The Mind Over Finger Podcast - 113 Elizabeth Rowe: Shaping the Future

Starting point is 00:00:00 You're listening to the Mind Over Finger Podcast, episode number 113. Welcome to the Mind Over Finger Podcast, discussions on mindful music making, efficient practice, and building a purposeful career. And now, your host, violinist, teacher, and high performance coach for musicians, Dr. Renée Paul Gaultier. Hi, everyone. I hope you're having an amazing day as you tune in to this episode. Today, I have a fantastic conversation for you. I speak with the amazing Elizabeth Rowe. Elizabeth is the principal flutist of the Boston Symphony Orchestra.

Starting point is 00:00:49 She's a professional coach, a teacher, a social justice advocate, and a public speaker. After she took a stand to demand equal pay from her employer in 2018, the Boston Globe honored her as a Bostonian of the Year, calling her the fighter. Her ongoing commitment to opening up dialogue about complex subjects led to her TEDx talk, The Lonely Ones, where she shared her personal story of learning to embrace the powers of imagination and vulnerability to create connection and community. Elizabeth's coaching practice supports creative people of all types as they work to achieve their biggest vision for their personal and professional lives while remaining true to themselves. Your Tenure Team is her program which supports and equips musicians to prepare for and successfully navigate the orchestral tenure process.

Starting point is 00:01:45 In our discussion, Elizabeth shares incredible insight on many topics, including, of course, how to navigate the tenure process, grow into a position without losing your footing, how she prepares for concerts, finding balance in a busy schedule, and so much more. I walked away from our time together completely inspired and motivated, and I know you'll feel the same way. Let's go to the show. Elizabeth Rowe, it's such a pleasure to have you on the show today. Thank you for having me. And I'm really looking forward to this conversation with you. Elizabeth, you have such an incredible path and there are so many things I love and admire about you. And I'd love to just simply start by having you tell us about yourself. So please tell us about your journey and how your musical path has unfolded. Yes. Well, the very short version is

Starting point is 00:02:54 that I am currently the principal flutist of the Boston Symphony Orchestra. And I'm also a coach who supports creative people and other professional people around all sorts of goals and projects that they have in their professional lives. I started the flute when I was seven and didn't envision a musical career for myself, but just followed my love and had a very supportive family and went to school in Los Angeles for my undergrad and then proceeded to perform with the New World Symphony for a couple of years and then moved through several different orchestras on my way to Boston. So I've been in Boston now, oh gosh, 17 years. Thank you so much for sharing this. And as you've just told us, in addition to your position in the Boston Symphony,

Starting point is 00:03:49 you coach musicians on many topics, including more specifically on the tenure process, and you're an advocate for gender equity. And I'd love for us to have time to cover all of these three aspects today because I feel like it demonstrates how musicians' impact go well beyond the scope of simply playing their instrument. And I say simply, but we know it's a big process to just play our instrument. Can we start actually with the tenure process? And if you're listening, you absolutely must download Elizabeth's comprehensive guide to navigating the tenure process. It's called Turning the Tables on Tenure. And I'll have a link in the show notes for you. And Elizabeth, I know that you come to this process with such kindness,

Starting point is 00:04:39 such a spirit of alignment, and it can definitely involve a lot of calculation in politics to go through a tenure process. But I like how you advocate for a much more humane, kind, and deep approach to this process and to also holding a position in an orchestra so as you say in your guide you've won an audition this is huge now what yeah and I think this is you know the tenure process is almost like um it's it's like a little microcosm of our lives as musicians as a whole because I think for so many of us, we spend our early years, our formative years, just focused on a goal, the goal. And, you know, for many of us, it is winning a job or winning a job in an orchestra. And we, we often in the process of focusing on that goal, allow that goal to kind

Starting point is 00:05:38 of consume us to the point where we don't really have space in our lives. We don't make space to think about who are we? What is the rest of our life? What do we need as people? And so then we arrive in these jobs and we face this tenure process, which is a sometimes, oftentimes very challenging period when we are essentially being measured and scrutinized and evaluated by our peers, by the music director. And we are asked often to bring skills to that, which are not skills that we needed to win the audition they're not skills that we necessarily even thought about in our development or in our our work that had brought us to that point so skills like you know communication giving and receiving feedback how to stay true to your

