The Mind Over Finger Podcast - 026 Michael Klotz: Wisdom & Legacy

Episode Date: March 29, 2019

I'm really happy to continue this series on the pedagogues that shaped me as a violinist with a discussion about another giant in musical journey, Zvi Zeitlin. Unfortunately, Professor Zeitlin passed away in 2012, but I had a wonderful time talking about him with Michael Klotz, violist with the Amernet Quartet and Senior Instructor at Florida International University in Miami. Michael and I were colleagues in the Zeitlin studio at both Eastman and at the Music Academy of the West and, in this episode. we discuss our experience studying with Mr. Zeitlin and his lasting influence on our lives. It was a true pleasure for me to talk with Michael and I think you'll enjoy our chat!   More about Michael Klotz   Website: http://michaelklotzmusic.com/ Amernet String Quartet: http://amernetquartet.com/ Florida International University: http://carta.fiu.edu/music/ Heifetz International Music Institute: https://www.heifetzinstitute.org/   Biography Born in 1978 in Rochester, NY, Michael Klotz made his solo debut with the Rochester Philharmonic at the age of 17 and has since then appeared as soloist with orchestra, recitalist, and chamber musician, and orchestra principal worldwide. After a performance of the Brandenburg Concerto No. 6 with violist Roberto Diaz, the Portland Press-Herald proclaimed, "this concert squelched all viola jokes, now and forever, due to the talents of Diaz and Klotz". The Fort Worth Star-Telegram recently proclaimed Michael Klotz to be "a superb violist, impressive, with an exceptionally attractive sound," and the Miami Herald has consistently lauded his "burnished, glowing tone and nuanced presence."   Michael Klotz joined the Amernet String Quartet in 2002 and has toured and recorded commercially with the ensemble throughout the U.S., Canada, Mexico, Israel, Japan, South Korea, Romania, Colombia, Belgium, and Spain. Klotz has performed at some of New York's most important venues, such as Carnegie Hall, Alice Tully Hall, Weill Hall, Merkin Concert Hall, MoMA, Bargemusic, and the Kosciuzsko Foundation. His festival appearances have included Seattle, Newport, Caramoor, ChamberFest Cleveland, Festival Mozaic, Great Lakes, Cervantino, Festival Baltimore, Piccolo Spoleto, Sunflower, Martha's Vineyard, Skaneateles, Virginia Tech Vocal Arts and Music Festival, San Miguel de Allende, Beverly Hills, Music Mountain, Bowdoin, Madeline Island, Sarasota, Music Academy of the West, and Miami Mainly Mozart. Passionately dedicated to chamber music, Klotz regularly performs with many of today's most esteemed artists, having appeared as guest violist with the Shanghai, Ying, and Borromeo String Quartets, the Manhattan Piano Trio, and collaborated with artists such as Shmuel Ashkenasi, Arnold Steinhardt, James Ehnes, Augustin Hadelich, Vadim Gluzman, Gary Hoffman, Carter Brey, Michael Tree, Robert DeMaine, Andres Diaz, Roberto Diaz, Joseph Kalichstein, Franklin Cohen, and Alexander Fiterstein, as well as with many principal players from major U.S. and European orchestras. In 2015 he was named a Charter Member of the Ensemble with the Chamber Music Society of Fort Worth and regularly appears on this series. In 2002 and 2009, he was was invited by Maestro Jaime Laredo to perform with distinguished alumni at anniversary concerts of the New York String Orchestra Seminar in Carnegie Hall. Michael Klotz is a graduate of the Eastman School of Music, where he was awarded the Performer's Certificate. In 2002 he became one of the few individuals to be awarded a double Master's Degree in violin and viola from the Juilliard School. At Juilliard, he was the recipient of the Tokyo Foundation and Gluck Fellowships. His principle teachers and influences include Zvi Zeitlin, Lynn Blakeslee, Lewis Kaplan, Toby Appel, Peter Kamnitzer, and Shmuel Ashkenasi. Michael Klotz is a dedicated teacher and serves as Senior Instructor and Artist-in-Residence at Florida International University in Miami, where he teaches viola and chamber music. Klotz has recently presented highly acclaimed master classes at the New World Symphony, Cincinnati Conservatory, Cleveland Institute of Music, University of Michigan, Penn State University, University of Nevada – Las Vegas, Ithaca College, Texas Christian University, and West Virginia University. He is currently a member of the faculty of The Heifetz Institute and a viola coach at the New World Symphony. His former students currently attend and are graduates of prestigious conservatories, including the Curtis Institute of Music, the Juilliard School, Indiana University, and the Cleveland Institute of Music and are already achieving leading roles in the music world. Michael was featured in the November 2013 issue of the "Alumni Spotlight" in the Juilliard Journal and as the subject of Strad Magazine's "Ask the Teacher" column in the November 2013 issue. Michael Klotz resides in Hallandale Beach, FL with his wife Kelly and sons Jacob and Natan, as well as two dogs and a cat.     ZVI ZEITLIN (1922-2012) A faculty member at Eastman from 1967 to 2012, Zvi Zeitlin (1922-2012) was revered for decades as a violinist, pedagogue, chamber musician, and champion of contemporary music. Born in Dubrovna, Belarus, Zvi Zeitlin was raised and educated in Israel. At age 11, he became the youngest scholarship student in the history of the Juilliard School, studying with Sascha Jacobsen, Louis Persinger, and Ivan Galamian. He served in the RAF (1943-46) and concertized for troops throughout the Middle East and Greece. He made concerto appearances with such great conductors as Leonard Bernstein, Pierre Boulez, Zubin Mehta, Antal Dorati, Jascha Horenstein, and Christoph von Dohnanyi, and gave frequent tours of Europe, Australia, New Zealand, and Central and South America. One of Zeitlin's signature pieces was Arnold Schoenberg's fiendishly difficult, seldom performed Violin Concerto; his 1971 Deutsche Grammophon recording of this work with conductor Rafael Kubelik set the standard, and is still available. Zeitlin also premiered concertos by Gunther Schuller, Carlos Surinach, and Paul Ben-Haim, besides performing and recording a wealth of other repertoire in his long career; the Toronto Star called him "one of the violin world's grand old men, a true musical Methuselah." Along with his solo appearances, he was a founding member of the Eastman Trio (1976-1982). Zeitlin taught annual master classes at the Royal Academy of Music, Guildhall School of Music and Drama, and Yehudi Menuhin School. He was a faculty member at the Music Academy of the West since 1973, and a visiting professor at Chetham's School of Music and the Royal Northern College of Music (Manchester, England) since 1992. Zeitlin was named Eastman's first Kilbourn Professor in 1976 and Distinguished Professor in 1998. In 2004, he received the University of Rochester's Edward Curtis Peck Award for Excellence in Teaching Undergraduates. Zeitlin's students occupy leading positions in major orchestras in the United States and throughout the world; hold important positions in universities and music schools worldwide; and are major prizewinners in international and regional competitions. Zvi Zeitlin died on May 2, 2012 in Rochester, at the age of 90.   THANK YOU: Most sincere thank you to composer Jim Stephenson who graciously provided the show's musical theme! Concerto #1 for Trumpet and Chamber Orchestra – Movement 2: Allegro con Brio, performed by Jeffrey Work, trumpet, and the Lake Forest Symphony, conducted by Jim Stephenson. Also a HUGE thank you to my fantastic producer, Bella Kelly!   MIND OVER FINGER: www.mindoverfinger.com https://www.facebook.com/mindoverfinger/ https://www.instagram.com/mindoverfinger/   If you enjoyed the show, please leave a review on iTunes! I truly appreciate your support! Visit www.mindoverfinger.com for information about past and future podcasts, and for more resources on mindful practice. Join the Mind Over Finger Tribe here! https://www.facebook.com/groups/mindoverfingertribe/

