The Mind Over Finger Podcast - 114 Jennifer Montone: Finding Your Voice

Starting point is 00:00:00 You're listening to the Mind Over Finger Podcast, episode number 114. Welcome to the Mind Over Finger Podcast, discussions on mindful music making, efficient practice, and building a purposeful career. And now, your host, violinist, teacher, and high performance coach for musicians, Dr. Renée Paul Gaultier. Hi everyone, I hope your day is going amazingly well and I have a great conversation in store for you. In this episode, I speak with the incredibly inspiring Jennifer Montone. Jennifer is a Grammy Award winner and has been hailed by the New York Times for her

Starting point is 00:00:51 flawless horn solos and warm and noble sound. As principal horn of the Philadelphia Orchestra and a world-acclaimed soloist, chamber musician, and teacher. She's been on the faculty at the Curtis Institute of Music and the Juilliard School since joining the orchestra in 2006. Previously the principal horn of the St. Louis Symphony and associate principal horn of the Dallas Symphony, Jennifer was an adjunct professor at Southern Methodist University, performer faculty at the Aspen Music Festival and School,

Starting point is 00:01:24 and coaches on occasion at the New World Symphony. She was third horn of the New Jersey Symphony from 1997 to 2000 and has performed as a guest artist with the Berlin Philharmonic, the Cleveland Orchestra, the Metropolitan Opera Orchestra, the St. Paul Chamber Orchestra, the Orpheus Chamber Orchestra, and the New York Philharmonic. Jennifer regularly performs as a soloist with orchestras such as the Philadelphia Orchestra, the St. Louis, Dallas, and National Symphony, the Polish National Radio Symphony, and the Warsaw National Philharmonic, among others. She's an active recording artist with several albums under her belt, and she performs as a chamber musician in festivals and on stages across the world. In May 2006, Jennifer was awarded the prestigious Avery Fisher Career Grant, and she's also the winner of the 1996 Paxman Young Horn Player of the Year Award in London, England. Jennifer shares fantastic insight in our conversation, including the importance of high quality music education, how going to concerts helped her develop her artistry as a student and future professional, and how she prepared to go listen to these concerts. Her life as principal horn of the Philadelphia Orchestra How she prepares for performances and conditions herself to enter flow state

Starting point is 00:02:49 How she handles her busy and varied schedule by planning ahead of time What surprised her about life as a professional musician And so much more This is an information and inspiration-packed conversation I know you're going to love Jennifer's wisdom and take home so many great tips and so much insight. Let's go to the show. Jennifer Montone, it's a true honor to have you on the show today. Oh, thank you so much. I'm really thrilled to be here.

Starting point is 00:03:30 As I shared it in the introduction, you're evolving at the highest levels on so many aspects of a musical career as principal horn player with the Philadelphia Orchestra, as a soloist and chamber musician with the best ensembles and on the best stages across the world, as a teacher at Curtis and Juilliard, and you're also a mom. So that's quite a busy, inspiring life, and I'm so excited to share your wisdom with the listeners today. Thank you. And before we dive in and get to all the fun details, can you please share with us how your artistic path has unfolded? Well, first off, thank you. I feel very grateful for sort of how my life is. I grew up in Northern Virginia and I find that early education is so incredibly important. And it's something you can't control. And that's, you know, a real shame and problematic in our field and something we're all kind of looking at. And so to grow up in a, you know, middle class suburb and have access to great schools with great musical education is not

Starting point is 00:04:46 not a given and not an easy thing to replicate. So I think I feel especially grateful for that. I ended up in a fellowship program I auditioned for that the National Symphony in Washington, D.C. runs, which is a pretty amazing program that I hope other orchestras start doing where you get to have free lessons with one of the members of the orchestra and you can go to their rehearsals and even get out of school for it, which was fun. and audition to play with them on occasion and do sort of recitals in the lobby before the concerts, things like that. So it was a very special opportunity. And I studied with Edwin Thayer, who is the principal horn there. And he would give me a copy of his part before the rehearsals that I would sit in on. And I would just sit there like looking at his part with his markings and just watch what he did. And it's something I always try to encourage my students to do is like, you know like get it off IMSLP if you don't want to bug me for it but like try to bring some music

Starting point is 00:05:51 to it or know the part before you come to a concert really try to sort of see yourself on the stage and imagine the decisions you would make and see the decisions that are being made and kind of connect it to your own life really but anyway I think I had very early great guidance in terms of that and then I went to Juilliard and similarly my teacher Julie Lansman would suggest to me when I started taking auditions, she was like, well, these are the orchestras you're auditioning for. Go to Carnegie, go to everything that Philharmonic does, go to absolutely, you know, every orchestra that can come through and see all the ways to skin the cat, you know, which is a terrible expression as I sit next to my cat, but basically all the different ways that

