The Mind Over Finger Podcast - 134 Kate Kayaian: Re-Writing the Script

Episode Date: June 17, 2022

A conversation with Kate Kayaian, Career Coach for Musicians, covering the many aspects of a career as a musician and how to create one that you love.   MORE ABOUT KATE KAYAIAN: Creative Leadership Summit Landing Page: https://mailchi.mp/f384f56c6494/summit Website: https://katekayaian.com/ Tales From the Lane Blog: https://talesfromthelane.com/ Gaining Clarity Workbook: https://mailchi.mp/063d908268c1/gainingclarity   THANK YOU: A HUGE thank you to my fantastic producer, Bella Kelly, who works really hard to make this podcast as pleasant to listen to as possible for you. Most sincere thank you to composer Jim Stephenson who graciously provided the show's musical theme.  Concerto #1 for Trumpet and Chamber Orchestra – Movement 2: Allegro con Brio, performed by Jeffrey Work, trumpet, and the Lake Forest Symphony, conducted by Jim Stephenson. Thank you to pianist-singer-song-writer Louise Kelly for the introduction!  You can find out more about Kelly and her creative work by visiting louisekelly.com.    MIND OVER FINGER: Visit MindOverFinger.com for resources on mindful practice and information on how to work with me. Sign up for my newsletter and receive your free guide to a highly productive mindful practice using a metronome. Don't forget to join the Join the Mind Over Finger Community  for access to my live videos and to exchange with a community of like-minded musicians. www.mindoverfinger.com https://www.facebook.com/mindoverfinger/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/mindoverfinger https://www.instagram.com/mindoverfinger/  

You're listening to the Mind Over Finger Podcast, episode number 134. Welcome to the Mind Over Finger Podcast, discussions on mindful music making, efficient practice, and building a purposeful career. And now, your host, violinist, teacher, and high performance coach for musicians, Dr. Renée Paul Gaultier. So hello, everyone. It's so great to be here. Welcome to this special live podcast recording of the Mind Over Finger podcast. I'm live in the Mind Over Finger community with the amazing Kate Kayayan, cellist and career coach for musicians. And this is the first of three

interviews with movers and shakers in the classical music industry. Later this summer, I'm going to be talking with Aubrey Burgauer, who is changing the narrative for the performing arts. I'm also going to talk to Absin Gupta, who's the artistic director of planning at Carnegie Hall. And today I'm with the wonderful Kate Kayayan, who aims to rewrite the scripts for classical musicians and help them create their personalized, their own blueprint that is going to lead them to the career and lifestyle that they want. And I want to hear about all of this and what that can look like for the people here with us today and for all of the podcast listeners in their own lives.

And so I want to welcome you if you're here live with us and encourage you to share in the comments and ask any questions that you have for Kate and let's have some fun. And let's start by hearing all about you, Kate. I think you've listened to the podcast before, so I know you know what I'm going to be asking. So tell us about you and your musical journey and how you got to where you are today. Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you so much, Renee, for having me. Yes, I am a huge fan of the Mind Over Finger podcast. In fact, that's how I know about you. And when I first knew that we were going to be meeting, I was so excited because I was

such a huge fan of the podcast. So this is a real treat to be a guest on it today. And welcome, everybody. Look forward to your questions. Okay, so my story, I guess. I think I started the way most of us start, at least as string players and pianists, you know, I was four and a half and my parents thought it would be a good idea for their kids to learn an instrument. And I chose the cello. Yeah. I mean, they, they just sort of had, had some friends

play the violin, the piano, the cello, and I ended up with the cello. And I was lucky. I grew up just north of Chicago, not too far from you. And I had access to the Music Center of the North Shore, what is now the Music Institute of Chicago. And I just lucked into having access to great teachers and amazing training and opportunities to play chamber music and youth orchestra. And of course, year, the Chicago Symphony, and was surrounded by amazing peers, many of whom have also been guests on your podcast. And from there, I went on to New England Conservatory of Music, where I did my bachelor's and studied with Colin Carr, who was just an incredible teacher. I learned so much about about making music it was beyond just playing the cello and he really wanted to

talk about thinking about music as a whole and he also I think because he you know he went to the Menuhin school he was a prodigy he never even graduated from high school he was he had this and still does have has this unquenchable thirst for knowledge he always wanted to know what classes I was taking and I'd be like ah I just went to some English class no no no tell me about it and that really inspired in me a love of learning and knowing the importance of knowing more than just how to play your instrument um from there I went to the New World Symphony and and I have to say with a lot of these things I just kind of lucked into it um and I was always sort of going against the grain in these decisions I was supposed to have gone to

