The Mind Over Finger Podcast - 065 Kimberlee Dray: Adaptability & Mission in Music Making

Starting point is 00:00:00 You're listening to the Mind Over Finger podcast, episode number 65. Welcome to the Mind Over Finger podcast, discussions on mindful music making, efficient practice, and building a purposeful career. And now your host, Dr. Rene Paul Gaultier. Hi, everyone. If you're listening to this episode on the day it's coming out, March 20th, 2020, you're probably like the rest of us trying to get your footing in this new reality that we're all facing. All of those social distancing measures, kids out of school, concerts canceled, all of us moving to online education. There's so much going on. So I'm really happy that my guest today is violinist and composer Kimberly Dre, because Kimberly is an incredible example of adaptability, of resourcefulness and courage in the face of adversity. And I can't think of a better message to share today than her story.

Starting point is 00:01:12 I've been following Kimberly on Instagram for a long time. She's the one and only Green Case Girl, and I finally got to connect with her personally last summer during the Virtual Strings Summit, and I feel like I made a dear friend that day. And by the way, you can have a chance to catch the summit again absolutely free starting next week, and I'll have more details about that after the interview and in the show notes. Before the interview, let me give you a few details about Kimberly. After stepping away from her musical path to take care of her family, Kimberly picked up her instrument again when she was diagnosed with Meniere's disease, a disorder of the inner ear where symptoms can range from severe dizziness and ringing in the ears to permanent hearing loss. For Kimberly, healing took the form of a highly motivated return to the violin and her subsequent dedication eventually lessened symptoms and brought on a remission. Kimberly's offbeat path led to performances and masterclasses for luminaries such as Joseph Silverstein and Elmar Oliveira to study with Aaron Roseanne and Sherry Kloss and culminated in a three-year commute from Seattle to New York City to train with Nina Bellina. As Kimberly puts it, juggling four children and advanced violin study required healthy doses of negotiating and creativity, bribes, begging, and freezer meals.

Starting point is 00:02:41 Since returning to her musical career, Kimberly has soloed for orchestras and performed for recital series throughout the United States. She's also premiered her own composition for solo violin and completed a commission for violin and piano premiered by Sherry Kloss at the Yasha Haifetz Symposium. In this episode, Kimberly talks about her return to music, how she answered the call, and how she let no obstacles stand in the way of her following her dream path. Kimberly strives to wake others who have allowed their music to lapse, inviting them back and standing as witness of the power of music to heal. She hopes her music will illustrate the potential of motivated work and the possibilities when one answers an inner call. I drew so much inspiration from my conversation with Kimberly, and I know you will too. Let's go to the show. Kimberly Dre, I'm so excited to have you on the show.

Starting point is 00:03:46 Not as excited as I am to be here. Thank you for this opportunity, Renee Paul. Kimberly I've been following you online for a long time actually and I was so excited when we were introduced virtually through the virtual strength summit last summer and it was so much fun and I have you know grown to know you even more and I am just so inspired by you I I love your energy, your sense of humor, and just you are someone who's so fully authentic and inspiring, and I'm just so excited that we get this chance to sit down and chat a little bit today.

Starting point is 00:04:32 Oh gosh, it's so mutual. I have been following you for such a long time, and I feel quite similar about you. You are a powerhouse. I can't believe all of the good that you're doing and the many people that are helped by this podcast. And every time I have an opportunity, I try to make sure people are aware of the gold mine that is here. Oh, thank you so much. Kimberly, I always start the show by letting the guests talk to us a little bit about them. But in your case, I want to bring out a quote I saw on your website that just made my heart sing. If a man does not keep pace with

Starting point is 00:05:10 his companions perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer let him step to the music which he hears however measured or far away i just love this quote so much and i wanted to bring it up before i let you tell us about yourself tell us how it resonates for you this quote well um this is Henry David Thoreau, of course, from Walden. And I have such a strange story with my relationship to the violin. It doesn't follow any of the traditional paths at all. And so I feel like my relationship to my violin really is embodied by that quotation. I also often say that if I were a Muppet, I would be Gonzo because Gonzo's the whatever. So, um, yes, as far as that, my story, you know, I was the oldest of 12 children. So I was destined to be a mom prodigy,

Starting point is 00:06:16 if anything. Um, from the time I was quite young, um, maybe even six years old, I was, you know, really watching over my brothers and sisters and they came, you know, yearly or every couple of years. And I am grateful to be the oldest of those 12 children, but, um, they're just, it was just a very different kind of growing up experience than most musicians have. My parents were not musicians. I did not grow up in a place that had access to great teachers. Um, there wasn't a great we didn't even know about summer music festivals I just was kind of a normal kid and while most prodigies were probably you know ripping up you know Lalo for four hours a day I was digging a hole in my backyard trying to have a swimming pool and thinking that if I dug it and

Starting point is 00:07:09 put a tarp in there that you know we'd have we did make a really good mud pit though so that that was great but we weren't successful I that's just to say you know um I maybe practiced a half an hour a day and and there was one violin teacher in town but you know I loved music from a very young age and I you know I like to compose so my mom would just let me go and I'd go in the piano room and I would just kind of keep on playing whatever came to my mind and um so I think music was always in me it's just that maybe I wasn't so directed or so focused the way most musicians are um from the outset and I was kind of a wild child anyway it would have been really hard to, um, it still is hard to bundle all this energy, but in any case, um, I, but I love the

