The Mind Over Finger Podcast - 194 Gloria Lum: Audition Confidential

Episode Date: March 22, 2024

Gloria Lum, cellist with the Los Angeles Philharmonic & founder of Audition Confidential shares insight on profound audition preparation techniques, talks about the significance of mindset in musical performance, and offers pragmatic practice tips.   Sign up now for the brand-new FREE workshop – Mastering the Stage Download the transcript from this episode HERE     MORE ABOUT GLORIA LUM Website: https://www.auditionconfidential.com/   Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100037763813779 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/audition_confidential/   Mind Over Finger Click www.mindoverfinger.com/coaching to book your free consultation with me. Visit MindOverFinger.com for my online courses as well as free resources on peak performance. Connect: https://www.youtube.com/@MindOverFinger https://www.facebook.com/mindoverfinger/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/mindoverfinger https://www.instagram.com/mindoverfinger/     THANK YOU: Most sincere thank you to composer Jim Stephenson who graciously provided the show's musical theme:  Concerto #1 for Trumpet and Chamber Orchestra – Movement 2: Allegro con Brio, performed by Jeffrey Work, trumpet, and the Lake Forest Symphony, conducted by Jim Stephenson.

You're listening to the Mind Over Finger Podcast, episode number 194. Welcome to the Mind Over Finger Podcast, where we dive into the world of mindful music making, peak performance, and crafting a purpose-driven life and career. I'm your host, violinist, certified performance and life coach for musicians, and your guide unlocking your full potential, Dr. René-Paul Gaultier. Hi, everyone. How are you today? Amazing, I hope. In this episode, I bring you the wonderful Gloria Lum, cellist for the Los Angeles Philharmonic and the founder of Audition Confidential, Gloria's coaching container where she helps cellists prepare for auditions. A native of Berkeley, California, Gloria attended

the University of California at Los Angeles and the University of Southern California. A student of Gabriel Rideau and Ronald Leonard, she was a member of the Oakland Symphony and the Denver Symphony before joining the LA Phil in 1985, where she holds the Linda and Maynard Britton Chair. In her audition confidential courses, Gloria discusses the technical, mental, and artistic aspects of musical life. In both groups and in one-on-one sessions, she helps cellists with practice strategy, repertoire knowledge, and mindset techniques that help them feel more confident and satisfied with their preparation and their increasing artistry. And in our conversation, we covered topics that will help you feel more satisfied with your preparation and artistry.

We talked about Gloria's journey of discovering her own unique learning style amidst the struggles of traditional practice routines. She shared insights on audition preparation techniques, including her five-pillar system for holistic readiness. We discussed the importance of mindset in music performance and the need to bridge the gap between practice and stage. We dove into the value of patience, acceptance, and slow practice, along with practical tips for efficient prioritization and sound improvement, and so much more. I know you're going to feel inspired and motivated for your next practice session listening to Gloria. And before I turn the mic over to Gloria, I want to make sure that you are joining me for my brand new workshop,

mastering this stage. I want you to imagine stepping on stage in your optimal performance state, feeling confident and feeling ready to rock your performance. I want you to imagine feeling free throughout your entire performance. Well, this is not just a dream. It's possible and it's what we're going to be exploring together in this free three-day training happening from April 4th through 6th, 2024, from 10 a.m. to 11 a.m. Central. Go to mindoverfinger.com for all of the details and to sign up today. During Mastering the Stage, we're going to dive into what truly works and what doesn't in performance preparation. We're going to identify how to overcome the roadblocks that sabotage your progress.

We're going to talk about the mindsets that will launch your practice into hyperdrive. And we're going to cover the techniques that will transform your performing experience. So get ready to unlock all of the secrets. You're going to find all the details and the link to sign up for this absolutely free and absolutely transformative workshop at mindoverfinger.com and in the show notes for this episode. I cannot wait to share this journey with you. So make sure to sign up today. And now let's go to the show.

Gloria Lum, welcome to the show. It's so great to have you on the Mind Over Finger podcast. Thank you so much for inviting me. I feel very honored. Gloria, you have such a wonderful, interesting journey. I would love for my listeners to hear it from your mouth. Please tell us about how that artistic path has unfolded for you. You know, I have to say that I feel like I've been on the orchestral path all my life. I grew up in Berkeley, California, you know, which had a wonderful music program starting in the third, fourth grade, where I started to play the cello, although I really wanted

to play the clarinet because I was fascinated by all those keys. But my brother said to me, oh, play the cello. Nobody plays the cello. I thought, oh, okay. So that was how I picked the instrument. But, you know, even from a very early age in grade school, we did, we had little orchestras, we had string ensembles. And I just really loved that feeling of sitting in a group and being part of something. Now, Berkeley School System has, like I said, a wonderful orchestral program. There were tons and tons of my colleagues and fellow students who played instruments. There were a couple of youth orchestras in the Bay Area, one of which was called Oakland Symphony Youth Orchestra, which I joined. And I think there was always this

