The Mind Over Finger Podcast - 046 Billy Hunter: The Power of Intention

Starting point is 00:00:00 You're listening to the Mind Over Finger Podcast, episode number 46. Welcome to the Mind Over Finger Podcast, discussions on mindful music making, efficient practice, and building a purposeful career. And now your host, Dr. Renée Paul Gaultier. Hi, everyone. This week, I'm really excited to bring you the principal trumpet of the Metropolitan Opera, Billy Hunter. Billy is a native of Austin, Texas, and prior to joining the Metropolitan Opera, he was principal trumpet with the New World Symphony and Spoleto Festival Italy orchestras and has performed as guest principal with orchestras in the U.S., Europe, and Asia.

Starting point is 00:00:54 As a chamber musician and soloist, Billy performs frequently in festivals and on stages across the world. He's a graduate of the University of Texas at Austin and the Juilliard School. Billy, of course, is an incredible performer and there's so much we can learn from him about practicing and performing. But the topic I wanted to talk to him about specifically was meditation. Billy and I were at New World Symphony together, and he picked up meditation around the same time that I discovered yoga, and I was able to see directly some of the impact it was having on his life, and I've been wanting to chat with him about this for so long because he developed such a mindful approach to practicing and performing, and I really wanted to share

Starting point is 00:01:43 his experience with you guys. In our conversation, Billy talks about how he used and still uses meditation and mindfulness in his life, how he maximizes his practice by setting clear intentions, how he centers himself before a performance, and so much more. I really enjoyed this chat and I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. Let's go to the show. billy hunter i'm so happy to have you on the show yay billy you have a great story and i'd love for my listeners to hear it in your own words and know more about you so can you please tell us about you how your artistic path has unfolded to where you are today sure so i'm from austin texas I started playing the trumpet in grade six, age 12. I went through the Texas band systems, which is like actually fairly, fairly excellent programs down there.

Starting point is 00:02:54 Didn't really take private lessons until the last two years of high school and moved on to college and stuff like that. Went on to UT Austin, Juilliard School, and the New World Symphony. And it was at the New World Symphony where I discovered meditation and learned different types of meditation from this ex-Thai Buddhist monk. And it was this point that – I mean at that point I had been taking auditions for quite a while, something like 30 auditions. And after I met with this guy, I won three auditions in a row, including my current position at the Met. So that's kind of like a brief synopsis from grade six till now. That's a great story. I was at New World Symphony with you and I remember you're such a force of nature.

Starting point is 00:03:48 I feel like the vibe was always so fun and energetic whenever you were around. And I remember, you know, you and I were together in this yoga class that our violist friend Adrian Somerville-Kiyami organized with a wonderful instructor named Jenny. And I don't remember her last name, unfortunately, Ryan, Jenny, Ryan, Jenny, Ryan. There we go. And it's funny because I've been trying to find yoga teachers that reminded me of her ever since everywhere I've been. But anyway, but I know what the effect that this yoga class had in my life, both personally and professionally, and really ignited my awareness and mindfulness in the practice

Starting point is 00:04:25 room and my performance preparation. And I got a feeling like you were talking about, you just met this person who taught you some meditation tools. And I felt like also you were going through a similar awakening, if I can call it that. And I'm so glad you mentioned it because this is what I'd love for us to explore a little bit today. And so can you talk to us a little bit more about this, how this mindfulness that you mentioned, it influenced your work, how you practice and how you perform? Sure. So just a little bit about the yoga class that we took. I was very skeptical at first of taking it because i i'd always been into going to the gym and working out

Starting point is 00:05:08 but i went to this yoga class and i just noticed my body felt different than um what it did when i worked out at the gym so that's how i kind of got into yoga just starting with the few people in the in the the the foyer of the the lincoln theater doing the yoga with that's right And then through that, we kind of migrated to the yoga studio on Española Way. I forget the name of that studio. It's like I'm drawing a blank. But we went to that studio, and it was at that studio. I was coming from a yoga class, and I see they had a special guest, this guy by the name of Nim.