Starting point is 00:08:08 violin. And by the time I got to be maybe, uh, you know, sophomore, junior in high school, then I was really practicing hours, probably, you know, three, four hours a day. Um, I didn't think of myself as anything much. I knew that there were so many kids who were so much more talented than I was. I didn't even try for a scholarship. That's a story in and of itself. But eventually, I did get a scholarship. And that that was kind of the shock of my life. I had always planned on doing something completely unrelated to music. But when I got that big scholarship, I thought, I'm just going to go for it. And the reason I went for it, to be honest, is because there was this one piece, the Lark Ascending. And I wanted to learn that with all

Starting point is 00:08:53 of my heart. So the only reason I actually went into music was because I wanted to learn that piece. Wow. And, um, I quickly, because I loved it. Um, I quickly kind of blew out of that program because you see, you have to have a base in theory. And I think I just barely squeaked by on the Alice Ferris test in the beginning. And, you know, this was all very new for me. And so I was very much drowning in that program. And not only that, but I had a lot of imposter syndrome sorts of feelings in my brain, knowing that I came as a scholarship student, knowing that I was in the most coveted teacher studio with graduate students and seniors and feeling completely unworthy and completely out of my element. My last memory of before I quit the music school

Starting point is 00:09:45 was, uh, getting up to play the Mendelssohn violin concerto at the first movement in master class. And I got up and the only thing in my brain is you're not a violinist. You don't belong. You're not one of them. And my brain blanked out. And even though I knew that movement, I, I couldn't see anything in my head. I, my, my whole body froze up and I ran out crying. I know It's very dramatic. And, um, and then I got married and I went, that's a good transition. I did. I, um, I, I mean, you really could make a, I don't know, some sort of soap opera out of it. Really? There she goes crying off into the distance and then she gets married. but in any case i i got married and i was a mom and um there really wasn't money for

Starting point is 00:10:39 violin lessons but you know it was deep in me because i would sometimes sneak it out and just try to practice here and there but it just never really worked out um for a variety of reasons and i don't really talk about these 10 years that went down but basically i was doing a lot of other things. I was, I had a handbag business. I ran marathons. We, we did a lot of things. I had three children. Towards the end of that time, I, as I was running, I started having some symptoms. I felt like I was being sucked down a hole. I would fall over with dizziness and my ears would plug up and I would go completely deaf and it would last anywhere from 10 to, you know, 10 minutes to half an hour. Um, for a little while I was dizzy constantly for maybe a month

Starting point is 00:11:32 and, um, I was falling down all over my house. I was kind of crawling, couldn't really get up a whole lot. And eventually it kind of came out of that fog. And then I just kept having these attacks and I would have, I dunno, 20 a day or something in the beginning. And, um, that was hard because i had three children at home and i finally got a diagnosis they call that meniere's disease and um it looks a little different for everybody everybody's symptoms are a little different um but we all share four classic um symptoms in any case was really concerned about how i was going to raise these children and and possibly because you're losing your your ears both your balance and your hearing. And I thought, how am I going to be a mom? How am I going to

Starting point is 00:12:25 live my life? I'm only 29 years old and I have a lot of life left. And some of the things that I was reading were quite upsetting. There are people who literally are in bed all day long in kind of a state of disconnection with anything because they've lost their balance. And so after reading those horror stories, it was probably one of the most important transformative experiences of my life. And I would not give it up for anything because in that moment, I realized a few things about life. And number one is that you can't count on tomorrow.

Starting point is 00:13:05 And I was so worried about like, what's going to happen and what's, how much worse is it going to get? And I'd worry so much about that, but I forgot. you know, you could get hit by a car tomorrow. Like, you aren't even entitled to the very next breath that you're going to take. So everything that you have is a gift. Your ears are a gift. You're lucky if you wake up in the morning and you can hear. And that was extremely important. And another transformative thing that I learned in that moment was, um so let's not worry about what's coming let's just think about today okay so today I had 20

Starting point is 00:13:49 attacks it was really annoying but did I get the kids out of bed yes did we get on the yes we got it all done and we had another day and then you could just be kind of grateful for the day and the second one is really I felt like it's time for me to enjoy my hearing while I have it so I got my violin out again after really 10 years of not practicing and in the beginning I could only do five minutes and I'm not kidding about that I had a little neuropathy in my fingers um in the beginning and I would just leave my violin out on the bed and close the door and all day I would grab it for five minutes and then that increased to maybe 10 minutes and then it was 20 minutes. And after a while, it was 20 minute stretches, you know, eight or 10 times a

Starting point is 00:14:41 day. And after a while, those hours really start bulking up. And I think it's just a gradual process of working back in. Well, after you start practicing, you know, four hours, five hours, whatever it is, a day, you know, you kind of improve. And to be, to make a long story short, basically all sorts of doors started opening up for me. And I still think it's miraculous. I don't even know how this happened for myself. I am very grateful to Sherry Kloss, who has the Yasha Heifetz Symposium, which is now not running anymore. So that gave me opportunities to play for luminaries such as Elmar Oliveira and Joseph Silverstein and Aaron Roseanne. And that was an incredible opportunity now it is odd for a mommy of four to leave go across the country just for

Starting point is 00:15:44 the opportunity to play for this luminary hero of hers with no other object other than to just say at the end of this I will be able to forever say I played for Aaron Roseanne and really that was all it was I just wanted so badly but then I got there and I thought oh my gosh I'm gonna play for Aaron Roseanne what are you thinking and luckily I had a friend there who said Aaron Roseanne listens to violinists every day all day it's his job he's heard plenty of violinists before you and he'll hear you too and it really was such fantastic advice because I mean really what do have to lose so I did and he invited me to Summit Music Festival to study with him uh one summer incredible opportunity I will forever be grateful for that um I also was um I don't know just little

