The Mind Over Finger Podcast - 219 Jarrett McCourt: You Career, Your Rules – Creating a Life in Music That Works for You

Episode Date: March 21, 2025

Many musicians feel stuck in a single career path, believing that success means following a traditional trajectory. But what if true success is about expanding, not staying locked into one role? In this episode, tubist Jarrett McCourt shares his journey from performing with world-class orchestras to building a career and life that align with his values. We discuss: Why career pivots aren't about quitting but about growth How redefining success can lead to more fulfillment The role of mental health and self-acceptance in performance What musicians get wrong about hustle and burnout If you've ever questioned your path in music or wondered what's next, this episode is for you.   Are you ready to take your playing and career to the next level and create a life that feels purposeful and joyful? Let's connect and explore how personalized coaching can support your journey. Click here to schedule your free consultation, and let's start turning your goals into reality. Book your free consultation with Renée HERE Download the transcript from this episode HERE     MORE ABOUT JARRETT MCCOURT Website:  https://jarrettmccourt.com/ YouTube channel:  https://www.youtube.com/@JarrettMcCourt Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jarrett.mccourt/   Mind Over Finger Click www.mindoverfinger.com/coaching to book your free consultation with me. Visit MindOverFinger.com for my online courses as well as free resources on peak performance. Grab my free workshops and PDF downloads by going to www.mindoverfinger.com/resources. Connect: https://www.youtube.com/@MindOverFinger https://www.facebook.com/mindoverfinger/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/mindoverfinger https://www.instagram.com/mindoverfinger/     THANK YOU: Most sincere thank you to composer Jim Stephenson who graciously provided the show's musical theme:  Concerto #1 for Trumpet and Chamber Orchestra – Movement 2: Allegro con Brio, performed by Jeffrey Work, trumpet, and the Lake Forest Symphony, conducted by Jim Stephenson.

You're listening to the Mind Over Finger podcast. This is episode 219. Welcome to the Mind Over Finger podcast, where we dive into the world of mindful music making, peak performance, and crafting a purpose-driven life and career. I'm your host, violinist, certified performance and life coach for musicians, and your guide to unlocking your full potential, Dr. René-Paul Gaultier. Have you ever questioned your career path in music? Maybe you set your sights on an orchestra job, solo career, a teaching position, but you find yourself wondering, is this really it? Let me ask you this. What if success in music isn't about following a single path, but it's about expanding your possibilities? What if stepping outside the traditional mold

could actually bring you more fulfillment, stability, and artistry? My guest today is Jarrett McCourt, and he's navigated this question firsthand. Jarrett was named one of Canada's hottest 30 classical musicians under 30. He's performed with top orchestras worldwide, including the Berlin Phil, the Chicago Symphony, the Montreal Symphony, and many others. But beyond his impressive resume, what makes his journey so compelling is how he's redefined what a thriving career in music looks like. From touring with world-class ensembles to teaching, yoga instructions, mental health advocacy, and even designing websites, Jarrett has built a career that's not just sustainable, but deeply fulfilling. In this episode, he shares how he unhooked from the rigid expectations of the music world,

how he overcame the stigma of pivoting, and how he built a life that allows him to do more, not less. We also dive into his experiences with mental health, performance anxiety, and the power of self-acceptance in music. whether you're rethinking your own career path or navigating self-doubt or simply looking for inspiration to expand your artistry this conversation is going to give you new perspectives on what's truly possible in music you can find out more about jared on his website jared mccourt.com and i'm going to have that link in the show notes for you all right without further ado here's jared mccourt let's go to the show jared mccord thank you so much for being on the show thank you it's great to be here

jared as the listeners heard in the introduction you have a really full and interesting career you do a lot of things and for me it shows how beautifully unique our careers can be and you've certainly created that for yourself. So I would like to start with the first question I always ask my guests, which is, can you tell us about your path and how that musical journey unfolded for you? Yeah. Um, I have been thinking lately about this thing. I tell my students all the time and I always tell them to be onions, meaning to have layers. Um, and I think that's kind of what I've been striving for for a long time. Basically, from the get-go, I knew that I wanted to play the tuba. And I went to a small school in Canada for my undergrad in tuba performance

and then went to Michigan for tuba performance and then got into the New World Symphony, which I know you know very well as well um and for that entire time i just knew and want that i wanted to be a professional tuba player in an orchestra and then i won an orchestra job in winnipeg and the orchestra is very very good some nice people um but as a tuba player in the orchestra it's very different than being a violinist in the orchestra there's many weeks where either we don't play or we play like two notes like it would basically be like first concert of the season Mahler one and then a bunch of random stuff and then check five at the end of the season or something like that and it would just be a lot of just boring weeks and I am someone who always

