The Mind Over Finger Podcast - 207 Zlatomir Fung: Flow, Fundamentals, and Fearless Performance

Episode Date: November 1, 2024

In this episode, I sit down with cellist Zlatomir Fung to explore the art of practice, mental resilience, and building a sustainable life in music. We discuss: The importance of mastering fundamentals and balancing them with complex repertoire How to achieve flow state on stage through curiosity and deliberate preparation Strategies for managing intrusive thoughts and staying grounded in high-pressure moments Insights into creating a fulfilling, purpose-driven career in music Tune in to gain practical tips and inspiration from Zlatomir's journey.   Are you ready to take your playing and career to the next level and create a life that feels purposeful and joyful? Let's connect and explore how personalized coaching can support your journey. Click here to schedule your free consultation, and let's start turning your goals into reality. Book your free consultation with Renée HERE Download the transcript from this episode HERE     MORE ABOUT ZLATOMIR FUNG Website:  https://www.zlatomirfung.com/ YouTube channel:  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuZCNT8-PCgY1Md-ZzjvAUQ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/zfungcello Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/zfungcello   Mind Over Finger Click www.mindoverfinger.com/coaching to book your free consultation with me. Visit MindOverFinger.com for my online courses as well as free resources on peak performance. Grab my free workshops and PDF downloads by going to www.mindoverfinger.com/resources. Connect: https://www.youtube.com/@MindOverFinger https://www.facebook.com/mindoverfinger/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/mindoverfinger https://www.instagram.com/mindoverfinger/     THANK YOU: Most sincere thank you to composer Jim Stephenson who graciously provided the show's musical theme:  Concerto #1 for Trumpet and Chamber Orchestra – Movement 2: Allegro con Brio, performed by Jeffrey Work, trumpet, and the Lake Forest Symphony, conducted by Jim Stephenson.

You're listening to The Mind Over Finger Podcast, episode number 207. Welcome to The Mind Over Finger Podcast, where we dive into the world of mindful music making, peak performance, and crafting a purpose-driven life and career. I'm your host, violinist, certified performance and life coach for musicians, and your guide to unlocking your full potential, Dr. René-Paul Gaultier. Hi everyone, today I'm thrilled to bring you a conversation with the incredible Zlatomir Fung, a cellist whose artistry and insights are nothing short of inspiring. Zlatomir burst onto the scene as the first American in four decades and the youngest musician ever to win first prize at the

International Tchaikovsky Competition cello division. Subsequent accolades, critical acclaim, and standing ovations at performances around the world have established him as one of the preeminent cellists of our time. Astounding audiences with his boundless virtuosity and exquisite sensitivity, Zlatomir has already proven himself a star among the next generation of world-class musicians. In the 24-25 season, Zlatomir gives recitals in New York City, Boston and St. Louis,

as well as appearances at the Aspen and Ravina festivals. He joins the orchestras in Rochester, San Antonio, and Billings, among others. Internationally, he performs in Europe and Asia with the London Philharmonic, Barcelona Symphony, and others, and offers a recital tour of Italy. In March 2025, Signum Records releases Zlatomir's debut album, a collection of opera fantasies and transcriptions for cello and piano. Zlatomir served as artist-in-residence with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra for the 23 and 24 season. Recent debut appearances include the New York Philharmonic, Cleveland Orchestra, Orchestre National de Lille, and BBC Philharmonic, as well as Baltimore, Dallas, Detroit, Seattle, and Kansas City symphonies.

Zlatomir made his recital debut at Carnegie Hall in 2021 and was described by Backtrack as one of those rare musicians with the Midas touch. He quickly envelopes every score he plays in an almost palpable golden aura. He was a Borletti Bhutani Trust Fellowship winner in 2022, and he joined the faculty of the Juilliard School this year as cello professor. In our conversations, Vladimir takes us through his journey from discovering the cello at age three to performing worldwide and joining the faculty at Juilliard.

We dive into everything from building a foundation with the basics to finding flow on stage, balancing the demands of a music career, and even creating his own compositions. Zlatomir's wisdom on maintaining mental clarity, embracing challenges, and cultivating joy in every performance is a must here. So get ready for a conversation filled with actionable insights and inspiration that is going to resonate with you, whether you're a seasoned performer or just starting on your musical path. And no need to take notes. Just click the link in the show notes to access the full summary and transcript of this episode. Let's go to the show.

Zladimir Fong, it's so great to have you on the show. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Vladimir, you're the youngest to win the Tchaikovsky competition back in 1999. You're playing all over the world. I think you're doing the complete Bach-Charlotte-Suiten concerts very soon. You're an advocate of contemporary music. You have a debut album coming out very soon, right, in January. And you're also on faculty at the Juilliard School.

