The Mind Over Finger Podcast - 089 Leon Bosch: Musical Ambassador

Starting point is 00:00:00 You're listening to the Mind Over Finger Podcast, episode number 89. Welcome to the Mind Over Finger Podcast, discussions on mindful music making, efficient practice, and building a purposeful career. And now, your host, violinist, teacher, and high-performance coach, Dr. Renée Paul Gaultier. Hi, everyone. I hope you're doing great today. I'm so happy to bring you an exceptional person, an artist, and one of my favorite musicians, Leon Bosch. Leon is an internationally renowned classical double bass virtuoso. He has over a dozen solo CDs to his name. He regularly commissions repertoire for the instrument, and he performs recitals and concertos all around the world.

Starting point is 00:00:56 He is a professor of double bass at Trinity Laban Conservatoire of Music and Dance in London. He gives masterclasses in the U.S., Europe, South Africa, and the Far East, and he is a mentor for South African musicians worldwide. Leon grew up in 1960s and 70s South Africa, the son of the political activist Jonas Fred Bosch, and he himself spent time in a police cell for organizing protests while at school. He left the apartheid regime there to attend the Royal Northern College of Music in Manchester. Remaining in the UK, he was appointed principal double bass with the acclaimed Academy of St. Martin in the Fields. He left the post in 2014 to devote himself to his solo career, teaching, and to establishing his now thriving chamber ensemble, E Musicanti.

Starting point is 00:01:47 He also conducts and has a passion for researching lost or forgotten music for double bass. Away from music, Leon is a regular runner of marathons and ultra marathons, and he holds a master's degree in intelligence and international relations from Salford University. I enjoyed this conversation with Leon so much. We covered a lot of topics, including how his artistic journey unfolded and some of the fundamental principles he applied along the way, how he's mission-driven to be an advocate for the double bass, the importance to recognize opportunities and be prepared to deliver when they appear. The two ingredients he thinks are among the most important when it comes to

Starting point is 00:02:32 success. The system he developed and teaches for learning repertoire efficiently and fully, his views on curiosity, perfection of execution, art history, and so much more. Leon is a force of nature and a brilliant soul. As you'll hear, his wisdom runs deep and he sets an outstanding example of humanity and artistry for all of us. It was a great honor to speak with him and I know you'll love our discussion. Let's go to the show. Leon Bosch, it's a huge pleasure to have you on the show. Rene, it's my pleasure. It's been a while since we last saw each other and I'm delighted to be here. Leon, you're an artist making waves and having a profound impact in the classical music world.

Starting point is 00:03:35 And all of this is indissociable with the person that you are and by this incredible journey that is yours. And I would love to start our conversation there with this awe-inspiring journey. Would you please tell us about how your artistic path has unfolded? Well, the truth is I was never going to be an artist. I was going to be a lawyer. And it was purely, everything has been accidental in my musical life and my development. Although, of course, there are deliberate things I did to help my cause. But I grew up in South Africa, and my parents believed that music should be an integral part of my education.

Starting point is 00:04:12 And they bought a piano, and they also paid for music lessons, and then eventually I started learning to play the cello. And I only got to play the double bass later in life. I started the double bass at the age of 16 when I went to university. I went to university as a cellist. And my cello teacher, Edna Elphick, had been a student of Casals. And that was the first time, really, when I began to realize the power of music and also the question of what it took to be an instrumentalist. But when I started learning the bass, that's when everything changed.

Starting point is 00:04:40 I was taught by Zoltan Kovács, Hungarian bass player, who was the first principal in the World Orchestra for Peace. He was a phenomenal teacher. And within two years or less of starting to play the bass, I performed my first concerto. I've passed my final diploma with Flying Colours, and I then came to the United Kingdom. But I realised by the time I came here, the foundations of my artistic life had already been laid. And it was a fantastic foundation. I'd been taught in string orchestra by a man called Noel Travers.

Starting point is 00:05:11 All the basic repertoire and also the skill of how to play in an ensemble. It was a string ensemble ahead of its time. By the time I came to the United Kingdom, I knew all the solos from every single chamber orchestra symphony. I'd done so much. There were so many people that helped me. I've just been very lucky to encounter exactly the right person at the right point in my life. Noel Travers with the string orchestra, Edna Elphick, my cello teacher, Zoltan Kovac. Zoltan gave me a technique, and also he taught me the value of hard work. And in that practice room of mine, I discovered some fundamental principles about how the human mind works and also about how music works.

Starting point is 00:05:49 And this has in subsequent years or recently been written up. For example, the Pomodoro method is something which I developed in isolation in the third world, practicing every day. And I realized I needed to concentrate really hard and fast for 20 minutes at a time, walk away, think about it, come back. And I knew that I would not leave my practice room until something had happened. And I knew, I began to realize this question of myelinization, which everybody talks about now. But all these things I discovered. Also, I learned the repertoire from scratch. There was nobody else around me played the double bass, no students.

