The Mind Over Finger Podcast - 173 Stewart Goodyear: Sound World

Starting point is 00:00:00 You're listening to The Mind Over Finger Podcast, episode number 173. Welcome to The Mind Over Finger Podcast, discussions on mindful music making, efficient practice, optimal performance, and building a purposeful life and fulfilling career. I'm your host, violinist and certified performance and life coach for musicians, Dr. René-Paul Gaultier. Hi, everyone. I hope this episode finds you having a fantastic day. I'm very excited about today's guest. I bring you the brilliant and thoughtful pianist and composer Stuart Goodyear. But before I bring him in, I'm curious. Are you feeling stuck, as if you're going through the motions

Starting point is 00:00:51 without making real progress? You've put in all the efforts, but you're not seeing results? Or maybe you've hit a career plateau and you're unsure about how to advance towards your dream job. And what about auditions? Have you ever experienced auditions where you thought you were well-prepared, but things fell apart? Do you struggle with performance anxiety, negative thoughts, and self-doubt? Does that stop you from delivering your best? I understand the challenges you face. It's frustrating to invest so much effort without seeing the outcomes you seek. We try to work more. We find ourselves practicing repetitively without a clear direction. And the mental game can be tough and discouraging. Preparing for

Starting point is 00:01:39 performances requires a different approach than practicing alone. It involves performance training, conditioning methods, and effective mind management to be fully prepared in the right headspace and ready to perform. So let me ask you, are you currently pursuing auditions or aiming for a significant career milestone in your music? What do you believe it will take for you to deliver a winning audition or secure your dream position and create your ideal musical life? Well, if you're searching for real solutions and guidance to elevate your musical journey, I invite you to join the Music Mastery Experience, my highly personalized and transformative group coaching program. The Music Mastery Experience is the most comprehensive coaching program for musicians

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Starting point is 00:03:29 your musical journey and help you achieve your goals. No more wasted time or frustration. The Music Mastery Experience is going to equip you with all the tools and guidance you need to save time, energy, and effort while achieving the results you desire. Visit mindoverfinger.com slash MME right now to learn all the details about the program and schedule a free conversation with me. Together, we're going to plan how to turn your vision into your reality. Get ready to excel in your auditions and propel your musical career to new heights. So book your free call now at mindoverfinger.com slash MME and I'm eagerly looking forward to

Starting point is 00:04:17 speaking with you. And by the way, I'd like to share a message I received from one of the participants in the Music Mastery Experience. She says, I'm living my dream because of the work I did in your program. I truly appreciate your guidance. The tools you introduced me to have had a positive impact on all aspects of my life. I use your foundation every day and enthusiastically recommend your course to others. You helped me completely change my life. Let me tell you, as you're listening to this, this kind of transformation is within your reach.

Starting point is 00:04:54 So let's connect and strategize to make this a reality for you. Again, it's at mindoverfinger.com slash I'm at me to book your free conversation with me and find more information. And all the details and the links are in the show notes. I can't wait to talk with you. Okay, let's dive into this week's conversation. Stuart Goodyear is a world-renowned concert pianist, improviser, and composer. He was

Starting point is 00:05:22 proclaimed a phenomenon by the LA Times and one of the best pianists of his generation by the Philadelphia Inquirer. Stuart has performed with and has been commissioned by many of the major orchestras and chamber music organizations around the world. The recording of his suite for piano and orchestra and his piano sonata were released by Orchid Classics last year, and his recent commissions include a piano quintet for the Penderecki String Quartet and a piano work for the Honens Piano Competition. Stuart has an impressive discography, including the complete sonatas and piano concertos of Beethoven, as well as concertos by Tchaikovsky, Hill Stork, Grieg, and Rachmaninoff, an album of Ravel Piano Works, and an album entitled For Glenn Gould. His Rachmaninoff recording received a Juno nomination for Best Classical Album for Soloist and Large Ensemble Accompaniment,

Starting point is 00:06:19 and his recording of his own transcription of Tchaikovsky's The Nutcracker was chosen by the New York Times as one of the best classical music recordings. Stuart has a busy 23-24 season, and some of the highlights include performances at Summer for the City at the Lincoln Center, the South Bank Center in the UK, the Schleswig-Holstein Festival, a recital debut at Wigmore Hall, his debut with the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra, and his return with the Milwaukee Symphony, Buffalo Philharmonic, Philadelphia Chamber Music

