The Mindset Mentor - Jay Shetty - How to Think Like a Monk

Episode Date: September 9, 2020

Jay Shetty has over 37 million followers online, 7 billion video views and was a monk for 3 years in India. In his new book, Think Like a Monk, he teaches you how to train your mind for peace and purpose. I have known Jay for 3 years now and he is one of the most incredible people I know. If you're looking for more peace and happiness in your life, this episode is for you!To join my motivational text group text me now at +𝟏-𝟓𝟏𝟐-𝟓𝟖𝟎-𝟗𝟑𝟎𝟓 Want to learn more about Mindset Mentor+? For nearly nine years, the Mindset Mentor Podcast has guided you through life's ups and downs. Now, you can dive even deeper with Mindset Mentor Plus. Turn every podcast lesson into real-world results with detailed worksheets, journaling prompts, and a supportive community of like-minded people. Enjoy monthly live Q&A sessions with me, and all this for less than a dollar a day. If you’re committed to real, lasting change, this is for you.Join here 👉 www.mindsetmentor.com My first book that I’ve ever written is now available. It’s called LEVEL UP and It’s a step-by-step guide to go from where you are now, to where you want to be as fast as possible.📚If you want to order yours today, you can just head over to robdial.com/bookHere are some useful links for you… If you want access to a multitude of life advice, self development tips, and exclusive content daily that will help you improve your life, then you can follow me around the web at these links here:Instagram TikTokFacebookYoutube

Welcome to today's episode of the Mindset Mentor Podcast. I am your host, Rob Dylann. If you have not yet done so, hit that subscribe button so that you never miss another podcast episode. Today is an interview with my good friend Jay Shetty, whose new book is out now called Think Like a Monk. And he was a monk for over three years in India. He has an incredible story. And today we're going to dive into questions that he says he's never been asked before. And if you want to go out and buy his book, I definitely highly recommend it. Go to Amazon, go to Barnes and Noble, go to any place that you need to buy it and look it up. It's called Think Like a Monk. And let's dive into today's

episode. Welcome everybody to the Mindset Mentor podcast. I'm excited to have my good friend Jay Shetty here with us. If you don't know, if you're one of the four or five people left on the planet that don't know who Jay is, Jay is a ex-monk who has over 37 million followers across all his social media platforms with 7.5 billion views of his videos and over 400 videos produced, which are all great accolades. But I think the biggest one for Jay is that he's also one of the nicest, kindest humans I've ever met. When you're in the personal development space, you meet a lot of people who are great on camera, but then you meet them and they're not necessarily the same person. I would say that Jay is even more of the person that he is on camera. And the only, I always say that there's, there's, there's a few people I've

met that are nicer than Jay. And one of them happens to be his wife. So she's, she's awesome as well. And she's also puts out some incredible videos on, on social media as well. And, and Jay, man, it's great to have you. It's great to talk about this new book and to dive in. And she's also puts out some incredible videos on social media as well. And Jay, man, it's great to have you. It's great to talk about this new book and to dive in. And I'm excited that you're here, man. Rob, that is by far the sweetest introduction I've ever had. And you're about to see a teardrop in my eye, honestly. Should I just keep going? Just try to get one out? No, man, that's so kind of you. Honestly, like I'm humbled just hearing it from you. out? No, man, that's so kind of you. Honestly, like I'm, I'm, I'm humbled just hearing it from you and, and the feeling's very mutual. You know, we connected the first time we met, we were both very early in both of our journeys. And I think that it's been fun to watch your journey and what

you grow and maintain our relationship throughout. And as I was saying to you just before the few times that we have spent together, they've been so deep and open and authentic. And I just want to say thank you, man. And again, just to remind everyone, that literally is the story of my life. People meet me and they think, oh, this guy's all right. I like him.

And then they meet my wife and then no one knows who I am anymore. So that is, I experience that regularly. Yeah, it's awesome. It's good. And that's the crazy thing. I was thinking about that today as well. We've only probably met in person three or four times, whatever it was.

There was the very first time we ever met. I came up to New York and I was on my way to literally leave for three months. And our mutual friend was like, hey, you need me up with Jay. And you had like 250,000 followers at the time. I had like 50,000 followers. And then we went to Starbucks. We went upstairs to your rooftop area. Then we spoke for like three hours. I was like, man, this could have been an incredible podcast episode. And then the, uh, we left, we came back, we, we met up with you again

in New York. And every time it's been like two, three hour conversations, um, every time that we talk. And, uh, it's crazy. Cause we've only met up in person just a few times, but every time it's like, it's good. It's good to catch up. It's good to go deep and have people that you can have those real, legitimate conversations with, you know? Yeah, we've also, you know, one thing I respect about you, Rob, and I love this about friendships, that I feel like when you build a real deep bond with someone,

and we keep in touch regularly. We text a lot. Yeah, we text a lot on WhatsApp and whatever. But you kind of get into a space where you realize that you created a powerful relationship where you don't need to talk every week to remain connected and feel like, you know, someone, and I really value those relationships in my life because I feel as life goes on, we all get more busy or we have so much going on and there's multiple things moving for everyone. And I really look to friends who are happy to have flexible, adaptable, evolving relationships where you still feel connected, but you allow the relationship to grow. So I really value you for

being one of those people. Yeah. Yeah. And it's also good because, you know, it's funny because most of our text messages usually start where I come up across something like the Bhagavad Gita and I'm like, I don't understand this. Can you help me? Like, I'm like, can you help me with the spiritual stuff? And I'm like, Hey, you know, I'm watching Radhanath Swami talk about something like, does he ever do events over in India? Can we go to India? Oh yeah. I remember that. I mean, that is definitely something we're going to have to do. Yeah. Once this COVID thing goes by, but, um, let's do this, man. Let's dive into, let's dive into you. Uh, we've been talking about this for three years

getting you on the podcast. So before we dive into the book and everything, let's talk about you and how you got here, your journey from when you were younger because you had a little bit crazier. I guess it wasn't a crazier childhood, but you happened to be a little bit crazier at some points in the childhood, which is good. And then you had a big turning point in your life. And I want to talk about that. And you had another big turning point after you became a monk where you decided to do what you're doing now. So take us through that journey real quick, if you would. of 14, I was super obedient, a good son, worked really hard at school. And I'd say that I stuck with those ethics and values that my parents gave me. I always wanted to be kind. I always wanted to be a good person to people. I never wanted to hurt anyone. But I think everyone goes through this 14 year old to kind of like late teens period of just looking for a thrill in life.

