The Mind Over Finger Podcast - 022 David Eby: How Meditation & Consciousness Can Lead to Greater Performance

Episode Date: March 1, 2019

In this episode, I'm really excited to speak with cellist David Eby and to dive deeper with him in a topic that we've only mentioned a few times on the show so far and that I feel is so important and can be extremely powerful in our experience as musicians!  I'm talking about pure mindfulness! We discuss the positive effects meditation and consciousness tools can have on our practice and performance.  Among many things, you will hear about the importance of adopting unprejudiced mindsets, how you can bring more flow and joy in your playing,  develop and effective automatic response mode when facing challenges in performance, and create inspired connection in your playing by accessing a higher consciousness using David's 4-step process. We expand on: Mindfulness and consciousness in our practice - how to use these powerful tools How he got to experience that state of oneness with music in his youth The transition to college and how difficult it was to keep that magic state of being while negotiating the demands and pressures of university How harsh judgment of self and others influenced him and eventually led him to a crisis The pivotal moment that led him to pursue meditation and how it changed his life and brought him back to experience pure joy and love of music again How he studied and explored different consciousness techniques and started incorporating them in concerts, reaching a state of flow in his performance How meditation and consciousness can help us reconnect with the joy and bliss in performance (and, as a result, improve our results) Different methods of meditation How training the mind to return to the breath in meditation is training our brain to focus The automatic response mode that can help us overcome challenges in performance Hush/Heart/Lift/Flow Technique for more inspired connection in performance: o   Hush: create dynamic stillness (inner and outer silence) to better hear and feel subtleties of music o   Heart: deepen intuitive perception - open chest and heart o   Lift: engage energy - creating upward moving energy o   Flow: focus with effortless pleasure     More about David: Website: http://www.davidebymusic.com/ YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/davidceby Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheInspiredMusician/   Biography Cellist, Director, Teacher and Author "Inspiration and music came into my life at age 6 when I announced to my parents that I was going to play the cello. By 16, I was drinking up inspiration from the Tanglewood and Aspen Music Festivals and sharing inspiration onstage as soloist with the Pittsburgh Symphony. I attuned my skills at the Eastman School of Music where I received the Performer's Certificate and BM under the tutelage of Paul Katz of the Cleveland Quartet. By the time I received my MM at Indiana University under the esteemed Janos Starker, my life was resonating unconditionally with the joy of music. My first position as Principal Cellist of the Evansville Philharmonic and the Owensboro Symphony Orchestras taught me about how to share this joy in the context of leadership. As the founding cellist for the musical storytelling troupe Tales & Scales, I helped inspire the imaginations of young audiences across the nation. An introduction to the West Coast awakened within me a profound yearning for the ocean and the mountains, and I arrived in Portland in 1996 to become the founding cellist for the internationally acclaimed band Pink Martini, as well as a cellist for the Portland Opera. By 2001 an inward calling had grown so strong within me that I left everything to become Music Director at the Ananda Village in Northern California, with the singular opportunity to teach and direct a remarkable group of meditators. Each week we explored more deeply the realms of music, consciousness, inspiration, discovering the steps for achieving a consistently inspired performance. We were able to duplicate extraordinary experiences of flow in performance—where time stands still and all that exists is the joy of the music. Hollywood made a dramatic entrance into my life in 2012 when I was asked to musically direct and produce the soundtrack for the film Finding Happiness featuring Elisabeth Rohm (LA Law, American Hustle). Soon thereafter, I arrived back in Portland, where I am currently teaching Workshops for the Inspired Musician, sharing what I have learned through this 18-year journey into music and inspiration. I've sought to capture my experiences of inspiration on recordings, and my discography includes Sympathique with Pink Martini, Mystic Harp 2, Secrets of Love, Relax: Meditations for Flute and Cello, and Song of the Nightingale for Crystal Clarity Publishers, and the Finding Happiness soundtrack for Hansa Productions. I currently perform with The Bodhi Trio, the Oregon Symphony, and Portland Cello Project, teach at Lewis and Clark College, direct the Advanced Strings at Oregon Episcopal School and am a Teaching Artist for the BRAVO Youth Orchestra. I live in Southwest Portland with my wife Madhavi, daughter Caitlin and our Manx cat, Maggie.   If you enjoyed the show, please leave a review on iTunes!  I truly appreciate your support! Visit www.mindoverfinger.com for information about past and future podcasts, and for more resources on mindful practice.   THANK YOU: Most sincere thank you to composer Jim Stephenson who graciously provided the show's musical theme!  Concerto #1 for Trumpet and Chamber Orchestra – Movement 2: Allegro con Brio, performed by Jeffrey Work, trumpet, and the Lake Forest Symphony, conducted by Jim Stephenson. Also a huge thank you to my producer, Bella Kelly!   MIND OVER FINGER: www.mindoverfinger.com https://www.facebook.com/mindoverfinger/ https://www.instagram.com/mindoverfinger/   Join the Mind Over Finger Tribe here!  https://www.facebook.com/groups/mindoverfingertribe/

