The Mind Over Finger Podcast - 006 Matthew Lipman: How Learning to Listen Well Lead Him to Great Heights & How he Prepares for Competitions and Performances

Starting point is 00:00:00 You're listening to the Mind Over Finger Podcast, episode number six. Welcome to the Mind Over Finger Podcast, discussions on mindful music making, efficient practice, and building a purposeful career. And now your host, Dr. Renée Paul Gaultier. Hi everyone! Today I have a great conversation with international viola soloist Matthew Lipman. Recipient of a prestigious 2015 Avery Fisher Career Grant, Matthew has been hailed by the New York Times for his rich tone and elegant phrasing, and by the Chicago Tribune for his splendid technique and musical sensitivity. In demand as a soloist, he plays with orchestras

Starting point is 00:00:53 across the country and performs internationally as a chamber musician with the Chamber Music Society of Lincoln Center and with distinguished artists like Itzhak Perlman, Mitsuka Uchida, and Pinkie Zuckerman. A top prize winner of the Primrose, Tardis, Washington, Johansson, and Stuhlberg International Violin Competitions, Matthew received his bachelor's and master's degrees as an inaugural Kovner Fellow from the Juilliard School, where he continues to serve as teaching assistant to Heidi Kesselman. Highlights this season include a world premiere by Brazilian composer Clarice Assad, several performances of the Telemann Viola Concerto in Alice Tully Hall, and his very own debut solo album on CD Records, which is set to be released

Starting point is 00:01:39 on February 8, 2019, and will include his own transcription of Waksman's Carmen Fantasy, and the world premiere recording of a newly discovered miniature by Shostakovich titled Impromptu that was found only last year in the Moscow State Archive. Keep your ears and eyes open for the release of the first single from Matthew's solo album, which will come out next week on October 19th, 2018. In the episode, Matthew and I discuss several aspects of performance preparation, from the planning to the mental work necessary, as well as the importance to learn to better listen to ourselves and how that can transform

Starting point is 00:02:19 our playing. Matthew dishes out tons of great information. So have a pen and paper ready and let's go to the show. Matthew Lipman, it's so great to have you here today. thanks so much for having me it's very exciting i have loved following your musical adventures for the past few years on instagram and social media and i'm so happy we have the chance to chat for a little bit thank you so much absolutely so for someone as young as you are you have a super impressive profile already you perform as a soloist with major orchestras and you play recital and chamber music concerts with highly recognized musicians and some of the best halls around the world. Can you tell us a little bit more about your journey, you know, how you got

Starting point is 00:03:15 started and the road that got you where you are? Oh, sure. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of all just snuck up on me. In fact, you know, I never intended to be, I mean, when you say it like you did, you know, big halls and nice collaborators, it sounds impressive, but I never really thought that I would be doing this. I started viola kind of by accident in public school in the fourth grade. And at the time, I didn't really have a lot of friends in school, and I wasn't behaving so well. And the viola became very quickly kind of my outlet to get all of, I guess, frustration out. And I fell in love with it so quickly. I actually remember thinking after one week of having the little rental at home that I wanted to become a musician. All it took was like

Starting point is 00:04:07 plucking open strings for me. And I was like, this is what I want to do. And so I just became like a huge nerd. I studied with this wonderful violist in the southern suburbs, Matthew Mantel, who I think you know pretty well. And he just was able to kind of put me in the right direction. I guess I was pretty precocious and he kind of just steered me the right way. And then for the last three years of high school, I studied with Roland Vamos, who was the professor, viola professor at Northwestern University. And that was really, that was really key in my development, I think, as well, because I mean, his list of students goes on and on and on.

Starting point is 00:04:50 And so the experience that he has teaching at the highest level really affected me deeply because all of a sudden, all of my attention was being directed in the right kind of ways. I mean, you know, I would show up to lessons, he would have assigned me, say, a Paganini Caprice or a difficult etude or something on the viola, and I would show up and be like, I cannot, I don't know how to play this, I can't do it. And he, you know, not in any sort of mean way, he was like, actually, yeah, you can do it. And he kind of just made me strive for the ceiling.