Starting point is 00:06:53 Society, and a Carnegie Hall debut with the Royal Conservatory Orchestra. This was a fascinating conversation about music making that will take you beyond the nitty-gritty of practicing and invite you into a universe of creativity and personal musical exploration. Stuart's wisdom really sparked a profound reflection for me. And I know you're going to walk away inspired. Let's go to the show. Stuart, good year. It's so great to have you on the show today. Such a pleasure to be here. Thanks for inviting me. It's good to talk to you. Stuart you and I have known each other for many years if I can get my hand on the picture of this

Starting point is 00:07:45 recital we played together I think maybe like we shouldn't say maybe 35 years ago or so I might post that on social media but I am so excited that we have this chance to take a deep dive and talk a little bit more about your wonderful career but also your process both as a performer and a composer. Certainly. So can we begin there? Please tell the audience about you and your path on this musical journey. Well, it started when I was three or four years old, and music was a part of my life from the very beginning. It was just my heartbeat and love listening to any kind of music from pop to classical to jazz my dad left a legacy of LPs he died a month before I was born of cancer but I got to know him through his LP collection

Starting point is 00:08:44 and so he had LPs like the Beatles Led Zeppelin and Ravi Shankar as well as two boxes of symphonies of Beethoven and Tchaikovsky and it were those box sets that really started my quest to be a musician and it's still thankfully still going yes Stuart you have this I don't know if it's a habit by now but this habit of playing these marathon concerts where you play the entire you know the cycle of Beethoven sonatas one of the questions I get the most often from listeners they're really fascinated about artists practice processes and also memorization processes so I would love for you to maybe dive into this topic with us a little bit talk to us a little bit about this practicing process that you have and also how does it work for you to memorize

Starting point is 00:09:43 music? So I memorize pieces quite quickly because I just put myself into a state where I'm just very, very relaxed. And I'm looking at pieces in a whole. And I guess with every piece I look at, the storyline, I think if I was not a musician, I would have loved to have been a film director because I'm just fascinated by how people tell stories, timing, what frames they use, what devices that they use and similarly how what devices composers use in order to tell their story i recently um um learned a lists sonata which is a work that um for pianists they start quite early like teenagers learning this and i had this rebellion when i'm thinking myself my gosh i heard this piece so many times i just you know if i got it out of my um ears for a little while

Starting point is 00:10:41 and learn something else and that happened for maybe you know a long time and then finally um but yeah with the list sonata it was the same kind of practice where you know i was looking at it and thinking myself all right what is this piece about for me and how does list tell a story from my ears and how am i going to approach it from a very personal point of view and then start from there. And then the practice begins where every two pages, I'm going back and then playing those two pages and then adding another page and adding another page. And, you know, working on different lines, but at the same time working on the structure as well. And that's part of the process of memorizing pieces quite quickly, as well as developing muscle memory.

Starting point is 00:11:30 so the musical process the interpretation the story you're trying to say is integral to the learning process itself exactly oh i love that this is great you talk about being in the state of relaxation and it's so interesting because not a whole lot of people would associate practicing with being in the state of relaxation i want to hear more about this okay Yeah, I guess it is a discipline and it's definitely something that one has to cultivate, you know, just that level of relaxation because a lot of the music is so intense and if you're too intense, your body kind of freezes up. I know for me, I develop bad habits if I'm not relaxed. I'm constantly fretting about getting a passage right or trying to learn or trying to create a deadline for memorizing the piece. And, you know, it's not healthy for me.

Starting point is 00:12:35 And I think it's the worst way to go about it. Even when it comes to performing, it's something where I'm thinking to myself, all right, I'm not going to think about notes. I'm not going to think about passages because that work is already done. All I'm going to think about is telling that story to the listeners of that moment. And we're all in this together. We're all on that journey together. And having that mindset relaxes me, too. Thank you for saying this, that it's a state that we cultivate.

Starting point is 00:13:06 because some people think that it's something you either have or do not have oh yeah yeah what are some ways that you know someone who's maybe aiming to get into a relaxed state like this what are some things that you think they could try try their favorite movie like you know try a movie that they you know everyone has a movie that is their favorite and they know every single line of It could be an Adam Sandler movie. It could be an Ingrid Bergman movie. It could be The Princess Bride. It could be Scarface.