You're listening to the Mind Over Finger Podcast, episode number 26. Welcome to the Mind Over Finger Podcast, discussions on mindful music making, efficient practice, and building a purposeful career. And now, your host, Dr. Renée Paul Gaultier. Hi everyone, hope you're doing great. Last week, I spoke with Jean-François Rivet, violinist, conductor, and professor who was my teacher and mentor for 11 years and had a definitive influence on who I am as an artist today. Jean-Francois and I had an amazing conversation about learning to listen to ourselves, paying attention, nurturing our imagination, live passionately, and broadening our horizons as humans and musicians.

It was an incredibly inspiring and meaningful conversation, and I hope you had a chance to listen to it. I'm really happy to continue this series on the pedagogues that shaped me as a violinist with a discussion about another giant in my musical journey, Svi Zeitlin. Professor Zeitlin was a faculty member at the Eastman School of Music from 1967 to 2012, and he was revered for decades as a violinist, pedagogue, chamber musician, and champion of contemporary music. Unfortunately, Professor Zeitlin passed away in 2012, but I had a wonderful time talking about him with Michael Klotz, violist with the Amarna Quartet

and senior instructor at Florida International University in Miami. Michael and I were colleagues in the Zeitlin Studio at both Eastman and at the Music Academy of the West. After graduating from Eastman, Michael became one of the few individuals to be awarded a double master's degree in violin and viola from the Juilliard School, and he was the recipient of the Tokyo Foundation and Gluck Fellowships while he attended the school. In addition to his activities with the Amarnet and his teaching responsibilities, Michael performs regularly with many of today's most esteemed artists, from James Ennis to Augustin Heidelich, Vadim Glusman, and Andres Diaz, and he serves as a faculty member at the Heifetz Institute and is a viola coach with

the New World Symphony. In this episode, Michael and I discuss our experience studying with Mr. Zeitlin and his lasting influence on our lives. As time passes, I'm constantly reminded that a teacher stays with you beyond the years you spend studying with him or her. The knowledge that they pass down to us grows and deepens, and it really becomes part of who we are. We then pass that knowledge to our students, continuing the legacy and the musical traditions. My years with Zvi were awesome and a bit scary at times too, but I learned so much from him then and I still keep learning from him every day by continuing to think about the things he said and to explore even further these principles that he would talk about in our lessons. Zvi was full of wisdom and knowledge

and such an incredible wonderful artist and violinist it was a true pleasure for me to talk with Michael and I think you'll enjoy our chat let's go to the show Michael Klutz thank you so much for being on the show today thank you it's a pleasure Michael, I remember vividly meeting you for the first time many years ago at Music Academy of the West. And you and I have shared many great memories throughout the years at Music Academy, like I just said, and also Eastman and New York String Seminar. And we had the privilege to share one more thing. And that's the chance to study with a truly incredible musician and artist, Svea Zeitlin. And I've been looking forward to this opportunity to talk about him with you for a long time.

So it's truly a treat for me to get to hang out with you a little bit today and talk about Zvi and about your career. For me also, yeah. I've been looking forward to this for a while. Michael, I've talked about some of your accomplishments in the intro, but I would love for my listeners to get a better picture of your musical journey and have a chance to get to know you better. So can you please tell us about you and how you got to where you are today? Well, I was born in Rochester, New York, and I began playing the violin at the age of seven. My mother was a violinist and a teacher. So I think that she kind of initially started me. And I learned how to read music, in fact, before I played the violin, which I think was a good thing.