Starting point is 00:16:39 things would pop up I've been able to play in recital series I've been able to play with orchestra um I've had I don't know and then probably the biggest one that came up um was an opportunity to study with Nina Bellina for really the last few years of her life. And, um, I went nuts one day. I, I was given the opportunity to play for her and I finished playing and she said, so is this it then you're just going to go home. And that was that. And that was great. And Renee Paul, I lost my mind. And I said, I can come once a month. Hmm. And then I had to go home and talk to my husband about how we're going to downsize our house because we need to afford flying me from Seattle to New York once a month. And we did that

Starting point is 00:17:31 for about two and a half to three years is, uh, how I did that. And, um, I know it's really, I wouldn't recommend it. I would say to all young students, go do it the regular route. If you can, um don't have children and then have you know get into education it's much harder it's it's the backwards way but but i will say that um suzuki was very right when he said where love is deep much can be accomplished and i just love this instrument i do i can't drown it out there's nothing I can do to stop it and in fact my symptoms of Meniere's disease after about five years of really heavy duty practicing they started to diminish until they went into remission and I've really mostly been in remission for the last eight years

Starting point is 00:18:26 as long as I practice I've only had two relapses and they have been related to my not practicing for an extended period of time so anyone who doubts that music music is healing um I'm here as a witness it is and I always say that I think I went deaf because I wasn't listening to myself and I think if you have the inner fire if you love it what are you gonna do you're cursed you have to I love that you use the word fire because whenever I see you online whether it's a video that you've posted of you playing or a story that you tell us or something that you wrote I really feel so inspired I've said it before but I really feel inspired by what you put out there and I think it's because you have that fire and we feel it that's that's for sure a quote I saw on your

Starting point is 00:19:30 website that i also love and i think that when i hear you tell us your incredible story it really comes to life and here it is kimberly strives to wake others who have allowed their music to lapse inviting them back and standing as witness of the power of music to heal she hopes her music will illustrate the potential of motivated work in the possibilities when one answers an inner call and I love that last little bit when one answers that inner call and I am so glad that you listened to it and you answered to that call because I feel like you are really not only inspiring me but inspiring so many others through your enthusiasm which is contagious by the way. And you show us that one can choose how they view and how they face adversity. And you don't

Starting point is 00:20:29 have to be defined by what is but at any time, you can completely forge your own path. There's no rule that says that you have to walk in the footsteps that are ahead of you, you can really answer the call exactly if I am to use your own words. So I love your life story so much. That is very humbling. And that's everything I want my life to be about. Really. It's my my real passion is that I feel like there are too many like me who closed the case. And you know that teachers who put these incredibly talented young people and they graduate with their bachelor's or their master's and to have those kids burn out or have those young people or those young adults burn out and have so much to give and have no place to give it. it just sits in my heart so deeply. I want them to use their music. I want the world to have more music in it. I remember sitting and listening to these incredible youth playing in this concerto competition and seeing that there were only a few of us listening. And I

Starting point is 00:21:46 thought it was glorious music. And I felt so full and enriched by the experience. And it hurt my heart to realize that there were only a few of us there to enjoy it. And so anytime I think there is talent that's going unused or doesn't have a voice, it feels like I need to do something about it. And I don't know what, but I just feel the fire to try to put myself in a position in whatever way that is to, um, help people to get it out of the case, not to give up because we need our music warriors. The world is in need of music probably more now than ever before. And, uh, I want people to stand up if you've been fortunate enough to have the training and to have been given, I mean, you are the fortunate few on this earth to have music.

Starting point is 00:22:50 And if you have that training, I want you to use it. And you have an amazing challenge right now. I love what you started with that, the Recital Challenge 2020. Do you want to talk to us a little bit about that? Oh, yeah. Well, you know, as I've been kind of going along on my own journey, one thing I can say is, And I think that this is true. And this is why if you were in a bachelor's program, master's program, doctorate program, part of that program is all about recital. That's what you're working for. And you'll be giving juries and then you'll also be giving recitals. And part of the reason for that, I think, is because it's such a growing experience to give a full length recital. Now, I don't think when I made this challenge, I don't think everybody is ready for a full-length recital, and I don't think that everybody needs to give a full-length recital.

Starting point is 00:23:48 Only the people who are out there know where they're at and know what they can give. And maybe for some people, it will just be a performance, and they're getting it out for the first time in such a long time. And maybe one performance is going to be great. um maybe some people are in a position that it's been a few years but they they're capable of giving that full-length recital and they need the challenge and they need the push um to me it's a great idea it was just a great idea because I thought well we're doing all this practicing with 100 days of practice challenge which I think is marvelous and amazing and has done such incredible good for so many but um then to start sharing it with others I felt like was

Starting point is 00:24:32 the next step so in my mind I just thought well is there some way we could just give more music this year so that was but it's really not that complex I just wanted in whatever way I could to encourage people to continue to challenge themselves with their music and to share it and I think it's so great because preparing for a recital like this is or any kind of concert can be kind of a solitary activity and by doing so you're creating a community there's support there's encouragement and also you're you know maybe some as exactly as you said some people might need kind of a an incentive or a they need someone like you to light their fire to play a recital well I think that you know back in the days when I wasn't playing I did run a

