The Mind Over Finger Podcast - 221 Nina DeCesare: Beyond the Notes - Practicing with Purpose and Building a More Inclusive Future

Starting point is 00:00:00 Have you ever looked around and wondered, where are the people like me in this space? Or maybe you've asked yourself, what would it take to not just survive, but thrive in this industry? If you've ever questioned your place in the classical music world or struggled to find role models who reflect your values and identity, today's episode is absolutely for you. You're listening to the Mind Over Finger podcast, and this is episode 221. Welcome to the Mind Over Finger podcast, where we dive into the world of mindful music making, peak performance, and crafting a purpose-driven life and career. I'm your host, violinist, certified performance and life coach for musicians, and your guide to unlocking

Starting point is 00:00:50 your full potential, Dr. René-Paul Gaultier. Hello, everyone. I am so excited about today's guest, bassist Nina DeCesar. Nina has built an incredible career as a performer, teacher, and a leader using her voice and her platform to create real change. After five years in the Oregon Symphony, Nina joined the bass section of the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra in 2020. She's also performed with top-tier ensembles like the Cleveland Orchestra, LA Phil, Detroit Symphony, and Seattle Symphony. And she's very active as a soloist and chamber musician, performing for organizations, festivals, and series in the U.S. and abroad. Alongside her performing career, she's a passionate teacher and mentor, serving on the faculty at the Peabody Conservatory,

Starting point is 00:01:44 Domaine Forgette Académie, and the National Orchestra Institute. And she's not stopping there. In 2022, Nina founded the Artemis Bass Initiative, an incredible organization advancing the careers of women and non-binary bassists through mentorship, orchestral training, and professional development. Her work is opening doors and changing the face of our field, something that couldn't be more needed. In our conversation today, Nina shares her journey through the orchestral world, the mindset shifts that shaped her path, and the practice strategies that have helped her perform with clarity and confidence under pressure. We talked about performance preparation, how she supports her students in high-stakes situations,

Starting point is 00:02:33 and why representation and community matter so deeply in this work. Whether you're trying to refine your practice approach, or you're dreaming of reshaping the industry for future generations, this episode is full of insight, wisdom, and inspiration. So without further ado, here's my conversation with the fantastic, amazing Nina DeCesar. Let's go to the show. nina the caesar it's so great to have you on the show thank you yeah i'm so thrilled to be here i've heard so many wonderful things about you i've watched a lot of your video performances with which are so wonderful and um i love a lot of the the missions that you're covering on social media and we're going to get to that. I'm excited. I've talked about you in the introduction to this

Starting point is 00:03:35 episode, but I'm going to get to the first question I ask all of the guests, which is, we want to hear about you from you, from your own words. So can you please tell us a little bit about how your artistic journey unfolded? Yeah, that's a great question. So it actually started and ended, well, not ended, but is currently in Baltimore. So I grew up right outside of Baltimore, Maryland. And interestingly enough, I really wanted to play the flute when I was in elementary school because my mom played the flute and she said, your hands are too small because they don't make smaller flutes. And so she told me to pick a string instrument because that's what they taught in third grade. And I don't know if it was stubbornness or just because

Starting point is 00:04:19 I liked the sound when I heard it in the string orchestra, but I chose bass. I was immediately obsessed. I was constantly just playing and practicing whatever I could get my hands on, whether that was, you know, Disney songs, Christmas music, all of that. I just loved playing so much. And I was incredibly fortunate to be able to study with the renowned pedagogue of young bassists, George Vance. He wrote the Progressive Repertoire, which is basically the adaptation of Suzuki for double basis. And his life goal was to figure out how to best teach small children, young kids, whether that was sourcing smaller basis or, you know, teaching them to be able to play in, you know, higher positions without having any sort of baggage

