The Mind Over Finger Podcast - 011 Marina Thibeault: Musicality & Mission in Music-Making

Episode Date: November 16, 2018

In this episode, I chat with Marina Thibeault, solo violist and chamber musician.  We discuss mindfulness, presence, and efficiency in the practice room, the importance of letting the music sing when we play, and her upcoming new recording featuring works by women composers.  Her and I also have a little surprise for our French speaking listeners: we will continue the discussion in French following the English!  Marina's approach to music making is authentic and fresh, and her insight on musicality is spot on!  I'm sure you will enjoy her point of view and get a lot of value from this episode! Marina elaborates on: Her beginnings on the violin, deeply rooted in French Canadian folk music How yoga was an integral part of her violin routine from the very beginning Her studies, from the Quebec Conservatory to the Curtis Institute, studying with Michael Tree When and why she switched to viola Her work with a sport psychologist How she plans her practice How knowing yourself is important in planning your work How planning helps her being more present in her practice and keeps her focused What being present in the practice room means to her: listening and singing Her advice on how to start listening to ourselves How working on musicality is more like "option adventure" rather than "problem-solving" How it was to work with Michael Tree – how he trusted and nurtured all of his students, and how he was teaching "a lifestyle" How she picked the pieces for her upcoming album: all written by female composers How she feels there's a need for more room for female composers How she practiced creativity and feeling free in the practice room in preparation for her first album How being a good human is good! 😉 How finding balance between pursuing artistry and self-marketing is important, and how crucial it is to keep playing music for the right reasons How her son is her secret weapon How important it is to be selective with the advice we CHOOSE to listen to   ALL ABOUT MARINA: Marina's Website / site web Facebook Instagram YouTube The video when her son joins her and Wallis Giunta on stage for a performance: adorable! The Art of Practicing: A Guide to Making Music from the Heart by Madeline Bruser Jiro Dreams of Sushi   Marina Thibeault holds numerous honours and distinctions, including prizes from the Père-Lindsay Foundation (2017), "Révélation Radio-Canada" (2016-2017), CBC's "30 hot classical musicians under 30" (2016), and the Sylva Gelber Foundation (2016). She won first prize in the string category of Prix d'Europe (2015), the McGill Concerto Competition (2015), the Radio-Canada "Young Artist" prize (2007) as well a special prize at the Beethoven Hradec International Viola Competition (2008). During the 2018-2019 season, Marina will make her debuts in Toronto, Los Angeles, Cleveland, Seoul, East Europe, and Costa Rica, travelling with her partner and her two children. Marina's first album, Toquade, was released in April 2017 on the ATMA label, and was nominated by the ADISQ and Prix Opus for "album of the year". Marina has appeared internationally as a soloist with the North Czech Philharmonic, the Mariánské Lázně Symphony Orchestra, the Santiago Chamber Orchestra, as well as in recital at the Verbier festival and in Québec with the Orchestre Métropolitain, the Appassionata Chamber Orchestra, and the Drummondville Symphony, to mention a few. An avid chamber musician, Marina has collaborated with members of the Guarneri Quartet, the Cleveland Quartet, the London Haydn Quartet, Marie-Nicole Lemieux, amongst other renowned chamber musicians. Her interest in new music has led her to work with composers such as John Corigliano, Joan Tower, and Krzysztof Penderecki. At 9 years old, she was the youngest violin student to enter the Conservatoire de Musique de Québec where she studied with Claude Létourneau, Catherine Dallaire, and François Paradis. She holds a bachelor's degree from the Curtis Institute of Music, where she studied with professors Michael Tree and Roberto Diaz. In order to deepen her studies, she attended the Conservatorio della Svizzera italiana under the tutelage of Bruno Giuranna, with the help of the Canada Council of the Arts and the Eskas Scholarship. Marina holds a Master's degree from McGill University, where she studied with André Roy. Also at McGill, she is currently a doctoral candidate, as well as viola and chamber music instructor. Since the summer of 2018, Marina has coordinated the chamber music program at Domaine Forget, QC, where she will also begin teaching viola in the summer of 2019. Marina plays on an 1767 Carlo Ferdinand Landolfi, with a W.E Hill Sons bow, generously loaned by Canimex.   If you enjoyed the show, please leave a review on iTunes!  I truly appreciate your support!   THANK YOU: Most sincere thank you to composer Jim Stephenson who graciously provided the show's musical theme!  Concerto #1 for Trumpet and Chamber Orchestra – Movement 2: Allegro con Brio, performed by Jeffrey Work, trumpet, and the Lake Forest Symphony, conducted by Jim Stephenson. Also a huge thank you to my producer, Bella Kelly!   MIND OVER FINGER – Dr. Renée-Paule Gauthier: www.mindoverfinger.com https://www.facebook.com/mindoverfinger/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/mindoverfingertribe/

You're listening to the Mind Over Finger Podcast, episode number 11. Welcome to the Mind Over Finger Podcast, discussions on mindful music making, efficient practice, and building a purposeful career. And now, your host, Dr. Rene Paul Gaultier. Hi, everyone. Today, I chat with Marina Thibault, an incredible solo violist and chamber musician and a truly wonderful person. A graduate of the Curtis Institute, Marina holds numerous honors and distinctions and performs throughout the world in recitals and as a soloist with orchestras. During the 2018-19 season, Marina will make her debut in Toronto, Los Angeles, Cleveland, Seoul, East Europe, and Costa Rica, traveling with her partner and her two children.