needs to be stimulated um so at that point I decided to during COVID to make some kind of change. Um, I've always been kind of an intermediate at a lot of things. Like I make websites and, um, you know, take pictures and I'm a yoga teacher and I wanted a way to sort of like bring all of those interests together. So I started to apply for full-time tenure track college teaching positions. And I think when people think about those jobs, they think somebody goes and teaches for eight hours and then they go home and then there's nothing else but for me a teaching job is really a great bucket for like many other activities for example my breakdown as a teacher is 40 of my job is teaching 40 of my job is creative activity and 20 is service so 40

of my time is teaching students and then 40 of my time is doing recitals and master classes and playing chamber music and that's the stuff that I really, really like. Um, and then service is just like committees, which is, you know, I'm sure you've been on a couple of committees, so, you know, um, but yeah. And, and a big part of that I think was just allowing me to unhook from the preconceived notion that I needed to play in the orchestra because I was on that track. Um, so I've kind of landed in this really beautiful place where I have this job at UMKC university of Missouri, Kansas city. Um, I also work for the new world symphony in alumni and admissions, and I play a lot. Like I'm playing with the Kansas city symphony this week and do

that quite a bit and recitals and masterclasses. And what I love about that is like, whenever I'm bored or frustrated with one of my jobs, I can just go do the other job. So all that to say, like having this kind of like onion shape to my life and my career is extremely gratifying and I think keeps me from being cynical. I think it's great for the listeners to hear this because I love how you worded it. I had to unhook because I was, you know, we have this belief that I'm on this track and we have to stay on this track because that's what's been done before. And I think that your story illustrates how we have so much more agency than we think on our own lives. And then it comes to looking at what it is that we want. And then sometimes we have to make

difficult decisions, of course, and we have to take a lot of actions, but we can really claim that agency over our trajectory. Definitely. And I think there's a stigma with the idea of pivoting because sort of like as you said like we're on this track and then we feel like we need to stay on the track and if we go away from it then we've failed yes at least I mean I've felt that I don't know if you felt that too but like moving away from the orchestra it it was I had to sort of like put my ego in the back seat because I was like I I'm not doing this but like I'm doing way more playing now than I used to um and the idea of pivoting I think is is just it's not correct like if you're moving away from something sure okay you're pivoting but I think you can view

it also as expanding like you're still doing that playing thing but now you're doing way more and that's I mean we can talk also about how from a financial standpoint that's much more it's just much more lucrative to be doing many things instead of just relying on one thing to provide you you know your your source of income and your livelihood yes and it's so interesting and stimulating. And as you say, you like to have all sorts of activities that you dedicate yourself to. So that's, that keeps one engaged. Yeah, definitely. And, you know, like I said, it's kind of, I've been telling my students lately that you need to be doing more than just playing or teaching because it's the antidote to cynicism. I mean, so many of us know that, and I'm sure that

you see these people every day that there's people who are very, very cynical in the orchestra and who I think are just kind of bent out of shape about some of like the little things that happen every day. And don't get me wrong. I mean, there's some very frustrating things about playing in the orchestra full time. Um, but if you leave and you can leave that work at work, it doesn't mean you need to not practice or anything, but if you can leave what you do at work and you can go home and, I don't know, go for a run or go do yoga or connect with something else and open up another side of yourself, I think you can go back more refreshed. Yes. Yes. I love that so much. What this brings up for me is the work that I do with clients often is how do we differentiate

between the reality, the facts of reality and the stories we tell ourselves about it and how when we see that what if those things are stories and what if I pick a different story how we can start to change things for ourselves and I feel like your students are so lucky to have someone to guide them that has this ability of of exposing them to a different way of doing things and and probably will inspire them to use that word again, inspire them to use agency over their own lives. Well, it's kind of where teaching needs to be in a post COVID world, you know, because I mean, I see so many teachers from the older generation sort of put their students into like these pre-assigned buckets, sort of like what you're talking about. Like, and I think this

perpetuates the perceptions that we have for ourselves and others that like, if you're a performance major, you're going to play in the orchestra. If you're an education major, you're going to be a band director. If you're a composition major, you're going to be a composer, but why can't we be all of them? So when I specifically, if someone's studying performance with me, I require them to engage in another skill that can be, like I said, designing websites. It can be looking into repair work. It can just be so many things. And like I said, much of what I try to do with these students is just try to equip them for the real world like i'm always encouraging them to like learn how to market themselves and like make a website and go try