Starting point is 00:05:12 around it. And a lot of the work that he did was along with Francois Rabat, who is an incredible virtuoso from, um, originally from Syria that now lives in Paris. Um, so I was really lucky to get to hear Francois play every, um, summer for the first few years I was playing bass. Um, and if any, if you've heard Francois play it, um, he has such a, a motive and, um, like the ease with which he plays and the musicality with which he plays is, is really, um, it, it makes a really strong impression and so that really formed kind of my approach to playing um there's a big emphasis from the Suzuki side of um George's teaching on memorization and and so that um has really carried through with me um and from there I went to Rice University and studied with Paul Ellison

Starting point is 00:06:04 um and I uh during my time in university I was um very focused on the idea of being a soloist Um, but after a certain amount of time, I decided, oh, well, you know, I'll try taking auditions. And I was very fortunate to, uh, win an audition pretty early on. Um, and so I left, uh, during my, my first year of my master's and started a section job in the Oregon symphony. Um, absolutely fell in love with Portland and with my colleagues there, it was just the most, um, kind and, um, like very like family feeling orchestra.

Starting point is 00:06:43 loved hiking and everything about Portland honestly but when there was an audition for a job in my hometown orchestra Baltimore Symphony I decided to take it so I actually took that audition just a few days before my wedding to my husband and so that was a really chaotic time but I was really fortunate that it worked out I moved to Baltimore during the pandemic which was lucky because the Oregon Symphony was unfortunately furloughed for over a year. And so I just got very lucky that the Baltimore Symphony started paying me pretty soon after the pandemic started. And since I've been at Baltimore, I was appointed to the faculty at Peabody, where I have between seven and nine students each year. And I've gotten back into

Starting point is 00:07:35 performing recitals really regularly. And yeah, that's basically it. I love it. It's so great that you have this coming home moment where you get to come back to your, as we say in French, the source of where it all started. And I love how you were told that your hands were too small for the flute and now you're playing double bass. It's fantastic. Yeah, my mom actually asked the elementary school strings teacher if my hands were too small for the bass and she was like, no, I don't think so. So that's amazing. And that's one of the things I love about your journey, too, is that there are so many preconceived notions about who can play what instrument and what are the prerequisite to, you know, have the ability to pick an instrument. And you're really just showing everybody that there's no such thing doesn't exist. And I know that you wrote a blog entry on the presence of women in the classical music industry and the bass sections of orchestra. Maybe why don't we just start there right away and we can get to all of the fun practicing performance stuff later. I know that you are in the process or have started already an organization called Artemis for women and non-binary musicians. Can you please tell us a little bit more about that? Yeah. So the idea of the Artemis-based initiative is basically to raise awareness and support for

Starting point is 00:09:00 women and non-binary basis. It was kind of born out of the fact that as a teacher, I see that there are so many, um, non-male basis, you know, um, before college. And then there's a bit of a drop-off in college. And then when we get to the professional, um, orchestra world, unfortunately, um, the majority of orchestras in the United States have, have no women or non-binary basis in them. Um, and there's only one that has more than one. Um, and you know, I think that in itself is challenging it's always difficult to be the only one anywhere um if anyone is is used to being the only woman in the room then you know uh regardless of um whether you get along with your colleagues and whether they're supportive there's always a sense of otherness um and even

Starting point is 00:09:51 more importantly for that and i um this is really important to me in regards to my students is you know, you can't, you can't be what you can't see. And so I so often see, um, younger, uh, students self-selecting out of, um, your orchestral route because, you know, they just don't think it's possible for them. Um, society socializes, uh, girls and non-binary basis from a young age, um, to unfortunately have less confidence and, um, you know, be, be quieter and try to play by their roles. And, um, so Artemis basically is born out of the idea that, um, with, uh, more empowerment and more awareness, um, we can really help to, um, make these changes on the professional level. And so, um, there's four basic tenants of the, of the first kind of initiative, which is