Starting point is 00:05:22 So that was really crucial. And I think in my development, and he also emphasized this kind of like amazing old school kind of juicy sound, which I think has stayed in my ear all these years. So I'm very grateful for him as well. And then I went to Juilliard and studied with Heidi Castleman, who actually is like my best friend now. i always tell people that she's like basically buddha she's uh she's like the i don't even know how to start i mean i guess viola wise she really emphasized having dimension in the sound playing in a um in a free way so if by the end of high school with mr vamos i was kind of i think i was playing very kind of tight and you know fast vibrato all the time and all of these things she was really able to help me relax and be free musically and also the way that she teaches the bow arm is like second to none i think um i mean basically for four years of undergrad all she did

Starting point is 00:06:31 was talk about my bow arm because i i didn't really know how to use the bow at all before and actually after college I decided to see if I could take some lessons with my hero of the viola in Germany, Tabea Zimmerman. So actually I'm still kind of flying over Once in a Blue Moon if I have a recital or a concerto or something like that. I played that for Tabea and let's see, where am I now? Okay, so after all this teaching, Tabea has been amazing for me because she, it's basically not really teaching at this point. It's more like a mentorship. And she is kind of like, okay, this, you could sound better, you could be more free. And she kind of just like all of the teaching that I had until this point, it's all kind of coming to a point with her,

Starting point is 00:07:21 because she's not trying to change me. She's just trying to help me get better. And she's also very picky. I think the first lesson I ever had with her, she was like, every note you play is slightly out of tune and I was like oh my god you're so mean but she was like so right and what she meant wasn't that I was messing up all over the place it's just that the listening could be fine-tuned even that much more um and the intention behind every note at least that's what I took away from it because that's how she plays herself in yeah so that's that's my my background my uh pedagogical background. And I feel very, very lucky for this path. It's so great. I love how, you know, this combination of teachers and guides that you mentioned, how it really leads to the performer

Starting point is 00:08:10 that you are today. All these, you know, when you mentioned Mr. Vamus directing your attention in the right way and, you know, working on this flowing bow arm with Heidi Kesselman and, you know, this mentorship with Tabea Zimmerman. It's really great to see how it really combines into having you becoming the player that you are which is not a copy of any of these people but a truly unique artist you know what i mean yeah yeah and i i feel i feel very lucky to have had support in in that exact way that there's there's no copying it's it's all just you know encouraging so um that's also what i try to do in my own teaching now but that's a different story I remember going in a lesson with Spies Eitlen at Eastman. This was maybe a couple months into my master's degree and complaining to him how I felt like I was sounding worse and worse. And he was telling me how, actually, it was me who was starting to listen better and better.

Starting point is 00:09:12 That's very true, actually. I would agree with what you said about the importance of really listening intently to ourselves. Actually, I never studied with Kim Kashkashian officially, but I took a few lessons with her at Ravinia Staines Institute like five or six years ago. And one thing that really stuck with me that she said about growth is that it's not a linear line. It's actually plateaus. So when you are experiencing growth, you think that you sound horrible and then you kind of reach a new level and then you're happy. But that just means that you're not actually growing. And it's OK because it's, you know, it is supposed to be plateaued. But if you're not happy with how you're sounding, chances are you're actually getting better. So thanks for sharing that.

Starting point is 00:10:01 I think it's so important for musicians, you know, especially young musicians that might be tempted to get comfortable in the zone where they are happy. It's very important to hear. Can we dig a little bit more into the nitty gritty of practicing? You know, as you said earlier, you started in fourth grade, which is sometimes considered a bit late. And by the way, I think this speaks to the importance of having music education in the schools. I feel that we are very struggling right now with convincing our politicians to, you know, spend some money on music educations, but you can really see how music, first of all, we know all of the studies about how it really influences your cognitive abilities and can help with problem solving things such as math and science and other things. But seeing how it gave you a purpose and I feel like it brings people together and really has so many ramifications in our lives as a society. I think that we really must make an effort to maybe encourage politicians to keep in mind how music education is important in the schools for sure.

