The Mindset Mentor - Grow a Billion Dollar Business w/ Tom Bilyeu

Episode Date: January 17, 2020

This is an interview from 2015 with Tom Bilyeu is the Co-Founder of Quest Nutrition. In early 2019, he sold his company for $1 Billion and in this episode we dive deep into the mindset of what it takes to be successful.Follow me on Instagram @RobDialJr https://www.instagram.com/robdialjr/Try out Skillshare https://www.skillshare.com/mindset Want to learn more about Mindset Mentor+? For nearly nine years, the Mindset Mentor Podcast has guided you through life's ups and downs. Now, you can dive even deeper with Mindset Mentor Plus. Turn every podcast lesson into real-world results with detailed worksheets, journaling prompts, and a supportive community of like-minded people. Enjoy monthly live Q&A sessions with me, and all this for less than a dollar a day. If you’re committed to real, lasting change, this is for you.Join here 👉 www.mindsetmentor.com My first book that I’ve ever written is now available. It’s called LEVEL UP and It’s a step-by-step guide to go from where you are now, to where you want to be as fast as possible.📚If you want to order yours today, you can just head over to robdial.com/bookHere are some useful links for you… If you want access to a multitude of life advice, self development tips, and exclusive content daily that will help you improve your life, then you can follow me around the web at these links here:Instagram TikTokFacebookYoutube

Welcome to today's episode. I am so excited to share this episode with you guys. Today, we have Tom Bilyeu, who is the president and co-founder of Quest Nutrition. And to give you an idea, Quest Nutrition, within its first three years, grew 57,000%. And that's not me making a mistake. Actually 57,000%. They're the number two fastest growing company by Inc. Magazine for a private company. And he has an incredible mindset. And I saw him on other podcasts and I had to get him on to question him because I thought he would bring so much value. And he does him on other podcasts and I had to get him on to question him because I thought he would bring so much value. And he does not let you down in this episode. So I'm so excited to bring it to you. So without further ado, here's the episode with Tom Bilyeu. Welcome to today's

podcast. I'm honored to have Tom Bilyeu here, who is one of the co-founders of Quest. And I want to tell you thank you for being here because number one, I love Quest bars. I had never had a Quest bar before I heard you on the very first podcast. And I actually tried to shy away from having protein bars or any of those bars because there's so much sugar in them. And fitness is such a big thing in my life and I know what sugar does to you. And then I realized that you don't have sugar or extremely small amounts. It's like maybe one gram of sugar in all of your bars, but they still taste really good. And I was like, man, I need to try these then. I tried them, loved it, was super impressed by it. And then I went to Tony Robbins conference a a couple of months ago, and they gave out free Quest bars there.

I don't know if you knew. Did you know they give them in the bags for free? Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Tony, I mean, we got involved with Tony because I'm such a believer. Yeah, absolutely. So let me ask you this. of where you've been. And then the journey that you've been on for Quest and leaving the other position that you were in with your partners grew 57,000% in the first three years, if I'm not

mistaken, 57,000. Yeah, that's correct. And one of the fastest growing companies in America. But can you tell me about, for people who haven't heard of you before or don't know much about Quest Nutrition, the journey that you've been on and kind of how you and your partners went about starting the company? Yeah, for sure. So first of all, Rob, thank you so much, man, for having me on. It's really cool. I think that your podcast is utterly fantastic. Thank you. Yeah, you're doing a great job. You're killing it. You bring in a lot of super useful advice. I like the way you describe it as a no BS podcast. I think you live up to that. You've Got some really hard hitting stuff. So hopefully I can live up to the standard here. I think so. Yeah. Well, thank you. To answer your question, my partners and I chase money for a long

time. So I always tell people I sold eight and a half years of my life very cheaply because I was totally focused on. And the irony is that even though we had a significant amount of success doing that, it doesn't bring what you think it's going to bring you, right? Like money is not an end in and of itself. It's a facilitator. And when you know what you want it to facilitate, then it's beautiful. It's powerful. It's incredible. But when you don't, when all you want is more dollars in your bank account, at least for somebody like me, it's super unfulfilling.

You wake up one day and you're like, hey, I'm successful and I hate my life. This is a joke. We decided instead of doing that, we're going to sell the company and we're going to build something from the ground up that was designed to bring value. We didn't know, are we about to ruin our financial lives? Are we about to throw away all the money we made in the last company on this crazy dream? Because we didn't know if it could be a company or not. And the answer is yes, that when you place value at the forefront of everything you do, it is just a profound way to engage with customers, to get them excited about your product, to feel good, to have the energy, to really tap into your passion. And, you know, when you've got passion for something, it really allows you to fight when things get hard. And so that that decision

has been transformative for us. I love that. And I've heard you speak about it. I think it was when you actually interviewed Tony Robbins. And one thing that you said was that in some of the other interviews I've listened to, you say that you guys decided to start your own company and go off and leave the company that you're at and you sold it. But I think first, what happened is you decided that you were not fulfilled by this company and that money was not fulfilling you. And you, in a sense, metaphorically pushed all of your shares over to them and said, Hey, listen, if I don't think if I finished the race with you guys, I deserve this. So take my part of the company. And they actually came back to you. Is that true?