Starting point is 00:06:27 own voice how to even know what your own voice is how to understand your opportunities to grow but not lose your own footing. How to navigate politics and how to kind of have a sophisticated way of making your way through often very challenging circumstances that are oftentimes actually quite unfair. And one of the stances that I really take when talking about this process is that I think it's a both and. Both we need to equip musicians, younger musicians, new professional musicians with that breadth of skills and that range of awareness about what the job asks and what it requires for the whole person. And also there's a lot of work that we as an industry need to do to make the process more humane, more fair, more transparent, more ethical, all of that. So I

Starting point is 00:07:26 think it's on both sides of this equation. There's a lot of opportunity to make this a better process. So most of my focus right now is really on the support side as far as supporting the musicians who are going through the process. And I also really want to take time to acknowledge that, you know, it's really not fair to ask those young musicians to shoulder the entire burden of solving this problem. I just want to give them all the skills and help them develop the skills that they need to be able to experience it with as much ease as possible. I love that and I love that you bring this up how both the person who's going through the process needs to show up but also how the process itself could be better and that's one of the things I love in the guide I'm telling the listeners again they must download it it's so great because you give so much great information on how to prepare how to show up as the person going through the process and also what to expect and how to react in case they're facing certain situations. And I love what you said about how we can stay true to our own voice. Also how to figure

Starting point is 00:08:37 this out. It's not always easy, but how do we do that? You know, you show up and you play. If you become over analytical, then you're not able to play your best. And this is actually the time when you need to be playing at your best. So, so much great information in this guide. Yeah. And I think even just that question, as you posed it, isn't a question that we think about much when we're envisioning our lives as professional musicians. We, you know, we spend so much time working on our craft and developing the skill set to win an audition or to win a competition. And that question of as a professional musician, you know, what is our artistic opportunity? What does growth look like as a professional musician?

Starting point is 00:09:23 How do we respond to feedback? Is it something that we allow to crush us, to disorient us, to undermine us? Or is it something that we can step away from a little bit, take a look at and say, is part of this true? Is part of this not true? Do I believe some of this? Do I believe any of this? How do I integrate this into my playing, if at all?

Starting point is 00:09:44 How do I grow? And I think it's hard. I mean, I speak about this as if I have this all figured out, and I'm the first to say that I find it really hard to receive critical feedback and to not have it immediately put me in a defensive place and to give myself permission to kind of have that little flare of resistance and defensiveness and then take a breath and say, okay, is there something in here? Or can I learn? Maybe yes, maybe no, but to give myself permission to explore that and to allow myself as an artist to have space to think about that. And I think this is a conversation and a subject that is not usually part of our education process early on as musicians. Yeah. And beyond the scope of the tenure process, too, is how can we be on a daily basis a better colleague for everyone else in the orchestra? How can we not only welcome the newcomers in the way that is supportive, make them feel comfortable and offer guidance when needed, but also show up as a supportive colleague for all of our musician friends around us at work? I agree. And I think one of the, you know, one of the lessons that I learned early in my career, I, when we are in school in, you know, conservatory or wherever we're studying for music, we tend to be surrounded by people who are pretty similar to us, same age, same stage in life. and I went from my undergrad to playing with the New World Symphony lots of folks who are really similar to me in that way and then when I moved into the professional world and joined professional

Starting point is 00:11:22 orchestras suddenly you have people who are decades into their career you have folks who are brand new you have people who are raising families you have people who are caring for elderly parents you have people who are injured people who were trained in a style of teaching and learning that was based on you know fear and shame and they perpetuate that in their own work you have you know we so we we encounter all these different kinds of people and that's often for us the first time that we have are asked to be in relationship with people who are at such different stages of of life and I think something that was very helpful for me and that is often helpful for people in general is to remember that, you know, we often tend to tell stories about other people.