Starting point is 00:11:12 But I'll get off my soapbox right now. I totally agree. No, I mean, I think I think you're totally right. And it's not just for the people like me who become musicians, it's, you know, a lot of people that I know who actually didn't wind up becoming musicians, their lives are so much more enriched because they played music, most of them going to great schools for college and having great jobs now and, you know, and being multidimensional people. And I think the music lessons early on are a good reason for all of that. Yeah. Can we talk a little bit more about, you know, how it is that you went from fourth grade beginner to a Lincoln Center regular in such a short amount of time? We've touched about a few of those things and what you were referring to and, you know, the teachings of Mr. Mantel and Mr. Vemos and Heidi Kesselman. but what are the practicing skills that you feel were really key in your rapid development?

Starting point is 00:12:16 Well, that's tough because I didn't really know how to practice. I'm kind of an example of somebody who, for whatever reason, got really good really quickly. And then I spent a lot of years trying to figure out after I got good, what the heck I was doing. So I think by the time I was 12 years old. So in like two and a half years, I was principal viola of Chicago Youth Symphony Orchestra. And like, I literally did not know at all how this happened. And, you know, if you asked me to play a scale, I wouldn't be able to these kinds of things. It's like, I shouldn't have sounded as good as I did based on my knowledge of practicing or technique. So I think when I really started to understand, especially left hand technique was when I got to Mr. Vamos,

Starting point is 00:13:07 you know just how to put the left hand down what kind of motion you want to grab the string with what kind of sound you want to listen for but I actually wound up having some pretty severe tendonitis in high school also because I think when you when you progress rapidly your muscles actually don't have time to figure out exactly what to do you know you're kind of doing something with your body that you don't have muscle musculature to support so a lot of the first year of my maybe first two years of my studies at Juilliard we're also trying to figure out how to play without tension and I mean it worked eventually but it's it's kind of a weird it can get pretty psychological because you know if if you are kind of progressing in a in a rapid way

Starting point is 00:13:55 and expecting that the sky is the limit then all of a sudden your arms are holding you back it's it's kind of it can you can get inside your head trying to figure out what went wrong so to speak but yeah ultimately I really think it's about in regards to having an injury it's actually not about taking time off I think it's actually about being more consistent and for me what helped the most and this is what Heidi helped me with is that I wasn't getting anywhere when people told me you know relax your arm or don't press this finger or whatever that wasn't working it was all about listening to the sound, actually, and what kind of dimension you can gain in the sound without being tense in your arms. And once I started to be able to hear that, then immediately,

Starting point is 00:14:46 my arm problems went away. And, you know, it's much better to practice, I think, maybe 30 minutes a day if you're injured slowly than it is to take a week off and then try to practice again for two three four hours because you just really need to retrain your muscles and in addition to this there's the fact that when you're in your teenage years you're growing and you know the body is changing so that can add to the injury factor but I really loved what you just said about really listening to the sound and you know the I loved how you put it that you're listening for it how much dimension you can gain in the sound. I feel that so often it's easy to take what the teacher says and go home and try to apply it without really understanding it at a deeper

Starting point is 00:15:38 level. And what you talk about sounds to me like you really took the time to understand for yourself how things worked in your own body. So definitely something to aspire for. Yeah, absolutely. And I do think that this, I was forced to go home and try to understand it. Actually, when I first met Heidi in, I think I was like 15 years old in the Perlman Music Program in the summer, studying with the Vemos, or actually just Mr. Vemos, I didn't actually understand what the heck she was trying to get me to do for a long time. I mean, this was the kind of like focused, you know, path that I was on. I want to go be louder and faster and, you know, play more difficult repertoire and win this competition. And which definitely has a lot of value, especially when you're progressing as a teenager. But yeah, the dimension and the sound thing, I mean, that was huge. And there were a few other factors besides just the injury. I think playing the viola in general is the way that the instrument speaks because of its proportions. I mean, the viola should be basically 22 inches, the body of the viola should be 22 inches long based on its, you know, proportion to the pitch, you know, in between a violin and cello. but obviously that would make it too big to play. So just the instrument already starts off at a disadvantage. And because of the way it speaks, the slow nature,