Starting point is 00:10:46 a mentorship program, a orchestral training program at the Curtis Symposium for Women and non-binary basis, a seminar series, which we have our third seminar coming up this week, and a set of scholarships for instruments and summer festivals. And so my hope is with all of these programs, each kind of tackles a different area of, you know, things that can really help students succeed. And so I'm hoping it'll create change and raise awareness. I love that. It's so important for things to start going in the direction that is more inclusive. What do you see as the things that need to change more rapidly? i what i would like to see is i would like to see more women and non-binary basis hired to faculty positions um it's not to say that men are not good at teaching non-men or that only women can teach

Starting point is 00:11:55 non-men um but uh there are certain aspects of playing base that um i think having a wider range of diversity in teaching, such as, you know, height is a big thing. So in my studio at Peabody currently, like my tallest student is 5'7", and I'm 5'4", and my shortest student is right around five feet. And the physical interaction with a base can be really different at that size than if you are over six feet. And if you look at the overall size of the average faculty-based teacher in the United States, most of them are larger men, and many of them have spent a lot of, have invested a lot of time and energy in learning how to teach people in smaller bodies, but even just that fact in itself is something that can be really helpful to just be a little more aware of,

Starting point is 00:12:48 and I think having more representation at the faculty level also creates built-in mentorship possibilities. There are many students that, especially when they're going through particularly challenging things, might feel more comfortable going to a teacher that they see themselves in when they might not feel quite as comfortable going to a male teacher. And so that's not to say we shouldn't have male-based teachers as well. I just think, you know, if we have a bit of more of an even split i think will really benefit um our students that are are actually close to an even split at this point yeah yes absolutely that aspect of representation is so important but also that aspect of students having the ability to find someone that will resonate

Starting point is 00:13:41 with the the things that they are going through and can understand from a personal perspective yeah exactly you talked about seminars please tell us a little bit about the type of topics that people can experience when they sign up for these seminars yeah so um the kind of pilot set of seminars um started with a panel discussion with myself and five other very successful female bassists at the top it was on international women's day and it was called um, women in base. Um, and it was hosted by the international society of basis. Um, the second seminar, um, which we will be posting a recording of soon on the Artemis website is, was a discussion of sexual misconduct in, um, the classical music field, um, raising awareness around, um, types of,

Starting point is 00:14:37 rules, boundaries, things with teachers, colleagues, etc. We had a very interesting discussion with many of the attendees answering questions for younger students that it's very aware when you speak to younger students about these kinds of difficult things that often they don't quite know what to do when they're in a tricky position. Um, so I think this kind of, um, awareness is, is so important for, for even just keeping students, um, safe at the base level. Um, so then our third, um, seminar is coming up this weekend. It is a seminar on orchestral leadership led by Robin Bollinger.

Starting point is 00:15:19 Oh, she's wonderful. Yeah, she's amazing. And, you know, um, it, it was kind of tricky to decide to have a non-base, non-bass player like so early in Artemis, but I also think that Robin is just like such an inspiring figure and the way that she stepped into her role as concert master at the Detroit Symphony as a younger woman is something that I really do want all of the Artemis mentees to see and learn from. And she's someone that I see myself in and I hope that the younger students are also able to see themselves and her as well. Um, and then following that, we will have a career skills presentation by

Starting point is 00:16:04 Mary Javian, who is the professor of career skills at Curtis Institute. And so that will be kind of a, um, a real professional development opportunity for, um, the Artemis mentees and anyone who wants to attend to learn about, um, you know, how can I present myself best in, in a professional atmosphere. Um, how could I put my best leg forward when, um, approaching my career, not necessarily, um, talking about orchestral auditions, but all of the other things that come into working as a professional musician. And the, um, last, well, we have two more seminars after that, I guess. So one is another panel discussion. This one will be for raising awareness and support for non-binary and trans basists, which is incredibly important right now, um, that we