University of Southern California that's where my teacher students tended to go um and I changed my mind at the last minute and went to New England Conservatory and same with New World I was supposed to do one thing I had my plan for post-graduation and I just was kind of invited to go to New World at the last minute and went with it. And then from there, just the usual summers at Spoleto and Tanglewood and then to Boston and where I started, I guess what you would call a freelance career. Yeah. So I kind of did everything once I was in Boston. I did some chamber music I did some solo things I did a lot of contemporary music I had fallen in love with contemporary music at New World Symphony just the experience of having composers come in and

working with them and recording things I just loved it and so we I joined Boston Modern Orchestra Project played with them a lot Odyssey Opera did a lot of smaller ensembles I taught I ran the chamber music program for the big youth orchestra, Boston Youth Symphony Orchestras. I worked at BUTI. I just sort of did a little bit of everything as we do as freelancers. And then I, I got a very nice job at a prep school outside of Boston, Noble and Greeno School, where I directed the strings. I ran the chamber music program. I taught cello. I conducted an orchestra. I worked in the admissions department it was like I just did it all I just ate it up it was amazing but it really shows how that's what musicians lives are like there's so many hats that we get to wear so many hats so

many hats and eventually you know by the time I was deeply entrenched in in that life I had to make a decision. My fiance lived and worked in Bermuda of all places, which yes, it's a 90 minute flight from Boston. So it was a pretty easy commute, but still I had to make a decision of whether I was going to go there here where I am, spoiler alert, or if he was going to move to Boston. And, you know, I realized that I was working seven days a week. I never had a weekend off, uh, I would come to the school on a Monday and they'd say, Oh, how was your weekend? They would be exhausted just hearing about all the teaching and concerts I did. And I realized that that was not, not only was it not sustainable, but I wasn't doing

things that I'd loved to do. And I realized somebody made a joke about my retirement party and what they would do for my retirement party. And it suddenly dawned on me that if my life didn't change and I was doing the exact same things, I mean, I was playing great concerts. The school was amazing. They let me travel all over and do what I needed to do. They loved that I was a performing cellist. Um, but I knew that if I was still living the same life when I was retiring, I was going to be deeply disappointed in myself and I needed to make a change. So I did. I left and I moved to Bermuda where I kind of reinvented the career again and focused solely on playing chamber music and solo recitals and going on tours around the

States and playing concerts, which was amazing. The most amazing thing was just to have all of these hours free to practice and plan and, and do what I needed to do. Incredible. And then, then, oh my God, you're right. It goes on and on and on. And then the pandemic hit, right. And no more concerts. It canceled a big concert tour that I was doing on the, um, the West coast that I've been planning for months and months and months as we do. And I like like all of us just the work stopped and I had to figure out what to do and I didn't have the answer I didn't know what I was going to do but I suddenly saw that festivals were getting canceled left and right I was thinking a lot about how important festivals

had been to me summer festivals growing up and how important they had been to my development as a young cellist. And, you know, because I had been traveling so much, I had been teachings on zoom for years. I think I've been teaching on between me. I was old school. I started on Skype and then taught on zoom for like five years before the pandemic. And I had also worked at a lot of festivals. I had run a lot of programs. I had worked in admissions at the school. So I felt like I had these, some of them I had dabbled in, some of them I had deep knowledge of, but I felt like I had all of these skills that I could put together. And it made me the perfect person to run the first online festival. And I put together the virtual summer cello festival. I figured we

can't do chamber music or orchestra anyway, so I might as well just focus on cello. And it was incredible. I had these amazing, talented high school and college and grad school cellists come together. I had teachers from all over the world. They wanted something to do, right? And they believed in the mission. And it was a beautiful, beautiful festival, which we did last year. We did it for a second year. And then that led to, they wanted to keep going. And so that led to the Bridge Online Cello Studio, where I taught on Sundays, and we had a series of master classes and performance classes all on Zoom. Again, students from all over the world, which was amazing. And then colleagues started asking, you know, hey, I want to put together a project,

but I don't know how, can you help? Can I work with you? And it just sort of organically morphed into a coaching career. And it started purely as just business coaching of this is how you do it. This is how you put it together and has evolved even more into just, oh, you know, it's business and mindset coaching. It's a little bit more holistic, uh, and, and helping people recognize their genes, their dreams, find clarity about what they want to do and put the pieces together of how they can, how they can make that happen. Yeah. I love it. I love it. Yeah. It's amazing. I feel, I mean, I'm so privileged because we're friends. So I get to hear so many amazing stories from you. And I love watching all of these things evolve as time goes. And one thing that you