Starting point is 00:13:38 No matter what that movie is, have that internalized. And what was it about that movie that made you watch it over and over and over again? And what were the memory exercises that one had to know every single line? And it's all about the enjoyment of watching, as it is to me, like the enjoyment of learning a work and listening to a work. That's part of what makes it such a joy to learn and to internalize pieces of music. I love in what you're saying that you keep mentioning the word joy, which is for me in the work that I do as a coach, such a big thing. And in as much as we want to take our craft seriously, we also don't want to take ourselves seriously. So for me, it's

Starting point is 00:14:28 really wonderful that you bring that element of joy in this context of you know practicing of preparing for performance and i remember this from you know we've known each other for a long time and uh watching you perform back in the days at the at the cmc is that you really did seem to enjoy yourself and and you seemed very absorbed in the music yeah yeah because even from a from a young age you know that was my um that was my breath that was my heartbeat you know and that you know and that was something that I loved to do was listen to music and it was just such a part of my life it was like I was sharing my life with people yeah even from um even if it was um from a competition it was still you know a matter of you know I'm playing for the judges

Starting point is 00:15:20 I'm playing for whoever's listening as you know I'm even playing for um the people who I'm competing with, I was not even thinking about it, you know, of course I wanted to win, but I wasn't thinking about it as competing against someone. Right. More about competing with somebody and, you know, seeing what they brought to the table. And then from there, really learn about what they did, how they made music and really share what I would do as well. So I think there was more sharing than it was about, all right, let's see how I'm going to better you. Oh, that's wonderful. And as I hear you speak as a mother myself with young children, I think it's so wonderful that it appears that whoever was working with you, your teachers and your mother did a fantastic job in cultivating this in you. what do you advise you know what advice would you give to parents or teachers to support their

Starting point is 00:16:20 child or their students in this way so that that child does not lose this joy or approaches music making with such a healthy mindset as what you're talking about right now i think ask the kids who their idols are. Ask the kids what got them into this world. You know, for kids who want to be in sports, who want to be in music, who want to be in any kind of practice, there was someone or something that got them to that, you know, to that place where they're just hungry to be a part of that world and to have the parents be a part of it with them i think if you know from there they'll they'll know exactly what what to do you know especially when they know exactly who their kids are what they dream about and who their idols are it makes it almost natural

Starting point is 00:17:18 to mold them and it's not about drilling it's about you know motivation and about inspiring them to really strive for whatever they want to strive for. Right. Would you describe yourself as someone who is self-motivated in the practice room as a kid? Oh yeah. Yeah. So it was a matter of keeping you inspired and not forcing you to sit in there for a given number of hours every day. Yeah. Well, I wasn't thinking about it as like, I have to have this amount of hours. It's really about, all right, as long as it takes or as short as it takes, I'm going to get this passage to my liking. I'm going to reach a pinnacle that I feel worthy of this work, worthy of this piece that I really, really adore. And it's all about not thinking about how many hours did I spend. It's

Starting point is 00:18:14 like did I get it did I achieve what I wanted to achieve truly a labor of love yeah oh that's wonderful that brings me to another thing I wanted to talk to you about outside of your career in recorder as I understand as a recorder player is that aspect of composition because I remember as a child you were already composing and let's hear about this how this was you know I'm guessing hearing you speaking about this love and um inner enthusiasm that you had for it did the composition process just sort of you know come about on its own well it did start to me I didn't think of um my passion for being a pianist and my passion for being a composer as separate I just felt like you know um the idols that i admired had both passions in their lives and you

Starting point is 00:19:18 know even you know past composers that you know that were not alive but i you know what what they you know what they created and what motivated them and what inspired them like beethoven like rock monanoff like clara schumann who balanced both um composing and being a you know one of the first touring stars that we have and how she combined that as well as being a mother with many, many children and what she did, what was her discipline and how, what was the balance to keep that all together was something that really, I don't think it has been that successful, successfully duplicated. You know, she, she was quite a force.