Can you share that story a little bit? Yeah, it's funny. The first time I ever shared that was with Tony. And he just has a way of bringing in stuff like that out. It's pretty incredible. So yeah, I was being very sincere. I was chasing money. It left me very unfulfilled. And I hit emotional rock bottom. For me, I just realized, wow, I'm living the cliche of money can't buy happiness. And that's super ironic, because I truly understand the power of money. Like I know what it can do for people. So how is it that I've come into more money than I've ever had in my life? And I started out like there was a time in my life where I was scrounging in the couch cushions to find enough change to put

gas in my car. It's actually a real story. So that's where I start. And now I'm making money. I have ownership in this company. Things are going well. And I'm so unhappy that I finally get to a breaking point. I go into my partners and I say, as you said, you know, I metaphorically slide the equity back across the table. And I said, look, if I don't cross the finish line, as you said, I metaphorically slide the equity back across the table. And I said, look, if I don't cross the finish line, I don't believe I should get anything for that. That was, one, an important moment for me, right, where you get the chance to live by your code of ethics. And I just have a certain belief system, and I try to live up to that every day. So that was a very real moment.

It was like this – what I'm doing now has tangible value. It's seven figures. But because I'm essentially leaving you guys, I don't think I should get any games. So I go home. I think it's all over. And they called me up on the phone. Literally, as I'm pulling into my driveway thinking I'm starting this new life unencumbered by the pursuit of wealth. And they say, hey, come back, come out to

dinner with us. And these are two guys that I truly, truly love. And, and I mean, you know what it's like when you've got guys and you think of your brothers, like you'll do anything for them. So a dinner, like that's not too much to ask. So I turn around, I drive back out, I meet them and they, they say the now famous line, which was, we could do this without you, but we don't want to. And I just, it stopped me in my tracks, man. And I was like, at that moment, which was, we could do this without you, but we don't want to. And that just stopped me in my tracks, man. And I was like, at that moment, that was what I needed to hear because I'd really lost that connection. Like it really had become all about the money. And we had this agreement where we were going to do whatever it took to make the company more profitable. So if

that meant not going on a vacation, skipping an anniversary, meeting up at 2am on a Saturday, all things that I actually did, by the way, then we at 2 a.m. on a Saturday, all things that I actually did, by the way, then we would do it. And you just ground it out and you really tried to make it happen. And so for me, I had really lost touch with, well, what drew me to this in the first place is being on a team, being a part of something bigger than myself. And so I finally like confessed and was like, look, the reason that I hit emotional rock bottom was I have not been honest about what my value system really is. And I have allowed myself to try to convince everyone and myself that my highest value is money and it's not. And that was like blasphemy at the time, right?

Because at the time it was like, hey, we have this pact. We'll do whatever it takes. And here I am saying, actually, that's not very high on my list. So I said, look, the truth of the matter is for me, and it was really one of those things that was sort of hitting me as I was saying it. The truth of the matter is that the camaraderie is the thing I value the most. It's the connection between the three of us that means the most to me. And when I think about the things in my life that are valuable, most to me. And when I think about the things in my life that are valuable, that if you took those away, then I would really, I would really suffer are just the relationships with a very, very small handful of people. And those two people happen to be in it. So once I said that, then it allowed

them to say the same thing, which is we feel exactly the same way. So we decide that we're going to sell this company and the next company is going to be about the brotherhood. It's going to be about delivering value. It's going to be about being on a team and doing something bigger than ourselves, fighting to just deliver value. And if you can create wealth out of that, great. But we honestly didn't know if we could. And obviously the answer becomes yes. And our current company, Quest Nutrition, makes more a day than our last company made annually. Wow. And that's awesome, right?

That's such a cool punchline to the story of three guys saying, I'm going to prioritize the friendship. I'm going to prioritize value over money. And money comes in like this exponentially bigger way. Yeah, absolutely. And I've heard you talk about the difference between your momentary happiness and the framework happiness. So for people who have never heard of that before, I think you kind of said a little bit about it and it makes sense, but what's the difference between momentary happiness and framework happiness? And obviously you're probably 100 times happier than you were at the point when you decided to leave

and I think it's because you went for your framework happiness more than anything else. Yeah, that's spot on. And the truth is, you and I were talking about this before we started recording, and we're both into psychology, right? We understand the power of the mind. And you talk a lot about that in your podcast and really powerfully. And I think that what allows you to talk about it powerfully is that you're down to the level of dopamine receptors and things like that, right? And when you get into the nitty gritty, when you understand the mechanism, then it's like, okay, I'm not going to be a slave to this

merely because I understand it now I can control it, right? So I talk a lot about wanting to be a Jedi. And the reason I say I want to be a Jedi, I'm not trying to control other people's minds. I want to understand how things work to the point that I can influence them, right? I want to influence the system. And I'm most interested in control over my own mind. So delving into that, understanding that led me to realize there's – wait a second.