And that kind of takes you on different adventures, different bad habits sometimes, sometimes the wrong circles. And I went on all of those because I knew that I was looking for a thrill. And it's interesting because I really believe now that I was looking for meaning and purpose, but I didn't know those words when I was 14, 15, 16 years old. And so the word I knew was like, I want to thrill. I want to live on the edge. I want that feeling of just testing the boundaries and the limits. And so I got involved in things that I wouldn't want my kids to get involved. And my parents were worried about me. But when I was 18, I had this truly, truly life-changing moment. And I really believe that we all get opportunities where people walk into

our life or people walk out of our life, which can change our trajectory forever. And it can be either or. And for me, it was someone walking into my life. And the person that walked into my life was one of the most unexpected people ever because it happened to be a monk from India. And I was fascinated when I was 18 years old to hear from people who went from nothing to something, people who'd really changed their life and gone from rags to riches and transformed their situation. And so I used to go and hear celebrities, CEOs, entrepreneurs speak. And I was invited to hear a monk speak. And I thought, well, what am I going to learn from a monk? And I had this massive limiting belief of just, what do you learn from someone who has

nothing? What's he going to teach me, right? And so I had that kind of ego and I told my friends that I'll only go to this event if we go to a bar afterwards. That's literally the state of my consciousness. Just to make it really clear about how unenlightened I am in my life and how much these memories really act as humility anchors in my life because I remember what I used to feel like at that time.

Anyway, I go to this event expecting nothing and I walk out feeling like I've gained everything because this monk is speaking about service, about compassion, about how the greatest gift you can give someone is to use your skills in their service. And I'm thinking like, what? Like all of us in this audience are chasing money, status, a comfy job, a nice house, a beautiful partner. Like that's what we're looking for. This guy's telling me that all of that is not the answer. And so I realize now when I look back that the reason why that moment changed my life is I think that

when I was 18, I'd met people who were happy. Sorry, I take that back. I mean the opposite. I don't think I'd ever met anyone who was truly happy. I'd met people who were rich. I'd met people who were beautiful. I'd met people who were attractive. I'd met people who were beautiful. I'd met people who were attractive. I'd met people who were powerful. I'd met people who were intellectual, but I don't think I'd ever met anyone who was truly happy. And I felt that from him. So that was such a huge moment for me. And like I said, whether it's someone walking into your life or walking someone out of your life, those can be huge transitionary moments. For sure. And so, so then you, when you saw him, then you had this like back and forth of hanging out with monks, still being, you know, kind of the same that you were hanging out with monks, still being the same. And then you made this big

life decision of, I'm going to go become a monk, which means basically even away our possessions, moving to India and becoming a monk. So what was the reason why you decided to go and become a monk? And, uh, and I guess through those three or four years that you were there, what was the reason why you decided to go and become a monk? And I guess through those three or four years that you were there, what was it that you actually learned through it? Yeah, I think one of my biggest reasons, Rob, was I really believed that I didn't want these amazing learnings and teachings that I was coming across about ego and humility and compassion. I didn't want them to just be concepts that I heard about and talked about. I wanted to be things that I could really live. And I realized that I couldn't live

them unless I was in a place where I could purify myself. And what I mean by purifying is cleansing and healing. These wonderful qualities exist within each of us, me and you and everyone in the world, but we're all covered over with so much dust that you can't see it. So that was one reason. The second reason was I thought, what an amazing life to live of service. What if all of my life could be dedicated to helping people? I was given a lot of gifts growing up. I was born in a safe and healthy family. We weren't well off, but we were safe and healthy. How could I truly use that to help others? And then the third reason I'd say was, I really felt that the wisdom that I learned being a monk, I wanted to study it more and I wanted to share it more. So it was like this

human experiment of really wanting to be immersed and thinking of how to be of service to people. So those were probably my top three reasons of why I wanted to be a monk. And it was an easy decision because I spent all of my summer vacations and Christmas holidays from 18 to 22. Half of them, I'd spend them working in a corporate company in London. And the other half, I'd spend them trying to spend time learning from the monks,

what you mentioned. And so I was literally going from bars, steakhouses, and suits to sleeping on the floor, wearing robes and having cold showers. Every holiday I had, like kind of like my first split test or AB test. And I realized very clearly that the latter was more meaningful to me. Yeah. So, you know, you were, I remember for the first time we talked, you said that was your life. Like that was going to be forever. And eventually I think if I remember correctly, your, your guru pulled you off to the side and he was like, Hey Jay, like, I feel like there's something else you're supposed to be doing in this world. Maybe you have a bigger purpose and

you need to go share this with people. And I remember you saying it was, it was like going through a divorce. Like it was like someone that you love breaking up with you. And so with him saying that, with him going through that, so you're, go from uprooting yourself to becoming a monk. Now you're a monk, you've completely uprooted yourself, you've got nothing, and now you've got to go back to the real world. So what was that whole process like?

And then how did you come about, you know what, I'm going to start making videos online and start putting it out there? It's literally one of the toughest moments of my life. It's not the toughest. I think I've had tougher afterwards. It was one of the toughest moments of my life because when you go off to become a monk, you literally give up all social respect, influence, status, and recognition. That's literally what you're doing is completely saying, becoming a monk is like the greatest rebellion because you're basically saying that the world that we're creating and chasing is not the answer. And so I'm going to go off and do something

totally extreme. And so people in my life, like my, my parents have always been supportive, but my extended family was like, you're never going to get a job again. People were like, well, if you ever come back, you're never going to have any money. People are going to be so much ahead of you when you come back. So it was almost like I'd heard all of that when I left and I thought, see you later. I'm going to do this for the rest of my life. And then all of a sudden, three years after you're humbled because you're like, oh, they were right. So in my head, I'm worried about coming back to that reality. And I have this conversation. And one thing about thinking like a monk is that if you do it, if you practice it, you will get such a deep sense of self-awareness

that you can often come to the realization that you're not a monk. And that really was the realization that I came to was that really my path and purpose in life was to not be a monk. And that's the hardest thing in the world. It's like the realization of, I don't think I'm meant to be in this career. I don't think I'm meant to be potentially with this person. I don't think I'm meant to be a monk. And that's the hardest excavation. But it's also the goal of thinking like a monk is to be closest to your truest self. And so I came to that conclusion. My teacher also said to me that they felt it was time for me to go on. And, and by the way, at that time, I had no idea what that even meant, because all it meant to me was moving back in with my parents, age 25, going on 26,

with $25,000 worth of debt. And all my friends now had settled into comfy jobs, were in relationships, were living their life, right? I'd missed out on three years, nearly four of normality. So normality. So I moved back in my parents, I'm back in London and I traveled across London and Europe as a monk too. So I'd visited back before and I get into a situation where I start realizing that for the first month, I literally just let go of all my good habits. The first thing I did was- The first month from three years. After three years, the first month was my weakest month of practice. I got back. The first thing I

did was go and buy like Cadbury's chocolate or something because I didn't eat chocolate for three years. And I love chocolate. You know've, I think we sat outside one, one time we hung out with, with our partners. We hung out a, a by Chloe. Yeah. Yeah. The sweets version. And we just got a bunch of chocolate. We were eating it.