Starting point is 00:20:07 Yeah. And how does that look like right now? You talk about discipline and balance. You have a very busy career and I'm seeing that there are some wonderful performances of your works. How does that look like right now? that's a good question like for you know for composition it's been um it's a labor of love but it's another discipline altogether because it's really um it makes the days even longer because you know in the practice room i am so much in the sound world of the composer that i'm interpreting but as a composer you have to get out of that sound world and you have to really be inspired by the outdoors and by all kinds of different environments so having that kind of discipline and um knowing how to balance both you know both worlds from you know from a studio

Starting point is 00:21:05 and from the outside is you know it's definitely um something that is very important to me and it's definitely a balance that you know i'm still i'm still trying to wrestle with but it's um it's a part of what makes me tick as a composer um you know just hearing the heartbeat of you know of the present and every piece that i've written has that i love that expression of sound world yeah what is that i don't know if this is something that can be put into world into words but what does your sound world feel like for you um or is that too personal of a question i'll definitely share um a lot of my work um goes back to my childhood um because it was such a period of absolute optimism, not like I'm not optimistic now, but there was a childlike

Starting point is 00:22:14 optimism and a restlessness and a curiosity where you just want to know everything, smell everything, experience everything, see everyone. And, you know, as a kid, you're so wide-eyed and, you know, you're not you're not concerned about the social graces if you're really amazed by something you point and kind of internalizing that and saying and you know from a you know from a pointing uh standpoint thinking all right what would i be pointing to while i'm creating this what would be something that a five-year-old me would really be excited by. And it's a rule that I always, with every piece I write, if it's a slow one or a slow movement of some sort or a very busy one,

Starting point is 00:23:11 it's always a matter of, all right, you know, as a five-year-old me, what would make me tick? that's incredible that's incredible and to again as a mother i think that it's such a testament to the type of environment your mother was able to provide for you that you can say those things about your childhood it's quite touching yeah that's wonderful um sorry i feel like i'm taking you from one topic to the next um there's so many things that you say that make me think of others other topics I wish we had hours to cover one again going back to this discipline and balance that you you talked about Clara Schumann being a really busy touring artist and you are

Starting point is 00:24:02 yourself a busy touring artist right now I think the listeners would be really curious to hear a little bit about what what that entails in terms of negotiating a lot of repertoire traveling performing multiple programs and composing as well what does that look like in terms of um you know let's say taking a piece from point zero to performing while juggling a lot of other projects tell us a little bit about how you negotiate this and maintain somewhat some balance yeah it's busy it's busy and it's um i'm i'm self-managed so you know not only am i a composer not only am i a pianist i'm also a self-manager and wearing those many hats requires a lot of time and also again a lot of discipline so it's like you know i devote myself to this

Starting point is 00:25:02 you know to you know the management side get you know get my emails done make sure that traveling and lodging and all this kind of thing is squared away so once i'm there all i'm thinking about is the concert that i'm going to be doing and the concert that i have you know the next time and then once i'm there i also want to take into this you know uh taking the sites you know um you know i love revisiting cities and you know reconnecting with friends of mine and going out for dinner going out for coffee and you know having that a part of my life and then after that when i'm in the hotel there's not much to do in the hotel anyways you're basically in a room so it's perfect so it's it's it's a great opportunity to um compose be inspired um by the company that you

Starting point is 00:25:49 had spend time with and you know you do some writing and then there there's there's the dressing room where i go through the pieces that i'm going to be performing for that city as well as thinking about all right the next thing what do I have and yeah it's like ongoing ongoing ongoing and what about coming back full circle the focus to practice and learn repertoire so fast I know that you talked about that state of relaxation and something that you said about memorization makes me think that maybe pattern recognition is something that is yes yeah how do you because my whole thing is like mindful practice you know mindset all these things um what helps you maximize your time in the practice room i think exactly what you said

Starting point is 00:26:43 it's all about patterns and it's all about what ideas come back and it's back to the storytelling where you know with storytelling with every screenplay um that i i love uh reading screenplays to movies that i've watched and i love in plays um you know even adaptations to plays that have that have been made into movies that i think are quite revealing because they focus on one word a lot when it comes to screenplays or there is a theme that they always come back to with every you know, with The Princess Bride, it depends on what that is. It could be revenge. It could be true love. And the lines that have been so iconic and immortal, a lot of that has to do with what themes come back. And it makes it such a joy to remember those lines. And it makes it easy to

Starting point is 00:27:42 remember those lines because you have such a connection with the context of where those lines come from and i think that's another thing about um pieces like this list sonata it is a you know one thing that made it um okay i'm gonna say this what made it easy to learn it's you know there are a lot of notes but i think what made it easy to learn was the fact of looking at it from a storytelling standpoint because list gives a lot and there are themes that come back And he layers out the storyline beautifully. So, you know, it's a work that's half an hour and, you know, there are no breaks. So it is really a story and it captures your attention because of exactly how lists places the plot lines.