There's two different kinds of happiness and people tell you they want to be happy. And what they do is they pursue all these things that are hyper-transient. A bowl of ice cream is amazing. You can put somebody in an fMRI machine. You're going to see they actually are happier. Like they're not faking it. And there's all kinds of things like that, right? So money, sex, drugs, like there's just a litany of things that are, that really do deliver on the promise of momentary happiness,

but it's not lasting and oftentimes can get you in a negative cycle. And if you look at drugs, that one's pretty clear that the negative cycle that that gets people in where they so need that next secretion of dopamine or serotonin or whatever system in the brain they're playing with. So it made me realize how come it is that I hate going to the gym and yet lifting, showing up every day, putting in the work, really being able to push myself past the point of pain, grind it, change who I am as a person. Why does that make me feel so good? And it made me realize in some ways, framework happiness is actually born out of suffering. It's born out of discipline, self-denial, because what it is, it's about becoming something, right? I want to become something. And anytime you're going through transformation, change, like change is hard, change hurts, change forces you to look at inadequacies.

And that's something that I think people are super afraid to do, which I will never understand. Because until you can look nakedly at where you suck, until you can look nakedly at that and say, I need to get good at that in order to accomplish my goal, you'll pacify yourself with the things you already do good and you'll stay where you are. And there's an awesome story to this. Arnold Schwarzenegger used to think his calves were terrible right this big beefy guy like arguably the greatest physique of all time and he was unhappy with his calves right so what does he do he covers up every part of his body in like thick sweatpants so that he can't impress himself in the mirror right and then cuts the bottom of his sweatpants off. So the only thing that's visible are his caps. That is somebody who's willing to look at his weaknesses

and say, I'm going to be great because of my willingness to look at where I'm weak. And I think that's where a lot of people go wrong. They're so afraid to assess where they're weak, not understanding that assessing where you're weak and building on that is part of that becoming, which is part of framework happiness, which is what gives you that lasting sense. Man, I love that. And it's, I think more than anything else, it comes down to self-awareness more than anything else. And it seems like from everything that I've, every time

I've heard you talk, everything I've looked up, you are extremely self-aware of your flaws, of your strengths, of everything. And I want to ask you, with that self-awareness, it's exactly the same thing where you're talking about with Arnold Schwarzenegger. He was aware, he was self-aware that his problem was his calves and he highlighted just his calves. So have you always been extremely self-aware or was that something that you realized? And how do you think that you cultivate something like that in a business, but also in the people that are around you as well? I'm really an incredibly late bloomer.

So I am living proof that the brain does not stop developing until you're 25. So, and that really has played out in my life. So when I was younger, I really did not show signs of promise. My own mother who has always been my biggest cheerleader, but she just quietly assumed I was going to fail. So when I left for college, she was like, Oh my gosh, good luck. You know, in her head thinking you're going to be back soon. Um, so that, that really was me.

Like people want this tale of, Oh no, really? Come on, stop being bashful. Like you really must have been exceptional. I really wasn't. I wasn't voted most likely to succeed. Like none of that. None of that was my childhood. But I had belief that I could accomplish big things. So I maybe had no earthly right to believe that, but I did believe it. And I thought, OK, if I work hard enough and learn enough, like I can

get there. Now I struggle a lot with a fixed mindset. So it was like, while I believe that I could get better at things, there were certain things that I thought, okay, this is fixed forever. Yeah. Um, so I had, I had, um, I forget what Carol Dweck calls it, but basically, you know, the growth mindset is a spectrum. I wasn't all the way to fixed closed, but I still had a lot of perspective. That is the most important book in the English language. Anybody listening to this podcast right now, read that book. It will change your life. Mindset by Carol Dweck is an incredible book, which talks about the fixed mindset versus the growth mindset.

So I think that personally, my mom was always obsessed with Tony Robbins when I was a kid. So I was at least able to listen to that. She taught me about visualization when I was 13. So I think I've maybe always had a growth mindset. Do you feel like you used to have a fixed mindset and you transitioned yourself into a growth mindset then? A hundred percent.

Really? A hundred percent. Literally, so my life is dedicated in no uncertain terms to helping as many people as I can go from a fixed mindset to a growth mindset. Why? Because I went from scrounging in the cushions to find enough change to put gas in my car, clipping coupons, making my wife poor. I mean, all of that to founding and running a billion dollar over a billion dollar company.

Yeah. So, dude, that is massive, right? Every element of my life is different from the health care that my parents have to my day to day life. And just every aspect of my life is different. And it's so easy to track back to what caused that. And it was simply changing my mindset from fixed to growth. Now, why is that powerful? Because all of us right now, whatever your goal is, the only

guarantee I can make you, you're not yet the person you need to be to reach that goal. And if you are, your goal sucks, right? You need to set higher goals. So like at that point, then to me, life is literally about crossing that chasm between who I am today and who I need to become in order to accomplish my goal. So, okay, rad. Well, if you've got a fixed mindset, you're either going to set these ridiculously small goals that you know you can accomplish, that you can feel good about yourself. Or you're going to have to accept that you can improve. It's the only thing that's going to give you the courage to set that goal way the hell out there. Right. So once, and look, it was reading hundreds of books.