Can you share with us the journey of getting there, how your artistic path has unfolded? Sure, certainly. So I was born into a family of mathematicians. Both my parents studied pure math. And I have three siblings, and I'm the second oldest. And at some point in our lives, we all played a musical instrument. And my older sister, who's three years older than me, played the violin. And I started to play the cello when I was about three. And at the time, my family was living in Corvallis, Oregon on the West coast. And there was a wonderful cello teacher in town, um, who became my first teacher. Uh, her name is, uh, and gravy. And, uh, I studied the Suzuki method with her or I think close to seven years or six years, six or seven years. And, um, that's how I got my

start with classical music. And then I think I got more into playing the cello and studying the cello as a craft and collaborating with people in more serious settings. When I was around 12 or 13. That's around the time when I started going to summer festivals and playing a lot more chamber music. And yeah, since then, I've just been, you know, I've been chugging along, practicing as much as I can and doing different projects. And yeah, I'm very lucky to be where I am today. And I'm very lucky to be able to say that I have a life in music. So that brings me a lot of gratitude every day. Thanks for sharing this. Yeah, I would say you've been chugging along fine, for sure. i've loved following you on instagram you have i mean first of all you're playing is so wonderful

but i've loved watching all of those videos of your process of how you practice how you prepare with us and one of the things that i would love to hear from you is how you balance practicing the basics with all of the performance repertoire that you have to you know keep on the back burner or the frown burner? Definitely, definitely. So yeah, I think my love for like the fundamentals was really instilled by one of my most important teachers, Richard Aaron. And he was always drilling me and my fellow students to practice scales and arpeggios. And he has these very elaborate, um, uh, warmup routines that he compiles from different sources, uh, like different etudes and studies that, uh, other cellists have, have written. And I was always

really intrigued by that. And I found the systematic quality of it, um, quite, quite stimulating and inspiring. Um, so, you know, today I still try to try to begin, um, every session with the cello uh in that way sort of just connecting to the fundamentals of of what it means to be a string player which you know for me is is sense of physical contact a physical relationship with the string feeling that um that um we're very lucky as string players to have this kind of philosophical and really intimate relationship with our sound where we really can manipulate every aspect of it and it can pour directly from our bodies uh with no with really no intermediary um action uh so that that you know that for me is kind of uh that's a that's a

touchstone for me in my in my practicing and i feel like that that sense of connection that sense of just like unity with the instrument feeling like uh it's an extension of me that that for me is like the most important thing to establish at the beginning of of my uh time with the instrument every day before i move on to things that will be more you know demanding um but where i need to maintain that sense of of connection and i agree with this is i feel the same for me that the work spent on the fundamentals extends in the work the time spent on repertoire in terms of saving time and just the ability to execute right away yeah absolutely i actually i often um tell my students and you know this is kind of an oversimplification but i feel that maybe it's a helpful oversimplification

simplification um i tell them that uh the the improvement happens in the warm-up um and the implementation of the improvement happens in the repertoire uh so like if you're working on something like let's say you're working on your intonation or you're working on developing a better legato in your bow changes that's something that you can really work on in very simple exercises like scales and arpeggios exercises where other difficulties other aspects of the playing that are uh you know present are less uh challenging so you can really focus on the simple um the simple goal that you're trying to address and um then you implement that in the more complex repertoire that you play. So that for me is sort of like my approach to thinking about

improving aspects of my playing and my practice. I love that. I cheated a little bit for this interview. I reached out to a former client of mine who's a big fan of yours. And I asked him if he had any questions for you. And he sent me something that I really love because one of the things that come up for me when comes up for me when I listen to you play is that everything feels or looks so easeful and that his question was centered around that so I'm going to pull it up and and read he was talking about how um you did these videos on Instagram about the 60 the 60 études du jeune violon celliste the feuillard and it's good for me that I can pronounce this the right way, where you were showing how you work on those fundamentals on these etudes and

how you demonstrate them with musicality, clarity, and above all ease. So I think that we can all perceive that from your playing. And his question was that, how do you take ease that you have in the basics to the more challenging performance repertoire? And that's one of the questions that I hear so much from people all over the world is how to take ease that we have in the easier things and translate that into the more difficult repertoire. Yeah, well, thanks. I really appreciate that question. And I also I'm grateful to all my followers on Instagram that enjoyed that project because

that was kind of a it was a funny project for me. It was like a passion project. those those 60 etudes are um uh like some of my favorite short etudes uh warm-ups for cello because they're each no longer than like three or four lines they last like under a minute but each of them is very targeted and very specific um and i did that project i guess it was like more than two years ago at this point and it was supposed to take me 60 days because i wanted to post one etude a day but then like halfway through the book they started getting harder and i had to practice them more so it ended up being prolonged to like nine months or something um so anyway i

