The Mind Over Finger Podcast - 023 Tessa Lark: Getting Into a Joyful Headspace for Enhanced Practice & Performance

Starting point is 00:00:00 You're listening to the Mind Over Finger Podcast, Episode Number 23. Welcome to the Mind Over Finger Podcast, discussions on mindful music making, efficient practice, and building a purposeful career. And now your host, Dr. Renée Paul Gaultier. Hi everyone. Last week I spoke with cellist David Eby about the powerful effects meditation and consciousness tools can have on our practice and performance. It's a topic I'm passionate about and I loved the episode and David's approach and I'm really happy that we are pursuing in the same vein today. I'm very excited to have the talented, brilliant, funny, and as you'll see, engaging

Starting point is 00:00:55 Tessa Lark to the show to talk to us about joy in practice and music making. I've been thinking a lot about joy, self-compassion, and using positive self-talk in practicing and performing for the past few years. And I ended up researching that topic in the context of my doctoral studies. It's the idea that high quality work can flow more easily when we are in the right mindset and the right disposition. High-level results stem out of high-level thinking and solutions to problems come more easily when we're in a positive and open state of mind. It is absolutely possible to have rigor without rigidity in the practice room. And I could not think of a better person to talk about this than the wonderful Tessa Lark. Tessa is the recipient of the 2018

Starting point is 00:01:46 Borletti-Botoni Trust Fellowship and the 2016 Avery Fisher Career Grant, in addition to being a silver medalist in the Indianapolis International Violin Competition and the winner of the 2012 Nuremberg International Violin Competition. She's one of the most captivating artistic voices today and she's not only a superstar in the classical realm, she's also a highly acclaimed fiddler in the tradition of her native Kentucky. Tessa is a graduate of the New England Conservatory and the Juilliard School, and she's appeared with dozens of orchestras, festivals, and recital venues, including Carnegie Hall, Ravinia, and Amsterdam's Concertgebouw. In this episode, we discuss her views about tackling work with the right mindset, the way she sparks joy

Starting point is 00:02:36 in her practice and how getting in that joyful headspace not only makes it more gratifying for her, but also helps increase her productivity. I had such a fun time talking with Tessa about this topic that's really close to my heart. I feel like it's a way to approach practicing that can be very impactful. And I hope this episode affects your next practice session in a positive way. Let's go to the show. Tessa Lark, I'm so incredibly happy to have you on the show today. It's such an honor to be here. Thank you. Tessa, you are such an incredible musician. You have a really impressive resume you've won competitions and prizes and you tour the world and you record albums and you know you are also extremely brilliant and gracious and fun in person

Starting point is 00:03:41 and one thing that strikes me about you in addition to all that is how much fun you seem to be having while you play it just radiates out of you so thank you so i'm really excited because this element of joy and practice and performance is one of my favorite topics. And we're going to be focusing on that a lot today. So I can't wait. Sounds like a joyful time. So before we dive in headfirst, I'd love for my listeners to get to know you better. So can you tell us a little bit about your musical journey and how you got to where you are today? sure um yeah so i'll start out in uh the foothills of kentucky that's where i was born and raised um and my parents are both um great musical lovers there's a lot of love for music on both sides of

Starting point is 00:04:33 the family and my dad plays bluegrass banjo for fun he still plays with the gospel bluegrass band called the narrow road um in churches around kentucky but he was a wildlife biology professor by profession. So this was just a fun pastime for him. So there was bluegrass in the house and my parents listened to a lot of different styles of music on the radio. NPR performance today was on the radio all the time. And I had this Muppet Babies keyboard and my parents noticed that I was picking out tunes that I was hearing on the radio and on CDs on this keyboard. And by the time I started implementing both hands and playing both left and right hands and multiple voices, they decided that I was probably into music and had some sort of ear. So they asked

Starting point is 00:05:28 if I was interested in learning an instrument and I was desperate to play the piano. I really wanted to play the piano, but the teacher they found suggested that I start on something that's easier to acquire because you can't really learn piano on a tiny tiny muppet baby's keyboard so this teacher also taught violin and suggested I start with that and I said okay fine I sort of you know I was upset that it wasn't piano but I would take what I could get and this teacher was Catherine McGlasson a Suzuki teacher in Richmond Kentucky and she teaches now in Tennessee she taught piano and violin and viola and fiddle so I went to her started violin lessons when I was six and my parents say a year or so later I declared myself a violinist and I don't remember

Starting point is 00:06:25 doing that but I do remember that I've never looked back and I've always loved music so that's how the journey began and that was Kathy teaches the Suzuki method so I studied with her for about six years. And she also did this amazing thing, which is she supplemented the Suzuki method also with these fiddle club books. I think it's called the Fiddle Club Collection. And so I was learning little fiddle tunes along with my Suzuki tunes. And that was a lot of fun for me. And actually, before I even learned the violin, I played the mandolin with my dad. And the very first tune I ever learned was Boil Em Cabbage Down, which actually has a lot of similarities to Twinkle Twinkle, which is what you first learn in Suzuki. I think Boiling Cabbage Down is maybe the first