Starting point is 00:05:53 He was sitting in a corner, and his energy was so strong. I went down to – I was like, I guess I should say hi to this guy sitting in the corner, right? I went down to shake this guy's hand, and his energy was so strong I started sweating. And he looks up at me in a very calm voice and says, oh, you should take my meditation class. I was like, wow, okay. And we went into this class, and, like, he basically taught us two different types of meditation, A walking meditation, which is kind of an immediate feeling that you feel something in your body, in your head almost immediately. And then the sitting meditation, which is kind of a more thing you do every day.

Starting point is 00:06:36 And it's the one – the sitting meditation is the most effective meditation for me. Now, for me, how it changed my approach to – I was basically using it for taking auditions, right? And so I had been doing well in some auditions. I'd get to the final rounds of this audition, and then some I would get nowhere, this, that. But anyway, I was averaging hitting pretty close to winning one of these auditions. And it was once I did this meditation class that I actually figured out how to have control over my body and the situation. And so tools that I did, for example, while I was in the waiting room waiting to play, instead of playing and tootling and fiddling around, I would just do walking meditation and focus in on my foot hitting the ground and walking and taking a simple step that you don't think about and thinking about that. And then what it does, it kind of gets your focus immediately, like a zoomed in, zoned in to the point where you're not like flustered by anything else that's happening around, which is very important when you're taking like an audition.

Starting point is 00:08:05 You're really in the moment. Yeah, in the moment. Yes. Thank you. Searching around for that word, that phrase. And what I would do when I was actually in on the stage, instead of just going in and just like playing everything down, you know, what I call playing unmindfully, I would do a mindful approach. And my mindful approach is looking at the music and saying to myself, intending to play well, intending to play well, intending to play well. So I would say that three times and say, and playing well, playing well, and playing well.

Starting point is 00:08:45 And then I would play. And it almost works like 100% of the time for me. But this is at the same time doing the sitting meditation. So, you know, you have to do this like sitting meditation every day. That's like kind of your foundation. And it's like when you get in the moment, you can do these little other quote-unquote meditation starters that help. And then like the regular meditation, it's like kind of a cumulative thing, and you just kind of feel naturally like, okay, I'm in the moment. I'm always aware of everything.

Starting point is 00:09:26 I have a certain amount of awareness. And I even got to the point I felt, well, I would tell whoever was listening to me behind the screen, I would tell them, like, you are going to enjoy this performance that I'm about to give. And I would tell them that in the same kind of manner, intending for them to enjoy my performance. Kind of. you know, intending, you know, and for me, you know, you can call it mumbo jumbo, whatever. But for me, it was it was very, very helpful. And it actually worked. There's so many things you just said that I find are so important. And so many things I want to unwrap. But then I hear you say this, you know, this mantra that you you repeat yourself intending

Starting point is 00:10:15 to play well, and all of the other things that you mentioned. And I really would like to know how this came about because I oftentimes find that we say something to a student or a colleague and then they go to the practice room and they try it without really trying to internalize it so I'm guessing and tell me if I'm wrong that to come to this it really something that you have to that you had to search for and get familiar with how did that start at the very beginning how did you start to implement these things that you were learning in the meditation into your practice to the point that you really found out that this is what worked for you well okay good question um so when i was doing the meditation class this this guy he's no he's not a musician at all

Starting point is 00:11:04 nothing related to music at all you know and um and he was just like you know we would do meditation and he would just talk about you know philosophy he actually he was i think he was like kind of like the buddhist philosophy you know without getting too like religious or whatever but like one of the things that you mentioned oh you know he would say things like um it's like oh you know you must have you know intention is so important if you intend to kill a man it's just as bad as like killing a man right you know sorry that's a bad analogy if you if you intend to if you if you intend to to steal this piece of gum this is just as bad as actually stealing the gum because the intention is there you know and so i'm just like oh wow this intention this intention

Starting point is 00:11:56 is a really really really big word you know it's just like a major part it's like and we we think about like well how how do how do things come into existence you know like for example this is probably a bad example too i'm just gonna say it you're gonna edit it out if you want to but like you said well well how do you where do you like babies like come from it's like well it's like a a thought right a thought he's like well let's have a baby he's like okay we both think about having a baby and then that thought becomes action reality you know so which is what where the whole mind thing comes from you know everything is is is created through thought you know and what's thought it's like kind of nothing but it's like something you know and it