Yeah. Yeah. So I eat chocolate now. I'm plant-based, but I eat chocolate, plant-based chocolate. And so I was, so I did that. I started listening to Drake again. Drake had like, Drake had just become famous just before I became a monk. Like so I did that. I started listening to Drake again, because Drake had like, Drake had just become famous just before I became a monk, like best I ever had. So you had three years to catch up of Drake music.

Three years of Drake to catch up on. And Drake makes a lot of music. Yeah. I got back into watching football, soccer, because I've always been a huge football fan. And so for the first month, I woke up late, ate junk food, uh, watched TV. I think I caught up on all 13 seasons or whatever it was of how i met your mother oh my gosh uh you know i just i just let go because i was so to some degree the closest i've ever felt to depression where i just didn't know what i was doing with my life and i didn't know who to talk to because i didn't know who to trust or who really had my best

interest who really understood me because i mean how many people understand what it means like to want to dream, to be a monk, to fail at it and then to come back. So I got into a place and I'm giving you a lot of detail because I feel like it's, you know, it fills a lot of the gaps that people may, people may not know. And I want to share with you openly because you're my friend. So I was in that situation. And about a month after I realized that if wisdom was true, if I practiced it, it should help me live in this world. And that everything that I'd learned for the past three years were like going to school. And this was the beginning of the exam. And if I changed my perspective that instead of saying I. Right. And if I've changed my perspective that instead of saying I failed,

I actually realized I have completed school. And then now that I've graduated, I now have to put everything I've learned into practice. If I view it in that way, then actually this could be a lot of fun and that I could actually lose some of the stress and pressure of like, oh my God, I need a job and I need money.

I need to figure this out. So I reframed my perspective. And there's that beautiful teaching from Wayne Dyer, where he says, when we change the way we look at things, the things we look at change. And that was kind of like that moment where that piece of wisdom like really stuck. And so what I did is every day I got ready and I would go to my local library. I'd go to different libraries every week. I would read the Bhagavad Gita and other Vedic texts. And then on the other side, I would read self-development business strategy and personal development books, because I had grown up in a family where my dad had Deepak Chopra and Tony Robbins lying around all the time. So I'd always been aware of that, that world. And so I started doing that. And then

I started applying for jobs because I needed to pay the bills and I couldn't live in my parents loft forever. So I started applying to all these jobs and I got rejected by 40 companies that I think would have given me a job. And they rejected me before interview. And the crazy thing is that, you know, I'm a first class honors degree student. I've been a straight A student my whole life. And all of a sudden, I'm getting rejected. This is new for me. And I'm sitting there going, gosh, this is not going well. Like, where am I going to go from here?

And so anyway, I keep applying. And finally, I get a job at a company called Accenture, which I'm really grateful for, gave me a break. And then I spend around two years at that company doing digital strategies, social media innovation, learning, building my innovation, learning, building my confidence up again, just trying to focus in the world. And one of the best things that happened is I got allowed to teach meditation and mindfulness across Accenture and across the

corporate world because that was becoming such an interesting need at that time. So I was almost living my passion in a corporate company. And so two years in, I was like, this is too meaningful that I'm going to let it end here. And I need to figure this out. And I started to see the rise of social media and I realized it was powerful in sharing a message, but I had a real big limiting belief that I didn't have the skills to do it. And so I was trying to apply to media companies to get a job, to be a video journalist or a vlogger inside a company, because I was like, oh, that's the only way to get into the industry. And so I was rejected by 10 media companies before interview, because they said, you don't have a media background or comms background or

any of that stuff. Then I applied to, I actually networked and chased down three executives in London, media execs. And one of them, I chased him while he was riding his bike around London. One of them, I networked at an event. One of them, I found out that my family friend was friends with him, my wife's family friends. So then he connected us on a phone call. And all three of them said to me, they said, you're too old to be in media. You are more stable at where you are now. Why are you even bothering? And then you don't have any backgrounds in media. You have no communications background. You're not a presenter. So what do you even have? And, you know, at that time it was so discouraging because I was like,

well, this is just not happening. And so finally I ended up at an ethnic minority TV training day run by the BBC in London at a place called Pinewood studios. And I'm at the studios and they're running an ethnic minority TV training day, which means there's six people in a room and everyone's brown and black. And so I walk into this room and I'm like, Oh, you're brown. And so we'd get this TV training day. They're training us to be presenters because I went there to see if I even have the skills or if I could network or whatever. So anyway, they end the day and they're like, Jay, you've got some skills. Like you're, you're effective on camera and you can communicate.

But they were like, there's no jobs in media. And I was like, well, what you told six brown and black people to come here. So you could tell us there's no job in media. Like, that's great. And they were like, you should start a YouTube channel. And I was just like, start a YouTube channel. And they were like, no, you should start a YouTube channel. I was just like, you realize that only works for Justin Bieber. Literally, that was like, I was like, you realize there is no chance that's going to work for someone like me.