You're listening to the Mind Over Finger Podcast, episode number 22. Welcome to the Mind Over Finger Podcast, discussions on mindful music making, efficient practice, and building a purposeful career. And now, your host, Dr. Renée Paul Gaultier. Hi, everyone. I hope you enjoyed last week's episode with Dr. Emmanuel Abraham. He had a particularly inspiring story of determination and grit and a very thoughtful approach to mindful and efficient practice. This week, I'm really excited to speak with cellist David Eby and to dive in with him deeper in a topic that we've so far only mentioned a few times in the show

and that I feel is so important and can be extremely powerful in our experiences as musicians. And I'm talking here about meditation and consciousness and the beneficial effects they can have both in the practice room and on stage. David is a graduate of the Eastman School of Music and of Indiana University. For many years, he held positions and performed with several ensembles in the U.S., but a very strong inward calling prompted him to accept a position as music director at the Ananda Village, a spiritual community in Northern California. There, he had the extraordinary opportunity to teach and direct groups of meditators in exploring more deeply the realms of music, consciousness, inspiration, and discovering the steps for achieving a consistently

inspired performance. He currently lives in Portland, Oregon, where he teaches workshops helping musicians of all ages develop effective meditation techniques to manage and enhance practice and performance. In addition to this, he performs with the Bodhi Trio, the Oregon Symphony, and Portland Cello Project. He teaches at the Lewis and Clark College, directs the Advent Strings at Oregon Episcopal School and is a teaching artist for the Bravo Youth Orchestra. In this episode, we discuss the powerful positive effects of meditation and consciousness in our practice and performance. Among many things, you'll hear about the importance of adopting unprejudiced mindsets, how you can bring more flow and joy in your playing,

how to develop an effective automatic response mode when facing challenges in performance, and create inspired connection in your playing by accessing a higher consciousness using David's four-step process. This conversation with David left me completely inspired, and I really hope that you visit his website for additional information on his many techniques and to read his wonderful blog posts about consciousness and performance. Mindfulness and meditation tools can bring so much to our musical life, and I truly hope that you love this conversation as much as I did. Let's go to the show.

David Eby, it's so great to have you on the show. Great to be here. David, I'm really excited to have this chance to talk with you today because so far on the podcast, we've talked about mindful practice, mostly from the angle of being mentally present in the practice room or on stage and focusing on problem solving and efficiency and things of that nature. But with you today, we can really go into the other powerful aspects of mindful practice that are so often neglected completely or maybe not utilized enough. And they're very close to my heart. And I'm talking here about the incredible tools of meditation and consciousness from a broader perspective. I personally find that incorporating these mindsets in my own practice and my teaching has a huge impact on my levels of ease on the instrument and enjoyment, both in practice and in performance. And actually, my doctoral thesis and the model I currently use in my teaching include the mindful mindsets of bare awareness, beginner's mind and self-compassion at their core.

In the intro, I mentioned the wonderful resources available on your website. You have a great blog, great articles, and wonderful YouTube videos. And there are a couple of sentences I really loved in your bio when you talk about your experience teaching at the Ananda Village in California. And you say the following, we explored more deeply the realms of music, consciousness, inspiration, discovering the steps for achieving a consistently inspired performance. We were able to duplicate extraordinary experiences and flow of flow in performance where time stands still and all that exists is the joy of the music. and to me that sounds exactly why someone becomes a musician experiencing that flow and that joy and performance and that so often gets lost in the everyday hustle and bustle and you know gets buried under the the pressure of success or achieving outer goals so i'm really happy that we get to chat with you today about maybe going back to a stronger inner path in terms of musical performance and personal practice. So can we begin with you and your