Starting point is 00:06:35 people do this really well. And then you can figure out kind of what, what kind of a player you want to be, what kind of a, you know, principal horn you want and how you want to play those solos and how you want to, you know, kind of share your voice. And so I feel really lucky that a lot of my education had to do with sort of reaching out for guidance and inspiration and then bringing it back to yourself and mixing it with your own kind of musical desires and goals and ambitions for yourself so and then I ended up in a couple orchestras after that so and Jersey Symphony and then Dallas and then St. Louis and then Philly so yeah you shared a couple things that is so important for all of us to hear first of all I totally agree with you about the early

Starting point is 00:07:23 education and how if it's possible for us in any way to help the younger musicians today have access to better education. I think that it's so important to contribute back. And you've said it, I feel like music education in the school right now is being cut and we are seeing the effects of that. So I think that a call to action is in order. Well, and I mean, the interesting thing is that as music in the schools is less common, what is more common is the internet usage and the creativity of our field on the internet. Like, I mean, look at your podcast, for example, and, you know, and all the great things that it can do. And then also kind of the creativity that has come out of COVID and with everyone sort of presenting educational and performance things

Starting point is 00:08:13 online, I think we could do a great deal in, in terms of that. So I think it's sort of, I think it's an exciting time. And now that we all sort of see that there's a problem there and we you know like i think we can do more and i think we will continue to do more so yeah but i'm excited to see what what we as a field can do to equal it out and make it more fair and more universal and more available and accessible and beautifully hearted you know from on every level in which we exist on absolutely yes the other thing you said which is so helpful for anyone out there is this idea of preparing before you go to a concert to get that score and get familiar with it and what you mentioned about getting ideas ahead of time and see how the playing that

Starting point is 00:09:06 you're hearing the performance is similar or is different from your own perspective it's so important and so interesting yeah well I think it's exciting on at any age and at any level of our development, just the psychological reality of how we're built, which is that when we have an inspiration and we have ideas, our body can often do the things much quicker and much easier and without as much stress. So things like playing along with a recording or going to a concert and then playing the solos from the piece that you just, or the common excerpts from the piece that you just heard right afterwards kind of going off of that that feel that exhilaration that vibe that you know everything that's just in your ear and in your body in terms of excitement and feelings

Starting point is 00:09:58 from that piece that performance you just witnessed like you can you can capitalize on your experiences much more that way and a lot of orchestras now have these student ticket you know packs like we have a thing you can buy for you know 25 or 30 bucks and you can come to any concert of the entire season if you're a student. So things like that. But yeah, I think if you are prepared and you know kind of what you're listening for and then you go and you hear it and then you post, like do something post the concert, which also sort of helps seal it into your mind, then you've really utilized your evening very, very well. And it's an exciting way to kind of practice in a different way that's more inspiring based and more concept based

Starting point is 00:10:42 rather than sort of nitpicking the details of your own perceived flaws. Really well put. Thank you for that. Jennifer, in November, we talked about audition preparation. That's a topic that a lot of people talk about. And in this month, in December, I'd love to talk about the life, once you've made it, in the orchestra. Can you talk to us a little bit about what that looks like for you? Sure. And I mean, the most fascinating thing for me in the past 20 years, I guess, since I got in this field is how similar it is emotionally and realistically

Starting point is 00:11:18 and scheduling wise as it was when I was in school. So I thought somehow that maybe once you make it, you all of a sudden feel golden and perfect and awesome about yourself all the time. And you're just like, man, I'm good. And I'm just going to keep on being good and whatever. And it's like no not at all like if anything I'm more neurotic and more concerned and more striving than I ever was it's sort of the more you know the more you want to be better um so I find that funny and sad but that's fine I think it's great it's like it's what makes us lifelong learners and kind of it makes you want to be in the field and actually like play that Beethoven 7 again because you want to do it better than you did last time or different or like hear from a different

Starting point is 00:12:04 conductor about like how they think it should be or their new ideas based off of what's going on in the world i mean that's another thing that's interesting now there's so much emotionally uh crazy about our world right now especially you know perhaps uh in in certain countries and so it's like we just uh like as living breathing artists we're taking these works of art that are old and new and then we're filtering or filtering them through our own experience and making them our own and that's maybe the most gratifying thing about our you know our field and what we can do when we're in the profession is that you know it's like you can be in any orchestra in any chamber situation in any freelance world and you can put your personal stamp on it and you can decide

Starting point is 00:12:53 what's important to you like what part of the field do you want to prioritize in your life today, this week, this year, you know, and it can change over time. And I think that's another beautiful thing is that you don't, like in school, you maybe think, oh, I'm going to be an orchestral player, but you don't always have to be that. You could be that first and then you could go do other things. You know, it's like, you can be a teacher, you can be a chamber music, you know, it's like, you can do all the things and you can do them in whatever order you want, in whatever place you want to whatever amount you want. And you are an artist just by definition of your playing and choosing to give that part of yourself. So I guess I've been reassured by our field by being in the