And they were like, no, that's what you need to do. I was like, okay. So then that was a moment in my life where there's a beautiful statement by Edison where he said that when you feel you've exhausted all options, remember this, you haven't. And that was that moment where I realized that my whole life, I believed that

I was checking off every option, trying to do every door. And I realized that until you've done everything, you can't say that this isn't for you. So that's when I started a YouTube channel, 3rd Jan 2016. My first video got 5,000 views in 24 hours, which I was very proud about. That's awesome. And that's where it all started. That's where it all kicked off. It's crazy. One thing that you said that I see a lot of people really kind of do is you were kind

of like dipping your toes in before you actually like really dove into it where you're like, maybe I'll go apply at this company that does video stuff instead of actually doing my own video stuff. And I remember I was over when I was in Bali one time, I had a friend introduced me. He, we were in Bali. We were just hanging out and he had one of his friends come and I started talking to him and I was like, what do you do? He's like, Oh, I'm a music producer. I was like, Oh, that's pretty cool. And we started chatting about music. Cause I'm a musician as well. I've been a musician

since, you know, it's been almost 20 years now I've been a musician. So we're talking about it. And it's my friend comes up, that's the mutual friend. And he goes, Hey man, don't, uh, don't let him mess around on you. He's actually a big deal. I was like, Oh really? So then we started talking about it. And you know, like if you look at my now he's got hundreds of millions of plays that are on Spotify and stuff. So we started talking about it and I was like, so what's the journey been like for you? And what wasn't, he goes, he goes, well, man, I was a music producer for other people for the longest time. And I was producing their stuff and producing their stuff. And then one day I just woke up and I was like, I'm not passionate about making other people's music. I need to be making

my own. And it was like this light bulb moment where I realized what I'm actually supposed to do is make my own music. And he saw a tiny bit of success, but then he started making his own music where he produced it. And then he started singing on it and then he exploded. And I feel like a lot of people do that where they kind of like dip their toes into their passion, but they don't fully jump in because they're afraid of something of rejection or succeeding, or maybe even being rejected the main thing they truly want to do in their life. And it scares the crap out of them, you know? And it sounds like that's kind of where you were. And then you went, all right, I'll start a YouTube channel. And you start a YouTube channel and it worked pretty well for you.

Yeah. And I think, you know, the truth for me was I just didn't know anyone who was even an entrepreneur personally. Everyone in my life had corporate steady jobs who were doing well for themselves, but I wasn't really around anyone who'd done something different in my space. So all my friends growing up either became lawyers or doctors or dentists or corporate accountants. And those are all beautiful careers, but that was what I saw. So I wasn't exposed to anyone who'd bucked the trend

or who'd broken the mold. I've never met anyone like that. And so for me, I didn't really believe that there was even a real career outside of those careers. And I literally got to a point where I'd settled that I was gonna work my full-time job and I was gonna make videos on the side. When I first started making content on YouTube, I believed I would do my day job to pay the bills. And every evening for five days a week, I would spend five hours a day editing to

make my five minute videos every single week, because I taught myself how to edit. I didn't have a clue. And I taught myself how to lay a sound and how to do color editing and how to get B-roll and stock footage and all this kind of stuff. And that's what I thought it was going to be like. But so for me, it's I really have a lot of compassion for anyone who feels stuck or doesn't believe they know their path because that is my story. My story isn't I had a vision board and I knew exactly what was going to happen and I had a plan. I had a vision board and I knew exactly what was going to happen. And I had a plan. My story is I had a real desire and intention to help people through what I believe are my talents, but I had no idea where I was going to do it. Yeah. And one of the things you said too, that kind of stuck out and you actually, it's funny because I used this quote yesterday and

then I opened up your book and it's the very first quote. And that you say in the, in the very beginning of a chapter one, which you were talking about people that, you know, we're saying, oh, you can't do this. You, you know, you, you, if you go become a monk, you'll never get a job. And you started taking other people's perceptions of what would be true and putting it on yourself. And I literally was at lunch yesterday with a friend and we were talking about perception. And like, she goes, you know, what blows my mind is that I realized that I've been living my entire life off of other people's perceptions of me. And then I realized that my perception of that, my perception of their perception might not even be real. And I was like, well, yeah, have you ever heard the quote?

I'm not who I think I am. I'm not who you think I am. I am who I think that you think that I am. And she's like, no, oh my God, that quote's crazy. And it really is true because all too often, instead of looking in and being like, well, what do I truly want to do? We look and we say, oh, well, my parents tell me I'm supposed to be doing this or, you know, I'm not that great in school, so I probably can't get a great job or I'm probably going to fail or something like that. And I know that I've heard you say this quote over and over and over again as well. And I'm curious with you, why do you feel like, you know, number one, it's one of your favorite quotes, but number two, it's literally at the very beginning of your book.

So it really shows how much you love it. What is the, what is the reason why you love that, that quote so much? And what does it mean to you? That, that quote is definitely probably my favorite quote of all time. It's, it's by Charles Cooley. And I believe he said it in the 1900s. And the reason why I start the book with it or why it has such a prominent place in my heart is because I believe that is

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show right now. And thinking like a monk means to go to the root of the issue. So the monkey mind, which we all experience, is jumping from thought to thought, branch to branch. You know, we've all imagined what a monkey looks like running around. And the monk mind goes, wait a minute, the answer isn't up there. The answer's in the root, right? The fruit doesn't grow because of the branch. It grows because of the root. The leaves don't grow because of the branch. They grow because of the root. And so if you understand the root of a tree, if you water the root of the tree, you get fruits and flowers and leaves. And so the root of all of our suffering, of all of our pain comes because we

live in a perception of a perception of ourselves. And like your friend rightly pointed out, as the quote does, is that what you think someone thinks of you might not even be true. And so we end up choosing careers. We end up choosing partners. We end up choosing our livelihoods. We end up choosing careers. We end up choosing partners. We end up choosing our livelihoods. We end up choosing what we do, our passions. We end up choosing everything based on what we think other people will think of us. If we think that our friends will think that if we become a doctor, that we're smart, then we'll become a doctor. If we think that our parents think that if we marry this person, then that will be the right decision, then we do that. There are so many pressures in society today. It's like, oh, if I don't have an Instagram profile, can I have a career? Can I be an entrepreneur? It's like, of course you can. You can be a really

successful entrepreneur. But again, the perception that if I don't have followers, will I be validated? Whatever it is that we have. And by the way, we recreate these no matter how successful we are, right? This is easy for the biggest star in Hollywood to do as much as it is for someone starting out. So the biggest star in Hollywood could be like, well, unless I win an Oscar, then no one will actually respect me as an actor, right? That could be their loop, whereas they could be the most successful actor of all time already. And so there's so many ways in which we let people's perception affect our choices. And when their perception changes our choices, you could spend a lot of time, which I give an example of method acting. You could spend a lot of time in your life method acting, trying to be

someone, trying to play a role that isn't you and actors who've tried to method act as we know examples like heath ledger who played the joker in batman obviously it's not directly correlated and there's many stories around that but definitely that created some challenge you have the story of daniel day lewis in gangs of new york and he says he literally nearly went mad playing the butcher in the movie because of the role he had to take on. Jared Leto was sending his colleagues from, his co-stars from Suicide Squad, dead rats in the mail to get into the mindset of the Joker. Now we may not do something that extreme, but sometimes we start living a role,

