The Mind Over Finger Podcast - 047 James VanDemark: Technical Discipline & Interpretive Magic

Starting point is 00:00:00 You're listening to the Mind Over Finger podcast, episode number 47. Welcome to the Mind Over Finger podcast, discussions on mindful music making, efficient practice, and building a purposeful career. And now your host, Dr. Rene Paul Gaultier. Hi everyone. Hope you had a wonderful week. I have another fantastic guest for you today. I'm really happy to welcome from my alma mater, the Eastman School of Music, bass professor James Vandermark. This episode is a mix of inspiration, food for thoughts, and concrete applicable tips to help you elevate your practice and take your music making to the

Starting point is 00:00:54 next level. James is a world-renowned and award-winning performer, academic, boxer, producer, and entrepreneur, and he's led a successful and highly diverse career spanning nearly four decades. James was appointed to the Eastman School of Music at the age of 23, the youngest faculty member ever appointed to a professional position at a major American music school. His students perform in many of the world's great orchestras, have been nominated for and won numerous Grammy Awards, and have held positions at major music schools. His performing career has included solo appearances with the world's great orchestras, and he's shared the stage as a chamber musician with ensembles such as the Cleveland, Guarneri, Muir, Colorado, and Yin

Starting point is 00:01:46 quartets, the Griffin Trio, violinist Yehudi Menuhin, as well as legendary pianists Andrew Watts, Alfred Brendel, and Gary Grafman. James has done so much more and accomplished incredible things in other fields as well. So I hope you'll take a second to read his bio in the show notes, because I've just only mentioned a very small part of everything that encompasses his incredible career. In our conversation, among many other topics, James talks to us about creating a technical discipline that leads to interpretive magic and about how crucial it is to have clear goals and setting the intention to build up our entire identity as an artist whenever we enter the practice room. I hope you enjoy this discussion as much as I love talking with James. Let's go to

Starting point is 00:02:40 the show. James Vandermark, such a great honor to have you on the show today. My pleasure. Thank you, Renee. James, for those of my listeners who don't know you, I hope they take a minute to read your bio in the show notes because this is one stellar career you have. And I'd also love for them to hear about your artistic journey in your own words. So please tell us about you and about how your musical path has unfolded. Of course, thank you. So I started off on a fairly odd career in an unusual place. I grew up in a very small town in southeastern Minnesota, Owatonna, Minnesota, a population of about 14,000 when I was growing up there. What is unique, remains unique about Owatonna is that despite the size,

Starting point is 00:03:43 it's always been a community of great culture and emphasis on culture in the schools, in the community, and in the industries that employed most of its citizens. So I grew up around music all of my life. I have two older brothers, two older sisters. All of them were wonderful pianists. Somehow or another, the piano escaped me entirely. My oldest sister, who with her husband taught at Northwestern University for many, many years, was my first piano teacher. And I think she wisely gave up on trying to teach me. It was that sibling thing, right? It doesn't always work. But nonetheless, I grew up around music of all kinds, I should emphasize, not just classical music, but jazz, Broadway, show tunes, rock and roll, everything was heard 24-7 in our house. So it was a really, really wonderful exposure. At a point, though, when I was 14, my parents decided that probably as an outlet for my, how shall I say, burgeoning teenage energy, that I better do something other than just get in trouble. So they encouraged me to join the high school orchestra, which had a fantastic reputation. So I actually wanted to play the violin.

Starting point is 00:05:19 And my parents said, we would prefer that you not play anything that was so screechy at the beginning. That was their take. Anyway, so I took up the bass, immediately fell in love with it. And, uh, my high school orchestra teacher thought even after a few months that, uh, he wanted to steer me to a teacher, uh, in the Minnesota orchestra then known as the Minneapolis symphony. So I began private instruction there, um, again, in a small town without having a lot of other distractions. I practiced an enormous amount for the first several years, made my debut with the Minnesota Orchestra when I was 15, got invited back for a few more performances. I started playing in the St. Paul Chamber Orchestra as a member of the orchestra and principal during the summers when I was 16. Ended up in Canada when I was 17, which is a very interesting part of my career. I was principal bass of the Hamilton Philharmonic, which was an orchestra then that was sort of a national experiment in Canada, and that almost all the full-time musicians were brought in from elsewhere, including Czechoslovakia.