mentioned is, um, in the recent posts, I think where you were talking about the fault, how a lot of things kind of, we just fall into it. And I feel like that was kind of similar for me as well, where oftentimes some of the decisions I've made were not conscious decisions based on asking myself what do I want and how can I make that happen or or just even try to see if I can make it happen but it was following the beaten path and what had been done before and what people were advising me to do so I love that your story shows us that even if you do some of that which is follow along what is traditionally done. There's also the possibility of, oh, I'm going to use your own words, changing the script. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Like, what does that look like? Because it takes a lot of courage first to ask the question, even dare to ask the question, because a lot of people say, oh, I can't just do what I want. I have responsibilities and I have to be reasonable and look at what is possible. So they don't even ask the questions, but then once you ask the question, facing the answers is not always easy. And then you have to take action, which is super not easy. So tell us everything. Yeah. I mean, one example, well, two examples. I mean, one was telling my high school teacher that I in fact was not going to USD to study with her friend who all of her students went to but I was going to NEC where none of her students had ever gone where

she didn't know Colin Carr I mean she knew his reputation but like that was just going completely against the grain of like I was in this privileged situation where I basically had a clear path to an incredible teacher, an incredible school. And I just said, no, thanks. I'm going to do this. And she questioned it. And at the end of the day, she said, okay, you know, you have to do what you want to do. And it was, it was the best decision. I mean, nothing against USC or it was just, I knew I was moving in the right direction for me. And the other one was, you know, you were at New World symphony as well. You go and you are trained and you take orchestra auditions and you win a fabulous job. Right. And I had sort of, as I said, fallen into it and I loved it. I loved the

concerts. I loved the opportunity to put together concerts of my own. Um, I had so many great experiences, but I knew to my core that I did not want to be an orchestral player. I just knew it. I couldn't, I couldn't pretend and I wasn't taking auditions. And I had to tell Michael Tilson Thomas that I was going to leave because I wanted to just go to Boston and play concerts that I wanted to play. And he thought I was crazy. Of course, everybody thought I was crazy, but it, again, it was the right, right decision for me. I think one thing that helps because, and I see this in my clients and people I talk to all of the time, they are afraid of three things. They're afraid of what people will think if they go against the grain. So they're afraid of what

will happen to their reputation. They are not afraid, but there's an assumption of, well, if this was really the right thing, other people would have done it first. So they don't have the confidence to see that maybe they are going to be the first and people will follow them later. And then they say, well, I don't have the right skills to do it. Right. We musicians are not stupid. I mean, you can have all of the confidence in the world and the growth mindset and you can have all of these amazing tools, which we need. But if you do not know how to play octaves, you are not going to play the Dvorak Cello Concerto. You cannot will that into being, you have to have skills. And we know that. And the thing about skills is that they're pretty

easy to learn. You can Google half of them. Right. I mean, and so sometimes that can be just a fear that blocks them and stops them in their tracks. And sometimes it can be sort of a, an excuse to hide bigger fears but um yeah I think that those fears like that's one of the things that I have appreciated so much from my own venture in entrepreneurship and coaching is how in fields outside of music or I would guess maybe medicine or architecture you need precision for sure. You need, you cannot mess up your plans if you're building a skyscraper, that's for sure. But this idea that you can have an idea and sort of a, you estimate how you can make it come to life and just start taking action right away, as opposed to practice for hours and days and weeks

and months, and then you present this perfect package to an audience is how we can give ourselves this permission of trying new things. Absolutely. Without having it being perfect. Yeah. I mean, you don't build the festival and then announce it, right? You, um, you say you announce, I am going to do this and you just have the, you know, for me, I knew how to do a lot of the different aspects, but there are a lot of things I didn't know how to do. And I figured them out along the way. Um, but I, I gave myself the grace to say, you might mess up. That's okay because you can fix it. Yeah. Right. I had the, the, the courage, I guess is the right word to say, you know, whatever it is, I'll figure it out. And if I mess it up, I'll redo it and fix it.

