The Mind Over Finger Podcast - 205 Sasha Romero: From Texas to the Met – Chat on Mastery, Mindfulness, and Advocacy

Episode Date: October 4, 2024

In this inspiring episode, trombonist Sasha Romero, principal trombone of the Metropolitan Opera Orchestra, shares her incredible musical journey from Texas to the Met. Sasha talks about her early musical memories, the challenges she faced along the way, and the importance of mindful practice. She opens up about managing ADHD, balancing work with life as a performer and educator, and her unique approach to audition preparation. Sasha also shares her advocacy for the transgender community and offers practical advice on how we can all be better allies. This episode is full of valuable insights for musicians at any stage of their journey, and Sasha's wisdom on practice efficiency, emotional management, and living authentically is sure to inspire.   Are you ready to take your playing and career to the next level and create a life that feels purposeful and joyful? Let's connect and explore how personalized coaching can support your journey. Click here to schedule your free consultation, and let's start turning your goals into reality. Book your free consultation with Renée HERE Download the transcript from this episode HERE     MORE ABOUT SASHA ROMERO Website:  https://www.sasharomeromusic.com/ YouTube channel:  https://www.youtube.com/c/JohnRomeroMusic Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sasha.romero.music LGBTQ Resources: https://www.sasharomeromusic.com/lgbtq-resources Transgender - A guide: https://www.sasharomeromusic.com/trans-guide Being an ally: https://www.sasharomeromusic.com/being-an-ally Videos: https://www.sasharomeromusic.com/videos How to create practice tracks: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4i5T-ngjfo/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==   Mind Over Finger Click www.mindoverfinger.com/coaching to book your free consultation with me. Visit MindOverFinger.com for my online courses as well as free resources on peak performance. Grab my free workshops and PDF downloads by going to www.mindoverfinger.com/resources. Connect: https://www.youtube.com/@MindOverFinger https://www.facebook.com/mindoverfinger/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/mindoverfinger https://www.instagram.com/mindoverfinger/     THANK YOU: Most sincere thank you to composer Jim Stephenson who graciously provided the show's musical theme:  Concerto #1 for Trumpet and Chamber Orchestra – Movement 2: Allegro con Brio, performed by Jeffrey Work, trumpet, and the Lake Forest Symphony, conducted by Jim Stephenson.

You're listening to the Mind Over Finger Podcast, episode number 205. Welcome to the Mind Over Finger Podcast, where we dive into the world of mindful music making, peak performance, and crafting a purpose-driven life and career. I'm your host, violinist, certified performance and life coach for musicians, and your guide to unlocking your full potential, Dr. Ranipo Gautier. Hi everyone, I have an absolutely fantastic episode for you today. I speak with trombone player Sasha Romero. Sasha was appointed principal trombone of the Metropolitan Opera Orchestra in 2018. Prior to her appointment at the Met, she held the position of principal trombone with the Fort Worth Symphony Orchestra from 2016 to 2018. Hailing from Longview,

texas she grew up with the acclaimed and robust texas band system and achieved great musical success at a young age she went on to earn a bachelor of music degree at baylor university where she studied with brent phillips and her master of music degree at rice university studying with alan barnhill in addition to a lengthy list of national and international solo and chamber music competition wins to her name sasha is honored to have been a semi-finalist in the brass division of the 2019-16 International Tchaikovsky Competition in St. Petersburg, Russia. Sasha is a passionate educator and currently serves on the trombone faculty at Rutgers University, Manus School of Music, and Bard College Conservatory of Music.

A highly sought-after teacher, soloist, and clinician, she has presented solo recitals and masterclasses at numerous colleges, universities, music conservatories, and industry conventions across the United States. In our conversation, we touched on many topics. Sasha takes us through her musical journey from being a young music student to becoming a successful professional musician. She opens up about the challenges she faced, like managing ADHD and honing her audition skills, and she shares valuable tips on efficient practice, developing musicality, and balancing

work and life. Sasha also talks about her advocacy for the transgender community and the importance of being an ally through action and education. This is one of my favorite interviews. In fact, if she accepts, I would love to have Sasha back because I have so many more questions for her. There just wasn't enough time and I love her perspective on things. Sasha shares great insight, and I know you're going to enjoy and learn so much from what

she shares with us today. And no need to take notes. Click the link in the show notes to grab the summary and transcript of this episode. All right, let's go to the show. Sasha Romero, I've been having such a great time following you on social media. You are a fantastic player. You have great practice tip. You're creative.

You're funny. But also seeing you live an authentic life is so inspiring to me. And my purpose with Mind Over Finger is to help people creating a mindful, intentional, fulfilling life based on an understanding of their authentic self. And I think you embody that. And I'm just so excited that you're here today. Yeah, I'm so excited to be here as well. And yeah, it's quite an introduction, so I hope I live up to it.