Her first album, Tokad, was released in April of 2017 on the Atma label and was nominated by the Adisk and Pre-Opus for the Album of the Year. An avid chamber musician, Marina has collaborated with members of the Guarneri, Cleveland, and London Haydn Quartets, and she is the coordinator for the champion music program at Domaine Fourgette International Music Academy, where she will also begin teaching viola in the summer of 2019. Marina and I have a great discussion for you today. We talk about mindfulness, presence and efficiency in the practice room, the importance of letting

the music sing when we play, and her upcoming new recording featuring works by women composers. Her and I also have a little surprise for our French-speaking listeners. We're going to continue the discussion in French following the English interview. Alors si votre langue est le français, restez des nôtres pour attraper notre conversation aux alentours de la 39e minute. Marina's approach to music making is so authentic and fresh, and her insight on musicality is spot on. I'm sure you will enjoy her point of view and get a lot of value from this episode. Let's go to the show. Marina Thibault thank you so much for being here today thanks so much for inviting me it's such a

pleasure I love this because you and I have never met but we connected through Instagram about a year ago and I really feel like we've sort of become really good friends yes was it the 100 days of practice that got us together. Yes, exactly. That's a good one. And it was so, so inspiring to watch you. I hope that everyone goes on Instagram and start following you right now. You have such a unique and authentic voice. And I really love getting to know you through your musical adventures. Oh, wow. I'm blushing. Thank you. I feel like, you know, you perform such a wide variety of repertoire in different contexts. And I find that your mindful approach of music making, it resonates with me so strongly. And really, really happy we're having a chance to

chat today. Yes, I get a lot of good advice from your Insta. So you know where my source of inspiration is. Thank you. And we're also going to do something fun today. I mentioned it in the intro, but we're going to chat in English for a little bit, then we'll switch to French. So that's going to be a lot of fun for me. Can we start with your musical journey? Can you please tell us a little bit about you and how you got to where you are and how your artistic path has unfolded? Yes well it all started with folk music for me and I heard my fiddler neighbor when I was six seven years old and I would bring out my little plastic chair in the backyard and would listen to him play all afternoon on his balcony. And I was really mesmerized. And

my parents thought that was a little weird that I would spend so many hours just staring at this old man. But gladly, he taught me how to play a little bit. And his granddaughter was an osteopath that had played classical music as well. So she would teach me yoga at the same time as she would teach me violin and then I entered the conservatoire at nine years old with Claude who is a really well-renowned pedagogue in Quebec he studied with Galamian in New York and he's really one of the pioneers in Canada of that whole aesthetic and and really heavy technical background and so that that got serious that was the end of folk music for me but it I kept it um for all of my family reunion to make my family dance and and cheer and be

happy and so that when when I had some rough patch as a young string player as we all do I would kind of reconnect with the my folk roots of Quebec like folk music and it would um reconnect me with the reasons why I'm I'm doing music and why I want to share it with people So I guess that's the genesis of how I started. And then after that, I think you went to Curtis, correct? Yes. I switched for viola at 15 when I heard it, played it very nicely for the first time, actually. And for me, it was an instrument that did not exist in my world at that time.

And at 15, I fell in love with the sound, the earthy quality. and the the realness of it like the the the rawness in in the high register and the really mellow and marshmallow colors of the the c-string and i was so motivated by that change by the change of repertoire suddenly most of the repertoire was playing was uh 20th and 21st century all of the sudden and that was a really good fit for me i really enjoyed that and then went on to curtis at 17 for four years and i studied with my beloved michael tree i was very very lucky to to be uh under his guidance and feels a little bit like a yoda for me this man not just viola teacher actually yeah it's beyond playing and we can discuss that later if we have

time oh that's so great you know i love i love your story i think that we can really feel that you used the word mesmerized and i think that we can feel that in your playing you know i i love how fresh it is that you fell in love with the folk music and then how then you fell in love with the viola I think we really feel that and you're playing this love that you have for music such a great story and how about we dig into the more practicing part of things I feel like as I said earlier you have such a mindful approach to practicing but to me it feels like it affects every aspect of your life I mean even the yoga part I did not realize you were introduced to Yoga at such a young age, that's wonderful.

I didn't even know it was yoga at that point. I seriously thought it was part of my violin routine to do these stretches and these breathing exercises. And I thought it was part of the regimen, just like you must get a pencil and take notes and get a book and put rosin. You know, I thought it was part of the whole process. So it was never separated somehow. That's so great. I feel that to a certain extent, it might have really helped with body awareness as you practice the violin. Because I know for me, I started yoga much later in life.

And once I made the connection that yoga and violin are so connected, it really brought a different dimension to my approach to violin playing. Definitely. Can you talk to us a bit about your approach to music making? More specifically to practicing, what makes it productive to you? Not too long ago I wanted to reach bigger goals and just be more clear about what my goals were and I met with a sports therapist and just to be clear he really works on the mental approach of preparing anyone in the performance field so it could be your circus athlete or your tennis player or you're a viola player and so he really helped me to make a plan of my practice monthly

like we were discussing different repertoire and different projects earlier on so every month I sit down and I make a plan for what my month looks like what chamber music projects and program I have to to prepare concerti recital different recitals and permutation of programs and so usually that list of rep is rather long and I feel a bit dizzy looking at it and then I go week by week and I make I make a plan of if I want to either learn all that repertoire or get it get it back in shape and how much do I need to practice it during the week so that's very much knowing yourself and that comes in maybe a little bit later also in in life not that I'm a million years old but I definitely didn't know

how much time I needed for learning certain type of pieces before and now I'm getting more experience with it and then once I make that weekly plan I have to follow it otherwise you can feel a little bit anxious if you don't don't follow your plan and and sometimes it means that you can adjust it it's not like set in stone because there's always things that that happens that are maybe not in your plan at the very beginning but that's the whole reason why I'm making this plan is that I can practice and not have to think about all the millions of organization things that I have to think about so when I sit down it's all planned for me and I just follow it And then I just, of course, try to be as present as I can, even though that is not always easy.