And then I began studying at Eastman, at the Eastman School of Music, probably when I was before the age of eight. And I like to joke, that's not really a joke, that I studied at Eastman from the age of eight until 22, because I was studying in the Eastman, I think it was called the Eastman Community Education Division, which was like Eastman Pre-College. And I studied with a lady named Anastasia Jempolis, who was a wonderful person and teacher, very dedicated. She was known as a Suzuki pioneer. year. She actually went to Japan and met Dr. Suzuki and was one of the first people to bring

the Suzuki method to the United States and teach it. And then at some point in high school, I began studying with the late Lynn Blakeslee, who was a professor of violin at Eastman. That was really a wonderful experience. She had studied at Curtis and then in Europe and had lived in Europe and worked as a soloist and chamber musician and teacher for probably about 25 years before she came to Eastman. And then my senior year of high school, I had the opportunity to begin studying with Svi Zeitlin, who I think you agree with me was, for both of us, probably a very influential mentor, and for me, probably the most influential teacher and mentor that I ever had. While I was at Eastman, I probably shouldn't say this, but I was able to convince the dean or, you know,

the head academic administrator to let me start playing the viola and use that in place of class piano, which kind of came back to haunt me later. I'll get to that. But so I began playing the viola my junior year at Eastman, but not very, very seriously, just kind of picking it up and loving the C string and transposing Paganini and Viatom on the viola, you know, like a true violist. And then my senior year of Eastman, I decided to take the viola more seriously, all still while studying with Mr. Zeitlin. And I decided that I would audition for Juilliard on both instruments and try to pursue a double master's degree. And I was accepted on both instruments and then I studied so I studied at Juilliard and I played both and I really started

to gravitate towards the viola kind of a big guy and so the viola I thought suited me very well physically and of course I really fell in love with the sound and the more chamber music I played the more I really loved the viola then I was really privileged that I was quite active in New York while I was a student, playing in a number of terrific freelance orchestras, all while cutting class. And then in my second year of my master's degree, I decided that I wanted to look for a position of some sort, whether it was a teaching position, a quartet, or some other kind of chamber ensemble. There were a couple of orchestras that I was thinking to audition for. And I saw an advertisement for the Amarnet String Quartet.

And at the time, they had an opening for first violin and viola, which is a little bit rare, you know, for an established quartet to have two openings at once. But I had heard of the Amarnet simply because they came to Eastman when I was an undergrad and played on the concert series there and had seen the name in other places. And so I decided to audition specifically with one of my closest friends and colleagues at Juilliard, Misha Vittensen, who was studying violin there also for his master's. So we contacted the members and said that we would like to be considered as a pair. And they came to New York and auditioned, you know, a number of people, actually quite a number of my friends and colleagues from Juilliard applied and then auditioned. And yeah, then we

Misha and I were invited to join the quartet, and we began playing with them while we were completing our master's. And then upon completion of master's, I moved to Cincinnati, Ohio, where the Amarnet Quartet had a residency at Northern Kentucky University, which is very close to Cincinnati. So I said, well, if I'm coming from New York, I got to at least keep it somewhat a big city. So I chose to live in Cincinnati, and I really loved it. and began my professional life. So at NKU, I had students. I mean, I was the viola teacher, a viola professor, and the quartet was in residence, and I learned very fast. I think you really start to learn on the job when you have a job, and you learn things that you don't learn in school. But it was a wonderful experience. Cincinnati is a fantastic city with a long-standing

history of support for the arts and particular classical music and specifically chamber music. The La Salle Quartet, one of the greatest quartets in history, they were based in Cincinnati. They taught at the University of Cincinnati College Conservatory of Music. And it was really neat for me because when I moved there, you know, I thought, especially with the viola, I hadn't played for too long. I really only studied it formally for two years. So I thought there were still things that I wanted to learn. So I was very fortunate to have had a close relationship with Peter Kamnitzer, who was the violist of the LaSalle Quartet, and a fabulous musician, and also Henry Meyer, who was the second violinist of the quartet. And the Amarnet would play quite

often for both Henry Meyer and Peter Kamnitzer, and especially works that the LaSalle Quartet was well known for, like the Schoenberg Second Quartet, we learned under their direction. And then, of course, late Beethoven and things like that. And in the second year that I was living in Cincinnati, a job came open for a quartet at Florida International University in Miami. And one of my best friends, Chauncey Patterson, who was the violist of the Miami String Quartet, and they were in residence at Florida International University, had told me that they were leaving. So there was an application and the Amarnet Quartet auditioned and we were offered the position here in Miami in 2004. And so I was pretty excited because I had heard some

really nice things about Miami and, you know, seen a lot about South Beach on TV. So I said, well, I'm going to try to live there. That looks like fun. So one really neat thing that happened as a result of my association with Peter Kamnitzer is that he loaned me his 1619 Brothers Amati Viola, which was really very special for me. It really had been sitting in his closet. He hadn't played much in a while, but it was very, very nice that I had that opportunity.

And so I moved to Miami with an Amati. And yeah, we began in earnest in 2004 and very exciting. And I've been there ever since. I've been here ever since, I should say, because I'm currently in Miami. And yeah, it's been quite a wonderful experience. And not only from the quartet standpoint,

but the city of Miami is, I'd say, in the last 10 years, undergoing a major cultural revolution. There's really a lot of incredible things happening here in all aspects, not just in music, but with art and architecture and dance. And, I mean, the Miami City Ballet is one of the top companies of its kind. And, of course, there's the New World Symphony here,

the Arsht Center, which brings in all the top orchestras of the world, many of the top, I should say. And the other thing, since I've been here, I mean, I have, my career has sort of taken a number of different paths. The Amarne Quartet is still my principal. I'm still devoted to it principally as my main gig, I guess I could say. But I've been fortunate to, since I've lived in Miami, to have been invited to many prestigious festivals as a violist, both performing festivals, specifically chamber music, and also some of the premier teaching festivals.