Starting point is 00:17:08 it actually does require this kind of balanced technical approach rather than pressing or philosophically, the instrument itself doesn't really work when you try to go faster and louder. You kind of have to take a step back and really understand the body and the way that the the string vibrates anyway and on top of that when i was 18 i was loaned this amazing go friller viola that i actually still play on from rachel barton pines foundation and i mean for like probably three years the first three years i had

Starting point is 00:17:48 it it just really sounded horrible it's one of these old and like i think a lot of people talk about strads being like amazing only if you know how to play it and that they're really difficult to play and that you have to play in the way that they want, not you. I would say this was for sure the case with my viola. And it's a, I think it's because the arching is so high on it that if you, if you try to play it in a pressed way, you just, you just really get this like croaked sound i mean it just really doesn't sound great good so it was like a combination of me trying to not play with pain trying to figure out how the go thriller worked and also becoming addicted to this resonant sound with lots of overtones so i yeah i don't know i'm kind of

Starting point is 00:18:40 just blabbering but that's no this is that made any sense it makes so much sense i love you know this emphasis you talk about into searching for this sound and it's so true for string instruments for sure how we we try to produce and then we actually end up choking the sound and I think that applies for a lot of instruments as well even on the piano there's so many more colors you can go when you know how to get the amplitude without the sheer force you know but right you know you mentioned competition a couple minutes ago and i'd like to speak more about this a little bit because you've participated and won several international competitions you know the primrose tortoise washington johansson and

Starting point is 00:19:29 stuhlberg international viola competitions you know can we talk a little bit how they've helped shape your path and after that i'd like to talk a little bit more about the process of preparing for these competition, but how do you feel participating and entering these competitions shape your path? Oh, it's, it's hard. It's hard. You know, if I think about having to do a competition now, I think I, I don't think I would like it very much. So just to start off, I think you have to really be in the right mindset and the right time in your life. And that might be different for everyone. You know, I was actively doing competitions, I think from maybe age 16 until like 21. So pretty, pretty early in terms of the international ones. But those were

Starting point is 00:20:24 my biggest source of inspiration. I mean, they really got me to, you know, they really got me into the practice room. And I think it started out more as like a, you know, I keep mentioning this Vamo style, you know, faster, louder, higher. And I just kind of wanted to do them to maybe kind of prove myself or, I don't know, you know, take over the competition scene or whatever but um then it became so much more about the process which is what you were mentioning and you know i uh i didn't actually win first place in promos or tortoise i i got to the finals both time but never first place and i was really kind of heartbroken when i you know i did promos i was 18 and i was like i have to win it and blah blah and i i didn't win first and then i sort of was

Starting point is 00:21:22 like you know what that's that's okay actually because I I don't think I was playing at a level where I deserve to win honestly um I you know and but that helped that helped me get to that level you know it's it's kind of like you get better after you lose because hindsight's 2020 you know it's like yes yeah and uh yeah I don't know it's it's a great I think they're a great experience, you know, especially if you're in school, and maybe you only have one or two times a year to perform in public. It's, I mean, it's nerve wracking, for sure. But it's a good excuse to work for something and go out there and do it. So I think they can be vital. But of course, only if you're in the right mindset. Now, I, you know, if I, I, it's been so

Starting point is 00:22:14 long since I compared my playing to somebody else's and I think I would probably like just like crack under the pressure of doing that but you know I was younger I was a little more fearless so yes I I agree with you on that for sure and how is that process of preparing what what does it look like when you're practicing and you're preparing for a competition an international competition that usually end up having entire recitals entire concerti you know um how how was that for you how would you practice to prepare for a competition sure um well actually my other teacher in undergrad um misha amory he was i kind of took lessons with him i would say a third of the time along with heidi um he was really helpful in shaping um that that how to prepare