Unfortunately, I didn't find Carol Dweck's book until way late. Uh, but reading just hundreds of books, uh, talking to anybody I could learning any lesson I could, and slowly over time, building the taking like one Lego at a time to create the growth mindset. And it for me, it was a process. I did not grow up with it. So let me ask you this, because I the way that actually we connected was through Jeff Hoffman. And I was talking to him about his interview process that he had gone through. He brought it up. And I was like, hey, I don't know if you've ever heard this interview process and talked about, because I thought yours was incredible that you kind of have people interview you in a sense to figure out how much time they're going to spend there. They might as well make sure that it's

right for them. And we were talking about it. And in that sense, you say that you try to look for people who have a growth mindset. But what do you do to take somebody from the fixed mindset and grow them into the growth mindset? Is there specific steps you can do? Or do you just say, hey, read the book? Or is that kind of what Inside Quest is developed for? What's the steps about going and taking someone from fixed into a growth mindset? Rob, you are asking the million dollar question right now. So here is the truth. I don't know, man. And I really think that I'm learning some hard lessons that I have a fear that all I am is a filter.

And I am simply looking for people that are ready to take that first step. Because I've led 10,000 horses, horse eye, horse ease. I've led a lot of horses to water, right? And they don't drink. And so let's say you've got 10,000 horses standing at the edge of the water and six drink. Now those six will change your life. They'll change your company. They'll go on to do something. They'll solve problems in society. They will make real contributions to their life and to the rest of the world. But all of the other people, dude, I've spent a lot, a lot, a lot of time because you have to understand why I do it, right? I know what my life was like.

It was not good. It was emotionally dark. I felt – that's why I use the analogy of the matrix. I felt like I was trapped. I felt like my life could be more, but I didn't know how to make it more. And once someone had me take the red pill and I woke up in the real world and I realized, whoa, everything is my responsibility. I can't blame other people anymore. I have that I can learn to do anything which means if I can't do something that would be useful that was a choice that I made I have chosen not to learn that skill right so whoa that realization that it's

all in my control still I can do something about it starting today and then you start doing that stuff and wow it changes everything and I went the only thing people need to understand, I went from really profoundly unhappy to really like spiritually fulfilled. And I want to help people do that, right? It's like when you get into fitness, right? And you see somebody really struggling and you just want to help. It's like, dude, I know what waits for you on the other side of the transformation. And you will feel like a million times.

You will feel better about yourself. You won't ache like the mental fog that comes with a poor diet. Like it all goes away. And it really is beautiful on this side. But some people just not ready for it. So if I had a magic answer, I would give it to you. But Inside Quest is the filter.

Inside Quest, if people actually watch it and they actually do what the people on the show say to do it will change their life yeah how many people will actually do it less than less than five percent yeah and that's the that's the sad thing and honestly like people use the phrase all the time where it's like this is what keeps me up at night and it's like just i hate that phrase but in my mind that is what keeps me up at night where And it's like, just, I hate that phrase, but in my mind, that is what keeps me up at night where I'm just like, how can, with my podcast, how can I impact as many people as possible? Cause I know that, you know, I get at least 5,000 people listen to every single episode. I know that for a fact,

but I know deep down that maybe 50 are going and doing everything that I'm, that they're hearing or that I'm saying. So it leaves this mass amount of people. And in my head, I'm going, what can I do personally to get these people to take action to really make change in their life? And I think it's like you said, you really can't do anything. You just have to put it out there. And eventually someone's going to hear it enough and go, all right, maybe today's the day I should go and make some change. Maybe today's the day that I don't go to the gym or I go to the gym and stop eating the bonbons or something like that. So I will today, Rob, you and I, we're going to make a blood brother pack here. So I have a belief, which you will, I think, see fits in with my belief system on a long enough timeline. I can get anyone to do anything that's good for them.

I can't get them to do things though against their beliefs or that will ultimately be bad for them. I can't get them to do things, go against their beliefs or that will ultimately be bad for them. But when it really, because then I can do tiny little incremental changes and they'll see, oh, okay, well I actually do feel better, which then gets you the next one and the next one and the next one. Now, my belief, what you're doing right now

is going to echo through this world. And here's how it's gonna echo those 50 people you're going to bleed for them you're gonna put out every day and I hear in your voice when you do this man like you really like you have mined the depths of your intellect and experience and you are bringing it to people in the most raw and authentic and real way that you know how and you put it out and you let them do with it what they will those 50 people are actually going to do something they're going to change they're going to get a little bit better and a little bit better and they're going to touch somebody and then that

person's going to get a little bit and a little bit better and that to me like the whenever it's about changing the world right and when most people say that rob they don't mean it man they're empty dreaming and they're not prepared to take the steps that is actually going to require them to accomplish that i am not an empty dreamer i'm asking every day what are the limits of my current skill set what do i have to address in order to accomplish this but i firmly believe the core of my being that because humans like to help humans man if you can touch 50 people and give them real advice that's the thing it's got to be real it's got to actually work right if you can give them real information that they could use in their life it will snowball and you just have to give it time yeah that's why you show up every