I have no doubt. So Sasha, I like to ask my guests to tell us about themselves. So please share your journey with us and how that path unfolded for you. Yeah. So I'm a native Texan. I grew up in Texas in the 90s and 2000s, and I started music at a very early age. Um, in fact, I really started music before I can even form memories. Um, one of my first musical memories or really memories at all was sitting in my mother's

lap in church and, um, had, I had a hymnal in my hands and I realized that I could read the intervals, uh, somewhat. I didn't really know how the system worked. I didn't know what the notes were called, but I knew that, you know, if the note goes up by a certain amount, you know, I could sort of guess it if I knew the melody well enough. Um, and, uh, my entire family is musical. with the exception of my dad uh but he's uh he's good with sports and uh you know the hand-eye

coordination probably you know helped a little bit um and uh so yeah my i have five other siblings um we all played brass instruments um i'm the only one who was dumb enough to uh try to make a career out of it but um here we are so i guess it worked out um i picked up piano when i was five and then i quit when i was six and picked it back up in college um i quit because it was i thought it was kind of boring and no one really challenged me and i was stuck doing like very simple melodies for a long time then i get the trombone and i have the exact opposite problem where uh my second year of playing i get a band director who uh hands me bluebells of scotland which is one of the hardest trombone solos in the world um and uh it's like hey can you hit this note uh why don't you

try passing this here's some multiple tonguing exercises have at it you know um there's a funny story about uh how i actually learned triple tonguing which is uh that um he uh had just finished a lesson with another trombonist from the high school and he was joking about um you know how he told me basically all right here's how you work this metronome which was a giant box at the time um i told one of my students about that and they could not believe me um because i'd never seen that before anyway um but uh so he's like all right put this on 180 beats a minute and uh can you say tataka and I was like sure yeah and he's like all right so now do that twice all right now you have to do that at 180 beats a minute by tomorrow or you're kicked out of band and I was

very gullible back then and I 1000% believed him so I went home and I practiced about six hours and then I came back the next day and I was like I can do it at 220. Oh my goodness. So so it was it was exactly the right kind of teaching for me because um he knew he could challenge me and that I would respond to it. And so I got a pretty good early start to more advanced techniques than I think most people do. What was lacking as I went through high school and then got into college finally was the fundamentals because I hated playing slow. I hated anything to do with deliberate practice. And so it's kind of funny and karmic to end up on a podcast about mindfulness and practicing strategies and stuff.

I did pick that up along the way. But, you know, when I first got to college, I was not the, I was one of the most naive students I have ever met, both as a teacher and as a student. I didn't know what an excerpt was. I was just very disconnected

from the musical world. And there's a funny story about how I ended up getting my lucky shirt related to that. And I'll tell it very briefly. But so I didn't know how to actually apply for music school. And I think I sent my application and then the recording to different places.

And so I had paid my deposit, but they didn't receive the audition. So they didn't put me into up as a music major. And so I'm going back and forth when I get to school from the offices and the teachers and saying, why can't I sign up for classes? And they're like, who are you? And so long story short, I ended up being granted a last minute audition the day before classes. Um, because my teacher had looked up my all state records and saw that I got fourth chair overall that year. Um, and, uh, the thing is they couldn't put me into the system until, uh, the

next like business day, Monday. And so I actually didn't know where any of my classes were going to be. I didn't know I should even ask. And so I missed syllabus day and all of my first day of classes. And so I didn't get the dress code or when concerts were. So for my first concert with Wind Ensemble, I came dressed up in a yellow pinstripe shirt and khaki pants and black shoes. I got the shoes right. And everyone else was in suits and black dresses and things. And I just in Longview, that was normal to just dress in Sunday best. No one had like, you know, those kinds of like standard orchestral clothing or whatever. And one of my friends 15 minutes before saw me just sitting there warming up. It was like, you're not going on stage like that,

are you? And I was like, it's just a school concert. You know, it's whatever. Like I'll stick out a bit. Who cares? Right. And he says he hands me a trombone and he says, hold this and stay here. And so apparently he gets his car and drives to his apartment and comes back with his spare tux. And then he he hands it to me, grabs his trombone, walks on stage and says, change right now. And that's a good friend right there. Yes. The thing was, it was missing buttons from about chest and navel and I didn't have an undershirt. So the whole time I was T-rexing trying to hold the shirt together on risers. So that yellow pinstripe shirt has become my lucky shirt because of how hilarious the situation was and how far I've come since that moment. And I've won every competition and audition in that shirt. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. And it still fits, which is great.

I'm getting any one of those. yeah so just um basically i went to baylor for undergrad and then rice uh university for my the shepherd school of music for my grads uh studies and did a bunch of solo competitions ended up being very successful at those um i also did about 23 um professional orchestral auditions before i ended up winning the fort worth symphony job in 2016 um which was in my last year of grad school which was very lucky for me because i was about to have to take on a lot more students in the Houston area to pay my bills and was not looking forward to that. I love teaching, but I didn't want to teach 80 students having to commute in Houston traffic. Um, and, uh, so that was very

lucky of me. But, um, when I was in the Fort Worth symphony, um, it was, it was a really good sort of, um, testing ground for everything I had had learned. And I w I kind of, I stopped doing recitals and anything outside of playing, um, that job because I was very worried about getting tenure. Um, because I, um, at that time I, uh, like through, through college, I sort of, I was undiagnosed ADHD and, um, had, had a lot of issues with things like showing up on time with, um, practice schedules and preparation with other things that come with ADHD. Um, actually performing was not the problem, but, uh, everything auxiliary to doing the job, like showing up with the right stuff at the right time was very difficult. And by the time I got to Fort Worth Symphony, I knew

that I was ADHD. I had been sort of soft re-diagnosed because I had actually been diagnosed as a kid, then told I didn't have it as an adult because back then they thought that people just grew out of it, which is largely not true. And so I ended up actually almost not getting tenure because there was one concert where I showed up for the beginning of the concert, but not the last piece, which I was on because my colleagues had joked that, uh, you know, they were like, all right, see you tomorrow after the piece. And the, the director had said some things at the rehearse, the dress rehearsal that morning, it was a festival style thing. And basically implied that like, we needed to show up at the beginning of the concert, even though we normally would not.