Starting point is 00:25:26 couple of marathons. And, um, and then I also, you know, did 10 K I was running a lot. And, you know, it's interesting to me, the sport of running, if you want to participate, you just enter a 10 K or you enter a 5k and nobody cares if you win and nobody cares if you're going to get any money for it. You just, you know, you have a personal goal that you want to achieve. And so you achieve it. And it's really exciting to watch all the runners come across the line for the marathon because you know that there are personal victories that are happening out there that are just as magnanimous and incredible as anybody who wins the race now it's wonderful for the ones who win the race and that's so exciting to watch an incredible mind-boggling to see what

Starting point is 00:26:11 these humans can achieve with their bodies but that doesn't take away from the other personal victories that are happening for everybody else who crosses that line and i felt like well shouldn't music sort of do that for people as well can't we somehow have something that's sort of like hey we we want personal victories personal goals and we want to achieve them and you don't have to win and you don't and you don't have to make money you can just share um and I think that's a really good place to start for anyone who has let it lapse or anyone who needs to rebuild the fire because you're right a recital is a very solitary experience and you get to program whatever you want and so i'm sure there are these wonderful pieces like for me it was the lark ascending

Starting point is 00:27:06 and i finally learned that piece i actually didn't learn it in college but i eventually did learn it. And, and there are these things that are deep in your soul. And I hate to think that you would not do it because other things got in the way or other distractions. So it's time. It's time to get those things out and say, before I die, I will play this piece. This is so meaningful to me. So anyway, that was the idea. I think it's a fabulous idea. And I hope that those who are interested, consider joining your Facebook group about that. And I'm going to put the link to the group in the show notes. Thank you very much. It's just a new group and hopefully it will be very helpful. I have definitely linked your podcast as well as any other resources that I

Starting point is 00:27:56 can find. And I encourage musicians to publish their own recital publicity because I'm hoping that we can you know definitely give each other a lot of support based on you know I mean we can probably say hey good luck on the day of the concert and the thing is preparing for a concert is I mean there's so many nooks and crannies or I could say you know now I'm thinking in French but the mount and valleys if that makes sense where you know one day things are going well and you feel great and then you know then you're kind of in the slump for a few days where you feel like you're making no progress and you're all alone in your practice room with no one to share your fears and your frustrations with so now there's there's a place to go and share and find support and

Starting point is 00:28:48 encouragement well and performing is really its own unique um skill it's it's not like practicing And, you know, I think it was Midori who said one performance is worth a thousand practice hours. And I really understand what she means by that. A performance, we're learning all sorts of other coping sorts of skills that you just, that are very hard to practice. You can, to a certain extent, practice those things, but really the best way to learn is performing. And I think a lot of people shut down their music because they have anxieties or difficulties performing. And I have found that almost everybody experiences some sort of anxiety with performing. And I am hoping that through this, this group, that since we have professionals, and we have amateurs, and we have everybody, that maybe we can have those resources available to help people overcome those challenges that would otherwise shut them down. and that's the other thing I love as well you just said there's professionals there's amateurs there's everybody and that's what I'm loving with what is happening these days I feel like the musical community is really coming together where there's less and less separation between

Starting point is 00:30:14 the so-called professionals and amateur and I just love how it all comes together by serving the same purpose and really sharing the same love for music. Oh, you're so right. I love how you just said that. That's exactly how I feel. It's, um, thank goodness for the internet. In fact, I mean, I have to call out Lori Niles here for starting violinist.com. You know, I, I don't participate there too much anymore, but in the beginning years when I had no one, I was just getting out this violin again and I didn't have teachers or anything and i i will say that for the first few years that i came back to the violin i mean a lot of it was happening a lot of my training came straight from that

Starting point is 00:31:00 um resource so i don't think we can underestimate the power of um you know the connectivity that we have nowadays i think it's wonderful and it gives opportunities for groups who have traditionally been sidelined. Like myself, I didn't have festivals or great training. And all of that I couldn't have had when I was younger. But now it's all available. And it's online. I can't thank all of the people enough who have put their time and energy towards giving their music. It's helping all of us. Absolutely. I'd like to jump back just a little bit because we were just talking about performance preparation and practicing. And what I love from your perspective is that you walked away from a while and now you're back with passion. And I'd love to

Starting point is 00:32:01 know how different your practice is now if it is different what has changed and because you've so generously shared with us how you prepared for the recitals that you had last year and it was so interesting to follow your process and see how thorough you are and I'd love to hear about this practicing um i definitely feel that having having had other performance experiences always informs how you're going to practice the next time and um i have a few friends who've said things i have one friend who told me a an amateur i see i don't like that word because to me, actually, Joseph Silverstein said, I am an amateur. And I listened to him say this for five summers in a row. Every single summer he would say the thing, I am an amateur. Because he

Starting point is 00:32:59 liked to say that amateur, the root of that word is love. And so he plays for love. And he wanted us to always know that he was a musician who played for love. And I respect no musician more than I respect Joseph Silverstein. He was incredible. In any case, so he said, an amateur practices until they get it right, but a professional practices until they can't get it wrong. And that always echoes in my brain. I don't know when that's going to be for me, honestly. but I do know that I one time played through the preludio of the Bach E major perfectly and I did have one perfect well in in terms of accuracy and mostly what I kind of wanted to do artistically with it I had one experience performing that to the degree that I wanted to I mean there were