Starting point is 00:13:36 professional part of it on a couple of question marks I had when I was a student, which was sort of like, oh, am I going to make it? Am I going to be good enough? And it's like, well, good enough is what's coming out of your bell or whatever and you know your axe and you know good enough is not for anyone else to decide but you and generally we're pretty perfectionistic and very desiring of greatness as a collective so like you're gonna strive and you're always gonna think you're not good enough but you always are good enough because you're just creating so it's sort of it's it's a beautiful both. Yes. And worrying that we're not good enough actually affects our playing negatively. Of course. Yeah. As everything does. Yeah. Yeah. It's a worry. Worry does have a very

Starting point is 00:14:26 strong corollary to all of the things that make it harder to actually be a passionate, creative artist. Because I think the creative juices come when we're feeling free and we're feeling safe and we're feeling sort of inspired. And anytime you're feeling pressure or nerves or freaking out or like things don't feel right physically on yourself, whether you're tired or your chops don't feel great or, you know, whatever you it's, it's, or you're feeling a lot of pressure because of the situation being nerve wracking, et cetera, et cetera. You it's, it's hard to get those free, open, creative juices flowing. And it's hard to stay in this open, courageous, send it out there mindset. And I think both of those are sort of the sweet spots

Starting point is 00:15:21 for us. So it's like, it's very much a game trying to get yourself to where you feel like your sweet spot is either for consistency, just so that you can always be pretty proud of what you're putting out there. And also then for these optimal, amazing performances that are special that we all want to have now and again in our lives. In the system that I use with my students and my clients, the deep practice model, I use mindsets. And I think I'm going to add a fourth one, the courageous, send it out there mindset. I love that. It's a fun one when you can get there. It's like, it just, it's cause it's the exhilarating, like the visceral, the physical, like ha like the high when it's amazing if you can get on a high in a concert and just be like

Starting point is 00:16:05 just riding a wave and a lot of it has to do with the energy around you but you can give and receive that energy yes and so it's a really great thing if you can even just have your your spidey sense unblocked enough so that you can send it out receive it back utilize it and put it forth it just makes for a great energy in the room and that certainly you know it's like sort of like a blind date. It's like when you're clicking and everybody's feeling a buzz, it's like you don't care if the person has a little something between their teeth or says the word like too much. You're like, okay, you're awesome. I'm going with it. It's great. Yeah. What are some of the ways that you get into this mindset? I think there's a million ways and I find myself flip-flopping

Starting point is 00:16:52 between them. It reminds me of when my, um, my first son was born, I found on the internet, and this is very telling about me and my neurosis. I found on the internet, a great list of like a hundred things to do to, to try when your baby is crying. And I was like, this is so reassuring because it's like, even if number 47 doesn't work, number 89 is Gary, you know, something's going to work. Right. And it changes every time. And it depends on where they're at and what's happening. Same I feel with my mind to body connection when I'm playing. And there's all these reasons why and maybe it's helpful to analyze them. Sometimes it is sometimes it's easier just to try a method. But I love that there are books out there. I love that there

Starting point is 00:17:39 are websites like, like, I love the Don Green books, I have a bunch of books on my website, which is genmanto.com that you can try as a sort of starter and then I think there's a million more out there um and then I love that there's websites like the bulletproof musician or the fearless musician and all of these podcasts and things I think there's information abounding and I think if you're generally on a rotating you know sort of input of things like that like all topics relating to fearless, courageous, beautifully hearted performance, then you're just feeding your soul this constant routine of like, this is important too. And these are ideas that are just starting, they just start to float around in your mind. And then you naturally do

Starting point is 00:18:28 them like you've just been marinating yourself, you know, in these steeping yourself in these ideas, and therefore they come to you naturally when you need them. And then you don't have to sort of employ them as a, you know, as a purposeful thing, you're just like, Oh, I'm just going to get into the flow and look at the back of the head of the person who's playing the tune right in front of me. And then I'm just going to hop on the moving train and take that line from them. And then I'm going to phrase right over, you know, along with the baseline, because they're going to, you know, do XYZ. And now I'll subdivide and I'll, you know, get myself in the, you know, in the physical mindset. And here, I'm going to take a couple of deep breaths and close my eyes

Starting point is 00:19:05 and imagine a, you know, a concentration ring of fire and then, you know, kind of gather all of my mental faculties together, feel the energy coming up and like zoom it out of my eyes in a concentrated way. And then I'm focused and I'm ready to nail that passage. Right. So there's like all these things, but they're just kind of floating around in my brain of things to try. So I do also quite a lot of little meditations from apps and just, you know, websites, like when I play somewhere and I'm scared, uh, I'll just, I'll feel my body getting tense. I'll feel it feeling fluttery. And I've worked with some specialists, um, relating to like, uh, one is called Rubenfeld synergy and also, um, uh, like Alexander technique, of course. And, um, uh, Rolfing