story? How did you become a musician and how did you find yourself on this path? It all started when I was six years old and my teacher-to-be, Richard Noyes, came to my elementary school with his wife and they demonstrated Suzuki cello and violin. This is in Arlington Heights, a suburb outside of Chicago. And I went home that day and supposedly told my mom, Mom, I want to play the cello. And that was that. I don't remember uttering those words at all, but I do remember just loving the instrument and never, ever wanting to quit. So the cello stuck with me as I moved to Pittsburgh, where I had a fantastic opportunity growing up in a very cultural city that allowed modestly talented people like myself wonderful

opportunities. Fantastic symphony there, which I had the great honor of soloing with when I was 16, and a great youth symphony, which then led me to further experiences, namely Tanglewood and Aspen, where my musical teenage life just burst alive with possibility. And that's where I decided I should really try going into music and seeing what I can do. Because my heart truly experienced that state of oneness, that state of wonder, that state of openness and connection that music so beautifully gives us.

lying under the stars listening to the boston symphony it just doesn't get any better than that and being able to take that sense of magic exploration into college was a really really tricky thing because all of a sudden at the eastman school of music not only was i surrounded by amazing people. But also, I started to get infected. And this infection was called bashing. And bashing is this state of cynicism. It's the state, it's the drawback of being critical. And of course, we're trained to be critical. As classical musicians, we have to look for what's wrong and we have to fix it. That's just part of our everyday existence. But what I didn't realize is that I didn't have to be judgmental about being critical. So being insecure, I started

looking for shortcomings in other people so that I could feel better about my poor little ego that was trying to defend itself and just to stay alive in such a vibrant, successful environment that scene for others, how was I going to survive in this place? So this eventually led to a crisis where 10 years further down the road, where I just had to stop and say, what am I doing? I find myself here in a successful situation playing principal in the Evansville Philharmonic Orchestra and Owensboro Symphony down in Kentucky. And yet I was extremely tied up and not trying to live up to expectations. I had this mind that was just very judgmental, not only on others, but then on myself. And my heart was just clenched up and I could not take a deep breath.

I didn't know what it was like. And so at this point of crisis, my wife comes in and she sees me and she says, you better take a look at your life and walks out the door. But then I said, well, maybe she's right. So we had heard about meditation, but never really known what it was. So I went to the bookstore, and this was back in 96, before Google existed, really, and found the book on meditation that came alive for me, Autobiography of a Yogi by Paramahansa Yogananda. And this book gave me answers to questions I didn't even know I was asking. And as I started to meditate, my playing just evolved by light years. I started to relax. I started to focus. I started to feel more deeply than ever. And I started having these experiences

that took me back to the stage, which again, that love, that joy of music that drew us into the profession, I started having these very, very profound experiences and just had this thrill of, I have to share this with everybody. But first I had to study it more completely. So I decided to move to the Ananda Village in California. And there I got to work with a choir of meditators. And this sounds really strange. Well, what do you do with a choir of meditators? Just sit around and go oh all day but actually we what we do best is sing inspired music so we sing music that allows us to experience it these deeper states of consciousness of joy of love of compassion and being able to incorporate the meditative experience into singing these profound sounds

songs. And after 12 years of study, I was then just on fire to come back up here to Portland, Oregon, and share these with a broader audience. So I do my blog, I perform with my Bodhi trio, and we incorporate meditation not only into our rehearsals, but also into our performances with the audiences. And I offer meditations before performances with the Pacific Youth Choir. And what thrills me is that here we are at an age where every year more and more people are used to the idea of meditation. Whereas when I was growing up, it would have been something unheard of. But I'm able to work with singers before their performances and create this environment of safety, of vulnerability, but of powerful sharing and connection that comes when you allow

the heart to be open, when you allow the body and mind to become still, when you uplift the state of consciousness, when you willingly enter into that state of flow and performance. It's so thrilling to work in these ways with young people and with colleagues who are open to it. David, this is great. Thank you so much for sharing this. I think that hearing your story, it touches point that, you know, it's a point that is so massive in our lives as a performer, this judgmental approach we have when we are trying to have what should be instead what I I think, an objective assessment of what's happening and really shifting this focus to, I think what you said is, you know, sharing and connecting with the audience. And