Starting point is 00:23:05 and one thing that stuck with me in terms of competitions that he said is always play to your strengths you know sometimes people choose really hard repertoire or something that they think will impress the judges but if it's if it's not something that lets you shine then I would shy away from it and that's just in terms of kind of the strategy behind the competition but basically what you want to do is you want to play things you know and that you know you're good at and play them through a lot before so never play something for the first time in in a competition right preparing for the primrose i remember i played the repertoire in studio class multiple times in school before going and that's that's crucial and in terms of the actual practicing

Starting point is 00:23:58 I used to like make little charts and lists and time limits for practicing which I did adhere to so I would say okay back when I practiced six hours a day or whatever and preparing for primrose for example you know Paganini La Campanella would be an hour and I'd focus on playing this trill section in tune and with resonance and or these thirds trying to work them up to speed very specific goals kind of like something that you can check off the box nowadays that doesn't work for me I don't I don't have as much time to practice but having specific goals is still a crucial part at least for me in in my practicing even if you have 15 minutes before a show and you're like oh my gosh, I need to fix this one section. If you have a plan, a technical plan and a musical plan

Starting point is 00:24:58 before you even pick up the instrument, you can accomplish so much in so little time rather than just kind of mindlessly repeating for hours and hours. And actually nowadays, I would say I spend more time practicing scales than I do. Well, that's not true. If I have a solo performance, I obviously do practice the repertoire. But, you know, in terms of just kind of like everyday practicing, I actually mostly practice scales. And I try to create little exercises, like double stop exercises, based on how I'm feeling that day. So if I'm like, wow, the performance last night, my fifths were so out of tune, then I'll just practice a fifth scale, you know, and focus on making the intervals ring in a kind way. You know, you have to be kind to yourself. I never

Starting point is 00:25:51 got better when I was like, oh, this is out of tune. I'm so horrible. How do I fix this? It's kind of just allowing yourself the space to figure it out. And I've always found that that's much more helpful but yeah in terms of preparing for the actual competitions i used to uh be pretty intense about the goals and checking off the hours practice and stuff like that so i might have to play that last bit to my students before every lesson you know i agree with you so much you know i i've said this before but i find that when we're students we have this luxury of time you can work on the same concerto for a whole semester but once you enter the professional life we we learn so much faster out of necessity but it is because we become very much goal-oriented

Starting point is 00:26:41 and we really trigger these problem-solving skills that we all acquire throughout the years you know and the other thing you said which i love so much is becoming a big topic of discussion in my studio for the past year or so is this creativity that you mentioned, you know, playing a fifth scale, for example. I agree with you so much. I feel that stimulating our creativity into shaping new exercises like this, it keeps things so much more interesting and much more fun in the practice room. And I know that I've been doing that too, especially in the last year, because there comes to a point where like you we spend I think more time practicing skills and technical things to stay in shape and it makes it so much more fun when we you know challenge ourselves with coming

Starting point is 00:27:33 up with new exercises like this and you know the third thing you mentioned which I also think is more and more important nowadays and I see it with my student is being kind to yourself creating this powerful and empowering in their dialogue instead of just you know you miss this shift therefore you know nothing and are probably the worst human being that ever existed you know i totally totally agree with you thank you so much i i might have to send you a check no not at all actually something that you just said reminded me i i want to just talk for a second because we're talking about practicing about metronomes i feel like i finally learned how to use a metronome, maybe within the last year or two, I used to hate practicing with them

Starting point is 00:28:22 because I felt, I felt they were so confining. Um, and you know, if, if you approach a metronome from the angle that I have to be together with it, it's, I think that that's, I think that that's wrong. I think that you're actually going to wind up being more tense. Um, but what I've sort of discovered, and actually I think Tabea helped me with this, is that the beat of the metronome is not something to stay together with. It's something to internalize, by which I mean you should be able to be as free as possible around the metronome and still be able to line up with it. And what I think this means technically isn't that we're, you know, training ourselves to go through motions in a metronomic rhythmic way. But I think what it