Starting point is 00:16:53 are finding ways to hear from and learn from and support, um, anyone who, um, is, has a different gender identity than, um, you know, what they, uh, were, were born with, um, especially as the current administration is, you know, attacking their rights. So I think this is a really important time to be having this discussion. That one will also be hosted by the International Society of Basists. And then the last seminar for this first run will be a seminar on confidence by Susan Cahill, who is a professor at the University of Colorado Boulder. And so that will be an opportunity for the mentees and anyone who wants to attend to learn how to cultivate confidence in themselves and identify sources of doubt and figure out how to really build

Starting point is 00:17:51 themselves up to feel, you know, confident moving forward. I love that. All of those topics are so relevant, so important. And as you said, as it appears that we, maybe there's a tendency to want to move backwards on some issues, I think it's important to actually forge ahead with raising awareness on these very, very, very important topics. Where can people find information about Artemis and perhaps apply, sign up? Yeah, so there's a website, ArtemisBaseInitiative.com, and there's an Instagram page, also ArtemisBaseInitiative. All of it is linked from my personal Instagram, uh, and website pages. Um, so yeah. And from there, there's, there's places where you can sign up for individual seminars. Um, the mentorship program application

Starting point is 00:18:46 recently closed, but, um, the orchestral training program at Curtis is still open. And, um, so yeah, it's all online. Oh, that's fantastic. I think it's so important. And I really want to personally thank you for moving forward with this very important project and I'm going to put all of the links in the show notes for people to find this easily and I'm going to be following all of your activities very closely because this is definitely a mission that I believe in that's fantastic thank you so much Nina you have a career that I think you know all musician. Well, I shouldn't say that because I don't know all musicians, but let's say many musicians would dream of having the opportunity to do all of the things that we enjoy doing as

Starting point is 00:19:36 musicians. You perform still as a soloist, some chamber music, you play with an orchestra, you teach at the Peabody Conservatory. And as I've said, I've watched some of the video performances you're playing. It's just so beautiful, so beautiful, such great artistry. So I really want to talk to you a little bit about the first let's tackle the you know the the playing part of things i'd love to hear um your thoughts your perspective on what constitute effective practice how can one approach practice to get to a point where they feel that they can master their instrument and really hone in on the voice that they can share with the instrument yeah i think there's, uh, kind of three main, um, things that I, I try to make sure that I convey to my students

Starting point is 00:20:30 about, um, effective practice. The first is not even necessarily about individual practice sessions, but a bigger picture, um, setting goals, setting intentions, um, time management, um, working towards things in a really structured way, you know? Um, so some people do really well with like a practice journal and they plan out every single thing they're going to do. And I think that's really great that it, and that works for some people. For me, that doesn't really work because it's too structured and I end up kind of spacing out and then hitting things, but I kind of need to be a little more engaged in what I'm doing. So instead, I like to be very intentional about setting priorities for each practice session. So especially, for example,

Starting point is 00:21:20 if I'm preparing for an audition or a recital, um, always in the back of my head, I know like what needs the most work right now. And that's, that's where I start. And then, you know, as the practice session goes on and I have time, I'll add other things in. Um, but yeah, in general, like having a really structured plan. So for me, for auditions, um, I don't keep a practice journal, but I do make a chart with all of the different excerpts and all the dates. And then I, I cross each one off on each date. Um, and that way you can visually see how long it's been since you've worked on certain excerpts. Um, or, you know, if, if one is really giving you trouble, you can see that you've worked on it every day and it gives you a bit of like the dopamine hit of like, okay,

Starting point is 00:22:03 I'm, I'm accomplishing something. Um, so that, that's really important to me. And the other important thing to me for excerpts for audition preparation is keeping track of the tempos that I'm practicing at. I like to work things up slowly over time. And so I'll have a post-it on each excerpt and I'll put the date and then I'll put the tempo and I'll go up just a few clicks every day. And so that provides enough structure for me to know what I'm working on. But then as I'm doing it, I'm fully focused on what I'm doing. So that kind of brings me to the second part, which is making sure that I'm always being incredibly mindful during my practice. And so So that means if I play something and it doesn't go well, I'm not going to immediately do it a second time.