someone else's role so perfectly that we forget who we are. And I think we all get to that place in life where we go, I don't know who I am anymore. Like, I don't think this is what I want. And so you can start pursuing the wrong thing when you live on other people's perception. Yeah. And one of the things that I always talk about with method acting, when I was reading through this and I saw that, I never heard of it with Daniel Day-Lewis, but what I always tell people with method acting that goes back to the same thing is, have you ever seen the movie,

what is it called? Jim and Andy with Jim Carrey? I haven't, I need to see that. Oh my God, okay. All right, so let me explain this to you because you can see how method acting can make somebody crazy in the movie. So he did a movie, Andy Kaufman,

or he did a movie as Andy Kaufman, or he did a movie as Andy Kaufman, a guy who passed away, I think in the seventies or early eighties. And he became a method act for Jim Carrey did to the point where, and then, so Jim and Andy is literally behind the scenes video of him being this guy. But part of the problem with, with Andy Kaufman is Andy Kaufman also played characters. So Jim Carrey's playing Andy Kaufman, who's playing Tony Clifton. So he's literally deep into it and he never broke character. So he was so much like Andy Kaufman that Andy Kaufman's family came

and did like mini therapy sessions with Jim Carrey as Andy Kaufman. So not only is he like playing this guy and then still playing him with the cameras off, he's also being him and his family, right? And so he's like deep into it, right? And this is pretty much the start of Jim Carrey's whole like shift to being real spiritual.

Have you seen this turn that he's taken? Yes, yeah. And so what happened was the whole thing ended three or four months in of being this guy. And he said, when it all ended, I didn't even remember who Jim Carrey was. And he was like, what do I love to do? Like, do I cuss? Do I not cuss? What do I believe in? What are my convictions?

And he's like, if, if my, my characters that I'm playing are so thin, that means the character that I'm playing as Jim Carrey is so thin as well. And then he really had to do this soul searching of like, who am I truly? Which kind of goes back to what you're saying of, he was finally able to kind of, you said, whenever you became a monk, you had to get rid of everything and purify yourself. It was kind of this purification for him of like, who am I? I don't know who I am. Cause he completely got rid of his person that he thought that he was. And it's incredible to kind of see somebody go through the whole psyche of like losing themselves into something and then trying to figure out who they are again. And it makes you realize like, you know, the Alan Watts quote that says, you're under no obligation to be who you were five

minutes ago, right? You can be a different person literally today. And I think that the good thing about, you know, I've always had like a big thing with monks as well. I remember when I was 16 years old, the very first book that I ever got was the Dalai Lama's book. I think it was like the art of happiness, I think is what it was called. And I thought it was so cool. I was like, man, what would it be like to be a monk?

But I think it goes back to what you're saying is that this book is literally going to still be relevant 100, 200 years from now, because it's just the stuff that they teach is thousands of years old and it hasn't changed in thousands of years because it's true, because it's just the stuff that they teach is thousands of years old. And it hasn't changed in thousands of years because it's true because it's wisdom. Like you're saying it is right. And so I think that for a lot of people, we're so busy in these times that they

just need to take a step back and be like, is this what I want to do? My parents want me to become this. I want to be something else, you know else. And I'm putting this facade up on Instagram. Is that who I truly am? Do I want to be someone else? Driving this car around, is this the car that I truly want? And I think it goes back to finding their purpose more than anything else, which I know that's something you're super passionate about is talking about purpose. But I get a lot of messages and I'm really curious. I'm sure you probably get them as well from people. Somebody who is lazy, they feel lost, they have no motivation

because they feel like they have no purpose. They don't know how to find their purpose. What's kind of some ways that you recommend for people to find their purpose and then actually get past the laziness, which I feel kind of disappears a lot of times when you find that thing that you're truly passionate about. But what are your tips that you give people

when they're just like, man, I don't know what my purpose is. And I'm just kind of lost to this point. Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, thanks for sharing that Jim and Andy, I'm going to check that out. That's such a brilliant example. And an exact, like literally what I'm, the point I'm making it, it's perfect. Everything you said is exactly, uh, and, and I'm a new Jim Carrey went through that. So that's, that's, that's news to me and I can't wait to check it out. So yeah, I think purpose, like a lot of these words in wisdom is spoken about a lot right now and it can get thrown about a bit. And so we have

a lot of misconceptions around what a purpose is and what I wanted to do in the book, Think Like a Monk, I wanted to make sure that I was able to formulate and create frameworks and strategies around some of these themes that seem ethereal or seem hard to kind of like make tangible. And so the word in the Vedic tradition and the Bhagavad Gita that's used as closest to purpose is called Dharma. And Dharma, the closest translation you could do is eternal duty or eternal purpose, basically that timeless purpose. And it can also be compared to psychophysical nature. So what is your natural instinct, your nature that you were born with. And my favorite quote to describe it is always by, I believe it's attributed to Einstein, which says, you know, everyone's a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spend its whole life believing

that it's stupid. And that's what life outside purpose looks like. You're like a fish trying to climb a tree. You're like a bird trying to swim. You're like a fish trying to climb a tree. You're like a bird trying to swim. You're like a crocodile trying to fly. You're like a lion trying to be a bee, right? It's like, it doesn't make any sense. And so laziness comes in because can you imagine a fish trying to climb a tree? I'm pretty sure it's going to give up. I'm pretty sure that fish is going to try for two seconds, realize that it's impossible or feels impossible, and they're going to give up. And that's what happens when we're living a life out of alignment with our purpose. We experience lack of motivation. We experience laziness. We experience a lack of

energy and drive and passion. We feel like we don't want to learn and don't want to grow. And so the challenge with purpose is a matter of being in alignment. So if people are like, I want to be successful, I want to be rich, I want to be famous, or I just want to be happy. Whatever your goal is, and I'm not judging it, you can choose your goal. Without it being aligned to your purpose, it won't feel as meaningful or as fulfilling. So the formula for purpose or dharma that I give in the book, I'm going to simplify it here. And you can dive into in the book, I actually have a 33 question summarizer that actually, when you go through, can help you understand your dharma

better. And so I give these three concepts. Your dharma is your passion plus your expertise plus your compassion equals purpose. So that is the formula. It has three elements, passion, expertise, compassion. And there are lots of models like this that are parallel, which I love. Like if you look at Ikigai, which is reason for being, you'll see some of those elements. Dharma, these are all ancient concepts that work. So let's talk about each of those. Let's talk about passion. People say, oh, Jay, I don't know where to start with my passion. I get that. I feel you on that. But passion is like a teenager. Interest is like a child and curiosity is like the womb. So passion becomes the teenager when you have curiosity in the womb.