Starting point is 00:34:01 always there's always things that are lacking you're always going to come away from a performance I think thinking oh this or oh this but for the most part and I think what I did that time and I know it's not that mindful and maybe I need to take your course because maybe it would be less um time consuming but really what I did is I played through the day before 20 times 20 times and the last few times I made myself play it through twice in a row perfectly from beginning to end and that took about I hate to say it but probably three hours before I finally played through from beginning to end um and it's it's not rocket science it's just a lot of work um it's just that's that's what I found is it's just it's just work now um I think there are ways

Starting point is 00:34:58 of thinking about it that help for instance I try to go on Instagram I know it's silly but I do lives and I play for for people live I know that's super scary but I know that I need performance opportunities, because the more I get in front of an audience, the more I'm used to that feeling that you get before you play for an audience. And I don't want there to be, I want to minimize the amount of surprises that I'm going to have on stage as much as possible. And I, so I, as much as I can, I try to get used to that feeling. And I've really enjoyed Instagram for its live component because you really can just pop on at any time and say okay i'm gonna play through the box prelude for all you guys whoever shows up right now and and you've got to perform it i think

Starting point is 00:35:54 especially people who are not in school or a regimented program one of the biggest factors i think in our progress or in our um continued advancement is performance opportunities especially from a solo perspective um a lot of us are playing in gigs or playing in groups playing in orchestras this and that but playing solo is a completely different kind of experience and so you want to have that experience as much as possible and it's difficult to find it um when you're younger there's all kinds of you know concerto competitions or competitions in general or opportunities to kind of play as you age that they become less and less and you have to make them kind of happen for yourself so I've really enjoyed um Instagram for that reason and that

Starting point is 00:36:46 that is one tool that I use to practice because I know it's important to practice performing I take as many opportunities to do practice performances as possible um I haven't been lucky enough to really be live in a place where I had a lot of colleagues and so I haven't been fortunate to have that support structure to be able to go play for colleagues I know that a lot of other professionals talk about playing for colleagues as much as possible if I had that I would absolutely do that I've had to kind of create my own colleague situation by using what was available to me online. And there's a lot available. So the fact that I even exist at all is testament to the fact that things are kind of changing as far as, um, our ability to,

Starting point is 00:37:39 to go beyond, um, traditional boundaries. One thing I love from your story, and we've heard this from the start is how resourceful you are in really creating environment and situations that would really help you in you know getting to your goal you just you won't let anything stop you you always figure out a way to make what you want happen and I think that is so great and the other thing I love is when you're talking about the performance and how you were referring to this quote from Midori that a performance is worth a thousand practice and I think that it's Because our awareness is so acute in a performance setting. So it's very true, everything that you just said in terms of the importance of playing for colleagues or just the way that you did it, which is to hop online and play live, that requires so much courage. And actually, it brings you value and experience, but it also brings value and experience to whoever is listening to what you're doing.

Starting point is 00:38:54 I hope so. I, you know, I just barely did this insane thing. And I posted a live performance where I made mistakes. And I can play that piece without making mistakes, but I happen to in this live performance make mistakes. I know that it's an incredibly charged sort of world that we have about making mistakes. And I really debated whether I would share that or not. It was hard. And it took a lot of, you know, kind of thought process for myself to say, you can do more good with your mistakes than you will do by trying to be something that you're not. And the truth is, I'm not perfect yet. i'm not i do the best i can i never want to make errors i work like crazy to not make errors

Starting point is 00:39:51 and the truth of my situation is i'm a mother and i have i have done many weddings and i'm a florist and i do i have i'm a you know runner and i and i'm i do all kinds of things i'm writer too So within the scope of everything that I am and who I am, I just have to be happy with that, what I can do. And I think, you know, right now I can tell you there are students in Elizabeth Bailey's class who are not even out of their teens who are much better players than I am. And, you know, I just think as musicians, we kind of have to let it go a little bit. because I think we need to know from the very beginning, and I know I'm talking to someone right now as I'm going to say this, no one else can do your job.

Starting point is 00:40:43 There's not one. And I think we start to feel inadequate. But why would you feel inadequate about doing something that no one else can do except yourself? And I know when I step on that stage, I tell myself, well right now there's no one in the audience who's prepared to stand up here on the stage and play schnitka prokofiev gershwin and copeland so i guess it'll have to be me and that's usually the case um it you know we each have that moment when we're going to share

Starting point is 00:41:23 our music. And I think we shouldn't back down because we have some perfectionist problem. And if I could just speak to this very quickly, my husband and I were talking a little bit earlier, he's actually in business and I used to help him write his business. Well, yeah, I used to help him when he was in an MBA program, write his paper. So I had the benefit of learning a lot of things about the business world. Theory of constraints is very interesting, and that definitely has applications in the music world. But the one I think I'm thinking about now is called the agility method. And I think anybody who's in the IT world will definitely know what this is. Basically, it's the idea that things in the tech world, they are moving at such a rapid

Starting point is 00:42:12 rate and things are evolving and changing so quickly that in that world, you can't ever produce when you're in product development, you can't ever produce a perfect product because by the time you've produced that perfect product, it will be outmoded and outdated and it won't be perfect anymore. So, so the agility method addresses this. And basically what they're doing is they are putting something out there and then allowing customers to kind of drive the modifications that get made to that product. So it's the constant product feedback situation as the product develops. And it's in a constant state of development based on the feedback that they're getting from their customers. And it's really the best model. And I like to think of