I think it's so fantastic that you followed your wife's advice because, you know, not everybody answers that call. It's not always the easiest thing to do to dig so deeply when we can just pursue this trajectory of what appears to be maybe more simple or easier. So let's dive into your area of expertise. I'm going to start with a very vague question. So can you talk to us about your work in general? You already mentioned a few aspects of it, but also what you think mindfulness and meditation can bring to practicing and music making? primarily joy and this is something that we all need to reconnect with because if you look around in the classical musical realm you see a lot of unhappy musicians and this is

so sad because here we are supposedly doing what we love to do and for me the meditation and mindfulness allows us to access that rising feeling of energy within us, that sense of joy. And so often it gets shut down by the negative criticism, by that sense of judgment that gets built up. And so that primarily is the goal and the focus is to reconnect with that elemental joy, that elemental happiness and bliss, really, because it goes so much further than happiness, that is the reason for music in society. It's, for me, the music, the role of music is to uplift, is to offer solutions that are so badly needed in today's world. I love that perspective so much and you know I hope that all of my listeners will go on your

website and read some of your blog entries I especially love the last one that you had out recently so much great insight in there and in some of your videos all the links are on your website you discuss dealing with frustration and and building a response mode in performance so you know we we need to learn to still our mind and allow flow can you please speak more to that how can it help us and how do we develop this automatic response mode yes so first of all the really important thing to realize is that critical thinking is absolutely important discrimination is the positive aspect of critical listening, critical thinking. Judgment is the negative aspect. So it is, of course, primary to our progress to be able to see what the problems

are and then to respond accordingly. So now we get to talk about parts of the brain that become active. The limbic system is a part of the brain that is responsible for anger, for fear, and for just primal arousal of any of these kind of basic instincts and behaviors. And so often we get ourselves aligned with that response mode of indignance and just how can this happen and anger and frustration. And the trick of it is, is that we build patterns in our brain that are easily repeatable. So if we've built a pattern of reacting strongly, that is going to happen more and more often. However, if we start to change that pattern of reaction, instead of reacting, if we're able to access parts of our brain to respond

that are more solution oriented. That is what can truly help us and save us in performance when we can respond rather than react. And one of the greatest tools of reforming the brain's response is meditation. When you sit and watch the breath, and the process that I use for meditation is one of watching the breath, because it's a little less daunting than watching the thoughts. But as you watch the breath, you are stilling the mind. And by bringing the focus to the prefrontal cortex of the mind, of the brain, you're able to put the limbic system to sleep, which is so important, because the prefrontal cortex is the area of the brain that is solution conscious that can go immediately to, oh, that happened. What can we do about this? Rather than,

I can't believe that happened. What a stupid mistake. I'm an idiot. We all know how that goes. And that inner critic that we have can become more quiet. It can start to help us out in in responding to all of the challenges that we face and i think developing this ability to break that pattern of anger and frustration is so valuable for you know any musician i know that for me the more i meditate and try to incorporate that in my practice i really feel that that joy that you're talking about and if i focus on the performance uh coming from a place of for me i my my mantra when i i perform is music is coming from a place of love and joy the performance is very different and and yes it's

like you say mistakes happen but i think that because i'm focused on sharing something and and connecting with my audience and i know where it's coming from which is a place of love and joy the what i experience in the performance is different and i also believe strongly that this physically and mentally impacts the performance because i am in the state of relaxation that really just lets the expression i use is it lets the work speaks speak for itself you know um yes yeah this is great and would you say that maybe by meditating more what what course would you say if someone comes to you and say how do i develop this do i start meditating more when and how before the practice before the performance what would you recommend yes so meditation is so

helpful, not only before, but also after, because it's after that we are in the most awakened place. Music evokes response within us in our deepest inner self. And we don't know how to measure this yet, but we all talk about it. That really struck a chord in me. I really resonate with that piece that was really moving. We talk about how energy moves within us, even though we can't look at it, we can't measure it yet, but we know that it's there. So after a performance, it's so thrilling to just take a minute and quiet the body, quiet the mind, and just purely enjoy that state of upliftment. And notice what is happening. How does the heart feel? How does the energy rise in the center of your body? How does the brain feel? Are there any places of awakening?