Starting point is 00:22:45 I'm going to stop and I'm going to identify the problem for string instruments and especially for bass. It's really important to isolate things. So, you know, there are things that are left hand issues. There are things that are right hand issues. There are things that appear to be right hand issues that are left hand issues and vice versa. and then there's the third layer of musicality you know is this am I creating the shapes that I want am I creating the dynamics and in exactly the way that I want is is everything kind of have I paid attention to the details away from the base enough to know exactly what I want to do and then now I'm focusing on the technical aspects of figuring out how to make that happen So when I practice, there's a lot of pausing and kind of, you know, addressing and what's the word I'm looking for? Assessing and then addressing. So that it's not just doing one thing over and over, but truly every single time I'm focused on one specific thing.

Starting point is 00:23:49 um and uh during like this kind of practice i also like to make sure once especially once things are starting to feel pretty good that i'm recording and so i'll record and then sometimes i listen back immediately sometimes i'll listen back the next day um the interaction between those two different um time periods is really interesting because when you listen back immediately generally you remember exactly what happened or you have baggage about what you just did and you hear that more distinctly versus a day later suddenly there's there's enough space to really view it a little bit more objectively but either way you want to make sure that you are spending the time to you know while you're playing focus on what you're doing so that when you're listening back

Starting point is 00:24:34 that's when you're listening and you're not critiquing yourself while you're playing and so this is kind of the transition to the third type of practice that I think is really important which is um kind of the switch to performance mode right so we have the type of brain that we're using when we're practicing which is very much like as i said uh assessing and addressing so we're like trying to figure out um what is happening and how we can do better and we really don't want to be doing that when we're performing whether that's an audition or a solo performance or chamber music we want to be making music um and the part of our brain that that sings and then the singing comes through the instrument. That is a completely different part of the brain than is thinking

Starting point is 00:25:16 about, wow, that just went wrong just now, right? Because we can't really do anything in a performance about what has already gone wrong. And so that's like the least helpful thing you can be focusing on. You really want to be engaged musically. I love that. I could not agree more with everything. I love it. And one of the things that you said at the beginning too is, and I'm paraphrasing, these are not your exact words, but it's figuring out what works for you. For example, I also love charts. Sometimes I'll use a practice journal, right? Because also different projects will call for a different way of keeping track of things. I love this aspect of mindfulness that you're talking about. I mean, as you might

Starting point is 00:26:01 guess with the name like Mind Over Finger. One of the things that I've been using recently is an interval timer because I find that sometimes I get really hyper-focused and I can go long stretch of time without pausing. And to reset intention, I'll have an interval timer and you can set it so it will go, you know, three minutes of work with 15 seconds of rest and have that repeated 25 times. And for me, that's been so helpful in every, you know, every three minutes it goes off and it, and then I'll take 15 seconds to just close my eyes and breathe, reset intention, let my brain quiet down. So that's been one of my favorite things to do recently, but yes, I love everything that you've shared. In one of the videos that I watched,

Starting point is 00:26:52 you were just talking about phrasing. I was just noticing how beautiful, organic your phrasing is and you know how everything feels so natural and and it just it's not even we don't feel like we're listening to an instrument bass it just is music it's absolutely wonderful and that's one of the questions i get a lot from listeners which is how does one work on musicality i'm very curious to hear what that's like for you when you work on musicality yeah i um this is this is a great question actually um and I can actually pinpoint one year that I worked so much on musicality and developing my ear because uh my sophomore year of college I unfortunately was so injured I had a nerve injury in my left shoulder um and I wasn't able to play for almost an entire year um and so

Starting point is 00:27:45 that year was interesting because there was a lot of just standing in front of a mirror and trying to make sure that I was like like you know body awareness and paying attention to biomechanics and making sure I was like relieving tension and playing in a healthy way. But the other aspect was so much listening to these, like just a few slow pieces that I was working on, like very simple pieces that I'd known since I was like 12. One of them was a present riff by foray. And so I'd listened to like 20 different recordings and every single one, I would really pay attention to what was happening with the phrasing. And I was paying attention to, um, which, which, uh, recordings I was really drawn