was grateful to all my all my followers for their patience um but yeah you know that that question of like the ease and the basics versus like the the more challenging stuff i i always feel like um i guess for me one of one of the most interesting ways that i've come to to think about complexity uh in the music that we play is like i i remember i once had this thought that like nothing is really hard in isolation things become challenging when it's just a lot of simple things that are all together at once yeah and what we're asked to do like 10 simple things at once then it becomes somehow demanding you know and um so you know i had this thought that like well if all of those quote unquote simple things, you know, nothing is really truly simple if you want

to do it at the highest level, but like things that are, that you can really wrap your head around, like, you know, having a relaxed left hand or, you know, just changing the bow at a slow speed, things like that, things that you can practice in isolation. If we can really develop a sense of true comfort with those building blocks, with those small units, then, and then in our practice gradually combine them like in a kind of a combinatorial way so like if we're first practicing a scale where we're thinking just about bow changes and then we practice a scale where we're thinking just about intonation then the next step is to practice a scale where we try to think about both of those two things and then ultimately when we play music you know they're like 10 11 you

know infinite number of things that we have to hold in our minds and some of them are are more in the foreground than others, but having a really strong basis for all of those and having a relationship to all of those building blocks, I feel gives one a sense of confidence and comfort in approaching a more challenging work or more challenging passage. So for me, like when I'm dissecting a very challenging work of music or I'm learning something for the first time, I always try to approach it from that angle where I ask myself, what are the, what are the simple aspects that I can first isolate and then work on? And then how can I build this back up to its full form, which is, you know, complex, but actually just a lot of simple things stacked together.

Yeah. I love that. Yeah. One of my favorite concept in, in teaching and coaching is that idea of beginner's mind and monitoring these fundamentals. And I feel that it's true, right? If we're struggling with a passage, I think that a lot of time our instinct is to go look for what's complicated and we forget to actually go back to the basics and how's my posture? Am I breathing? Things like this. So I love what you're sharing about this, paying attention to these fundamentals mentals and the things that are simple or appear simple and yeah, to combine them together like this. You have a really busy, really busy performance schedule. And I would love to hear what that preparation looks like for you, especially when it comes to the mental well-being

and that psychological preparation that goes into showing up on stage. definitely yeah so you know the the for me it's everything is really just a work in progress you know and i always tell my tell my my students too i was like um i have such a great time you know sharing my thoughts with them but i always remind them that like whatever i'm saying is just my what i'm grappling with on my own you know it's it's i find i personally find it you know really it's a very stimulating challenge but it's very challenging to um to always um or to you know to feel like every time you show up on stage you know to really give your best and um so but you know i i feel you know there's there's so many complex feelings about that because it's also

there's so much gratitude for being able to play as frequently as i do and i know that there are a lot of people that would really love to play as much as i am having the opportunity to play so feel you know like i want to make the most of it and um yeah you know for me the challenge actually one of the things i've been working on recently is uh um i guess getting a little bit more uh a little better at at uh planning in advance like in my preparation because there have been a couple of close calls in in the past couple years where um i kind of for one reason or another perhaps overcommitted myself in terms of the amount of music that i had to prepare in a short period of time and i found myself toward the end like either just totally burnt out or um feeling really

underprepared which is you know a really unfortunate feeling to have um where you feel like you just didn't have enough time to put in the work that you wanted to and it wasn't up to what you felt that you can do with that particular piece or or that particular opportunity or whatnot um and uh yeah so so for me like there are two aspects of that one is like sort of learning how to more um you know in a in a in a healthier way set boundaries about like what kinds of things i'm accepting uh and like not over committing myself but then also just about looking ahead and thinking about okay how do i you know i'm preparing for the concert that's this weekend But maybe I can spend, you know, just 20 minutes a day on the concert for next weekend because it's a piece that I don't know as well or it's a piece that I've never played before, which is something that I always find particularly challenging.