Starting point is 00:12:40 materializes and so i guess what i figured out is like well this intention you know if i can use this intention i wonder if i can apply that to my my practice and so what i did when i went to practice my excerpts or whatever i would say well i'm intending to play this in tune and then i would record myself and i'm and i did a kind of experiment i did just i went the first you know just went in and just played it and then the second time i thought about it i'm intending to play this and and i did that you know doing one the other way one the other way and it was always successful and i was like all right i think i'm on this something here here uh with this intention thing and and i and i still use it today the philosophy of like well you know if you

Starting point is 00:13:27 have an intention it's like if you you know my my intention is to to make my listener feel happy when i play this tune that's gonna happen if you have no intention you know your your listener's probably not gonna feel anything there's a um this guy uh wayne dyer he he wrote a lot of different books and stuff he wrote a book that's really great it's called the power of intention that I, you know, I'd recommend like reading. It's a really good reading, but, uh, you know, he kind of goes a little bit more in depth than what I'm going now. But, uh, uh, this intention is a very, very, very powerful thing is, uh, with the meditation, I think, you know, uh, along with his intention. And then, you know, the other one is, um, awareness, which is like, you know,

Starting point is 00:14:15 mindfulness awareness, you know? Yeah. So when you're, when I meditate, I'm aware that there's things around me you know it's like i have this halo it's like and i'm and i understand that these things thoughts will creep into my head right but they're not going to uh destroy my focus right so um having having this awareness uh also helps as well you know like uh picking up my instrument it's like oh i'm aware i'm holding this instrument you know i'm aware that you know i'm taking a breath and then you do that it was like okay i'm aware that i'm not taking such a good breath here or i guess in your case i'm aware my my bow hand is shaking i need you know okay now i'm aware my bow hand is like nice and smooth okay you know that type of thing so so awareness

Starting point is 00:15:10 and attention is all part of like a kind of like the the meditation hole to gain like the focus what's amazing is that you talk about this intention but i hear you talk about having the intention in the practice room all the time so it's this presence that you have and it's the same presence that you bring in the audition room or on stage so it's that common element that the intention is with you at all times therefore the performance and the work are one in the same in the way i don't know if that makes sense so no no absolutely so my my whole philosophy you know i want to perform i i want to feel like i'm practicing when i'm performing i want it to feel that easy you know and i um you know uh i have a really good quote but i i

Starting point is 00:16:07 I probably can't, it's really funny, but I'll tell you later. It's very funny, but it's kind of like, uh, you, you know, if you want to, if you want to perform blindfolded, you have to practice blindfolded. Right. You know, so, so I, I do my practice and when I perform, I do the same thing that I don't, I don't change anything except for maybe my clothes or something, you know, performance clothes, you know, but like, you know, I try to keep it as close as possible. perfect practice makes perfect performance right yeah and it all comes down to when sometimes we practice differently than we perform meaning that we practice casually we allow mistake we don't have um this this well to use your own word this intention to play well when we practice we

Starting point is 00:16:58 just kind of move and or blow in your case and you know hope for the best and you know think that maybe it will come together in time for the performance as opposed to really just at all time play music right i should really mention part of my practice a really important part is which is also kind of like part of this like what i learned from the walking meditation the walking meditation is very slow you're breaking down like a step that you normally step like you know you just walk right you know when you do the walking meditation you start with like three steps and then you move on to like 10 steps you know lifting moving touching gretting blood you know and you step your foot right and into so you're breaking down

Starting point is 00:17:49 this one step into 10 different um uh categories right doing that you know so the the end when you look at people doing the walking man it's like very slow and so i kind of translated that to my practice so so if i have something like especially like a difficult passage that i can't play what i'll do is i'll just really slow it down and really like you know like and with intentions like all right i'm gonna intentionally slow it down and intentionally play it as uh perfect as i can because in doing it slow you're you're setting your uh your these little synapses those little channels that your nerves send like chemicals and stuff and electricity through you're setting up these um channels um so when you do get in this situation when you're planted at normal tempo

Starting point is 00:18:45 and you're in a high pressure situation, your brain's going to automatically just go with the most familiar thing. And as the most familiar thing is this like synapse that this channel that you created by doing things slowly. Does that make any sense? Yes, absolutely. And you talked about walking meditation and sitting meditation. what do you do when you do the sitting meditation is it the type of vipassana well i i just well i don't i'm so embarrassed i don't know the name of uh but i just sit in a comfortable position you can sit in lotus if you want or you can sit in a chair with your feet just in a comfortable position and i the way i started out i would actually start because i needed some