Starting point is 00:06:24 I was the only first study student. And my mental manifestations of the music, of what to recreate, came from recordings. So by the time I left music college in South Africa, I could play probably as well as I play today. All I have now is much more experience and also things are much more deliberate. then it was a voyage of discovery. And when I came to the United Kingdom, I went to study as a postgraduate at the Royal Northern College of Music.

Starting point is 00:06:46 And here again, I was privileged to run into the most extraordinary people. I was taught by Rodney Slatford and also Michael Calder, who was probably the youngest principal bass in the United Kingdom. He was principal of the Hallé. There was Sir Charles Groves, the conductor,

Starting point is 00:07:01 who I met quite by accident, and he championed my cause. And then I began to freelance. And everywhere I went to audition, I was lucky to be engaged to work but before I was 21 or maybe 22 I'd worked with some of the greatest greatest conductors already greatest soloists and I had a real vision of the world and how I wanted to enjoy music I never intended to have a career all I ever wanted to do was to play the double bass as well as I possibly could and to be able to enjoy it the career was

Starting point is 00:07:31 incidental but I mean one thing led to another and I became principal bass of the Camerata I offered a job in the Scottish National. I played with just about every orchestra in the United Kingdom outside of London. And then 11 years after I'd done that, I decided to leave. And it just so happened the Academies in Martinfields were looking for a principal double bass, and that happened to be me. I was just in the right place at the right time. And that journey, of course, was incredible. 20 years with the Academy, touring the world, playing the world's great concert halls with the greatest artists. And all I had to do was just turn up and play well. But the important thing, I think, also that I recognize now looking back is that I didn't just leave it at earning a living.

Starting point is 00:08:14 I had a mission in life. The bass was important to me. I was going to be an advocate for the instrument. I never forgot about the soloist in me. The reason I learned the bass was because I wanted to play the bass as a solo instrument. So throughout my orchestral career, I also had a career as a soloist. Regular recitals and regular concertos. I also played chamber music.

Starting point is 00:08:35 all the time. And things happen in peril. Also, new music, I realized that it is easy to just play the standard repertoire, but one gets a bit tired of playing Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto 500 times a year, or whatever it is. And that's, you know, my first commission was while I was still a student. I commissioned a fellow student who was my accompanist, but also a composer. And now, 30-odd years later, I've probably commissioned or had in excess of 200, 300 pieces written for me not just solo pieces but also chamber music so it's been an incredible journey and then I finally decided in 2014 to put an end to one part of that career which is Leon the orchestral player the prince with the academy I left the academy and started a new part

Starting point is 00:09:23 of my musical journey now to violinist is commonplace to direct your own concerto performances But for the bass, it's unusual. And actually, it was Sir Neville Mariner who suggested that I investigate this route. He thought that I should become a conductor and also suggested that next time I played a concerto with the Academy, I should conduct it myself. So I tried it and it worked fantastically well. So now I pursue a career not just as a bass player, but also as a conductor and as a soloist director. So the journey is ongoing. It's the most amazing thing.

Starting point is 00:09:56 Every time I think that, I mean, I could never get bored. There's always something new. Every day I get up, there's something new to attend to. I'm lucky also that new music arrives every day. Just this last few days, I received a most fantastic sonatina by a composer called Geoffrey Poole for double bass and piano. It's Lockdown Conversations, a sonata for socially distant double bass and piano.

Starting point is 00:10:23 So it's a beautifully integrated piece, but the two instruments never play at the same time. And if you didn't really know that, you might not even realize that it's been written in this extraordinary way. So all I can say really is that the musical journey for me has been the most unbelievably rewarding and enriching experience. And it will continue forever. There's never a day that I get up that I am not excited about music. This is really incredible, Leon. And, you know, you say that you were at the right place at the right time, but also knowing what I know about you and hearing you speak now, you use words like vision and mission.

Starting point is 00:11:03 And I know how thoughtful you are and thorough and dedicated. So I strongly believe that you were prepared when the opportunities came knocking. Oh, yes. I mean, it's important to be prepared for opportunities and also to recognize them. sometimes they come dressed up as hard work or inconvenience so you learn the talent of being able to identify great opportunities i mean the early on in my life the important thing i think was that i never said no if the telephone rang at 6 p.m asking me to drive 35 miles to go and sight read a concert at 7 30 i would just say yes and everybody knew they could trust me i would turn up in my tails, walk straight on stage and play whatever I was required to do.