Starting point is 00:12:11 We make up stories. This person is this, this person is this way because of this. And we do this, all of us, it's human nature. We take a look at somebody and say, they're so successful because they fill in the blank, or they are disorganized and not showing up for work on time because they fill in the blank. And we tend to kind of complete those sentences without about really a full understanding of the circumstances. And so I often invite the people that I work with to take a step back and to say, is this a story that I'm telling? And how much of this do I actually know to be true? And if not, might there be a different story? Might there be another way to look at this? And might that hold space for these other people who are

Starting point is 00:12:50 so different from me to have their own truths and their own kind of explanation for who they are and how they are. And that often helps us, each of us have more compassion for each other, have more imagination for what is the worldview of somebody else. And that can go a long way towards our own happiness on the job because we hold more space for other people and allows us to extend a lot more compassion and create healthier relationships with our colleagues. So well put. Thank you, Elizabeth. You know, a question I often ask in the round of rapid fire is, what is your life like? And I think that a lot of musicians would have this question for you. What is it like to be the principal flute of an orchestra like the Boston Symphony? Can you tell

Starting point is 00:13:39 us a little bit about what that looks like? Yeah, sure. And I want to also say that my answer today, 17 years into this particular job, and many more years than that into my career, is different than my answer would have been 10 years ago, or 15 years ago. So when I first joined the orchestra, it felt very all-consuming to me, the responsibilities of being a principal flutist of a major orchestra. There was a lot of legacy connected to my position in the orchestra. I felt a tremendous responsibility to perform at what I thought was the level that was commensurate to a job like this and to fill some shoes and to kind of be whatever this idea of a principal flute player is. And I, for many years, I found it very challenging to

Starting point is 00:14:32 maintain the workload. You know, it's a, we do four performances a week. It's a 52 week orchestra, which means that we, you know, work year round. Repertoire comes very fast and we play almost all really substantial repertoire. So, you know, it's a week of Mahler and then a week of Shostakovich and then it's the Firebird and then we're doing, you know, Sibelius and then it's Bruckner and then it's, you know, and it, and then it's, you know, an all Ravel program. And then it's a program of, you know, a world premiere. And so that combined with the visibility, the touring schedule, recording schedule, it felt to me really challenging. And for a long time, I wasn't able to really add a lot to my professional life. I didn't teach for a while. I didn't do master

Starting point is 00:15:25 classes. I didn't do any of that because I felt that I needed to focus my energy on that piece of my career. And I've always been somebody who really needs a lot of rest, who needs downtime, quiet time, all of that. So for me, for a while, I would say it was pretty all-consuming. And as time has passed, this is one of these things that I always find it frustrating when people say that, Well, in five years, it'll be different. And I'm always like, no, this is how it is now. And it's never going to change. And of course, in five years, it is always different. And for me, as I have moved through my career, I have found more ease with my role, obviously more experience playing the repertoire, more comfort with owning my own artistic voice, less insecure about my voice, like more comfortable with just saying this is who I am. this is how I play and it isn't for everyone and that's okay and for a while filling a position like this with so much visibility I think I felt a lot of pressure to kind of be the flute player everybody wanted and of course that's not possible yeah it's such a good point that you bring because

Starting point is 00:16:34 sometimes when we first show up we feel like we have to be everything right away and I think that We need to understand the importance of acquiring the experience, like what you're talking about. And you can't be everything to everyone, for sure. When we go with this approach, it's very self-destructive. Absolutely. And it used to really, you know, here's another kind of both and, because when I first joined the orchestra, after a period of time, I would get a lot of feedback, which went something along the lines of, oh, you've grown so much, and oh, you've grown so much on the job.