And I have had some really, really terrific students over the years, which started in Cincinnati, actually. One of my, among my top students, of course, was Wesley Collins, who's currently the principal viola of the Cleveland Orchestra. And in Miami, I began working with a number of high school students in addition to my duties at the college. And it's just something that I really love. I really love teaching serious high school students that want to embark on a career in music and been very, very lucky and had some extremely talented and serious students that

have done quite well. Also, living in Miami, there are many kind of off-the-beaten-path opportunities that have happened as a result of living here, and I feel that I'm very fortunate to lead a kind of a multifaceted career as a violist here based in Miami. And of course, the quartet travels quite a bit, and with the Amarnet, I've had the good fortune to travel to the Far East and throughout Europe and Latin America and of course the United States and we get to play with some very very prestigious musicians people that I've admired and actually I'd say it's been kind of a dream come true in that regard there are people that we've been able to play with are people that I guess as a student I thought were unapproachable and

You know, when you're a student, you think, oh my gosh, such and such is just so famous and so amazing, and you admire them so much. And I still admire them, but it's, in many cases, nice that I feel fortunate that I've been able to share the stage with some very, very fabulous players and fabulous people, probably more importantly. and of course I should mention that I'm married and I have two children that also happened in Miami and well I'm not sure I guess we're going to get into the balance of life between family and but anyway yeah so that's that's who I am I would say that I love the professional balance of teaching and performing particularly with my quartet the quartet repertoire is like no other and still to this day inspires me motivates me and moves me michael that's a wonderful journey and you know there's one thing that you said that i would like to send as a message to all the students out there and it's really to know this right learning never stops and homeworks don't

stop either they just look different and i think that students think they'll get less busy when they're done studying, but quite the opposite happens. You just mentioned balance and I'm not sure that exists, but we'll see. Michael, I've been thinking a lot lately about the influence that those teachers and mentors have had in our lives. And I really am looking forward to talk about Zvi with you. And maybe we can touch on how this legacy continues through you. You mentioned some really fantastic successes from some of your students so I look forward to talking about all of those things can we start with you telling us a little bit about Zvi who was he to you and how was he as a teacher what were the main ideologies and techniques that he used

I'm actually tearing up a little bit I you know there's um Zvi for me was and and even remains even after his passing, a constant source of inspiration. And, of course, okay, so I'll back up. I first heard of Zvi when I was a kid, you know. I mean, growing up in Rochester, you know, Zvi's a legend, you know, and especially if you're a violinist. And Zvi was imposing, brilliant, deeply passionate, the highest standards. he had an encyclopedic knowledge of i think everything not just the violin you know but he

was he spoke i think seven languages or something and he was incredibly well read and knew the torah and the bible inside out he was just a brilliant brilliant man and you mentioned earlier about learning he was constantly learning constantly learning even at an advanced age it was incredible for me to walk in and see the man sitting at the computer typing emails uh maybe a little bit slower than you know people of the of the millennial generation but i fully believe that if we were alive today he'd be on facebook and texting and all that kind of thing you know what i mean so while he was of course very old school and and i think he was also somebody who strived for information and for learning and and you know constantly improving

I mean, the man gave a recital at the age of 89, shortly before his 90th birthday, which was, you know, unfortunately his last year of life. I didn't attend, but I watched the video and just amazing, amazing, you know, to play, to be at that age and play the way he did. And that takes, you know, constant dedication and hard work. And that's actually, that's what inspires me. His dedication to his students, although while we were there, it wasn't easy. I mean, I, people asked me, did you cry? Sure, I cried afterward, and I wanted to quit. He was very, very, very tough, you know, unrelenting. and I guess if I could levy one criticism he did tend to get a little too carried away

and sometimes he would get personal although I think deep down he really didn't mean it and then he would as fast as he would break you down he would build you back up so that was certainly to his credit I think that so how do I

so how do I well I keep a picture of him in my case and facing my students. I know it sounds kind of... But yeah, I have one picture in my case, and it's of him. And of course, I've made sure to tell my students all about him and his teaching methods and my lessons. And they know, they hear about him all the time.

If somebody came in to Zvi's studio and didn't play the violin so well, boy, did he teach you how to play the violin. whether you were you know had a god-given talent i mean different levels of talent obviously as you know uh entered our studio but i think you'll agree with me that he was able to bring every single student to their maximum potential that's true yeah through his you know through i mean i can't i think that i went through the entire road 24 caprices with him i probably lost years of my life in those lessons but you know they were i mean i i thank him for it i mean i wouldn't

have you know i wouldn't have the the technique that i have if it weren't for that you know his sense of rhythm uh that he instilled you know sense of detail not to take a piece of music and not play it uh like i remember studying the mendelssohn concerto with him i think you also did and uh i just you know of course we all played the mendelssohn when we're kids and we learned it a certain way and we all listened to Isaac Stern and Perlman and you know growing up but really the sense of taking a piece of music and learning it learning it every single detail all the right rhythms all the right dynamics all the right nuances all the right bow strokes you know in order to be able to play it and so I feel that what I've tried to do with my students is help or

instill that level of preparation, particularly when they have auditions. You know, I mean, it's not, you know, Tzvi used to have a lot of time on his hands. He was not as busy. When we studied with him, he was at an advanced age and no longer concertizing extensively and no longer raising children. And, you know, so there were weeks that I had four or five lessons. That was not easy. But, you know, when you're able to offer a student four or five lessons a week, you know you can get a lot of work done so so there is that challenge but i feel that i really try i try to be as detailed as i can the way he was with me in terms of how to use the bow using the bow expressively that was one of his principles you know i mean

he said to me once don't be a victim of your bow and that's something that i say to my students And through his, I remember really explicitly everything we worked on in the road. And that's, you know, something that I make a point of working on with my students. And as a result, I feel that they, for the most part, develop very secure techniques. And also with Zvi, there were so many funny anecdotes. I'm sure you remember them too. But I remember one thing. He asked me a question once, and I think I answered something like, well, honestly, you know how we do that, right? Colloquial, you know, say, well, honestly, he stops me and he says, I really can't stand when somebody starts an answer to a question with honestly. He said, because it implies to me that under normal circumstances, what you are telling me is a lie.