yeah it's not brain surgery if i mess up we're all going to be alive it's going to be okay right and what's amazing about this is that that allows you and now all of the clients that you help come up with these brilliant ideas who are not just going to stay stuck in their heads but will actually come out as you know living entities and bring values to other people's lives absolutely I mean just the projects that have come out for my clients I mean how is it possible if everybody is so afraid that they're going to do the wrong thing how is it that time after time clients are having an idea and executing it and their ideas are not successful because they're working with me right what I do as a coach is I encourage them I guide them I hold them

accountable, but they're the ones doing the work. They're the ones having the idea and moving that needle and figuring out the skills and doing everything. How is it that time and time again, they're finding success? And what I'm finding and talking to people, and, you know, it seems every time I published another blog post, I'm getting emails saying like, me too, I don't know where to start. I want to do something. I'm afraid. What will people think? I hear this time and time again. And I just want to shout, I want to gather everybody in our industry into one big room and say, you all have ideas and you all want to do them. Let's just agree that it's going to be okay for us to do that. Yeah. And I think I took you on the tangent there, but I was asking,

how does that look like to start maybe even contemplating asking yourself questions and like, how does that even, how can one go about it? Yeah. Well, I think, uh, clarity is where people get stuck and that's where you start. And, um, I have a great worksheet on, on finding clarity and what you do. I can put that, um, I can send that to you to put out. Um, but just different exercises to say like, what are the skills you have? What are the skills that you could, that, you know, you need to build, um, what's the project, what's one step you can do today. What's another step. Right. I always say that I like to dream big and long-term. I like to have a long-term vision of where I'm going, but I think very short term in terms of my to-do

list. Right. Like, yeah, I want to save the world. I'm going to, I don't know, plant a tree today, you know yeah um one little thing at a time um for clarity you know one thing that that worked for me and I think works for a lot of people is to think back on how you were as a little kid before music took over your life I mean for me I had two things I was very independent minded so like I said I often just sort of went slightly against the grain I was a Gen Xer. So I was a latchkey kid. I was on my own. I made my own decisions. And I also was a little budding entrepreneur. I mean, there was one summer, my parents said like, I'm sorry, like, I don't know what happened. I think my dad was laid off or something. And he said, we can't

afford to send you to summer camp this year, to cello camp, music camp. And I was so devastated, but instead of just staying home and sulking, I said, okay, well, there are a bunch of kids in my neighborhood that I babysat. The moms were like competing for my time to babysit. so well I'm just going to do a little summer camp in my backyard all of the kids can come to me we'll do projects and arts and crafts I'll make money from every single family and still the same amount of time for me it was like a group coaching program at the age of nine it's amazing yeah you know um it was perfect it was great so I was always sort of that's what I love to do as a hit. So I think I would start there. What are the things that you used to love to do?

And how can you incorporate it into your life now? I mean, I think that a lot of musicians who are finding that they're just kind of stuck in this default mode and want to do something, they want to step up in some way, right? They want to sort of bursting out of their skin to just some leadership in some way there's so many different ways to do it I mean if you're in the back of the second violin section in your regional you know pickup orchestra you you can be a leader in creating a wonderful environment you can like bake cookies for rehearsal right like there's always a way to lead no matter where you are um and so that's the thing like did you always love to cook do you love to bake do that do you love to draw did you love to design things well maybe

you could help out with some graphic art and graphic design or social media things um so I think that's a it's always a good clue of what are the things that you were drawn to as a little kid and how can you bring them into your current situation because that's the thing is I think we're all very creative in music and this creativity is not limited to the things we do with our instruments or our voice but I mean I find for me the podcast is I feel very creative when I make it yeah and as you were talking it was funny I have a sip of coffee the listeners can see me I've been sipping coffee it's like having coffee with Kate but when I was a kid I was dreaming of being a reporter and I would also play teacher and I would go where my mom

worked and they had these classrooms with boards like the the green boards I think they're called black boards in English but they were green so I'm gonna call them green boards with the chalk and then I would just play and pretend to be teaching classrooms and I had a big moment years ago when I covered the fish off competition as a brand new podcaster, where I was interviewing someone with my phone, holding my phone to their face, interviewing them. And I had this realization of, wow, as a kid, I dreamed of being a reporter, but I became a musician. Look at me today. What I'm doing is reporting. And I thought it was so interesting. And in my coaching work, it feels so much like being in the classroom and, and teaching people on topics that I'm so excited about. So

it's really funny what you say about what are the things that you liked when you were a child, because I feel like I am slowly mixing all of these things. I loved playing music. Yeah. And don't you feel like you're a hundred percent you when you're, when you're combining all of those loves. Absolutely. Yeah. It's a great feeling. It's a great feeling. And this creative outlet of podcasting of coaching makes me enjoy performing even more. I really enjoy playing the violin these days. Yeah. Oh, I love that. I love that. Yeah. I mean, as you said, uh, I think for me, I didn't feel such a creative pull when I was playing the cello. Yes. I mean, when you're practicing and you're figuring things out and you're you're thinking about phrasing