Starting point is 00:29:26 means is that we're fine tuning technical processes to land wherever we want them to, to be so precise with maybe a string crossing for example or a shift it's not like we're training our bodies to do it one two three four but it's rather to have the freedom in a shift or a string crossing or whatever to be able to land anywhere whenever you want because then when you turn off the metronome your technique is so is so precise and so relaxed that you don't worry about missing the shift because you know you can just land anywhere you want you know what i'm saying and so sometimes i actually practice with the metronome on the off beats because that's even it's it's really difficult but it helps you internalize the pulse rather than trying to

Starting point is 00:30:18 line up with the metronome so that's my metronome that's so good i love it and again practicing with the metronome on the offbeat is a very creative and challenging way you know thanks so much for sharing have you do you have any more of those really great tips oh um i don't know maybe i'll think i'll think about it that sounds great you know you have a very busy performance schedule as you mentioned earlier and i was wondering about i know that performing is also a training in itself so i i don't know if i can guess that by now you are um anticipate performances with maybe less anxiety that you did as a young performer. But how was it for you when you first started on the scene and getting these great concert? How would you prepare mentally

Starting point is 00:31:10 for these concerts? I'm glad you asked because this is also a huge learning process. There's a huge learning curve. I started performing with the Chamber Music Society of Lincoln Center about four years ago and i started because i i did win the cms2 audition when i was an undergrad but what happens is that you don't actually start performing with them until almost two years after the audition because they have to plan their seasons and whatever but the first time i played with them was when lauren's power this kind of actually the name is fitting powerhouse british violist um was scheduled to play Trout Quintet with Gary Hoffman and Ani Kavafian and Enon Barnett and these huge names in Tully and he got sick last minute and so I had to fill in

Starting point is 00:32:01 on a moment's notice never having played the piece and that was like my start to the whole thing so I mean talk about pressure I was like freaking out and I remember I mean it's not even like a you know it's it's a Schubert viola part it's not like it's Bartok concerto but I remember practicing so much in like the two days I had that um the calluses on my fingers like split open and I was like oh my god this is probably too much but um okay what's the point of this the point is that despite the stress of a big performance I think mentally preparing is extremely valuable and kind of being able to put yourself in the hall before you actually walk out walk out on stage and this is something that you gain from experience now I actually look forward

Starting point is 00:32:53 to bigger halls and more kind of nerve-wracking experiences because I find them to be incredibly, incredibly useful to progression mentally. So for example, last year, when I played with the Minnesota Orchestra, the Mozart Sinfonia Concertante, I know that that hall is huge. And I knew that this was a big deal, but it's a piece that I knew. And as I was preparing for it, I kind of just thought about what it feels like on a stage like that and what it sounds like to hear yourself in a big resonant hall. And that actually shapes your preparation a lot. The way that you listen to yourself is completely different if you're in a practice room versus if you're actually in a hall or imagining yourself to be in a hall. And I find

Starting point is 00:33:54 that a lot of technical challenges are actually just fixed if you can zoom out in that kind of listening. It's kind of a cool phenomenon. I mean, if you listen to yourself from the back of the hall, your vibrato automatically goes into the right kind of oscillation and depth because that's what's required to project, right? You need to get the note to ring. And versus in a practice room you can't tell what you're doing because there's no resonance there's there's nothing to listen to from this perspective so and a lot of a lot of that is about body balance as well physical relaxation if you're if you're playing a big concert and you're tense then it doesn't you're not able to listen in that kind of way so but that like like you said it's all