day with passion I show up every day to passion we get enough people that are really committed to giving people the information that they need to become the best version of themselves then then it will snowball. I love it. So, so take me perfect segue into inside quest, which I can see you're in the inside quest studios, which is awesome. Um, what was your, what was your motivation for going in and doing this? Was it a little bit of, you want to impact everybody, but also there was still like, damn, I could probably get some really good people in here and ask them questions that I want to know where it's like, cause, cause personally, I think when I have people on the show, it's a little bit of some selfishness, but that selfishness

also is what most people are probably thinking as well. Um, most people want to know. So what was the reason why you decided to start inside quest? And for those who don't know what it is, it's, uh, on YouTube, it's, it's basically a nicer version of a podcast. You can see everybody, super high quality. And you guys have an actual studio audience, which I think are people who work for your company. And so take me inside the idea. Did it just pop in your head one day and you said, oh, that's the perfect idea? Or was this something you've been working on for a while? It's actually something that the media team here had pitched for a while that they really wanted to do something where i originally they thought of it as like a reality show right

like you said that we grew by 57 000 three years imagine what that looks like when you're in the middle of it right going from three founders six total people to just a few years later you're in the middle of it, right? Going from three founders, six total people to just a few years later, you're at 1400 employees. You're the second fastest growing company in America. I mean, it was, it was bonkers. And people kept saying, dude, we've got to like, if nothing else, people have to see the way you interview, right? Because my interviews are just super bizarre. Right. And I was so uncomfortable with that. I had no desire to be out front. I really didn't have a desire to have cameras around. It's like because every day was about falling down and figuring out how to get back up and move forward.

It was not glamorous. It was clumsy and awkward and ugly and every mistake that you can make. But in a group of people that really believe in the power of that, so we're reinforcing all the lessons and teaching each other. in the power of that so we're reinforcing all the lessons and teaching each other and it was it was really fun but just seemed like god i i didn't want to cheapen it by trying to make it good tv how about that right so i i had pushed back for a long time and then finally we started um thinking about a way that we could do that was a little more true to um who i am as a person so i i really enjoy amazing conversation so i wanted wanted to be able to, like you were saying, find these amazing people. Like I'm reading their books. I'm watching them on YouTube.

I think they're incredible. And I think they have really useful information. So a chance to get them on. And one thing that was important to me about the show, and we're getting there more so now, it was a lot less in the beginning, but I didn't want it to be just question and answer right i wanted it to be a dialogue so i just do a crazy amount of research on the people that come on the show so that we can get past what i call their loop yeah so most people that get interviewed they have a loop right and if you watch seven interviews that they do, they get the same interview seven times. And I wanted to go, okay, our show is going to be about where they go beyond the loop. We've had varying degrees of success because people are so comfortable there. But yeah, it's, it is, it's design is very simple.

I want to get people out of the matrix. Yeah. And I love it. And so you said something about it real quick is your, your interview process, your interview process is so weird. And I think that's when I originally heard you was on Lewis House podcast. And I went, man, that is incredible. I've never heard anything like that. Because being from Cutco, by the time I was 23, I'd interviewed over 2000 people. It's just like part of the way Cutco goes. So I was like, damn, I wish I would have just sat down and been able

to be like, hey, interview me. It probably made my job a lot easier because I would have had to talk less. But I was just so fascinated with the fact that you bring people in and I guess in a sense, try to get them out of their loop, right? Their interview loop is what it would be. So for people who don't have any idea, tell us a little bit about the interview process and what's your motive is of doing the interview the way that you do? So I made a promise when we started the company that I would work every day to make sure that Quest is the most beautiful thing that ever happened to anybody that worked here. Yeah. Definitely have not gotten there yet. There's some people that absolutely love it. And we had one guy, if you asked him about it, he starts crying because he

just like, we changed his life. Right. And you get people like that. And it's utterly, it's such an honor to have people like that in the company, but then you get other people, they hate this job. Like they hate any other nine to five job. So we've that spectrum. So I know I've got work to do, right. I've got to figure this out. But in the interview process, to me, like any good relationship, number one criteria is selection, right? I got with my wife, the most important decision I ever made was just that it was her, right? So she has a certain mindset. She has a growth mindset. She's really interested in learning and growing. She's just inquisitive. So it's just a wonderful relationship. The same goes just a wonderful relationship. The same goes for a job, right?

So out there, for anybody listening to this podcast, I'm going to make you a promise. I'm going to talk nice and soft into my microphone for a second. Right now, I promise you there is a job that you would love so much that you'll be as excited on a Monday morning as most people are on a Friday night. Right. Now, I don't think most people believe that, but that is absolutely true. And just psychological pressures. When somebody walks in, they want to win the job. They don't even care what the job is.

They may not even know. Like, they may have sent out so many resumes and they're going on so many interviews that they're like, wait, which one am I at again right now? Like, I know that's happened. So here this person is trying to win a job they're not trying to find that thing that's going to lead them to fulfillment and the irony is if you ask somebody what do you want from your life not your job your life they will invariably tell you one thing I want to be happy. Okay, awesome, awesome. What makes you happy? And then they stammer and stutter.

Or they default to my family makes me happy. And then my answer is, okay, cool. You want to be happy. Your family makes you happy. Spending quality time, vacations, all that. I can't help you with that. And if I do my job, I'm going to take you in the exact opposite direction. So if you don't have something else that you want from your life, right, then how are you ever going to find a place that's going to take you there?