Starting point is 00:06:39 Slovakia. The Prague Quartet was some of the string principals. There was another string quartet that was in residence that was comprised entirely of former members of the National Arts Centre Orchestra, several members of the Toronto Symphony left to join us. And there was this new brass group that formed there called the Canadian Brass. So it was a really superb chamber orchestra that I was lucky enough to be part of. I then also was introduced earlier in, I should say, about as a teenager to Gary Carr, then sort of the reigning double bass player at the time,

Starting point is 00:07:22 had some lessons with him. But while in Canada became acquainted with Paul Katz, the cellist of the Cleveland Quartet, who was really just down the road across the border in Buffalo, where the Cleveland Quartet had taken up a residency following the residency of the Budapest Quartet at SUNY Buffalo. So I began regular private lessons my last year in Canada, commuting to Buffalo to study with Paul Katz. Subsequently attended the University of Buffalo full time to finally get a degree. I should point out that I'm a high school dropout.

Starting point is 00:08:01 It's true. I finished my junior year of high school and then went to Canada to play full time. So anyway, I did get a degree and enjoyed my time immensely studying with Paul Katz, being around the Cleveland Quartet, being in that milieu of really superb and dedicated string players that had an enormous influence on what I did from there. But that's sort of how it started. Of course, there were other roads along the way that were interesting, going to Aspen, both to study with cats, going to the quartet program, which was then run by Charlie and Heidi Castleman, where I spent several summers. Very, very worthwhile thing to do. And then private study with Leonard Rose, which was also invaluable to me. This is an amazing story. I love it. And subsequently ended up teaching at Eastman for so many years. That's right. The Cleveland Quartet and myself actually all came to Rochester in the same year, 1976. They began their residency here at the same time I did. Obviously, many things changed for them. And I'm still here, which is fine.

Starting point is 00:09:20 i've had a really grand time it's been a grand ride and i'm expecting it to continue for some time yes it has been a grand ride and i was reading about you and i went to eastman so i i know a little bit about you as well and um but you've been described as a virtuoso and you have vibrant solo career and a really impressive teaching experience i just feel like not saying another word and letting you talk to us about practicing and performing okay one thing too that people should know about you is that you're a wonderful storyteller so i'm very much looking forward to this conversation that we're having right now oh renee you can become my publicist great well well thank you for that sure no i'm i'm delighted to talk about performing

Starting point is 00:10:11 practicing how i try to do it how i've tried to do it because of course i think looking back on it i mean for all of us so much of what we do is a process of evolution as an instrumentalist as a performer as a teacher i mean inevitably i think all those things become intertwined at some points in most careers. But certainly for me, I think I followed what was probably not too unusual a path initially in terms of practice and study as well. And that was the initial emphasis for me, Again, primarily before Paul Katz was placed on technical study, etudes, scales, arpeggios, and basically not necessarily following a standard that had been set, but simply doing it. And it was not, I think, that mindless a repetition, because I certainly had been exposed to music and musicians of fairly high level fairly early on. But it was, and again, perhaps it was my immature teenage brain, but I think at the time, much more of it was sort of automatic.

Starting point is 00:11:47 Luckily for me, I think I had enough coordinative skill at the time to make some things develop fairly easily in terms of fluidity, reasonably good intonation, other technical aspects. I think in time, I think largely also through the influence of other musicians that I know who said, oh, listen, you really need to listen to all the recordings of Heifetz, Kreisler, Oistrakh, Piotr Gorski, Starker, Rose, anyone. After hearing a lot, I think it became apparent to me what my other teacher later, Paul Katz, was trying to tell me about using the bow in the most imaginative way, making that an extension of really your imagination. And yet having a left hand, he hoped, I hope every day, that is as immaculate as it possibly can be. And I think being around Katz, Charlie Castleman, Rose, really elevated my game. And I should point out that I wasn't necessarily intending to have any specific sort of career while I was studying. My sights weren't set on the career. My sights were set, frankly, on playing as well as possible at that moment. And I think one of the things that Katz said is live in the moment, play in the moment, the rest, if you're lucky, will happen. And a lot of it is luck. But devoting oneself, I think, to the moment of making it as good as possible at a technical level, whatever one is playing, but also reaching for some kind of interpretive magic by having the technical discipline that can lead you to that was really kind of sage advice. So that's what I tried to pursue anyway.