But for me, being present, it means listening and singing. And if I'm listening to what I'm doing, then I can watch if there are any challenges and then how I must resolve those challenges. and singing usually internally um usually teaches me how to fix those those challenges and technically and artistically that's really great you know can we unwrap this for a second because i feel like there's always so much talk about listening to ourselves better but for someone who's not quite sure how to do this what would you suggest some ways to start listening better how does one go about that well if i play a phrase um i will usually start by asking um and listening for what is the character that i think the composer wants what what is the

what the what is the intention musical intention and then it will be how to create that intention and then it will be how to make it happen so that will be well okay so if the character is mesmerizing then maybe i want a sound that is very cloudy so how do i achieve a cloudy sound well I could use my bow contact to be nearer to the fingerboard with a little bit faster vibrato to make it more shallow or exciting. And so that's kind of, it's a lot of steps to get to an artistic goal, but of course it has to go through technical approach. Yes, I love that. Like you were saying, it starts with that clear intention and then asking ourselves questions on how to create that intention and how to make it happen yeah instead of like seeing it as a problem solving

because it's not really a problem it's a it's a option adventure oh option adventure that's i love that i think i'm going to start including that in my in my teaching oh good i just came up with it so you can have it thank you i had a conversation a few weeks ago with mark galfo who said something and I was thinking I should make a poster out of it. So here's my second poster for my studio, Option Adventure. You know, you spoke about Michael Tree earlier, and I love hearing you talk about, you know, this deep connection that you had with him and how he was more of a guide and a mentor to you more than just a viola teacher. What are some of the most valuable things he taught you that you feel really impacted your playing but you also maybe as a

person well I really see his really intense blue eyes looking at me right now thinking about him it's a mix of Michael Tree the human and Michael Tree the musician which are very much related and actually just one um large bigger than life thing but um all I remember from my first lesson was complete um how how can I say uh dissatisfaction with myself after because you come to Curtis and you have all these big goals and I'm gonna enter that competition and I'm gonna play all the sonatas by next week and blah blah blah and um i brought the clark rebecca clark sonata first movement and all we did was the first phrase and then i would see him next month so already my my goal of learning all the sonatas in one week was not met

it got stalled a bit yeah a little bit and I thought wow I really left my family to live in another country and then just do one phrase per month that's not how I thought it would work and he was so kind also the whole time and I thought wow what what does that mean like does he think that I just don't understand that he has to be so nice and and so I was really puzzled after my first lesson and all he talked about was about different ways to use vibrato bow distribution all possible permutation of bowings and fingerings for that first phrase and then I realized of course oh I can apply this to the second phrase maybe and and of course for the rest of the month I was so busy trying to figure out if I if I sing inside my heart or if

I sing out loud um how do I want that phrase to to to come out and and then how do I how do I make it come out like that and so already for for the first lesson he designed my next four years and the plan was just to phrase no matter anything else we would talk about it was always related to phrasing wow it's so touching how eloquently you speak of him I really love how it seems he's taking you know of course we go to lesson and we hope to get all technical and learn how to execute things on the instrument but how it seems that with him it was all coming from a real artistic vision yes and ultimately coming from the student i think he had so much so much trust in each of his students and trust in their vision and of course he knew that we were babies

musical babies and his goal i believe was with all of his kindness and and human nature to give us all the tools that um to become our own teacher eventually and and then to teach that approach so i feel like his teaching is really a lifestyle more than a regiment of if you do that many scales per day with this etude and practice this piece backwards you will be great and and win this competition you know it was really beyond beyond all of those tiramisu recipes that's really inspiring and i don't know i feel strongly about you this depth i feel that and how you approach things also and that would be a great segue and the next thing i wanted to talk to you about which was this project of this upcoming cd i read about how you chose the repertoire for your first cd

which was done in, I feel like, such a profound way. And it's a fantastic CD, by the way. Everybody should check it out. It's called Tokad and probably available on Amazon and iTunes, I'm guessing. Yes, and Spotify. And Spotify, great. Fantastic CD. And you're now preparing to record another CD.

Actually, it's already recorded, but it's coming out in a very long time. Oh. So it's coming out in March 2019. It's been recorded in April 2018 at the Domaine Forger. Oh, that's a fantastic call. Wonderful. I'm going to put links to this in the show notes. And as soon as the information for the upcoming release comes out, I'll make sure to update it. Well, that's great. If it's already been recorded, then, you know, you can talk to us more about...

I understand that the repertoire is really closely related to a topic that's close to your heart and that you're researching for your doctoral dissertation. Can you talk to us a little bit about this? Yes. Well, it's funny because I changed completely my doctoral studies topic when I started thinking about this project because I thought socially and musically was so important that I had to make a big shift.

So initially, my doctoral project at McGill was to dig in further to what I had already started doing in my master's degree which was to study the brain plasticity of musicians after meditation and then see how that can be incorporated into string pedagogy to relieve stress and performance anxiety so of course that's a really important topic and there's not much studies done in classical music per se there's a lot of studies like 2000 studies on the benefits of meditation but on musicians there's less than 20 studies so i thought that was relevant and um and then when i started making program ideas that's something i've been doing since i'm like 15 just writing programs that i

want to play and trying to put pieces together and making i call this making marriages just like who who is good with who and um and then i started thinking i have so many pieces that i want to play that are written by women and um and the more i started to to dig um i saw how much more room there was in uh programming either for concerts and for for cds in classical music for women composers and so for me the really the artistic material made a big shift in my doctoral degree and inspired my recording project so I know that a lot of artists they have a recording contract and then they sit down with their label and they they're being asked what do you want to record and then they

make a plan but for me it was mostly like okay i see that there is a important room to make for women composers and there's such great repertoire that would go really well together just like for all male cd you wouldn't necessarily have to promote it as a male composer cd it's a weird thing to say actually so for my album i'm wishing that of course it's going to be promoted as a women composer city because it's it's something that doesn't happen quite often unfortunately but i'm hoping that soon we won't have to justify or or explain that it's all by women it will just be music right so that's a that's really my my goal is to study um where did it all come from with Clara Schumann and Fanny Hensel-Mendelssohn

and also in the pedagogy with Nadia Boulanger, such important figure in classical music. If she hadn't existed, we wouldn't have all of our beloved composers that keep being programmed by all of the producers and orchestras nowadays. So I really wanted to see how was it for these women back in that day.