Is there a feeling, a spark, a presence of joy that's there? So those are the benefits of doing it afterwards. Now, I have to say that meditation is a great thing to practice any part of the day. My practice I do in the early morning and before I go to bed because that's when my mind can be the most still and I've got the most chance, I've got the best chance to be less distracted. so what this does is it gives the body a chance to experience relaxation conscious relaxation for cello playing it is so wonderful because there is no other time in our life where we can sit with our spine straight and our shoulders relaxed and the greatest advantage that we can have as cellists is to have those relaxed shoulders because that allows us to produce

the greatest amount of sound with the least amount of effort. And so I like to recommend at least 15 minutes of practice a day of just allowing the body to experience that state of conscious upward relaxation. And what is your favorite type of meditation? I know there are so many. I like a combination. I kind of mix it up a little bit. I do love Vipassana and I have mantra meditations that I like. And I do also like the gratitude practice or the meta meditation. I'm not as much a lover of guided meditation on a daily basis because I find my brain getting too stimulated, but I do enjoy them once in a while. What is your favorite type of meditation? So mine is a mantra following the breath. So it's really easy for listeners to pick up.

And it's simply on the inhale, you can say, I am, and then on the exhale, peace. And so just watching the breath and allowing it to flow as it will and feeling for the space, the developing space between the breaths and between the thoughts. And this is very difficult to do because the brain wants to be so active. The thoughts want to just barrel in and all the concerns that we have in our upcoming day or the past day just bombard us asking for their attention. But the more you can return the attention to the breath and to the I am and peace, the more that part of the brain goes to sleep.

It says, okay, I can't get his attention. I might as well not even bother. So even though the first few minutes can be so depressingly difficult, after I've been doing this for 20 years and still I sit down and it's a struggle. Those first 10 minutes are an absolute struggle, but I know I've learned over time that if I can be patient with that and just keep returning the mind again and again to the breath, I will overcome that and I will experience a great state of peace. and so there is a corresponding sanskrit mantra that goes along with it which is hong that rhymes with song and then saw s-a-u that can be used and it literally translates to i am spirit which is a really just a wonderful expansive way of thinking about who we truly are it's so true and i think so many people are afraid to try meditation because they feel like

they either need to reach this state quickly and they don't you know they don't understand that it's it's the process itself that's valuable so this state of non-thinking is you know they feel that if they can't achieve that within five minutes it's never going to happen it's the act is in the doing in sitting with the thoughts and and just it doesn't have to be the way we don't have to approach meditation the way we approach practicing an instrument where there's obstacles to overcome constantly and it has to be complicated and difficult right right and one of the complaints that i get a lot is that people will try and they'll say oh my gosh my brain actually got worse. My thoughts just bombarded me even more when I tried to sit down and meditate.

It's not for me. But the truth of the matter is, is that that is a universal experience. There is part of us that is terrified of entering into silence. And that part of us will raise quite a clamorous disagreement and try to get us not to do exactly what we want to do, which is to access that state of inner peace. But once again, when we practice that, and another thing that I like is somebody said, bringing the mind back to the breath is doing a bicep curl in the brain. Every time you bring your attention back, you are practicing focus. And focus is exactly what we need in our musical practice to make that dramatic progress. Hmm. It's so true. David, a theme that I see in your written words and in the recent YouTube videos is this concept of inspired connection. And in one of your latest videos, you talk about a four-step technique, the hush, heart, lift, flow. Can you speak more to that and explain to us how it can be used more specifically by the performer?

I mean, I know we can use it to really establish a great connection with the audience. But can you talk to us, you know, maybe more generally about the technique first and then maybe expand a little bit more on how performers can use this to create a performing state inside of themselves? Absolutely. So after I began to meditate and have these incredible experiences of connection and performance, I started realizing that there were aspects to this that everybody could learn. And the first step, the hush creates that place of dynamic stillness, not a place of dull stillness or sleepy stillness, but a very alert awareness. So bringing, number one, the body into a relaxed state, but also the mind. So any aspect of meditation, any practice of meditation can easily help people to do this. But basically, it's allowing the body to be still.