Starting point is 00:11:53 So there was a willingness on my part always to challenge myself and to deliver. And it becomes a habit. You know, good habits and a good attitude are probably the most important parts of one's personality and the most important ingredients in success. Hearing you speak, there's also one word that comes to mind for me, and I have to ask you about it. Also, because in everything that I teach, including my system that I call the deep practice model, I put a lot of emphasis in what I call the mindful mindsets, such as having a beginner's mind. So if I say the word curiosity, I'd love to hear what that represents for you and how this curiosity and this interest, I know you have, how they have shaped your trajectory in your career.

Starting point is 00:12:45 look i've always been a bit of a maverick ever since i can my first conscious memory was of sitting on a public bus with my mother coming home from shopping and i was reading the fine print in the regulations pertaining to the transportation of passengers in the bus and as you know to understand the small print always gives you a better view of how the world really is it is easy to have an emotional view of the world and to think that it's rational but of course, one can be sadly disabused of that when reality strikes. Curiosity. I realized early on also that however much time I spent learning anything, there would always be more to learn, that learning is a lifelong process. For example, could I just tell a little story which will

Starting point is 00:13:35 illustrate this. I've played chamber music all my life. And anybody would imagine that the amount of time I've spent with chamber music, I would know all the major repertoire written for the instrument that includes double bass. But I have to tell you that it's only recently I discovered a set of quintets for double bass, string quartet with double bass, by a composer called Adolphe Blanc, who's, you know, from the mid-1800s. Incredibly beautiful and virtuosic things, music they in manuscript form and i found manuscripts and i got a very good ex-student of mine who's fabulous with you know sibelius to put it into a readable form and i now coach a quintet at trinity conservatoire and i learn the music in this way and this is what i mean

Starting point is 00:14:26 about curiosity it is possible to live with a very limited view of the world if all you ever sees what is in your field of vision you have to be able to see the dark you have to be able to look have eyes in the back of your head you have your the manner in which you perceive the world always has to be developed also it's these things are skills curiosity is a skill it's not something you turn on a monday morning and by tuesday the job's done it's a way of being and i learned this way of being very early in life. I always pride myself on being able to recognize a piece of music that I knew from the very first chord, the very first note. And I'm always looking for things to challenge that understanding that I have. New music, for example, also. I learned a way to learn

Starting point is 00:15:18 new music. It is easy to play music which one has heard many times. For example, to learn a Mozart Violin Concerto is relatively straightforward because everybody has heard it thousands of times so when you start learning a Mozart Concerto even if it's one that you haven't played before there are certain parameters within which it exists and it's relatively straightforward to deal with it, but when you're

Starting point is 00:15:39 presented with things that you don't even know how they go there's no performance tradition you have to start from scratch and that again is a skill and I developed this kind of thing again, curiosity one could call it, but I wanted to know what it took

Starting point is 00:15:54 to be able to present something to composers and make them smile. And I have a lot of experience now playing and recording music, but learning it very quickly. And like you, I have a method. I've developed what I call my accelerated learning algorithms. I have an algorithm for music, and it's almost foolproof. I've used it on all my students. I use it in masterclasses, and it works incredibly well.

Starting point is 00:16:21 And it's this question of, you call it mindfulness, this, knowing exactly what it is you're setting out to do. It's easy to go into a practice room and to play for hours on end without actually achieving anything. I'm very outcomes oriented. I want to know when I go into a room what it is I'm setting out to do. And whilst I'm in that room, I want to know that I'm working in order to achieve that goal. i write things down i have a notebook i've no well every idea that i ever have i write down and at the end of the year i can look through all the ideas i had and see which ones i've acted upon which have just gone to seed which are the good ones which are the bad ones every day at the end

Starting point is 00:17:09 of the day i write a to-do list of the most important things that i have to do tomorrow and then I start my day by working my way through that list sometimes things remain undone and as you know, because life is complicated new things get added to the list before you can even start to work on the first priority for the day and so curiosity for me is not just an adjective

Starting point is 00:17:33 or a noun or whatever it is a characteristic trait it's a way of being So I suppose of the many things you could call me, curiosity is one of those. Wasn't it also a name for, you know, the rovers on Mars? Curiosity. Discovering the unknown. I think, I hope that tells you something about my view of curiosity.

Starting point is 00:18:08 I love that system that you're talking about. and would you mind expending on that just a little bit more? I'm very curious. Yeah, look, anybody wants to learn a piece, they want to learn it because they love it. So that has to be the first

Starting point is 00:18:24 thing, that you learn something because you want to play it and also because you believe you have something unique to say in that piece. The algorithm presupposes a certain level of competence, of course. And then we begin with stage one.