And, um, I ended up just not checking the schedule to make sure that we were actually off. And, uh, And yeah, I wasn't there. So I was all the way at home. And I actually started retraining after that moment, because I thought for sure I was not going to get tenure. So I started I got some piano tuning tools, and I was going to learn to be a piano technician. And I ended up getting tenure, thankfully. And Miguel Harth Bedoya, the director in my tenure meeting was like, you're playing is very good. I love having you here. But just make sure you show up to all of the concerts and the pieces from now on. Um, and, and I actually, he's actually in the, at the Met right now, um, because, um, I, Danimar is, uh, is coming up and he's conducting that. And, uh, of course he brought that moment up immediately when he saw me. Um, but, uh, I, I like to tell people that, um, especially my students, because I think there's a misnomer that professionals have always been these sort of stellar students and these stellar players and have had everything going right for them and have never had a naive

moment, a mistake, um, a setback in their career. And at least in my case, that's very not true. And I suspect that's the case for many, many, many people. Um, and, uh, you know, so for the audition, um, I, I took the, uh, well, before that I took the LA, um, Philharmonic second trombone audition and didn't even make it through prelims. Um, so I did not expect to, uh, to win the Met audition. First of all, um, I didn't even know it was happening until the same friends who gave me the text contacted me. It was like, Hey, are you taking the Met principal audition? And I was like, Oh, they have, they're having an audition. And the deadline to submit was three days before he told me that. And, uh, so I very apologetically submitted my resume and they did

let me in. I was the 253rd resume. I know that because I was the very last one they accepted. so um so um I my goal for the preparation process was to just make it through prelims or at the very least show them that like basically play a memorable performance because even if I wasn't what they were looking for I wanted them to notice me to stand out from other people and to play well enough to at least get through prelims and so it was really more about proving to myself that I could do the preparation process correctly. So in my head, I said at the beginning of this process, I had about nine weeks that I was going to do it right. And for me, what that meant was to basically start with listening and making all of my musical decisions from the get go,

which is something that I had sort of done to some extent, but not to the extent I needed to for the audition, because it was largely opera excerpts that I had never played. I had never heard many of these pieces. And so that took me about maybe a week and a half of like, you know, three, four or five hour sessions of just listening and just trying to find these excerpts because, you know, opera is long and often it's hard to hear these things because they don't mix the brass up very high in the recordings compared to the singers. And yeah, so I would spend sometimes three hours trying to find a single excerpt. And, you know, once I found it, it was pretty easy to come up with what I wanted to do with it because um the thing about um opera playing

at least at the Met is that it's I think a lot more lyrical and a lot more uh vocal in style in a lot of cases even as a background player um and also a lot of the excerpts are when you have solos or when you're playing with the chorus and so my my background of playing solos um focusing on solo competitions actually really helped me there because I had learned how to craft a phrase and to play in different styles very well. And so I had a very easy time actually learning the excerpts once I knew how they went. And I think that helped me tremendously, first of all,

just because I'm getting ahead of myself a little bit here. But for the rest of my prep process, I mostly focused on timing and tuning. And basically just what I found out from this process with both of those things was that being absolutely certain of what the problem was and absolutely sure that I had fixed it, um, was incredibly helpful for consistency and for maintaining the progress I had made over weeks and weeks and weeks without actually coming back to a certain excerpt. And so what I mean by

that was, um, and I've talked about this a lot, but I made practice tracks, um, with a click track. um you know i auto i played uh i recorded the uh the excerpts and auto-tuned them so that it was in perfect equal temperament um and i had a four or like a two or four bar lead-in click track so i would be able to just play along with it of course in practice um with just a great tool for being able to easily hear tuning errors and timing errors i could turn the metronome off and say for something like William Tell, where a large issue is coming off of the two bar whole notes and then playing the lick on time. That's a big thing that people get kicked out for is not being able to keep time during rests and long notes. And I would play, say for that excerpt, I would play along

without the click track and just the auto-tuned track for hours. And then I would record with nothing but the lead in and see how well I could actually do that without with nothing. And that was my sort of audition test. So I was basically giving myself mock auditions every day, which I think helped. And I could see exactly where I was getting off and rushing or dragging. And I could hear each individual note and isolate them with with a digital audio workstation and slow it down and test exactly how far I was above or below the center of the pitch. And so it was very easy, actually, to, um, to polish these excerpts and to get them in, uh, the best audition shape I've ever been. Um, and, uh, so I was very confident in my work going in because, you know, there were