And so passion begins with curiosity and interest. Right now, you may not know what you're passionate about, but what are you curious about? What are you interested in? What can you watch a documentary about for three hours? Who can you talk to for two hours? What are you talking to them about? Who is it that you follow that you're jealous of? Who is it that you follow that you're jealous of? Who is it that you follow that you're envious of? Who is it specifically? Because guess what? There may be a lot of people, but you know, there's that one person and you're like, ah, I wish I could have that. That can also be a great reminder. So sometimes your passion is not going to come from, oh, I feel this amazing drive. It's going to come from two things. It's going to come from the potential that you see in curiosity, or it's going to come from your pain. Sometimes passion gets found in pain, the pain of envy,

the pain of jealousy, or the pain of wanting to solve a problem in the world. The pain that you don't want anyone to experience cancer ever again because your family member passed away from cancer, or the pain that you never want to see a kid starve again because you've seen kids hungry on the streets. There are so many pathways to discovering that passion. Now you may say, Jay, I've tried all of those things. I haven't got there. All right. I've got another thing for you. Expertise. What do you have a natural gift in and what are you dying to learn? See, expertise isn't just what you're good at at it's what you are so excited to learn that you're willing to go to classes you're willing to go to workshops you're willing to get personal

training what is it that you are dying to learn and that's one of the biggest mistakes people make with their passion is a lot of time people have just passion and they expect it to become a purpose but your passion can only be used into a purpose if you're actually really good at it. For sure. And this is a part of the ingredient that I think really people miss is they think just because I love it, it's enough. And I'll give you a perfect example. I love football, soccer. I love it. Cristiano Ronaldo is the number one want for me to interview on the podcast because I've followed his career since day one. I'm a huge fan. I would love to sit down with him and pick his mind, but I don't have the desire to wake up at 4 a.m. and work out with Cristiano Ronaldo in the way he

does. I don't have the desire to sit and eat the diet that he does. But guess what? I do want to wake up and meditate. I do want to wake up and learn about wisdom. I do want to wake up and make content to share it with all of you. So I found the area that I'm willing to be dying to learn. And then the final area is compassion. So your passion becomes a purpose when you use it in the service of others. If you're not serving with your passion, it remains a passion. And this is why so many people end up wealthy and successful through their passion but not happy joyful and purposeful because they don't use it in the service of others

so your passion needs a compassion to really become a purpose that's so good and as you're saying it i'm like yeah this formula actually works for me like as i'm looking at it like i always tell people if I didn't do what I do now, I'd still be obsessed with neurology and psychology and early childhood. This is the stuff that I just would love. I just love the human brain and learning about this stuff. And then when you, I think the other important part, like even what you said is doing it for other people, because I remember for me, I had this real big financial goal that I wanted to hit one day and I hit it. And I was like, what the hell do I do now? Right. Like, what am I supposed to do? And I literally, the first thing that popped in my head, it's funny. She said, I said,

what's your Dharma? And I was like, I know what it is. And I just said to myself the whole day, chop wood, carry water, chop wood, carry water. Like, you know what you're supposed to do. It is the service of others. You just go out and you do it. And it's also, you know, it's funny. It's kind of like ingrained to the human brain to just want to do something for somebody else. It makes you feel good to do something for someone else. And so if you can, like you said, something that you are just dying to learn and that ain't attaching it to with, with helping other people, it's, it's crazy because nobody would look at us five years ago, you and I, and be like, Oh, these guys can build businesses from making videos and putting them on Facebook and putting up quotes and doing that type of stuff and, you know, teaching people,

but it ended up working, you know? And, and it was, I think it's because, you know, when you're really passionate about something, when you're really wanting to help other people, you're also really willing to work harder than anybody else that's out there because it's just a part of you. It's, I always say it's like an, it's like my arm. Like if you can't take it away from me, cause I would have like this, this needing to want to learn more and to go teach people and help people in that way. And I think that that's, that's one of the missing pieces that a lot of people have is actually doing it in the service of others, which I've never heard. Um, but now that I'm listening to you, I'm like, man, that is so right. Because it's because you're, you're comfortable doing it till

the day you die and, and waking up and working towards it. Cause it's just fun and you're helping others and it makes you feel good about doing it too. Yeah. And I'm so glad it resonates because I see that all the time. I meet people who have everything, but still feel incomplete because life was never about having everything and not using it. So you'll see even the wealthiest people pledge to give away all of their money or 50% of their money during their lifetime because they realize that it's in the service of others. And, and see serving people doesn't mean just giving in charity. That's a beautiful way to give. And I, and I believe in that and I do that personally. And see, serving people doesn't mean just giving in charity. That's a beautiful way to give. And I believe in that.

And I do that personally. And I value that. And I do think it's a really important thing. But serving others when you may not have a lot is also just using your talents and gifts to help others. So whether you're a photographer, take pictures of things that people will never see and visit and expose it to them.

Take pictures of people in their happiest state that they don't get to see right there are so many ways of turning our gifts and talents into a purpose and actually that's what are the things that stay with you i know you as you know we're both content creators both podcasters it's the it's the views definitely make you happy. A hundred percent. I'm not going to say they don't. So I'm super honest. The money, of course it makes you happy, super honest. But what really stays with you is when you get that message and someone says to you, Jay, Rob, that video stopped me from committing suicide or that podcast changed my life, saved my marriage, saved my relationship, helped me deal with my

kids better. Like those are the things because it's human connection that ultimately brings the joy of the heart. And that's why I see success and happiness as two separate pursuits and don't expect happiness from success and don't expect success from happiness. And everyone really needs to think like that. I've never said that before in my life. So I have no idea where it's come from, but, and we can check it out, but literally there, you cannot, don't expect success to give you happiness and don't expect happiness to give you success. I love success. I love awards. I love achievements. I love targets, but I don't expect them to make me feel happy. I expect them to make me feel successful. But happiness comes from how I feel about myself, my confidence, my ability to love myself, my ability to sit in solitude with my

thoughts. That's what I count on to give me happiness. And when you look at it that way, life becomes a lot more simpler because most of us are trying to interweave the two, trying to increase our happiness to hope that we'll make more money, trying to make more money to hope we become more happy. Yeah. I love that. And I think that, that ultimately it goes down to, I talk about this a lot as being more heart-centered versus head-centered. And I'm really curious with you. And I was talking with Lauren about it before we started, and we've been talking a lot about it with people that are friends with this. Just like I've, you know, since you've been going on a spiritual journey, it's more of like, all right, let me stop thinking in my head.