Starting point is 00:07:13 tune in Mark O'Connor's fiddle method, his fiddle books. So there is a lot of similarity in those tunes. But I always was learning fiddle music and classical Suzuki music together. And I was also going to Mark O'Connor, speaking of his fiddle camps, and they were in Tennessee at that time. And I went to several of those and that opened my eyes to the amazing variety of music that the violin can play and is integral to. So there was classical music there, of course, but there's also like gypsy jazz, Texas swing, Celtic, old timey fiddle Appalachian music, bluegrass, Celtic, all kinds of stuff at the O'Connor fiddle camps. And I was just so fascinated by it and also was fascinated by the world of improvisation as well, which I know a lot of classical musicians are. But I was lucky to be introduced to it from a very young age at those camps. and i have made sure to always keep fiddle music and improvisation as at least a little bit you know a part of my life and what i do in my practice and i owe that a lot to my parents

Starting point is 00:08:34 and growing up in kentucky and those fiddle camps from there this is i'm about 11 or 12 now this is 2000 um well i shouldn't say the year that gives away my age um no but i started going to this uh Starling program in Cincinnati which is still run to this day by Kurt Sussman's house an amazing teacher there for pre-college and college and I was part of that program for about five years in Cincinnati was a two-hour drive from where I was growing up in Richmond Kentucky and bless my parents they would drive me every Saturday into that program a two-hour drive there were private lessons there were theory classes um eurythmics for a little while um chamber orchestra uh chamber music and performance opportunities as part of that program so it was really invaluable all the

Starting point is 00:09:30 the opportunities and lessons that um came from that and Mr. Sussman's house actually has this amazing online program called Violin Masterclass. And he saw the amazing opportunity in online videos before it was cool, as they say these days. But he made this violinmasterclass.com before YouTube even existed. And it's this huge wealth of amazing videos on how to practice different techniques and pieces and techniques in those pieces and how to structure your practice time. And the videos are incredible how concise he is in explaining things and how clear his language is. But the amazing thing about those videos, I didn't realize this at the time was taking it for granted, but he was largely unscripted in those videos. And it sounds like

Starting point is 00:10:29 he wrote everything down. You know, it's very well worded, but that's how lessons are with him. He just has such a clear vision for how to practice and how to get things done. And that was just incredible for me growing up and having him as a teacher in those formative years. So I was studying with him up through my high school days. And in that time, I started going to violin competitions which Mr. Sussman's house is a big believer in and they certainly do provide countless opportunities for people who participate in them and also of course for people who get prizes in them but one of the greatest gifts from a competition was actually from one that I got no prize in didn't even pass the first round that was the Menuhin competition and this was in

Starting point is 00:11:24 2004, I believe. And Miriam Freed was on the panel that year. And she was one of like 5% of the jury that voted for me when I was there. She saw something in me, I suppose. I remember it was one of the first times, because Mr. Sussman's house is, at least in my lessons, He's very encouraging and optimistic and positive, which might go into what we'll talk about later with joy of practice, but always encouraging. He saw that that helped me a lot in my practice. But Miriam Freed, I remember at that competition, the Menuhin, that we could talk to jury members and have them just give us comments on what they saw in our playing. And at first I played these Prokofiev five melodies. And she said she felt my passion in the Prokofiev. And she really appreciated that. And I also played a Mozart sonata. And so immediately after saying, you know, she really liked my passion in the Prokofiev, she said, now, I really did not like your Mozart at all. and it was one of the first times anybody was just that blunt and straightforward with me

Starting point is 00:12:40 you know and it caught me off guard and I thought whoa you know but I knew it wasn't malicious because she had already you know said a kind thing just beforehand so that was intriguing to me because I was you know I was thinking well I played it in tune and I played all the right notes like what what was wrong with the Mozart so I was intrigued by her and she agreed to meet with me in the States after the competition. The competition was in London that year. And so we met and I had a couple of lessons with her and I really loved what I was learning from her. And she was opening my eyes to this world of artistic integrity that I really was craving. And so I followed her to New England Conservatory and I did my bachelor's and master's

Starting point is 00:13:31 degrees with her there in Boston and also studied with Lucy Chapman for a while in my master's degree I split studios with her and Miriam and graduated in 2012 and just a month actually the month I graduated I have this I have a piano trio Namorowski Lark Pei trio we were called Modetra at the time and we went to fish off after playing together for a couple of months and somehow snagged the silver medal at the fish off competition in May, which was really exciting for us. And then a month later, I did the Nuremberg competition, the violin competition in 2012. This is and somehow won that. And I think that number of competition is really what helped me survive and helped me get my, you know, bread and butter in those years outside of school,

Starting point is 00:14:28 because I really didn't know what I was going to do after graduating. And so this is just, you know, a few weeks after graduating. And so the Namburg is so highly respected that people were willing to hire me for engagements. So that was sort of keeping me afloat for several years. It's the validation seal. Yes, yeah, yeah. I mean, as, you know, John Batiste, actually, a few days ago,

Starting point is 00:14:54 Stephen Colbert on The Late Show was giving him a hard time about not winning a Grammy for one of his tracks. And John so wisely said, my, my worth is not defined by the awards I get, or my value is not defined by my, by any awards. And that's a very important thing to always remember. But of course, it always feels nice to be, you know, awarded or rewarded for hard work and absolutely validating and at that time that really that excited me because I was actually just out of a period of not playing at the end of 2011 I didn't play for three months because of an injury I didn't think I was injured but I saw a physical therapist and she tattletaled and told my teachers that she thought there was too much inflammation in my