Starting point is 00:18:44 Stage one is the question of continuity. Can you play all the right notes in the right order, in time and in tune? Who cares about the tempo, but all the right notes in time and in tune, in the right order. And then the second stage gets a little bit more complex. All those notes that you've now mastered have more detail. Every note has an articulation. it's either long or short or somewhere in between perhaps every note has a dynamic it's either loud or soft or somewhere in between can you play all those notes in the right order

Starting point is 00:19:22 in time and in tune with the correct dynamics and articulation stage two don't set out to achieve any more than those basics stage one all the right notes in time and in tune in the right order then add stage two articulation dynamics then comes stage three which is all the complex intellectual considerations every note has a purpose it's either going somewhere or comes from somewhere direct is phrasing direction also every note has a place in geography you in the exposition or in the development section in a sonata or in the recapitulation or it is an elegy which is lament for the dead or it's a scared so which is the joke So every note, you're either in the tonic or you're in the dominant.

Starting point is 00:20:07 Whichever key you're in, there's harmonic progression. There are all these intellectual considerations. And you have to understand every single thing about the mechanics of that piece of music you're playing. Also the question of time style. A piece of Baroque music, fundamentally different from the classical era or from the romantic era. So all these intellectual considerations. And then by the time you've mastered all those things in stage three, and you've got stage two and stage one behind you the final stage stage four is the thing which we

Starting point is 00:20:37 all aspire to aesthetics here you are you've mastered a piece of music you think you've understood what it means but what does that piece mean to you how do you bring your own vision of the world to bear in your interpretation how does it become personal in the way that i mean i'm sure that you are familiar with this wonderful video of the great violinists, where they all play a little bit from the Mendelssohn Concerto. And every single violinist sounds completely different in the same piece. And it is because it is their unique expression of human life and the understanding of it. So this is what stage four is. And if one can say that one has dealt with all those stages in a principled manner, then the final interpretation will be truly you. It will be

Starting point is 00:21:24 technically secure intellectually coherent and artistically beautiful so this is the algorithm and i think it works it gets results very quickly i love this because it's so thorough and it's a sound approach pun not intended That makes complete sense and incorporates, you know, establishing a solid base to start with, and then evolves into making space for the artistry. Indeed. Do you know, the other thing which occurs to me in this discussion is this question of perfection of execution versus virtuosity. everybody has the aspiration i think to have the epithet virtuoso attached to them but i have a feeling that as a human society especially in recent decades

Starting point is 00:22:23 we've begun to fire the wrong target perfection of execution is stage one playing all the right notes in the right order in time in tune and sometimes maybe faster than somebody else but that does not equal virtuosity. The great fiddle players, Yehudi Menuhin and you can name dozens of them from the 20th century they were all truly unique and it is a question of virtuosity the execution of music, getting to the essence of the music

Starting point is 00:22:53 how to affect the emotion of the listeners. For example, if this lesson was taught to me by a member of the audience in the United States in the concert I was playing. I was playing some Spanish music by Pedro Valls. It had never been played before in pub, well, at least not since Pedro Valls composed it. And Pedro Valls was virtuous and this music was tough,

Starting point is 00:23:19 but it was exciting. And at the end of the concert, this young woman came to me and she said, goodness gracious, it's almost as if you understand the Spanish language. and I said yeah it's very exciting music and she said you know

Starting point is 00:23:35 and I said it's also dangerous and she said yeah you know it's not so much the question is dangerous for you it's for us the way that you play it's like being at the circus you're watching somebody

Starting point is 00:23:45 in a tightrope and you wonder whether they're going to fall off whether they're going to stay on and she said you mastered that part of the music so well and this is the point of virtuosity

Starting point is 00:23:53 that you have to be able to touch the audience in this way to change the way they feel How often have we all been to concerts where the artist, and maybe I shouldn't use that word, the instrumentalist, plays all the right notes in the right order and we go home having not felt a single thing. We spend a lot of money, but, you know, and you also know that instrumentalists like that can nowadays make a very good living because the element of risk is not something which we're comfortable with in society. because to achieve anything of great beauty requires great risks to be taken. And it's in the nature of risk-taking that it doesn't always pay off.

Starting point is 00:24:35 Right. If we were Soviet artists, which we are not, we would have the time to be able to practice enough to take even greater risks, but to know that 99% of the time they're going to pay, it's going to be successful. In the way that we work in 21st century global music, we have very little time.