Like, let me see what my heart feels like. What do I feel is the right, not what do I think is right, but like, what, what is it? What do I feel is the actual right thing? Um, I'm curious from your perspective as a monk, what do like, what do, what's the tips or what's the wisdom that the monks have from, you know, going from your head and then going to your heart that kind of pop up? Cause I'm, I'm really curious their perspective of it. I love that. That's such a, such a beautiful question. And I also just love what you just said. There's, yeah, there's three ways of making decisions. There's the head,

the heart and the gut. And, and, you know, we often always think like think from the gut and, and the gut actually has a lot to tell us about decisions because our digestion happens in the gut. Our butterflies, when we meet our partner, sometimes are experienced in the gut. The gut is actually a very useful way, especially from a physical standpoint of how you feel. And so I would say, if you're trying to figure out how you feel physically or what makes you happy physically,

it's like things that make us feel sick and nauseous. You feel that in the gut. You don't feel that in the heart or the head. So if I'm as a monk, uh, being present with your body means that your gut and your body has the ability to communicate with you about how you feel. And so one of the ways we would look at that is if let's say Lauren and you, and you, I know you both travel together, you're, you're great travel partners, but let's say Lauren and you, and I know you both travel together, you're great travel partners, but let's say you were traveling around like crazy. You were moving around and flying around and your life was really hectic. Chances are Lauren doesn't feel comfortable saying to you

how she feels because you're moving around so much. She doesn't even get a moment for you to be present. So when we're present with our body and mind they can actually communicate with us and that's one of the reasons why stillness and solitude and space as a monk is so powerful because when you slow down when you steady you allow your body to say actually i don't feel so good right and that's one of the reasons why when you slow down you get sick right because your body's been trying to catch up with you for so long and finally you gave it that opportunity so i just want to talk about a gut for a bit. But when we talk about head to heart.

No, but I like that because actually I never even, I always thought gut and heart were kind of the same like feel. Okay, I'm going to do this. But it's interesting to hear that they actually make it three things versus just the two. I'm usually like, is it head or is it heart, gut? Like that's kind of this whole area right here is the way that I see it. But, but for you, that's it, there's actually three different ones that you guys talk about. So that's interesting. That's I've never heard of him that way before. Yeah. The gut's more like a physical, that's what I'm saying. It's very physical. It's, it's like very

like you, I mean, you know, like crude example is you've eaten something terrible. You know what it feels like. So your gut's telling you what it doesn't like and does like on a daily basis. Same with feeling nervous. You can feel in your gut, but you can also feel excitement in your gut. So head and heart though is, is, is a beautiful question. And one of the ways that I think you move from the head and the heart is to, this is, this is hard to do on your own, but, but it's something that I recommend is, is surprising your subconscious. So your head is very conscious and alert and, and kind of, you've built a very strong intellectual platform. So it's hard to get beyond it. And sometimes when I'm working with clients, I'll just go out into nature

and, and I'll say to them, pick one thing that feels like something that's going wrong in your life. Like what metaphorically or what imaginatively looks's going wrong in your life. Like what metaphorically or what imaginatively looks like a block in your life. And then there'll be like, Oh, you know what? That particular color reminds me of something that causes me pain in my mind. And that's it. You're banging to the heart now, because now if I, if I went out and said to them, like, if you, if you walk out there and say, um, I want you to tell me if you're sitting down with a client and you're like, I want you to tell me, what you're sitting down with a client and you're like, I want you to tell me, what are your three biggest problems in life?

Then they're going to tell you the three that are on, like if you told me, Jay, what are your biggest challenges today? I could reel them off to you because I think about them. But when you just ask someone like, tell me something that stands out to you right now that you see and what does it mean to you? You've tapped into your heart.

So I do that with myself too. I'll just look out sometimes and be like, you know, what is it that I'm feeling when I look at this tree? What is it that I'm feeling when I look at this book? What is it that I'm just experiencing in this moment? And that takes a bit of practice, but it's a beautiful technique that really works, especially if you're working with someone else, you can ask someone to do it on you. Another way to move from the head to the heart is I believe a lot of our positive emotions live there. So often what I'll do is I'll write down all my options or opportunities in life. And above them, I'll write why I would take them. Like, why would I go down that path? So let's say

I have a new podcast opportunity. I have a new collaboration. I have a new brand partnership I could work with. And I'll write down the four motivations. And I talk about these four motivations in my book. All of us do everything for four main reasons, security, money or results, fame and influence, or knowledge and growth. Those are the four key motivations of life and knowledge and love and growth. I would put love up there. Right. And so if you want to simplify it, it's basically fear, results, love. Those are the three key motivations that we do anything for. We either do things out of fear. We do things because we think it's going to make us win. We do things out of love. And I've realized time and time again,

that it's not necessarily about doing everything out of love. It's just having a deep awareness of what you're doing for what. And that's the conversation of the heart. Yeah. The head wants you to pick and perfect everything. The heart just wants you to feel and be honest and experience. So I'll write down, okay, I've got these three options this week. Which one am I doing for love? Which one am I doing just for the results? And which one am I doing out of fear? And as time goes on, I try and remove myself doing things out of fear. In the beginning, that may mean removing that opportunity. As you get more mature, what you want to do is try and upgrade that, the love. And how can I do that out of love? So that's one way that I try and access the heart. And the third and final way, I wanted to give three things that I think that I've definitely done to understand the heart more is allow yourself to voice note, journal, and speak

from your heart with people. If you're only ever like, I'm trying to do this interview today from my heart. I know my book Inside Out, I could do this, I could do that, I could talk about this chapter. But it's like, I just want to speak to a friend from the heart. And I'm like, the more I do that, the better interview we're going to have, the more people will be touched because you can't touch someone's heart. If you're not touching your own, like if you're not speaking from your own heart, you're not going to speak to anyone's. And so I think for me, it's being in communities where it's encouraged. I did an interview for the book

yesterday and the interviewer was saying how much they appreciate me. And they're like, Jay, look, I don't want this to turn into like how much I love you. And I was just like, no, you know what? Carry on. Because why am I going to block you speaking from the heart? For sure. That's such, and it wasn't like, oh, I want to feel better because you love me. It was, it was more like, how beautiful is that? That someone feels confident enough to open up their heart on a public forum, like you did at the beginning of this podcast. And why are we discouraging that? Because it's uncool to be that way or maybe it doesn't make you feel superior so i think we need to be in more communities around more people that let us