but still I've never had an interest in composing but I always was very like well you know Brahms wrote this sonata and I'm playing it and so I always felt like there was a limit to my creativity as a cellist and I feel it much more in these other ways I feel like I'm being creative live in service to music still yeah yeah and that's that that feels right to me that feels right to me that is amazing what are some things that like someone sitting at home today or if you're watching us live don't hesitate to put in your questions if they have an idea or something that crosses their mind, but they always brush it off as in, Oh, I'm just dreaming. This would never happen. What, what is something that they could do to get started on this road of maybe

exploring if this could happen? Yeah. Um, I would write about it. I would write, first of all, i would just spend some time saying i'm gonna assume the yes which is i say all the time if i am to like ask somebody if they want to do something i'll assume the yes they say no i'll deal with it but assume the yes right go into it saying like okay i have this idea i'm gonna assume that it's gonna work what would that look like for my life for my family in you know how would that affect my life? Let's assume that it works and it's a great thing and it didn't ruin my reputation. People didn't wonder who I thought I was to do it. All of those things that we're worried about, it just goes really well. And just take some time to sort of envision

what that looks like in your life and get really comfortable with that. Because usually what happens is people say yeah no that's what I want that's how I want my life to look and okay well then why wouldn't you go for that if that's what you want your life to look like and then I would break it down and say okay what what things need to happen right what things do I need to put into place um maybe five big bullet points and if you don't know ask people who have done it um sometimes that's not possible if I wanted to know you know what are the five things I need to put in place to do a virtual music festival like well nobody had done it before there was nobody to ask but I could ask people who had put on you know virtual conventions

I guess those hadn't happened either but you know in-person festivals I talked to people who had done in-person festivals. I had done them myself and I just sort of figured, okay, what are the things that need to happen? And then maybe do a little bit of research. And the name of the game at this point at the beginning stages is make two lists. One list, the things that you do know how to do, right? What skills do you have? What do you know needs to happen? Which ones can you do? And then what do you need to figure out? If it's a skill, get on it, get on Google, read a book, ask someone for help. If it's information, you can find that easily. And just start filling in the blanks. That's all it is. It's just filling in the blanks. And I think, I don't know if you

agree with me. Also, I wanted to say also, if you have these ideas, you should get in touch with Kate and get a coach because I, for me, I know how coaching has changed and continues to change my life all the time. And I cannot speak enough of how valuable coaching is. Um, but you know, it's, it's, um, it's really amazing how it is both easier and more difficult than we think. and at times it's so tempting to give up because it is so hard but it is always worth it but at the same time many of the other things are a lot easier and then you look back and you realize look at this thing that I've created it was first of all so much easier I never thought I could do that and of course in the process of creating anything you'll have to face a lot of limiting

believes in challenges in stepping outside of your comfort zone those are the harder things but but it's so worth it I would say I love this absolutely I mean even the the first time I the first year I did the the virtual summer cello festival I can't remember what point it was but there came a point where I thought all right this is hard and maybe people won't, maybe people won't want it. I think this is something people will really want, but maybe I'm wrong. And I really was full of that self-doubt and I have this image firmly in my brain. This did not happen. There was no swimming pool. There was no diving board, but I have this image in my head of me climbing up to dive off a diving board and chickening out

and say, no, no, I'm not going to do it. And having my coach on the stairs, pushing my bum back up saying, jump, it's going to be fine. Yeah. Right. And so that's, that's what a coach will do. She didn't give me the answers. She didn't tell me, oh, no, no, no, you just need to do this. And she didn't even say, no, no, people want it. People want it. She didn't say that. She just said, just keep going, keep moving forward. What's the next step? Pushed you on the butt up the stairs. Yeah. So, you know, I think working with a coach is absolutely important to keep you accountable, to, to help you in those, those moments of self-doubt and resistance is another one. Resistance is a big one I see with my clients. And, and, you know, that's what I'm

there to do, push them through it. I had a client just this morning who was feeling very resistant to her next steps and feeling very down and exhausted. And she was exhausted by her resistance, right. And by her inaction and she needed to raise a certain amount of money. And I said, you know just give it your all send out some emails just do it you know and and keep going keep moving forward and you know I bet you will raise the money by noon and I swear to god by noon she had raised every cent and um yeah and it you know it's encouragement it's encouragement and of course a lot of other you know we we coaches do go to school and do learn skills for this. So there's a lot more to it, but on the basic level, what's the resistance when you talk