to get students and like i i'd cringe at the idea of students leaving music school and not having the skills to like live and perform and make money that they get to the end of their degree and they play their final recital and they're like, job, please. And that's not how it works. I mean, you have to like hustle. And I think that's when I think about the things that really differentiate me or I feel like have, have really driven me towards success is that I hustle. Like I'm not afraid to send those emails with my resume to orchestras. I mean, I don't do that anymore, but when I was getting going, like I asked a lot and I put myself out there a lot. And I think that and take a little bit of courage and putting your ego in the backseat. And listen, I mean,

send your resume to 10 orchestras and you hear from one of them, you know, and that's still one of them. Right. Um, so there, there's a time in every musician's life where I think you just need to be throwing darts and just doing whatever you can. And if that's like you teach, if that's like you play like a crappy gig at a retirement home, like just take it because you never know who's going to be listening or who might be in that circle yes 100 i hear you i mean i remember spending days sending about 300 emails to try and book a tour for a chamber music group i was leading at the time and you know it took 300 emails to have eight gigs on that tour but it was a great tour but it took 300 emails you know and i think that sometimes we under this impression

of I'll send one email and what happens? It makes me think of that idea of going back to what you said in terms of after school, you hope for a job. It's that scarcity versus opportunity mentality in terms of, right, if there's one tuba position per orchestra and you only think about what's available right now, it's very scary. So you can easily fall into that scarcity mentality where If there's not a lot of employment, as opposed to this opportunity mentality, what can I create? What is possible for me out there? How can I go about just putting together elements and just creating something so wonderful for myself? Yeah, I think what I'm thinking about right now is this kind of like cliche saying of success is where opportunity meets preparation.

like you need to be prepared for an opportunity to come your way, but you also kind of need to put yourself in situations where opportunities are presenting themselves. Um, I, a couple of years ago, it's crazy thing happened, but I was called kind of last minute to go on tour with Berlin Phil. And, um, I think back to what was the reason for that happening. And it happened to be that I played for somebody and they thought that I sounded good. And then somebody contacted that person asking for a tuba player for the Berlin Phil U S tour. And that person gave my name and it there's a lot of dominoes that needed to fall between that conversation and like me sitting on stage at the berlin philharmonie but i was i was ready for it i mean like it was two

weeks had to learn mahler seven which is kind of an unknown mahler symphony it's not one that we do consistently but i try to sort of like use that as a stencil for like all of my opportunities now Like, how can I just always be sharpening my tools in the practice room so that when, like, I get a call like that, it's not that I have to, like, you know, defibrillate my tuba playing. Like, I'm always ready kind of to go. And there's a very specific routine that I do in the practice room just to make sure that I am healthy and that I'm doing all the right things to keep my tools sharp. Um, but yeah, I, I, again, like I think back to that and I'm like, how do I, how do I recreate that level of preparation? Because I was, I was very lucky.

I mean, it was a lucky bounce, but I was ready for it. Yeah. It was a lucky bounce that you initiated. You gave that momentum by the actions you took by going and play with this person. And then when, you know, it came back to you, you were ready. Can we talk about this a little bit more? Because I know that preparing for performance is a topic that you have opinions on as a teacher and a performer. You play everywhere. And I know that you're also a yoga teacher. So I'm guessing that you have a really interesting perspective on that. Yeah. Oh, so much. I mean, from just like a mechanical perspective, I think that sort of as I alluded to, like, you need to always be doing something in the practice room and you need to always be ready. And that doesn't mean you can't take time off because I am a huge advocate for taking like chunks of time off during the year. But I say that having a routine, like something that you do every day that, you know, you have your set exercises. And then I do another set of exercises that is kind of, I tell my students, it's like turning over rocks. Like you're looking at like the underside of the rock that has like mud and bugs on it. And those are the things that we're bad at.