Starting point is 00:17:08 And it used to really frustrate me because it felt patronizing to me. And I think it is patronizing. And it's also true. And I think now that I've had some distance on that, I can see with a lot of clarity that all of us, every single one of us grows. Well, ideally, we grow on the job, right? Ideally, we change, we evolve, we deepen our artistic voice. We also become more, especially in a job like this, where we tend to stay for a long time and where the acoustics of our environment have such an impact on how we approach music. So I play in Symphony Hall, and that's a very specific acoustical environment. And over time, we become more and more integrated into all of that, and it becomes integrated into us. So, of course, we grow. And at the time, I certainly didn't want to hear about it. you just mentioned how you're someone who needs to rest and have time by herself how does that work what advice would you give to young musicians who you know are entering let's say a new position

Starting point is 00:18:10 and are having a hard time finding this balance that's a great question i think i'm lucky because this was something my parents actually prioritized when i was a child was this idea of downtime quiet time, rest. And I think it's a little bit of a generational thing that I grew up a little bit before kids started getting really hyper scheduled and had lots of extracurriculars. And so that to me was always came to me naturally. I think, however, that a more mindful approach is really necessary for most people these days. And because we're in a 24 seven world now and with social media and with the internet and with the, I sound old, the internet and with the ways in which we are all accessible, available, that I think now more than ever, that to be really

Starting point is 00:19:06 intentional about what is downtime for me, what do I need? What does that look like? Also to not, to take the time to learn what that really is for you, because it's not a one size fits all answer. So for some people, solitude is incredibly important and restorative. For other people, time with friends is the way they kind of restore themselves and regain energy. But regardless of what your method or methods are of finding balance in that way, time away from work, time away from that pressure, time away from that sense of drive and that sense of having to be on, I think is critical. And for me, that even moves into a practice session, right? So to just pick up your instrument and play for two hours straight, to me, I've never been able to do that

Starting point is 00:19:56 even. And yet I find that I work with a lot of musicians and non-musicians who approach work that way. They just start and they go until they collapse somehow. And rather than being mindful about what kind of breaks do I need to schedule, what does a break look like for me even? Ooh, that's a good question. Yeah. Yeah. What does a break look like? Right.

Starting point is 00:20:17 And again, it's not a one-size-fits-all answer, but to start first with that question or that acknowledgement that we do our best work when we also have space away from that work and time away from it and time to both allow ourselves to recover and recuperate and also time for our minds to synthesize what it is we've been doing and time for our brains to find a creative spark and to have enough space from the work we're doing to then be able to reconnect with our creativity instead of kind of driving driving driving all the time ah you've touched on so many important points right now i think we all need to take notes from what you just shared yes these questions if someone takes the time to ponder on them could bring so much insight for all of us

Starting point is 00:21:08 yeah i agree and i think again it's not that i think that the thing that's most important is to start with the question and to look to yourself for the answer we can look to others for inspiration for ideas for guidance and also we ourselves have the opportunity and the obligation to discover what this means for ourselves. And so I think the invitation is to ask yourself the question, what does a break look like for me? What does rest look like for me? Or the question of what is a balanced life look like for me? Simply asking that question is an enormous step for most of us. And then also sitting with it long enough to start to discover what your own individual answer is, as opposed to following somebody else's template or a book or something.

Starting point is 00:21:58 Right. Really well put. Elizabeth, can you talk to us a little bit about your work as an advocate? Yes. So I was in the newspapers a little while ago for having filed and successfully settled an equal pay lawsuit against the Boston Symphony. And really, the piece of this that I think is important to be talking about now is that our industry in general has an incredible opportunity brought about by its failure to fully address a lot of really significant issues that are really top of mind for our whole culture and our whole society right now. So issues of equity, of diversity, of inclusion, of belonging, all of this, and it's around race, around gender, around programming. around hiring, compensation, all of that. And these are conversations that we are beginning to have in our industry. And I'm really excited about that. I see my role as less about providing answers, again, and more about inviting discussion,

Starting point is 00:23:13 prompting discussion, shining a light on the opportunity that exists, right? The fact that orchestras still do not have any kind of common consensus about how pay is determined that we're still in an industry where in some cases it's a complete free for all and also that we're in an industry where we are still heavily focused on the repertoire of the same kind of European tradition that we've been focused on and which has much to offer us as you know the Brahms and the Beethoven and all of that which is really wonderful and the great history of male conductors and of all of this there's this is great and there's so much room to expand and explore and to invite a much richer experience and environment so i see all of this as part of