Starting point is 00:15:47 arm and I should stop playing and so I um you know it was a period of great unknown you know and so six months later getting this prize really um helps me a lot and has carried me through many years and then I'm I live now in New York City I moved here in 2015 um because I went to Juilliard and I did their artist diploma program for two years from 2015 to 17 and studied with more amazing teachers. I'm so lucky to have had a life filled with powerhouse women. So Miriam Freed, Lucy Chapman at NEC, and then at Juilliard, I studied with Sylvia Rosenberg and Ida Kavafian. And also, not a woman, but also powerhouse, Daniel Phillips. And I loved studying with those three teachers, I thought that was great. Having been in the professional field for three

Starting point is 00:16:46 years, I loved getting insights from several different people as opposed to having one main teacher that worked really well for me at that point. And now I'm sitting in my New York City apartment amidst a schedule that I'm pretty proud of for life and music. So it's been a lot fun. Tessa, that's a wonderful journey. And that's one of the reasons why I love hearing people's stories so much because I love watching how all of these elements came together and help shape who you are today as an artist and seeing this extension of all of these influences and all of these people in your life as this incarnation of you as a professional musician. That's fantastic. You know, going from the bluegrass background, the love of bluegrass and all these different genres as a child to having a supportive teacher. And by the way, I saw some of those videos by Mr. Sussman's house. And I'm going to put some links in the show notes because as you said, we really, you know, hear this vision that you mentioned. We really feel it.

Starting point is 00:17:59 His explanations are so detailed and just so clear that I think that the listeners would, especially the violinists or string players, would really get a lot out of watching these videos. Yeah, yeah. And I also love how you mentioned that you declared yourself a musician. I had a guest on the podcast a few weeks ago, Anthony McGill from the New York Phil, who mentioned a similar experience where as a teenager, he realized that he was not trying to become a musician, but he felt as though he already was. And I feel like that makes such a big difference in your approach of your practice as part of a bigger thing than just logging in hours. And I think this is a good segue into this question I wanted to ask you. And it's this element of making practice more enjoyable. It's something that I personally became very, very curious about several years ago, because for me, I mean, you know very well that we spent so much time practicing that it came to a point where I needed to figure out a way to make it enjoyable. so that I could be more efficient and, you know, just really enjoy the process a lot more and by default, spend more time in the practice room. But I also started researching this during my doctoral studies, and it really led to some great findings. And my experience is that I only feel

Starting point is 00:19:36 positive repercussions when I try to bring more joy in my practice, because, you know, I'm not talking about goofing off or not working hard, but more about ways to make it comfortable and practical and ways to make working on issues feel like I'm playing a game. Like it's a challenge that I'm overcoming. And I feel like it makes me more engaged and more focused. And I definitely see faster progress as a result. And I thought it was so fantastic. A few weeks ago, you posted something on Instagram and you and I had already decided on the time for this interview. And I was thinking about talking to you about joy in practice, but then you posted this thing that was so timely. And if that's okay with you, I want to read your post because I feel like that in very

Starting point is 00:20:29 short Instagram posts, you encapsulated everything I feel about bringing joy in the practice. And by the way, for you out there listening, if you want to spark more joy in your life, you have to follow Tessa on Instagram because that is where fantastic playing meets great humor. And it's awesome. So find her on Instagram. um so here's the post you start by mentioning marie kondo um marie kondo has been blowing up since her netflix series was released on new year's day and by the way sorry i don't think maybe i'm reenacting the tone of voice you had when you wrote it but uh i'll do my best so oh it's okay there's yeah i was totally silent when i was writing it if you don't know about her she's a genius of tidying spaces through the unique konmari method her most notable rule being to keep only items that spark joy for you and your life i've decided

Starting point is 00:21:32 to implement the konmari method into my playing this year by practicing and performing in ways that spark joy i'm going to go ahead and say it practicing several hours a day is not easy for anyone. If you struggle with getting your instrument out every darn day, you're not necessarily doing anything wrong. But if you search for things in your practice that bring you joy, as opposed to looking for all the things you're doing horribly wrong, I bet it's going to be far more appealing to get out the fiddle and get to work. And there you go and list a few things that spark joy in your practicing. Things that bring joy while playing violin could include for me, a nice juicy slide, probably not in Bach, great expressive intonation, relaxed and efficient

Starting point is 00:22:21 left and right hands, clever bowing or bow distribution that supports a phrase shape. I really like that. Capturing what I believe to be the mood of a phrase, brooding, expectant, resplendent, a fruitful, productive, and focused hour of practice. I share these examples to show that finding the joy in your practice can be vast and does not eliminate hard work or depth of emotional exploration within the music. I kind of want to read that sentence again, if that's okay, because I love it. Sure. Finding joy in your practice can be vast and does not eliminate hard work or depth of emotional exploration within the music. I think this is so great. This frame of mind simply works to eliminate some of the heavy frustrations and unhealthy

Starting point is 00:23:08 criticisms that many musicians battle during their practice and within their careers at large really good so i love this post so much because as i said earlier it really summarizes so well these concept or at least the way that i see joyful practice so can you please unpack this for us a little bit you know if if this is something that was present in your life always or if not, how you came to this realization? And I know you've given us some examples already in the post I just read, but how does this show up in your life now? Yeah, I'll be honest.