So like if you were to ask me, what do you want from your life, not your job, from your life, I'm going to say I want to significantly impact as many people as I can to live a better and more fulfilled life. Okay, rad. Well, now look at the company that I've built. What's it designed to do? It's designed to help people body and mind live a better life. So at Nutrition, Quest Nutrition, we focus on the body with all the different food products that we make. I mean, we're even getting into cancer research and all this stuff's incredible. If we have time, we should talk about that. And then

Inside Quest focuses on the mindset that allowed us to build this company, which is why it's called Inside Quest. We wanted to share that mindset that allowed us to do in a declining industry what nobody had been able to do before us. And it was simply that we had a totally different mindset. We had the growth mindset. So it was like we came into any situation and instead of hitting a roadblock and stopping. We just thought, OK, we have to get a little bit smarter, a little bit wiser to figure this out and then move forward. Your overall goal is to end metabolic disease globally. And I speak to a lot of people. I get tons of emails from people that reach out and say, Hey, listen, I'm 22 years old.

I'm 23 years old. I'm graduating college. I don't know what I'm passionate about. I don't know what I want to do with the rest of my life. And I don't know where I should go. And for you, it was 34, 35 years old before you really found out this is what I was put on this planet to do. Um, what, let me ask you two questions. Number one, what advice would you give someone

to find that passion? Number two, what gave you the, in lack of better terms, audacity to go, you know what, I'm going to tackle this with me and my two friends. And that's cause that's a huge metabolic disease is a huge thing to tackle. So what gave you the, you know what, I'm going to go ahead and screw it. I'm going to do everything that I possibly can to try to end this disease. Well, to answer the first question, my advice is very, very clear. And I hope everybody listening takes this advice because that is the question I get asked more than any other question. And so for a long time, I did not have a good answer.

My answer used to be something like, oh, wow, gosh, that sucks, because I've always been passionate, right? So that is not something that I struggled with. And then I read an amazing book called So Good They Can't Ignore You. And I believe the author's name is Cal Newport. It's definitely Cal. I'm almost certain it's Newport. I think you're right.

Okay. And that book really gave me the insight into the fact that people, you know, a passion isn't handed down like a bolt of lightning. Passion is something where you take intersecting areas of interest, you pursue them, and in the gaining of mastery in that area that you find interesting, it can turn into a passion. Right. So but it was that notion of in the gaining of mastery. Yeah. You find yourself getting on fire. Right.

Because we and I think that mastery is one of the most fundamental building blocks of human happiness. Framework happy. Because progression is so critical. And Tony Robbins talks a lot about that I think it's totally on the money with that progression is the most fundamental building block to human happiness so if that's true then it makes sense that that as you start to feel that progression you're like whoa like I'm actually getting good at this I can put unique ideas together I can

execute on them like there's just a real mind-body connection going on that at that point it really does develop into something special, which is why I think people end up super passionate about something really weird like animal husbandry or whatever. From being a music producer to running a farm. It's just these wildly diverse things, but you get people who truly, man, they ate to do it. But they didn't necessarily start there. It developed with mastery. Man, that's so interesting because I I've never thought about it that way. And Tony Robbins says the exact same thing is a human is happy when they're progressing,

like you said. And for me, it's never been it's it's almost that I have too many passions. And I am like 100% of what I live my life by is like 10,000 hours. Is it the mastery of something? All of me has too many books on 10,000 hours. I mean, I have 10,000 hours on my wrist, so I don't forget. So there's, there's so many things, but I've never thought for someone who's not passionate to go into something and then just try to put their time and their effort and everything that they can into it. And through that mastery, actually start to fall in love with it.

Which makes sense because there are a lot of weird things where I'm like, how the hell did this person put so much time into something this weird? But they're absolutely a master at that thing. Yeah, and I think that people have to try a lot of things and encounter a lot of ideas, which can be in some ways largely done through reading. But encounter that thing that, hey, that sounds interesting. Don't wait for something that's like, oh, that sounds like what I could give the rest of my life to. It just doesn't start like that. At least for me, like on my first date, I wasn't like, oh, I'm going to marry this woman. I was actually thinking she's legally obligated to leave the country, which was fantastic at the time. So because when I met my wife, she's British. She to leave the country, which was fantastic at the time.

So because my when I met my wife, she's British. She was here just like on a temporary visa. So I thought, wow, this is great. It's like a legally mandated summer fling. So but over time, like spending time with her and the relationship begins to build and that connection becomes real. And then all of a sudden you're like, whoa, like I'm, I've now been totally drawn into this world. But if I had put the pressure meeting her that like, either she can be the one or I'm not interested, you're just never going to find out. You're never going to give it time to develop. And I think people are also afraid to change direction. Try something. If you don't like it, try something else. And when something catches your interest, get good at it and see what happens. That's a, that's amazing perspective because I never thought of it in that sense. With regards to that, you said something a little while ago about eight and a half years