incredible sense of camaraderie that I felt with my colleagues, with my friends, and we just had a lot of fun. And then there's this wonderful conductor named Dennis Dicoteau, who was the conductor of the Oakland Symphony Youth Orchestra, and he really instilled upon us as young people, you know, discipline, showing up, and being respectful of the music and of each other, and I think that that just really set me up for my orchestral sort of life. One of the incredible things that happened is our youth orchestra, when I was 16, was invited to go to the Herbert von Karajan Youth Orchestra Festival in Berlin, where our orchestra took the silver medal. So, you know, it was an incredibly exciting time with lots and lots of music and interest. And

I feel like when you're at that time in your life, you're just like a sponge. And so that was wonderful. Berkeley High School also had a wonderful orchestra. And I just have to give a shout out to my conductor at the time who scheduled, he actually scheduled Mahler 2, which I think looking back is just kind of crazy that we actually did Mahler 2 with a high school orchestra. I think we only had two ringers. But again, this feeling of sitting in an orchestra, being part of something greater than myself and being surrounded by the sound is something that I think really led me along the orchestral path. Isn't that amazing how these youth orchestra experiences have such a profound impact on us? I really resonate with what you said because

that's what it was for me is the way making music with my friends and playing this incredible repertoire made me feel is something that shaped who i am today without a doubt i think that it's not unlike soccer teams you know growing up and and getting that sense of teamwork where you are part of something greater and you are all working towards a goal you know that's kind of what life is all about because nobody goes through this life alone you know and it's great to have support and realize that you can rely on the people around you. I have to tell you, you know, when I go out and we were playing quartets or chamber music, you know, I feel like, okay, we're going to go out there and have each other's back. You know, we're going to be there for each other, you know,

and that is how it is in an orchestra. It's certainly how it is in chamber music. And I think that was really instilled upon me, in me at a very early age, this sense of shared responsibility, shared goals, shared joy. Yeah, yeah. And it really underlines the importance of education, especially access to education. Absolutely. And I feel super, super grateful and thankful that I was in a situation where there was lots and lots of music, wonderful musicians, wonderful mentors, who helped shape us all and who gave us that access, not only to themselves as wonderful teachers and musicians, but, you know, in like orchestras and youth orchestras and that kind of thing, which is so incredibly important, not only as a musician, but, you know,

growing up, just becoming an adult, a responsible, you know, hopefully adult who gives back to their community. Oh, yes, absolutely. I mean, without a doubt, music impacts those facets of our personalities so powerfully. Yes, it's true. And correct me if I'm wrong, but you're a California girl through and through. You went to University of Southern California. I did. Yes, I did. Sorry, go ahead. You go ahead. I was going to ask, how were those college days for you? you know um I actually started at UCLA without being I was a music major but I had made the decision that I really didn't want to go to a conservatory because I had so many other interests and so I'm really thankful that I I spent two years at UCLA where I took every liberal arts

course I could possibly every art history course I could you know I took German I took English I took all political science and I had so much fun but after two years I said you know what this is great, I think I'm going to become a musician. At the time, I was studying with Gaboraito privately, and he said, why don't you come to USC? So I did transfer over to USC and into the music school, which is a very different sort of place as a young student. You know, USC had a great, great orchestra. Daniel Lewis was the conductor at the time. We played Mahler six. This is the thing, playing Mahler in young orchestras. And I just think just doing this deep dive into orchestral music and performance just really helped me pinpoint that that was the

way I wanted to make my living. And it was interesting because at the time, I remember we had a discussion. I had a discussion with my teacher and he said, so what are you going to do? you know when you graduate and I thought well uh I guess I'll play in an orchestra and I think he said oh yeah you can do that and I still think that there's a little bit of um a prejudice against going into orchestral music because as string players and you know we play concertos we play sonatas you know there's there's chamber music and while that is all fun you know realistically how many people actually make a living playing in a quartet very few um and it's a freelance sort of life I kind of needed uh the stability and I really did love orchestral music

so I'm glad that I didn't feel put off by somebody who's who wasn't maybe a hundred percent behind the idea of an orchestral career I think at that time it was not considered to be like the top of one's profession. It's so crazy how someone's input like this can impact the course of one's life. And I'm so happy that you felt pretty secure in your own convictions and did not let that veer you off course. Yeah. I also feel like when I was at USC, I kind of flew under of the radar because I was a really good player, but I wasn't like a star, you know? And so I didn't have that kind of pressure on me where people are saying, wow, that person is going to really go be a soloist or something. I was like, no, it's not for me. You know, I didn't have,