Starting point is 00:23:47 Joyful practice does not come naturally to me. I mean, it maybe comes as no surprise that I'm very hard on myself. And I know that saying it comes as no surprise because most musicians are very hard on themselves and that's that is one way to excellence but it's interesting you were talking about Anthony McGill and saying that that he he was a musician and just coming into that realization over time there wasn't any developing of that which is I guess another aspect of that or another way of saying that is that he is very musically talented and gifted. And the word gifted, of course, just means that if somebody is gifted in music,

Starting point is 00:24:32 that was something that was given to them and didn't necessarily need to be cultivated to be at a certain quality. And of course, talent only gets you so far. Everybody says that. I think that's a known fact now that hard work and good, useful, efficient, joyful practice is necessary to pair with talent. But something that comes with talent is that it is something that wasn't necessarily cultivated. And sometimes for me, that actually got me into this dark place where I was searching for my worth outside of my talent, because this was something that to a point I didn't necessarily work for. And there is actually like a guilt element that was wrapped up into that. And somehow, because I was told growing up that I was talented, I ignored the hard work that

Starting point is 00:25:36 I was putting into what I was doing. And so I was finding myself in this confused place and thinking that I was nothing outside of my talents and that somehow hard work that I was doing was not going to get me anywhere else. So it got me in this strange place, which made me start thinking about the work that I was putting in because I just needed to know that I was something outside of my music, which brought me to this thoughtful practice. And it's really saved me in a way. It's so funny that you said in your experience with implementing more joyful practice that you only find positive repercussions in doing so. And I think that's such a great thing. And it's an interesting thing because I feel like in a lot of classical training that there's this idea

Starting point is 00:26:36 that's not necessarily said by any of our teachers but somehow seems implied that if you aren't shedding blood sweat and tears in your practice that you're doing it wrong you know that it has to be that hard work has to feel hard and painful and challenging and so maybe um and I said hard work in my post, but now that I'm thinking about it, maybe that's the wrong way to put it, that it's very focused work or efficient work. Because somehow when I find joy in my practice, at first, I was thinking, oh, I'm doing it wrong because this just feels so good. I'm so happy and I'm loving this and exploring. And somehow I thought that I wasn't doing it right because it wasn't hurting, psychologically speaking. So there's been a lot of unlearning and unpacking in that

Starting point is 00:27:35 because it is, as I said, also in the posts, you aren't necessarily doing anything wrong if it's hard to get out the violin, especially when a passion of yours, which is music making, is suddenly coupled with your livelihood or your finances. And that's such an interesting thing to juggle, that you're making money with your passion. And somehow that can bring challenges to even just looking at the violin in the morning and getting it out, which is all the more reason to find these joyful things in your practice. And so I've found that, like you said, it's a discipline for me, at least, to get into the joyful headspace, which sounds counterintuitive Because joy, playing games in your practice to make it more fun sounds easy. But somehow, because there is so much detail in the music, it's a counterintuitive place to go, at least for me at first, this joyful place.

Starting point is 00:28:42 So I have to implement a mental discipline to get myself into that joyful place in practice. And then time almost seems to fly by because I'm just so excited by the practice that I'm doing or the music that I'm practicing is the more accurate way to say it. First of all, I love this expression, get into the joyful headspace. I think that's a great mantra to have right before you start the practice. And I agree with you, it's not always easy, because I know that there's some weeks, you know, if I'm learning a really difficult orchestra piece for whichever concert is coming up, I think the only joy I can find is by thinking that in 30 minutes, this will stop because I got to leave. But it's also so true what you said. We are so conditioned to think that pursuing excellence means that the work process has to be arduous and painful. And we, as young players, work really hard and then we are told that we're talented. and exactly what you say we ignore the fact that we've put a lot of work into it so it's it's very interesting how it all comes together and i'm so glad you're pointing all of these things out but it's so true that i find the same thing that i need to make myself well i want to use your expression because it's great i really need to make a conscious effort to get into that joyful headspace. Yeah. And there's, you know, there's if I may just really quickly there's somehow

Starting point is 00:30:26 oftentimes this I don't know, in, in the arts in general, it seems that this darkness within artists is in a way often glorified, you know, these, these artists rock stars with, with drug addictions or this you know violinist who's an alcoholic and this and that and it almost hearing all these stories growing up it makes you think like my my art will not be powerful unless I'm struggling in some way and I think um there's also there's some stigma around that which I feel is is kind of dangerous that that um younger people especially can can get influenced by And so then it's not that, you know, feeling down or struggling is not normal. It is. And it's a part of the process. And it's totally okay. But I think what happens is that artists might tend to lean into those hardships in such a way that they think that it's for the music, you know, like their music will be enhanced from this headspace. And that was something that, as juvenile as it might seem, is something that I had to unlearn, that being in this joyful headspace, I can still get to those emotional depths that I'm looking for in the music.