two weeks during the fourth, um, uh, or during, uh, the season in Fort Worth where I was playing such taxing rep that I just could not practice afterwards. It would have been dangerous for me, uh, for my chops. And, um, so I just took two weeks off in the middle of this nine week prep period. And, um, I came back and I had not lost a single bit of my practice, which was very surprising to me. Um, and, uh, so I get to the audition and, um, I don't play perfectly, but I'm pretty confident in my work. And I found that because I was so confident in the timing and tuning and just having the basics down, um, and the consistency that came with that, I could focus a lot more on the musicality on managing my nerves because i'm i'm the kind of person who

at least initially got so nervous that i would black out and my legs would shake and i could barely breathe so uh i'm not at all one of those naturally confident players although i have learned to be that way and um the semis round was the first time i had uh actually played a note perfect round in my life the finals was not note perfect but the solo was apparently what won me the audition according to the, the, uh, you know, the committee and, um, yeah, so I guess that's a little bit of a long-winded answer to your question, but, uh, yeah, I think, I think the thing that was really sort of surprising to me and, um, is that all of the solo preparation that I did and all the competitions, um, ended up being, I think the biggest advantage I had in that

particular audition. Um, because I think a lot of, um, students in particular get this idea that to win an audition, you need to just be good at excerpts and nothing else. And I really think you have to be a good musician first. And, you know, I think that I don't think it's really possible to be good at the excerpts, even if you're hitting all of the notes, if you don't really understand the music. And I'm not sure that just playing excerpts is the best way to learn how to be a good musician. Yes. Oh, I love this so much. I don't even want to talk. I just want to let you continue you've touched on so many points that i was very curious about but i want to go back to what you said at the beginning about your band teacher when you said he was the right

kind of teacher for you and i think that's so wonderful when someone gets to have that experience to have a teacher who's the right teacher for them and ignites a spark in them in in the way that really yields something long term and i'm sure you aim to be the same with your own students and I love what you said about creating a memorable performance. I'm going to put that on a sticker and have it nearby because yes, it's so right. It's exactly what one should aim to, um, what should aim for when they prepare for a performance or an audition, especially, I mean, not especially auditions as well. Um, and I love what you describe about the process. Correct me if there's an Instagram story about that or Instagram post about this. I think you made one, right?

Yes, there is. Yeah. I sort of did a very brief explanation of how to create these practice tracks because people have asked me about that a lot. And I intend to make a more full explanation of how I use them because there's actually quite a few tools that I have to use it in a digital audio workstation to get the full effects out of it. Because just having the tracks alone with like, if I were to submit, if I were to put mp3s out there, it wouldn't quite be the same thing. uh but uh yeah i'm very busy so i will get to it eventually i promise one thing that i've read about you is that intent you have to to have musicality in what you do and you post these fantastic i mean your youtube uh your instagram rather your instagram account is so wonderful

with these practice tips um and you also have the youtube channel with these beautiful videos of extremely musical, you know, renditions of arrangements that you've made. Just beautiful. I hope all of the listeners go and watch these videos. And you talked about the audition preparation where you attended to all of these fundamentals. And I think that a lot of listeners sometimes have an issue of how to transition between technical and musicality. What does that look like for you to practice musicality? Yeah, that's a great question because I think that there is a misnomer about the difference between musicality and technicality. I think a lot of people are taught that it's two sides of the same coin, which is close, but I think it's

actually just the same thing. And what I mean by that is that conceptually, I think a lot of people are taught to think of say a B flat three or whatever, um, is the same note, whether or not you're playing at forte or piano or accented or sustained or short or any number of different colors. Right. And a real shift in my thinking was to realize that it might be the same note from a music theory perspective, but it's not the same note at all from a physical perspective, The way that you produce that pitch in all of those different colors is entirely different. And so I realized that if I didn't decide how I was going to play a phrase musically and have a very clear image, aural image in my head of how it was going to go, then I

was actually never going to be truly consistent because I had, I was basically improvising the technique because the musicality is just a collection of colors, which translated into how you physically produce them. A different phrase is an entirely different physical exercise, right? Um, and so the same, the same set of notes with the same markings between two different players of two different phrases are two entirely different physical processes. And so of course I wasn't consistent because I was just not actually doing the same thing over and over again, which is what you need for consistency. So what I learned to do starting first in the process was to one, um, just listen to as many recordings of the piece as I could get my hand on, um, and

listen to pieces in similar styles. If I didn't, if I wasn't familiar with the style and, um, just develop opinions on what I liked and what I didn't like and learn the piece just through listening well enough to basically sing along with it and to know it almost memorized right um and uh the goal of that was to not only find out what i did like in other people's playing but what i didn't like which sometimes was actually more useful because um it's not always immediately clear why we like or dislike something in a person's playing but through listening to recordings that I either hated or loved many, many, many times, I sort of organically learned what they were doing to shape their phrases and the notes and how they thought of their own technique on a sort of,

you know, yeah, organic level, right? This is very, I wouldn't be able to put it into words, I guess. But I had a very clear idea of what I needed to do to achieve the things that I wanted to achieve in a piece and to not achieve the things I didn't want to do um or I think that makes sense yes absolutely and um and so it also altered the way I practiced quite a bit because besides just that sort of preparation period um it changed how I practiced from primarily focusing on the difficult licks to the difficult phrases um but it also gave me motivation to practice the the things that were more difficult long enough to actually achieve the musicality that I wanted out of them. And, you know, a good example is my first solo competition with the

