The Mind Over Finger Podcast - 014 Kaveh Rastegar: Hands-on Creative Practice & Music-Making

Episode Date: December 7, 2018

This episode shows a different type of musical journey and approach to music-making outside of the classical world! I speak with bass player Kaveh Rastegar about his journey building a successful and varied international career, and his hands-on approach to creating music and to practicing. Kaveh is highly on-demand in the LA scene and collaborates with some of today's most popular artists like CeeLo Green and Bruno mars. Kaveh has a fascinating background, playing a wide range of genres, from classical to reggae and punk rock. He is a member of the Grammy nominated band Kneebody and is currently on tour with singer John Legend. His story is a great reminder, especially for those at the starting stages, that a musical career is not just about big gestures and big decisions. It's built with the succession of little events that might seem inconspicuous at first, but end up adding up and can lead us to so many great opportunities and accomplishments. Whether it's a chance meeting, a conversation, or being exposed to something new - all of this can open a world of new possibilities. Later in the episode, Kaveh delivers inspiring insight on how to continue growing after college, going after your dreams, and keeping your enthusiasm and spark for music alive. Get ready to be inspired by Kaveh's story! He elaborates on: His story, from growing up in Colorado and learning to play by ear, to attending Eastman, and playing in the biggest stages in the world How he was exposed to an incredibly wide range of music growing up and how that shaped him How he came to choose the bass The different things he learned from the many genres and experiences he had as a young musician How he started playing gigs around his hometown and how that created the basis for the many strong connections and friendships that deeply influenced his career His experience at Eastman How practice becomes different after school – how we need to seek out teachers and seek our own answers How his practice today involves a mix of methodical exercises and creative experimenting His creation process, involving collaboration with friends and artists he admires, improvisation, and experimentation How easy it is to start comparing ourselves and how it is important to celebrate all the small victories How important it is to set goals     ALL ABOUT KAVEH: Website: http://kavehrastegar.com/home.html His discography: https://www.discogs.com/artist/538980-Kaveh-Rastegar YouTube Light of Love: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIgWIgmC_t8 Facebook page : https://www.facebook.com/kavehrastegarmusician/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kavehrastegar/?hl=en Twitter: https://twitter.com/kavehrastegar   Kaveh Rastegar is a Grammy nominated Electric and Upright bassist. In the years since moving to Los Angeles, California from Rochester New York where he graduated from the Eastman School of Music, Kaveh has enjoyed success playing, writing and recording music for a wide array of artists, projects and films.  Kaveh is a founding member of the Grammy Nominated Jazz quintet Kneebody. Kneebody has toured the world and recorded a number of albums. Most recently they have signed to Concord records and have toured Australia, Japan, Europe and the States in support of their new album "The Line".  Kaveh is also bassist for acclaimed singer songwriter John Legend and has accompanied him on tours worldwide since the summer of 2014. Kaveh is also bassist and musical director for singer and smash songwriter Sia.  As a writer, in addition to his own songs and music for Kneebody, Kaveh has written songs with other artists such as Bruno Mars, Cee Lo Green, Kimbra, Meshell Ndegeocello, De La Soul and others. His song "Conviction" co written with Meshell Ndegeocello was chosen as the lead single from her latest release "Comet Come To Me".  Kaveh was recognized in the 2010, 2011 , and 2012 Downbeat Magazine Readers Polls and the 2015 Critics Poll for Electric Bass.  Kaveh is also a member of the Seattle based power trio THRUSTER! featuring guitarist Timothy Young and drummer Matt Chamberlain. A founding member of 70 piece hip hop orchestra Dakah, Kaveh has also recorded and played with Cee Lo Green, Bruno Mars, Sia, John Legend, Kimbra, De La Soul, Luciano Ligabue, Laura Pausini, The Ditty Bops, Colin Hay, Beck, Jesca Hoop, Nels Cline, Sam Sparro, Esthero, Noemi, Giusy Ferreri, Antibalas Afro Beat Orchestra, Joshua Radin, Melissa Ferrick, guitarist Arik Marshall, Keaton Simons, Greg Kurstin's Action Figure Party, The Calling, Dave Fiuczynski, Carla Bozulich and Wayne Horvitz. Kaveh is also endorsed by Aguilar Amplification, GHS Strings, Tonecraft Audio and Roland/Boss Pedals.    If you enjoyed the show, please leave a review on iTunes!  I truly appreciate your support! Visit www.mindoverfinger.com for information about past and future podcasts, and for more resources on mindful practice.   THANK YOU: Most sincere thank you to composer Jim Stephenson who graciously provided the show's musical theme!  Concerto #1 for Trumpet and Chamber Orchestra – Movement 2: Allegro con Brio, performed by Jeffrey Work, trumpet, and the Lake Forest Symphony, conducted by Jim Stephenson. Also a huge thank you to my producer, Bella Kelly!   MIND OVER FINGER: www.mindoverfinger.com https://www.facebook.com/mindoverfinger/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/mindoverfingertribe/     (As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases, which helps cover some of the costs associated with the production of the podcast.  Thank you for your support.)

You're listening to the Mind Over Finger Podcast, episode number 14. Welcome to the Mind Over Finger Podcast, discussions on mindful music making, efficient practice, and building a purposeful career. And now, your host, Dr. Renée Paul Gaultier. Hi, everyone. Today's episode shows a different type of musical journey and approach to music making outside of the classical world. I speak with Kaveh Rastegar, a bass player who's highly on the mend in the LA scene and collaborates with some of today's most popular artists like CeeLo Green and Bruno Mars. Kaveh has a fascinating background, playing a wide range of genres from

classical to reggae and punk rock. He is a member of the Grammy-nominated band Knee Body and is currently on tour with singer John Legend. We had a great talk about his journey building a successful and varied international career and about his hands-on approach to creating music and to practicing. It was really interesting to hear about his story and see it unfold. I think it's a great reminder, especially for those at the starting stages, that a musical career is not just about big gestures and big decision. It's built with the succession of all of those little events that might seem inconspicuous at first, but end up adding up and leading us to so many great opportunities and accomplishments.