I don't think I was that talented. And I don't think that I had the grit and determination to really try and go that way. So I think that was okay. I felt like there wasn't eyes on me necessarily. So it was easier in many ways to kind of do my own thing, go through my own path and say, this is right for me. Maybe it's not for anybody else, but I felt very certain that that was the path I was going to take. Thank you for sharing this. I feel like it's so important for some people to hear this and really take it in that it's not always necessarily those who are dubbed, as you said, the star students who are part of this exclusive club, who is eventually going to, for lack of a better expression, make it or create a life for them in the arts. And it

really shows how when we move forward with our own convictions on our path, it really leads to amazing things, as we can see with your career. I also love that you shared about taking a couple years to give in to other interests and expand the horizon of, you know, what is happening outside of the music world. I feel like sometimes for some of us, my path was very directly into the world of music. And sometimes I'm curious to know what would have happened if I had explored other fields before I fully dedicated myself to music. I mean, I'm very happy with how things have worked out for sure. But I think that, as you said,

that sometimes maybe orchestra back then wasn't seen as the way to go. Nowadays, sometimes there is a stigma attached to not being serious and not going straight into music conservatory or music education. So thank you for sharing this. I think this was really important

for the listeners to hear as well? You know, I have to make a confession, which is I was never the kind of player that could do like six hours in a practice room and just like, I just couldn't do it. That wasn't sort of how my brain worked. And I would make the excuse, you know, I think it's important

for a successful musician to experience all sorts of things. So that means maybe I'll go out for a walk today or something like that. I think in the end, it worked out really well. maybe a little bit of that was due to my like, lack of complete dedication. And I just knew that for myself, that sitting in the practice room for hours and hours was not going to work for me, you know, so I really encourage people to find their particular way of learning. And for me,

it was like spreading a wide net. And I really feel very, very happy that I have had a big background in literature and art history, because I feel like it gives me a lot more sort of things to work with and think about when I am, now that I am a professional musician. And when I think about how does I, how do I want a phrase to sound? Well, maybe it should look like Monet, you know, or maybe it should sound like, you know, Shakespeare, things like that. And I just think that a wider sort of education just makes us more complete human beings and better musicians. And also because so much of what we're trying to do as musicians is to really connect with those human emotions. And those human emotions happen in art, they happen in literature, obviously in

music. And I feel like the more, more available, the more emotions and knowledge you have available to you makes you a better musician, more interesting musician, hopefully. So well put. So well put. I love what you said about finding your way of learning. And that's a great segue in another topic that I was really curious to approach with you, which is that audition process, because you have a wonderful program, Audition Confidential. And I'd love to hear as well about your audition journey and what led into Audition Confidential. Sure. You know, I took my very first audition when I was a senior at USC and it was for the San Francisco Symphony. And I had had the good luck to work for the first semester of my senior

year with Ron Leonard, because Gaboraito had gone on sabbatical. And so Ron was taking four students and he was fairly new to the Philharmonic as the principal at the time. So I like ran down there, signed up with him. And Ron really taught me so much in terms of how to listen to myself. And so I had a wonderful 12 weeks with him. And when I decided to take the San Francisco audition, I asked permission, of course, from my teacher, would it be OK if I worked with excerpts with Mr. Lennon? He said, oh, sure, fine. And so I remember going to Ron's dressing room backstage at the Music Center, and we

would go through the excerpts that the San Francisco Symphony had sent me. And of course, I didn't know the first thing about excerpts. And I thought, well, I'll practice my Dvorak, and that'll be great. So I got there, you know, and I played my Dvorak. And I think they put like Heldenleben up. And I thought, ooh, I don't think I really practiced. But in my preparation, one of the wonderful things that Ron would do is we would like, I would put up an excerpt and he'd say to me, ah, the reason why they're asking this is they want to hear this, you know, or they're waiting for you to rush here or make sure you don't do this. So he gave me very specific information about the excerpts. And I thought, oh, my God, this is like cheating on a test. This is fantastic.

And I thought, this is great. So I kind of became hooked on that. And I think after I left school, there were a couple of other auditions I took. And I reached out to Michael Gravani, who was the principal of San Francisco Symphony. And I took lessons with him, kind of going through the same process. And so I guess at the end of my first year out of school, I did land a job with the Denver Symphony. And that was fantastic.

You know, here I was living in a new city, young, single, you know, paying my own way with an orchestral job. That is so cool. But I thought this is not the end of the road for me. You know, I thought I still had greater ambitions. I wanted to go on to a more major symphony orchestra. And I think one of the most important things I did was I became very, very close friends with the assistant principal cellist at the time, who is a wonderful musician, wonderful cellist. And we spent so much time like listening to music, playing for each other, you know, just talking about things like phrasing and singing.