Starting point is 00:24:05 this larger broader conversation that we need to be having in our industry about what does a what does the classical music world look like now and what are the ways in which we are inviting and welcoming that broader more representative more equitable vision for what our what our art form can be and what are the ways that we are still resisting and holding back and are invested in the old ways and when we are invested in the old ways why and who's benefiting from that so these are the questions that i think are really interesting important i see my lawsuit as one of the many ways of simply drawing attention to this challenge that we face. And I have so much confidence that there are smart, wonderful human beings out in the world who can help our industry

Starting point is 00:25:01 really sort this out and figure this out if we commit to it, if we're interested in actually seeing that happen. And I think that's still kind of an open question for the industry in general, and specifically for orchestras, for classical orchestras in this country. I love how you put it because I feel like there is a lot of bashing of the classical music industry for reasons that are valid, of course. But I love how the way you approach it is in creating a richer experience and environment to borrow your words. And I'm so grateful that you had the courage to step forward and do what you just said, which is create these opportunities for discussion. It's so important for us to maybe be inspired by your actions and see how we can come into our own power to advocate for the causes that we believe in, in the way that is productive. yeah and I think that so often these conversations get bogged down in this idea of it's like a scarcity mentality right it's the idea that there is pumpkin pie here we are in November so I'll say

Starting point is 00:26:08 a pumpkin pie and there's only so many pieces of pie and if we invite somebody else to have a piece of pie then my piece is going to get smaller and then if we invite somebody else to have a piece of the pie than ever and that's not the way it is so we just need to have more pie a bigger pie add pumpkin pie or apple pie add pecan pie like let's go for it let's let's let's widen our vision of what is possible and the idea that if we want to address for example pay equity within our industry i think that there's so much opportunity to do it in a way that lifts everyone up and that gives everyone confidence in in our industry in themselves in the um in the values and ethics that that we I think all of us want to see or most of us want to see and we I think we do get sidetracked

Starting point is 00:27:00 by this kind of scarcity idea of well if this is why we're it's very deeply uncomfortable for individual musicians to talk about our compensation because you know we if we're highly compensated as an individual and we share that with someone else the idea is that we share that and then they might get an increase in their own compensation but would that then make me less special or would that somehow reduce what's available to me? I think that is at play sometimes in what we face in this conversation. And conversely, if you are undercompensated, if you are compensated less than peers or less than your colleagues, then the idea of, well, what does that mean about me? Does that mean I actually am less valuable? So it's very complex. Talking about money is always

Starting point is 00:27:45 challenging in all conversations in our industry outside of our industry talking about opening up and even stepping away from money but programming from who we see on the podium to how we run our auditions all of that when we think about opening that up often the first response is well what do we lose like what do I lose from that and I think if we can shift that conversation and just as you said be productive be additive be like expand the conversation rather than then being defensive isn't the right word but sort of hoarding you know hoarding power hoarding access hoarding money whatever that might be i think that's a it's a it's a it's a it's a healthier way to go about this so well put thank you so much for this elizabeth how about a round of rapid fire

Starting point is 00:28:30 questions before i let you go fire away i'm going to start with one of my favorite because i always want to know everyone's secrets what's a habit that you have that you think contributed to your success? Aside from sleep, I would say if we want to get to practical tools, I would say in the practice room, it was learning to record myself early in the process, early, early, early, and using it not as a form of judgment, but as an opportunity to get curious about my playing. And that transformed my work in the practice room. And I absolutely believe that that contributed to my success. Thank you for sharing this, because I always try to get my students and my clients to record themselves more. So the more people talk about recording themselves, the more I can back

Starting point is 00:29:18 up my point. Yeah. I actually find that for me, what helped me the most, and I find that one of the biggest stumbling blocks for folks is that they wait too long to record themselves. And then they record themselves as this big test, like, oh gosh, now I find out what is truth. And if we waited to do that with other tools, like the tuner or the metronome or other things that we worked with, we would, we understand intuitively that that's not a practical approach, but with, with recording, somehow we set ourselves up that way. So I invite folks to start really early when you know, there's problems when you know that this is, and to say, oh, this phrase isn't working. Let me record myself and maybe I'll have an insight and maybe I can learn and little bits