Starting point is 00:19:53 specialists sometimes recommend these things. Um, I think Feldenkrais also, they'll talk about, basically like getting in tune with your body and what it's telling you and honoring it enough to actually listen to it. And I realized not too long ago, sadly, that I yell at my body a lot. I just, I expect it to do things. I get mad at it when it freaks out and doesn't do things. And then I'm blaming it all the time. And I'm never really listening to it, asking questions, asking it what I can do for it. You know? And so I think a lot of the tools that I've been taught to employ I was employing without a kind of a grateful appreciative heart towards my own self and it's like our body and our mind and our hearts are working together to create beauty in art and

Starting point is 00:20:41 like it's doing a big job like they're all all forces are working together in kind of a magical way so like it's good to give it a second to like think about like what do I need what do I feel what do I think I need what do I know that I can do and meditation might be good yoga might be good reading something or you know listening to an inspirational something might be good maybe I need to practice maybe I'm feeling really unprepared and I need to cram you know maybe I need to listen to a beautiful you know recording of the same piece or something like for me listening to singers always makes me feel more vocal and it's like oh yeah that makes sense you You know, it's like, so, you know, maybe a comedy skit would loosen me right up.

Starting point is 00:21:25 Like just kind of self-awareness and kind of self-honoring is a constant growing, you know, aspect of my life. And yeah, I find it like once you figure out what kind of things work for you, then you can decide when and how to employ those things. That's so important to hear because I feel that oftentimes, and I do the same thing too, we want the perfect recipe. We want exact measurements and exact list of actions to do that will lead for sure to a flow state or a state of comfort.

Starting point is 00:22:03 And what you're saying, and you're talking about having this self-awareness, I love what you said about self-honoring and then trying things, having this flexibility, this fluidity of exploration and of paying attention to how we are right now in this moment and giving ourselves this permission to experiment and try something that could help. So important to hear. Yeah, thank you. And actually on a practical level, there's a couple of things that occur to me that I do regularly. One of which is that when I'm preparing for something that I anticipate being nervous for or extra, you know, something that feels extra important and not in my day to day, whatever, I will put more musical instructions in there. And I will, you know, I will design in

Starting point is 00:22:56 my mind kind of a mental preparation for right before it. So this would be for like excerpts in an audition, or a big solo that I know hits a weak spot of mine, technically, I will, you know, kind of make sure that I have a really clear idea of the piece, what my role is at that moment, what the stuff is leading up to it, what's going on underneath it, what I'm sending it off to. And we'll make sure that I have like adjectives written on top of the page. I'll have the instruments involved written on the page, you know, and descriptors as to what I want and what, like you said flow state what you know what kind of mental and physical place i want to be in for it and for me then if you practically if you actually physicalize those things like for a

Starting point is 00:23:45 horn anyway like breath and time like breathing and blowing and rhythm are the two most stabilizing forces and then there's so they're kind of like pillars underneath a beautiful beach house and when the waves come like the stronger your pillars the safer your beach house and the you know the roof on top is maybe your mental focus and intention so like you know if you are anticipating a storm if you make sure that the air that you're using and the say the rhythm are very much related to the musical ideals you want so a lyrical thing would be a smoother everything uh you know a more you know noble thing would be a more you know relentless rhythm underneath and more send off of air so a faster breath of a you know more of a whoosh of an exhale so that um so that all

Starting point is 00:24:36 physically makes sense lightness the same thing a bouncy you know a bouncy thing with you know light fast air bouncy articulation bouncy you know rhythmic you know state subdivisions and things so basically kind of making sure that your musical ideals and your technical pillars foundations, um, are related to each other enough so that they, um, so that they stick and they stay and they integrate. I feel that that makes me feel much more calm and more like I've sealed out any potential, you know, like question marks. So, uh, you know, basically like I'll, I'll, I'll dig deeper and build a better foundation for anything that feels potentially very scary. And then if, um, you know, if then a situation takes me by surprise, I think that's where I, you know,

Starting point is 00:25:26 in the moment might use more of those, like, ah, like I wasn't anticipating feeling scared. Like, um, I had a funny one with, um, Berkner four once where for some reason I was feeling more calm before we got there than I was when I got on stage and I started to freak out and I was like, okay, I don't know what to do. I have to start this thing. And everything that was going through my head was like i'm gonna die i gotta go i gotta leave i gotta run i'm gonna die it was like well that's not helpful it's like okay come up with something better than that so i was like well i was like vamping it in my head this thing and i was like all right then vamp and so then just like while everybody warmed up i just like started subdividing like you know just started getting