about resistance, what's some of the resistance you've seen from your clients? The resistance that I've seen is when they have to make a scary phone call, an intimidating phone call or an email to somebody who they respect, um, they will find reasons why maybe they're not the best person after all, or, um, suddenly, you know, they, they have a cold and so they really need to rest when this person normally would just be like, oh yeah, I have a, I have a cold, you know, get on with it. Um, so yeah, it's when you see them using any excuse not to move forward and trying to justify their lack of inaction, that's resistance. I mean, it comes in all forms. I mean, sometimes it comes in really unhealthy forms, self-sabotage, um, you know, those are sad

situations but they hit the artistic community a lot unfortunately but um you know not practicing for a competition right when you know you have time and you just procrastinate um you clean your house 10 times but you don't go over that passage once yeah yeah so resistance comes in all forms. Yeah. And it's rooted in fear. Yeah. And for anybody who, who, for this resonates with, if you check out the book by Steven Pressfield, the, the war of art is a great book. It talks about resistance and battling resistance. And as you were talking, I was thinking, you know, that's one of my favorite things about the pandemic. I did not hate everything about the pandemic. There's many things I enjoyed. And that was one of my favorites is how all of a sudden

there were no rules anymore. And I mean, we saw how the biggest orchestras and the biggest opera houses no longer could follow their own rule books. They had to change things. But for all of us individuals I think that we also first of all need to reach out to each other and still and need to create in one way shape or form and what I'm hoping stays with us is I think we realize that there are no longer the gatekeepers that used to exist and that now with the technology that we have, anyone can create anything that they want and put it out there. And I hope that all of this, you know, bubbling energy of creativity that we saw continues. And some of these things that were online was so great to see it streaming. And my dream is that we start to see

them yes still streaming but that people take that and you know present it live in person and that really helps rejuvenate the classical music community I want to see new organization popping up everywhere yeah absolutely and I also would add that because of what happened and because of what we saw. We, and I think to sum it up, you could say those large organizations are so difficult to maneuver quickly, right? It's not that they were incompetent. It's not that they were inept. It's not that they weren't sensitive to what was going on. I mean, some maybe more than others, but it takes a lot. There are so many people involved to make a decision to pivot in just the slightest way for an organization, but for one person to have an idea and execute it,

it happens overnight. And so what we saw in the last couple of years is the opportunity for individuals to really come up and make a difference, to take on some leadership roles, to step up, see a problem, or see something that was missing, that was lacking, right? In my case, there's no festival for these students. I'll make a festival. For other people, there's no access to lessons for these people. I'll create access for them. Whatever it is, we saw, okay, well, the big organizations are not just going to swoop in and fix everything for us the way we expected in the past um and I I believe that that will remain I think that there's room for both I don't think that you know big arts organizations are going to disappear nor do I think they should I think

they absolutely serve an incredible purpose and a function in our industry but I think that there is now we've shown we've seen that there's room for both yeah there's room for everything yeah you just are endless absolutely yeah yeah this is an abundant universe you just used the word that made me think because i'm your friend i know about it too but i saw that it came out today and i think it's related to what we're just talking about that you're launching the creative leadership summit yes tell us about it i'm so excited about this this has been brewing in my mind for a while. And, you know, as I said, the two biggest things that I'm hearing whenever I talk to people who want to step up in some way or want to change their career in some

way is that they don't know where to start and they don't know what skills they need. They don't know what they have to do. And so with my Creative Leadership Summit, which is happening online on zoom from tuesday june 28th through friday july 1st of this year so in two weeks starting two weeks from today for those of you watching live um and i'm gathering people from all over the arts industry so we have people from music from dance from theater from the visual arts who and in fact most of them have a musical background in some way which i think is interesting. And they have stepped up. And so the idea is that these are artists themselves, right? These aren't people who trained in some academic field and then went into arts

administration. These are artists who have taken that step and put themselves into some kind of leadership position, whether it's with an organization or with a community or with a project of their own. So it's going to be inspirational stories every day. It's going to be kind of interview session format where I asked them how they got started, what they had to figure out, you know, what steps they took in their, in their journey. And then there's a bonus session each day that talks about something specific, like, like doing some PR for your project or, um, writing grants or building relationships with donors, um, and cultivating that. And then on Friday, it's going to be, I'm going to be leading a masterclass on leadership,