Starting point is 00:14:05 I love that you call it interpretive magic. Well, that's, I mean, for me, that's what an exciting performance is. You know, we're not always going to get there, but I think we have to strive for it. And that can be applicable, I think, to almost anything. It's at least our highest standard, whether, you know, we're playing, you know, a traditional concerto, a contemporary work. Or for that matter, playing an audition, albeit the parameters of playing a successful orchestra audition are different, somewhat different, but it still harkens back to much the same thing of knowing what one has done in the practice room every day, every minute, that builds up and that should be building up one's complete identity as an artist. every time you go in there. And that's, you know, that wasn't necessarily clear for me as I began, but it began to become much clearer, both through study and actually also through

Starting point is 00:15:20 teaching and very much through teaching to see how every individual student develops because everyone does develop somewhat differently. But I do, as most people also do, try to insist that there are some standards, first of all, that one must shoot for, and I hope adhere to. And there are certain ways of getting there. There are certain things that one will do, be it technical or interpretive or imaginative that most people can follow, but there's, everyone has a twist because we're all different as it should be. And what are some of these maybe habits or attitudes that your students have that helps them grow? Like when do you see the most growth in them? It's so wonderful that you asked this question at the beginning of the school year.

Starting point is 00:16:21 here at Eastman. No, it's true. Because invariably, it's, I'm expecting this now in about one week, that most of my first year students will come to me and say something like, you know, this month has really been remarkable. I feel as though I have landed on another planet. And that, of course, can be interpreted a few different ways, right? But the idea is that what I hope they see is a standard of awareness, not just of what we'll call the music, but of themselves physically, artistically. and i leave this up to them internally so that one thing i think for many younger students possibly on other stringed instruments as well but certainly on the bass a lot of teenage players have sort of an automatic response to the instrument um they you know most teenagers including myself had you know a certain element of awkwardness

Starting point is 00:17:42 and that grows out at a point but to become aware for example of breathing seems very basic and yet many of them have never heard anything about it how do you make certain that you have enough control over breathing in your practicing so that when you're playing a scale when you're practicing subject shifting exercises uh arpeggios you know slurred scale patterns, separate scale patterns. How tight are you? How relaxed are you? What's the tension in your arm, right arm? What's the tension in your left arm? All of those things. So it's having a real complete awareness of your physical identity as a musician. That is so true. And going back to what you said earlier, which I think is so important, when you mentioned this process of

Starting point is 00:18:38 evolution. And I loved also what you were talking about focusing on playing as well as possible in that moment. That's mindful practice. Absolutely. Yep. Yep. That's right. I agree. And I think, as you say, mindful practice is something fortunately now most people can identify with. We might not all be able to do it, but it is a critical component of advancement as a performer, and it is going in usually with a fairly set game plan of what the student should be doing that day. I think probably guided to some extent by their teacher initially, but knowing, you know, here's what I can do in stages to build up both a physical awareness, the aural awareness, so that they have a far better trained ear. and a lot of this is you know as you and most of your listeners know it's done in stages you go through scales of all kinds uh chromatic scales uh major minor you name it um but there are other things as well that i certainly try to do i try to make my students sing a lot um so that they

Starting point is 00:20:07 don't simply become uh overwhelmed by trying to match a tuner or for or other things a drone or something like that which misses out on the notion of actually having relative pitch as we perform so i try to develop have developed exercises that i hope lead to things uh that allow one to build confidence in playing uh so that whatever the circumstances an audition a concerto um your practice your mindful practice every minute of every hour that you have put in leads you to that experience rather than only thinking that um you know fairy godmother is going to go boink on your head at the moment and inspiration and greatness will follow It doesn't happen that way, except for, you know, very few prodigy types who've had something very early on and also great teaching that it seems so natural.