Starting point is 00:28:30 to and I had a really strong emotional impact and then kind of, um, picking that apart and figuring out like, well, what is that? How is that? Um, and so then like when I was able to start playing a little bit again, it was, uh, very focused on, you know, staying relaxed, but also just, um, try I'd already figured out exactly in my head by mental practice, how I wanted everything to sound and then figuring out how to, um, make it actually like happen physically. Um, and I think this is something that jazz players, I mean, I'm not, I don't do jazz, but I think this is something they do a lot where they, they learn, um, like

Starting point is 00:29:05 famous, like jazz solos and stuff. And they, they copy the phrasing exactly. Um, and I think it's so helpful to, um, mimic something that you feel really, um, emotionally connected to, you know, and, and mimic every nuance and, you know, the overall shape of everything and really commit to it, especially when it's something that's easy enough that you're not worried about things like shifts and all that. Um, and, and so that, I think that's, that's been really impactful for me. Um, and I, I've noticed it's difficult to get students to do this sometimes because it's such a it's like a quiet moment you know and it feels like oh I don't have time to do that you know when you're really busy as a college student but I think it's one of the most helpful things

Starting point is 00:29:49 you can do I love that because it teaches you the mechanics necessary to create what your mind hears yeah I love how Kenny Warner talks about that in his book when he talks about how you know some people sometimes see as being too focused on technique as a bad thing. And it can be if that's the only thing that you're focused on for sure. But increasing your technique definitely gives you more tools for expression. So I love this approach of really creating a vivid experience of what things sound and what it takes to recreate that. That's fantastic. Yeah. And ideally it becomes second nature, you know, when you do it enough with easy pieces and then, you know, you work on something harder and those skills are still there because you're, what you're hearing in your brain knows how to translate to your hands better than, you know, automatically rather than your brain telling your hands, you know, if that makes sense. Yeah, yes. Yeah, that makes so much sense. I love that. And it's really great to see how, I mean, I'm sorry that you had to deal with this injury, of course, but how in many ways, the injury was a gift in pushing you to get very creative with the ways that you could continue your progress, your journey.

Starting point is 00:31:13 I'm so glad that you recovered that you you know were able to to heal properly with this really mindful approach that you describe and I think that is very inspiring for people first of all on how to listen to the body slow down make sure that you're taking the proper steps to heal but also then where are the gifts in this situation? Yeah. And, you know, I think the path of any classical musician is going to be filled with obstacles and challenges and not all of them will have a silver lining, but if, if it's possible to find a silver lining, it's it, I think it really helps to lighten the load of moving through this difficult

Starting point is 00:32:01 career path, you know? Yeah, yeah. One question that I think the listeners would be upset that I, if I didn't ask, would be about preparing for performance. You talked about how it's a different type of practice. And that's something that I talk a lot about as well in podcasts and with all of my clients. I really believe that it's true. you talked about recording yourself. Can you tell us a little bit more about how you prepare for performance and how that differentiates from practice practice? Yeah. So, um, the week before a performance or two weeks before an audition, well, maybe, yeah, between one and two weeks before anything, um, I'll basically stop practicing and start doing run-throughs. Um, and I'm only focused on music and, you know, every now and then it becomes clear that something still needs a little more detail work and I'll, I'll try to do that as quickly as possible. But, um, for me,

Starting point is 00:32:56 there has to be kind of an aspect of letting go. Um, because, um, and this is, I think I read this in inner game of tennis. It's like, you know, if we focus too hard on hitting the ball with a tennis racket, like if we're focused on what our hand is doing, we'll actually do worse than if we just like let our body do it because our body knows how to, you know, play base better than our brain does. Right. And so, um, after all of the work in the practice room, then it's like, you know, being able to be fully engaged in, in like kind of in performance mode, I think is, is the last step for me. So yeah, I just do run-throughs and I try to rest my hands a lot because, you know, bass is tiring and the fresher my hands are, the better things feel.