International Tramon Festival, the Weehee competition, which is an Arthur Pryor piece, which is who wrote the Bluebells of Scotland solo that I actually started with. So I was very familiar with the style, but I had never really tackled it and like really conquered the challenges in, in those kinds of pieces. And, um, I remember there were two notes in the second section, just F G. And then it gets very technical, but I practiced those two notes for hours before I was satisfied with how they sounded because it, because I finally had meaning behind the phrases and the technical stuff actually became sort of fluff in a lot of ways. And it didn't carry the majority of the emotion, those two notes did. And so it became vital that I actually played it

exactly right with exactly the right amount of crescendo, the right articulation, the right pacing of the crescendo, diminuendo, everything, right? The tone, the vibrato had to be perfect. And I had exactly what I wanted in my head. And as it turns out, when you have that clear of a, an image in your head of what you want, it turns out that like, I think, I think I just found out that I was very lackadaisical about how I played things before that. And once I stopped being that way and started being more specific with how I played things, it was more consistent to the point where as I got closer to the audition to the to the competition, I would do a run through and I would almost have an out of body experience because it was so automatic for me that I would

think while I'm playing these crazy technical licks, how am I doing this? Like, I'm not actually controlling this. This is just automatic. And it was an experience that I had never truly had before. And I had heard about people going into that sort of flow state, but I didn't really know how to get there myself. And as it turns out, besides just the hours and hours and hours of work, it was taking this approach to tackling a piece of music. Yeah. I love that. It's very mind over finger. That's great. Perfect. And then I like to say that you start with the mind over finger so that it's so efficient and effective and the direction is so clear and the motivation is so clear. And then you work on it until it becomes finger over mind where you just

can let go. Right. I love that. But I absolutely love what you describe in terms of how a note, depending on the musicality, is going to be completely different than the same note in the theoretical context. So this is perfect. I know you're a really busy performer. You perform at the Met. You travel the world, play recitals. You also play in jazz ensembles. You teach a lot. How does that look like for you to maintain stamina when there's just such a busy schedule? Yeah. So one correction, I have played in jazz ensemble, singular. okay there we go yeah i've had exactly in terms of professional experience i have had exactly one uh concert with a big band which was amazing i hope i get more hopefully that will be plural

because it's very fun but uh yeah as far as maintaining my stamina um i um i i've learned that rest is very very very important um and not just physical rest but mental rest um sleep uh is very important of course um i don't get enough of it but um i try to at least um because um at least at the the level of playing that i'm at and with the amount of playing i i do i don't really have to maintain my physical fitness on the horn it just sort of stays there unless i take like two weeks off and then i start to feel like i'm out of shape um whereas it used to be if i took a day off i would i would be horrible at the instrument you know so it's just sheer number of hours helps with it quite a bit. But I used to schedule myself with my lessons and all my extra gigs

and flying out and the Met stuff to where each day wasn't necessarily all that busy in and of itself. But I never gave myself an entire day off where I could just not do anything if I didn't want to. And I would go months at a time without a single day off sometimes. And even if it was just one lesson. I learned sort of the hard way that, um, that I needed a total break from work for at least 24 hours to really fully recover mentally because I would get so burnt out and also moving to New York, I would get seasonal affective disorder quite badly. Whereas in Texas, that never happened. Um, and, uh, and so I also learned that I just need to be more deliberate about being outside whenever possible and exercising, um, during the winter months,

especially to just maintain, you know, my brain chemistry so that I can function. Because when I first got to New York during the winter, I was mildly depressed and didn't want to do anything really except just sleep and watch TV or play video games. And it's not to say I didn't get stuff done because I did, but it was much more of a struggle than I think it was when I was in a sunnier, uh, state at a lower latitude. Um, and, uh, yeah, as far as like the scheduling goes, you know, um, that is sort of, uh, an evolving administrative, uh, process. Um, what I try to do nowadays is, um, is just to prioritize, uh, how much time I'm going to dedicate to practicing and a given day and a given week. And just basically, okay, I have

five hours, I have 10 hours that I'm going to practice this week, because that's just how busy I am or whatever. And then I, you know, look at what I have to work on. And depending on what it is, say, like, for example, in 2019, I did the Tchaikovsky competition, while we were also preparing the ring cycle at the Met. And that all of those things took up quite a bit of my time. So I was basically, I was practicing in the breaks between, uh, you know, in rehearsals and shows, um, just going to the practice rooms of the Met and practicing whatever I could in those 15, 20, 30 minutes. And, um, when I got home, I often just collapsed because I didn't have any more energy. And so, um, I guess to summarize, um, I tried to be both efficient and also practical

and also prioritize rest. And it can be very difficult to do all of those things. Um, but I, I have stopped trying to let perfection sorry about the the sirens that is New York life yes uh I've stopped trying to I've stopped beating myself up over whether or not I can be perfect with how I use my time and whether or not I'm getting the ideal number of practice hours and I just try to do the best with what I have because that's the reality of being a working musician and And, you know, sometimes that means I do just a five minute warm up before I practice something or sometimes I'll skip my warm up entirely being perfectly honest and just go straight into something. Because, again, I'm kind of always in shape these days. And, yeah, I don't know.