Starting point is 00:21:18 But I think one of the things that happens for many, particularly for bassists, is that the size of the instrument actually puts them off in a way. And they're always trying to accommodate the instrument rather than recognizing that their own physical skills need to be somewhat different to dominate the instrument to succeed on it. And as you say, we really have to tune into that internal experience. Right. Yep. So I think, and again, so much of that is breathing. And it's not to suggest that I'm a yogi or anything like that. I'm not. I do a few yoga poses every day, but that's it. But the notion that most people, when they play at lessons, at a concert, an audition, They seize their breath. It's very simple. They choke. And that, in turn, minimizes and tightens movements right and left hand. Once you can get past that through any number of things, and different things work for different people, but then suddenly your emotions are freer, they're bigger, they're more powerful, and they can be faster and more accurate. But it's a process to get there. One of the concepts I talk to students a lot is one of beginner's mind.

Starting point is 00:22:49 And that has two sides to it. And one of them is monitoring the basics. Because oftentimes, I feel like we are dealing with a difficult passage and we automatically go for the complicated route. When if we just go back to lesson one, posture, and as you say, breathing, oftentimes, that's where the issue resides. So to always go back to the source and monitor what seems to be so simple, but they tend to be the first things that we forget. Yes. And I'm very glad also that you brought up posture. Posture has an enormous influence on breathing, on strength, on stamina. The first lesson that I have with a student is invariably about posture. um balance is so critical whether they're standing or sitting and if they're standing certainly it's sort of balancing their own weight and making certain that the instrument is balanced

Starting point is 00:23:49 in such a way that they're not exerting any undue pressure with their left hand to hold the instrument up so that the instrument doesn't fall or move around when they shift um that becomes a critical thing when you're shifting all the time on the base mastering shifting is so critical because the span for most hands is generally only a whole step on the base uh not very much so we're we're obligated to do a whole lot of shifting um so having that becomes sort of a bigger and constant physical challenge. That's why the posture, the breathing, relaxation leading to power is so critical on the base. And to make that very concrete for the listeners, let's say you're dealing with a very difficult

Starting point is 00:24:48 passage, maybe one that deals with a lot of shifting. And as you say, in the base, they probably all involve a lot of shifting. You've already mentioned a few things such as singing, but what are some ways that you would practice a passage like this? Maybe some favorite exercises and how that works. If you could please describe that process, that would be great. Sure. So without giving necessarily a specific passage, we'll just presume that it's something that's going to be fairly acrobatic and go all over the instrument. So first thing that I'll usually do for myself and for many of my students is make certain that they're doing that passage.

Starting point is 00:25:34 Let's say it's a rapid one that has got even a complex bowing in it. I will have them play through it slow tempo legato and forte Just to be sure that everything is connected, they'll learn it with very specific, say, even quarter notes, slow rhythm, connect it. Because the connection means if you're playing it legato, your left hand can't sin as much as it might if you were playing it staccato, right? If to make a smooth connection, your left hand has to be in really, really great shape all the way, and you have to time your shifts better between the bow changes. So I try to make them learn it that way first. I often have students learning difficult passages or anything, practice in front of the mirror when it's slow. Don't watch the music. That's another thing. Again, it's just a constant for me. Many students look at what's in front of them as if that is indeed the real music.