So, yeah, that's something that I that I've been working on recently and it's still a work in progress. But I think the past couple of months I've been doing a little bit better than I I have been in the past. So still working on it. Yeah. Planning is really important. how about the that psychological aspect of things yeah like um well you know that question reminds me of something interesting that that you know that i've actually been struggling with um the past year and a half it was something that was that was pretty pretty new to me and it came as quite a surprise it actually happened um

last summer when I was it was in one of those very complex periods for me where I was playing kind of a lot of different repertoire and I had to prepare a lot and I was practicing a lot and I felt like I was really um you know trying to give all my all of myself to the project and then when the performance came um I had this very um unusual it had never happened to me before where in the middle of the performance uh i started to have like intrusive thoughts that were taking me outside of the music and you know i in the past you know had performances where i was let's say distracted or i felt like i wasn't quite there maybe half there and that's always a unfortunate feeling but this was different because this was somehow like almost malicious like it was

like a part of me was like like basically trying to talk to me and say like you know you're just you can't do this you're unprepared you're you know it's not enough for you and that was a that was a real um i think that was a really pivotal moment for me in my relationship to the way i prepare for um prepare for performances psychologically because um i started worrying like well what if i what if i'm never able to you know play a performance again without having these thoughts like what if i'm if i'm constantly going to just be having this internal dialogue that's taking me out of the music what if i can never get into that flow state which is for me the reason to be a musician like when you're in that loving state where it's just time there's

no sense of time and it's just just the experience of the music um so after that I started um I had to well you know I feel like this this was a positive step for me but I started doing like a meditation practice before every performance and uh that was a very um I think now that's a that's a very important part of the way that that i relate to every performance i give just like feeling like i have a little bit of time to myself on that on the day of the concert to really clear my mind and let myself just exist for a little bit um and you know i since since that that initial um scare last summer you know i've had i've had performances where i've had again like sort of unfortunate things were that have taken me out but I've also had performances where

I really was in the flow for for the entire time and so I feel now that I have you know this relationship to my performance where it like getting into that flow state is also a kind of a practice for me where it's like every time I step on stage I'm really trying to to do the best I can with that, with being present throughout the entirety of the performance. So yeah, that's been a challenge for me recently, but very stimulating. Thank you so much for sharing this because I get the impression that it doesn't matter who you are and how big your career is. I would say that a lot of us experience this, but it's still something that we don't talk a lot about and therefore it's very isolating if you feel like you're the only musician

with intrusive thoughts and i feel that it impacts uh you know really fantastic musicians in the way that's very negative so i want to thank you for for sharing this and when you're talking about that state flow one of the questions i hear the most often is like how does one get into flow. What does that look like for you? And I know that it's very difficult to explain and describe. And if anyone had the perfect formula, then they would be very rich right now. But if you know, what are the elements that facilitate that entry into flow state for you? Would you mind sharing with us? definitely definitely so yeah i found you know what's interesting is you know especially in the

past year as i've observed sort of which performances uh you know after the fact of course but like which performances i've been able to be really present and which i which performances i haven't been able to be as present i find that there's kind of a correlation between um the sort of preparation that i did for the concert uh it might not necessarily be how much i put into it but it was the kind of attention that i gave to the music and so if i had to sum up like what i feel for me personally helps me get into a flow state it's a kind of preparation and practice that really prioritizes like a curiosity and a great attention to detail about a lot of specificity like specifics of what's happening in the music um but also at the same

time like that you have that curiosity for how the music is unfolding before you you know that you're simultaneously participating but then also experiencing observing and listening and that's kind of i feel like that being pulled in those two directions or it's not really a pulling but it's sort of like the the mutual the coexistence of those two states is sort of what allows us to get into that i i would say like an altered state of consciousness because you know typically when we're just out in the world we're either very in our head thinking about something and not paying attention to what we're seeing or hearing uh my example is like if i'm walking on the street in new york i'm tuning out you know what's maybe i'll occasionally watch for traffic but like i don't

want to focus on the street noise you know for example um or or like we're very attuned to like what's going on and and that's all that's happening but like when we play there's somehow that dual awareness where where we're extremely here in the heart and the head and but then also there's a part of us that's outside of ourselves observing um so yeah just um going back to the point i was making about attention like the way that i practice if i feel like i'm truly um if i have a lot of of moments in the music where i have aspirations for how i want it to to be um like or or a certain kind of emotional connection, like to say to myself, like, I really love this moment. I want to express this kind of feeling here. I really want to go for this, you know, those kinds of

things. And then to have sort of a roadmap in, in your internal experience of playing through the piece, performing the piece where you're, it's like an abstract journey where you're constantly finding your attention is, is being drawn to different things that are exciting. I feel like that's the recipe for like for me for having a a real sense of a flow in a performance i love that beautiful relationship between the the execution and the experience where i feel that when we're tuning into to you know how things are unfolding in a way we're releasing control at the same time we're fully in control because we're executing it but there's a part of us that releases perhaps the unnecessary control i think that's what i'm trying to say

yes absolutely and you know that that that feeling of like simultaneously you know doing it and being in control but also letting go and allowing yourself to just experience i feel like there are different levels of that and you know like in my life as a musician maybe only a handful of times i've ever gotten to a place where i truly felt like that it was the full freedom of you know what what could be possible so that's still for me is like a goal like i want to get there more often you know but it's it's um it's it's challenging you know it's um there's so many different the mind is so complex and there's so many different ways that one can obstruct oneself from achieving that that place um so yeah it's an ongoing journey and i love what you just said