Starting point is 00:31:53 And by the way, in the music that is written by people who did suffer, you know, emotionally, like Schubert or Schumann, two of my favorite composers, and very well known that they, you know, struggled in their lives. And so there is also that journey that you have to take in their music to those places, but it can be done from this headspace of joy. And that's really helped me, ironically, with my productivity and efficiency, because it is just very taxing to do that work in a more heavy emotional space. So I've been able to be much more productive in finding the joyful way to go about that. It's true what you say. It's so taxing. And it touches to another topic I love, which is the language we use with ourselves in the practice room to go the route of more self-compassion, assessing what is happening instead of really attacking our characters.

Starting point is 00:32:58 And exactly like what you said, you know, we glorify the DART artists, but we also have, you know, this is a silly example, but, you know, you get these movies about athletes and the mean coach yelling and you get the, you know, the montage with the music playing where the athlete just going through excruciating pain to get to this goal. And, of course, we have to pursue excellence, but there is just a way to get there that I think is more efficient and more effective. And I think that starts with changing the language we use with ourselves in the practice room. And I think that getting into this joyful headspace, like you said, that's going to become my favorite expression, is a great place to start. So how do you go about trying to reach that state? Like, what are some ways that you do? I know for me, if I have a nice warm cup of coffee next to me, it really helps. Oh, yeah. I've got that exact thing right next to me right now. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:34:00 Well, that's a great, I'm glad you started it in that way. Like to make sure that you're in a physical, like literal joyful space is very helpful. It's interesting. the past few days, I've had a harder time practicing because I've been Marie Kondo-ing, surprise, surprise, my apartment. And so my whole closet was as a result, just out in my practice room on the floor. And so I was having a hard time focusing. And I was thinking, man, this is like, I'm having one of those weeks, you know, where it's just, I really have to pick myself up by the bootstraps to get going. But then I finally cleaned up my closet and suddenly the practice

Starting point is 00:34:43 just flowed. I was ready to go every day. And I just was reminded again that having a space where even visually you're inspired is really important. And that's not to say that you waste your practice time cleaning up, you know, like don't use that as an excuse, But it is very helpful to just have inspiring things around you, which is another Marie Kondo element. But having the coffee for sure, being stretched and warmed up and really making sure that there are as few distractions as possible around you into adulthood, that gets more and more challenging, I think, especially you would know better than me, having kids and just emails on the back of your mind and having your phone. So trying to eliminate all of that as much as possible so I can get your head just all cylinders running towards joy, you know. And for me, knowing the facts helps me get through life. So I mean, knowing the facts about myself.

Starting point is 00:35:55 So for instance, I know that I am very stubborn and I can be very disciplined when I have a clear goal in mind. And so I, in terms of getting into that joyful headspace, knowing those things, I can implement those traits that I have to get myself there. And in a way, because we are, as you said, the image of the sweating and like crying athlete, you know, like working so hard. since that's so ingrained into my head, I can actually trick myself into using that discipline to go to a joyful headspace. So then it's, it's a goal and it's a neutral goal, even though joy, you know, is not a neutral feeling. My process to get there can be neutral. Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Yeah. So then in that way, you can try and access it on any day as well. And of course, not beating yourself up is an element of this because you're talking about, of course, the

Starting point is 00:37:00 self-compassion and talking to yourself in a way that you would, you know, encourage a student. And it's just unfair to think that we could practice efficiently and well and with joy if we're really hard on ourselves. It's just absolutely unfair. And so I implement this discipline in my internal dialogue, which I feel is most of my practice actually these days is more mental practice because that's also the factor that is most varied from practice room to concert stage. So I feel that mental discipline is something very important to practice. And so getting to this joyful place actually helps in performance too, because then you can access that discipline, that mental discipline when you're on stage and nervous and prone to more

Starting point is 00:37:56 thoughts of fear. And I tend to start my practice with honestly, nothing consistent. I usually just take out the violin and I play what feels most sincere to me at that moment. So sometimes it's just long open string, long bows, just getting used to the vibration of the instrument. Sometimes I'm really dying to just play a lyrical piece. And I should note that I'm not one that's totally drawn to virtuosic fast music. So I almost never tend to want to play something that would hurt me if I started right away on that, because your body does just need to physically warm up. And Fritz Kreisler once said that, you know, his warm up was just, you know, three minutes with his hands under warm water. And that was his warm up. So it's literally a warm up, you're just getting your muscles moving. So whatever gets me most excited to just get out the fiddle and play. And that's what I play to start out. and that just gets me in a good mood and it reminds me why i play the violin

Starting point is 00:39:07 and and it helps me just get ready for the rest of my practice and another quote something that i like to think about in practice that helps me out is something that roger tapping the violist in the juilliard quartet former violist in takash said to me i don't i don't know who is attributed to, but he said, be more interested than interesting. And I think that's a really great way to go about practice. And I actually, you know, to check in with myself every few minutes and, you know, make sure, am I interested or am I trying to be interesting? You know, and I think when you're trying to be interesting or impressive or whatever your go-to is in music and my default is to like make an interesting phrase you know and so but whenever I am stuck

Starting point is 00:40:06 on being interesting that brings myself and my ego more into my practice which will then make me more prone to less joyful practice because I'm thinking about me and then something that doesn't go well in the practice is then just a character flaw on me from that headspace of being interesting. But when I am interested, I am thinking outside of myself, and it removes my ego from the process. And then joy, there's space for joy to come in to that type of practice. And then thinking about the composer and it's amazing how much changes when you're interested like you were saying with your joyful practice that it keeps you more focused keeps you more efficient suddenly things truly easily come to you and you just become a better practicer when you when you