Could be a chance meeting, a conversation, being exposed to something new. All of this can open up a world of new possibilities. Later in the episode, Kavi has really inspiring insight on how to continue growing after college, going after your dreams, and keeping your enthusiasm and spark for music alive. Get ready to be inspired by Kaveh's story, and let's get to the show. Kaveh Rastegar, I'm so, so happy to have you here today. Oh, Renee, what a pleasure. It's great to hear your voice, and it's great to get to do this. you and I went to Eastman together and you were a jazz major and I have to say your final recital

was one of the highlights of my time in Rochester there was so much artistry going on that night and so much enthusiasm and the collaboration and really incredible night that means so much and and yeah that was a really special night it was such a quick time that I had at Eastman you know I was only there for two years but such you know just those two years left such a huge mark on my life so yeah thanks thanks for saying that Kaveh I'm a classical musician through and through and my listeners consist of classical musicians mostly but I really wanted to have you on the show because to use that word again artistry I feel really transcends all musical genres like truly all art forms actually and I'm always so inspired by your music and by watching your creative

projects unfold and I feel like there's so much to be learned from you and you have a really great story, starting in Colorado, ending in LA via the whole world. And I'd love for the listeners to hear about you and your musical journey in your own words. So can you please tell us a little bit more about how you got to where you are and how your artistic path has unfolded? Sure. I grew up in Denver, Colorado. You know, I'm an only child. My parents are not and they were not musicians, but they were very, they were very open to the arts. My dad is an immigrant from Iran. And he met my mom haphazardly. They were both working a job together. And then early on, when I was about three years old, the three of us moved to Denver, Colorado. And I grew up out

there. There was always music playing in the house, like the two of them. They were really just into arts and culture and kind of the counterculture at the time, the 70s. They split up when i was really young when i was about five years old but they you know i would go back and forth between households and there was always music playing in the house so my dad had a massive record collection of um you know just really everything a lot of you know american blues like freddie king muddy waters james cotton bb king to rock and roll like the rolling stones the Beatles and reggae a lot of like Peter Tosh Jimmy Cliff and soul music like Roberta Flack and Stevie Wonder that kind of music was just always playing in the house growing up and then with my

mom it was a similar or you know she had her taste in music which would be like Joni Mitchell and Joan Arma trading and and then in the 80s it'd be like Kate Bush and the police Peter Gabriel And she became involved with a man who I kind of call my stepfather. They got together and they were there together for a good part of my childhood. And he his name is Mike Johnson. He's a fantastic guitar player and composer. And he, you know, he has a band to this day called Thinking Plague. It's like kind of like an art rock band, you know, just really incredibly like detailed

and intense music that he that he makes. So it was pretty great to be around, you know, growing up and hearing him like, you know, go to rehearsals and recording sessions and gigs and hearing him practice and compose and stuff so that was always that was pretty formative and then you know there's tons of music playing in the house his music would range from all of that stuff like kate bush and you know all the music that was coming out at the time and then he was also really into 20th century classical music he really loved aaron copeland and shostakovich and prokofiev and the whole the planets was always playing and So, you know, just some like epic music was always playing in the house.

That's a good mix. Yeah, it was a big mix, you know, so I grew up around all that stuff. And so I started playing music when I was nine years old in school band, like a lot of people got to. And my dad, the joke with a lot of Persian parents is that you could be whatever you want to be when you grow up. You can be either a doctor or a lawyer. And my dad really, he doesn't follow that mold at all. He was a real hippie, and he was just really enamored with the arts and music and culture and film. He wanted me to become a jazz musician, which is really funny to me, looking back on it.

It's like, that's a funny thing to want for your kid. It's a wonderful life, you know? It's a wonderful life playing music, but it's just a strange thing to wish for your kid. I mean, if I can be honest, you know, it's just like, it's not the easiest life. But if you love it, you don't even think about it. But anyway, so he was like, yeah, you got to play saxophone. Like, man, you know, he loved like Dexter Gordon. And he was just really, he loved the saxophone.

And he was like, you got to play the saxophone. And so I started playing sax in school band. And I loved that whole idea of an instrument, you know, like just having this shiny instrument that I could learn. I was pretty good at the sax, but I never had a real drive beyond my daily dose of practicing to kind of just take it another step. and i guess right about the time i was 11 i started really getting into my own kind of music and really getting into you know just started developing my taste not really that really like veered towards like american punk rock music and and also punk like the sex pistols and the dead kennedys the misfits bad brains social distortion and fear suicidal tendencies all these bands that

had a really aggressive side to them but there was also so much art there there was so much expression there was so much pure energy in this music and then what i really noticed with a lot of these bands is the way that the music would be like charging along and then all of a sudden it would stop and you would hear this like thundering instrument that the bass a lot of times would be you know continue playing a bass line it would be this fierce brutal wonderful sound and i was really attracted to that sound. I just loved that. I loved that function. And I also listened to a lot of reggae too. I listened nonstop to this album, Wanted, Dreaded, and Alive. That's by Peter Tosh. And the bass player on that record is Robbie Shakespeare. And the bass playing on