too yeah there's so many ways that we can get in our own way and i think that sometimes it's because we are looking for answers outside of ourselves so it would be easy for someone to listen to what you just said and try to replicate for themselves as i think what one could do is use what you said as an inspiration to fuel an inner journey again using your words to discovering what all of that means for them i hope i'm making some sense no that makes it's absolutely true it's so true and i feel like that connecting to another thing is like that's what's kind of so difficult about teaching a string or teaching any instrument is that like you as as as a student only you know truly like the complexity of your internal world both physically and and emotionally and mentally

so like to be too prescriptive as a teacher and say like oh you know i think you should you should be feeling this it's like i'm always a little cautious of that i always tell my my students like only you really know what what's going on you know so like it's your responsibility to to try to get to that place of freedom like either with their attention or with their mindset that. Yeah. And it's, it's so, but that's what makes it so fascinating because everyone has a different journey and process with that. Yes. 100%. Another topic that I was curious to brush on with you a little bit was the kind of related to what we're just talking about is having a career where you're performing, you're traveling so much. How do you maintain that optimism,

the positive attitude while navigating these ups and down of a career in music yeah uh it can be it can be challenging you know there are lots of i would say that there are ups and downs and as i was saying before um you know not not every concert i think can be like a thousand a thousand percent but every concert and every performance every practice session can still teach you something. One, one of the things that I've tried to, to use as inspiration is this idea that like every mistake is actually just like, it's trying to tell you something, you know, like, so like, before I used to get really upset, it's like, oh, I missed that passage in a performance, you know, and I feel like, well, why did I miss that? Did I just not practice it enough?

But recently, I've been thinking like, well, if I missed it, there must be like, kind of a reason, Like maybe that pastor is trying to tell me that I need to like change my bowing or maybe I need to just spend more time with it. Or maybe I need to change my fingering or maybe I need to think about something else instead of thinking about the technique there. Maybe I need to think about the phrase, you know, and there's always something that that that you like subliminally are trying to teach yourself through your experiences on stage. And I feel particularly to emphasize the point that like it really for me is performance is so essential because I feel like there are things in that moment, you know, when you achieve when you're in that flow state and when the things take you out, like the mistakes. And those are the things that actually they teach you so much more than really any practice session could. And that's why I always say to people like you got to put yourself out there even before you're ready. You know, you got to play and get the mistakes out there and perform and really get that feeling of what it's like that a performance is sort of like it's sort of like a commute in the sense that like, yeah, it's a roadmap.

and by the 50th time uh by the 50th 50th time you're uh you not only know exactly what time you need to leave the door you know like how long it'll take door to door but you also kind of know like when you need to switch lanes and like how long this red light will be and like when and it's like um you know not to get too analytical about it but i feel like that journey of playing through the music is kind of like it's a path you know and and if you um the more you feel familiar with that path the more you can actually be free within it and it's like if you if you've walked that path before then you can walk it in different outfits and in different weather and you know and it's like that's why every that's how every performance is still

different but there's that sense of also that familiarity and newness it's kind of like that again that the the paradox it's like you're listening and doing but it's also familiar and new at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And it's very connected to what you were saying earlier in terms of the intention, uh, or the presence that you have when you're practicing and how that impacts that state of flow. It's like, I always say, if, uh, I think that one thing that professionals, uh, master often is that, um, ability to bring that stage presence in the practice room so that the the sort of state that you're in as you're practicing is not so different than the state you're in as you're performing so that when you hop on stage

it's not 100% foreign it might look different and sound different in your practice room but the internal state is more similar so I think that for people to cultivate that ability to to bring the stage in the practice room so that when you go to the stage and you you know commute to the stage once you're there it doesn't feel like a completely different experience and you are yourself not a different person is one of the best ways to um you know facilitate that entry to flow state or you know feeling comfortable on stage yeah i totally i totally agree yeah yeah it's and that that um that feeling of like of uh bringing the stage to your practice room and really like going for it like especially in terms of musical ideas or intensity levels uh i think

that's so important um uh i i i find that like unless i've really practiced it even further than i plan to go on stage somehow then then it's it doesn't feel as confident on stage you know but if like if i feel like i go like 150 with one musical idea or you know with the tempo or with with anything that i'm trying to really make uh apparent like trying to get to come across then then being on stage i can just feel free because i can kind of relax into the relax into what i've rehearsed you know with with that yeah yeah so it's to bring that in same level of intensity if not more inside of the practice room and then on stage you just let it happen right yeah a little bit what does that look like a little bit this is we were