He had a background in singing. And it really opened up my ears and my imagination to really have this very close sort of working relationship with a friend who I could kind of think about things with and say, what about this? And we would, you know, play for each other. What about that? Try this. Try that. You know, and it was like an incredible workshop. uh so for five years I played in uh Denver Symphony and uh David and I were just very close and we would continue I think both of our sort of musical education um and so uh I took the Philharmonic audition and I got it you know so even though I actually had the flu on that day but I was able to kind of power through and say well I just don't want to fall over because I have the flu and I'm sick, which sometimes takes your attention away from like the enormity of an audition. It's just like, my only goal was to get out there and not fall over. So I would say that

hopefully your listeners who are thinking about taking auditions are not going to do it when they have the flu. But I think the idea of not worrying so much about every little thing that you do uh and how it's going to go to put yourself outside of the actual you know mechanics of playing is a great way to think about an audition because as we all know the preparation for an audition is so intense because you are thinking about every bow every breath every you know shift and we get so uh into the actual technique technical aspect of it which of course we have to that sometimes it's really hard to get out and then that becomes what we think about when we're actually going into an audition yes yes i 100 agree with this yes and that speaks volume

about your level of preparation for this audition and the fact that if every single logistical event is not going exactly as we would have wanted it to be it does not mean that it's not going to go well right yes that's true there are so many other aspects that happen when you're sitting on stage just about to start your concerto and you're thinking oh my god can i get it all together and i was thinking about this the other day that the brutal reality is we practice hundreds and thousands of hours perfecting our craft and you get out on stage for an audition and you have five minutes to show everything you have done everything you have worked on or has to come together in those five minutes and it's not like oh maybe in 10 minutes it'll come together it's

like now from the beginning and I was thinking what other profession has this kind of intense intense um scrutiny and I have to have it right now and if I don't play well in five minutes I'm out of here and I've wasted you know whatever which of course you don't we can get into that later and I was thinking you know if you are like a NBA basketball player and you're like running down the court and somebody passes you a ball and you know I mean it's amazing to see what they do the other thing I was thinking is if you're a surgeon and you have your hands in somebody's body you know and something happens you have to bring all of your skill and experience and knowledge to fix it right then yeah while we don't have uh life and death within our hands

we do have to be able to make those incredible decisions and kind of deal with whatever is coming at us i mean you know as a musician things happen during concerts um good things bad things you know and you have to be like right on top of it and know how am i going to like make this happen or make this better or respond to my colleague because they just played the most beautiful phrase. And I want to play it like that too, which is maybe a little bit different than what I've been practicing. So this idea of flexibility and being so prepared that you know your instrument, you know the music, and you can just go out there and go, yes, I'm ready. you know it's it takes a lot of a lot of experience it takes a lot of preparation

you know all those things go into how to prepare the best you can for any audition yeah yeah let's talk about that a little bit because you are the audition queen so tell us about Audition Confidential how did it unfold how did it happen what what led you to create this program? Well, I have played in the Philharmonic for many, many years. And for half of my time there, I have been on the audition committee, either as a member or as the chair. And I think auditions, I've always been fascinated by them just because they're so intense. And a lot of things that I realized was we have a lot of wonderful players who come and play auditions.

And I think, and the whole committee will say, wow, they were great. If only they had done X, Y, or Z. And sometimes it's very specific to an excerpt. Like, you know, they just ran right over that rest or, you know, they didn't make room for the flute who has this beautiful line and they're not hearing it. So one of the most important things, I think,

for any person taking an audition to realize is that the people on the other side play every instrument. They're not just cellists for a cello or violins for a violin. I mean, yes, you will have a preponderance of them, but you may have a flute player. You may have a trumpet player. You may have a percussionist. And so what is happening when you're playing your audition is we're sitting back there. We're hearing our own parts to your excerpt.

And if you don't make room for our parts, you are not necessarily out. But suddenly it's like, oh, okay, this person doesn't really hear what else is going on. And because we're given one line, that's your excerpt, but you have to realize that there's an entire orchestra that's playing with you, and you need to know their parts as well as yours. So when we talk about phrasing and rests and letting your colleagues kind of play their line, even though they're not there on stage with you, the rest of the panel is hearing that line. So these are the really subtle parts, I think, of playing on the audition that I felt people don't know these things and they're not hard to learn. And how would you possibly get that very specific sort of knowledge? Well, you want to study with somebody who plays in an orchestra. So I thought, this is something that's needed. And I think with the pandemic and the advent of Zoom, it's like now we have the ability to work with incredible teachers from all over the world. And you don't have to fly to like New York or Boston or LA to study with somebody. You can do it online. online. And I think it is just so important that this kind of knowledge be available to people because it's not rocket science and it's like basic. And I think that when you are going to