Starting point is 00:24:53 and in London especially we have less time than anywhere else in the world I got used to this way of working over the last 36 years where you can turn up to a three-hour rehearsal to play a program which is at least a couple of hours long and it's just once through there's the presumption that you've done all the work yourself that all you need to do is to turn up for a few minutes to make sure that you stay together and you have a few dynamics in common a few bones in common and that's it. The session business also. I've earned a fairly decent living from also being a good session musician, being able to sight read, to walk into the studio and to play whatever is on the music stand and also to be fairly algorithmic about it. When the music

Starting point is 00:25:40 says play fast, you play fast. When it says play slowly, you play slowly. Whichever key you know where you are, you just do exactly what's in front of you. You play with the click track. There's no room for interpretation. You're either in the middle of the click, the back of the click or the front. There are only limited things you can do when things are mechanical. But you have to be able to know the details and to see them very quickly. And if you do, you can survive. If you don't, life's very short as an artist. So I've learned a lot throughout my life. I've learned to do things which I never imagined possible. Do you know, the other thing I have to tell you is that when I left music college as a postgraduate student,

Starting point is 00:26:21 I won some competitions. I had a certain repertoire. I had four recital programs, half a dozen concertos, all from memory, and that was going to be what I was going to use to make a living as a soloist. But, you know, in the last 10 years alone, I've probably learned 150 new pieces. And I realize now that my repertoire has grown so much

Starting point is 00:26:47 since i left music college and of course to learn things well you need a lot of time and i wrestle with this problem always playing from memory is obviously ideal because when you play from memory you know it in a very different way and how well can you memorize and internalize things when you've got limited time so i constantly i'm constantly berating myself for not practicing enough not memorizing enough and forgetting things when i reflect i realize that i'm being very hard on myself that it's not possible to learn half a dozen new concertos a year and you know 20 new pieces last year i recorded two cds of completely new music nine new pieces on one cd and something like 15 on another and actually i think that's enough for one year

Starting point is 00:27:41 it's a really good list yes you know i i hear you talk now and it's you know what you and i met maybe 15 years ago i guess yes yeah and it's been so great since to follow your musical path and you know things changing you leaving the academy and doing all of this incredible work and it was so wonderful for me to listen to the two fantastic episodes on Contrabass Conversation with my friend Jason Heath and by the way I strongly encourage anyone listening today to go check out these episodes and I'll put links in the show notes and hearing you talk about virtuosity and approaching new repertoire in the first episode you did with Jason you mentioned your parents and how they had this ability to unleash talent in young people and i also know

Starting point is 00:28:40 that you have talked about talent in terms of um if i remember correctly physiological processes would you please tell us a little bit more about that yeah it's a everybody's reading about these things nowadays i mean there's so many wonderful books written about it everybody knows about the talent code and you know all the great coaches that have worked with great individuals and what it is that makes the difference i mean uh ten thousand hours we all know to think about the ten thousand hour rule but in my own life i've i developed understand some of these fundamental things without access to that literature which is now available and it came through experimentation i i realized that we live in a society that probably values knowledge above experience

Starting point is 00:29:27 but that we are involved in an art form which requires skill and skill is fundamentally different from knowledge yes you can listen to radio and listen to people presenting music and telling you everything about the music known to humanity but the sort of thing that you can look up in a dictionary and just repeat and you often also know when somebody's talking about music whether they've played it and the important thing in life i think for young people is to know who to go to when they need to learn something but first of all they have to know what they have to learn also i've had the good fortune to have been teaching for goodness knows 35 years And teaching, like playing an instrument, is also a question of skill.

Starting point is 00:30:19 I've talked about the question of virtuosity as a pedagogue. It's a skill. What is a virtuoso teacher? What's a virtuoso instrumentalist? And what are the similarities? And I began to discover with my students also that one of the most fundamental things to their success was the question of self-belief. when you make when you believe in somebody and you also encourage them to believe that they can do anything they will their level of achievement increases exponentially just with a question of

Starting point is 00:30:56 confidence some and i personally i had somebody in my early career who believed in me my first double bass teacher zoltan kovats and that is why i was able to perform a concerto in public two years or less after starting from zero on the bass. I can give you many great examples of students that have passed through my hands and have gone into great things and I want to use one example because it for me it's such a wonderful thing. A student postgraduate came to me in October last year. A very good musician and a wonderful technique. And he was struggling to find work as an instrumentalist. He was auditioning for rank and file jobs. And when I first heard him play, I realized very

Starting point is 00:31:45 quickly that perhaps he was applying for the wrong jobs. And I told him that I felt that he should be applying for principal jobs. And he kind of sniggered because he didn't believe that how could he possibly as an early 20-something year old be good enough but in any case I obliged him to apply for one of these principal jobs and lo and behold

Starting point is 00:32:07 he got a trial at which point he began to believe that this was possible then he applied for five more jobs as principal jobs and he auditioned and got trials for all of them I spoke to him a few days ago and he's like a different person

Starting point is 00:32:22 he's a different human being But we also worked really very hard in the practice room, in the teaching room. He comes to my house for additional time because one hour a week at conservatoire is not enough. But by the time he leaves here or the room at conservatoire, we have worked on the details of absolutely everything. And he also knows that learning is not just an intellectual process,