Starting point is 00:19:35 some type of like you know structures so i would start like okay i'll breathe in for like eight counts and then like breathe out for eight counts right and then focus in on the breath you know breathing in and out breathing in and out and then eventually that kind of um morphed into like uh the breathing into like uh trying to focus in on uh absolutely nothing so i was when i when i sit i breathe in and focus in on the breath and then i try to focus in on nothing which is hard you know the the masters say you can focus on on nothing for about nine seconds you know which is like a long time i can't even do like a split second but and that's when the awareness comes in and like you so you're like oh these thoughts are coming in i know they're

Starting point is 00:20:27 there i'm not going to ignore them i'm aware and and another thing which is part of the medicine is like the acceptance it's like i know that this is here and i accept that that's here and i'm aware that it's there but i'm not gonna let it affect my focus and what i love about what you're saying is that people are so afraid of trying meditation sometimes there's a real reticence there at just trying it because they feel like it's so complicated and difficult but it really is simple yeah and meditation is what you're talking about is that exercise of bringing the mindfulness back to the breath over and over and over i know that i think jack cornfield calls it um you know training the puppy you don't yell at it if it has a little accident you just bring

Starting point is 00:21:15 it back to its spot and over and over with kindness and love and and that's meditation yes yes so i also uh i guess i should mention this i practice uh bikram yoga so it's like the hot yoga you go and like and like they do like 26 postures and it's the same like you can do it in like tokyo or the u.s or south america it's like the same the same series what i like about this yoga it's it's it is difficult you know the the heat is used um just kind of as a tool you know And I kind of discovered this yoga when I had a knee injury from running. I wanted to exercise and I need something that's going to get my heart rate up so I can still stay in shape and all this stuff. And so I discovered this yoga and through that yoga, a byproduct that I got from the yoga was focus.

Starting point is 00:22:16 and it turns out this yoga is actually they call it a moving meditation so uh the whole class you're supposed to be uh mindful and aware of your body your surroundings of the heat and and what and and what to do and what not to do um uh within the class you know and and the and of course Everything is focused in on your breath and breathing and stuff like that. But it's a different type of meditation. And I do that in addition to my regular meditation. And do you meditate every day? Yes, usually in the morning.

Starting point is 00:22:58 And sometimes, like if I have some time in the evening, like before a show. If I have a difficult show, I'll do it before then and sometimes during the show. And that's the other thing. people think they have to meditate for hours and hours but just out of curiosity how much do you meditate in the morning about you know if i get 15 minutes in that's great you know i mean i got four kids you know it's it's like it's like ah and but i mean there's i mean there's definitely been times like when i was first started at you know i mean i sat there for a good i think the longest i've gone was like an hour and a half you know which was great you know you just feel like

Starting point is 00:23:46 light and floaty and it's amazing and you become aware of like your surroundings so much more you're very sensitive to to what's what's happening but there's still so much to be gain from 10 or 15 minutes yeah and it's like and and what i've learned is like it isn't you don't have to do an hour you can do five minutes as long as you're consistent with it you know it's like the consistency like practicing you know you do something every day you know it'll you'll notice a difference and do you feel like it helps you learn better when you practice this intention and this mindfulness absolutely you know that you because you're you're kind of going you're going about it without just kind of rushing in you have like a plan this intention makes you

Starting point is 00:24:35 have a plan and i and i i think that really for learning you know opens up everything and helps helps you understand all right okay i can i need to um do this or that or whatever you know but It kind of opens up your head, your brain, so to speak, like a sponge. So you're very receptive to stimuli. And that's really important. Billy, I feel like you should start a meditation for musicians retreat somewhere. I mean, I have a couple of musician friends who actually have a yoga retreat, and I've actually talked about it. You know, but I just got to, you know, these things you have to kind of like, you know, organize it.

Starting point is 00:25:23 And like and I got so many other like things. But soon, soon. That's in the back of my mind for sure. One of my projects. And as you say, you have four kids and you have a pretty important position. So I don't want to take too much more of your time. How about we. Oh, no, no, it's OK.