you spent before you went out. I think your exact words were you sold eight and a half years cheaply, I think is the way that you phrased it. I feel like most of the people that reach out to me and most people that listen to this podcast most of the time are employees or they're leaving or trying to leave. So what advice do you give somebody that is, they're in a corporate job, they hate it, but they feel something inside of them that says there is something more for me. I just don't know how to leave when I'm so comfortable and I'm able to pay the bills. How do I go after this one thing when I don't know if I can pay the bills if I go after it? Can I make your listeners hate me a little bit? I would love it. Let's get vulnerable. I'm pulling you closer here. Here's the truth. Those are all excuses. So we just filmed an

episode of Inside Quest with a guy named Blake Leeper. He's a double at birth amputee. So he was born with, um, deformed below the knee legs. So they amputated them. And what of all the people on the face of the planet who have an excuse not to run, it would be Blake Leeper, right? Like you don't have legs. I think anyone takes that excuse and goes, yeah. Okay. But not only did he not accept that excuse in himself, he has set his sights on becoming the fastest man alive with no qualifications. Not the fastest Paralympian. Not the fastest man on running blades. The fastest man alive.

That's it. And this kid trains and trains. He's training for the 2016 Olympics. We're able-bodied Olympics right now. So that to me, like that kid is so inspiring. And when you look at somebody like that, they don't make excuses like, look, I get it, man. Here. This is the most insidious thing about excuses. They're valid. Right. Like think about that for a second. The worst part about an excuse is how real and valid it really is. Blake really has a reason to say I can't be the fastest man alive, right? It is making money because there is no reason to bet the farm. I've never done that. I don't think there's any reason to do that. But it's going to force you to not make excuses because you're

going to have to grind after work. You're probably going to have to do with less sleep. You're going to have to grind before work. And if you're really smart at work, you make yourself a linchpin and you show everyone around you what it means to perform at the absolute highest level. Because if you go to your job and you underperform and you sandbag and all you're doing is thinking about your other company, like you're ingraining in your own mind what it means to work, right? Which is to not make the most of every second. There's so many learning opportunities at your job. Take it, test it, try something, push the envelope, try to be great. Like see what does it take to be great here? And

then how do I apply these lessons to this thing that I am going to build? No excuses. I'm going to make it happen and then go grind. We had, when we launched quest, we still had the technology company. So we ran the technology company by day and then we made protein bars at night. So we were making protein bars by hand with rolling pins until like 1130 midnight. There was like six, depending on the night, six, like nine of us. And we just did it. And the funny thing is with some of the most fun we've ever had, it was a great time. I spent many a time, 2 a.m. on a Friday, 2 a.m. on a Saturday, just banging it out, which is why don't do it for money.

Do it because when I was there on the line, like trying to crush it, I wasn't thinking about the money. I was thinking about, I know who I'm trying to help, right? It's very real in my mind. I know what my mission is. I'm here to end metabolic disease. So it's very easy to fight in those moments when all it is, is a couple of shekels. Suddenly you're like, God, do I want the money more than I want to be chilling right now? Like, maybe not. Wow. No, that's great. And it's kind of like, I can't, so I must, is what it seems like that guy lives by. And the thing about it, and you said something that was really good, and I try to live my life by the way you do one thing

is the way you do everything. So what you said, if we go back to it, is you can't check out at your current job and expect to kick ass at your next job because you're slowly going to create the habits at your current job that's going to make you suck at the company that you might open in the future. Your company might be failing because you're coming up a little bit short in your normal job, which is allowing you to come up a little bit short in your actual company that you own as well, which is a key thing that I don't think people think about. 100%. And look, it's not honorable, right? It's not honorable.

But if you – like I tell my employees, don't ever hide from me that you're trying to build another company because I might be able to help you. I'm not afraid of that. I'm an entrepreneur. I know what it means to want to control your own destiny. I totally get it. Some people want to come in. They want to punch a clock, 9 to 5. They want safety, security.

Cool. I'm in for that. I can provide that. It's easy. Other people, they're entrepreneurs. They're hustlers. They want to come in. They want to learn everything they can, either just about business in general or maybe even about this kind of business so that they can go off and do it.

I don't have a beef with that. I think that's beautiful. How could I hate on that in somebody else when that's all I wanted for myself? Right. So cool. No problem. And if you come in and you kill it, right. I always tell people your job here is just your tuition. What you get is all the other access opportunities, all of that learning from all the amazing people that are in this company. And if you're being honorable and trying to be an awesome team member, people are going to want to give to you. And we just literally, like a week ago, we had a guy leave. One of the most amazing employees we've

ever had. This kid is amazing. And he wanted to start his own company. I knew he wanted to start his own company. Everybody talked about it openly. He's going to start his own company. I knew he wanted to start his own company. Everybody talked about it openly. He's going to start his own company. And then when he did, we had this big celebration when he left and, uh, got to give that, like that speech that you always want to give for those people that you love. And I really got to say like who I think this guy is and what he's done and how I hope it inspires all of you guys. And this is someone who's leaving, but he was so good and he was so honorable and he was so loyal and he just did everything with grace. It's amazing. That's incredible because I spoke with my best friend earlier today, another Cutco person.