And I know that Clara Schumann was really frowned upon for leaving her children with the nanny and going on concert tours. And I realized that it's still pretty frowned upon today to do that. It's not really so well accepted, but it's becoming more and more open. And it's really inspiring to study these women and how they manage their career. and rebecca clark also was one of a pioneer for the viola and composer you know she had to stop everything in her 50s because it was too hard and so she decided to get married and to stop everything and so on my cd it's a little bit of a homage to these women that didn't have it easy to perform and do the things they they really wanted that's really important i think that

you're doing this and I definitely hope like you that you know we get to a point where we don't have to make the distinction like you said so well that it's just music if I take us down to a little bit more down to earth thing I'm very curious about how you practice to prepare for a program like this you talked a little bit about how you make a plan so I'm sure you make a plan for this But how do you prepare in the practice room? And also, once you're on stage and recording, how do you keep the stamina going during these intense recording sessions? I love what you just said, when you're on stage recording. And that's something for me that I had a little bit of a mind bug, you know, while preparing for my first album, for instance,

because it was in a studio at Radio Canada, CBC. And I thought, oh, I'm going to be in this really airtight studio and there's no room for artistry. It must be perfect and right away because I don't want to make people waste their time on me doing things over and over again. And so I was a little bit less zen the first time around while preparing until I went to see one of my teachers in London

David Takeno he's a violin teacher but he sometimes takes on violists because I think he quite likes viola as well and so he basically told me something that was so relieving and he told me recording is just like a concert except that you can fix and redo whatever you wish and start again and so after that I really felt so much better about going into the studio and it felt like a big luxury, you know, not as a death trap or something really frightening like that. So I was able to then in the practice room, practice the creativity and practice feeling free instead of practice being perfect, if that makes sense. Here's my third poster, practice feeling free. Yes, but that's a hard one. Because we rarely practice it. Because if yeah, if the goal

is to be perfect then that's not such a fun goal is it it's very constricting and it's not the thing that it's not attainable it's not realistic and it doesn't really do much to be perfect so i mean it doesn't mean that you have to be sloppy if you're not perfect and that's a you know musicians were so um like all or nothing and so i thought that okay i'm gonna try to do my best of course to to play the music but um most importantly is how i wanted to sound and and why i'm recording these pieces while i was practicing i was really asking myself so many questions about why is this on the album and why do i want that color or why do i want that repertoire what what does it mean to the viola world and how is that relevant to the music world why do people need it or need to

hear about it. And so that transforms a lot my practicing if I'm thinking about sharing rather than canning something. Right. Yeah. It's that Zen approach you mentioned. I feel like when we're aiming for perfection, there is such a restriction that we impose on ourselves. And I love that when you said practice feeling free, because it really is the essence of what we should aim for when we perform really feel free on stage this is really great i'd love to keep chatting all day but we're gonna switch to french soon how about a round of rapid fire questions before we do that yes for the people who are dreaming of becoming a violist a concert violist can you tell us a little bit about what your life looks like

well um it's a lot of chamber music which is why i play viola because i like to see how it fits with the others and how i can support and and how i can help my colleagues that's always my favorite part about playing viola and also it's an instrument like other instruments but even more because it's recently emerging as a solo instrument and it's still evolving so much artistically and technically so as a young violist there's a lot of contribution you can make to the instrument and to its own development so that's really for me a big luxury to be working with living composers and and And try to, if I am commissioning a piece, by whom and why that contribution and asking yourself all the questions of where you want the viola to go, actually, because you have the power to take it where it's never been.

So this is quite the luxury about playing the viola. It's like a play, though, a little bit. That's great. How about a performance that stayed with you throughout the years? I would say Yannick Nézet-Séguin conducting Mozart Requiem with the Philadelphia Orchestra. That was his first year, probably 2011. And that was when the orchestra was really not doing so well financially and Yannick took over with a new contract. and it was such an amazing performance that it was all sold out and they added a few extra

performances I think four four extra performances and and during the standing ovation I remember some of the second violin members were were crying like on stage because they they felt like maybe they have a a prophet coming to to help them so that was really great to be part of the audience and noticing this uh the orchestra finally uh getting peace and having their their savior wow talk about a powerful moment yeah no kidding and marina what skills do you think young musicians studying today should acquire in addition to learning to play their instruments anything related to being a good human is good um and of course we're asked more and more to to have more skills in entrepreneurship and graphic design and administration

and however yes i think this is very important to develop and um and time management and all those great things but it's all to help your artistry and how you want to share it with the world so i wish that for young players um to find balance in this uh this new way of being a musician and promoting yourself but mostly promoting the music and and wanting to practice and wanting to play concerts because of the music and not because of the exposure yeah i loved your answer so much you know about being a good person and I really feel like this shows um this shows on on your Instagram feed on your Facebook activities you know how genuine you are I feel like Marina the person is really fully woven with Marina the artist and you're so generous in

sharing these stories of your life and I love I I'm going to put a link to this in the show notes to how you're not afraid of being spontaneous um about you know this performance where your young son was backstage and you brought it on stage for a song with wallace junta i believe it was in ottawa ontario and um i just i love this about you that's such a great answer to this question well for me my baby he helps me so much to be a better person and better musician that if he's on stage with me like either in my belly or outside my belly I find that it really helps me so yeah it's out of spontaneity but also a little bit of I don't know he's like my secret secret how do you say well your secret weapon yeah that was such a beautiful moment

So whenever I feel like whenever I feel like I need courage, you know, because some performances, they're so stressful and, you know, everyone is there and then you feel like, oh, what do you think of me and everything? And and then I just remember my son, how courageous he is just learning how to do all these things every day. And then suddenly it doesn't feel too bad. I know I'm with you on that. I have a pictures of my kids in the folder I take on stage for performances. Oh, I understand. Yes. do you have a favorite tool in the practice room that's a really good question I use this app

called tunable oh I love tunable I love tunable I wish I could get married with tunable so it's a matter of how much time I use it per day because sometimes you know depending of who you're playing with and and if you're playing with piano or with orchestra or if you're playing just solo but then you're playing baroque and then contemporary with all microtones sometimes i just need a little tunable just to to come back to my center of intonation and and just having the app um show you like when when it's all green because it's perfectly in tune it feels like my bank account is full of money and it feels really good that's fantastic how about a favorite book that you would recommend to the listeners?