Starting point is 00:41:03 leave your mind in an open space and you kind of in a way leave yourself out of the process So that's been unbelievably helpful to me. And it makes me a better musician too, because then I'm thinking, I brought the examples of Schubert and Schumann in, but if I'm practicing Schubert, I'm thinking of Schubert's life. I'm thinking, you know, how that affected the notes that he was writing on the page. I will then be so curious to look at the full score and in all these little details, you know, I get more and more interested. And so I dive deeper and deeper. And so that's what I mean in terms of joy being vast is that when I'm interested in what's going on, and I feel that joy is somehow related to respect as well. I suddenly have an even greater respect for the music that I'm working on in this instrument that I'm playing that I start just diving in as deep as possible. And it brings a lot of great things to the practice, which actually it makes me think of one more thing and in practicing that I've started doing, which is timing myself. Because as you can tell with my talking, I just kind of like get on things and keep going. And with joyful practice, it's easy to just get caught up in

Starting point is 00:42:29 something and suddenly like, you know, four hours goes by and that's unhealthy to just be practicing that much in one stretch, you know, or you spent, I can spend like hours on a single bar or even like two notes, you know, and so I've started to bring the kitchen timer back into my practice. And it's really helped me a lot because, again, with these clear goals, you know, I have a goal of I will learn, you know, these five bars of music or I'll tackle this one problem spot and I'll give myself, you know, 10 minutes today to do it with the goal of improving it and finding solutions, not necessarily to play it perfectly. But I set a timer with, you know, at least one goal for improvement. And then I just move on. I let that thing go when the timer goes off because this joyful practice, as beautiful as it is, you can get caught up and swept away in it so that the timer keeps me focused with that. I'm with you on the timer. I use the timer so much when I practice. And I think it goes with what I was saying earlier, that sometimes the only joy I can find is knowing that it ends soon. That's fair. Whatever works.

Starting point is 00:43:50 But it's exactly, I use it in a way that's very similar to what you say. I just will set up and say, okay, 10 minutes on this. And can I fix this problem in this time? And if not, you move on and you come back to it. And it makes me think more long-term, more about this compound effect on working on the passage many times over time, as opposed to a long period in one big chunk. And it just keeps, you know, it makes me look forward to the next passage I'll work on or the next piece. And it's one way that I make practicing more enjoyable. But I just want to come back to what you were saying earlier, because I think it's so important in this approach of being interested as opposed to interesting. And I think that if there's one thing that I want to try

Starting point is 00:44:40 to really, really adopt from now on would be this approach, because it's such a powerful paradigm to adopt. I love that. And I'm so grateful that you shared that with us. oh i think well thanks to roger tapping for for that little nugget and you know the funny thing is um you can sort of you can sort of detect who is um walking around in life being more interested than interesting and those people because of that are actually more interesting because they found a lot of things to be interested in and so again like knowing the facts about yourself like if you know that you want to be interesting then you can go into this lifestyle of being interested knowing that you will then therefore have more interest

Starting point is 00:45:33 in you because you know more things you know but it's just really funny because uh yeah i've noticed that that roger tapping is one of the most interesting people i know but he is it is because he is so interested in the things that he does. And I think, again, it breeds a sense of joy in the way he plays. And yeah. Tessa, another thing I love about you is, and you mentioned that your bluegrass skills, and I love that you have this versatility of these different styles. But it also looks like it brings you so much joy, and you're having so much fun. And I'm sure that it also, you know, on a more technical level, I'm sure it enhances your technical skills on the violin, you know, so can you talk to us a little bit more about that? Sure. You know, I somehow

Starting point is 00:46:31 have gotten away with people saying that I'm a great fiddler and bluegrass player. And I feel a little bit like an imposter in that world. But I did grow up in Kentucky, and I grew up with bluegrass in the house and i did play it so i um there is an element of folk music that is in my blood which i'm i'm grateful for and again like i didn't i didn't work for that that's just how i grew up but um so i i say all that as a disclaimer because some of this um may be just horribly inaccurate. But my observation is that the culture around bluegrass music and folk music is just inherently different than classical music. And of course, with technology and the invention of recordings and CDs, all of that, music has become different in every field and

Starting point is 00:47:34 has become more detail-oriented. But folk music and bluegrass music was a place for a community to come together and play together. And the music is mostly passed down orally, just from one person playing it to another. And by nature, then, personality is so much more an element of those tunes because it's so funny you bring two fiddlers together and they say do you know blackberry blossom and say oh yeah and then they start playing together and it it could sound totally different from one another because it's been passed down by ear and so it's like the game telephone you know um that these tunes develop with with such um different sounds and and that's not the same in classical music the every detail is written down in the score and so i think by

Starting point is 00:48:27 nature, the training may feel more serious at the start. Again, these are just observations. I don't think it's entirely true because some of the greatest instrumentalists and artists I know are in folk music. So it's not to say that it's not a serious music and in high art, but I feel that it stems from a different place, deep from the soul and from your upbringing in the culture And classical music, I mean, I'm an American, you know, I didn't grow up in Europe where all this classical music came from. And so I had to learn this tradition and then embody it from that place. And so I think one thing that bluegrass and learning folk music has brought to me is trying to inhabit classical music in more of that folk-like way to really feel the music in my bones and really believe in all the music that I'm playing. And I know a lot of people talk about that, you know, like don't play a composer or a piece that you don't believe in. But I really, I want to understand it at, you know, a cultural level. And so it's just like a piece that I can really live with in a way. And so it's a different, I guess, in a way that's just talking about like feeling like you technically know the piece and understand the history of it and this and that.

