to be moving in the other direction. You're seeing a big push to persecute Christians, violently in some cases, just legally, you know, in the United States and Canada, America's evil top hat. And you're seeing a push to break up the family and to question what a human person is and to meld us with robots and to live forever. And this is what's so strange about it is the way that they speak, they sound like they're seeking religious goals. When they say man is going to cease to be homo sapiens, he's going to be homo dao. we're going to cure death, we're going to live forever, we're going to be immortal, we're going to have fame, our legacy will live on.

And these are people who don't get married, don't have children, don't, you know. They have dogs, they do have dogs. Two of them even. That's right, sometimes in a stroller and a carrier. They love that. But I think, well, the easiest way for you to have a legacy and to have immortality, the easiest way to have immortality

is to know God and love him. You know, God sent his only begotten son so that whoever believes in it might not perish but have everlasting life. That's a good way to do it. And the easiest way to have a legacy is to have children and have a lot of them. And then you have a living legacy. And the very thing that would give them what they seek, they do the opposite of. I remember reading an interview with the, I'm pushing Hungary again, but the president of Hungary, Catalina Novak is a wonderful woman.

Hungary has a great policy of helping families now, no income tax after three children. Imagine if a politician here ran with that. You won't pay income tax if you have more than three children. Sign me up. But President Novak said at one point last year, because people are saying, oh, don't have children for the environment. And she said, well, who's it for then? In 100 years, is it for the apes or the ants or something?

It's for our children. But actually, you hit, to be more serious, though, you hit something essential. We are, and I think we have to use the word, I read a marvelous article recently by a man called Mark Dooley, who is a philosopher. He actually is the great expert on Sir Roger Scruton. He wrote a piece in the European Conservative last fall, basically saying, we talk about a culture war.

He said, that implies there are two cultures. He said, and I think it's really profound, he said, no, there are not two cultures. There's one culture, the culture of the West, a culture from a cultus worship. He said it's about good and evil. and we've got to actually draw this conclusion and speak the truth in love. It's about good and evil.

It's not calling the people themselves evil, but the philosophy that's being promoted, you were talking about melding humans and machines, the attack on the personhood, the attack on children, that you can be whatever you want to be. No, you can't be. He actually said it's a sort of reverse of being all things in Christ. You can create yourself, the attack on children,

the sexualization. of children, the attack on the family, he said, we must call it what it is. This is evil. And I know people will respond sometimes with horror. How can you Christians say that? But no, it's a fight now. It's really, we spoke before about picking a side. Actually, we've really got to be on one side or the other, and it's a battle. St. Paul spoke about it. It's about spiritual realities, powers and principalities. And evil is very active in the world today. So we better be armed with, as scripture says, all the weapons of faith. I love the idea of picking aside because if you stand in the middle of the road, you will be hit by a truck.

Well, the sitting on the fence is also rather uncomfortable. It is. You're right. Father Keeley, thank you so much, as always, for coming in. And I look forward to the next time that we can drag you back from that island over there to Tennessee. Thank you, Michael. This episode is brought to you by Nespresso. Being the best version of yourself is an everyday journey, and it begins in the morning by taking a moment to ground yourself. With the new Nespresso Virtual Up coffee machine,

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