talking about, um, the skills that we need to build and how to sort of figure out that clarity and what we know, what we don't know, all of that good stuff. So I'm very excited. Um, and you should all come all amazing yeah because it's true what you said at the beginning it's nice to have an idea in give yourself permissions to even have the idea and not just brush it off but where do you begin absolutely that's the hardest question and so that's what we're hoping to answer just to give I think what I'm hoping to show with the summit is that there are going to be 12 different stories and 12 people starting in 12 different ways but the point is that they started and I hope to create a sense of community you know with all of these people who are all

there wanting to step up which should help with that whole well what will people think of me well what do you think of the people around you you think they're pretty great right um so that sense of community maybe some networking it's never a bad thing and a lot of inspiration and some some skills that you'll walk away with that will help you get going so i'm very excited general admission is free which and by that i mean if you just want to come to the sessions live and watch them on zoom it's absolutely free to you um for 97 less than 100 dollars. You can get a VIP pass and you can get recordings of the sessions. You can watch them later or on your own time. You get access to the bonus sessions each day and you get access to the

Friday masterclass. So it's quite the deal. I want to make it as accessible to as many people as possible. So it's going to be great. I'm really excited. Give me all the details. They're all going to be on your website, I'm guessing. They are. And I'll give you the page, the exact page for that as well. I'll put that in the show notes when this episode comes out. That's right. And I feel like, you know, I want to ask you some rapid fire question that we all know are not so rapid, but there's also one thing that you said is how you give me so many ideas. I have all these ideas in my head but how can you show up as a leader anywhere is is such a powerful idea so i wanted to mention it again because it's true that sometimes it just takes one person to change

the atmosphere the um the way things happen in one community and and you don't have to be the designated leader of that community to show up as a leader to change the culture wherever you are so I think that it's I love this idea of yes both following our dreams in terms of if if we have ideas of things we want to create outside of what we're currently doing and if you want to completely change your life that's awesome go for it but then there's also people who want to keep the life that they have and they love it and they're interested in exploring maybe other ventures just to keep you know things interesting but also getting some ideas on how to make the life that they currently have within the artistic communities that they work with even much I don't know if

that's even much more I find English even more enjoyable fulfilling dynamic vibrant yeah yeah Yeah, absolutely. I don't think any of us, well, I don't think that we all want to be, you know, in the spotlight, you know, president of Juilliard, you know, that kind of leadership is not what everybody's looking for. some people are saying well I just think that this should happen in the community and I'd be willing to help make that happen which is amazing and but even if you sort of you love sitting in the section you don't want to be principal that's just not your it's not your scene um that's great but I don't think anybody wants to live their entire life or their entire career just being told what to do and not having any agency over their career and their life I don't think that ever feels good we only have one life we we kind of know how we want it to look and how we want it

to feel and I would encourage those people to maybe just try it out baby steps like the you know make some cookies for rehearsal um plan a family movie night like plan something within in your own safe secure world where you take the lead and say we're going to watch this movie and order pizzas and make ice cream sundaes it's going to be great right um so i think that you can practice and as you said just find that sense of leadership in whatever way feels comfortable especially if if you just want to try it on for size see where it takes you you never know could be president of Juilliard in a year. Anything's possible. Kate, I would love to ask you some rapid fire question.

First, tell me about the habit. What's the habit that you have that contributed to your success? Habits. Well, I mentioned it before. I'll give you another one. The one I mentioned before was that I dream long-term and have a very short-term to-do list. But another thing that I do is I have a habit of bringing intention to what I do. And that is something that I didn't used to do. I've built that intention of how do I want to, how do I want to show up in any given situation, whether that is in the practice room, how am I showing up? You know, when I was preparing for concerts, it would go according to my mood. I'm tired, but I'm going to show up and just listen to intonation and work on that. A party, how do I want to show up? Teaching my students,

if I've had a long, rough day, I still want to show up as a certain kind of teacher. So that's a habit that has really helped. I love that. How about the skills? You've mentioned several but still skills do you think young musicians studying today should acquire in addition to learning to play their instruments the number one skill I think young musicians need to acquire is to stop worrying what other people think of them which is so hard because we are trained from day one to worry about what people think of us right we plan our lesson we get feedback. Our whole career has been based on getting feedback from people. Um, and that feedback is important. Don't get me wrong. Um, but not to be concerned with what other people