Starting point is 00:26:08 myself into that loop and i went with breathing inhale and exhale and then i subdivided inside of it. And then when I felt sort of like I was on a calm and a floop, I started doing some humming and, and nose breathing of it, which actually gets your, your vagus nerve a little calmer. I think I'm sure speaking your language here helps me for like getting my neurological system more calm. And so I like nose breathing and hummed that vamp for a little while. And then I started thinking about like, you know, an image for it. And there had been a conductor that gave me an image of like you know a scene opening up on an opera stage where there's you know these houses in a village and you are the hark good morning call and then you know like then when the other

Starting point is 00:26:56 instruments come in then you've got uh like windows lighting up and other people start joining the conversation and then the whole you know world opens up in the morning and then you're all collected during that crescendo to the you know to to what goes on next so it was like it was a really nice combination of like physical and technical and then some imagery and then by the time we got going and by I did that through the tuning note and everything and the standing up I was still vamping in my head and then by the time I had to play it was like everything felt more sealed in and I felt more safe so you can kind of you can make up a like a you know on the moment thing for yourself a little bit of a blueprint and you can also have a cheerleader

Starting point is 00:27:41 in your head like i had a teacher when i was in high school eric rask who was great at like just yelling over you as you were playing and he would be like now take a big breath great now soft attack great now you're gonna phrase to your good and then go a little longer as you go towards the top of the climax yeah that's the way awesome now over the top soar yes and then you know it was like and it was so invigorating because you're like you're in the moment and he's just keeping you in the moment a thousand percent. So I sometimes use some of those tactics as well. This is gold information, what you just gave us. And I really hope that the listeners notice that you really leave no stone unturned or you've skinned the cat in every way that you can think

Starting point is 00:28:25 of. Because I think that the misconception is sometimes, you know, musicians are well established such as yourself. They walk in practice rooms and they practice their instrument they play they play they play and a lot of people don't realize the amount of data gathering that goes into preparing a piece of work and all of those things that you mentioned and who are you playing with and you know what your place is and the score all of the these things that you shared earlier is how can you know more and have so much more information about the piece that you're playing and not just walk in the room and play endlessly and mindlessly until you think you're going to get it with all the wishful thinking. Yeah, I do find that obviously I'm least nervous

Starting point is 00:29:18 when I'm very prepared, you know, just technically on something. And I especially found when I was getting into the field before I had played all the major repertoire a number of times, i found the most helpful sort of process to be what you do before the first rehearsal for something um like say if you get called for a really cool gig and you're like ah you know it's like of course we all know how to practice by the time you get into that but kind of how you prepare uh on learning the piece and kind of how you try to understand like a composer and what they what they might have intended in their piece you know and things like the history of russia around the time of Shostakovich or sort of how, you know, like the French composers are so

Starting point is 00:30:06 impressionistic and how it's kind of like, you know, sort of like paintbrush strokes. And so our crescendos can be more wooshy and more, you know, more immediate diminuendos and stay in sort of a floaty state longer, you know, things like that, like things that you get through music history and everything to kind of double down on that when you're preparing for a big week, you know or even just like beethoven and tchaikovsky being rhythmic composers so when we have repeated notes you don't want to just be like that that that that that that you know it's like you're you're under some tune so go ahead and phrase with that like that kind of thing um sort of connecting your education of you know all of your music education to what

Starting point is 00:30:46 you're actually practicing so i guess what i'm advocating is like when you do get a cool gig Like definitely don't only practice the solos, but really spend some time figuring out what the what all of your accompanimental moments mean. When are you a rhythmic function? When are you a baseline function? When are you a chordal function? You want to be really fancy. What are you in the chord and which way should it go? You know, just like going really deep into all of the analysis of stuff.

Starting point is 00:31:14 And if you want to listen to some recordings with a score and write down a whole bunch of stuff, that's really good. like for horns, if we have a eight horn piece, like you need to know if you're leading one and two versus when you're leading one, three, five, and seven versus when you're leading all eight of you versus when nobody else has their horn up and it's just you. And you're like, Oh shoot, is this right? I must've counted wrong. And then you've missed some really cool thing that you thought were multiple people. So things like that, that you can, um, you know, basically you can preempt a lot of like oopses by doing your research very fully in terms of the pieces and then definitely if you play with a couple different recordings as long as it's in the

Starting point is 00:31:59 country that you are playing in like don't listen don't play along with european recordings if you're in america because your pitch will be all wackadoodle but besides that like but if you listen to a couple different if you play along with a couple different recordings of mauler you'll get a good sense of all the ebb and flow that happens and all the transitions will feel more like intuitive to you and both you'll feel more confident. And also you will sound more, um, more professional, more, um, like sort of like a great colleague that you're, you know, the people around you will be like, Oh, they, they fit right in. That was awesome. You know? So it's a really good way to sort of ingratiate yourself to your older colleagues when you're