And it does not have to be a music book. Well, I have, my first book that I read regarding mixing mindfulness and music together was by Madeline Brucer, and it's The Art of Practicing. And I'm sure that you've read this many times and passed it on to your students. But for me, it's a must if you're interested in practicing mindfully and setting up your practice room

so beautifully that it makes you want to go and practice. And, you know, musicians, sometimes like our room is a big mess of explosions of clothes and music and it smells like takeout and everything. And so how are you expected to have a good practice session in this kind of setup? up so this book if you're interested and you know want to learn a little bit more about mindfulness in the practice room it's a really good way to start and then i have a sushi documentary

maybe hero dreams of sushi you can find it on netflix and whenever i feel like i'm like lacking motivation for like craftsmanship you know because so much of this detailed work and as being a sushi chef is found also is in being a musician so I go and watch that and then it makes me want to work really well and hard yes see that's why I feel like we're friends because I agree with both of those things I love this book my copy is well highlighted and you know there's lots of notes in it and I agree with that documentary loved it myself oh yes and two back-to-back pregnancies is really making me want to eat sushi how about a piece of advice that you received and that impacted your life in the way that you feel like you would like to pass it on to the listeners

i had a good counter advice can i say that oh absolutely someone told me while i was in that i love music too much and i felt really bad about this comment for many years actually and it came back to me so often and as if it was something wrong with me that I love music so much and a few years went on and recently when I was reading about Nadia Boulanger I found out that first thing when she would accept a new student she would ask can you live without music and if the student said yes I can live without music then she would reject them she would kick them out and so I thought oh okay maybe it's okay to love music too much and and thank god that I love music too much because I don't think I would have continued with um all the obstacles and the

the challenges and the the hard things about becoming a musician so I think um yeah just if you can't live without music that's okay if you love music too much that's okay too and to not believe every piece of advice you receive right yes it's it's good to learn how to be a filter yes because sometimes it doesn't matter how many good advice you will have so many good advice like how many good advice have we had we can't even use all of them and it only takes one bad advice to pollute that sea of amazing comments and and advice that you've had throughout your whole life and so to be able to to deroute these these comments that can really come and bug you is a skill to develop and it's definitely a hard skill to develop but a must oh yes that's

so astute it's so right on how about a quick actionable tip that the listeners could implement today in their musical lives well maybe related to what we were speaking earlier that if everyone were to sing internally while playing maybe you can watch your your own vision and expression come out of the music quicker than per se having it being told to you and and maybe even forced onto you by someone else's vision does that make sense absolutely that's great so before we switch to french where can people find you and learn more about you oh instagram is a good place to start. You can find me at Marina Thibault Viola, all in one word. Twitter is Marina Thibault. Facebook, Marina Thibault. My page is on there. Website, marinatibault.com. And yeah, that's

about it for the social media. And I'll put links in the show notes. So Marina, I'll say goodbye in English for now, but we're staying online so we can continue this conversation in French. But You are such a great inspiration for me, and I can only dream of the day that we will finally meet in person. Oh, likewise. And it feels like it should be coming soon. I agree. Yes.

Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you guys so much for listening. You can find the show notes for this episode at mindoverfinger.com. I would also love to connect with you. So join the conversation on social media. Let me know what inspires you, what specific questions you have about mindful practice and what other topics and guests you would like to hear about in future episodes.

I am Mind Over Finger on all platforms. And if you're looking for a community of mindful practice enthusiasts, Join the Mind Over Finger tribe at facebook.com slash groups slash mindoverfingertribe. There you will find inspiration, motivation, and support, as well as information and discussion on how to take your practice to the next level and enjoy the process. Next week, I'll be talking to Jason Hohheim, Principal Timpanist with New York's Metropolitan Opera. We discuss his fascinating journey going from working full-time as a scientist to holding

one of the most coveted positions in the world. Jason applied the principles of deliberate practice in his life in a way that will amaze and inspire you. This is an episode you don't want to miss. If you enjoy this episode, please take a minute to head over to iTunes to rate and leave a review. It's very much appreciated. For those of you speaking French, stay tuned as a conversation with Marina in French is coming up. Again, thank you and à bientôt. Bonjour tout le monde! C'est vraiment un grand plaisir pour moi de finalement pouvoir vous parler dans ma langue et je suis vraiment excitée de le faire avec une invitée aussi extraordinaire que Marina Thibault.

Si vous ne me connaissez pas, je m'appelle Renée-Paul Gauthier, je suis une violoniste originaire du Saguenay et habitant à Chicago et je mène une carrière très active en tant que violoniste et professeure de violon. Ma passion est la pleine conscience dans la pratique afin de mieux performer sur scène et j'ai créé le Mind Over Finger podcast afin de pouvoir discuter tous ces beaux sujets autour de la pratique instrumentale intentionnelle. Vous pouvez en savoir plus sur moi en visitant mindoverfinger.com et vous pouvez aussi me trouver sur Instagram et Facebook en cherchant Mind Over Finger.

Si ça vous intéresse, vous pouvez aussi joindre le groupe de pratique intentionnelle en visitant facebook.com barobliquegroups baroblique pratiquaintentionnel et je vais mettre des liens pour tout ça dans les notes qui viennent avec ce podcast. Maintenant, quelques mots sur Marina Thibault. Marina est une graduée

du célèbre Curtis Institute of Music et elle est lauréate de nombreuses distinctions et a remporté plusieurs concours. Elle s'est produite à travers le monde comme soliste, lors de récitals et avec orchestre. Son premier album, Tocade, sur étiquette Atma Classique, a été

nommé dans la catégorie Album Classique de l'année au Gala de la Disque 2017 et au Prix Opus 2018 dans la catégorie Disque de l'année Musique moderne contemporaine. La saison 2018-2019 l'amènera à faire ses débuts à Toronto, Los Angeles, Cleveland, Séoul, en Europe de l'Est et au Costa Rica, en compagnie de son partenaire et de leurs deux enfants. Chambriste passionné, Marina a collaboré avec les membres du Quatuor Guarneri, du Cleveland Quartet, du London Haydn Quartet et elle coordonne le programme de musique de chambre de l'Académie internationale du domaine forgette

où elle va aussi enseigner l'alto à l'été 2019. Marina joue sur un alto fabriqué en 1767 par Carlo Ferdinand Landolfi et un archet généreusement prêté par Canimex. Dans la conversation qui suit, on revisite quelques sujets dont on avait déjà discuté en anglais, dont entre autres la mission de son nouvel album qui va sortir en mars prochain.