and so you know i i mean i just there were times i'm sure you felt this too like you couldn't win with the guy you know i mean no matter what what you said it was wrong you know i i remember once uh having a lesson and i played the dvorak violin concerto and i played it beginning to end all three movements which i really don't think i did that often uh because you know he was not someone to sit there and listen to you without saying anything but I think that I think that I had some kind of a competition or an audition or something and he for some reason I just played all three movements straight through and it was actually not bad I mean you know for me and he stops and afterward he says okay bravo bravo Michael fine fine good and oh this piece is so

beautiful so such beautiful melodies and it's so nationalistic and in a good way and i think i said something like yeah yeah i know and then he stares at me and he says no you don't know and then he just it was just like it's like he did a 180 and then for the next hour and a half just like berated me you know so on everything i did wrong uh and and that's the thing he was so perceptive you know so perceptive I mean any little thing he picked up on and fixed and addressed and I mean you couldn't get anything and so I will say that when I went to Juilliard for my master's and I also I studied with great teachers and people whom I admire musically but I guess maybe part of it was just kind of getting older and doing a master's but I

I guess I never felt quite as prepared with a piece of music as when I studied with Zvi. And as a result, I do still, I have some violin students that I love teaching and I really try to keep, you know, because I don't perform on violin more than a couple of times a year, but with the violin students that I have, I really try to keep their repertoire limited principally to the pieces that I studied with him because I feel that I know them the best. And, you know, I mean, I was fortunate to get through a number of important concertos with him and most of the Bach and, you know, some sonatas and stuff like that.

So, yeah, I feel that the best thing that I can do for these students is teach them the pieces that I studied with him. Not that I'm teaching them at the same level necessarily, but I think that, you know, since I feel that I know them very well, I'm able to impart them better to my students. I agree so much with you. Yeah, I know. I mean, right? But when you look, it either worked or it didn't with Svi. You know, you and I both know of many people who really quite gifted also who studied with him and they just couldn't take it.

They just, or, you know, or they said, well, what the hell do I need this in my life for, you know? And so they went elsewhere and, you know, that's fine. But I think those of us who really stuck it out and saw, you know, that he really wanted his students to succeed. And that's the other thing. I mean, after I graduated, I maintained a very, very close relationship with him throughout the two years at Juilliard. And then I had him a number of times perform with my quartet. Actually, we did the Chanson Concerto, you know, for violin, piano and quartet. and to this day I just we Misha and I uh my colleague in the quartet we still talk about it I mean it was really really special how he played it and both in Cincinnati and in Miami

we had him and uh we had him once we we did a Mendelssohn octet uh we had a string festival at our school at FIU and we invited Shmuel Ashkenazi another one of my mentors uh Tzvi uh toby apple who was my viola teacher at juilliard and yahuda hanani who was one of our colleagues in cincinnati and we played the metal snot tent we put svi on third violin like 82 or 83 and it was awesome he was awesome i mean he was you know it was you know it was really something and and and for me of course very meaningful to to collaborate with him in a work like that and uh anyway yeah i miss him terribly i really i think there's almost not a day when i don't think of him at some point you know one of the things that stays with me from

working with svi was really that importance of being very thoughtful when practicing just as you said and one of his favorites saying that i think about all the time is technique is conception and that really helped me shape the way i approach music and the way i practice and how i teach today and this mentality of never separating music from technique and I'm sure it must have been mentioned to me before I met him and started working with him but it really is in studying with him that I really started to get it yeah and I agree with you years after studying with him I would sometimes email him and be like Mr. Zeitlin you know that thing you were talking about I think I'm starting to understand you know and you know I was curious about the your thoughts on that

concept of teachers legacy I feel like it can easily swing one way or another too strongly you know and finding the right amount is it's really a balancing act like some students they absorb fully without ever questioning and that can create all sorts of problems you know starting with the fact that like how do you grow as an artist and develop your own voice if you don't take ownership of your learning experience and just stay passive during your formative years but other students are so closed up and unwilling to fully try and experiment with what their teacher recommends so they don't commit to giving it their best shot and there's also the the growth is not maximized and what I love about my experience with Sfi is that I feel like it's it's the gift

that keeps on giving, you know, like you said. And what I mean by that is that I took in and tried what he told me to do back then to the best of my ability at the time. And I never stopped questioning and exploring those concepts or try to explore those concepts further and making sure that I understood them fully and how they work for me. So how do you think students should receive and absorb their teacher's instruction. You know, how does that work for you, how you absorb Zvi's teachings and, you know, your other teachers, of course?

And how do you see how that goes through your students? And, you know, if you're a student, what would you tell a young musician? You walk in a lesson and get guidance from your teacher. What next? I think it depends a lot on where the student, for me, at least. It depends a lot.