But it's it's it is very difficult to fit everything in. And I will admit that it constantly feels like I'm behind on administrative tasks, on things I need to practice and on rest. But, you know, it's something that I am constantly evolving and trying to work better, work into a better system for myself. So I'll let you know when I finally perfect that and I do everything right. Yes, please do. I think that everyone is always looking for that answer. Right. and I know you're a really busy teacher in addition to being a performer and I think that your students are really lucky to have access to your expertise and that's something that they talk about where they spend so much time in the practice room that's something I hear from young

musicians a lot and they don't feel like they have that much progress even though they put all of this time inside of the practicing so I think it's really inspiring to hear how mindful you are in your approach to practicing and this way someone can walk in the practice room and have efficient work and walk away feeling like they've made some progress. Do you have some specific advice you could give students in how they can, you know, get more bang for their buck inside of the practice room? You bet I do. Yes. I have several thoughts on this subject. I could talk for hours on this alone. But so I think, like I said, I did not start out as the most efficient practicer. I always just did high, fast and loud. So first of all, right off the bat, all of your teachers are

correct. Slow practice, practicing your fundamentals. That is one of the most important things you can do because you need to just be you need to raise your fundamental base level. It's kind of how I think of it, because, yeah, you can practice a piece from here and raise it up to here, but you know, then if you can get your base level to here, then you're already starting higher than where you would otherwise. So I always try to prioritize fundamentals and get at least the basics done every day. Um, and then in the practice room, um, I ran into several ruts in my playing. And, um, also I just overbooked myself constantly. Like I said, I did a lot of auditions and competitions. So I was flying out at least every month to go do something during

school. Um, so I had to be efficient. And so, um, one of the things I did was just to really actually use my tuner and metronome and to really, um, prioritize you. If I had a tool that I knew would help to use it, use my mirror and actually look at it. Because I think a lot of times I, what I'll see in my lessons is a student will get a metronome out or they'll get a mirror out and they won't actually be looking at it. They think they are, but they're just not. Um, so being mindful of how much you are actually using the tools at your disposal that, you know, will help recording myself helped quite a bit. Um, and then there's this sort of practice method that I think pretty much everyone gravitates to initially, which is to start at the beginning of a piece

to play along. Oh, I made a mistake. Let's go back and try again. Oh, I made a mistake. And just to hammer that out until they can move on. And it's such an inefficient way to practice. And so what I started doing was, um, big picture, small picture, big picture. When I was learning something, I would just go through every single note, even if it took me three hours to actually read through something. And, you know, initially my sight reading was horrible. So it would actually take me that long to read through a solo sometimes. And once I had played every note, I had a much better idea of what the challenges would be throughout the whole piece. And then I could bracket them off and practice those specific moments and plan when I was going to practice

them and then do a run through at the end of every practice session to put all my practice into context. Um, another big shift I made in my practicing, um, was to be much more deliberate about what goals I actually had for a given practice session and to stop thinking of it as to stop thinking of practice as a function of time, um, and sort of percentage, uh, increases in how good I could play um and I changed that into basically thinking of my playing as a whole and the challenges I needed to conquer as a very large but very um as like a set of distinct challenges that I needed to to accomplish but once I once I solved them they were solved forever right and I thought of it this way it's like okay when I was a beginner band student I couldn't hit

a high B flat. Now I can hit a high B flat any day. That is a challenge that is solved. I never have to practice that note just for the sake of being able to hit the note again. Right. And so for other things like being able to multiple tongue, being able to have flexibility or practicing certain excerpts or things or whatever, it's like if I just missed a note in a piece, that was a challenge. And so I would go back one note before and practice getting to that note and fixing it. And once it was fixed, as long as I can play it like three or 10 times in a row, I would consider that completely done. That's one of the hundred thousand things I needed to fix, but it was much more motivating to, to think of it as just slowly chipping away

at a finite list, as opposed to this infinite percentage, small increase kind of mindset that I think we're, a lot of us are taught to have. Um, and so sometimes I would go into a practice room and think to myself, I am going to go in here and I'm not coming out until this one small issue or one lick or whatever is solved. And so sometimes that would take me 30 minutes and I'd be done. Sometimes that would take me three, five hours. And then, you know, once it was done though, the next day I could do it. And, um, and so I think that's a big, uh, that's probably a big reason why students might go into the practice room so much and not come out with much progress is because they're practicing too many things at the same time. And they need to be more focused

and more specific with what they are actually trying to improve. Um, even if it's just two notes, if you fix two notes in your practice session, those are two notes you never have to work on again. And I think thinking of it that way to me is much more manageable and it produced much more fruitful practice. Oh, that is so, so, so, so good. I have one last practicing question for you. And it's something that I read on your website and you wrote that when you practice, you use the acknowledge, validate the negative thought counter with realistic optimism, move on method. And when I saw that, I thought, yes, I can not agree with this more. Can you speak to that a little bit, please? Yeah, of course. So I used to be the kind of practicer who the mind

less practicer who would get so angry at myself in a practice room that I think at one point I through a stand. Um, it was my stand. So, you know, to be fair, but, uh, yeah. And, uh, I developed so much tension in my body and just negative thoughts that I just had a shift, I think around my sophomore year or junior year where I was like, I need to be more deliberate with how I process my emotions, um, and to, and how I manage them because this is not working for me because it was physically painful, like with how tense I was. And, um, and so, um, I, I don't remember exactly where I heard of this method specifically. I think it was some masterclass, um, that I had at Baylor, but, um, you know, I started

paying attention and, and prioritizing actually taking the time to address all of the negative thoughts I had. And it really started to, at first I thought it was kind of like this sort of woo woo, like, uh, like, okay. sort of fluff thing that I didn't need. I don't need to do that. And once I started taking it seriously and I started practicing it, it really revealed just the true depth of how much I beat myself up in the practice room. And the kinds of things I would say to myself were things that I would never say out loud to any other human in a million years because they were so negative.