Starting point is 00:34:44 about the experience um it probably took a year or two of playing in alice tully before i felt like i could actually do that you know look forward to hearing my sound in tully rather than dreading if i was good enough you know or wondering if i was good enough and kind of dreading the anxiety aspect of it and by the way i watched the youtube video of that performance of the symphony concertant with it's aaron keith in the minnesota and everybody should listen to that it's so great it's terrific and you know you talked about how you know the body tension you look like you were having so much fun and you felt, you know, it looks as though you felt very comfortable. I highly recommend it. You know, when you talk about this thing, such as the vibrato

Starting point is 00:35:30 going to the back of the hall, it requires such a high level of awareness. You know, this is really something that if I could, if I could give anything to my students, I think it would be this, how to develop this awareness. And it comes through, I mean, would you agree? It comes through listening it comes through tuning into what your body is doing how how would you you know how would you go about telling a student to start developing this awareness what are some ways that you think we can start to experiment and develop this really important awareness and playing sure well a word that you said a while ago in the interview is context and it's it's a hard it's it's a hard thing to to be able to zoom out um and be objective about your playing but i

Starting point is 00:36:20 think it's really important to be as picky as possible with yourself and minute about all of your technical challenges but i think it's key to be able to do the opposite and zoom out and say okay what's the goal what do i actually want to sound like right now or how do i see myself performing this piece that i would say that is key because then you automatically approach your playing from multiple angles you have a clarity of vision yeah right yeah exactly matthew i could keep you here all day but i'm sure you have plenty of things to do but um how about a round of rapid fire questions before we say goodbye sure and i know they're hard to answer you know shortly but we'll do the best i'll try so for the people who are dreaming

Starting point is 00:37:15 of becoming a concert violist like you can you tell us a little bit about what your life looks like oh sure i'm always on a plane let's see i uh i just arrived home yesterday september 3rd after not having been in my apartment since May 25th. And I was lugging around a 72 pound suitcase all summer. I actually love traveling. But that's one thing that I would say to keep in mind if you're an aspiring concert musician is that you will always be on a plane. And you need a good suitcase. Yeah, or a few. And how about a performance that has stayed with you throughout the years? Oh, well, there have been so many for many different reasons. Obviously, the one I mentioned before, the Minnesota Orchestra, was pivotal for me. It was my first major orchestra

Starting point is 00:38:08 performance. And like you said, I actually had fun. But another one that sticks out is one that I just did last May with the violinist Augustine Hadliff, cellist Clive Greensmith, and pianist Enon Barneton of Foray Quartet. I think it's incredibly, incredibly inspiring to play chamber music with musicians who are not only one of the best at their craft, I mean, especially Augustin, I mean, like, I've admired this guy's violin playing for so long, and to be two feet away from him and hearing him through the process is so inspiring. But they're so humble, all three of them and it was one of the most magical experiences because it was 100% about foray it was not about our egos or trying to one-up anyone it was all about the music and because of that combination

Starting point is 00:39:05 of like amazing players and humility I just it was probably my favorite performance ever actually so those are these these are the performances you kind of look forward to as a professional when everything just kind of gels and you're all on the same page and it was it was absolutely right i mean that's kind of what i think we envision as young kids when we think of becoming musicians or those kind of experiences so what um you we've mentioned a lot but what skills do you think young musicians studying today should acquire in addition to learning to play their instruments oh that's a good one um other than carrying suitcases right clarity of vision like you put it is is important but to remember that once you have a clear vision no matter how much

Starting point is 00:39:53 you want to accomplish something ultimately it's it at least I find it helps to make it not about you to make it about music and about collaboration I'm not so sure how things worked 50 years ago but I think they worked differently than they do now and and that you could sort of be a recluse and be a great player and make it and do what you want and didn't matter how well you worked with others but in in every field i think in in this generation it's your collaboration is is such a huge part of the way things work now so to be open and be able to put yourself in somebody else's shoes and to appreciate their point of view even if you disagree with it is is really key that's So good. So good. How about a favorite tool in the practice room?