think of the decisions you're making about your own life and career. They're too busy worrying about their own life and career. Anyway, they probably don't know, notice what you're doing, but I think that that's, that will give you freedom to make the right decisions for you. yeah yeah that's so great so important to make that and you that's something you said also about your own life this you didn't use the word empowerment but that's I'm guessing maybe how it felt when you made these decisions knowing that they were the right decisions for you yeah how about a favorite book or books well I mentioned the um the war of art by Stephen Pressfield but my other favorite book well it's twofold if you are struggling with what path you

want to take in music um whether that is do I go into it professionally do I not do I continue whatever it is I can't recommend The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron highly enough I mean it's it's just such a beautiful book it's very circular it takes you through it over and over in different ways and will bring you great clarity. If you do know what you want to do, you have a good idea of what you want to do and just aren't sure how to do it. I love Brendan Burchard's, um, high performance habits. And he has six distinct things that, that he encourages you to do and, and great insights. Um, and he has worked with high performers in every industry and sort of boiled down what they had in common it's a great book great book awesome and a very easy read

my husband will be happy to see the amazon box my porch i'm so jealous we don't get amazon here oh no but you have the beach we have the beach it's true what is if not the best advice at least one of a great piece of advice that was given to you that you'd like to pass on to the listeners? I'd have to say something that Gary Hoffman, the brilliant cellist told me once we were, um, he came to play a concerto with us at new world and we were all having dinner with the cello section and him afterwards. And I asked him what advice he would give us as performers, soloists, cellists, you know and he said um the most important thing to understand is that 95 percent of the time when you

perform you're gonna feel like crap it's like whether you're jet lagged and the rehearsal is like at 4 a.m your time or you caught a cold on the plane and your nose is running or you're just not feeling well or something happened in your personal life he said more often than not you are not going to feel a hundred percent when you go out to perform and you have to a get out there and do it anyway and b understand that you can get out there and do it anyway you don't have to feel a hundred percent to perform to perform well and he went on to say that the mistake he saw on a lot of young performers is that they would cancel things because they didn't feel well. Um, and that, that did more damage than, than if they had just gone on. So that has helped me obviously in

my performing life, because you know, he was right. Like you get on there, the chair is not quite the right height or they moved it. Something's not right. Um, but also just in everything that I do, you can't let that stop you. It's so easy to use it as an excuse and just say, yeah, I don't feel a hundred percent. Of course you have to take care of yourself, but you can do it anyway. Do it anyway. Yeah. That's a powerful thought because it's right. Like now I have my coach hat on because it's what you made that mean to how you're feeling. Yes, exactly. Yeah. And I'm not saying like, if you are seriously ill, of course you have to deal with that. I'm not talking about, like you have the flu and you're very sick. I'm talking about just not feeling great.

And knowing that it's just like nerves, right? Of course you're nervous. You go, you don't cancel the performance. So yeah, that, that advice has served me well in many capacities. Thank you for sharing. How about an actionable tip? an actionable tip. Okay. Um, this is one of my favorite activities. I do it every week. I do this every Sunday. Uh, and I do it in every aspect of my life that I'm kind of working on, if it's a project or a personal thing, but I would choose one area in your life. If it's a piece of music that you're working on, if it's a project that you're working on, pick one thing and think about one thing that would move it ahead in this next week, right? If you're preparing for a

performance, if you, if you got all of the bowings and fingering, if you settled on what you want those to be in the whole first movement this week, that would be moving the needle forward. If you memorize the first page this week, right, that would be moving the needle forward, but pick something and you can do it for as many areas of your life as you want, but just know that in a week's time, you'll be a certain point ahead. It feels amazing to be able to see that progress rather than, yeah, I'm still working on it. Yeah. I'm still working on it to be able to say, well, I've done this and I've done this and I've done this. It's awesome. Super motivating. I love that, that precision. Yeah. And intention, right? Then you're showing up with a specific thing in mind. Yeah. Yes. Kate, thank you so much for sitting with me and sharing this amazing insight with the listeners. And I just can't thank you enough for all of this wisdom.

And I hope everybody check out that Creative Leadership Summit that they go on your website and check out all of your resources. Kate has so many awesome clients doing amazing things and they love her. So if you have any ideas of projects that are just kind of nagging at you, you know, just that one idea that keeps popping in and you're curious. I, you, you offer, um, calls to sort of dig in to see what that could look like to work with you. Absolutely. Reach out. I offer free 30 minute consultations. You can talk about your project and what ideas you have and what your best next step might look like.

Um, and Renee, thank you so much. Always a pleasure to talk with you about these things. And, um, thank you for sharing me with your, with your listeners and vice versa. Awesome. thank you so much and thanks for those of you saying hi bye hi i can't see comments but hi