And I think a lot of musicians fall into that category. Um, and I think that might've been one of the best things I did for myself is just to learn, to be kinder to myself and to, and to just accept, um, yes, that failure is part of the process, but that I also just that I was a, uh, that I, I don't know, I guess that I was not ever going to be perfect. I think that was part of being kinder to myself and that it was okay to have bad days. It was okay to have bad moments mentally, but I needed to be better overall and to just be kinder to myself and to, um, use this method to just sort of replace these thoughts and build habits of more positive thinking. Um, a really good example of how this really helped me was that the, the Met, um,

audition, because I was very deliberate about doing this during my practice. And one of the thoughts I had was I'm probably going to see some very famous people at this audition because it's the kind of audition that would attract very, uh, you know, high level players. And that could make me nervous. It probably would make me nervous. And so my counter to that was those people may be good players, but they can have bad days and you might have a good day. They might have sounds that the audition committee does not want. They might just not be as good at an excerpt as you are because there's no reason. They are humans. They are just humans, just like you are. They are not supernatural. And so if you can put in the kind of work... Actually, the way I put it,

I had a reminder in my phone that popped up every morning for years. That was, if you practice like a professional, you will start to sound like one. And so I, I reasoned that if I just put in the right kind of work and I was serious about it, I was mentally like, um, engaged in all of my practice that that level of effort would, uh, show up in my playing. And it did. Um, and that includes the mental aspect as well, because, uh, I was, that was one of the most nerve wracking auditions of my life.

and i was actually shaking but i learned to manage it well enough to have it not show up in my playing um and uh there's a there's a um uh i'm trying to remember the author of the five rings it's like a uh this japanese samurai who like has like i think the all-time record for most number of battles and and people killed and like single-handedly and like he survived all of them and stuff like um there's like movies about this guy i think um mizaki i don't know don't don't quote me on that but anyway he talks about like how did he train how does he get that good and he's like you have to train like every single training session should be uh you should act as if it's it is as life or death as an actual battle and i think applying that to music not necessarily

the life or death part but just that you should you should practice with the amount of seriousness that you perform at, if you want to be able to perform at that level. And truthfully, I just was very lackadaisical and non-effortful in my practice for a very long time. And until I changed that, my playing also did not reflect any kind of really polished qualities or advanced musicality or things like that. And frankly, that's the problem a lot of, you know, students have almost universally, like that's an issue I run into even for the students who are good. I think there's always a level of, um, professionality that I feel like they can go down a little bit farther. And that is not the same thing as perfectionism. Um, it's, it's, uh, sort of a dedication to

the craft in a way that is, is scary. It's, it's saying, uh, there's another book I really liked, which is I'm here to win by Chris McCormick. And it's saying, when you're preparing an audition, I'm here to win, not I'm here to do my best because hidden in that statement is the idea that your best might not be good enough. Whereas if you set your goal as I am going to win, it will be crushing if you don't. But to set that as your goal, you have to prepare in every way you possibly can to achieve that success. And I think that's just, there's just a depth to that, that I think most people have not fully seen. And I wouldn't say even I have fully realize that depth, but, um, it's something that I, I, I guess, meditate on and, uh, think

about like, um, a lot in my, my own, uh, practice and my own ambitions even now. So this is so great. I mean, this is, I think an episode people are going to have to listen to several times. You have such great wisdom in there. I'm going to do a one 80 on the topic here. And, um, so Sasha, you're a vocal advocate of the transgender community and you have such great information on your website I hope that all of the listeners go on your website you share great resources and you help provide so much information and answer so many questions about gender identity and gender expression and one of the things that you talk about in is allyship and I think that this so important. Can you speak to that a little bit? What is it like? What would you like people to

know about being an ally right now in the classical music community, but also in the world at large? Yeah, that is a great question that, again, I could talk about for hours. I think one of the biggest things that I see over and over and over again, as I have come out and started moving through the world as a transgender woman is that there are lots of well-meaning people who inadvertently, one of the biggest mistakes they make in their allyship is actually, it's not the misgendering. It's not the getting the name wrong. It's not saying something that's a little bit awkward. It's never the language because frankly, I think most trans people care way more about whether or not we have rights than whether or not you're using the correct language for us.