invest so much of your time and your energy and your money into taking auditions, you know, why not do it in a way that actually will give you a leg up? Go ahead, study with somebody. If you can't stay with someone find an online course you know really do a deep dive into these things because that will set you up in a way that you would not have known otherwise because playing excerpts is a very very specific knowledge especially for string players especially for section string players because we're not soloists and unlike a principal flute audition or principal trumpet audition you know that's a different kind of playing I mean they still have to have all the skills obviously but as a section string player you have to be able to blend you have to still

show your artistic and musical personality but at the same time you need to be completely aware of all the other things that go on around you you know we're not the soloists you know so it's a little bit different and there are really sort of fine lines that you need to kind of know about how to navigate well should i take more time here or what's the right tempo here or you know all these sorts of things that i know many many musicians have questions about so when i created this um company um i thought i have a lot to share and i'm happy to share it um i love to teach and i want to let people know there that this kind of information specific information is what you need in order to really be successful and you can't know what you don't know right yeah and that's

the other thing is you know I have many many years of playing in an orchestra so I know what I'm listening for but if you are a young player coming out of school there is just no way you can know what I know you may be the greatest musician you may be the greatest you know technical you know player and all that sort of stuff but playing in an orchestra is kind of a different animal and to get into an orchestra different than playing a concerto. Absolutely. I could not agree more. And as someone who really believe in coaching, believe in why white-knuckling it

when there's someone with expertise who can help me, I completely agree with you. You know, it goes to what you were saying earlier about the teacher who was telling you about the purpose behind each excerpt. Those are the things we need to know. right you know I have to say I am a little bit of an excerpt geek because of what I do but also what I love about every excerpt is in every excerpt there is a world that you inhabit you know like Debussy we talk about you know the the color and the sweep you know and we use our bow

in a different way you know I see I see Monet I see uh you know waves the whole thing you know and Brahms is very different and each excerpt is like a dive into a different world and within every excerpt you know I want to use my bow differently I want to use different vibrato you know I'm thinking about shifts in a different way the phrasing may change and so I feel like when you study excerpts you can become such a great player without having necessarily to put in you know 50 million hours on Dvorak concerto which it's great too but I love the variety I love the imagination that you really need to bring to every excerpt to make them alive and to make them different and and one more thing is when you look at an excerpt list let's say you're you know

you see everything from Beethoven to Strauss to Debussy to Mendelssohn to Mozart every every orchestra is looking for someone who understands those side styles and has the flexibility in their technique and their playing and their imagination to bring each one of those very different styles and feelings to life. So having that flexibility really comes with having the imagination, you know, that goes along with each one of those excerpts. And they're different for each excerpt. Yeah. You know, when you and I were going back and forth, and we were preparing for this conversation, you mentioned in one of the emails, the mental and artistic side of things and how for you, I think I might want to quote you on this, if you allow me,

because you said it so beautifully. You said, there's an evolution to how I think about preparation and how the mental and artistic side has really become a much more important part of what I think audition preparation should include. That's so beautifully put. Can you speak to that a little bit, because I think that's on point. You know, when I first started thinking about teaching excerpts, a lot of it was very technical, you know, as a cellist, I can say that's out of tune, try this fingering, try that bowing. But as I worked more and more with people, I realized that, you know, we all come to this very intense situation with very different abilities. I came up with what I call the five pillar, my five pillar system, which

is quickly organization, technical, mental, artistic, and physical. And within each of these five different pillars, you know, we do a deep dive into what are the kind of things you need to do to really organize yourself so you can get up and just start doing it. A lot of times people say, I have an audition in six weeks. How do I begin to organize? So we talk about that. Technical is obviously, you know, the sort of the nuts and bolts of it, but also a lot of what we do is talk about like how to practice you know I know Renee you're really big into like different ways of practicing slow practicing practicing with a metronome practicing in little bits and pieces so we cover that I think for me what I find the most interesting is the mental and the artistic

aspects of audition preparation because as we all know and this has happened to all of us we get out on stage and think oh my god do i play the cello or something like how does this go you know sure that we are really like in sync with everything um takes a tremendous amount of mental preparation as you know you know and so you know we talk a lot about visualization we talk about um even affirmations i talk a lot about having how you sort of blend your mental your mental conversation in your head all the time, even in practice, because I feel like what happens to us if we haven't taken care of the mental aspect of audition preparation is I'm ready to go. You know, technically I think it's right there. And then we sit down and then you have

your little person, my little devil on my shoulder who goes, are you sure you really work hard enough? And here comes that shift. Are you going to be able to make that, you know, and we, it's like, who's talking who's saying that stuff so one of the things I love to do is when I'm practicing I really work on positive reinforcement for myself you know like yes that was great oh that sounds so beautiful and when we pair and I have no scientific basis for this just sort of my own feeling when I'm playing and I can feel in my body yes this is how it sounds this is the right this is how the bow feels when I'm pulling it across the string I'm going to say to myself this sounds great this sounds fantastic you know and I think it's really important because I know