exchanging emails before this interview and one of the things that you were mentioning is like building a career in the art what does that look like for you because the i feel like the landscape is very different now than it was 20 30 years ago and like finding balance between meeting the men's of the business, but also keeping your creativity. What does this look like for you? Yeah, yeah. It's a really, it's a changing, it's a changing world, I feel. Actually, I particularly find that since the pandemic, you know, going around and traveling to a lot of different places, audience attendance is not, I don't think it's what it used to be. It's somehow, it was affected you know and i think it's that that might not necessarily be a bad thing it's

just a it's just a change and it's it's kind of like a mistake that happens on stage you know it's like it's trying to tell us something and you know i i i have hypotheses and things that i wish i saw more in in the music world but of course only i can i can only focus on the things that i can um do um personally um i personally feel like like you know now nowadays of course there's the social media and, you know, the desire for, for, uh, people to see the human side of things. And, you know, I, I, uh, I try to emphasize that a lot in my approach to social media, like, you know, posting stuff that I try not to do any, any edits. Uh, I don't do any like sound, um, enhancement. Uh, and I like to show moments of like working or things that are funny

that go wrong, you know, and just feel like there's a, there's a human connection. You know, I feel like there's so much PR out there that's very sanitized and it kind of presents this image of people that it's not that it's bad, you know, it can often be also very inspiring. But for me, that's not the most interesting part. The most interesting part is, like, what's actually, you know, like, what's interesting is, like, well, what kind of thoughts are you having, like, on stage? Like, are you also struggling with X, Y, and Z? Like, this kind of thing is really interesting to me to talk about. Or like, how do you approach, you know, if something, if let's say like a bowing doesn't work, like how do you approach that in your next practice set? How do you practice the day before a concert versus the day of a concert?

Like things like that. Those are, I feel like, really interesting things to share with people. Yeah. And then, of course, there's also like, what are we doing with concert programming, whether it's too long? Those are all questions that are interesting. Personally, I feel like one of the things that should be brought back is the idea of performers playing their own music. And it's funny because that used to be such a common thing in the 19th century in classical music. And then it really kind of faded out, I think, in the 20th century as you got these performers who like had bigger and bigger careers.

That concept, I think, of like, you know, like jet setting and going to Asia and then South America. It's like that just wasn't a thing in the 19th century because it wasn't technologically possible. So as a result, even the very best, most renowned players, let's say in Europe, they had a limited number of concerts. They did other things. They taught and they had a lot of time to compose. And I think that's how we know their legacies today. People like Liszt and, you know, on the cello, people like Popper and Piotti. These are people that I really admire.

um and it's it's funny because that sense then also of like the artistic individuality is so much stronger if you're also playing your own music i think that's what classical music lost compared to popular music some popular music it's practically unheard of for an artist not to write their own music or have music that's unique to them let's say maybe they collaborate with someone else but or they write their own lyrics or something but something about the music that they mainly do is very much a personal expression of themselves and for us in classical music it's it's entirely the opposite we're we're always expressing other people's uh deepest feelings which is also very interesting of course but i feel like there's more room for yeah for us to

also write and play and stuff so i've been writing more recently yeah correct me if i'm wrong but isn't there uh you wrote one of the pieces that is on your upcoming album correct yeah well that yes that was a um so my upcoming album is a opera opera fantasy album has like all like operatic fantasias and i did one of the i guess you could call it an adaptation um of uh leo shianacek's opera yenufa for cello and piano so very great choice yeah this 15 minute fantasy and i i've performed it a couple times uh and it's always brought me a lot of uh satisfaction i feel like there's a particular kind of fun to playing something that you've written because it actually really takes the pressure off like it's like if you if you mess up it's like well you know it's

my piece yes yeah what is your compositional process oh um well you know for me it's a lot of improvisation at the cello I mainly the stuff I'm writing now is like mainly stuff that I can play because I'm interested in in playing so for example I'm writing these seven concert etudes at the moment which I'll play in a couple weeks at a recital in Korea and you know for for writing them I just kind of you know fiddle around on the cello I think oh this would be cool you know and I take a little note in in the computer software I write it down and then later I kind of try to put it all together, but it's mainly thinking about like, what would sound cool? What would be cool? What would be fun to play in a larger context? What would show off the cello

in a way that's interesting to a listener? Um, yeah. So it's a lot of improvisation at the instrument. That sounds fun. It is. Vladimir, you're so, um, inspiring. It's so great to hear you. I have a few rapid fire questions before I let you go. Sure. I'm curious, is there a thought or a belief that maybe has changed your life or maybe a thought or belief that support you as you're going through this journey? Yeah, I think, well, one of the things that I often think about is,