The kind of teaching that I'll impart depends on where they are technically and and i think that for me what i've taken from tzvi more than anything is the very very detailed technical work that he does that he did with me um which of course always had in mind a musical result i mean it was never you know technique for the sake of technique and and but i feel that while i agree with him that technique is conception and and i and i always and i also use that mantra in my teaching i feel that some students in their formative uh years still need more specific technical assistance um which he did with me also i mean i came to him playing not really understanding how to use my bow and what to do

with my fingers and that kind of thing. So I feel like I spend a lot of time on that with students of all ages. Even some people, I'm fortunate that I get to work with some of the New World Symphony fellows who are all terrific players and ready to embark on professional careers. But I find that sometimes when I'm coaching them before an audition, taking them back to the basics of curved fingers and the right hand position and doing certain things with the fingers on the bow to help

articulation, that's all stuff that I learned from Tzvi, everything, all of that stuff. And I think that in terms of how to form an interpretation for a young kid, I guess I'm kind of jumping around here, but for a kid who's 15 or 16, who's quite inexperienced and that kind of thing, I advocate what Zvi did in my lessons. There were times he would play records of Huberman and Kreisler and even Izai that he had in his collection. And, you know, I tell the students, don't copy this, but listen to this. You know, I mean, if you're playing a Brahms sonata or something,

you know, the viola repertoire is not quite as sexy as the violin repertoire. But if you have, like, a Brahms sonata, you know, of course, first and foremost, take the score. That's also something that I derive from Zvi. Don't just learn the viola part. You know, learn the whole piece. And so I make them use the score in their practice and in the lessons. And then, you know, listen to X, Y, and Z, and don't copy them, but consider what they're doing. I mean, for me growing up, listening to Perlman and Zuckerman and Stern really helped shape my approach and my interpretations, not that I can play like them. But I think that that's very important. And I think that one thing that Svi used to talk about was, you know, elements of style. And, you know, don't play Bach like you play Tchaikovsky.

That's surprisingly something that I think takes kids a while to negotiate, you know, to understand. And so I spend a lot of time talking about style and I make them all do some, not dissertation, but I would say light research on all of the composers that they're playing. That's something else that Zvi insisted upon. If you're studying the Brahms concerto with, if one was studying the Brahms concerto with Zvi and you couldn't tell him something about any of the four symphonies or the three string quartets or some of the other significant works, boy, did he let you have it. So I think that one way that students will help form their interpretations are through academic study in addition to

their practice, kind of knowing significant works of the composers. And I consider listening academic as well and nowadays with all every kid seems to have an iphone so there's no excuse you know to not be able to you know quickly jump on wikipedia i don't know maybe i'm not supposed to say that you know or some other site or youtube and find very significant and really legendary performances i would have killed to have youtube back in 1996 at eastman oh my goodness i mean you to go to the library. It was a pain in the neck, you know, to go and listen to something. But we did it, you know. If we had to, we did it. So I think that the wealth of information that's available nowadays to students, and of course to us, is incredibly helpful in helping a student

shape their interpretation and approach to music. That's so true. Long gone are the days of the listening lab, right? I can't remember the last, I shouldn't say this, but like I can't remember the last time I was in a library. Michael, you mentioned really wonderful successes by some of your students. And how do you guide them into maximizing results in the practice room and preparing for auditions or performances? You know, you already mentioned spending time thinking about the elements of style. Of course, you want to work on the technique and really knowing the score, knowing the composer how do you guide your students towards preparing for these performances and these auditions well i mean for me really first and foremost is the technique um i don't

know i've become kind of obsessed with it but not in a bad way um you know i i really um i just do the best that i can to make sure that my students have control over every note that they're playing they really develop a strong sense of intonation. And I'm probably a little too picky on that sometimes. But I guess if you play out a tune, it doesn't really sound very appealing, does it? But beyond that, I really talk a lot about my experience as a musician and my experience taking auditions and playing concerts. And one thing that I had to work very hard to overcome, and I'm open about this is nerves you know I did struggle with nerves as a student and you know I managed and then of course I had some successes but uh I wish that I had had

somebody really kind of break it down to me the way I do for my students when my student tells me that they feel nervous you know and um one thing that I disagree with Zvi as much as I I love him is that, you know, is to say that, well, nervousness is a lack of preparation. Well, no, it's not, not completely. But so I think one thing that I am helpful with my students is we do spend a great deal of time over a period of time talking about nerves and how to deal with nerves and how to overcome and how to maximize every experience, whether it's an audition or a concert, And so I do think that I've, I'd like to think that I've helped a number of talented students achieve their successes through that work and through sharing my experience.

I think that when you, as a student or a young person, when you hear from somebody who, well, I guess, I hope my students admire me somewhat, but I guess when you hear from somebody that you admire, that they had this experience, and here's what they did, and here's how they've negotiated that, and here's how that became better for them, I can immediately see these students immediately are more at ease. And so I do think that my students are, in addition to being as technically prepared as I can make them, also very, very mentally prepared for their auditions and what to expect. And I go through every aspect of the audition. For example, the Juilliard audition is coming up. I have four students who are auditioning for Juilliard this year for undergrad. And with each one of them, I've walked them through step by step what to expect. And it's because I went there, although it was a little while ago. And again, it comes back from Tzvi, preparation.