Starting point is 00:33:39 And when you do these run-throughs, do you record yourself a lot as well? Usually, yeah, especially for auditions, less so for recitals. I think I'm better at the excruciating process of preparing for an audition. And with recitals, I like to be a little kinder to myself. You know, it would probably sound a little better if I did record myself and go through all of that. But the stakes are a little lower, so I've avoided it so far. it's one of the hardest things to remember i think and it's one of the things that i have the hardest time convincing clients of doing more is recording themselves because it's easy to be lured by the um working aspects of practicing and it feels like recording is for lack of a better word uh wasting time because you're not actively playing but it is such a great way to to see what is actually going on yeah totally nina before i let you go can we please do a quick round of rapid fire questions

Starting point is 00:34:42 i want to start with a question that i really love and don't ask quite enough which is about thoughts or one thought that perhaps either change your life or a thought that supports you yeah um so one thing that comes to mind so right before i took the audition for baltimore i um I had just finished Game of Thrones and there's this, there's this saying that Arya, Arya Stark always says, um, which is not today. And the idea of that was, and you know, it's, this isn't exactly it, but the idea for me was like, okay, there's fear, but also like today is not the, today's not the day to like, let the fear win, you know, for her, it was like, not, not today. Like death isn't going to win. Um, you know, luckily for us, it's not really life or death, but for me, it was a bit

Starting point is 00:35:34 of a mantra. And it was like, okay, not like, um, all of the doubts and insecurities and concerns and thinking like, oh, well, you know, I'm taking this audition right before my wedding and it's my hometown and my family's there. How heartbroken would I be? You know, all of that. And I would kind of counteract it with this idea of like, okay, not today. And so that was kind of a thing for me, um, for, for quite a while after that. And, um, I think I've felt more confidence at this point, so I don't feel the need to, to come back to that mantra as much, but it was definitely really impactful then. I love that. And I just want to underline how sometimes you practice the thought enough that it helps you develop either more confidence or, or anything else to a point

Starting point is 00:36:16 where you don't even need it anymore. And it really shows how sometimes a thought that you don't really believe quite yet with enough practice you absorb it it becomes part of you and you fully you know adhere to it and believe it that's great very powerful before i started recording we talked about maybe book recommendations and you said you had some books to recommend yeah well okay i'll start so there's like a few fiction books i've read recently that are incredible and I think everyone should read them. So that's Demon Copperhead by Barbara King Soliver, Babel by R.F. Kuang. And this is not a new book, but Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood, very relevant. So yeah, I would definitely recommend those three for sure, even though

Starting point is 00:37:07 they're not anything to do with music, but I think just broadening our kind of minds in general is helpful. Yes. Okay. Thank you. I needed some book recommendations. So that works really well for me. One of the big things in, in, in my life for me as a musician, but also in my work as a coach is making sure that practice is enjoyable, fulfilling, however you want to call it. What are some of the ways that you make your practice feel either enjoyable, fulfilling, enriching um i think like the ritual is is kind of helpful sometimes so um i used to be like a big fan of energy drinks and i've thankfully quit that by now but um i was kind of um in a phase of taking a few auditions some you know in the past few years and i would always light a candle and

Starting point is 00:38:01 then i would like have an energy drink and um i would sit down and you know i would make a kind of a plan, you know, just like look over and figure out how much time I had. And I think starting with some sort of like, okay, now we're doing this type of thing, you know, as simple as it is just like lighting a candle feels like, okay, like this is, this is time for me to be doing this. And yeah, as I mentioned earlier, the dopamine hit of marking things off of a list can be really helpful for feeling like you're being productive and you're getting somewhere because I think one of the challenges of practicing for us is like, it's so hard to measure, you know, and there's kind of a feeling of there's never too much, right? Like I could

Starting point is 00:38:46 practice eight hours a day for the next 60 years and probably still have work to do. So I think just having like small manageable goals, like just, you know, I'm going to check off six excerpts a day is something that like, it makes it easier to kind of feel like we're getting something done. yes yes couldn't agree more with all of these things um what is a habit that you have that you think contributed to your success i don't know um i'm a perfectionist for sure but i also think that's been as unhelpful as it was helpful um yeah i don't have a good answer for that But I think what you just said is important, too, because certain things get a bad rep, but they're not intrinsically bad. So perfectionism can be very helpful and it can be very destructive.