that when I do a physical act whatever I was thinking at the time absolutely is right there so I love to this idea of pairing the physical and the mental in practice so that when we are under stress the voice that comes to talk to us is the positive one and not the negative one so that is an incredibly important part of that fourth the fourth pillar is artistic you know that's all about imagination um you know is it a color is it an emotion one of the things i love to do and i think my clients hate me when i do this it's like tell me a story you know and walk me through your excerpt, you know, and every little thing. I mean, I think like opening a Beethoven five, I'm walking along. Then I stop. I turn around, you know, so it's really kind of

really, I don't want to say stupid, but very specific details. For me, music's a lot about motion. You know, we're moving through a phrase, we're moving through an excerpt. We have to take time to breathe you know maybe sometimes we see a flower ah that catches our attention and even the idea of just like looking away you know will change how you are playing a note you know and it's those tiny little things when you listen to a really great player and you sit down and you analyze what are they really doing with their bow or what really happened to that note it is amazing the the complexity that happens and just we don't even notice it we just know that's a great player but you sit down and try and figure out why is that person such a great player you know it's

these tiny tiny things that we may not really hear but we kind of recognize at a different level that just suddenly goes wow that that was great what did they do so one of the ways I feel like we get to that is by working through very specific things you know and the other great thing is nobody knows what you are thinking hopefully while you're playing yeah and so you can think whatever you want as long as you are able to like use that as a way to really express completely your feeling about a phrase about you know uh you know anything um you know the direction all that sort of stuff I feel like the more specific we can be, you know, the more successful we'll be in actually producing that.

I could not agree with everything you said more. Yes. And I think people underestimate how much work that mental preparation is. It's a real intentional effort. I think that a lot of times, this is what I hear all the time is, oh, I didn't, visualize or I didn't meditate because I just had to practice. And then what we do is we practice and then we practice more and then we practice more, but we don't develop the skills to bridge the gap between the practice room and the stage so that when we hop on stage, we don't have the

skills to handle the overthinking that happens, the spiraling thoughts that assault us as we're performing. We don't know how to handle these nerves because we haven't done it in the practice room over and over and over again. And I love what you're saying about musicality and developing these very specific stories because that allows us to enter more of this right brain part of us. Now, I know left brain, right brain, this is slowly being debunked scientifically, but I'll just go with that because people know what i mean by this so as we perform if we're still stuck in how to execute things then that can really hold us back it makes us a little bit more rigid but when we're really prepared when we're well prepared and we give into the story this is

it makes it easier for us to express and let go and enter that flow state that is so elusive at times right yes I totally agree and I think there's a fallacy when we look at great players we say wow they're just like totally into it but like you said we have no idea all of the work that goes into it I mean as a musician I mean I can say wow they can really play the violin that's amazing you know but you don't also know all the mental and artistic work they've done to get there yeah so that's true i think also um you know one of the things i've been thinking about is this idea of holding a duality you're right that when we are playing we need to we want to kind of be transcending that um the technical aspect but i know that for myself what i try and do is go

back and forth so hopefully in my technical preparation it's like as solid as it can be but you know there's always that big shift so what i do is i'll i'll stick stick with you know sort of my artistic i'm really i'm just letting myself play but certain times when i need like to really make sure that i nail something technical you know my brain kind of drops down from the artistic to a technical going okay don't forget this is what we're going to do and this is where that kind of slow practice comes in where you go okay i have practiced this shift i know exactly how far that is and I'm going to just like zone into my body and know that I'm going to nail it and it's like yeah I nailed it great let's go on and I can then like oh this is so beautiful over here so I think

this idea of constantly going back and forth and maybe it's just my ADHD brain but you know I jump around a lot I'm trying to like cover a whole spectrum of preparation whether it's mental it's artistic it's physical it's technical all these things are all happening at the same time so I think you can't go into something and say, Oh, I'm just going to be like in the zone. Well, being in the zone may mean we're like constantly going back and forth. I'm checking in with my mental state. I'm checking in. Am I really like getting that beautiful sound? And don't forget to vibrate more here, you know, so there's a lot going on. And I think it's totally, I think that's how successful musicians do it. I mean, I see my colleagues around me, you know, we're all like,

what's that fingering, you know, and then just really like laying into things. So I think it's having a balance and the ability to bounce back and forth successfully that really will kind of helps our preparation for really playing well under pressure. Oh, yes. I love that term, that duality for this phenomenon. I can absolutely agree with you that this is very needed to have that flexibility that you mentioned. Completely agree. Yes. Gloria, you had mentioned to me that there were some podcasts that had an effect on your thinking. And I'd love for the listeners to maybe get a little some information on those podcasts. Well, one of my favorite podcasts is called Hidden Brain by Shankar Vedantam. And Shankar talks to just people from all over the sort of psychological spectrum. He talks a lot about how we learn, how we think, how we feel. And by listening to this podcast, I've learned so much and been able to apply so much of sort of general psychology, I guess, to how I think about audition preparation.