Starting point is 00:32:42 a young professional to kind of have this sort of, it's a way to bulk up institutional knowledge without actually, of course, having done it yet. But it works quite well. This is so amazing. Thank you so much for this. Jennifer, one question I get a lot from musicians is what does it look like the practice routine when you have a position like yours with the Philadelphia Orchestra and you play chamber music and you teach um so so people get really specific like how how much does one practice how often how do you balance family travel all of this in your life what what does that look like for you sure well i'm sure it's exactly the same for you too um i think it looks like a well-maintained google calendar oh yes exactly no and planning out stuff is really

Starting point is 00:33:37 important. Um, yeah, well, so to that topic, I think when I, when I look at a whole orchestra season, I'll find the things it's sort of like I did with auditions where, um, I had a coach, I think it might've been Don Green who suggested like putting a number, like a three, a two or a one. One are the things that you naturally do quite well. Thank you very much. You just need to make sure you're good to go on them. Two is like, I need to practice quite a bit. Three is like, Ooh, there's a lot there. I might need to work on my whole loud playing in order to play this one. Well, like I might, you know, it's a whole topic that maybe I'm not as great at. Let me put some real time in. And I think it's the same with me for, um, balancing my life. If I

Starting point is 00:34:18 look at a season and I've got, you know, XYZ projects and, you know, or a summer and there's chamber music and there's orchestra and there's teaching. And I know I'll be swamped all week for this particular teaching project, but I have a chamber thing the next week on a piece that I don't know. And, you know, you need to kind of know the score even better for chamber music than you do for orchestra, all of that. So I'll sort of see if I can get together in my mind, at least like, you know, how long do I think this is going to take for me to learn this? And in what way do I need to start learning it? And a lot of times it's starting by listening to recordings and kind of getting it in my ear and then looking at, you know, what the big parts of it are. And I piecemeal

Starting point is 00:35:05 a ton of my practicing as I think everybody does. And I did this in school too. It was like, you know, I'd get to an orchestra rehearsal a couple minutes early and I, you know, take the time at break. And instead of, you know, like hanging out, I would maybe woodshed something if my lesson was the next day and I wasn't as prepared as I needed to be. And I'd stay, you know, I'd like ask my, you know, tech, I guess I didn't text, but I would ask my mom, like, can you pick me up like 25 minutes late? Cause I really need to practice. And you know, by the time I get home, I'm not going to want to, she was like, sure. So I would just like sit there and like woodshed stuff and, you know, kind of cram. And it's like, it's every moment is found. And

Starting point is 00:35:42 as long as you're focused enough, mostly you can basically get some work done. And in that way, you sort of, um, I think it's, it's all about the focused practicing. Obviously everybody kind of knows that, but, um, it's basically all about the balance of what your goal is for any practice session. And if that goal can be decently clear, it's like, okay, so for this, I need to warm up and get myself, my body in a good place. Okay. For this, I need to work on my fundamentals. This, I need to prepare this for this event. Um, but if you give yourself goals and then you have tools of how you would shed it down, then that'll be a combination probably of, you know, running something uh maybe recording it and getting and listening back to give your own feedback for it

Starting point is 00:36:28 and then some of it is woodshed and practice it slow and practice it slurred and practice it on the mouthpiece and practice it with articulations and practice it you know like loud instead of soft and you know with different intervals you know that are that are easier to get to and you know do you do it in arpeggios do it on the natural horn there's a million practice techniques that we all learn so you kind of have that stuff and you try to balance that so you don't feel like you're gonna kill yourself or throw your you know instrument at the wall and then you do kind of something more musical like where you're building a story and thinking of an image and you know kind of a little bit more of like doing some structure uh you know ideas about like oh well this is you

Starting point is 00:37:11 know this is the first phrase this is a short short you know short section short section long section phrase. So I'm going to do this one with this phrasing, then this one with a little bit more. So, and then the long one, I'm going to do a big crescendo and then take some time at the top. And, you know, it's like, you just kind of plan stuff out. So basically I think if you, if you change up your practicing enough, then you're being quite efficient about it. Then the amount of practicing obviously is going to be variable depending on how much time you've got. But, but yeah, I would advocate for sort of the planning ahead if you can, in terms of that, and um and then yeah like take all the good breaks that you need when you're practicing so that your

Starting point is 00:37:51 mind is actually there um for me i'd say for brass players and maybe wind players like if you're feeling tight in the morning don't push it and do all the crazy you know like fancy warm-ups like do really easy stuff and do some stretching and do some yoga and do some breathing exercises and get your body in a good spot because we waste a lot of time you know kind of pushing against a wall and then yelling at ourselves for like, why can't I play that high note? And it's like, well, because your body feels awful and you're not making it any better by like continuing to do it and then yelling at yourself in between.