Preparation is the key. And in this case, we're talking about not just musical and technical preparation, but also mental preparation. This is great. And, you know, I know you have to be on your way soon, but just to take you back. This is fun. just to take you back a little bit because you mentioned how Zvi was so insistent on on great technique and you seem to be as well and how how do you approach sharpening this technique how did Zvi do it and how do you do it now do you take your students through scales etudes how does that

look like so yes definitely uh yeah scales although I do use scales of course and oftentimes students, at least my younger students, they need to be responsible for scales for some of their various auditions that they take here. But for me, I think the etudes like Kreutzer and Rode are very, very important. And I work in detail on the various technical aspects that these etudes address. The other thing is, well, I really admire Zuckerman. I don't know him very well. I've met him before but i really admire how he plays and how he uses the bow and i i really have my students watch a lot of zuckerman videos and it seems almost very simplistic but i said try to copy that and watch his videos there's a number of videos on youtube where he talks about his

approach to playing uh and his approach to using the bow and he gets very detailed and i try to do that. I think that, you know, whether or not one is enamored of Zuckerman's playing, it's very hard to deny his prodigious gifts as a violinist and a violist. He has such a fantastic bow arm. It's just tremendous. There's some really great masterclasses with him talking about bow technique out there. Incredible, right? I mean, like I've watched, yeah, I've watched those all. And, you know again i mean it's somebody that i hope to to get close with one day but i i have a couple of students who are have studied with him also and so so i uh i really admire for me there's you know there's different kinds of ways of using the bow and i really admire the way he holds the bow you

know it's interesting he had a growing up in israel he studied with a lady named ilona fair And her, I guess you could say that her three most famous students are Zuckerman, Shmuel Ashkenazi, and Shlomo Mintz. And Shmuel Ashkenazi is somebody who I'm very close with. And although I never studied the violin with him, I consider him a teacher and mentor and somebody from whom I still learn. I'm fortunate that every summer I get to perform with him at a festival in Virginia. Yeah. And gosh, you know, it's a learning experience and actually just watching him, how he uses the bow, how he holds the bow, how he uses the bow. And I guess it may sound silly, but I've tried to copy that. I think that I think that I have it somewhat figured out.

So I teach my students from from my experiences is what I'm trying to say. I've been very fortunate to play with fabulous people and I watch these things. I'm not sure I should be saying this, but, you know, I watch how they, I really, I try to be as observant as I can of how people like, I'm just going to name drop here, you know, James Ennis, Augustine Hadlick, these are, in my opinion, the greatest people on the concert stage these days. And having been able to play even just, you know, some chamber music things with them was so educational for me, not to mention inspiring. And I use those experiences in my own teaching, in addition to the detailed work that I did with Svean Lessons. Michael, I wish we could keep going for hours. And I hope we have a chance one day in person. I hope so.

I hope I did okay. Oh, you did amazing. How about a round of rapid fire questions? I'll try. we've already talked about you know life balance and you told us a little bit about your career but for people that you know are thinking of a career that resemble yours can you tell us a little bit about what your life looks like okay well I mean it definitely ain't nine to five but yeah well you know so generally speaking I mean I divide my time between teaching at

FIU, rehearsing and performing with my quartet, teaching my, some very gifted pre-college students, and also, you know, some of my other endeavors that I do. So I do keep, not to mention helping raise two little boys that are five and seven. So I keep pretty busy. And I think that, you know, if this is something that some, but it's doable, you know, if somebody wants to do this they just have to realize that they're not going to have a normal state very stable life and things have to be planned sometimes at odd hours and life's mundane tasks have to be you know done when they need to be done you know so you just have to sort of make time for that what skills do you think musicians today should acquire in addition to learning to play their

instruments? I think that nowadays, you know, you keep hearing about young musicians, you know, people have to be their own entrepreneur. I think that's extremely true. I think that certainly playing proficiently and playing well and playing in tune are still the most important aspects. But beyond that, I think knowing how to talk to people, being presentable, being professional, um having a website an organized website having i think i do think facebook is very important although i guess facebook is now more of an our generation kind of thing my students are kind of like yeah facebook's for old people but i think that facebook is important i think instagram you know so social media is important i think be careful what you post on facebook um i'll just

give you an idea just without certainly being specific i was asked about some somebody you know to recommend for a festival and um well i mean i said that i think that they're a terrific player and a nice person but just take a look at their facebook and i'm not going to say anything more and you know you have to really watch out nowadays i'm not saying that everything has to be all love and roses but be careful what you post on facebook because it's become such a an integral part of everyday life. That's so true. Michael, is there a performance that has stayed with you throughout the years? And if so, why? There are a number, but I guess in keeping with the theme of today's conversation, I'll never forget when Sve played the Schubert

Fantasy with Mary Snyder. Do you remember that? Oh my gosh. Yes. I just, I still think about it today I think I can remember it very vividly and just the I just don't think I've ever heard anything so beautiful and so touching and actually just real quick I met when I was at Juilliard I chanced to meet a uh very an old-timer pianist named Leonid Hambro and he had he was a very distinguished career he played with Heifetz and Elman and Chomsky and all kinds of you know he's very close with with a lot of leading violinists i think he played for like the bell telephone hour or one of those shows but uh when i told him i taught i studied with svi he said to me you know i played a schubert fantasy with him and it was the greatest schubert fantasy i ever played

with anybody and he said and that includes hyphens and milstein so i mean i you know that really meant something so yeah i would say if i had to choose one performance uh that i heard that I'll never forget. It was that. You know, if I can throw in my own Schubert anecdote with Zvi, the summer after I graduated, he came and performed in Niagara-on-the-Lake for a chamber music festival. And the ticket was $25. And at the time, that was a lot of money for me. I was just starting out as a professional. And so paying $25 for a ticket was, you know, it was a lot of money. And, you know, I show up, I sit there and he was playing the Schubert duo. in this concert and just after the first note i turned to my friend who came with me and i was

like that was worth 25 right there the first note just you know you just came and got me and there's just something so celestial about that note that i was just uh you know you know when you're in the presence of greatness it was just amazing yeah yeah yeah totally wow yeah that's awesome do you have a favorite tool in the practice room probably my eyes probably my iphone for facebook um you know i i'm not a big metronome person or anything like that i'm not saying that one shouldn't use the metronome but um i don't really i can't say that i do i just kind of keep it too although i know i do use my phone because sometimes you know i i have to look something up. And it's nice to have the phone there. So I would say, in all seriousness, my