like we need to spend time sort of trying to work out for example like your low register or your articulation or in your case like bow stuff i don't know much about string instruments but like i assume that that's stuff that you guys work on um but um performance anxiety for many people i think is very bewildering and we always wait until like the day before to like try to figure out how we're going to move through our performance from the mental and emotional side. But this is something that I think about all the time. I mean, I'm coming at this from a perspective of I'm a yoga teacher. I work for a suicide hotline, but I'm also someone who has struggled with my mental health for a long time. And if I don't get this sort of under control, then it has

huge impact on the quality of my performance um you sort of alluded to like the the voices that come in and many of us i think want to push that voice away like the one that's like oh you're going to miss that high note or you're not going to play this well but i encourage my students to always let that voice in the room and say okay it's here today like if you go to play a concerto and you're just, your brain is somewhere else, then you say, okay, well, this is where I am today. And this is all I can give. I mean, if you're about to perform and for whatever reason, you only have 20% in the tank, like you got a bad night's sleep or you didn't have the right meal, or you had a tough conversation before the performance and you're just really in your head,

like you shouldn't try to give 80% when you only have 20%. Yeah. You have to meet yourself where you are. Exactly. Exactly. But so many yoga things that I bring into teaching. One of the biggest things is the idea of box breathing or square breathing. Do you know about this? Yes. Yes. I mean, super, super, super good. Like you're holding the breath, which essentially takes you from your parasympathetic nervous system, which is your fight or flight down to your sympathetic nervous system, which you can sort of relax in. And again, when you hold the breath, it's very relaxing and brings your blood pressure down. And any kind of stretches, I mean, from a physical perspective, I'm always showing my students things that they can do to alleviate tension and pain. And yoga has just been a huge

part of my own playing career and my own practicing as well. I love that. It's so important and and i agree with you in terms of these voices when we start to fear them it actually creates this spiral of fear and anxiety and um because the minute we invalidate our feelings and our thoughts this is when we um we just start a very negative cycle so i'm on board with you right there. Yeah. And you're, you're almost like in sensing them, right? When you push them away or you ignore them, I think it makes them bigger and stronger. Um, and I mean, listen, negative self-talk I think, um, is it's easy to let ourselves do that because it's kind of a coping skill, right? Like if we do something badly or, or we can get better at something

saying that, oh, it's just because I'm bad, you know, that's kind of addictive, right? Because you're giving a reason for why you're not good at something. For example, it's like, if I am using like playing in the low register, like if I'm, if I'm bad at playing low, well, I'm just bad. It's like, well, no, like, what are you doing to actually fix that? Because that's how you get better. Right. And that's sort of like what I was talking about, about this, like turning over a rock in the practice room. Like so many of us love to like do our things that we love and like play our Tchaikovsky concerto and like our Brahms four excerpts. And like, we feel good, but like, what is your worst excerpt? And like, how are you going to make it better today? Or

what skill do you need to refine in order to make it easier? Because we as humans do not like discomfort. I mean, we don't like being uncomfortable. We, we want to like be nostalgic. we want to be happy like everything is good but the sad truth about life is that you need to like look your demons in the eyes both from a life perspective but also in the practice room and if you don't then you're going to plateau and you're going to find a point where you're like like you get so frustrated but it's because you're not working on the things that you should be working on and then you're just like running a piece and ad nauseum and we all do this but the people who have this kind of like ability to pull themselves out and watch themselves from a third

person i think those are the people that are the most successful yes 100 like what you're saying is giving me so many ideas i mean i i know that you and i agree on so many uh themes based on what you're saying. And it's like, if you fear the fear, then things escalate. And I had a coach one time tell me, you have to doubt the doubt, right? You don't have to believe the doubt. Don't fear the doubt. Don't hate the doubt, but don't also believe it. Just doubt the doubt. And I thought that was very freeing because that gave me permission to start looking at what I was thinking from a different perspective and see if there was something equally true. Let's say you have a negative thought, like, I can't play this. And you really believe that,

or you fear that. Maybe there's a positive thought that's equally true. Like, it's possible I'm capable of playing this. That could lead you down a road that is much more productive. I hope I'm making sense here because what you're saying gives me um so many ideas um but I do feel that um showing people how to do this mental work in the practice room and in their performance preparation is so important and this idea of perfectionism is is so detrimental because when we sit down with the piece of music you were talking about like what is your worst excerpt that we don't want to practice because it's making us face our you know biggest fears and then as we sit with this excerpt we have the idea of where we want it to be and where it is and that distance

is so scary that we feel defeated if we can just shift the mentality to constant improvement and to use your words from from earlier is like like where are you right now meet yourself where you are and how can you raise the bar just a tiny bit just a tiny bit instead of having these expectations that this is where it has to be this is where I am right now and focusing only on this distance um so yeah I hope I'm coherent here but no I all that is so beautiful and I was just like I was having so many thoughts while you were talking uh but I really wanted to listen too so I'm glad that you you said all of that you know the thing that I'm thinking about the most right now is just, um, we just need to be grateful. And it's, I think it's really easy