Starting point is 00:25:40 Jump to the rapid fire questions. OK. Maybe not so much rapid fire, but we'll see. I know I say that, but it's never rapid. What's your favorite tool in the practice room? Metronome, by far. Yeah, I think my students are going to think I paid you to say that. And you mentioned Wayne Dyer.

Starting point is 00:26:03 You mentioned Wayne Dyer earlier. Are there any other books that you would recommend for people who'd be curious to maybe find out more about meditation and how it could be beneficial for them? For me, I didn't read many meditation books, but that one, The Power of Intention, you can get that on a podcast as well. This guy, and he has several other books, but I would want to reiterate that book. That one has a lot of stuff, kind of similar stuff to what I'm saying. He kind of goes about explaining things in different ways, but I would recommend that book, The Power of Intention. That sounds good. Wayne Dyer.

Starting point is 00:26:47 What skills do you think young musicians studying today should acquire in addition to learning to play their instruments? Oh, for musicians, hands down, they should learn how to dance. There's so much music that, like a waltz. I remember when I was at school at Juilliard, we had a professor and he taught this class, Renaissance Dance Class. I'm like, what the? and it was like the most like educational most informative and most beneficial one of the most beneficial classes i took uh at school there he went through every single renaissance dance the moves the steps all right you're right you're you're the you know you're the lead you're the

Starting point is 00:27:31 follower this is what you do and i was like wow and he's saying so he had us do the dance and then after he did the dance we'd play music and then it made so much more sense like a you know waltz it's like that's a you know how many times have we had heard waltz is way too fast yeah right yeah yeah you know or too slow you know it's like it's it's interesting yeah so i and dancing and the thing we if you there's something related with like music dance uh art all that stuff you know it's it's to me it's all kind of interrelated and i i think you know just being a musician is just kind of um you know a boring but uh uh be kind of you're just like pigeonholing yourself into one thing you know it's like you know open up you open your

Starting point is 00:28:27 world up you know it makes you play the music better you know and even playing different types of music helps you play the one kind of music you want to play better that's really interesting you know there's another additional question i have which is not in the rapid fire as i said never rapid right um sure sure sure it's kind of going back to what we were talking about earlier but you were talking about how before meditation you went to many auditions and always came close and after that things changed and i think i can guess why but i'd love to hear it from you what do you think was the thing that made it from you making it to the finals and then you starting to win what was the one thing that changed it's the it's the meditation the the meditation that i mean

Starting point is 00:29:16 i wasn't doing it before and uh and i was doing and i knew and i was i mean i was confident and i I had the self-confidence. I did my practice, but I didn't have that meditation to put me over the edge. I guess maybe it took away the aspect of the anxiety of playing well, like anxiety of like, you know, I didn't win that one. I'm so, you know, why didn't, you know, and I'm like so anxious and angry, you know i just kind of accepted what was going to come out before it came out and like it's like oh this is going to be great you know though i think that was kind of the main difference you

Starting point is 00:30:00 know and i was kind of and that it just made me like i was saying earlier it made me play like i was playing in the practice room and i felt more comfortable so the comfort of comfort level was different yeah it like removed all of the interferences yeah and it just removes all that stuff that all and it is those little tiny you know maybe it was a little anxiety here you know a little anger here you know a little um uncomfort uncomfortable ability excuse me uh a little bit of like you know all these things mix mixed up and um and like collectively uh inhibited me from you know making that last step and so what the meditation did is just kind of erased all that it's like it's like you just be you like and like a and a yeah if they like it

Starting point is 00:30:58 they like it if they don't they don't and it's fine either way that's that's kind of what the meditation did for me and that was the difference between you know the first 29 and the last three i feel like it also relaxes us physically and just yeah helps in really allowing us to just step into the performance and be in the moment and instead of dealing with physical um yeah symptoms and i know a lot of people are into like taking like beta blockers and things like that but i truly believe that the meditation is a better option because you're taking that energy and not just like killing the energy you know you're you're channeling that energy like from the negative to the positive and that energy gives that that special something in their performance

Starting point is 00:31:45 like wow yeah i don't know why but you know when this person sings this phrase ah it just makes you know it just had so much uh um more life to it and that life is that energy that you get that your body naturally has that can go two different ways like you can go the positive way or the negative way you know and so what we have a tendency to want to do is like to get rid of it you know so we can just play things perfectly you know and like uh the way to get rid of it is to do the beta blocker that's the way that's just my philosophy that's how i see it yeah just an opinion billy is there a performance that stayed with you throughout the years and why yeah there's like i mean several different moments in my life you know uh when we were at a new world symphony

Starting point is 00:32:32 We did Tchaikovsky 4, I think, like two performances. And the first performance was just like totally like, you know, like, you know, botched it. It was like horrible. I was like embarrassed, you know. That's not what I was expecting. Yeah. And then I was so mad and upset. And then like, and it was with Michael Tilson Thomas.