Starting point is 00:29:57 and pieces early on. It takes away that whole pressure situation. And then I find that it is highly efficient at helping us develop our voice, clarity on what we're doing, helps us learn what we need to be focusing on and are practicing early on. It's such a great tool and there's a lot of fear connected to it. Yeah. Thanks so much for bringing this up because that's what I hear the most is people are reluctant to do it because one, they get judgmental. So what you said about seeing this as an opportunity to get curious is absolutely right on. And also they get very judgmental. So they're so afraid and they wait too long. And I always say, can you record at least once per practice session? And it doesn't have to be the whole piece. Can you record

Starting point is 00:30:45 four measures, the four measures you just worked on? Can you record them? And I agree with you. I feel like I save so much time because from recording myself, actually recording yourself before you start working on a passage would show you exactly where the problems are. And sometimes they're not where we think they are. It's such a time saver. I agree. And I will even ask if people are really stumped, especially about the shaping of a phrase, let's say like a musical shape.

Starting point is 00:31:15 I will encourage people to sing it to record it and sing it record themselves singing it and then to play it and to look for what does and doesn't line up between those two versions and that's often a really helpful way to get connected to our artistry as opposed to being distracted by all the technical challenges that we face on our instruments I love that what skills do you think young musicians studying today should acquire in addition to learning to play their instruments? Oh gosh, well, if developing a balanced life counts as a skill, I would say that would be it. More practically, I would say communication skills. So much of what we need in our professional world and also in our personal lives is communication skills. And that can have to do with learning how

Starting point is 00:32:12 to ask good questions, learning how to listen to people well, learning how to stay present in a conversation, even a difficult conversation, all of that, I think that can apply in so many contexts from the tenure process to chamber music rehearsals to when you work with students to, there's so many ways in which communication is at the heart of what we do. And I feel like that specific part of it, communicating with words versus communicating through our instruments is overlooked. And so to prioritize that, I think would be really wise for all of us, frankly. So helpful. Do you have a favorite book that you would recommend to the listeners? Oh, gosh. Well, you know, the book that I find that I find myself recommending more and more,

Starting point is 00:33:00 especially to musicians who I work with, but I think in general also is Kristen Neff's book on self-compassion. And I think she does really beautiful work to debunk this idea that being kind or compassionate to ourselves will make us weak, lazy. I think musicians are so hardworking. We are so perfectionist. We have those perfectionist tendencies. We are often so hard on ourselves and we do it because we think this is what is going to get us to where we want to go. And that's what's going to get us to our goal. And I think to learn that, to extend compassion to ourselves, which can look like something as simple as saying, I'm doing the best I can right now, and I will continue to grow. But the I'm doing the best I can right now

Starting point is 00:33:49 is something that we often don't offer ourselves. It's mostly, I can't believe I'm still messing up that passage. I've got to get this in tune right now. There's so much pressure that we put. So I think that book and her work on mindful self-compassion is a really valuable tool for any of us, and especially for all of us who are musicians in such a highly competitive field. I'm so glad you recommend that because that's a book that profoundly impacted my work in self-compassion being a superpower. And it's a big part of the mind over finger philosophy. I see this as excellence, whatever excellence means to each individual should be rooted in self-alignment and self-respect. And self-compassion is a mindset that is at the core of the deep practice model and everything I teach. So thank you so much for bringing this up. That's wonderful. And this is why the work that you're doing is so incredibly important. And it's in a way radical, right? It is so different from the way so many of us were raised to approach work, to approach excellence, to even define excellence, as you said. And I think that there's so much richness in this, and it's deeply, deeply needed. Finally, how about a quick actionable tip that the listeners could implement today in their musical lives? Well, since I already said to record yourself, um, that I guess I'll give you two, I'll give you a practical one in the practice room and then more of a, of a thinking one. But the one