Starting point is 00:49:59 But I feel like there's another level of just really having the music in your bones that I crave from what I've seen in these communities of folk music where people just sit around the fire and jam on tunes all night long. You know, and I guess it's the equivalent in classical music would be a chamber music reading party, you know, but, but still, you don't veer off the page in classical music. So I think this element of going off the page, or like adding an element of yourself in folk music helps me in classical music, because that's how this music was created. These composers are, each piece is unique because they are improvising on their style or the knowledge of music that they have at that time. And so to approach music in that way, somehow the intimidation of the centuries of tradition on classical music is a little lighter when I approach the music in that way. and so that's something that that bluegrass has brought to me and certainly I play by nature of the music but also because of what bluegrass was to me growing up I play it in a different way and it feels much less high stakes to me because I am mostly a classical violinist I don't tell myself to be a bluegrass player and so it's it's just fun and it's a beautiful reminder

Starting point is 00:51:32 for me every day of what music is really for. And again, the joy that music brings into my life. And so if I find myself wanting to get into this headspace that's unhealthy with classical music, I can always just pull out a bluegrass tune and remind myself what all this is about and go on about the day. And again, I guess I'll say that it's natural when you're trying to make a life in music and in classical music to get scared every now and then, to feel overwhelmed and all these things, because it's such an all-encompassing path to play music. You're not going to your desk from nine to five and doing work for someone else and then shutting off and going home. You know, you're really like going to a vulnerable place every day. So I think it's always great to even

Starting point is 00:52:25 just methodically put reminders in your day of what is so beautiful about music and bringing that gratitude. And I think bluegrass and folk music definitely does that for me. And then there's an element of improvisation. There's just a different part of the brain that you use. And I like to try and think about how I would play certain classical phrases if I were to have improvised them. And that oftentimes just brings a new sound to the music or a new avenue to explore in classical music. So that's another thing that I've gotten out of practicing other styles of music. Really eloquently said. Tessa, I really hope that you're coming back to Chicago at some point so we can continue this conversation. But I know right now we both have places we need to be.

Starting point is 00:53:22 So how about a round of rapid fire questions? All right, let's go. So for the people who are maybe dreaming of a career that resemble yours, can you tell us a little bit about what your life looks like? Oh, rapid fire. I know that's a fitting title. No, no, no. I'll try and be fast, though.

Starting point is 00:53:44 It's it looks kind of all over the place at a micro level, but it all makes sense from the macro level. So I try to remind myself of the macro every day when I'm in my micro space, you know, at the airports and this and that. So there's a lot of juggling. And then as a result, a lot of actually just stop and breathe. They're rapid fire. I like this perspective. That makes a lot of sense. What skills do you think young musicians studying today should acquire in addition to learning to play their instruments? improvising we all improvise i guess with you know um speaking but i think it just really everybody has the ability to improvise because we all have new conversations every day so to

Starting point is 00:54:30 implement that even if it's not professionally yeah that's a that's a great one well that's still playing instruments though but oh well sorry no that's a good one is there a performance that a performance that has stayed with you throughout the years oh man this was not that long ago but i saw the punch brothers play the beacon theater in new york um and i was so struck by their accuracy of performance of course they're they're just so together but all their music was memorized and they were having so much fun on the stage and there's a lot of improvisation as well but just the vast amount of trust between those musicians that was on the stage and and the joy and it was almost like a secret how perfect it was because of

Starting point is 00:55:21 all the other things that one was struck by in that performance but I had a great time and it was amazing music making too I'll never forget that you mentioned the timer do you have a is that your favorite tool in the practice room? Or is there another one? I love the timer. I do love the metronome actually for similar reasons. It just keeps things nice and compact in the practice room. And there are a lot of fun things you can do with the metronome to challenge yourself to. How about a favorite book that you would recommend? It can be a music book. It doesn't have to be anything that you think the listeners would enjoy. There's a book that a friend of mine recommended to me and it changed my life. It's called Effortless Mastery by Kenny Werner. And

Starting point is 00:56:08 Kenny Werner is a jazz pianist. And the book is all about actually, you know, when you're in a bind in music and feeling stuck and frustrated, sort of finding not just joy, but a spiritual wholeness in the music that you make and what it actually means to master an instrument. So for instance you should be able to play any piece that you know while holding a conversation that it should be that second nature um and so it's a very interesting exploration to to deeply master what you do in music so i highly recommend that book and i think it still comes with some very cool meditation with a very deep soothing voice yes back then it was on cd now it's probably an upload from a website but yeah yeah I think it is yeah and it's on my kindle too it's all