Starting point is 00:32:58 And then the next day, we had another performance, like a Sunday, and I came in. I'm like – and this is before my meditation, but in a way, it was kind of like – I'm going to intend to knock this one out of the park, so I did have the intention there. And so we played this thing and we – and it was like an intense concert and like we get to the ending in the fourth movement when the fate thing comes back. And he turns to the brass section and he points at his – like kind of toward where his third eye would be I guess. And like – and he's like turning red and we're – the whole brass section. And we're – and he's like – you can just tell he's like – he's like pushing. He's like, are we going to break? Are we going to break?

Starting point is 00:33:57 And it was like one of the most intense moments. And I just remember we played that concert and I went – my buddy Carson and Andy, the tuba and bass trombone player, was like, hey, you guys want to get some food? Yeah, we walked all the way down. In silence. it's our food we we sat down and we looked at each other's like that was amazing and i you know and i talked to andy who plays in he's in minnesota uh now orchestra now and i i i to this day we still talk about that concert it's like that was one of the most unbelievable like unforgettable concerts like that that we've ever played i'll never forget it i've never had a

Starting point is 00:34:41 tried for like that since it was the best one yeah these are the moments where we became musicians right absolutely billy before i let you go how about a quick actionable tip that the listeners can implement today in their musical lives well i'm just going to kind of like repeat myself here like i tell my students they're so you know you know i i would say you know before you play something have that intention so say to yourself intending to play well intending to play well intending to play well three times and then say to yourself playing well playing well playing well and then try executing on your instrument and i think you'll find a difference on how you practice things and the results that come out from practicing things this way billy thank you so much

Starting point is 00:35:36 for this gift of your your time and your insight and i think that these were really really important concepts that you talked to us about today and i'm really grateful oh thank you thank you and uh hopefully i said something that's that'll be useful to students or whatever whoever listens and uh feel free to edit at will Thank you guys so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Billy Hunter. Personally, I really resonate with how mindfulness has affected every aspect of his playing. And I feel inspired to recommit fully to a more substantial meditation practice.

Starting point is 00:36:31 I feel like his example really shows the power of intention, how we can transform our practicing experience, our playing, and ultimately our performing from the inside out by having a present and deliberate approach to music making and by incorporating mindfulness in our lives in a more holistic way. And speaking of mindfulness, those of you following on social media know that I'll be doing a scale meditation experience every day until the end of October in the tribe. And this challenge was inspired by the last episode of the podcast, number 45, with Milan Milisavljevic, in which he talks about his mindful approach to practicing scale. And by the way, if you've not listened to that one yet, make sure you do. So if you're not already participating, I hope you join me in this scale meditation experience slash challenge, and maybe we can inspire each other to meditate more as well. Also, don't forget I'll be logging in live every Wednesdays at 8.30 a.m. Central to talk about college pre-screening recordings and how to prepare and record those. So tune in and send me your questions in the tribe. You can find our little group on Facebook at facebook.com slash groups slash mindoverfingertribe.

Starting point is 00:38:01 And don't hesitate to reach out to me at any time with comments, questions, and opinions there or on Instagram at mindoverfinger. And of course, as always, at mindoverfinger.com, where you can find the show notes for this episode and more information about Billy. and stay tuned because I've got great resources coming your way on the website very soon. If you've enjoyed this episode and you feel inspired by Billy in any way and found value in our discussion, please spread the word around. And if you're so inclined, take a minute to head over to iTunes to rate and leave a review.

Starting point is 00:38:41 Your good words make all of my hard work worth it and it's very much appreciated. Again, thank you and à bientôt. © transcript Emily Beynon

The Mind Over Finger Podcast - 046 Billy Hunter: The Power of Intention

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