On parle aussi de comment pratiquer de façon intentionnelle dans le studio et comment approcher la performance sur scène. Ça a été un grand plaisir pour moi de jaser avec Marina et j'espère que vous allez vous sentir aussi inspiré que je le suis par son approche authentique de son art. Je prévois de recevoir d'autres invités francophones dans les mois qui suivent, alors c'est un rendez-vous. Et maintenant, ma discussion avec Marina.

Marina, thank you so much for being here. I hope that the people who are listening to us right now have been able to understand the first part because there were so many things that you said that were inspiring. It gives me the desire to run in my practice studio, in fact. Well, that's the goal. That's often what I feel when I watch your videos on Instagram.

It's often the case that I'm going to open my Daltôme after listening to you. Oh, merci. C'est gentil. Marina, alors j'aimerais ça faire un petit retour en arrière sur une discussion qu'on vient juste d'avoir en anglais par rapport à ton disque, parce que je pense que c'est un sujet qui est très important et j'aimerais qu'on en reparle en français un petit peu. On a parlé de comment tu as choisi le répertoire pour le disque et comment tu te prépares pour ça et j'aime énormément comment tout ça est lié avec, en fait, comme tu as mentionné dans la portion anglophone, comment choisir le répertoire pour ce disque-là a influencé ta thèse de doctorat et le sujet, donc la contribution des femmes en tant qu'interprètes, compositrices et pédagogues. Peux-tu nous parler un peu plus de tout ça, le choix du répertoire et l'intention derrière ces choix? Oui. Donc, dans le fond, pour le répertoire de mon deuxième disque, tout a commencé lorsque je commençais à être de plus en plus intéressée par beaucoup de répertoires écrits par des femmes, par des compositrices. Puis, dans le fond, je me suis rendue compte qu'il y avait tellement des pionnières dans le monde de la musique, dont Clara Schumann, Fanny Hensel-Mendelssohn, Nadia Boulanger,

qui a enseigné à tous les compositeurs qu'on voit programmés aujourd'hui dans les orchestres ou dans les diffuseurs de toute la planète. Donc, j'ai commencé à un peu plus creuser sur qui étaient ces femmes-là, comment elles organisaient leur carrière. On sait que Clara Schumann a eu plusieurs enfants, qu'elle avait Nounou qui la suivait un peu partout, qui restait avec les enfants à la maison lorsqu'elle était en tournée. Donc, c'est vraiment intéressant pour moi de voir dans un milieu qui est encore quand même très traditionnel, qui est en ouverture cependant, d'étudier ces femmes et de voir comment ils faisaient pour gérer tout ça. Donc, j'ai découvert de la musique magnifique, pas nécessairement écrite pour alto. Il y aura des transcriptions, bien sûr, pour ce répertoire-là.

Il y a un magnifique lead de Fanny Mendelssohn pour voix qui est arrangé pour alto. Les trois romances de Clara Chauvin. Nadia Boulanger écrit trois pièces pour violoncelle qui n'avaient jamais été enregistrées à l'alto. So, my good friend François Vallière kindly accepted to do an arrangement. And it's working pretty well. It's really a great contribution, by the way, to the repertoire of the alto. So, I'm really very happy. And Rebecca Clark will also, of course, be on the CD.

And Lillian Fuchs. In fact, these two women were the first soloist, female, altist. And Rebecca Clark really led a great career for the time, did tours in New York, won big prizes in contests, really all but a woman. Mais cependant, elle voyait quand même qu'il y avait des limitations à sa carrière. Autant que compositrice qui interprète, elle était quand même souvent accusée de que son nom soit un pseudonyme pour, par exemple, Ravel ou d'autres hommes blancs de telle. So, it was still very difficult for her, where often it was proposed to be programmed in a concert only if the broadcaster could use a pseudonym of a male name. So, in the 50s, she decided that it was over, she got married and moved to New York, and then found a husband and country, and then it was the end of her career. So, for me, this CD is a tribute to these women who have really worked hard for the field, for us, in the end.

And, of course, there's still a lot to do, but one day, I hope we won't need to make a CD and explain that, in the end, it's a composer's CD. Because we don't need to explain a CD that only has male composers, something that we never say. Donc, un jour, bientôt, il y aura beaucoup, beaucoup plus de CD, de compositeurs uniquement féminins, mais c'est sûr que c'est en changement, puis ça me fait vraiment plaisir de faire partie de ce changement, puis c'est sûr que ça va être un mouvement général d'ici tôt, j'en suis convaincue. Je trouve que c'est un, je n'aime pas vraiment utiliser le mot travail, mais c'est un travail très important que tu fais en ce moment et tu parles de contribution au répertoire, c'est vraiment extraordinaire, je trouve que tu sois, que tu fasses partie activement de cette vague de changement. comme tu dis, ces femmes-là ont eu à faire des choix extrêmement difficiles et c'est vraiment par on parlait justement tantôt

comment on peut ou ne pas vivre sans musique on peut ou on ne peut pas vivre sans musique et puis on voit à quel point leur passion pour l'art, pour la musique était aussi forte au point de faire en sorte que

ils ont dû faire des sacrifices incroyables pour pouvoir poursuivre dans cette voie-là. Et je me demandais comment, toi, tu approches ton impact, cette contribution-là comme interprète et comme professeur aussi. Et on voit comment tu as une contribution directe au répertoire pour alto exactement.