And he's like, I can't believe that you're interviewing him. If I can ask one question, you literally just answered the question too. He said, I love how he tries to get everyone to grow. He tries to get them out of the matrix. But what does he say when he has someone that he absolutely loves and wants to keep this person around, but they're going to go off and do something else? Like, what does he do in that situation? I guess you answered it. You throw him a freaking party and you're like, hey, this guy succeeded in leaving the matrix. So you're just okay with, hey, I love you and I love you so much. I want you to leave and do your own thing. Is that that kind of where it sits with you?

Yeah. And the cool thing is I actually had the opportunity. So he took me out to dinner and we had a very, very close relationship. He was it is such a cool story. I'll tell a very small piece of it. Um, he grew up hard in Compton. His sister was shot in the heart with an AK 47 when he was 14 years old. He watched her die. Just really, really rough upbringing. Um, and he's basically said, I had never thought about my future until quest. You guys have given me hope and I've never had hope before. And that was one of those things where I was like, Whoa, like you realize how deeply a relationship can impact somebody. So anyway, he and I became very, very close. And he grew and developed and gained skills that made him very marketable. And so as it all culminates, he says, I want to take you out to dinner. It takes me out to dinner.

And it was like a kid asking the father for the daughter's hand in marriage. And he said, look, I've, I've got this opportunity to start a company. Um, but I'm torn. I don't want to leave my family here at quest. Uh, what do you think I should do? And at that moment I can either make him an employee for life and I give him a speech about what it means to be connected to family and the importance of that. And we've got to stick together if we're going to do all this. Don't go like you'd be betraying these people. Right. And he would have stayed. Yeah. But the speech instead was, this is amazing. I know you're terrified right now. Do not be scared. Go and do this. This is going to be one of the most amazing opportunities of your life. And then when I was giving the

speech, I said, look, this kid is about to leave and he's going to fail. And he shouldn't be tense about that because he's the kind of person that will grow. He will learn. He will take that failure. He will turn it into a weapon. He will build something new. He is the one he's going to go succeed. A hundred percent. I have no doubt. And the reason it was important for me to give him the permission to fail on the first one was don't be tense. Don't worry. Like, first of all, you could always come back to class if you're really in a panic. Second, like, that's how you get good, right? You're going to fall down. You're going to eat it. And fear was like his big thing. Fear of losing the family, fear of failing at the job. It's like, yeah, you're going to fail. So what?

Doesn't matter. Like, go out there, learn this lesson. And just ended up being this really cool thing internally for everybody. It's amazing. The last thing I want to go over is I feel like I love, especially even more after reading Brene Brown's book, Daring Greatly, I love vulnerability. And the one thing that I hear from people is that I'm extremely vulnerable. I talk about how my father was an alcoholic and passed away when I was 15. And I tell people all of the shit because I think that everyone goes through

their own type of shit. But it seems like you've cultivated a place where people can be very vulnerable in the workplace, which seems completely backwards. Because usually it's you walk in, you hide up all your tattoos, you have to act a certain way. Was that by design? Or is it just they saw you guys that way?

How did you actually make an office from what I've heard? Seems like people are very vulnerable and very open with each other with everything. Yeah, so it is by design. Hundred percent. I've also read Brene Brown's book. And so I'm supporting that is. But to be actually vulnerable right now, I will say it's something that's hard, right? So it's hard to create that environment. I don't think we do it perfectly.

I think we've got a lot of lessons still to learn about making people feel safe, making them feel appreciated, balancing growing the company as fast as we're growing and yet always keeping in mind people's feelings and that in any relationship both people have to be of equal value so not treating people like they're replaceable cogs like really expressing the value that they bring to the organization like that it's hard it's hard to do i don't think i get it right all the time i think there's a lot of lessons still to be learned. But yes, it's something that we actively talk about. It's actually a part of our corporate culture training. So all of this stuff is things that we try not to take for granted. We know it doesn't happen automatically.

We know we have to really encourage this stuff. And one of the ways that I encourage people to be vulnerable is I let them see how I handle mistakes, how I handle criticism, that I don't shy away from it. I don't lash out. I invite people to tell me how I feel. And my dance is getting that feedback, right? Because a lot of times people still see me as like the boss and, oh, God, like you can't say it to him. And as soon as they feel like they can't say it to me, then who else can't they say it to? Right. So then you get that, that real hierarchy. So just trying to, to navigate all that and, and really make sure people

can go all in. I love it. I feel like I could probably talk for hours with you, but I know we have a time you're a busy guy. So, uh, let me ask you this. How can people get ahold of you? Um, and you know, what the the best way to do so and start watching inside quests as well yeah so i'm i'm pretty active on social on twitter on instagram i'm at tom bill you my name is spelled uh t-o-m as one would expect my last name is b as in bravo i lU. But yeah, hit me up. And our YouTube comments are really active. I comment there a lot.

So I try to engage with the fans as much as humanly possible. I don't take them for granted. I'm working my ass off to try to give them actual valuable content. So yeah, dive into the whole Inside Quest experience. It's a podcast on iTunes, and it's also on YouTube. Great. I appreciate your time so much. I really enjoyed this conversation, and I hope that you have a great day as well. Thanks, man. You too. Keep killing it. You're doing amazing stuff.

It was an honor to be here. Thank you.