Starting point is 00:32:49 it's a physical process. when you've internalized something completely utterly it's automatic physically automatic and it means therefore that the mind is liberated to concentrate on other even higher aspirations rather than the mere execution of the physical aspect of being an instrumentalist and this is difficult i mean you know you have done so many wonderful things in your podcasts talking about these elements of you know uh instrumental virtuosity command of instruments intellectual processes deliberate i mean what is the holy grail the holy grail is deliberate practice but deliberate practice with what purpose in mind

Starting point is 00:33:37 you have to have a mental representation of what it is you're trying to create so with all my students i require them to have a very good idea of what it is they're trying to do but i also make sure that they have some intellectual underpinning of the idea that they think they want to recreate also an aesthetic understanding of what it is that's going to make this beautiful thing they're trying to create but also most importantly they have to know that what they create is truly and utterly unique and personal within the parameters of the music that presented to them. If you played some Mozart, it has to sound fundamentally different from Beethoven. And Haydn and Mozart are also different, and you have to

Starting point is 00:34:23 know why. My students were the string quintet whom I'm teaching, the quintet number seven by Adolf Blank. When they came to me they probably, I wouldn't say probably, they definitely couldn't play together. They They didn't know how to do it properly. Playing the same piece in the same room at the same time is not playing together. I gave them each a copy of the score, plus their individual part, and I required them to know from memory who was playing what at any given time. Because the truth is, you know, how long does it take you

Starting point is 00:35:02 and how many performances of a piece before you know what everybody else is doing? so a shortcut is to intellectually realize that you have to memorize the score and actually you know to tell you the truth this is a lesson I learned myself only in the last few years last six years when I started my journey as a conductor I began to realize that I didn't actually know my concertos as well as I thought I did I'd been turning up to orchestras throughout my life to perform solo concertos and I delegated responsibility for the orchestral parts to the conductor

Starting point is 00:35:37 but now I have to know absolutely every note of the score I have to know to whom to give attention when, I have to know when I'm going to face the front and when I'm going to turn around to face the orchestra and of course with a double bass this is much more difficult than being a violin soloist

Starting point is 00:35:55 and actually it has taught me a fundamental lesson also in And another aspect is, I don't know what you think of this idea, but have you ever discovered that often if a solist comes along, the conductor will say, what's your tempo of the first movement? And the solist will give you an impression, an emotional impression of what it is they want. They will never tell you a match, no marking. so I've gotten to the habit now of requiring

Starting point is 00:36:24 everybody that walks through my door at conservatoire or at my house for lessons to know the fundamental tempo of everything for orchestral excerpts for example what is the ideal relationship between the scherzo and the tri and Beethoven 7

Starting point is 00:36:40 what is the ideal tempo and it then gives you the possibility to be able to analyse performances when you go to concerts on the basis of objective criteria rather than just emotional likes and dislikes. So, you know, at this point in my life, I've begun to understand things a little better, even better than I thought I did until now. Leon, there's so much wisdom in everything that you say. And from a selfish perspective I wish we had seven more hours to do this but before I take you through a round

Starting point is 00:37:22 of rapid fire question if you have the time there's one more thing I'd like to know a little bit more about and and it's about everything that you're doing for the bass repertoire because your influence as a performer is undeniable as you said you're also a conductor now and the impact What you're having on the bass repertoire and the development of the double bass as a solo instrument is massive. Can you tell us more about the work that you're doing in this department? You've already mentioned a little bit about it, but the publications and the recordings and all of these things. I really want to hear a little bit more about that, if that's OK with you. Sure. I mean, the first piece I commissioned, as I told you, was from a fellow student, Ian Morgan Williams.

Starting point is 00:38:05 He's a Welsh composer and he wrote two pieces, Glide and Disglare, which are a pair. And then, not long after that, I won a competition where part of the prize was money for commission. And I commissioned the British composer John McCabe, who wrote this wonderful piece for me. I mean, it took me a long time to learn it, because this was early on in my journey with contemporary music for the double bass. And I think I didn't like it to begin with, and it was an emotional decision. But then I began to like it after I decided I would practice it every day for an hour for a month to see what happened. And before the month had ended, I fell in love with the piece. And so things began to develop, and what began as a trickle became an avalanche.

Starting point is 00:38:47 I concentrated for a while on British music, and I got great British composers to write for me. I recorded one disc called the 21st Century Double Bass, and I have enough music for two or three more discs of just British music alone. colombian composers so and then of course as a south african born double bass player of course everybody thinks of me as the british bass player but i'm south african born as you probably know i realized i never played south african music because there wasn't any so i started commissioning south african composers and i've just released a disc of music devoted to south african composers it's called the south african double bass and again i have enough music for three or four cds of South African music.