Quelle est ta vision pour ça, pour toi? Bien, c'est sûr qu'en jouant de l'alto, on en parlait un petit peu plus tôt en anglais, mais j'ai l'impression que chaque altiste has a responsibility to make the instrument evolve according to her preferences, her tastes, her aspirations, her vision. So, it's certain, like, to go back to the album, for example, I have a friend who is a composer who is currently doing a doctorate at Princeton,

also which evokes certain issues of women's rights in Ukrainian folklore. So she wrote a piece for Violoncelle that she transposed for Alto for my second album. So working with other artists who have the same vision and who work in the same way as us, like you with your podcast on full awareness applied to practice, musicians, I think it's important to create links. L'alto est un instrument qui aime être en lien avec les autres, autant au point de vue de musique de chambre qu'en enseignement. Dans le fond, aussi, c'est une autre opportunité pour moi

d'être en lien avec ce que j'ai été transmise et ce que j'ai le goût de transmettre aux prochaines générations. Donc, pour moi, c'est un, ma carrière de chambrise, ma carrière de soliste, ma carrière de prof, c'est vraiment à partir du partage qu'on fait tout le monde ensemble. Donc, c'est ce que j'essaie de garder en tête. Ah, c'est extraordinaire. Et c'est une des choses que j'adore à propos de toi, c'est, j'ai l'impression que ton approche est vraiment personnelle, c'est authentique. Et puis, j'ai l'impression que c'est vraiment guidé par une vision artistique qui est, de mon point de vue, qui est claire. Peux-tu nous parler un peu de ça, ton approche musicale dans la pratique, mais aussi en concert?

Mon approche musicale? Oui, comment tu approches la pratique et comment tu approches la préparation au concert et la performance en concert? On disait un peu plus tôt que de faire des plans, c'est vraiment un bel outil pour commencer. Et puis, c'est certain que dès que la pratique commence, je veux vraiment être dans un environnement que je sais que je vais être attentive, que je vais être à l'écoute, puis que je n'aurai pas peur d'essayer plein d'affaires. Parce que je me suis rendu compte que ce qui me donnait beaucoup d'anxiété sur scène, c'était des choses que même dans la salle de pratique, je n'osais pas faire. Donc, de vraiment être vrai avec soi-même, d'enlever les masques, les voiles, le maquillage, tout ce qui n'est pas nécessaire dans la salle de pratique pour aller à la racine de ce que je veux faire. Donc, puis là, bien, c'est toute une panoplie d'aventures qui peuvent sortir de ces choses-là, mais des fois, c'est super terre-à-terre, puis c'est super technique.

Je pense à juste répartir mon archer comme il faut. Je pense à mon vibrato, mais j'essaie de pas isoler. J'essaie de pas isoler trop les variantes techniques de mon jeu. L'enseignement de Michael Tree que j'ai reçu, lui, c'était vraiment dans le multitâche. Ça, c'est quelque chose que ça m'a pris des années à comprendre. Puis c'est vraiment difficile à expliquer en très peu de temps. Mais si sur scène, il faut pratiquer, il faut performer le multitâche sur scène. On est d'accord que sur scène, on ne pense pas à « OK, là, il faut que je vive mon premier doigt ».

Ce n'est pas le moment. C'est le moment où est-ce qu'on est supposé penser à rien. C'est supposé tout marcher comme par magie, mais il faut pratiquer ce sentiment-là de vision qui a plusieurs couches, dans le fond plusieurs dimensions. Ça, c'est quelque chose qui prend beaucoup d'énergie dans la salle de pratique. Pour moi, lorsque j'enseigne, puis lorsque je pratique moi-même, après 30-35 minutes, je sens que j'aurais besoin d'une pause. Bon, pour l'enseignement, habituellement, c'est une heure, donc c'est là qu'on va rajouter d'habitude une petite anecdote, une petite histoire, juste pour remplir l'énergie un peu. Mais dans la salle de pratique, c'est certain que je ne fais pas des durées de plus de 30 à 35 minutes à la fois. Donc, dépendamment de combien de blocs de 30-35 minutes je dois faire par jour, ça, je l'adapte selon le type de répertoire que je dois apprendre,

Combien de programmes je dois apprendre ou je dois tenir au chaud pendant une semaine ou pendant plusieurs semaines. Ou des fois, bon, un concerto sur plusieurs, plusieurs mois. Donc, c'est vraiment de, oui, le plan est important. Puis ensuite, ça va être de devenir très à l'aise très vite avec le multitâche, le plus vite possible. Ça, c'est vraiment excellent. Merci beaucoup d'avoir partagé ça. C'est comme tu dis, ça m'a vraiment frappée. Le mot que tu as utilisé, c'est isoler, isoler les éléments.

Et puis, moi aussi, je suis coupable de ce très grand crime, des fois, de ne pas penser à, avant tout, la musicalité. Quel est le résultat final? La phrase, le message, l'art en arrière de ce qu'on essaie d'exécuter sur un instrument. Et puis, le nouveau terme que j'utilise dans le studio avec les élèves, c'est de l'anti-pratique. Alors, je dis, bon, refais ce passage-là plus lentement. Ça, c'est juste un exemple, mais on le refait plus lentement. Et puis, c'est pas la bonne nuance dans la mauvaise place dans l'archet, pas la bonne articulation. Pas la bonne intention, finalement.

Exactement. Alors, je me rends compte que, bon, on apprend en enseignant, d'ailleurs, et je me rends compte que, c'est ça, c'est de l'anti-pratique. Quand on oublie l'intention artistique derrière les difficultés techniques, c'est là qu'on perd du temps et qu'on ne pratique pas vraiment les bonnes choses. Mais c'est la multitâche. Puis même qu'on fortifie une mauvaise façon de jouer, non seulement on n'avance pas, mais on consolide une mauvaise version dans notre corps. Absolument. C'est difficile après à se détoxifier de ces heures à passer un peu sans l'intention complète en tête. Mais bien sûr, c'est quelque chose qu'on travaille toute notre vie.