I feel like another podcast, another writer I really like is Brene Brown. And this is really hard, I think, for a lot of musicians. I mean, it was for me, this idea of vulnerability. yeah yeah but in fact when we can like really show what we are thinking and feeling and and be totally okay with that you know that's when we are able to connect with those parts of people you know when you listen to a great musician or you listen to something you just think oh i feel that it's because they're feeling it too and because they have had the ability to access that part of themselves and then share it, you know, warts and all with you. So vulnerability is a big

part of it, which I love. Brene Brown talks about a lot of aspects of just basically showing up in the world in a very, I think, honest way. And, and, and even though you're afraid, you know, she still does it. Yeah. I think the other person whose, whose writings I love is Thich Nhat Hanh, who is, you know, a Buddhist monk. And I find that when I read writings by him, I just feel very calm. And I feel like, oh, it brings it back into perspective. And I love that sort of duality of this idea of the psychology from Hidden Brain, sort of the emotional aspect of Brene Brown. And then, of course, the very spiritual part of the Buddhist monk. So I'd like to try and draw from all those different aspects because i think that when we are playing our uh our instruments and

trying to access that part of ourselves you know we do need to go into those sort of dark crevices whether we want to or not because that's kind of what makes things interesting and those are the parts of our our personality and our being that i think other people recognize and actually respond to because we're not all happy. We're all not wanting to go there, but yet that's kind of an important part of just kind of being human. Yes. Yes. Thank you so much for sharing these. I think that all of those aspects that you mentioned, they map onto the artistic world so well onto our artistic life, onto the challenges that we face as artists. So very inspiring. And I know about Brene Brown, but I did not know about Hidden Brain. So that's when I'm going to check it out.

Yeah, check it out for sure. Gloria, if that works for you, how about a round of rapid fire questions? Okay, let's try it. And I have a brand new question today that I want to start asking my guests. And I'm so grateful that you agreed to be the first victim of this question. In the work that I do with the clients that I have a big part of what we do is untangle everything at the root. And for me, that means to understand how we're feeling, understand what we're thinking. And I profoundly feel the effect of what one piece of insight can have on our life. What one thought that we repeat

to ourselves over and over can change things. How those beliefs that we hold impact our everyday life, but also change the course of our entire journey. So I would love to know if there is such a thought for you or such a, maybe a sentence that runs in your mind throughout the day that is either helpful or maybe one of them changed your life. um i would have to say that the one sentence that i grew up with was from my father who said if at first you don't succeed try try again you know and this was something that i grew up always hearing um and i feel like that kind of got me through uh the many auditions that i took because also when you think about that the way i interpreted it was not so much um with any sort

of judgment. But if at first you don't succeed, try, try again. And it's actually kind of a positive thought, you know? So, I mean, I bring it into everything I do, whether it's like working out or playing the cello or, you know, trying to climb a hill or something like that. And I think that what I love about that is it's not nonjudgmental. So if at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Exactly. And then it really reframes the idea that not everything needs to be perfect and we shouldn't expect to succeed at first in everything. Right. And in fact, you, as you know, you know, you learn so much from your quote unquote failures, what we deem as failures, but the idea of just, you know, just brush it off, keep going. Let's just give it

another shot can be very, very helpful. Oh, I love that. Thank you so much. How about a habit that you have that you think contributed to your success? Okay. One of the things that I really believe in as a musician is scales and arpeggios you know and they may seem kind of stupid and it's like really do I need to practice this and the answer to that is absolutely and I always do scales and arpeggios because it's kind of meditative I can I can like fall out of bed in the morning you know have my coffee on my side and start playing scales and it's a way of waking up just my brain so scales and arpeggios the other thing is very slow practice really really slow practice I think really helps change someone's playing for the better I agree with you with the

scales so much I was joking with a colleague the other day we were rehearsing at the opera house and you know we're going through the first readings through the opera and every passage would stop and I would kind of lean forward and say yeah that's why we practice scales exactly right but we do all the time what skills do you think young musicians studying today should the choir in addition to learning to play their instruments patience patience and acceptance you know playing an instrument hopefully if this is a if this is the path that you choose will last your entire life and at my age after playing for so many years you know i'm still trying to get better but also knowing that at the beginning of your journey knowing that if you stick with it