it's mostly an issue of like are you trying right and are you willing to correct yourself and respect like my identity because that's like it is in some ways the bare minimum but that is um sometimes a lot to ask of some people but that's again that's not the main issue the main thing that i have personally experienced is actually ostracization through a fear of saying the wrong thing or doing the wrong thing or um being offensive um through ignorance um and also just a lack of willingness and and also just a knowledge of how to combat that ignorance um and uh you know like i've heard more than one trans person say this statement but we weren't born with the knowledge of like the correct language or the correct um you know uh

way to to sort of interact with other trans people that is those are things that we had to learn And we I learned them through being in the trans community, through like just finding online spaces primarily, but also through as I sort of as I approached the date where I realized that I was trans, which was in 2020, late 2020. I was looking around on my friend group and realized I had acquired quite a few LGBTQ plus friends. Um, and, uh, you know, I think some of it is just being the kind of person who a, say a trans person would want to talk to. And so that's why I say ostracization is actually one of the worst things that I think people do, even though I think they're doing it in a sort of well-meaning place most of the time um and uh like the ones who want to be allies in other words right because if you don't allow yourself to make those mistakes and be an imperfect human around

a person and if you're not you don't have the humility to acknowledge that you probably will make mistakes and that that's just something you will have to deal with you know emotionally basically because i it is pain it is embarrassing and painful i've made mistakes myself with some of my friends um but you know if that if you're not willing to put in that effort just to be able to include uh trans people in in the group in the conversation in whatever you know social situation you're in um then you're not going to learn these things you're not going to get the correction you're not going to just learn who trans people are as people as opposed to a a demographic um um because um you know even for me i i had never met a single trans woman before i um realized i

was one and then as soon as i did i started meeting lots of them and i don't some of that is sort of intentional but it's i became the kind of person that a trans woman would talk to and and i was like i said i had lots of queer friends before that anyway so i was definitely like an ally um but there's a whole joke about that oh yeah i'm not trans i'm just an ally just a real good ally. That's all. But, uh, yeah. So, I mean, I, I would say that's the biggest, biggest thing. Um, but other than that, um, I think standard advocacy things also apply. Um, because like I said, uh, our rights are under attack in many, many, many places. If you live in the, if you're listening in the UK, um, I, uh, you know, I will try to avoid talking about politics too directly,

but please, you know, call everyone, call your senators, call your, you know, prime ministers, whatever send in letters don't support people who are vocally uh extremely vocally anti-trans um because one they tend to also align with uh groups like neo-nazis um it's a funny coincidence there um but uh just a trend i have observed and uh yeah just you know be aware of like the politics going on in your own city in your state in your whatever and just be active be active enough to sign a petition to, you know, go to a rally, if you see one nearby to, um, at the very least to vote, you know? Um, and, uh, you know, I think, I think that's, I don't know. I think a lot of people are already doing that. Um, but I would say now it is especially necessary because right

now I think for, um, the, the anti-trans movement is very big because we are the new boogeyman of, uh, people who need a boogeyman for their politics. And, um, it's, uh, it will eventually change. I think it'll be the exact same at some point, like, um, the gay rights movement where it's just sort of treated as normal as a fight that has been finished. It's not exactly, but you know, it's, I think we will get there and there'll be a new like boogeyman to defend. But right now I think it's largely trans people. So, uh, if you are not aware of any of the, the, backlash to the trans rights movement, you should try to find some news about it and try to find some advocacy groups and just get on some mailing lists and just, you know, throw your voice in to

be heard because what we need is numbers and voices to be heard in support of us. Yeah. And I'm going to recommend that the listeners really go to your website because, as I said, you did such a great job providing information for people to understand gender identity a little bit better and how, you know, any questions that they might have, I feel is answered on your websites. It's such a great resource. So thank you for putting it there. And I feel that it's so important for anyone who's out there

to see you as an example that maybe they might identify with you and never had someone that they identified with before. So I feel like it's so wonderful that you are really leading by example and living your truth. thank you um and i have to actually give a lot of credit to the website to uh my friend elizabeth harriman um she's playing on the les mis broadway tour right now um so hi elizabeth if you are

listening to this um she's amazing at what she does um and uh she helped me to put all those resources together and package them so nicely so thank you i'm glad it's helpful for people um and uh yeah i'm glad to to be able to be that source of information and inspiration for people um so um yeah follow me on instagram and stuff sasha i know that you have to you have to leave now right do you want me to wrap wrap things up soon yeah okay so i think i could just wrap it up okay oh i could go for two more hours with you though i feel like there's so much i i would love to to cover and cover that topic a little bit longer as well but i i will let you go um so let me see what can i uh what

can i say um oh i'm gonna take my notes out dasha there's one video in particular on your instagram that i love and i'm going to share that link in the show notes with all of the other links and it's you performing a piece you wrote called identity and i would like to conclude our conversation by citing your words because i think it's a message that is so important for all of us to hear or be reminded of as musicians but also as as human beings trying to fulfill our destinies out there in the world and you say in that this section of the piece you share on the video is a representation of the exuberance of finally letting go of all of the masks that hide us from ourselves and living according to one's own joys and principles and desires rather than chasing

after the acceptance of someone else's ill-conceived idea of us. I just love these words. I wish that for all of us. I think you're such an incredible role model for anyone trying to live their life more authentically. And I thank you for sharing your message with us today. I wish we had three more hours. Maybe you can come back at some point. I would love to come back. And those words sound so great coming out of your mouth. So thank you for sharing them. Sasha, I'm going to put the links for listeners to reach you on Instagram, on YouTube, on your amazing website. So thank you so much again. Of course. Happy to be here. Bye. And there you have it. Thank you so much for joining me today. If you enjoyed this episode,

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