Starting point is 00:26:51 It's not. It's a piece of paper. It's a fabulous guide. We are the music along with our instrument. There are sort of two components, the player, the instrument. So the mirror gives, for most, a really good view of what somebody's doing and trying to master this difficult passage. So slow legato shifting at an even, steady tempo, not necessarily observing the complexity of the rhythm that might be on the page yet. once that is there it's set and it might not happen right away it might take a day or two or more then other things are put in piece by piece the bowings the slurs the staccato

Starting point is 00:27:38 um i will after the initial suggestion of getting it set with a strong hand and a strong bow i'll also say all right now we'll slowly add the musical inflection does your bow speed have to increase through this gesture do you want to have something that will have a particular say you want to have a dramatic thrilling upper note that's going to lead to something in the bottom should we play the upper note on a an increasing bow speed a crescendo that'll probably be an up bow can you master that crossing now going from a higher string down to a lower note on the lower string have it just the way you want whether it's going to be legato as indicated by the composer or do you want to have a throat and then boom something very big at the at the bottom so

Starting point is 00:28:28 essentially you practice in the musical gesture as much as a component of what's going to happen eventually um and that's not to rob something of spontaneity there will almost invariably be spontaneity in what we do right in a performance we're not going to become automatons but i think that the idea if we can keep doing something that's very difficult and physical stay relaxed but we're staying engaged mindful then we'll also have the confidence of having done it repeatedly in the practice room so that we can when the moment comes have that ability to play with it and yet own it technically and that's very important to repeat the experience of the practice room on stage because oftentimes i find that um maybe we all do it but there's

Starting point is 00:29:28 a mindset that we have for practicing that does not translate so well on stage so i think that what you're saying is so important that we really need to just have the all of the gesture and the feelings of the music physical feelings and as well as the interpretation of course in the practice room as to have an experience on stage which replicates what we're doing right yeah i couldn't agree more the more we have actually although we build it in stages we can have the concert experience in our practice building it bit by bit by bit then the concert experience is not that foreign to us we've been doing the same thing yes there'll be an audience there but if we prepared correctly in fact frankly some point if we introduce a small

Starting point is 00:30:22 audience into our practice this is why teachers also hold studio glasses and things but even individually if we you know i encourage my students at a point okay bring in someone to your practice room. You are now ready for this, preferably not someone who's going to give you a lesson. This is going to be your audience. Bring in a couple of your friends who are not bassists. Just say, hey, I need to play through the exposition of this. I've been working on this. See what happens. Then say goodbye. Take notes. Come back. Do it a day or two later for someone else, just to kind of have that ongoing. So it becomes more and more a common, albeit, I hope, an experience that we get up for. So we get inspired for whether we're playing for two people

Starting point is 00:31:17 or 2000 people, we've done it enough to know how to turn on at that moment, because it's all been part of our study. Absolutely. And what you just said made me think of something you mentioned earlier that I think is so important when you were talking about listening to all of these recordings and really training your ear and increasing your knowledge of all of these different types of sounds and articulation. And I think that's something that definitely student, probably myself as well need to do so much more which is to listen with a very active ears with very active ears but also maybe a very active imagination right yeah absolutely and i love the fact that you mentioned imagination because um when when i was doing a lot of

Starting point is 00:32:13 listening, um, to particularly artists of the past, um, there weren't any YouTube videos of Misha Elnott and, uh, you know, just a few things that you could see of Heifetz and others. And so you had to imagine it and see it in your mind's eye, your ears eye possibly, um, so that you could envision it, but hearing the differences and the subtleties that all of these string players would bring to an interpretation and comparing them. It was great. And I think now with, you know, the availability of the visual as well as the aural for this, I hope it can enhance that. But it ultimately becomes, I think, incumbent upon the listener to really immerse themselves and their own imaginations with the physical awareness or imagining what the artist is doing to make this happen. I mean, to see Janine Janssen play something is very different than watching Heifetz play something, right? Or, you know, contemporary artists, and they're both marvelous. They both go about it very differently. And on and on and on. One could say that for really any stringed instrument.

Starting point is 00:33:43 But it's a marvelous thing, I think, to see that there is an enormous amount of individuality in performance today, as there was in the past. Some would argue there was more so in the past. But still, they're great performers. What makes them tick? And I think it was certainly impressed upon me to hear and listen and watch for that from the artists that Katz particularly would steer me to. And he'd say, you know, watch this lady's bow arm. She is extraordinary. What does she do? Here's how this guy does the vibrato. Watch it. It's very different.