that album is just wonderful. And so I was, you know, I guess my ears kind of perked up towards that instrument. And then The Cure came out with an album called Disintegration. And there's a song called fascination street and the bass line is just so it's so great to this day it's like it's really kind of turns your ear towards it and that was it like i found an old guitar in the house that had been in the closet for years and i remembered picking up the guitar and kind of like a neanderthal like with one finger you know with my left hand just kind of finding the note and oh there it is you know and you find that note and then you know not thinking about intervals just finding the second note and then you know just kind of strumming out the rhythm with my

right hand and playing that all on one string you know just all vertically and that was so empowering i remember i remember and you know i broke the string on the guitar probably like probably like a month you know a month later that guitar was useless to me because i didn't know how to change the strings and and i guess it was 14th birthday yeah 14th birthday my mom bought a bass for me for $50. And it was just on, I was gone into that thing. It was a it was a 70s music Fender Music Master. And I just took off, all I would do is just like, hold it and play and make sounds and pick up things and look at the way that people held their hands on the instrument. And I just kind of took off from there. And it would start like picking out things on albums,

and, you know, learning bass lines to, you know, the bad brains or whoever it was. And I just started getting together with kids in my high school. There was a couple of kids that were just playing music. They were already playing the blues and playing a lot of rock tunes. They were a couple of years older than me. And they kind of took me under their wing. They started showing me how to play the blues so that they could take off and solo. And I'd play a 12-bar blues bass line behind them. I would play all those bass lines. And I just really looked up to these two kids, these two older guitar players. And I was

like a puppy dog like i would like learn everything that they were playing and then i would show up and they actually had a bass player already and i ended up getting the gig and really like i've talked about this stuff like my story before you know you you probably have a lot of young listeners or a lot of students and just really anybody who wants to do something like i really wish this feeling that that feeling at that moment is truly what propelled me into the next phase into the next phase after that and into the next phase after that and that initial feeling of a victory of oh wow like i'm i'm able to pick out this little song you know that i heard on the radio and then oh i get to play with these guys like the coolest musicians i've ever even heard you know

and they want to play with me oh my goodness those little victories it was kind of like a naivete in a way i didn't think too much further beyond that moment and i just enjoyed it so much and i just really enjoyed the feeling of getting to play with these people. You know, one of the mission of of what I do with Mind Over Finger is mindful practice. And one of the mindset that I talk a lot about with my students is related to what you were just talking about to keep this awe and this curiosity. So I always talk to them about this beginner's mind, the beginner who's always so enthusiastic to discover new things and really this insatiable curiosity about learning more and discovering more on the instrument.

So I love everything that you just said about that. Thank God you're doing that. And thank God you're like tapping into that because jumping ahead away from my development, like I think that at a certain point in your career, you need all musicians and especially classical musicians like yourself, you all need to really develop your technique.

I mean, there's no way around that. You've got to do the hours and the days and the years that it takes to kind of just get to that level where you can just really perform at that high level. But we don't always remember that, like, you know, just finding that spark or finding that way to that outlet. I mean, you can get joy out of that, out of that practice and out of that routine and out of that kind of workout, you can get joy out of that.

But then there's, there's also something in that just real discovery that's, that's nice to take, you know, take into account. For sure. So these two kids, they moved away, they went to college like you do, you know, I remember being in 10th grade and just being like oh no like my whole music my musical network has vanished these two guys are gone you know and i was like now what you know i was just playing all the time just really jumping into the bass at that time if you were an electric bass player in the early 90s you could not avoid the red hot chili peppers and and the sound that flea brought to the instrument

Flea was king. Flea was king. There's no better ambassador for the bass than that man right there. You know, he had so much enthusiasm and still does to this day. And also so much passion for music. He was one of those role models in the way of like, he played so great. But Flea was one of those guys that was like, you know what? There is so much beauty in the Red Hot Chili Peppers, in Public Enemy, in Beethoven.

You know, it's like there's that primal sound that's inside of music, but it doesn't need the trappings of a style. And for a young teenager, that's just the best thing to hear, I think, is that kind of openness to everything and just fascination with everything. What ended up happening for me, and it was a day that changed my life, was it was the summer before 11th grade, and I was 15 years old. And I went with my friends to a music concert in Denver, where I was growing up. And it was a local band kind of show where there was like maybe four or five bands playing in a park. And then this band came up, and man, they sounded good. They were called the Psychedelic Zombies. I'm sorry. I think Thinking Plague is a better name, but Psychedelic Zombies, not bad. Thinking Plague, exactly. Got to come up with a name.

Why not just shoot for the stars? Yeah, so they were great. They were just great and like kind of magnetic people. And so like a week later, I was at a show and I went inside to the show and then I saw the singer, you know, from the band. I walked up to him and I was like, man, I love your band. I saw you last week. And I was like, hey, I'm a bass player. Like, you know, do you know any guitar players? And he kind of pawned me off. He was just like, yeah, you know, like he was actually really nice. He ended up giving me

his number. And, you know, something about what I said must have convinced him that I wasn't like psycho or anything. And he and I became really good friends. And he introduced me to a drummer who was in another high school that needed a bass player and that drummer became you know one of my dearest friends who you know played on my record that I just put out a couple months ago and and the guitar player for the zombies is Josh Lopez who you know we wrote a song with Bruno Mars we've written songs with you know CeeLo Green and Sierra and De La Soul we've co-produced De La Soul's last record a couple years ago and and the double bass that I'm playing right now on tour with John legend and i played in my recital at eastman that was josh's dad's bait so i just kind of fell in

with these guys and they were great and we were all we all became best friends and we would go camping together we go out together we you know we i'd camp out at their you know house when they'd have band practice and soak up everything and then i became the bass player in all of their offshoot bands you know like their bass player was the singer of my band and you know like it was it was the scene in denver where it was just so lucky to be in the city where it's like we're 16 years old and we're playing for like 400 kids in a club and people are stage diving and the band sound good and it was just a really really fun time and again it was like there's that feeling of you can do this it's not abstract yeah okay we have rehearsal on thursday and the gigs on saturday