for me to say that like right now, as I'm having this like very, um, stimulating and positive conversation with you about all of this stuff. But there are times when I'm in the practice room or having a bad day where I'm not grateful, but it sometimes takes like pulling yourself out of whatever's happened and say like you get to make music every day like how crazy is that and sometimes I wake up and I'm just like I don't want to do this today but I saw something recently that was like I mean we can really you've talked about this many times on your podcast like you can really change the way you do something by what you tell yourself and like having a mantra and when we wake up in the morning and say i don't want to do this you can easily turn that

on its head and say but i get to do this yeah like you know i teach for 13 hours straight because i need to jump on a plane to go play with somebody tomorrow and i'm like i have to teach 13 hours today but then i'm like wait i get to teach 13 students today who all want to learn from me and then i get to go on a plane tomorrow and play with a great orchestra like how crazy is that but and that really even just talking about it like my shoulders came down like and i started you know thinking more positively and it's so hard to do that in the moment but i think if if there's something that we can do i mean i put like sticky notes on my music stand sometimes i'm sure we all do this, but one of them is just like smile or like, you know, take a look around all those just

to, again, pull me out of the moment and say like, okay, how can I enjoy what I'm doing more right now instead of being tired and cranky, you know? Yes. I couldn't agree more. Jared, I want to take you back a little bit to something you mentioned earlier regarding mental health, because I know that's a topic that you're really passionate about. You mentioned that you work for a crisis hotline. And, um, I would, I would love your perspective on this because it's so prevalent these days. And I feel like we're in a kind of, um, an environment right now where everybody's emotions are very high. A lot of people are scared and nervous. Um, can we go down that road a little bit? Yeah, of course. Of course. Um, you know, this, like you said, is more prevalent

in a post-covid world in the climate that we're currently in um i think that in our world specifically there's this aversion to um using the help that we need or like asking or taking the things we need i mean one thing that comes to mind right now is talking about beta blockers specifically and how there's like a camp of people who are like no you shouldn't need that And then there's other people who are like, yes, you should. You can have it if you need it. And I'm very much in the latter. I think if you need help, then there are resources to help you. This is specifically true, of course, with beta blockers. But if you have something that is going on, or your quality of life is being affected by your emotions or your mental health, there are so many resources out there. There is talk therapy, there's psychiatry, there are so many things that we can do for ourselves. But many of us, I think, just sort of move on with our lives and say like, Oh, I don't, I don't have to worry about that. Like, I'll just move through. And it's like, no, like, I think that when you're having a tough time, you need to ask yourself, why is this happening? And the idea of processing emotions, I think is not something that people often do. I mean, for example, like if you're, um, if you have a really

hard time getting on stage for something, or you, you have a really hard time with a particular piece of music, um, and there's, there's something holding you back from performing really well. Um, I think you need to ask yourself, okay, what are you feeling? And name the emotion. And then ask yourself, well, what is this about? Like, what can I draw this particular emotion back to in my life? And many therapists will talk about your upbringing and possibly parents and school. And there is so much stuff that we can all unpack from our past. And the moment that you realize that all of the negative things likely in your life that are happening are due in part to something that you didn't unpack from your life previously, I think that's where you can start to unlock a lot more solace. Does that make sense? Yes, 100%. Yeah, you talked about how you had some challenges. What did that look like for you to get to a place where you're feeling better? Yeah. I mean, well, I'm just, I'm an open book, so I'm happy to talk about these things because I know that there might be people out there who might be struggling with similar things. But I, in my undergrad, was severely, severely depressed and was misdiagnosed with an emotional disorder and was on medication and things got really bad.

Um, ended up being hospitalized for a while. And, um, there were a number of years where things were not good, but I was just sort of pushing through, um, a lot of my depression and, um, mental health comes from being overweight when I was a kid and being bullied, um, and a Recently, after being encouraged by some people in my life, I decided to pursue psychiatry again, just to see if there was anything sort of medical that I could pay attention to. And it turns out I have ADHD, but I also have bipolar too, which there's not somehow a stigma with depression, I think, because a lot of people are depressed at some point. But the idea of being bipolar, I think, is stigmatized. I mean, I think when people hear bipolar, they're like, oh, what's that? Like, they're kind of scared of it. But for me, it looks like, I mean, when I'm unmedicated, I just have some very, very, very deep lows. um and being in my case on the right medication has not only changed my life but it's made my life worth living and it's made me um a more enjoyable person to be around and for a long