Starting point is 00:39:29 But I also realized that the music has to be available for other bass players to play. And publishing companies, of course, make decisions which are purely commercial. If they're not going to make money from something, it won't get published. So I felt that in addition to commissioning the music and recording it, I also had to publish it

Starting point is 00:39:46 to make it available to everybody else. And it's interesting because as soon as I release the CD, I get inquiries from people. Where can I find the music? i would like the music to live forever i'd like to know that young people everywhere in the world are going to play these pieces forever it's an investment in the future there's the question of standard repertoire versus the new the relationship between the virtuoso and the composer and the virtuoso as composer think of any great fiddle concerto there was somebody that was instrumental

Starting point is 00:40:20 in bringing it to life and also for it being written. Joachim and Brahms, personal relationship. Every single great piece of music, there was a reason why it was written. So if I can be the person that allows things to happen, and my commitment is very simple. I just have to play it in public, commit to playing it in public as often as I can.

Starting point is 00:40:44 And I have to say that every composer that has written for me is not just a composer who gets paid to write. They're good friends. They're people with whom I share a philosophical outlook and a musical outlook. And they know that I'm committed to the music that they write for me. I might not be able to tell them when I'm going to play it,

Starting point is 00:41:02 once it's been written, but once it gets to the top of my to-do list, I'm like a dog with a bone. I don't let it go till it's done. So, for example, I have a pile of new music on my music stand at the moment. Two of the pieces are really special, but I've not played them with piano yet

Starting point is 00:41:18 so I've hired a venue where there's a beautiful piano and on Thursday next week I'm going to go and rehearse these two new pieces just to see how they go and then they will probably be on list to be recorded in time so I think I'm in the luxurious position

Starting point is 00:41:36 of having played most of the standard repertoire over and over and over again and I don't have to play Bottasini in public anymore, I don't have to play Kuzivitsky, I don't have to play any of the standard I've done it And now I can decide to be the champion of those composers who wish to write for us. On radio, if I'm going to go to a BBC studio to play something,

Starting point is 00:41:59 I'm in the luxurious position of being able to say, I'd like to play this piece. And it's usually going to be a contemporary piece of music. So we all have a duty to have something for the future and also to make sure that we champion our friends who are composers. Music is not just about us instrumentalists. It's about everybody. So, I mean, for me, it's become, again, a way of life. I don't have to think about commissioning music or think about playing music.

Starting point is 00:42:25 It's just part of who I am. And the publishing part is relatively new, but I think it's as important a contribution to the future. This is such important work. And the bass is so lucky to have an advocate such as you. well the base kind of as i told you at the very beginning i didn't choose the base the base chose me oh this is great do you have time for a round of rapid fire question absolutely or that not so rapid fire questions as i like to call them leon what's your favorite tool in the practice room and why? It has to be the mirror. And I tell you in one sentence why I think the mirror is such an

Starting point is 00:43:15 important tool. Great playing doesn't only sound great, it looks great too. If you cannot see yourself phrasing in the mirror, or you cannot understand the phrasing by just looking at what you're doing with your bow, then it's not good enough. The mirror tells you all the things that you sometimes don't want to know you know but holding up a mirror to yourself it's important it's the most for me it's been a very useful tool throughout my life the music room i practiced in south africa university had a full-length mirror on the wall and i could see what i was doing if my bow wasn't straight i knew i couldn't lie to myself so the mirror remains the most important to in my opinion and sometimes i wish we had a mirror that could show us what we're thinking

Starting point is 00:44:06 yeah wouldn't that be great what skills do you think young musicians studying today should acquire in addition to learning to play their instruments yeah i practicing in isolation is never the solution what does it take to be a good musician a successful musician it requires many skills. Interpersonal skills, skills as a writer, skills as an accountant, skills as a publicist, all the things that you have to do in order to have a career. Just in the last, you know, few weeks, we're having a building project at home. And I had to clear out the garage, which has boxes upon boxes of documents. And as these dusty boxes fell apart, I would look at some of the documents and I found letters typewritten letters that I wrote in my early career writing

Starting point is 00:45:01 to orchestras writing to music clubs doing all sorts of things to further the cause of music to get up in the morning it's not good enough just to go into practice room to practice the world has to know that you exist and also you have to connect with the world and you also have to understand who does what in the world can you buy an air ticket can you transport your instrument safely as a double bass player? Do you have a bass box? Do you know that, you know, there are so many logistical things. The world is a very complex place in the 21st century.

Starting point is 00:45:35 So a lot of musicians, young musicians, have to learn lots of skills. But the most important thing is to know what you need to learn and where to go to learn it. I love that. What a great answer. What's a habit that you have that you think has contributed to your success? Oh, that's one's quite simple, really. To be completely obsessed with something is the only way to make anything of it.

Starting point is 00:45:59 I've been obsessed with music since I was a child. Every day of my life, I play, I listen, I read, I do something significant related to my profession and to music. Complete and total immersion. A very inspiring answer also. Is there a performance that has stayed with you throughout the years? And if so, why? You know, there are many special moments in my life and in my musical life.