And for the mind, I like to do a really easy measured breathing exercise where you breathe in for a count, hold the breath for a count, and then exhale for a count. And I do three rounds of this, typically with an audience or with an ensemble as well. And keeping it to maybe like four or seven seconds really helps. That simple act really helps to quiet the body and to bring that state of hush, that state of expectant dynamic stillness, kind of like the silence right before the conductor's downbeat at the symphony. Then the heart is that aspect of empathy, of deep feeling, and of receptivity. So often our obstacles are just the closed nature of the heart.

and one of the challenges we have as performers is learning how to be vulnerable. There's a great interview on Cello Bello with Paul Katz and Yo-Yo Ma where Paul Katz is talking to Yo-Yo Ma about the aspect that he brings to performance which is just that that state of vulnerability, that state of sharing who he is, what he's feeling so profoundly versus hiding behind the notes, you'll sense with some performers that aspect of just wanting to do the notes perfectly and not being willing to share that deeper aspect, that more vulnerable aspect of deep feeling, of deep connection. And so it's so important for us to be willing to share from the heart. And so the simple aspect of sharing from the heart, of engaging the heart, is number one,

simply rolling the shoulders up and back, opening the heart, and then allowing the heart to become more receptive. Have you heard of the HeartMath Institute? No. So they are an institute which studies the electromagnetic field that the heart emanates. And they talk a lot about the heartbeat and the brainwave patterns and being in sync with each other and heart focused breath where you feel like you're bringing breathing in and out from the heart and just that sense of safety that can that we need to establish as musicians of being safe and so we know that sometimes that's not an easy thing sometimes we find ourselves in very intimidating circumstances, whether it's a conductor that is very demanding,

whether it's a teacher that is also very demanding. How do we open our hearts in these kind of a situation? And one of the things that's important to recognize that in performance is completely different than our lessons and our orchestra rehearsals, because we're performing for the audience. That's who we're performing for. We're not performing for a teacher. Well, we could be in juries, which is a whole other situation, or we could be in auditions, which again is a whole different situation. But in performance, we have this opportunity to share from the heart and so that's a crucial aspect so allowing and it again i speak to this more in the articles and some of the videos but awakening that heart response and

that's why feeling after the music is done is so important because that inner experience is so vital to dynamic sharing. So awakening that inner experience in the heart by meditating after a rehearsal, a performance, or just a practice session. And then the lift is all about lifting the energy, creating a positive outlook towards our problems and transforming the inner critic. It's how we deal with the criticism and once again, turning critical listening into discrimination rather than judgment. It's about positivity. It's about looking for the positive rather than dwelling on the negative. All these things that we don't hear a lot about in discussion And oftentimes in our social settings, don't often get emphasized. Typically, we're very easily drawn to talking about the negative. And there's a really interesting aspect of this.

the insula is a part of the brain that loves to dwell in righteous indignation oh i can't either either on ourselves or on other people like for instance for me i spent my 20s bashing other people with my friends because it was so fun it felt so good because the the the brain was producing dopamine and it's just not fair why we have to battle against this It's like the cards are stacked against us because the brain, when we enter into that activity of looking for the negative and dwelling on that and really getting aroused by that, the brain starts putting out dopamine, which, again, gives that short-term feel-good response. and it's of course devastating in the long term for us but in the short term it feeds us with that feel good and so we have to develop these longer rhythm

upward moving positive practices so that's the lift and it's also just as easy as either drawing the hand up the body and lifting the energy. So in my meditation practice, we work a lot on bringing the energy up the spine. I practice a special Kriya Yoga, which works with the breath

and the subtle energy within us that we feel when we're happy. When something happens that brings us joy, we automatically sit up straight and we automatically raise our hands or uplift our head versus the downward flow of energy, which allows us to slump, to exhale heavily, to look down, to feel down. So it's about creating those upward circumstances. I'm giving a lot of information,

but it's, and finally, the state of flow is about entering that state of connection. And when you're in the state of flow. It's not the kind of wishy-washy, oh, I think I'll do this today, or I think I'll do that, just following whims. No, it's about entering into that state of deep connection, that state of willingness to say yes to whatever is happening in the moment, in the performance. Wow, David, there's so much value in what you just shared with us. Thank you so much for it as you were speaking i don't know if uh when you were talking about the the breathing with the heart i don't know if a lot of people listening did the same thing i did which is to actually you know maybe put a hand to their heart and and try it um but i don't know if you

sometimes experience what i experience is that sometimes there's some resistance to trying mindfulness and trying to incorporate meditation because some people feel a little bit you know that it's maybe a little bit out there, it's a little bit woo-woo, but you've shared so many, you know, you've talked to us so much about physiological responses. So my answer to that is always, you know, well, there's so many studies now that prove how the breath helps regulate so many bodily functions related to stress, related to focus and related to efficiency. And, you know, you talk about opening the shoulders and lifting the energy. What's an answer you give to people that might have some resistance to trying those things? The same exact things that you just spoke