Starting point is 00:43:01 performance and practicing in that way that we're a continually evolving you know human being who's continually evolving in our art nothing that you ever are going to put out there is going to be perfect and the moment that it's perfect you know we're going to change fashions or people are going to stop liking slides or they're going to like slides or Or, you know, these perfect bow changes that we thought were incredible, now we're kind of looking for something a little more raw. I don't know. We're always, I mean, art is not stagnant. It's constantly evolving. And so I think sometimes we shut ourselves down in that creative process simply because we're trying to adhere to rules more than we are trying to adhere to the overall goal of sharing a message. and especially sharing authentic message straight from ourselves and and that's when I want to get back to this idea that you are the only one who is capable of giving your unique gifts and so they're really this idea of competition I mean nothing against competitions they're great I

Starting point is 00:44:19 I have participated in them and and watched them and and helped with them but um the price that we pay sometimes for that is that we forget our own worth. And that is a heavy price. Absolutely. And what I love about the message that you have as well is that you show us that we don't need permission. You know, we don't need the endorsement of a committee somewhere, somehow that says, yes, this person is allowed to perform. This is totally up to us. And we really actually have the power to do it. Yes. I mean, sorry, if I ruffle feathers, anyone who thinks I'm not worthy of playing, I mean, I apologize, but I'm only allowed one life to live. And when I had, you know, I guess, having that ear problem really just woke me up in such a profound

Starting point is 00:45:21 way because i have these ears on loan for however long i have them and i want to do as well as i can with them it doesn't mean that i i'm not interested or not um thinking about the traditions i definitely am that's why i sought nina bolina out she's an incredible champion for for the art and i wanted that but I also feel that it's incredibly vital for us each to go within ourselves and remember that fire why we loved it in the first place and um and not be afraid of that even if we may at times feel like our gift is unworthy um I I don't I don't know where we get that I don't know why there's shame involved in music it seems so antithetical the concept of shame to music and i don't know why it's anywhere near us honestly yeah and you know you say this and

Starting point is 00:46:25 i wrote down one of the another quote from your website that i loved um when you say remembering what it was like to fall in love with this music for the first time is my prescription for dispelling the abstraction and seeing clearly once again I just love that well it isn't that the truth coming up to the music again and seeing once more that beautiful little indication of that's always in Bach you know I mean it's it's beautiful this I mean to me it's like it's the heartbeat and it's all over his music and you know you come up against something like that and all of a sudden the fire's lit again and you say what genius how wonderful I hope that I can bring that out in performance I hope that the people in my audience will hear and feel at a

Starting point is 00:47:19 visceral level this heartbeat this pulse that drives and shows us eternity you know anyway that's how I filled that box Kimberly thank you so much for all of this is there anything else you'd like to share with us before we do a quick, or not so quick, round of rapid-fire questions? Yes, actually, I was just thinking, I want to share out of a book, one of my favorite books. It's called The Guns of August. It's by Barbara Tuchman.

Starting point is 00:47:51 It's about World War I. And the battle, the miracle of the Marne is what they call it, but basically the Germans had come up with a plan for this war effort, and they had scripted every moment. I mean, it was really an itinerary down to the very last hour of everything that would happen. And they've really choreographed a victory is what they did. It was called the Schließen Plan, I believe. And anyway, it was going like clockwork, Schlieffen Plan.

Starting point is 00:48:23 And it was going like clockwork until they got to the Marne. And the French and the British knew that any closer and they would overtake Paris and then it would be over. and so they got to a point where we cannot lose cannot lose and and that was basically the speech that they told them there there is no way you can fall back die before you fall back and um it's interesting this quote always gets me choked up it is the german leader talking to the others or he's speaking about those soldiers that he saw fight and he said that men will let themselves be killed where they stand that is a well-known thing and counted on in every plan of battle but that men who have retreated for 10 days sleeping on the ground and half dead with fatigue

Starting point is 00:49:22 should be able to take up their rifles and attack when the bugle sounds is a thing upon which we never counted. It was a possibility not studied in our war academy. And I love that quote because I think it talks about performance in this way. When you get on the stage, you can stand confidently within yourself, knowing that there's no retreating. There's just moving forward. and that's all that's required and that day um turned the tide of the war and they won well i mean eventually actually it ended in a stalemate that lasted for four years but in any case um it all of the plans all the things that were supposed to happen through a great act of will went a completely different direction and that's why i like to think

Starting point is 00:50:18 no one is really in charge of your destiny but yourself and I think it's worth the fight and I think that anything that's in your soul that's that that you love is worth the fight it's worth standing up there it's worth doing what you have to do to be able to finally get there and I'm I'm talking as a fighter there's not really any part of what I have with my violin that I didn't fight for. Nothing was really handed to me. I've been very grateful and very fortunate to have received some help along the way from some very important and beautiful people and beautiful humans. And I think that happens for everyone as we continue to move forward and just take that step into the darkness. So that's why I gave the challenge. I want everyone

Starting point is 00:51:08 to take that step into the darkness and move forward. Yeah. Thank you so much for this, Kimberly. Okay, how about a round of rapid fire questions? Yes, yes. I know we've talked a lot about your life, but I would still love to hear about what it looks like now with all of your activity and your family and all of that stuff. So can you tell us a little bit about what your life looks like um probably like a very hectic junk shop I don't know that's kind of what it looks like I'm teasing but honestly it's I feel like it's constant adaptation um because I never know when a child is going to have a crisis for instance and that's my first job so that's my day job and if a child has a crisis then you know i i will have to adapt my schedule to meet that

Starting point is 00:52:11 and um i think that has a lot to do with adapting expectations as well i think um to a certain extent okay when i was running the marathons one thing that i did was that you know i really wanted to get a really great time and there's no end of money or time that you can spend preparing for a marathon to just get your absolute best performance. And I think we would all really love our very best performance. But the reality was that at that time, I was a mom and I had babies at home. And so the best I could do was to get up at like, you know, three in the morning and go do my running so that I'd be home by the time they woke up.