and this I feel is not only pertinent to being a musician, but just life in general, is to focus on the things that are in our control. you know so like and that that extends to so many different aspects of life but like um you know for example sometimes you show up to a concert stage and like it's freezing or something you know like and it's like or it's like super humid and and your cello is sounding terrible or something you know like these are all things that are like outside of your control so like we focus and we work and we we love what we do but in the context of things that we can

control so that's like our mindset and the time we put in and you know the the devotion and the love and uh all those things so i find that you know having a relationship to that has has helped me sort of feel a little more sane with everything it's so easy to get worked up about, you know, stuff that, that you wish were different, you know, it's like, I really wish that this, you know, but you know, you just do what you can and, you know, have faith and trust that things will work out the way that they're supposed to. I like that kind of in the same vein. I mean, anyone who reads your bio can see that you must have many, many healthy habits. You've won many competitions. You have a really great career trajectory. So I know that you have a lot of

really great habits, but is there one in particular that you think is really helpful for you has contributed to your success? I'm going to be a little bit just like standard on this one. I think that one of my best habits is that I really, I really prioritize sleep all throughout my life I've always really valued my sleep like and for most of of my recent life at least I've been able to get eight to nine hours of sleep every night and I'm very lucky that of course I have um a job that allows me to do that for the most part you know I know that and I know not everyone has that luxury. But I always try to, you know, prioritize my rest. And I feel like that helps me be clear and productive in my work. Yeah, I mean, we know the impact it has on all of

the cognitive processes. And also, of course, you know, keeping us energized and active, physically healthy. So that's a great one. Absolutely. For the people who are dreaming of a career that resemble yours. Can you tell us a little bit about what that life looks like? Definitely. So, uh, I live in New York city. I'm very lucky to live in New York city. Um, and you know, I have a, uh, uh, like a small apartment here and that's where I, when I'm at home, I'm usually just practicing. Um, I now I'm teaching at Juilliard. So, uh, when I'm back in the city, I'll go like later today, for example, I'll go see a couple students at school um and uh you know other than that just kind of responding to emails doing

all sorts of normal stuff that's like a day at home and that happens you know uh like for maybe uh like every week i'll be at home a couple days and then over the weekend i'm usually traveling so that's like me being on a plane and then like me in a hotel room but it's it's sort of a lot of uh you know just a lot of personal alone time i would say you know with the instrument and just with oneself um and and then you know the rehearsals of course if you're working in an orchestra or you're collaborating with a pianist or chamber music um but yeah i try to keep my uh schedule kind of stimulating like when i'm back uh one of my big hobbies is uh cinema so i try to go to the movies when i'm back in new york which is great because there

are a lot of theaters here and um i try to go to concerts with my colleagues when they're playing in new york there's also a lot of concerts here so um yeah but it's it could be it could be uh kind of an isolating lifestyle sometimes so i have to find make a point of you know scheduling time on zoom with my friends to catch up with them and of course speaking with like family members and loved ones like to really make a point of that because you can it's easy for it to sort of just slip away yeah yeah you know what's interesting too is i often feel like when you know there's guest artists visiting um a lot of orchestra members might be shy to go talk to them because you know sometimes you feel like well they're they're very busy they want to have their

own space when i think at times maybe they would welcome a friendly face or conversation Absolutely. You know, I've always so grateful. Like, for example, if I'm able to go out for a meal with a member of the orchestra who's a friend, you know, or like to see people that I know in a city where I'm traveling, that's always really, really nice. Yeah, that's a good reminder for me to not assume they want their space. Maybe they would like a nice chat, right? Right. Is there a performance that has stayed with you throughout the years? And if so, why? yeah well you know i think um there are there are a number of performances that like are kind of burned in my memory but one that is burned in my memory for a very unusual reason which i i often think about actually is i remember i was hearing this performance of uh there's a violinist

doing uh i think it was the waxman carmen fantasy or something and um we were sort of playing on the same concert i think so i was there backstage while they were warming up and um i think we played some chamber music before and they were finishing the concert and so i went out to listen and you know i was done so i was just you know hoping to enjoy the performance and be amazed and i remember that this person had a lot of uh anxiety about memory and they had been struggling with memory slips recently and like on the last page they had this really terrible memory slip where basically they just completely blanked and they couldn't remember at all what happened. They had to stop. Piano stopped. They went to look at the piano score and like refresh themselves on

the rest of the piece. And I remember this. The reason I remember this actually is not because it wasn't so much like the intense, like, like, you know, of being an audience member at that, but it was actually more just like how it didn't really bother me when that happened. Like, Cause I, I, it always like, it was always my worst fear, like as a player that if I'm on stage, like all the people in the audience, if that happened to me, I would feel like they were like, Oh, you know, how could, you know, like, it's like, I paid money for this or, you know, whatever. It's like, you know, like that there's somehow they would be upset that that happened.