Starting point is 00:39:40 That's one of my favorite quotes from Gretchen Rubin, which is the opposite of an absolute truth is also true. So sometimes laziness can be good if you're exhausted. um you know what i mean it's it's uh it's very important to keep in mind that there are to use the word i use earlier there are gifts in everything and there are some negative effects as well so it's how can we be mindful about those things do you have a favorite tool in the practice room oh um i don't know metronome maybe that's a really great one in the light of all of the work that you do with artemis and your students and your own experience what is a skill that you think young musicians should develop

Starting point is 00:40:31 today i think it's really important to um to realize that okay so i always tell my students there's a hundred different ways to play bass really well right and um especially in the bass community, you know, there's French bow, German bow, sitting, standing, bent pin, straight pin, orchestral playing, solo playing. And sometimes it feels like different camps and like, oh, well, you have to do it this way. You have to do it this way. And so I think one skill that's really important is being able to absorb everything that you learn and put it in a toolbox and then figure out what is working and when to take different things and to never shut your ears to something just because you've been told not to do that or because you, it automatically seems

Starting point is 00:41:19 wrong to you. And instead it's really important to just figure out exactly why or where someone's coming from or why they might do that or why it works for this person, you know? And I think that's really important as a person too. It's like, it's so easy, especially right now in the current environment to immediately be repelled by things that we don't agree with. And it's actually more important right now to figure out why the other person thinks this or is acting this way or believes this or is yeah um and and so i think it's just finding a way to instead of decide immediately yes or no really think critically and absorb and just it's all information that we can use really well said beautiful finally do you have a quick actionable

Starting point is 00:42:09 that the listeners could implement today, either in the practice room, their musical lives or anywhere else? I think the one that is, I'm always telling my students, it's like when something isn't working, stop and figure out why it isn't working. And so, yeah, that's good for practicing.

Starting point is 00:42:27 That's good for life. It's easier to keep doing the same thing over and over, but that's not growth. So growth comes from stopping and making changes. I love that. That's great. Nina, thank you so much for taking this time, sitting with me today, sharing your insight, your wisdom.

Starting point is 00:42:49 I have so much admiration for all of the things that you're doing. And I feel like overall, you're such a great role model for all of us musicians. And yeah, I'm just so grateful that I had a chance to speak with you today. Well, thank you for having me. This was super fun. Hope to see you in person sometime. That would be great. Yes.

Starting point is 00:43:19 And there you have it. Thank you so much for spending this time with me today. If you enjoyed this episode, I'd love it if you'd share with your friends and colleagues. Take a screenshot, post it on social media and tag me. I'm mind over finger everywhere. I always love hearing your favorite takeaways. And if you're ready to take your playing career to the next level,

Starting point is 00:43:42 I'd love to invite you to join the Music Mastery Experience. This is my signature group coaching program where we're going to dive deep into building your confidence and mastery and set you up for success and fulfillment in your life and career. You can find all the details at mindoverfinger.com. While you're there, check out the free downloads and online courses available to support your journey even further. And don't forget to subscribe to my newsletter so you never miss an update or a tool to help you thrive. Again, thank you for being here. Until next time,

Starting point is 00:44:22 much love and à bientôt! Thanks for watching!

The Mind Over Finger Podcast - 221 Nina DeCesare: Beyond the Notes - Practicing with Purpose and Building a More Inclusive Future

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