time i just sort of thought that this is how everybody thought and felt that this is i mean some of the things that I was thinking and feeling was normal. And then I finally started to vocalize those things. And people were like, whoa, like, no, we need to talk about this. So a combination of like this medical side that's being taken care of, but also this talk therapy. I mean, I have a therapist, we talk very frequently. And there might be a notion out there that, you know, you can get a little bit of therapy, and then you're done. But with mental health, we both know that this is something you just need to keep up. It's not something that you're going to be cured from. The people who struggle likely will probably struggle in some way

for the rest of their lives. But when you start to accept that, then you can start to accept a path forward and also start to accept yourself. And oh man, there's a lot of tranquility in that, That you can finally be like, I'm not okay, but that's okay. That's very powerful. Thank you so much for sharing this. It's so important to hear because so many people are going to be either afraid to look for help or maybe give up if they don't get the proper support. And make that mean that, you know, I'm uncurable. This is never going to work.

When in fact, I think that you just need to keep searching until you find that right combination of the people who are going to be able to help you in the way that you need to be helped. And for someone who's struggling right now to see you having had this courage to look for this help, but also this discipline is not the word that I'm looking for. but um i'm not sure what the word i'm looking for is but you you kept at it like initiative the initiative yes yeah and and you you had the curiosity to to see if you could figure this out you could tell me if i'm off base here no i mean it was it was at a point where like if i didn't

then I mean, I, I don't know where I would be right now. Right. Let's say that. So it was kind of out of necessity and that's something too. I mean, I think back to COVID and when my orchestra was furloughed and suddenly I needed to find a way to live. And then I was just like, okay, well, what can I do? And I did a coding bootcamp and I started to design websites. And then I started to teach sort of these self-care seminars to music schools. Like I would talk about this kind of stuff, like mental health and like what musicians specifically can do to improve the way they see themselves and their mental health. But a lot of this is very, very tough for me to realize it for a long time, but it's acceptance. It's again, acceptance that we're like, we are humans

and by nature we are flawed and it's okay to look for help and it's also okay to ask for help and that doesn't mean that you're weak that actually means that you're strong i think yeah like being vulnerable is a superpower and i i told you like having these neurological emotional mental conditions that i have i could very easily say like oh well this makes my life harder, but actually I kind of see them as superpowers right now. Like these things that I struggle with, I feel things very deeply because of the way that I'm wired neurologically. And not only does that make me able to talk to people and relate to them and make them feel comfortable when I speak to them, but also from a musical perspective, like I can dig deep into

pieces sometimes and draw it back to something that makes me deeply emotional. And I think that what I've worked on for a long time is taking these like very vivid pictures and very vivid emotions that I have in my head and in my heart and making those come out of my instrument. Because so many of the performances that I've seen that have been the most vivid, I feel like are the ones where the performer has the most vivid picture and message that they're trying to communicate to the audience. We know, I mean, we know when we see someone play and they're just trying to hit the right notes and we're not connecting, but if someone is really committed to the music and then as a result, connected with what's going on in their head, I think that is

the difference between a performance that is effective and not effective. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. It's so great. And I love what you said in terms of We're humans. We're flawed. And I think that if we can accept, to use your word, acceptance is such a powerful word. It's such a powerful concept. It's such a powerful way to live if one has a lot of acceptance, right? And see that, yes, there are the flaws and then there are all of the strengths that are in combination with this, which we tend to not see. We tend to not even look for it as we just look at the the gaps that we see um so when we can like shift things around and start to look at okay here are the flaws and here are the beautiful gifts talents and and those

strengths those superpowers that you were mentioning yeah that's so great yeah it's once we accept those things that we can't do and start to try to figure out how to fix them. I think that's when we improve as human beings. Um, because honestly, I could have very easily just never acknowledged that I had problems and probably had a much less fulfilling and much less happy life, but where I'm at right now, I mean, just as a caveat, like I still have some very bad days. And that's, I think, part of any person's life. Like I'm not coming at this from a point of like, I'm perfect now because I'm not. And I think that's worth acknowledging too. And I talk to my students about this all the time. Like I never want to be the teacher who everyone thinks

is just like perfect and feels great all the time and is happy and has a perfect life. That's not effective for students to have in their lives. I mean, they need to have mentors who have gone through things and who can look those things in the eye and then also help them through things. And when we sort of work on ourselves, we can very easily just be better citizens of the world because we know, and we've gone through something and you know, when you've talked to somebody and you're talking about something difficult, you know, that if they've gone through it or not. And if they have, then they can help you. And if you work through something, you can help other people. And that's very self-motivating for me. It's like, how can I

work on these things? And how can I have the words to talk about them with other people? And it's something I think about a lot. Like, how can we, I had a teacher one time, the best saying he gave me was, you know, when you reach a certain level of success, you have to send the elevator down and you owe it to everyone who's coming after you to take what you've learned and to take the success that you have and try to help other people get to where they want to go. That's beautiful. And I think it's really important for everyone to hear because some people have this idea that the purpose is happiness at all times.