it's not like what is music like where did where's my place you know it just it just clicked and it felt like a real, it just kind of came together. And then kind of from there, like things really kind of took off. The horn players in those bands were really into jazz. And I just kind of started playing a lot in the Denver area. I became a bass player of, you know, just a lot of different groups in Denver. There was a salsa band that I was a part of and a reggae band. And this is all before I went to college. That kind of, you know, went on from there. And how did you go from there to Eastman yeah so you know I was in high school I was playing with all those guys in different bands and when I graduated high school when I was 17 you know then like the typical thing is like

you go straight to college from high school and again like my you know my parents didn't really fit that mold of like gotta go to this type of school right away and they kind of they saw that I was really into music and I had a little amount of success like within like the small community there in Denver I was accepted to NYU out of high school and I did a deferred acceptance like I took a year off and I kind of in that time kind of dove into playing music in Denver well I actually I moved to Montreal for a short amount of time and I played saxophone in a reggae band out there yeah I took some lessons like my first real lessons this bass player in Montreal named George Mitchell when I was 17 and I remember that was really eye-opening and kind of you know

wonderful yeah I moved back to Denver and uh just jumped into playing in the bands with all of you know all my friends back in Denver and uh the one year of deferment turned into two years because I'd started making a living playing music I started playing in groups and you know making enough money to support myself you know just playing gigs around town and there you could play up and you could go on little tours through the mountains and like play all the resorts and you know in this reggae band i was in and i was in a salsa band we were just playing a bunch and you know making to me seemed like plenty of money and again that was just that kind of attitude of like man are you kidding me this is great there's no sense of like you know is this really a career

or like anything like that it was just like no no this is great this is killing and at that point I had had this band. I had met Shane Inslee and we had started this band together. I met Shane. He was like one of the most incredible musicians I had ever heard. And we were the same age and he was so good. He's a trumpet player and he was going to school at that point up at CU. And I heard him at a jam session in a cafe and I was like, Jesus, this guy's good. We really hit it off. And we started, I had a weekly gig up in Boulder that he came and sat in on. And we just became really close friends and we started a band together. And again, Denver was such a small city and had a real vibrant music scene. We started opening for the touring bands like Medesky

Martin and Wood would come through Denver and we would open or The Roots came through Denver and we opened for The Roots. And the band was so much fun. There was so much creativity and I was just so challenged getting to play with Shane and some of these other musicians. And I also had this feeling of when we were playing all of my music I was writing a lot at that point and so that was this feeling of whoa like this is just super fun and I'm kind of creating this music and there's a little bit of an audience at this point I guess we were just we were just turned 19 and he was at CU in Boulder and he was transferring to Eastman he was just like man there's a school I'm going to in Rochester called Eastman School of Music and I was like what's that I had never heard of

used to me before and um he's like oh man it's it's great there's this guy ralph alessi who's there he's a fantastic trumpet player and talking about that and and he you know he's transferring there and at that point i had decided to start going to college i was just like if i don't go if i don't go to school this fall i'm never gonna go i'm already you know just doing stuff and just kind of like you know if i if i don't go this year i'm not gonna go so i started and i started at a state school in Colorado, which was super cheap. It was University of Northern Colorado and it was really affordable. And I could, you know, just kind of jump in there and I didn't play upright bass. I didn't play the double bass. And so they didn't accept me as a bass player because they

didn't accept electric bass as like a major. And so I got in there as a singer. That was not expecting that i know that was my way in i sang in the glee club i was a bass singer in glee club and um yeah it was great you know so i started playing double bass and i started lessons when i was 19 i was just like okay here we go and i remember i quit all the bands i was in in denver just to focus on school and i remember it was the week before school started and i played at red rocks with the reggae band that i was in it was like you know this huge beautiful place to get to play and um and then i was just like that's it i you know i retire from the reggae band like i'm gonna go to college and then yeah i went to school and it was just like i had the samandal book and

i started with the french bow and my hands are just massive and the french bow didn't really I didn't really adhere to the grip and then my teacher James Vaughn was just like you might want to consider a German bow and I just kind of took off from there and I still stayed in touch with Shane I was just like man like I just love playing with him so much and so all I was doing was like practicing and I remember my dad was just like what's you know what's college like and I was just like well I can eat whatever I want because you know before I would just you know buy my own groceries it was kind of a hustle to like make money or whatever I was like I eat whatever I want and then all I have to do is practice it's amazing it's insane it's so cool and then you

know so yeah that's that's what that first year it was like in school and then that summer rolled around and Shane came back from Eastman he came back from his first year of Eastman and he came back with this other trumpet player from Eastman who played trumpet and piano his name's Ben Kibbe and Ben was so cool and and Shane again you know Shane's an amazing trumpet player an amazing drummer and so that summer we started a trio and we played almost every day and we and we booked little gigs I had like a weekly gig at this bar and just getting to be around these guys they were just so good and it was so much fun again it was just like that feeling of like whoa like this is like my tribe like I found the people I want to play with and they liked me a lot and

they were like man you gotta come to it and i was like i've only been playing upright bass for one year i was like how the hell am i gonna get in there and that was my goal like that was it i was just like i gotta go there and um i remember that's all i did that year it was just like practiced i took i started taking lessons from this guy ken harper who was the associate principal bassist in the Colorado Symphony and so I was taking from James Vaughn at UNC and then also from Ken and then just playing as much as I could and I was just so behind you know all the other bass players of my age that were looking to go to Eastman but yeah that following spring I auditioned and I got in and then that was really it like I just remember it was just so exciting like you