Starting point is 00:52:56 And that's the truth. I would get up at 3.30 and I go do my run. and then I had to be done and that was the only amount of time and I had to maximize that time and I think most people are in a situation more like that where we just don't have every resource available to us to have our very best performance but during that time what I learned is that if you can be grateful and if you can approach things with a grateful heart and think, but I had these two hours, or I had this three hours. And you can be grateful for that and let go of your expectations. Then you can, you know, run the marathon, you can say, well, I ran

Starting point is 00:53:37 the marathon, maybe it wasn't like everything that I hoped it would be. But it but I got it done. And so I definitely think that my life kind of resembles that, that I try to constantly do my very best, but it's my best. And that means shuffling things around a lot. That means being okay with a 20 minute, you know, I, I, I literally do. I practice in 20 minutes segments. I get something done and then I go do 20 minutes and then I do something else. And I practice 20 minutes. It's very rarely that I get a full, you know, three hours to myself. And occasionally that does happen for me my children are much older now and it does change and you do have more time but that doesn't mean that they aren't on the phone with you or calling you or saying help me

Starting point is 00:54:28 with a paper so so I think that yeah my life it is it has certain bounds but I kind of like that because boundaries aren't necessarily a bad thing sometimes they keep things in focus sometimes boundaries help define the edges of your life that make a very beautiful picture that's so well put and that's a great lesson for everyone you know adaptability and great planning and having this respect for boundaries like you just mentioned i love that do you have a favorite tool in the practice room yes but it's more of like an implementation of of torture I wouldn't recommend it to anyone but I have you know when you walk into I don't know a concert or something and the people have these little people counters and they'll click on it

Starting point is 00:55:24 to let them know how many people came in the door or whatever I I bought one of those because sometimes I just do these mass repetitions of things um when I'm really trying to hit a shift especially talk to me about how well that works usually it works pretty well actually but but I lose track of especially if I'm doing a repetition of like 50 and I don't know what it is I think maybe it's just the clicking sound that I like I don't know it's probably some little OCD thing but I yeah I like that little clicker because it helps me and I know when I get the clicker out that I'm totally serious about this. I am going to get this shift. So yeah, I like my clicker. It's so funny what you say, because it really makes me think that,

Starting point is 00:56:13 yes, in a way, maybe it's a ritual, but it's so true that rituals can help us get our, they can help us get ourselves in the mindset to accomplish something. Yeah, I think it's very much centered in my will. And so I think whenever I've accomplished anything, it's usually because I finally just something in my mind just snaps. And I think, no, it's now time I will do this. And I feel like almost every time I'm going to accomplish something, that kind of drive and passion to accomplish it usually happens. I will do this today. I will accomplish this measure and I will not leave this practice room until this measure is seen to, you know? Oh, I love that. Do you have a favorite performance that has stayed with you throughout the years and why? okay this is not my performance this is well i'll tell you too this is a performance of a friend of mine i have kind of an interesting story about my violin the man who made it had been kind of badgering me about making me a violin and i had just bought one and i was actually sharing it

Starting point is 00:57:38 with another young violinist who who had a promising future but no access to any kind of instrument and I just barely bought this one and it was as much as I could afford and I actually put our entire life savings down on that violin back then and so I was not really anxious to uh you know have this guy make me a violin first of all I couldn't afford it and second of all um And, you know, it was, we were sharing this violin and I knew that this young man liked that violin at least. So anyway, this violin maker kept badgering me about it. And he finally said, well, I finally told him why I didn't want to do it.

Starting point is 00:58:21 And he said, well, how about this? You trade me that violin and I'll make you two, one for you and one for the young man. And that was something I couldn't refuse. it was a beautiful beautiful experience so now that young man has a violin and I have one too and I love I love that violin um so anyway when he came we all got together this young man and his teacher and me and we went to a pianist's house and we were just all kind of playing these new violins around. And, um, his teacher played the vocalist, I believe. Um, and I didn't know what it was. It wasn't, you know, perfect or, but to me, it was absolutely glorious. There was so

Starting point is 00:59:12 much feeling in that. And there was just so much energy in that room because of what had just transpired and the goodness and um the caring of this violin maker to do something so gracious for a young man who needed an instrument and so that was one and number two um was actually a funeral and i think of funerals as being an incredibly beautiful experience and usually um pretty spiritual as a musician, because I think that, you know, words, you can kind of meet with a person, you know, in their struggles and their suffering. But musicians, we have the unique capacity to actually be with someone in their agony and suffering. The music goes exactly to that space. And we hold in that same space as those who are grieving. And so I've always felt

Starting point is 01:00:12 like this incredible blessing when I have the opportunity to memorialize someone's life and in a way act as a healing conduit for those who are suffering from the loss. And I remember playing one time and thinking to myself, I had just an extra capacity that day for some reason and thinking, I don't think I could make a mistake. And then I remember in my mind, you'll laugh because it's it's such a mind game so I remember in my mind having that thought I don't think I could make a mistake it's just flowing so easy and then I thought I'll try and so I tried to make a mistake and it didn't actually you know and then I had to save myself because I realized no no you're still driving this car and if you really want to make a mistake you will but