Starting point is 00:35:26 of the practice room I would say is to set a timer is and put your phone on, do not disturb. I'm going to give you so many quick tips, set a timer, put your phone on, do not disturb and really, you know, do both do the deep focused work for a specific period of time. and then make yourself take that rest, make yourself take that break, do whatever that is for you that helps you then get back into the saddle, back into the focused work again, feeling refreshed. So I find that that's an incredibly important tool. If we step away from the practice room and think more globally, I would say one of the best tools that I use with my clients who are struggling to stay true to themselves is to ask them whose voice is that

Starting point is 00:36:18 when they are hearing rules, judgment, comparisons that they're making in their own minds. I say, whose voice is that? And then the follow-up question is, is that really true? And if not, might there be a more true story I can tell myself? And I find that that just helps us break that habit of some of those cyclical thoughts that often stand in our way when we're really striving and trying to grow. So those cyclical thoughts like, I will never be able to do this because, or they are so much better than me because, or this thing is never going to work out because. And if you can stop and say, whose voice is that? Where did I hear that? Why am am I speaking to myself that way? And then is it true? And if not, what might be a more true

Starting point is 00:37:05 question? So beautifully put. Elizabeth, your work is so wonderful. I have so much admiration for everything that you offer in terms of support and insight to our community. Where can people find you? I know that you also have a wonderful program on tenure. You have a great TED Talk out there give us all of the information about maybe the program how you support musicians where to find you all of it happy to I am on social media I am I am Elizabeth Rowe is how you can find me so on Instagram and on Facebook you can find me at I am Elizabeth Rowe my website is I am Elizabeth Rowe.com I also run a program as you mentioned that's beginning again in January called Your Tenure Team, where I support a small group of professional musicians as they navigate the

Starting point is 00:38:03 tenure process. And beyond that, to think about really developing the tools to thrive on the job. So again, looking beyond the tenure process, really talking about some of these things we were talking about today, about how we can be our happiest selves on the job. So that program starts in January. You can learn about that at yourtenureteam.com. And that's it. And I'm going to have all these links in the show notes. Elizabeth, what you shared with us today was deeply important and I appreciate it. And I appreciate you. Thank you so much for being here. Oh, thank you. I've been such a fan of you and of this podcast for such a long time. And I learn something every time I talk to you. And it's just a joy to collaborate with you in this way and

Starting point is 00:38:54 also to share, I think, this common commitment to making our industry and those of us who are in it more resilient, more compassionate to ourselves, to others, more mindful. And I'm so grateful to you that you are doing this work. It's just incredibly needed. Thank you. Thank you guys so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Elizabeth Rowe. Elizabeth has fueled me with so many ideas, and I'll be discussing this in the Mind Over Finger Facebook community on Friday, December 10 at 10 a.m. Central.

Starting point is 00:39:41 I hope you join me for a discussion on those topics that Elizabeth covered and ask me any question you have about practicing, performing, or creating a meaningful musical experience. You can find the community at facebook.com slash groups slash mindoverfinger. If you relate to this conversation, share with everyone you think could benefit from Elizabeth's wisdom and let her and I know by getting in touch with us and let's keep this discussion going. I'm mindoverfinger on both Instagram and Facebook, and she is I am Elizabeth Rowe. Don't forget that Practicing for Peak Performance, my life-changing workshop, is now available for download at mindoverfinger.com. It's a process that works and that will allow you to enjoy efficient practice sessions, to gain confidence, and to perform at your very best.

Starting point is 00:40:41 So check out Practicing for Peak Performance at mindoverfinger.com. As always, I have all the information related to this episode in the show notes. You can find them via your podcast app or by visiting mindoverfinger.com. While there, you can also find more information about mindful and efficient practice, performance preparation, how to work with me, and receive your free guide to a productive mindful practice using the metronome by signing up for my newsletter. So that's it for today. Again, thank you and à bientôt.

The Mind Over Finger Podcast - 113 Elizabeth Rowe: Shaping the Future

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