and if we're having bad days we're having bad feelings they make it mean that something's wrong something's not right there's something to fix and it couldn't be further from the truth and i think that having this ability to welcome all of the feelings that we're experiencing and exploring what is happening with that that spirit of curiosity and a genuine desire to understand rather than to judge. I think this can lead to a much happier life in general and the happier life that involves happy moments and difficult moments. Totally. Have you watched Ted Lasso? Oh my goodness. I just finished watching it for the third time. Oh my God. I love this show. There's this, my favorite moment in that show is where, I think it's maybe in like season,

maybe in season one but um rebecca and ted are at the bar and then rupert comes in and he's like trying to hustle ted on playing darts and he has this moment where like he thinks that he's bad but ted actually is really good at playing darts and um at the end he's talking about how you know everybody thought that he couldn't do this and everything and he said be curious not judgmental Yeah. And that's like, that's all you need to tell yourself in life. And then you can just live your life. Yeah. Um, and that, that works for other people that works for yourself. I mean, so many people, I think when they see, you know, people being angry or not happy there, they get upset, but I always, I mean, sometimes it's hard to, but I always try to look at those

people and be like, well, maybe they're just having a rough day or maybe something that's going on. So in that case, I mean, be curious, not judgmental. You can also turn that inwards. But yeah, Ted Lasso should be required watching for every human being, I think. Oh, yes. I love it. I mean, my kids watch it and they're the ones who wanted to watch it with us again. So three times. Yeah, it's perfect. I think this is a great place to transition perhaps to the rapid fire question, right? What better transition point than Ted Lasso? But I really want to acknowledge and thank you for opening up about this topic because it's so important to normalize this, to talk about it more so that there's so much more acceptance, right, around us.

Yeah, this sort of always, I try to put this disclaimer in here, but if you're struggling, there's a lot of resources. out there um i mean there's the organization that i work for is free it's called crisis text line and if you're um struggling you can text into um 741 741 that number and you can be connected with someone immediately who's been trained for 40 odd hours to talk to somebody who's in crisis and um not that this is like a solution i think it's more of a band-aid like if you're Like we call it like hot or cold. Like if you are hot, then you are in peak anxiety, possibly a panic attack. And if you're cold, then you're fine. We take people from hot to cold. And again, that's not a replacement for talk therapy or psychiatry, but that's a place to go, especially because I know a lot of students struggle financially and might not be able to afford therapy. um i also i mean i'm open to talking about this stuff with anyone so uh my personal information is on my website and i would love to help anyone out there who might be struggling and listening

i will put the link to reach you in the web and in the show notes of this episode of course and there's a great video of you giving a talk on the topic of mental health for musician that I highly recommend people check out as well. Okay, ready for a rapid fire question? Let's go. I've been waiting for this. And you know, we tackled some really deep topics. So maybe I'll go more on the practicing, lighter side of things for this.

How about that? Sure, sounds good. What makes practicing, one of my favorite questions, what makes practicing most enjoyable for you? Cause you know, I, like, I believe that enjoyable practice is so much more efficient. Yeah. I think, um, the idea that we should be going back to gratitude, like as musicians, we have a craft that we can hone every day.

And there are people who work nine to fives who can't do that. Like we have something that we can work on. And the minute we see that as a positive and not a negative, I think that makes practicing more enjoyable. But from a pragmatic standpoint, like I have like a lavender oil diffuser on all the time and like a warm beverage and like comfy clothes and, you know, headphones on to sort of, you know, cancel out any noise, but creating that like comfortable space, I think is really important.

And that stuff works for me. I'm sure you have other things, but like you shouldn't be practicing in tails basically. I agree. I have an air spray that's organic and from Quebec, from a blueberry farm. And it's a blueberry spray. And it's like, it makes me feel very peaceful. Oh, la belle province, right? Absolutely.