Starting point is 01:00:59 but in any case that was probably um my you know the the performance that I look back at and um think I wish I could have that experience every time I play yeah don't we all yes flying absolutely yes Kimberly what's the best advice that was given to you that you would like to pass on to the listeners oh gosh there's so much and that's a tough one but I'm going to give you a couple. And they came actually from an old high school rival. And she told me, she said, I found that I could get very good at the violin if I would just keep going. Because most people give up. And so along the way, as she just kept going and she kept improving, all sorts of other people dropped out and she just kept going and kept improving so not that

Starting point is 01:02:02 I want to make it a comparison thing but I felt like that's really guided me because as an example I have a friend who's a cellist in New York excellent excellent cellist and I remember one time he said something about but you know I'm really just a chamber musician a good chamber musician and I think to myself yeah but you have to I mean if you didn't want to be that couldn't you go find a you know hut someplace and squirrel yourself away in there and practice scales like crazy and you know work your brains out and so you could come out emerge and a new creation of yourself a new iteration and so when I think of I found that I could become very good if I just wouldn't quit. And I think that also has to do with the level at which we're pushing

Starting point is 01:02:57 ourselves. So, you know, you can kind of plateau and stop taking on challenges, but that's another reason that I made the recital challenge because I feel like taking the risks and taking the challenges about the growth and shouldn't that be what we're kind of invested in. It's, it's about growth at the end of the day this violin this this instrument flute piano whatever you're playing it's it's about your own human experience your own journey and your growth that's what it's about you know and that's that's what will give you the fire i think didn't cam you say something like the struggle to the heights itself is enough to fill a man's soul in other words it's not the plateau of nirvana of just you know existing and being you know kind of coasting and finding

Starting point is 01:03:56 your balance point that brings the joy it's the struggle itself it's the work go you know if you want to be satisfied in your music go find something to work on that you know stretches you, challenges you. That's where the happiness is, I find. Absolutely. Kimberly, how about a quick actionable tip that listeners can implement today in their practice or their musical lives? Here's just one little one from a mommy. I think gratitude should be where every practice starts. And so if you're going to do an actionable tip, it would be to start your practice grateful for your ears be grateful that you have them and that you have this ability through these senses and through your body to make connections with other humans to send messages to to express and um

Starting point is 01:04:57 yeah i think that gratitude is probably the very best tool for any musician I love this thank you so much yes thank you I am very grateful for you see I'm starting my practice right already today I'm starting my practice I'm grateful for Renee Paul and her wonderful mind over finger podcast thank you Kimberly I'm so happy that you you know took my invitation and that we had this chance to to sit and chat for a little bit because I find everything that you do so inspiring I think that your mission is so noble and so needed and I hope that first of all I hope we have a chance to meet in person soon but I really hope that many people will take on the challenge and join you in this wonderful adventure and

Starting point is 01:05:56 And, yeah, I'm so grateful that we could chat together today. Oh, my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you guys so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed this conversation with violinist Kimberly Dre. There are so many incredible lessons from Kimberly's attitude towards life. And she's an amazing example of how powerful the human spirit gets when it's determined to overcome adversity. She got resourceful and figured out ways to implement structures and systems that would create the reality she wanted to live.

Starting point is 01:06:39 It's this wonderful adaptability that she talks about. And I also love what she said about letting go of expectations and figuring out a way to do the best that can be done in the moment. That's so often when we're tempted to give up, but having this approach can really help us stay in the game and move forward. And another point that she brought up that I want us to keep in mind is what she says about setting up her mind and deciding, I will do this. Adopting this mindset, deciding that you can do it, you can do hard things, is really the first step in succeeding and overcoming any challenge, big or small. And I can't think of

Starting point is 01:07:25 a more apropos or on point message in the middle of this unprecedented situation that we're all going through right now. On a lighter note, Kimberly wanted to add that the repetition work that she mentions doesn't involve mindless repetitions and that she's always careful to be fully present and making each one count before i let you go i have a few announcements as i was trying to find meaning in all of this i really felt the need to create something positive in the middle of this mess and i wanted to bring all of us together in the shared musical experience so i started the joyful practice challenge in the tribe my private facebook group so join the community there at facebook.com slash groups slash mind over finger tribe every day i share tips on

Starting point is 01:08:18 how to bring more joy and efficiency in your music making and you'll get to be inspired and encouraged by the amazing tribe members who are participating and sharing their experience and their findings the challenge goes on until march 31st and you can join anytime also as i mentioned in the intro the string virtual summit is being offered again for absolutely free starting this monday the 23rd it's an incredible resource with interviews with an amazing lineup of over 30 music experts including kimberly and me discussing every topic you can think of from practice to performance preparation anxiety management entrepreneurship overcoming injuries and so much more. You can find more info at stringvirtualsummit.com. So that's it for today.

Starting point is 01:09:12 Please let's stay in touch. Let us know what your thoughts are after listening to our conversation and how you're doing in the current circumstances. Kimberly is both on Facebook and Instagram. You can also find more info about Kimberly on her website at KimberlyDre.com. As always, I'll have all those links in the show notes. I send you all tons of love and my absolute best thoughts. Again, thank you and à bientôt.

The Mind Over Finger Podcast - 065 Kimberlee Dray: Adaptability & Mission in Music Making

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