Starting point is 00:28:34 That's really fascinating. and as i hear you speak i think i you know probably am inspired and not inspired but also um what is the word in english this is where being a french speaker can be hard at times and when you're holding interviews in english um influenced is the word that i was looking for by um also the solo episodes that i've been creating lately on the podcast which were all about mastery and the the latest one that came out is about um introspection and self-exploration so i think as i hear you speak i'm also fascinated by how your process is so unique to you and you have really figured out a way that works for you probably a combination of who you are um you know

Starting point is 00:29:24 all the the conditioning that you've had throughout the years your knowledge your personality all of this and it just makes me want to say how oftentimes so many musicians are looking for the recipe and like i should say the recipe with like quotation marks when if we give ourselves permission to just explore and do a lot of self-exploration and introspection we can come up with something completely different for ourselves and for me it looks like you have absolute um you you really have created your own way of operating you know you talked about sound world earlier and it looks like you've also created um an artistic process world that is truly unique to you and works and i think that's what we should all aim to do is really explore give

Starting point is 00:30:21 ourselves permission to just dig in for the answers instead of looking for processes out there right yeah i love this approach that you're talking about that seems to be coming so much from you know the and you know you can always tell me if i'm getting this wrong but that comes from your storyline front of the piece your vision your artistic inspiration and then you find the technical tricks to make it all come together yeah and we you know like technique you know it's really a lot of it you know is um that it's the muscle memory it's the muscle memory of you know of knowing your body so intricately that you know exactly what the spots are what to work on you know just like an athlete what muscles will do um you know what when you

Starting point is 00:31:14 want your body to do what is that muscle that enhances that part of the body that kind of mindset that heartbeat that endurance you know um athletes hey and i have a down pack as is uh to how much time is needed on each muscle and you know with musicians with violin with clarinet with you know with breathing and all of those things all of that technique is you know it's a it's a part of it and it's about of all right what are you working on how are you going to work on that passage so you get the um you know the ultimate success and you know it's uh it's just part of the um it's part of the fun it's you know practicing it's interesting calling practicing fun but once you you know it's like sorry mary poppins but i'm gonna steal your um quote

Starting point is 00:32:03 you know you find the fun and the and the job's a game yeah and um you know with practicing when you know when you when you find that element of what is it that makes you tick you know you don't you're not even relying on time as about to all right how are you going to get this right how are you going to get this game um winning yeah oh i love this i mean i held three joyful practice challenge for that very purpose is where is the fun yeah and you know how can we bring play back in playing the instrument so how about a quick round of rapid fire question before i let you go today okay certainly and you think i would know all of the questions by memory by now after five seasons but you know what i'm just going to pull my list here anyway um well you know let's just

Starting point is 00:32:54 stay in the same line of thought? And what makes practicing more enjoyable for you? What makes it enjoyable is hearing the audience's response to what you're doing. I don't know about, you know, athletes, I would love to talk to more athletes, you know, when it comes to, you know, shooting that hoop or, you know, scoring that goal, what are they thinking of? What is that exhilaration? Where does that come from? And What exhilarates them? Is it the cheer? Is it the goal itself? Is it the fact that there's just that give and take that goes on? Is it a combination of all three or four? And it's always very, very different with every piece that I write. You know, it's the same discipline, but it's always something that constantly surprises me. And, you know, the element of fun is so different for each piece. Right. Oh, this is great. What is a habit that you have that you think contributed to your success? that's a good question that's a good question hopefully whatever it is is going to keep me

Starting point is 00:34:07 is going to keep me going I like it or maybe what what is the quality that you think you have that contributed to, to your success? Honestly, it's, you know, what's success to me is reaching that listener so completely. And, um, that, you know, uh, the listener is giving, uh, you know, giving to me as much as what I'm giving to them. That's what makes it makes a successful performances like we're all in tune with each other that's beautiful do you have a favorite tool in the practice room my favorite tool uh stretching yeah i really like that about a performance that has stayed with you the particular significance for you throughout the years what comes up for you well there's a bunch um herbert blomstedt conducted uh