every year you will improve. You will always become a better musician as long as you are aware that this is something you want to do. So I would say patience. The other one is courage. You know, it takes a lot of courage to do what we do and to be open, even if somehow maybe your journey doesn't go quite the way you think it might, or that you thought it should go. You know, there are opportunities at every turn and to really look for those opportunities and to maximize them amazing how do you maintain peak form I always struggle with this word in English how do you maintain peak form my kids always make fun of me while juggling you know such a busy schedule you have a family you have pets how does that look like for you I think it's being able to

prioritize you know hopefully when you have achieved a certain level of playing you know it's like when we play scales and arpeggios when we're reading tons and tons of music it's like okay I know I can rely on that so I think the other thing is looking at I mean we have so much new music at the Philharmonic because for some reason we just like they like to give us brand new pieces all the time that are hard so what we've all gotten really good at is just looking at a part and saying oh I know I can see exactly what it is I need to do so being able to prioritize knowing how to practice it you know so because we don't have a whole lot of time you know from week to week saying if I practice it this way I will learn it faster so a lot of times if I have

like lots and lots of notes you know I'll practice it in sections and then I'll kind of bridge those sections a lot of it it's you know how we practice mentally so I think prioritization and knowing how to practice efficiently. Mind over finger. Exactly right. How about a piece of advice that you would like to share with the listeners? What I would say is always be kind to yourself because what we do is difficult, you know, and it's easy to get discouraged, especially when we're taking auditions. So be kind to yourself, say nice things to yourself, take a break when you need it. I think what I would love to say is you do not have to spend six hours a day in the practice room. I mean, you just don't. And to be able to be smart about things, but also treat

yourself with kindness. Because I think the other thing is I feel like you cannot learn, you cannot get better, unless you are in an environment of acceptance and kindness. And it's your job to create that for yourself because nobody else lives in here except you you know and while it's wonderful to have you know parents to have teachers to have colleagues who are supportive it's really important that you do it for yourself because you're the one living in here and if you don't accept and create a kind space for yourself it's going to be harder to succeed yes love that Thank you so much, Gloria. The last thing I'll ask for is a quick actionable tip that the listeners could implement today

in their musical lives. What do you have for us? I would just say, practice slowly and listen really carefully to what it is, the sound that you're making and see, how can I change this? How can I make it more beautiful or more whatever the character is? And just, you know, I would say take one measure, just one measure, and see what you can do with it and different ways you can play it. That's perfect. Let's go right there. Gloria, tell us everything about where we can find you and all of the wonderful offerings that you have. You can find me at my website, www.auditionconfidential.com. I'm also on Instagram in the same name.

um one of the things that i'm doing most recently i mean i give i give courses but i'm actually launching a course in the next couple of weeks which is specifically for cellists which will take you through the entire um basically 11 of the most asked for excerpts we'll do a deep dive i'll have a set number of playing participants along with unlimited number of auditors and the backbone of this particular course is a video series that I created called the cello excerpt masterclass and in this video series what I do is I go through these 11 most asked for excerpts I play them I take them apart I tell you best ways to practice it what the audition committee is listening for what you should do what you shouldn't do you know and along with the video

series comes my parts with my fingerings and bowings and sort of a PDF that talks a little bit more about the most important parts about every excerpt. So that is coming up starting March 2nd. And you can find out all about that on my website. Wonderful. I'm going to put all of the links in the show notes of this episode. It sounds to me like if anyone listening is a cellist, they should absolutely sign up for it either as a participant or also as an auditor. Here's my French side coming out again. But that sounds to me very interesting for any string player actually or maybe even wind players, brass players interested about auditioning and maybe understanding a little bit more about how that works for us. Sounds like absolutely priceless information. Thank you so

much. Gloria, thank you so much for coming on the show and for this gift of your insights and wisdom today. You're so welcome. Thank you so much for asking me. and there you have it thank you for joining me today i hope you enjoyed this conversation with gloria lum from audition confidential you can find more information about gloria by going to auditionconfidential.com and of course i'm going to have these links for you in the show notes If you found our discussion valuable, please consider sharing this episode with friends and fellow musicians. Grab a screenshot of the episode, share on social, and with anyone you think might benefit from this conversation. Also, I would be truly grateful if you could take a moment to leave a review on iTunes.

Your feedback really means the world to me, and it helps the podcast reach more listeners. And finally, don't forget to sign up today to grab your spot for Mastering the Stage, my free workshop that will transform how you prepare for and experience performances. Get ready for more enjoyable, meaningful, and rewarding performances. All the info for Mastering the Stage can be found at mindoverfinger.com or you can click the link in the show notes. I can't wait to see you on April 4th. All right. That's what I have for you this week. Until next time, much love going your way and à bientôt.