know just and then just like heading out to rochester and you know just meeting all those freaks eastman was like i mean you probably remember i always tell people like those years there it was like it was kind of like when um like you know in harry potter when like he's like a wizard and then he goes to the wizard school and he's just like oh my god there's people like me yes you know or like they're just like people that are freakier than than i am like what the people there especially in those years they were all just so unique in terms of like personalities they're just such fully formed personalities and they were all so amazing at what they did like there's you and then there was you know jank you know this amazing composer from turkey and there

is you know eric biondo who's this incredible trumpet player and just the most insanely wonderful personality and chris fatolaro nabate aisles and well it's like you said earlier it's like you find this tribe of people that you really relate with. Yes. Yeah, that's really what it was like there. And it was super challenging for me, because I was always, you know, like, I look back on it, like, I really could have used more time there, just because I was so busy playing catch up. Like, I remember coming to my audition and just hearing Brett Shurtleff, who is now I think he's like the principal bassist with Buffalo. But I remember he was 18 years old. And it was just like was like a wizard on the base that guy it was just so it was so wonderful it was like wow

like you're incredible you know I could have I definitely could have used more time there because I was trying to finish in two years I remember I was taking like 22 credits per semester you know it was just like you know way too much and you know Eastman I remember people would really kind of lament the fact that it was so academic there because rather than getting to practice more you're just spending a lot of time like writing a paper on like a Bartok string quartet and I mean that's cool it's cool to get to do that but it was also like it would take you know there's only so many hours in the day you need a lot of coffee from javas yes constant constant javas and you know one thing I'm really fascinated about because mindful practice is my

whole thing it's really something I'm passionate about and I'm always so fascinated by how people practice. Can you talk to us a little bit about that? You know, I mean, from your story, we're seeing that you're such a multifaceted artist, as you told us, you know, you're not, you have this background, it's so rich in both experience and a wide knowledge of all of these different genres. And you're not just a performer, but you're a creator and again, a multitude of styles. And I'd like to take a look at these angles, the practice, this performance. And later, I'd like to talk about the creation process, because I feel that classically trained musicians like myself, you know, with no jazz or improv and very little cross-genre experiences, we can learn so much

from these other genres and these mindsets and how artists of all backgrounds and all medias approach their craft and their art. Can you talk to us a little bit about how you approach practicing through these different stages of your musical path? I know that in the storyline, We're still at Eastman, but maybe we could use the practicing line to make it all the way to today. Like how the way you work on your instrument has evolved from before college, once at Eastman, and how it was after college and to today. Right. Yeah, I remember hearing Ralph Alessi say that. And for those of you who don't know, Ralph is just one of, you know, one of the best trumpet players in the world. And he's just an incredible, incredible musician.

And he said that he didn't really learn how to practice until he was in his late 20s. And, you know, by that point, he was already just a phenomenal musician. But I remember that really stuck with me, like that whole idea of I think there's a lot of time when you're kind of just doing what your teacher wants you to do for the next lesson. Yes, yes. Yeah. And that's, it's important, you know, that your teacher has like, you know, the experience and the, you know, the kind of framework to just kind of give you what you need to get to the level, which is basically, you know, like this next level of etudes, this next level of ability. And so, you know, it's easy to get kind of caught up in that and, and just look at that. But, you know, for me, when I was in when I was in college, like my practicing was just desperate. For me, it was like trying to climb El Capitan, never having climbed any sort of mountain at all. Like, it was just like, like, how do you do this? I just always felt, felt behind, but I was like, you know, I was loving it. I was loving that, that challenge of just, you know, got to get through this thing so I can get to play my jury,

which is playing Vivaldi in front of these people. I mean, I don't know what I'm doing. Okay. You know, here we go. And yeah, so, you know, it was the, you know, the professor James Van Mark at Eastman was super, it was very, very patient. And he was also wonderful teacher because he really met me like i think all good teachers really meet your they meet the students where they are in their development yes and they're able to like have the wisdom and like the distance to in perspective to just see what people can become and kind of encourage them in that way and i remember he really was encouraging there was never any sense that oh my god you are so dreadfully behind like all these other guys what in the hell are you gonna do he was so fascinated with my

background and he was just like oh man you're already doing stuff like you already are plugged into a network let's just give you all the stuff to do don't worry about it like let's just keep plugging along and he was just so open to my journey like you're all working from the same books you're all working from the same method books and doing the same repertoire but you all have different journeys yeah so I really you know I'm really thankful for him and so yeah so I was doing a lot of that kind of practice like just you know samandal book one and then samandal book two and first position half position second position third position thumb position you know like all that stuff I was in the jazz program at eastman but I was really focusing on classical practicing

actually like I was just like loved playing in the orchestra I mean man the musicians there was so good and i was like i was listening to you know prokofiev's fifth symphony and then getting to perform it you know with just a great conductor and all that stuff that was so cool yeah and then so like when i got out of school i think that's something that students should really think about you know after school i started this band with my friends and we were called knee body and it's a jazz group and we've been together for about 17 years and have made tons of records and we were nominated for grammy at one point and we've done a lot of stuff and gone over all over the world but like the thing with that band and it was with shane who you know i kind of like my journey to

eastman was really following him one of the things about that band was like the desire for all of us individual musicians is to keep that never-ending framework of always learning like that we really had in college so in that band from day one and it just kind of happened that way it's like the idea behind the band is like everybody in the band writes everybody writes music and we all learn each other's songs by ear in the band so there could be a really complicated nuanced piece of music that would be you know pages long on a score but we have to teach it by ear and learn it by ear and that among other things was like a way that just kind of propelled us into like professional life or helped kind of like move us into professional life but kind of kept that