Starting point is 00:38:23 It's like, maybe I'll do that in a couple hours. Right now I'm going to do some stretching and breathing. I'll get my low, soft, flexible stuff going. And then, you know, when my body's ready for it, I will like do the correct breathing and the correct sustaining and the subdividing and everything that I need to actually, you know healthily do that high work so kind of knowing knowing what your body's telling you and practicing to what your mind and body can most effectively do it's kind of a little bit of an

Starting point is 00:38:53 offshoot of like there's a time and a place for everything so as long as you keep track of it all you'll you'll work on everything you just need to choose when is the best time to work on what yeah planning and paying attention that's really great yeah and if you're fried like don't do anything too technical, just like play through something and get the feel, you know, and if you're feeling, you know, like uninspired, listen to something, get inspired and play like a piece from a different instrument or something, you know, like music is music and follow your own, you know, your own needs and your own instincts as to what's going to be the most effective and efficient way for you to just continue to better yourself. I love that. Is there anything about

Starting point is 00:39:35 the orchestra life that you found surprising that's different than what you expected as a youngster oh yeah I guess I love that the orchestra life is very similar to like what I found in like school band and youth orchestra and everything like that it's like it is a family and it's this generally quite sweet family and I guess I found very much that like the relationships that you cultivate and treasure or become the ones you treasure you know so basically like you can you can treat it like a job and you're it's like you come you do your work and you're out but it's so much more rewarding and especially musically rewarding if you you know it's like ask the person next to you like about their kids or their vacation or their you know it's like

Starting point is 00:40:28 like just kind of get to know each other spend some time together be respectful like be kind of encouraging and you'll get that back and then when you do play I find it a miracle how that works with nerves because like if I can look around and I I just know all about these people on stage with me they don't scare me then it's like because they're my friends and I know all about what they're going through and it's like it helps you remember like it's not all about you you're not gonna you know it's like they're not sitting there judging you waiting for you to make a mistake you know it's like even when you're in an uncertain circumstance like I just played last week with another orchestra and it was great because like I don't I didn't know most of them

Starting point is 00:41:13 but it's like I I kind of capitalized on the ones that I did know and I spent a lot of time kind of getting energy from them and they were colleagues from chamber music situations and I was like oh it's just like I'm playing chamber music with him which I did last summer you know and it's like okay, so I'm just going to like have this nice conversation that I know I can always have with this player, you know, and then kind of, I extrapolated that that meant that all of the rest of them would be the same and the same spirited and, you know, kind of, we're all there for the common purpose and we're all kind of conversing and building each other up. Um, and then I've had some injuries, uh, over the last, uh, 10 to 15 years. And, um, I've also found it

Starting point is 00:41:58 incredible how supportive our fields can be. So whenever you go through things, which I think we all inevitably do, whether it's physical injury or just an emotional situation when you're in need and you don't feel like you're at your best playing wise, I think I can definitely speak for the fact that in my experience and those of my friends and students, like the community loves and cares about you as a person as much as they do as a player you're not only good for what you bring and what's coming out of your bell that day is not the only thing that's valued it's you as a human you as a player over the course of your career what you give and what you receive personally as well as what how you play and all sort of all things that are bigger than like

Starting point is 00:42:50 oh like I'm just not at my best right now because I just toasted out my back and I just had back surgery or my chops don't feel great or I just you know I'm going through a divorce and I can't practice I'm like I can't get myself to feel motivated to do anything like all of those ups and downs are not only um understood but they're like they're just they're um they're treated as a natural thing. It's like, yeah, you today, me tomorrow. And like, I gotcha. And please get me when it's my turn. Like, please, like, you know, it's much more supportive than I feared it would be. And I think it's a beautiful thing, again, that the internet helps with all, you know, all things sort of supportive. You know, it can be scary on like Facebook about seeing kind of

Starting point is 00:43:37 everyone's best, you know, it's like, yes. Oh, your life must be perfect. Yeah. Right. It's like what we all choose to post is, is a comical thing. But, um, but if you dig a little deeper than that, and I think enough of us are trying to like, talk about it and it's like, you got an injury, please call me. If you've got nerves that are, you know, really getting in your way, like, please reach out. Like, I feel like a lot of us have gone through all of it and are still going through a lot of it and just like happy to help and we're all a community and we can all help each other so um but yeah anyway all of that has been very heartening to me in my career and especially in the last little bit of it so yeah that's a beautiful message thank you yeah jennifer

Starting point is 00:44:21 i could talk with you all day and i hope one day i have a chance to do this in person but how about a round of rapid fire question before i let you go sure thank you what's a habit that you have that you think contributed to your success stubbornness obstinance that's a great one what doubts or resistance internal or external have you had to face on this journey um i'd say the worry about um not being good enough and what people think of me i think that a lot of people could relate to that for sure yeah what skills do you think young musicians studying today should acquire in addition to learning to play their instruments i'd say mental focus is probably the main one

Starting point is 00:45:07 i i get behind that for sure yeah i think nerves and mental focus are very related do you have a favorite tool in the practice room yeah i love um singing and then buzzing on your mouthpiece and then playing i know a lot of people can't do the buzzing but singing and then playing or singing and then some variation maybe it'd be all slurred or all slow or something singing and then some physical um version that's not the exact normal way it's played and then do the normal way it's played i love that what is a piece of advice that was given to you that you would like to pass on to the listeners Oh, I guess a piece of advice from one of my mentors, Sylvia Alamina, just that whatever you bring to the table musically and as a player, there is somewhere that that is going to be exactly what they want.