phone, because, you know, I can I have the information at my at my fingertips for something that I need. It's like having the library in the room with you instead of having to go to it, right? Precisely. Yeah, precisely. Yeah. Michael, do you have a favorite book that you would recommend to the listeners? I have a lot of favorite books. Hard for me to say about a favorite book. I once read a book that I'll never, that I never forgot called Tuesdays with Maury. It was written by Mitch Albom. And I actually have read that book several times. And this has nothing to do with music, although in a way it does for me. I, you know, basically a man, A college professor was sick and on his, you know, I forgot what, I don't even remember what the ailment was, but his student would visit him.

And the book is about his visiting with him and how much he learned about life and taking time to enjoy things. And so I think that for me, I think about that sometimes that, you know, when we get caught up in life's little things, just take time and enjoy what you have. You know, I have to sometimes do that, you know, just take a split second and really enjoy the fact that we're alive and we have feelings and experiences and there's beauty around us and stuff like that. That's a great book. What's an advice that was given to you that you would like to pass on to the listeners? Patience. Be patient. I spent a lot of my I was very impatient

when I was younger and it made things difficult and it's hard when you're a young person and especially when you're a young musician and you're ambitious and you're talented and there are a lot of them

people like that out there but I would say from a concert presenter that I'm friends with and very close with who told just you know be patient uh and that uh cream rises to the top you know uh it doesn't it happens if you're really gifted and and and you know serious and and devoted um you will get there um not no telling when but you will get there yes i love that some i tell students sometimes that patience is the quickest way to get where you want to be so yeah oh i like that i'm going

to start saying that i'm stealing that michael do you have a quick actionable tip that the listeners could implement today in their musical lives you should do it in this v voice too okay ready i told you we were talking before i said i was going to do a c impression look don't rush the rhythms you have no rhythm so develop some rhythm don't be fourth rate this is great it's so true too right there's worse but we'll leave that for another time michael do you have any final remarks you'd like to make before i let you go yeah i hope uh nobody hates me after this interview um no i'm kidding no no i mean really uh it was really a pleasure and i talk about three all the time you know i think that you talked about legacy uh for me it's really

really important to continue the legacy of such a great musician and pedagogue and professor. And so for me, the work that I'm doing, I hope, is in some way reflective of Zvi's legacy. And I think that history is important for all of us musicians, being informed of why we are where we are, you know, what brought us here, and to honor and respect traditions. Well, good traditions, because not all traditions are good. But yeah, I would say that that's important to know, you know, know your history. You know, no matter what instrument you play, know and respect and cherish good traditions. I love that. That was beautiful. Thank you for sharing that.

My pleasure. This was great. Michael, I'm going to put information on the show notes on where to find you and about the Amarnet Quartet. and but what's coming up for you ahead in the next few months so in april we uh we a number of things that we do that kind of annually we always play the haydn seven last words of christ my quartet in a glorious catholic church in miami beach really really incredible and the sound is just stunning in there and so we'll do that two days before good friday i guess during holy week I'm looking forward myself to returning to Fort Worth. I'm one of the resident artists of the Chamber Music Society of Fort Worth.

And so I play there a few times a year. So I have a concert there with the artistic director, Gary Levinson, who's also one of my best friends. And then a couple other things with my quartet. We have a festival in Miami called New Music Miami, which is based at our university and directed by my dear friend and colleague, Orlando Jacinto Garcia, who's the composer-in-residence at FIU, and we do some really amazing things. And we're actually playing a piano quintet by Pierre Jalbert, who's a really wonderful, well-known composer. So I'm looking forward to that.

And then, well, in May, I guess the summer season starts, and I'll figure out how to get from point A to point B at a number of festivals during the summer. I'll be at Heifetz again for two weeks, which I'm very, very happy about. But Heifetz is, in my opinion, second to none as a festival for young students and also older students. And then I'm actually going to, prior to Heifetz, I'll be in Montenegro at a festival, which has some really terrific European players. and before that I'll be in Virginia playing with Schmoyle

in that festival that I mentioned in Virginia Tech and some other really fantastic players and some stuff with my quartet so it'll be busy somehow I'll get through it Michael it's been so great to talk with you

it brought back so many great memories I know, we have to do this more often yes, I feel like I have a tank fuel of fuel for thoughts for several practice sessions. Awesome. Wonderful.

Thank you so much again for being on the show. Absolutely my pleasure. Thank you for having me. Thank you guys so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed this chat with Michael Klotz. Visit michaelklotzmusic.com.

That's Michael, K-L-O-T-Z, music.com to know more about Michael's career and concert dates. I would love to know what your favorite takeaway from today's show is. So look up Mind Over Finger on Instagram and Facebook and let me know. Also, if you're looking for a group of like-minded individual, join the Mind Over Finger tribe at facebook.com slash groups slash Mind Over Finger tribe for inspiration, motivation, support, and more discussions on how to take your practice to the next level and enjoy the process. As always, you can find the show notes for this episode, resources on mindful and deliberate practice, and more information about Michael at

mindoverfinger.com. Also, please do me a favor and head over to iTunes to rate and leave a review. I truly appreciate every single one of them. They make all the hard work worth it, and they help more people find out about the show. Next week, I'll be talking to Northwestern University professor Gerardo Ribeiro, who will give us advice on how to practice mentally and mindfully. A big thank you to my amazing producer, Bella Kelly, and thank you for being here. À bientôt! © transcript Emily Beynon