On parlait un peu de Hiro avec le chef de sushi un peu plus tôt. C'est passer sa vie à atteindre cet idéal, ce côté-là de perfection dans la tête. En fait, c'est vraiment comme juste au niveau du mental d'être tellement fort de jongler tous ces paramètres-là en même temps. C'est pour ça que je pense que les gens y croient à la réincarnation, parce que ça prend plusieurs vies avant de pouvoir faire ça. Mais il faut le pratiquer. C'est sûr qu'on peut être facilement paresseux et se concentrer sur juste un élément, mais sur scène, ça prend beaucoup plus d'éléments

pour faire un concert convaincant du début jusqu'à la fin. Je pense que c'est pour ça que les gens aiment Yannick Nézet-Séguin, parce que lui, il est complètement dans le moment présent. Il y a certaines personnes qui ont besoin du zen, qui ont besoin de la pratique de la pleine conscience. Mais je suis convaincue que Yannick, quand il fait sa vaisselle, Il est complètement concentré sur sa vaisselle. Je ne le connais pas, mais j'ai l'impression que c'est l'impression que j'ai de lui quand je le vois diriger.

Il est complètement absorbé dans chaque seconde, dans chaque fraction de seconde. Il est là, exactement où est-ce qu'il faut qu'il soit. Alors Yannick, je te lance une invitation de venir sur le podcast et on veut savoir. Oui! Es-tu présent quand tu fais ta vaisselle? C'est bien, ça me donne une bonne idée. Prochaine invitée. Yannick, je t'envoie un courriel aujourd'hui alors

puis tu viens de mentionner quelque chose d'important aussi c'est la perfection alors on parle beaucoup de ça comment les musiciens on est perfectionniste des fois je crois que justement quand on pratique sans la vision complète dans le studio

on arrive sur scène et on s'attend à être capable de reproduire la perfection alors que et puis moi aussi je suis coupable de ça Mais il faudrait que ça soit le contraire où on fait, comme tu dis, dans la salle de pratique, on n'a pas peur d'essayer toutes sortes de choses, de pousser. Et une fois rendu sur scène, on oublie tout ça, on se laisse aller. Oui, ou on continue la même façon qu'on faisait dans le studio.

Des fois, si on se pratique à se donner tellement pendant qu'on pratique seul, Maybe I would like to get to the point where there is not really a difference. It's just that every time I take my instrument, it's the intention that comes out. For the public, but also for the composer. Especially for the composer, because we are just a medium or a channel. We are accessories. I remember Leonidas Cavacas, who said that if he could not have his name on the programs, it was just, let's say, marked Chaconne de Bac. For him, it would be really preferable. But

there, we are talking about one of the greatest megastars of verbiage, of Hollywood, of classical music. It's a bit paradoxical, but in any case, for me, that's perfection. It's not playing quelque chose sans erreur. C'est d'être le canal parfait du compositeur jusqu'au public, puis d'être là à 100% pour cet acte-là. Ah, tout à fait, tout à fait. Marina, je pourrais jaser avec toi toute la journée et j'espère qu'on va avoir l'occasion de faire ça en personne bientôt. Mais avant qu'on se quitte, est-ce qu'il y a un message que tu aimerais envoyer aux élèves d'aujourd'hui ou aux jeunes qui sont en début de carrière? Peu importe, Ça peut être à propos de n'importe quoi, la pratique ou les outils qu'il faut acquérir

ou ce à quoi s'attendre sur la scène professionnelle. Qu'est-ce que tu aimerais envoyer comme message à ces jeunes-là qui sont soit encore aux études ou en début de carrière? Quelque chose que j'ai vu récemment, depuis que j'ai commencé à enseigner à des élèves à l'université, je trouve qu'une des maladies générales, c'est le manque de questionnement. puis l'attente vers les réponses un peu préparées, pré-emballées. Donc, moi, ce que je souhaite à moi-même et aux autres et aux futures générations, c'est de se poser plus de questions, autant sur pourquoi jouer de la musique?

Pourquoi aller pratiquer maintenant? Ensuite, bien, pourquoi faire ce coup d'archet-là qui est écrit, ou pourquoi acheter leur texte si, finalement, on change tous les coups d'archet, tous les doigtés? Donc, c'est vraiment de savoir pourquoi on fait les choses, pourquoi on prend certaines décisions, savoir pourquoi on va les changer plus tard. Puis ensuite, bien sûr, pourquoi jouer de la musique pour les autres? À À quoi ça sert de jouer ce programme-là dans cette série-là? À quoi ça sert d'enregistrer ce disque-là? Je pense que ces questionnements-là,

ça va vraiment nous aider à forger le futur de la musique classique qui est très traditionnelle, puis dans le fond, de le forger tout le monde ensemble. Ah, wow! La seule chose que je peux dire à ça, c'est « Amen! » Bien, on essaye. Oui, tout à fait. Mais en tout cas, moi, j'ai des belles choses à dire sur pourquoi ce podcast.

Je pourrais continuer. Je pourrais donner mille raisons. Merci beaucoup. Quelle belle contribution. Merci. Marina, j'apprécie beaucoup que tu aies pris le temps de discuter avec moi aussi longtemps aujourd'hui. Je trouve que tu es une artiste, je l'ai dit plusieurs fois, je vais le redire encore, complètement authentique

et quelqu'un qui vraiment nous fait porter attention avec un enthousiasme contagieux. Tu m'inspires beaucoup et je suis certaine que tu vas continuer de m'inspirer dans les années qui vont suivre. Merci beaucoup. Merci pour cette belle

discussion. J'ai le cœur rempli d'inspiration moi aussi puis j'ai le goût d'aller pratiquer mais de partager avec les autres. Merci. Thank you. Marina, I'm going to put links in the notes of the episode with your CD, your CAD, your website, all the information where we can find you and have more information about your career. And then maybe even little links with YouTube videos that I like about your game. So thank you again. Thank you. Thanks for watching!