conservatory mentality going and yeah like that's something that ben wendell talks about a lot he's such a great practicer and he's actually somebody that i would recommend for your podcast he's just he's a phenomenal musician and also just such a such a great methodical practicer and a real goal setter and really mindful about his practicing and um the thing that he talks about and we talk about a lot is like the real practicing really goes down after conservatory like after you get out that's where it's just like you're in professional life and you're like hustling for gigs and you're like hustling to piece it all together and like make a living or whatever it is but you now have the time to just apply this stuff like these piles of etudes and piles of

information that that's been kind of like given to you that you really didn't have the time to absorb when you were in school. And that was something that if I had really known that when I was in school, I would have felt maybe a little less disoriented just getting out of the gates. Because I remember moving to California and being like, okay, now what? Am I done? Yes. I think we all felt that way. Yeah. Am I done with it now? Am I done learning or do I know? It's like, no. No, I'm not. and uh that just starts a whole new chapter and like practicing that's really where it's like oh yeah you don't have a teacher guiding you from week to week and you set your own goals and also

it's really important to to be open to like taking lessons with people and you know maybe taking a teacher for a good six month period or whatever if you want to develop something i really encourage that to anybody and i think it's a time of life too where we feel more entitled to search for the answers ourself and then they become really personal. So we're not looking outside of ourselves as much. We're drawing from our own experience and we're, you know, it's a little bit like a scientific method. You have a theory and you see if it works and then the answer ends up being something that is, I would say, absorbed at a different level than when someone just tells you what to do. Absolutely. Yeah. It takes on more meaning, right? Yeah. Absolutely.

How is practicing these days? Well, these days, there's still elements of what I would do. Like, I think for me, like, I need to do some things that are just kind of methodical. It's like calisthenics or like, so that would be any type of, you know, there's the usual kind of just warm up routines and things that I would do to just get my fingers moving. And that too, that's like, I play the double bass and I also play the electric bass. So there's, you know, like different kinds of exercises and etudes that I'll just either come up with on my own. Like I saw somebody doing something that was really cool and fast or whatever it is, and I'm going to try to come up with my own way of doing that.

But I guess for me, what I like to do, you know, about 10 years ago, I just got into this way of practicing of like learning songs and transcribing them for my instrument and arranging them for my instrument. And it's just kind of learning, learning a song and it could be Beatles song or it could be a, you know, a Michael Jackson song or Stevie Wonder song or something. And, you know, just learning like a song that I have a real connection with, like just something that's, it could be a song that I've just always loved and learning how it goes and then making a, coming up with a way that I could perform it on my own instrument without accompaniment. And that for me has been really fun to do. And it's because I just run against my own limitations, technically. And then just the actual technical limitations of the instrument, you know, providing the harmony and the melody and the rhythm. And, you know, you have to make choices of like, you only have so many fingers and so many notes that you can pick. And what key is this going to be in? Is it going to be in the original key? Or am I going to use some open strings here? You know, things like that. And that's been really, really fun. And that's also transferred into my writing. And it's transferred into my improvising too. you know just in just the way that it's just opened up like new challenges on the bass that you know felt challenging and and has been fun to do you know this is a perfect segue into something i was really curious uh if you still have time to answer a couple questions i really want to hear about your creation process and i know that you you know i i know about knee body

and how you write songs for so many very famous artists, but you came up with your own album a couple months ago, Light of Love, and I was reading a few things about the creation process for this, and it sounds so, you know, it's so foreign to the way a classical music album will come together, so I'd love to hear about that, but it's such a great process.

Can you tell us a little bit about how these songs came together, how that process is? sure yeah that album uh for me it was it was a joyous experience because it kind of covered a lot of ground for me you know i you know in my career i'm just like anybody like you're just kind of known for a certain thing and you're kind of typecast you know like this person works in this genre just because that's where you see that person but then a lot of us as musicians you you have to be open to it but also to make you know to make a living like there's a lot of different like avenues to do it and if you really enjoy it like you know sometimes you can feel like

underrepresented gets just like no like i do this too no i do this too and for me making my album was was a chance to get to showcase a lot of the things that i love and a lot of things i do as well as a lot of my close dear friends who i've been making music with for a long time and um so the writing process for that album for a lot of the songs came through improvising with a drummer and there's two drummers on the album and one of the drummers is chris dave who is you know a very well-known drummer he has his own project and then he also plays with d'angelo and and robert glasper and a lot of great artists and then the other drummer is scott siever who's the drummer that i met when i was 15 that he plays in that band tenacious d right now and also plays

with amy man a lot of great artists but um you know we grew up playing music together things are coming full circle yes yes and you know the one of the guitar players on the record is josh lopez who's in that band the psychedelic zombies and and he went on to play with macy gray and nika costa and and he wrote a song with kanye west and i mean he's just a fantastic artist and so this a lot of the songs were written you know through improvisations and just kind of like playing the bass with the drummer and just kind of I would improvise chord progressions that just felt good and kind of parts that just kind of felt good and it's just like it just needed to feel good and I recorded a lot of those and like I said we were just improvising and there would be like

hours of improvisations and then I later I remember being on a plane going from one gig to another you know sitting with the computer and I would just edit moments of the improvisations like oh from here to here it just sounds so good you know and then i put that in a folder and then from here to here it sounds great oh this is great and then i just pretty soon i had a folder of like 30 ideas that just felt good and then you know eventually i just started talking to some of my singer friends and um well there's one song where i sing the first song i sing that was one of those improvisations with scott and i wrote the lyrics kind of quickly over that song and played the guitars over it and some keyboards. And that's how that first song,