of. The brain is changeable and meditation is such a powerful tool to elicit positive change for us that we can use to our advantage. Another is just try it. Try the experiment of watching the breath, not just for three minutes, but give it a chance to have an effect. And if it doesn't work, then it doesn't work. And you will have tried it. And you can say that I tried it for half an hour, for three weeks, and it did nothing for me. I have yet to meet one of those people. And for me, I've had the experience of living in community with people who have been meditating for 50 years. And let me tell you, these people are amazing human beings. And of course, we were all are normal people when we started to meditate but to see the transformation that happens is just

amazing and that's what keeps me going day after day and that's what i would tell people to try it david this is a conversation i wish we could continue and i hope we will either in person or maybe even even by having you again on the podcast in the future but uh before i let you go how about a round of rapid fire questions great so you know for the people who are curious about your life and your career can you tell us a little bit about what it looks like i spend a lot of my time teaching i've got uh 50 private students i work with a class of different classes of beginning cellists as well as advanced instrumentalists I work with a choir of meditators up here in Portland, and I have my Bodhi Trio.

So it's a lot of busyness, and my practice time is so valuable that I have to use what I've learned to be incredibly productive in a very small amount of time. So I do have my meditation practice of about an hour, hour and a half a day that I use, but it's not a waste of time because that gives me the opportunity to focus and to relax my body to become extremely efficient in the practice time that I have. Right. You carry this with you in all of the activities that you have. Absolutely. David, we talked about mindsets and mindfulness today. Are there any other skills you think young musicians studying today should acquire in addition to learning to play their instruments?

absolutely in fact improvisation saying yes and because as you do that you're activating that part of the brain which is solution oriented so often for so many years i was like no that won't work before even trying it whether it was an ensemble or something a teacher would say And I'm so humbled by how I started out and where I am today, because I was so negative 20 years ago. And the improvisation that I learned musically allowed me to have the ability to just say yes within not only musical environments, but also life environments. So learn how to improvise. It also just frees one up and out of the straitjacket that classical music can so often conscribe us.

I really like that. And it looks as though having meaning in each performance is a big part of your journey. But is there a performance in particular that has stayed with you throughout the years? And why is that? Yes, it was the very first one that I had this taste of that magical connection. And I was just overwhelmed with not only the state of presence that I had, but I couldn't even get distracted if I wanted to. So it was just such a powerful centering experience. And the sense of connection with the audience, the sense of joy that I was playing with, was just, it brought me close to tears as I was performing. Not because, oh, look what I'm doing, but look what I am experiencing. That sounds like it was life changing. Yeah.

David, do you have a favorite tool in the practice room? I do. It's a drone. So there are recordings that were made called Cello Drones for Tuning and Improvisation. And I use this a lot in my intonation work and also my centering work because that drone produces that backdrop of groundedness to which I can then compare the notes that I'm playing with. And I do a lot of slow intonation position work with different intervals And that just gives me a really nice, grounded way of starting my practice. I didn't know of these recordings.

I wonder if there are some for other instruments as well. And you can use them. They're just beautiful. It's just, they're cello sounds, but it's a beautiful drone production. So oftentimes, drones are just singular pitches, which can be really annoying. but this has a beautiful earthy gorgeous round sound that sounds nice i'm i think i'm going to look into it how about a favorite book that you would recommend to the listeners yes talks with great composers by alfred abell a-b-e-l-l and he was a young man who got to interview brahms

in the last few years of Brahms' life. And Brahms confides in him his method of creativity. And he says he goes into a state between dreaming and wakefulness. And the interviewer says, oh, you mean like the subconscious? And Brahms says, no, something like the superconscious. And there I experience what Brahms calls the divine. And there I receive all of my inspiration, my melodies, my harmonies. And what he's talking about there is that place that meditation can bring us to, that deep, magical, spiritual aspect that I would also love to talk about. so many of us musicians are spiritual beings and we're not we have this spiritual aspect to our

lives that unfortunately classical music does not talk about a lot jazz talks about spirituality a lot and for me it's just it's so frustrating because it's something taboo that we're not allowed really to talk about. I don't, I'm not really sure why, but music is such a universal language because it draws on that universal spiritual experience because it awakens that aspect within us. And I'm not talking religious. I'm talking that inner response that we can't really label yet, but we know that's happening. That feeling of joy that music gives us, that connection, that growing sense of empathy, all these are spiritual responses that music evokes within us. So this book speaks so beautifully to that aspect that so many

inspired composers are able to talk about. And what's the last thing I wanted to mention about this is that it gives us a hint of how music acts as a roadmap or source code. It's so amazing that these composers were able to draw upon their inspired experience, and they were able to somehow infuse that into their compositions so that we are able to taste a little bit of that inspiration. As we play these notes, as we deepen our own receptivity, and meditation is such a great tool because it allows us to deepen our receptivity for this. Is it possible to say, oh, this inspiration is Brahms' inspiration? No, I have no idea. But when I enter into playing Brahms with a state of receptivity, I know that something good always awakens within me.