Starting point is 00:35:09 Beethoven's Egmont Overture. It was, you know, there were quite a, when I was, when I was in New York or I was going to Carnegie Hall a lot and checking out programs, but the top performance to me, what stayed with me was Herbert Blomstedt doing the Egmont Overture as an encore. And it was so, it was, it was the feeling that I had listening to that performance was so powerful and words just couldn't do justice to how i felt but it did change my life

Starting point is 00:35:47 and it was the beginning of how i ended up on a quest of doing all of the sonatas in one day i love hearing that story that's that's very fantastic um let's see what's a piece of advice that you would give to the listeners there's no wrong way of listening and there's no one way of wrong way of responding if you're if what you feel is true whatever the music is saying to you is saying something very powerful and embrace it. That's beautiful. Stuart, I like to ask each guest to give an actionable tip that the listeners could apply in their practice or their performing or their musical journey. What would you offer to them as an actionable tip? A tip? When you go into a practice room,

Starting point is 00:36:51 just sit down, take a deep breath. And I think being in a state of relaxation, you could do anything. You could almost be very, very goofy. Look at yourself in the mirror and make sure that you're not taking yourself too seriously by probably coming up with the most ridiculous facial expression ever. And then after that, relaxing you that way, and then you're already and the mindset of you know whatever goes whatever happens it's all a part of that journey and yeah you're you're always surprising yourselves and um you know with every piece it's never the same old same old so it's something that it's not it is a routine it is a discipline but at the same time it is not a chore if it's done right yeah yeah i love that is there anything

Starting point is 00:37:44 that we didn't i mean there are many things we didn't touch on today for sure but anything in particular that you would love to have the opportunity to share with the listeners either about you or about music no you you'll just have to invite me back again for another hour and then we'll you know we'll we'll we'll let it rip that sounds great can please tell us a little bit about the multiple ways that maybe we can catch you live there's a few coming up in chicago so i'm very excited about that but what's coming up for you in the next few months and i will i should have said this before i will invite the listeners i'm gonna put all these links in the show notes of course um you have a fantastic youtube channel there's some really great videos of your

Starting point is 00:38:30 performances out there and your website has all of your dates um but anything coming up in particular that you're very excited about? I'm really excited about Chicago. I'm doing Grand Park coming up, and it's a work, speaking about sound world, I love the story behind this work that I'm going to be performing with the orchestra.

Starting point is 00:38:54 It's a work that Sanson wrote in three weeks. And imagine that kind of discipline and that kind of drive and whatever the mindset was in order for him to write a 20-minute work in a few weeks and then perform it, you know, just almost immediately after. So Saint-Saëns and Anton Rubinstein, who was this piano superstar, Saint-Saëns accompanied, well, was at the podium when Anton did his own concerto. He was a soloist.

Starting point is 00:39:31 And so, you know, just right out of the spur of the moment, I don't know if it was after one drink or many or whatever happened or just the high that they have after that successful performance. Like, let's trade places. And I, Anton, will be on the podium and you, Camille Sasson, will be the soloist. And Sasson saying, okay, great. Let me write a piece that I've never played before for the occasion. And so just that amount of craziness, ingenuity, and, you know, almost like a rabbit trick and what the result of that was. And there was absolutely no time to think, absolutely no time to second guess. Everything was about, all right, what makes you tick right at that second. Almost similarly to what Gershwin

Starting point is 00:40:23 had to do, you know, pulling a rabbit out of that hat was, you know, to write a work that was going to be premiered I mean maybe two or three weeks afterwards as soon as he got the notice oh wait I have to write a work for piano and orchestra and everything was the spur of the moment no second guessing letting the right take you there and having that job be a game and what a game it is that that work never ceases to delight and chant and it's going to if I do it well it's going to knock people's socks off so that's my assignment for um for my concert in Chicago that I do justice to Saint-Saëns, hopefully get as wild a response as possible because Saint-Saëns is worth it. And we know you will. Stuart, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing

Starting point is 00:41:11 this wisdom with us. I feel like it's a real invitation for all of us to give ourselves permission to explore and ask ourselves questions and just let our imagination wild. So I want to Thank you for that. My pleasure. Thanks so much. It's just such a pleasure. Thank you guys so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Mind Over Finger podcast.

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The Mind Over Finger Podcast - 173 Stewart Goodyear: Sound World

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