Starting point is 00:34:29 He has a very different thing than I do, referring to himself, but it works. And so I think it's someone pointing out in a generous fashion the notion of what makes a really great interpretation, which is not necessarily yours, but is something that is convincing and persuasive. That is so true. And with listening more and sharpening our ears and our senses to what we hear, that's really how we can actually improve the technique because without having a clear idea of what we want to hear and what we want to produce, the technical work is maybe more aimless. Yes. Yep. Exactly. Totally agree. I want to bring up a thing that maybe you're tired of talking about, but I remember years ago, this article came out, I forget in which journal, where you were talking about your experience with boxing and how you brought some students at Eastman to practice the sport with you and what it brought to them. Can you talk to us a little bit about what boxing brings to you and what you feel like it brought to your students as well? Sure. So about 12, 15 years ago, I decided that I really wanted to have something that was going to, I wanted to do something with some athletic training that I was looking to kind of improve my stamina, everything about playing.

Starting point is 00:36:12 I just wanted to be assured that I was going to be able to continue for as long as possible, not that there was any threat coming to me physically in my early 50s. But I just wanted to be certain that I could do this for as long as I possibly could. And someone said, hey, go to this boxing gym here. You'll get the most amazing workout you've ever seen. I can preface this by also saying that in my family growing up, the three or four main components of family life were music, literature, politics, and sports. So both my brothers and sisters were very, very fine athletes in addition to being decent pianists.

Starting point is 00:37:05 So I grew up in that. So it just sort of took a hiatus for a while. But then I discovered boxing, which indeed is a fantastic sport, not necessarily of just hitting things or people, but in terms of conditioning, it's probably considered the most complete conditioning sport one can imagine. plus it is all taught in rhythm so that there's the similarity to music everything that you do whether you're learning basic punch drills are taught one two one two three one two one two one two three one two three four five you mix this up in a way after learning you know basic eighth notes. And then you essentially go into triplets, eights and sixteenths, and improvise. So it's learning seven, eight different punches in different rhythms with a lot of other motion. So you have to stay incredibly flexible. You have to develop your reflexes to a very high degree.

Starting point is 00:38:15 and you have to develop your mindfulness your awareness of your opponent always right we can miss and now nothing happens but if you're not mindful you'll get hit so it's uh you know there's a bigger penalty for that so um anyway i became quite enamored of it my students loved it continue to they find uh both the physical aspect of it very enjoyable and also i think there's a mental health component that you can go to a gym and hit a heavy bag. And imagine that's the picture that you don't like at all, which is fine. All deserved, right? So that's continued for some time. And I continue with that. The challenge for me is that I can't, because of my age and my size, I'm not a very big person. I don't have any real sanction fights because it's

Starting point is 00:39:15 nearly impossible to find someone at now almost 67 who weighs 128 pounds, who has a certain skill level. So basically, I spar with the former New York State welterweight champion, who's 30. And, you know, a few years younger than I am, but we have a grand time. And it means also that I have a tough opponent that I get ready for. We don't do it a lot, but we do it, you know, enough to make certain that I'm staying, you know, as sharp as I can. And the notion of breathing, stamina, all of that relates so much to what we've been talking about. Confidence too, to be able to, here's what i'm fairly certain of at this point by practice it's the same thing exactly aside from the part where there's an opponent and you get hit it it sounds like you're describing musical

Starting point is 00:40:13 practice absolutely well exactly and yet in boxing um as it is not a team sport really the biggest opponent is yourself you know it's what you put into it what i love about this as well is i don't do boxing, but I remember the first time I made a real parallel between another discipline in music making was with yoga. And I'll remember the class forever. And I told the anecdote on the podcast before, but just being in the posture and the instructor telling us to really breathe in and release the tension while the muscle was very, very active.