Bad Ideas, came about. And then the other songs, you know, I'd get together with, you know, different singers and kind of scroll through these ideas. Like, do you like this? Does this speak to you? Does this speak to you? Like, oh, yeah, I like this one. And then we just kind of sit and, you know, compose a song over that jam. And just having that limitation was so much fun you know it's kind of like when you're practicing it's like can i play can i play this whole like this sonata only on these two strings yeah you know what i mean like wow like look what that opens up you know like it was just it was a limitation that was really fun it's just like there's a song called roll call and it's with the great writer and artist mike viola that was like

two minutes and 16 seconds of a jam that scott and i did that was so felt so good and towards the end of it he starts you know playing this kind of different kind of like palm motion jazz kind of a thing and then it just kind of gets out of the mood and i just stopped i stopped the tape and that's the only time that you had for the song so that's what mike and i wrote the song over it was just like that two minutes and 16 seconds and it's like that's what you have and then you know and then there's a couple of other songs that i wrote just specifically with the singers like separately from that process and that was um a song called a little too late which is a song that i wrote with becca stevens and um we wrote we wrote the music and we wrote the melody

and we kind of had some of the words and you know in my studio we recorded that and then i sent that to my friend adam levy who's a great great guitar player and also a great songwriter and he came up with a lot of the lyrics for that song and that's a great song i love that song yeah thank you and And then there's another song called Cuento Ilogico, which is a song that I wrote with Gabby Moreno. And Gabby is an amazing artist. And we, you know, again, like we wrote the music and the melody for the song. And then we recorded like a demo at my studio. And then she took it all home.

And she's from Guatemala and writes music in English and in Spanish. And she composed the lyrics over this, you know, the song that we wrote. yeah so that album for me was like a real collaboration i really feel like this is my music in a way but like it's very much a collaborative effort which felt so good to bring out into the world and in a way that was kind of like kind of how my recital felt you know like all those years ago it was just like and you know what the drummer the drummer on my recital was scott the same guy who plays on light of love like he he came out from california and played on my recital oh yeah you know it's it's so it's so wonderful and inspiring speaking with you and by

the way that last song that you mentioned is such an it's one of my favorite the she has such a smooth and and just gorgeous voice and the mood of this song is just really incredible the whole album is incredible i love it thanks renee you know hearing your story is so inspiring because what have you not done in a minute you'll tell me you were also in like a polka band and something But you go from this, I feel like everything that you do is just deeply rooted in this love for music and this curiosity that you have. You really have done it all and you play intimate gigs in the bar. And then the next day you're playing in the arena of tens of thousands of fans for John Legend. Or you played with a group in Italy for a long time.

And your background is so varied and so interesting. And I love hearing about that creation process because it really shows how you can take things to such a deep level when you really take the time to explore and going to sound very tacky, but it's just let your creativity and your voice speak and you let it out. Yeah, well, I mean, I think that we can all get really hung up on second guessing ourselves as far as, you know, what we're capable of doing. And, you know, when it comes to creativity, and, you know, you can spend a lot of time measuring yourself up against your peers or against some of the greats. And you can also measure yourself up against your former self. Sometimes there's all different kinds of things that your mind can, you know, all kinds of tricks that your mind can play. But like, I really, you know, hope for everybody is to have just any sort of little victory and really take it seriously. And that comes from like, kind of a mindfulness, like you're talking about, where it's like, you know, it does sound corny, but write down those goals. I still do that. And, you know, that's great advice, I think, for anybody, like at any point of your career, your musical journey, or your life, like outside of music of just like, what do you want to do? And where do you want to be? write a list of like the most impossible sounding things. Play with such and such an artist or play at this venue or compose. I don't know. I want to compose music for a CD, make my own album, or I want to get to play with this orchestra or whatever it is. Or I want to have a teaching studio and have my own business. Or I want to learn this language. I want to be in this country

or I want to, you know, all that stuff, like write it all down. And there's something about writing it down that when the opportunity comes up, that kind of will lead to that. you've already started creating the tributaries that will lead down that and that'll turn into that river you know like you'll you're already starting that by like just articulating those goals and you know i think you'll be surprised i always am at like oh yeah this is really something that i you know i kind of wanted to do and and it it just doesn't happen until you articulate it somehow yes and it's like i deal with doubt all the time and i think everybody does and i don't think anybody is immune to doubt and you just have to kind of wrestle with it. I love everything

you just said. Kaveh, I could speak with you all day. Me too, Renee. How about a quick round of rapid fire questions before I let you go? Although I say rapid fire question, it's never rapid. Okay. So for the people who are dreaming of a career that resemble yours, can you tell us a little bit about what your life looks like it's a really it's a really busy life um it's it's uh yeah there's just a lot of juggling between projects and um right now right now i play bass with john legend um and i also work you know with our band knee body and then i also write my own music and i also do a lot of producing and co-producing co-writing and and i'm also you know a freelance musician uh I work with a number of composers on film scores and you know just work

on records and just kind of balance those you know professionally that's just really what it is it's like kind of jumping from thing to thing so there's a lot of um right now I'm out on the road with John for almost two months like we're he did a Christmas album so we're doing a Christmas tour and that was like an intense week and a half it's like really intense week and a half of rehearsing last night we had our first show um for it and it's super fun it's a great production and it's a great band and yeah so i'm not on the road right now but i'm also trying to i'm in touch with um different producers that i work with in los angeles writing for different artists and so in my downtime i'm carry really heavy bags with me that have recording equipment and i spend a lot