Starting point is 00:40:48 Well, offbeat metronome as of lately. Let's see. What else? That's it. I don't know. That's a good one. That's a good one. And how about a favorite book that you would recommend the listeners? Oh, geez. Admittedly, I don't read as much as I should. I just finished Truman compote in cold blood but that's not a music oh it could be any book well the primrose book is is one that's really inspiring that series of interviews by david dalton that i got a while ago of course for violists and actually speaking of primrose another book i just got i stumbled across this this is not a book but it's a little picture book and you know details about primrose's Guarneri Viola. And a friend of mine gave that to me because he knows I'm obsessed with

Starting point is 00:41:37 Guarneri Violas. And so that was really cool. So I would say, but that's not a book. That's not a book. How about a piece of advice that you've received and that you'd like to transmit to our listeners? I would say it sounds cliche, but stay true to yourself. There will always be lots of challenges, especially when you're younger and people who are in positions of power above you have such strong opinions of how things should go and it's it's a really fine line between doing what they want and doing what you believe in but I would say riding that line is extremely important because if you give in and and maybe sacrifice your own ideals then you also lose something about your artistry but at the same

Starting point is 00:42:28 time you have to you can't you can't be it's it's not helpful to anyone to be stubborn so um staying true to yourself but in a um in a generous way thank you for that this is great and do you have an actionable tip that the listeners could implement today in their musical lives oh sure yeah we didn't talk about this but listening to resonance between intervals this is huge It helps with intonation so much. I mean, if you're kind of trying to play a note in tune, just lining it up with the tuner, it's never going to work. You have to think about the resonance between intervals all the time. Even if you're playing a Bach fugue and you have a string crossing from the lowest string to the highest string, that interval should ring together.

Starting point is 00:43:19 So that's huge. I really emphasize that a lot in my own playing with my students. Matthew, what does the next season have in store for you? Where can we expect to see you? Oh, sure. Well, on November 29th, I'm making my Lincoln Center recital debut with pianist Henry Kramer. And it will be live streamed online at the Chamber Music Society's online portal. And there'll be a newly commissioned work by this wonderful Brazilian composer Clarice

Starting point is 00:43:52 Assad and also my rendition of Carmen Fantasy on viola among other things and a CD with the same program will be coming out February 9th on Sadie's Sadie Records label but it will be available for pre-order or even at my concert in November so look for that and yeah a bunch of other things That sounds amazing. I'm going to put a link in the show notes for all of these things and as well as your website. Matthew Lipman, it's been so much fun talking with you today. Likewise. I really appreciate you taking the time to hang out for a little bit. I look forward to seeing your incredible journey continue to unfold. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. thank you guys so much for listening as fate would have it Matthew and I performed at the

Starting point is 00:44:55 same event in the Chicago area last night and that was awesome for me because not only did I have the chance to listen to him live for the first time but I was able to ask him a follow-up question, which I didn't get to in the interview, about what he thinks made him progress so fast as a beginner. And the conclusion that we came to was that it was most likely the combination of several factors, including his strong love of the instrument and natural ability to problem solve, and the fact that he really likes to explore things in depth. And he's curious about finding out all he can about the topics or the activities he's interested in. So there you have it. You can find the show notes for this episode at mindoverfinger.com. I would also love to connect

Starting point is 00:45:43 with you. So join the conversation on social media. Let me know what inspires you, what specific questions you have about mindful practice, and what other topics and guests you would like to hear about in future episodes. I am Mind Over Finger on all platforms. Next week, I'll be talking to Nathan Cole, first associate concertmaster of the LA Philharmonic and founder of Nate's Violin. He and I go into the nitty gritty details of mindful practice. So that's a conversation that you don't want to miss. I'm also working on a special project for you guys for the month of November, and I'll have more details in the next episode. If you have the chance, please head over to iTunes to subscribe and leave a review. It's very much appreciated. Again, thank

Starting point is 00:46:28 Thank you and à bientôt!

The Mind Over Finger Podcast - 006 Matthew Lipman: How Learning to Listen Well Lead Him to Great Heights & How he Prepares for Competitions and Performances

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