Starting point is 00:40:57 And in that moment, it really resonated with the passage I had just been practicing maybe an hour prior and was really struggling with. And this light bulb went on and I really realized that actually not all the answers related to music or my instrument or my playing are in the practice room. But if I take the process outside, if I continue the pondering and the problem solving process, I might find the answer, you know, on the yoga mat or maybe in the boxing room. Yes, exactly. And I think that's also, first, a very astute observation. The answers for playing, because it is so physical, regardless of what stringed instrument we have, the answers might well be found outside of the instrument. or some part of the answer. And that, I think, is one of the reasons why I continue this, because I've found, particularly for my bow arm, that I believe here, even at a fairly advanced age, that my bow arm has improved immeasurably since I started boxing. Wow. James, I would love for us to continue talking all day, but how about a round of

Starting point is 00:42:18 rapid fire questions before we wrap this up. Sure. Absolutely. What's your favorite tool in the practice room and why? So you may have guessed already from what I've said. For me, it is the mirror. For my students, I try and recommend probably the mirror and the metronome. And then at different times, I also suggest a blindfold. So they're not completely watching their shifts all the time. They need the confidence to trust that they're moving from the physical, the kinesthetic and kinetic sensation and oral memory. Do you have a favorite book that you would like to recommend to our listeners? I read a lot. For a musical book, a book that's recently just come out in paperback, there's a marvelous biography of Toscanini, Toscanini

Starting point is 00:43:11 musician of conscience which says it all by harvey sax and for non-musical things um for i think teenage late teenage readers a marvelous marvelous book is the shadow of the wind by carlos ruiz zafon um fabulous kind of a magic realism book but really something that i think excites young people, as I've seen. And for something completely different, I'd recommend something called A Gentleman in Moscow by Amor Towles, which is a wonderfully polished and yet very funny book. And now we all know who to call next time we need a book suggestion, for sure. Oh, okay. All right. I'm fine with that. James, what skills do you think young musicians studying today should acquire

Starting point is 00:44:03 in addition to learning to play their instruments? first of all i think ear training is very critical yes it can come through the instrument but anything else one can do with that i had to learn a piece uh not that long ago in which i had to sing as i played and yet it was all atonal ha so that was a great great skill it was sort of like a DMA sight singing exam and theory. But in addition to really fine ear training, I really recommend reading, learning how to write, and frankly, acquiring excellent manners. Because music is also a social endeavor. And we need to know how to interact with all sorts of people all over the world, sometimes under challenging circumstances.

Starting point is 00:45:00 Excellent. Very wise words. What's a habit that you have that you think has contributed to your success? Other than taking an afternoon nap for 10 minutes every day. Whoops, time to go. No, actually, I think one of the things I persevere, And I think I try to do things that stimulate my imagination, which is not exactly a habit. But I think between the two things of perseverance and trying to keep my imagination going, contradictory things, but so is everything in art, frankly. Mm hmm. That's for sure. James, I've heard some of your concert anecdotes before. So I'm very much looking forward to your answer to the next question. Okay. Is there a performance that has stayed with you throughout the years? And if so, why? So I could talk about hearing great performances that were, you know, absolutely amazing. And I think one of the performances that I witnessed that was so transformative for me was hearing Rostropovich, I think in his last performance with the Boston Symphony, playing the Glazunov Chant du Menestrel. And that was something that changed my playing on the spot. That is not in the category of the things that you were perhaps alluding to, like concert disasters, of which I've had quite a few.

Starting point is 00:46:38 And of course, some people have heard the most vivid one in which I was warming up to go on to play with an orchestra. used the men's room, pushed the handle, and the urinal exploded, blew up, and then proceeded to flood the auditorium. That one will stay with me forever, for better or worse. That's a great anecdote. I've heard you tell that story in detail, and you should make a YouTube video about that, for sure. but going back to the rostropovich performance what do you think about it changed your life well i had seen him play before on a number of occasions i was working a fair amount at that time with the pianist samuel sanders who was rostropovich's regular accompanist so i'd seen

Starting point is 00:47:34 rostropovich in recital and in fact it turned pages for him once or twice and was so terrified doing that, that never wanted to do that again. But to see Rostropovich play a Russian piece in which he was completely engaged, not only in terms of projecting the music, but drawing the audience into him in the most intimate playing imaginable we wanted to be right in that cello it was such an extraordinary moment and i can't imagine ever a more hushed response Everyone was absolutely transfixed when the peace ended. Sounds like an amazing experience. It was. It was indeed.