Starting point is 00:57:01 electronic what's a piece of advice that you felt was useful for you and that you would like to pass on to the listeners oh um this is one that I've been coming into um more and more growing up and it sounds a little bit like a bummer when you first hear it but it's not at all actually it's like a saving grace but miriam freed i remember several years ago she's just talking it wasn't even advice but she was saying that she is very careful to separate her work life from her passions in life her recreational life and when she said that to me i thought that's kind of a bummer like because music is my life like that's what i love music and i can't imagine my life without music. Um, so I was at first, um, at the, at a very young age, disappointed to hear her say

Starting point is 00:57:57 that, but the more that I live a life in music, I do understand that you need to have space from music at times. Um, also in, for, for the music, for the sake of the music, you need to let it breathe and need to find, um, ways to live life and, and to expand your human before you come back to music. And that's really essential to live a life in music to make sure that you, you know, and work doesn't have to be this very practical, uncreative thing. I think I had the wrong idea of what she meant by work when she said that, but to have your music and also make sure you have time to live outside of your music. That's a great one. Tessa, how about a quick actionable tip that listeners can implement today in their musical lives um well i guess be more interested

Starting point is 00:58:52 than interesting but you know maybe i'll give like a really yeah a technical one this one is a lot of fun for me and it's it's not um yeah it's not abstract it's just so like so for a fast passage a tricky passage in music um 16th notes like mendelssohn concerto last movement for instance would be a good example for this. I love putting on the metronome to different parts of the beat and just really like making the passage way more challenging than it ever would be even on the stage. So meaning like if there are four 16th notes per beat, you start the metronome a little slower so you can do it and then put the metronome on and play with the second 16th note of the beat on the metronome pulse. So it's really jarring. It really messes with your brain, but it forces

Starting point is 00:59:49 you to really look at your treble spots in a very, very detailed micro way. And so I put the metronome on every single different beat I possibly could. And sometimes I put the metronome with different rhythms. So I will play, even though there are four 16th notes per beat, I will only put three 16th notes within a metronome beat, if that makes sense. So I'm just putting all these distractors in a sense into my practice so that finally when the metronome is just on the downbeat, you're just like, oh my gosh, this is so easy compared to everything I've just done. So that's a fun little like technical practice method is put your metronome on odd beats and see what happens.

Starting point is 01:00:40 But then as you're walking around life, be more interested than interested. That's fantastic. Tessa, how about a noteworthy project that you're currently working on for the spring and that you would like the listeners to know about? Oh, well, I just premiered a concerto by Michael Torchy called Sky.

Starting point is 01:01:01 And he was inspired to write it because of my bluegrass background. So he's heavily inspired in this music by bluegrass and Appalachian Irish tunes. So I premiered it with the Albany Symphony, and it should be coming out on CD on Albany Records in the summer. I also recorded a CD with Michael Thurber, bass player, happens to be my boyfriend. And we recorded originals and Bach inventions for a CD called Invention. And that should be coming out at the end of August. And I also have a CD of fantasies that should be released in the next few months, including my Appalachian fantasy, but also works by Schubert and Ravel and Chrysler.

Starting point is 01:01:52 So tons of CDs coming out and I'm always performing all over the place. And those concerts are on my website. So I would love to, I always love meeting people after concerts. So it'd be fun to see listeners there. That sounds great. And I'm going to put links in the show notes for all of these things, your website and your Instagram handle that I believe everybody should follow. Tessa, it was such an honor and so much fun to have you on the show.

Starting point is 01:02:23 I have tons of respect for you as an artist, and I'm a huge fan of your playing. And I also think you're a wonderful person. So I'm truly grateful that you took the time to sit with me today. Thank you so much. Oh, thank you so much. The feeling is so mutual. You're just incredible.

Starting point is 01:02:39 I can't wait to see you in person sometime soon. Thank you guys so much for listening. I hope this conversation with Tessa Lark sparks some joy for you. I've been incorporating a lot of these concepts in my own practice and in my teaching for a while now, and I've been loving the results, so I hope you'll try some of them for size. As always, you can visit mindoverfinger.com to find the show notes, listen to past episodes of the show, and read the Mind Over Finger blog. Also, head over to tessalarg.com for more information on Tessa's awesome upcoming projects, including many recitals and solo appearances in North America and the release of several albums.

Starting point is 01:03:33 I would love to connect with you and know what your favorite takeaway from today's show is, so join the conversation on social media. Let me know what inspires you, what specific questions you have about mindful practice, and what other topics and guests you would like to hear about in future episodes. I am Mind Over Finger on all platforms. And if you're looking for a community of mindful practice enthusiasts, join the Mind Over Finger tribe at facebook.com slash groups slash Mind Over Finger tribe. There you'll find inspiration, motivation, and support, as well as information and discussions on how to take your practice to the next level and enjoy the process. Next week, I have another great conversation for you. I speak with percussionist Cameron Leach about focus, communication, and performance in handling a multitude of instruments. If you've enjoyed the episode and think it would bring value to someone, please share it with them.

Starting point is 01:04:33 And if you want to do me a personal favor, please visit iTunes to rate and leave a review. Leaving a review doesn't just help other people find the show, but reading your kind words makes all the hard work worth it, and my incredible producer Bella Kelly and I truly appreciate them. Again, thank you and à bientôt! Thank you.

The Mind Over Finger Podcast - 023 Tessa Lark: Getting Into a Joyful Headspace for Enhanced Practice & Performance

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