Starting point is 00:46:07 And so don't worry if the places that you put it out there, if it's not just the right fit, it's just you haven't found your right fit yet. but there will be people out there who want exactly what you're giving you just have to keep on looking until you find it yeah that's an excellent piece of advice and finally how about a quick actionable tip that the listeners can implement today in their musical lives okay um i'd love to do a particular um focus technique that i love it's originally from don green and um And it's basically, I call it the hula hoop meditation. It's taken out of a longer meditation that he does. But I do this before every excerpt in an audition and every solo on stage. A little goofy, sorry. But so you imagine you're hula hooping and actually wiggle your hips. Now the

Starting point is 00:47:03 hula hoop turns into a ring of fire. Then it becomes smaller and smaller until it goes right around your waist like a belt and it zaps inside your body. Once it's inside your body, it becomes a ball of fire, which gets smaller and smaller until it lands at the base of your spine, two inches below your belly button, two inches inside your front. It's a place of chi, where martial artists fight from. It's a place of power, concentration, focus, potential. You can feel that ball of fire

Starting point is 00:47:50 sort of buzzing and humming and vibrating and burning. And then it's going to burn its way up your spine, behind your belly button, behind your lungs, behind your chest, up through your throat. And then it's going to come out your eyes with a fiery concentration and mental focus. Three, two, one, go. and then you do some subdivision you do some breathing you get your idea in your head as to what you want musically and then you play and i find it very very helpful for um kind of getting everything collected i also like a meditation that i learned in a yoga place once that was

Starting point is 00:48:46 a mount fuji meditation where you imagine that you're mount fuji and um and there's lava you know coming out of you and the storms come by and mess up all your trees but you are a gorgeous mountain and you are still there and still strong and you still have lava and you know you could obliterate the entire country if you wanted to so I think I like all things sort of fiery and focused and you know things like that that can help you feel uh feel really strong and capable of great beauty at the same time when you want to play powerful images I love it this is so great thank you Jennifer thank you so much for being with us today where can everyone find you you mentioned your website earlier yeah thank you it's been so much fun chatting thank you so much

Starting point is 00:49:37 for having me I really appreciate it and yeah I'm completely open if anybody ever wants to chat or if I can be of any help to you in any way, mock auditions are a great way to feel confident about things, mock performances. If you ever just need another ear, um, even comments or no comments, like I am here. And so many of us are happy to do that. So anyway, please reach out. I'm going to keep that in mind. Yeah, no, seriously. Cause I, it's so much fun and it's really helpful. Um, but, um, yeah, the, uh, the easiest way is probably through my website. there's an email address or there's a link there that you can email me through that. I'm really bad at responding to emails, but I will get back to you. And the other way is probably through Curtis

Starting point is 00:50:22 or Juilliard. Both of them have an EDU that you can totally reach me at. But anyway, I'm looking forward to meeting you and chatting with you in the small world of ours. Yes, you've shared such important and inspiring insight. And I know that I'm going to walk around for days inspired by our conversation. And I'm sure that the listeners will feel the same way. Thank you. I really appreciate that. That's so kind. Thank you guys so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Jennifer Montone. I feel completely energized by this discussion and my head is buzzing with ideas. And I'll be expanding on those ideas in the Mind Over Finger Facebook community on Friday, December 17th at 10 a.m. Central. So I hope you join me for a discussion

Starting point is 00:51:22 on those topics that Jennifer covered and to ask me any question you have about practicing, performing and creating a meaningful musical experience you can find the community at facebook.com slash groups slash mind over finger if you relate to this conversation don't forget to share with everyone you think could benefit from jennifer's wisdom and let her and i know by getting in touch with us and let's keep this discussion going i mind over finger on both instagram and facebook and she's jennifer montone don't forget that practicing for peak performance my transformative workshop is now available for download at mindoverfinger.com it's a process that works and that will allow you to enjoy efficient practice sessions to gain confidence and to

Starting point is 00:52:16 perform at your very best check out practicing for peak performance at mindoverfinger.com As always, I will have all the information related to this episode in the show notes. You can find them via your podcast app or by visiting mindoverfinger.com. While there, you can find more information about mindful and efficient practice, performance preparation, and how to work with me. And by signing up for my newsletter, you will receive your free guide to a productive mindful practice using the metronome. So that's it for today.

Starting point is 00:52:52 Again, thank you and à bientôt.

The Mind Over Finger Podcast - 114 Jennifer Montone: Finding Your Voice

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