Starting point is 00:48:32 What's the best advice that was ever given to you that you would like to pass on to the listeners? Right. Well, a few things I think came up. I think one of the things that was most important was to have a schedule, make certain you have an intent in what you're doing at all times. And then the other thing that as sort of related to what I was saying earlier, is that it's not just about music. It's about your career will be dependent upon how you treat people and that it was actually something that rose told me and he said you know i was talking to him about where he was playing and he said i have a concerto next week in fargo north dakota and i looked at him and you know fargo north dakota leonard rose playing and he

Starting point is 00:49:32 said, listen, I'm happy to be playing in Fargo, North Dakota. I love the people there. They're devoted listeners. They want to hear me play. Why shouldn't I give them my very best? And I think that was a really great thing that you have to give everyone your best all the time, including yourself. That last one is very true. I think so. How about a quick actionable tip listeners could implement today in their musical lives? Okay. I was thinking about this, Renee, and I think it's a really, really wonderful thing to ask. I'm going to throw sort of a curve ball of advice. Okay. It's me after all. Love it. Yeah. So here's what I'd like your listeners to do. go in front of the mirror with your instrument, look at yourself, and tell yourself

Starting point is 00:50:31 what recipe from several contradictory elements will make you the best artist. Here's part of the recipe. Here it is. Ingredient one, repetition versus spontaneity, relaxation and power imagination control confidence and humility because at the end technical discipline does bring us artistic freedom we just have to figure out at any given day what the recipe is to make us the best artist we can be wow okay i need to frame that and put it in my office this was fantastic see that is why you're going to be my publicist yes i mean so much truth in what you just said thank you so much for that my pleasure thank you james any final remarks you would like to make or maybe some fun projects coming up for you you'd

Starting point is 00:51:36 like to talk to us about i am doing something a little kooky in about a month uh yaniv dinur who is the first prize winner of the Schulte conducting competition, commissioned me to rewrite the story, the libretto for Peter and the Wolf for an adult audience. And so I am busy working on this to take it from a children's tale into something else. And so I'm giving the premiere that on November 2nd, just about a month with him conducting, which I'm looking forward to. But I am the wolf. The narrator is me and I am the wolf. So it's told from a very different point of view and very much for an adult audience, not for children. That sounds wonderful. I'll put the information for this in the show notes. Okay, sure. Great. James, thank you so

Starting point is 00:52:36 much for all of this amazing wisdom that you so graciously gave us today my pleasure renee thank you so much for inviting me to your podcast thank you guys so much for listening i hope you enjoyed this chat with eastman school of music professor james vendermark i walk away really inspired i It resonates strongly with so many of the things he said, and that's one I'll be listening to again for sure. I especially love what he said about having interpretation be at the center of the technical work, and I really share his views on creating the concert experience in the practice room every day.

Starting point is 00:53:25 As I said, I hope you read his bio in the show notes, either on your podcast app or at mindoverfinger.com. And if you enjoyed this episode and found value in James's message, please consider sharing with a friend. And also, why not share a screenshot on social media and tag me? Speaking of social media, I'm doing a playing meditation challenge in the tribe until the end of October. And this challenge was inspired by episode number 45 of the podcast with Milan Milisavljevic, in which he talks about his mindful approach to practicing. if you're not already participating it's not too late it's never too late to join me in this playing meditation experience challenge i'll also be logging in live every wednesday at 8 30 a.m

Starting point is 00:54:17 central to talk about college pre-screening recordings and how to prepare and record those so tune in and send me your questions in the tribe you can find our little group on facebook at facebook.com slash groups slash mind over finger tribe and as always don't hesitate to reach out to me at any time with comments questions and opinions there or on instagram at mind over finger thanks to all of you who left kind words and positive reviews on apple podcast and stitcher i truly appreciate it until next time Thank you.

The Mind Over Finger Podcast - 047 James VanDemark: Technical Discipline & Interpretive Magic

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.