of time like in hotels like setting up my computer gear and microphones and trying to like you know play bass on songs or like compose songs and send them to people and so you know there's a lot of that kind of stuff going on and um it's frantic and hectic but it's not really that different from how frantic and hectic my life was when i was 17 so for better for worse i kind of prepared myself for it with better hotels yeah exactly better hotels but i mean not not not always though it is what it is carpe can you talk to us about a performance that stayed with you throughout the years performance that stayed with me throughout the years i think there's so many god i remember you know i remember getting to play in italy for the first time getting just to go there um for the

first time and getting to play there with our band knee body was such a great experience because it was like oh my god we're doing this like we're there's an audience here to hear us and we're playing our music and that seems so impossible and getting to do that was like such a really meaningful experience and um and then I went on to play with that artist Luciano Ligabue who is one of the biggest artists out there and we would man like that those concerts would be crazy we would play the big soccer stadiums there and you know that was just really epic and amazing but But yeah, getting to do that kind of stuff is really fun. I played for about six years with Colin Hay, who is the singer for Men at Work.

And he has an amazing solo career. And we got to play a concert. Paul McCartney was there. And he heard our whole set. And we got to all hang out afterwards. That was an amazingly memorable concert. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot, you know, getting to, I don't know, I could go on and on. Like, that could be a separate podcast, I guess.

Yeah. It's a nice portfolio of good memories, sounds like. Yes, there really is. It really is. How about a skill that you think young musicians at the early stage of a career are studying today that they should acquire in addition to learning to play their instrument? I mean, something that's important is just developing your ear, you know, in addition to, you know, practicing, practicing the repertoire, like, you know, reading and, you know, scales and etudes and all that stuff, like really try to learn as much as you can by ear as well. Like, I think that's just, there's nothing more important than that, I think, ultimately, because like, that's just your true gauge of like, how well am I doing? It's like, like, well, how does it sound? Yeah. How about a favorite book? Ooh, um, read East of Eden. Like, that's, that's a good one. Steinbeck.

That's a good one. Yes. And a piece of advice that you would like to pass on to the listeners. A good one is sometimes like, especially if you're a younger musician, you're around a lot of musicians that are just incredibly great. It's just interesting to see how things pan out. Like sometimes like if you're in the room with people that are just like, fantastically good, it can feel overwhelming. And you can feel really, oh, I'm just disheartened. Like I don't, there's, there's so much to do. And I can't really, you know, like I can't get to their level or like they're already there. it but to just not lose sight of the fact that in a lot of ways this this road is really long and you know some of the greatest musicians I know now were not the best in the room back in the day it's just a long road to get to wherever you're going to get to and just focus on your own journey you know it's like it's great to have that kind of competition with other people and just kind of friendly competition of just like you know oh wow like they're doing that I'm doing this but it's like it's really it just kind of boils down to you like where you're at basically hopefully that's

encouraging like because it's just you know you know it's just your own journey so yeah kavi how about a quick actionable tip that listeners can implement today in their musical lives try to learn some music that really speaks to you you know in addition to like everything that you're that you're practicing if you grew up listening to guns and roses like non-stop when you were you know a kid and it was just like and that was just music that was just so passionate to you like oh my god like this music like this song gets me going like i love this song well and now you're you know a violinist like taking auditions and i gotta spend all this time on this bach partita or whatever it is to me there's just so much meaning in learning that like dna music like

learn learn that guns and roses record like learn it on like piano like learn how to sing those songs and like play it on piano like whatever you can do to find like a closer relationship to the music that really moved you when you were young like when you were a kid you know like whatever it was that really spoke to you there's a great bass player his name is bubby lewis and so does thundercat like another great bass player and they play like video game music like they just loved video games growing up and they are just like fantastic virtuosic electric bass players and they play that stuff on the electric bass and it's just like it kind of it just kind of just leads to this other like you know connection to like whatever they just loved as young people

like listening to music you know i don't know i hope i hope that is actionable yes that's really really great because it's so easy to only spend time on what's on the to-do list and that's when you lose the passion that spark that you mentioned early on so this is really a great way to make sure that we stay connected to the reason why we're doing this in the first place thank you for that yes coffee i'm so grateful that you took the time from a busy tour to speak with me i'm gonna put links in the show notes to all of the places where the people can find your website your Instagram and your YouTube videos, and as well as your album. It's such a great album. And speaking with you is so inspiring. And I feel that you brought to me and my listeners so much value

today. I think that it's an important conversation to have, as I was just saying, to remind ourselves to be open-minded and willing to receive ideas from all forms of music making. Thank you so much. Oh, Renee, it's been such a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you guys so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed this chat with Kaveh Rastegar. You can find the show notes for this episode and more information about Kaveh as well as resources on mindful and deliberate practice at mindoverfinger.com. I would love to connect with you and know what your favorite takeaway from today's show

is. So join the conversation on social media. Let me know what inspires you, what specific questions you have about mindful practice and what other topics and guests you would like to hear about in future episodes. I am Mind Over Finger on all platforms. And if you're looking for a community of mindful practice enthusiasts, join the Mind Over Finger tribe at facebook.com slash groups slash Mind Over Finger tribe. There you'll find inspiration, motivation, and support,

as well as information and discussions on how to take your practice to the next level and enjoy the process. next week is the last episode before the holiday break and i'm so excited to be talking to someone who's had a tremendous impact on my performance abilities none other than dr don green if you don't know who dr green is or you do but you've never checked out his work well this might just change everything about the way you prepare for concerts and auditions he is the authority on performance success for musicians he and i discuss performance preparation how to mentally center before performance and recovery strategies and performance. This is a value-packed episode that

you do not want to miss. If you've enjoyed this episode, please take a minute to head over to iTunes to leave a review. It makes a big difference and it's very much appreciated. Again, thank you and à bientôt!