Like that I would be letting down, letting them down or like failing to fulfill my side of the contract of like performer audience member. But I remember feeling that that just, it just really didn't bother me. and it was actually fine. And they finished the piece. And they got a standing ovation. And it was a very memorable performance. It was actually a fantastic performance. They played it extremely well. And so that was a that was kind of a funny moment for me. And you know, and now like in general, when I listen to concerts and things happen, it just doesn't, it really doesn't bother me. And I try to have that same kind of attitude as as a performer, because it's it's so hard for

us to put ourselves in that shoe, in that, in those shoes where we're, we're not as bothered by things going wrong. You know, we just, we're there to enjoy. We're there to, to really just appreciate, you know, so. Yeah. It's like you're, you're watching a human being going through an experience and you're all sitting in the hall sharing that together. Right. Yeah. I love that. How about a favorite tool in the practice room? favorite tool in the practice room hmm uh i think that you know i i'm a big user of the tuner and i've been critiqued by people for that but i feel like my relationship with the tuner has evolved um often i fall into the trap of like just kind of mindlessly using it to

to practice you know just to feel like i'm in tune but i feel like that's not actually helping because it sort of creates this bypass where it's like you are just making the change based on what the tuner is telling you rather than what i feel is the real way to use the tuner which is to to listen then see what the tuner thinks and then feel what the difference is between what you're hearing and what the tuners is hearing and like sort of to train your ear to listen at a finer level of granularity um so that's what i've been working on recently especially because i've been playing a lot of Bach and intonation is such a crucial element of playing Bach. I think in, in a way that's faithful to the music, you know,

some challenging string instruments with all the chords and also feeling how like different keys have different kinds of needs in terms of the intonation and the placement of specific notes. So that's been a very, it's been a fun tool to work with. So I like working with the tuner. I love that because it's really putting a lot of intentionality, how you're using a tool instead of being 100% defined by the tool. If that makes sense. I think you understand what I'm trying to say here. No, absolutely. Yeah. It's like kind of like that the tool is really assisting you rather than like it's giving you the answers or whatever. It's like you're using it to sort of, yeah, you already have all the ingredients and it's just like helping you get there faster. Yes, I love that. A very mindful approach to using the tuner. This is great. Finally, how about a quick actionable tip that the listeners could implement today in their life in general or their musical life?

oh quick actionable tip hmm well i would say oh you know what's really a good one is um i actually i i've i learned this from uh one of my therapists uh who uh at the beginning of every session um they would say why don't we set an intention for this session like what is it that you want to accomplish at the end of the session? How different, how do you want to have a different relationship to your life after this hour we spent together? And I started thinking about how that could apply to every practice session we have to that, like just at the beginning of a practice session, we would say, what's my intention for this practice session? You know, maybe I want to feel more comfortable with, but like, it should be something that, that it's like not too abstract,

but also not too concrete either it's like something like well i want to um work on this piece with the objective of feeling that you know my memory like i'm feeling really confident with it being memorized and so like if you have that intention then then you have sort of a roadmap to follow while you're practicing you know and i a lot of people often ask about like why is it that their practice is unproductive or like they feel like they're just going through the motions that kind of thing. And maybe, maybe that would help. So, yeah, yeah, this is great. 100% agree with that. Vladimir, as I mentioned, you have a fantastic Instagram account. Um, there's also a lot of videos on YouTube. You have an album coming out. Is there any, and I'm going to put

all this information in the show notes for people to click, but is there anything else that you'd like to bring the attention of the listeners to maybe, uh, upcoming concerts? Um, yeah, well, so you know please follow me on instagram if you if you if you'd like uh my handle is uh z funcello and um you can also check out my website i have a schedule where my con with my upcoming concerts um and uh my album is forthcoming it was supposed to come out in january 2025 but actually it was delayed to march 2025 but it's coming it's coming and um yeah and you know i'm working on the box suites now and um i'm you know writing these seven etudes for solocello which hopefully maybe early next year i can uh uh self-publish on my website so i do hope to be

doing more um like sharing more of the stuff that i'm writing um so maybe you can look out for that if you're following me yes can't wait to hear your music thanks Vladimir thank you so much for this conversation, for providing the listeners and myself with so much inspiration and insight and wisdom. It's such a pleasure speaking with you. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. And there you have it. Thank you so much for joining me today. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with friends and fellow musicians. Grab a screenshot, share it on social media, and tag me. I'm Mind Over Finger on all platforms, and I would love to hear what your favorite takeaways were. Don't forget to follow the podcast on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, and if

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