Hmm. What a great answer. What is the best advice that was given to you that you would like to pass on to the listeners? I had the great fortune of studying with Janusz Starker at Indiana University. And I had heard about growing up as a teenager that he would say to people, you should become a plumber. So in every lesson, I was waiting for those words. And I would take his words and I would, you know, be trying to apply everything that he was talking about, asking me to change, which was a lot for me. And he could see that I was trying so hard. And he says, finally, David, now is the time that you need to concentrate on what you are doing well. And for me, that was just such an inspiration because as you concentrate on what

you're doing well, the mind can relax. It can stop saying, you're not doing this right. You need to do that better. You need to do that better. And then it can say, hey, you know, you're doing that really well. And as a teacher, we all know that it's very beneficial to give students positive feedback in addition to fix this, fix that, you know, all the negative things that they need to do. Because that, once again, gives them a positive mindset. It allows them to, it allows us to experience the growth mindset versus the fixed mindset. And if you don't know what those are, please look them up online because it's really, really vital for any type of growth, whether it be in meditation. No, I can't meditate through playing an instrument.

This is great advice. David, how about a quick, actionable tip listeners can implement today in their musical lives? So before you start your nitty-gritty practice, take 30 seconds for a simple focus exercise. Take one open string, and as you play it for 30 seconds with a relaxed bow speed, use three of your senses to focus your awareness. Use your eyes to watch your contact point. Use your body to feel for the resonance of the instrument. Use your ears to listen for the tone of that ongoing production and use your awareness to also focus on the breath. Allow your breath to relax

and every time the mind wanders, bring it back to those three observable senses as well as the awareness of the breath. Allow the breath to relax, to flow more deeply, to even pause if that feels good and to experience that state of stillness, of focus. This is really, really helpful because it sets the mood for your whole practice session. I do this with my class of 40 fourth grade cellists that I have all together in one room.

And it's amazing how the tone of the room is changed so that kids are ready to learn. That's a great thing to try. I definitely will. David, can you remind us quickly of your website so all of our listeners can visit it? And I will put a link in the show notes as well. Thank you. It's simply David Eby. It's spelled E-B-Y. Music.com. And also Inspired Connection also works. And I'm on Facebook through my name and also through The Inspired Musician. David, I'm so grateful for this gift of your time and wisdom today. And I feel inspired beyond words. So thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you so much for hosting. It's such an honor to share. Thank you guys so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed this chat with David Eby.

I love his approach so much, and I truly hope that I have the chance to attend one of his workshops in person in the near future. I also really hope that this episode incites you to explore further those wonderful and powerful tools that are meditation and consciousness exercises. David's website can be found at davidebmusic.com. That's davidebmusic.com. And it is filled with great writings on the topic and really useful exercises. So I really hope you check it out. As always, you can find the show notes for this episode and other episodes of the show at mindoverfinger.com. And I would love to connect with you and know what your favorite takeaway from today's show is. So please

join the conversation on social media. Let me know what inspires you, what specific questions you have about mindful practice, and what other topics and guests you would like to hear about in future episodes. I am Mind Over Finger on all platforms. If you're looking for a community of mindful practice enthusiasts join the mind over finger tribe at facebook.com slash groups slash mind over finger tribe there you'll find inspiration motivation and support as well as information and discussions on how to take your practice to the next level and enjoy the process next week i am super excited to bring the talented brilliant funny and endearing tessa lark to the show to talk to us about joy and music making. So get ready and tune in on March 8th. If you enjoyed this

episode, please take a minute to head over to iTunes to rate and leave a review. Those reviews help people find out about the show and they truly mean the world to me. So if you want to make my day, please write a few kind words and tell your friends about the show. Again, thank you and à bientôt! Thank you.