Yes. What's the habit that you have that you think contributed to your success? I think circling back to that idea of hustling, like never, I mean, this is kind of a positive and a negative, but not sitting still and always asking yourself, like, what else can I do? Like if I really want this, then you have to want it. And I know that might be a toxic statement, but I think that can be put with the caveat that, you know, if you, if you want it, you should want to do these things. and for me that's just like when i was uh when i was growing up like i took lessons with everyone and sometimes i got like nothing out of it sometimes i would get like maybe one thing

but like just to see what is out there and if someone can frame something for me um just again be curious not judgmental right yes i think in this is why this is never rapid it's giving me but i just love chatting with you i hope that we we do it more often in the future i love the work of martha beck and she talks a lot about this concept of finding your north star and this idea of hustle is very important because there's for lack of a better word a right way to do it and the wrong way to do it which is hustling without the real purpose of your life is not the same as hustling towards your North star. So as you're journeying towards your North star, there's going to be mountains to climb. There's going to be ravine, there's going to be

torrential rain and storms. And, but the thing is you feel the call and there's going to be fear. You're going to have to do a lot of things that take you outside of your comfort zone, But there's that pull of the North Star. And I think that a lot of people sometimes perhaps don't know what that is for them, or they're afraid to even ask what it is that I truly want, that I would be willing to do all of these things. um and then then sometimes they there's something that they really want but because hustle has such a bad reputation they hold themselves back um so for me that's a powerful context is what is the hustle you know what's the north star that you're willing to hustle for like a mission statement i mean i love like the north star it's like a little bit it's it's more symbolic but like if your mission statement is i want to get a job in a top five orchestra great but if it's something else

then you need to be honest with yourself about that and go towards that for me a long time ago it was that i i want to make others happy and that's just a general thing and that's i think why my bucket is so big now because i think a lot of those things can go towards that and if even if your north star or your mission statement is to get into a professional orchestra I think maybe you can open it up a little bit and say, like, I want to make other people happy with my music or I want to have a successful musical career that includes orchestral music just so you can have more, right? I mean, have more options and have more things contributing to that North Star or that mission statement. And we also know, I think, all people who, like hustling, you can do it in a bad way and you can do it in a good way. like hustling we we've all talked to people who like seem like they just really want it and they

are willing to do whatever it takes and some people are willing to like push others aside and be off-putting and there's a way to communicate i'm sure everyone's teachers has ways to to talk about these things but just try to to not be desperate or too hungry yes like some things will come to you but some things will come to you because you ask for them but try not to make it the thing that you do all the time because then you'll be known as the person who does that yeah it's like hustle but be nice exactly exactly exactly oh jared this is great i'm getting so excited but sadly we must bring this to an end in closing what is a quick actionable tip that you would you know recommend that the listeners implement in their musical lives

I think if we turn inwards and ask ourselves what do we need right now then that can be very effective like if you're about to practice and you didn't sleep last night for whatever reason like you should probably sleep like ask yourself what do I need right now sometimes it's sleep Sometimes it's a good meal. Sometimes it's a shoulder to lean on. But then other times it's like, I need to practice because I have a performance coming up and you will be the most effective and the most successful if you are doing what your body needs. And I think a lot of us don't listen to what our body needs a lot. So you always know what you need. You just have to ask yourself. This is perfect. I can't think of a better way to conclude things. Jared, where can

everyone find you and follow you, follow your adventures? I'll have all of this in the show notes, but in case anyone is driving. Yeah. Well, my website is just my name.com. Um, and I'm pretty active on Instagram and active on YouTube and, um, my email again is on my website. Um, so if anyone would like to talk about specifically the most, more sensitive stuff that we talked about, please, please reach out because I can connect you with many resources that, that could help you out there. Hmm. Jared, thank you so much for sharing your powerful and important message with us today. I

really appreciate it. Thank you. This is a blast. I've been listening to your podcast for a long time, so it's an honor. And there you have it. Thank you so much for spending this time with me today. If you enjoyed this episode, I'd love it if you'd share with your friends and colleagues. Take a screenshot, post it on social media, and tag me. I'm mind over finger everywhere. I always love hearing your favorite takeaways. And if you're ready to take your playing career to the next level, I'd love to invite you to join the Music Mastery Experience. This is my signature group coaching program, where we're going to dive deep into building your confidence and mastery and set you up for success and fulfillment in your life and career. You can find all the details

at mindoverfinger.com. While you're there, check out the free downloads and online courses available to support your journey even further. And don't forget to subscribe to my newsletter so you never miss an update or a tool to help you thrive. Again, thank you for being here. Until next time, much love and à bientôt!