Starting point is 00:46:31 But again, I was reminded about this moment because of a pile of boxes in the garage. There's a poster dating back to November 1984. It is my concerto debut with the Philharmonic Orchestra in London. I was still a student, but I somehow got engaged to play Bottasini with the Philharmonic Orchestra. And actually, that was a great turning point. And I remember that day with great affection. I love that. How about a piece of advice that was given to you that you would like to pass on to the listeners?

Starting point is 00:47:11 To listeners Difficult I think it comes down to this Life is a complex journey And if your dreams and ambitions Don't terrify you then they're not big enough I love that

Starting point is 00:47:48 yes and I feel like it ties into also what you were saying earlier about the risk taking it takes us beautiful places it does I mean look to be average or mediocre requires no effort whatsoever when you take risks

Starting point is 00:48:06 you're sometimes going to fail so you have i mean i remember and i just want to tell you a very quick story about peter cropper who was the leader of the lindsey string quartet i worked with him for over 20 years peter cropper was an inveterate risk taker and sometimes things fell off spectacularly but when they worked it was the most unbelievable music making i remember driving home from a concert after we played the Dvořák Quintet Op. 77. It was the most beautiful performance. I got home and I couldn't sleep.

Starting point is 00:48:43 I dreamed about how we had played some of the most exquisite parts of the slow movement. I dreamed about, yeah. That's, in a nutshell, you know, what music should be about. That's wonderful. Finally, how about a quick actionable tip that the listeners could implement today in their musical lives? If you wish for eternal growth, then every day you have to do something which feeds into that philosophy of eternal growth.

Starting point is 00:49:12 You have to discover a new piece of music every day. You also have to discover a new book or an author and commit to dealing with it. I mean, my house is filled with books and music. When I started Life as a Conductor, I started buying conductor scores as kind of obsessively as I had bought chamber music and bass music. Even if I haven't read every book in the house, having the book in the house demonstrates my commitment

Starting point is 00:49:44 to learning something new. Every piece of music I've ever bought, I've intended to play. Now I've got around to playing most of them, but there are some things which I still haven't found the opportunity to perform. So for everybody, I would like to say, every day, discover a new piece of music, discover a new book, and commit to dealing with it as quickly as you can. Fantastic advice.

Starting point is 00:50:10 Leon, I think that the listeners now probably know why you're one of my favorite artists. Thank you so much for this incredible wealth of wisdom and inspiration you've shared with us today. Renée, thank you very much. It's a pleasure to see you. Thank you guys so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Leon Bosch.

Starting point is 00:50:42 And if you did and you relate to what we talked about, let us know by getting in touch with us and let's keep this discussion going. I'm Mind Over Finger on both Instagram and Facebook, and he's Leon Enrique Bosch. I hope you take some time to check out Leon's incredible content, whether it's his website or some of his performances on YouTube or the Contrabass Conversations episodes I mentioned. And as always, I'll have all of this information for you in the show notes. And you can find these show notes via your podcast app or by visiting mindoverfinger.com

Starting point is 00:51:17 where you can also find more information about mindful and efficient practice, performance preparation, and how to work with me. While you're there, sign up for my newsletter and receive your free guide to an exceptionally productive practice using the metronome also a few words to let you know that the music mastery experience will be back in june and i cannot wait this is my life-changing highly personalized group coaching program where i show you how to implement mindful and effective practice techniques make them habits and get results in the practice room, the teaching studio, and on stage. One of my participants, Lauren, had this to say about the music mastery experience. It's hard to put into words how much the music mastery experience has

Starting point is 00:52:09 given me. I'm coming out of the course with greater self-knowledge, deeper confidence in myself as a musician, and a new sense of scope for my abilities as a performer. I met musicians from around the world who I now feel very close to. We learned from and supported each other in a time when so many musicians are feeling very isolated. Renee's trainings were full of information and insight and I know I will be returning to my MME binder many times in the coming years when I need some perspective, a new practice technique, or a bit of inspiration. I'm so grateful for Renee's mentorship and for the experience of taking this course. Thank you, Lauren. And if getting those kind of results sounds like something you would like, it's not too early to save your

Starting point is 00:52:58 spot. And if you sign up now, you get access to some pretty cool bonuses. So go to mindoverfinger.com slash MME and let's talk. Finally, if you're looking for a community of mindful practice enthusiasts join the Mind Over Finger tribe. That's my private Facebook group where I pop in once a week to talk about mindful practice and answer your questions and where you can exchange with fellow musicians about practicing and music making. So that's it for today. Again, thank you and à bientôt! Thank you.

The Mind Over Finger Podcast - 089 Leon Bosch: Musical Ambassador

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.