speak from there so we can access it more yeah that's so true man i have a friend who he's definitely more longer into the path of of spirituality and you know he's uh he's definitely more longer into the path of, of spirituality. And, you know, he's, uh, he's 49 and about to be 50. And he will just text me out of nowhere and be like, I love you. And at first it was kind of weird because I was like, what is this? Like, why is it so, it's easy for me to like, send that back to like one of my friends. That's, you know, that that's a female that I've known forever. Why do I have this resistance to it? And I'm like, oh man, I need to dive into this feeling. And you start to realize that, what is it? Is it, is it the satsang in the sangha? Is that what it is? Is that right? The community, right? Yeah. Which you need a community of people. And that's

one of the things that I think is really big that a lot of people don't pay attention to is just the community of people that you surround yourself with are going to open you up or close you down more. And, uh, I've never thought of it that way of, of when you can finally start to speak to people and not feel judged by saying what's authentically you good or bad, um, is where you really start to see growth in yourself. And, uh. And I love that, man. That's great. That is a huge way. I've never been asked that question in my life.

It was beautiful. Yeah, I think that's a huge way to like, number one, know about yourself more, but then also be able to really come from the heart because you can connect with other people. Absolutely, man. It's awesome. And you said one of the biggest parts of that,

as you said, becoming still, you know, and feeling and all that stuff. So I'm going to ask you the most, everyone wants to know it, who's listening. So I'm going to ask you the most stereotypical question to ask someone who is a monk or once was a monk with becoming still. Um, because there's so many people out there that want to meditate and you probably get this message a million times a day is, you know, what is your routine look like as far as meditation goes? And then for someone who wants to make it simple and just start getting into it, what do you recommend for them? Yeah, absolutely. So in the book, I have three main sections and I

break down the three main types of meditation that I was introduced to as a monk and literally are the overarching elements. So there's breathwork, there's visualization, and there's mantra. Those are the three forms of meditation. Breathwork is generally for aligning the body and the breath. Visualization is for healing and feeling the mind and mantra is for the soul, the spirit, uh, for energy. So that's kind of how it's broken down. And so I, I talk about each in the book and I give exercises for each in the book and I'll, I'll share some of that practice now. So my practice includes all three. My personal practice is about one and a half hours to two hours a day. And I practice around, I would say, I probably do about five minutes of breath work,

five minutes of visualization. And then the next one hour, 20 or one hour, 50, depending on what my day's like, will be mantra and sound. And that's because that's how I was trained. It's what works for me. But I find myself doing breath work throughout the day. So it's breath work is something that I've tried to do less, uh, in a concentrated way, but spread out. So I'll breathe, uh, before I do a medit, uh, before I do a call, I'll breathe while I'm emailing, I'll breathe while I'm doing

everything. And when I say breathe, I mean, intentionally. Right. Uh, so that's how my personal program looks. And the reason why I find all of them are so powerful is because you almost can't access the next level of depth without aligning the gates. They're all almost like gates. So it's like, I can't access energy or the source or divine power or whatever you want to call it, the spirit or the soul. I can't access any of that without first aligning just my body and my breath. Because guess what? Most of us, either our mind is ahead of our body or our body's ahead of our mind. How many times do you wake up in the morning? You're just like, oh, my mind is so tired, but my body's ready to roll, right? Or

you have the opposite. You're like, your body's like, oh, I'm still in bed, but your mind's like, oh no, we need to get and do stuff. 100%. So our mind and our body, always for all of us, our mind and our body are always in friction and against each other. So when you breathe in for the same amount of time as you breathe out, it's a simple way of just aligning your body and your breath. So I'll breathe in for a count of four and I'll breathe out for a count of four. I may up-level it and breathe in for a count of four, hold for four, and out for four. This is a beautiful way of just realigning your breath. And I'm sure you've had experiences, everyone who's listening or watching in your life, where you always say, I'm out of breath. I need to catch my breath. Let me take a breath. It took my breath away. Every emotion is related

to breath. So when you're running late or you're stressed or you're anxious, you're usually out of breath. When you breathe in for the same amount of time as you breathe out, you're just aligning your breath again. So that's breath work. Visualization is probably one of my favorite, favorite, favorite meditation practices because you can either visualize a place that allows you to extract energy from it. So if you're like, Jay, I'm having a really stressful day, but you know, there's this beautiful lake that you love visiting, or maybe you visited on your travel. And I know Rob and Lauren travel a lot. They've been to some beautiful places. And so you may say, Jay,

I'm in the middle of quarantine. I can't go back there. And what you'll do is you'll just relive that moment and you'll experience all the joy from that moment. That could have been with a person, could have been with a parent, could have been anything. So you can go there now in the future and re-experience it, or you can go back to the past and relive a positive memory. And these are beautiful ways of keeping things that are important to us close and beautiful methods. So that's one part of visualization. And the other part of visualization is you can also go back and heal a memory. So you may not be happy with the last thing you said to someone before they passed away. You may not be pleased with the last behavior you had with someone

before you're not friends anymore, but now you're out of touch. You may feel that you didn't forgive someone or that someone didn't forgive you, and you can revisit that moment and at least change how you felt you could have behaved in it. Now, that doesn't change the situation, but it changes your perception of the situation. That's what we're ultimately trying to change. And visualization, of course, can really be powerful for visualizing where you want to be, who you want to be. And I always say to people, don't visualize the result. Visualize the process.

So don't visualize being best friends with someone. Visualize yourself doing the habit or the activity that heals a relationship. Don't visualize someone that you were rude to in the past just loving you. Visualize yourself apologizing, asking for forgiveness or them asking for forgiveness that creates that. I love that. It's the process, not the result. So that's visualization.

And then finally is mantra. Mantras are ancient sounds that can be repeated. It can also be done with gongs and flutes and sounds of the ocean or nature sounds. And mantras are believed to have powerful sound vibration and frequency that affect different layers inside of us. And so there's a lot of research showing that like 417 hertz is great for healing negativity. And all of these different frequencies are really powerful for different energies inside of us. And so for me, really powerful for different energies inside of us. And so for me, I will chant different mantras at different times. Some mantras are for prayers for others. So there's this beautiful one that I've been saying recently, because I think the world needs it. And I need it too, to have

compassion in me. It's called Sarva Sukhino Bhavantu. And it means may there be happiness for all. So that is a mantra. That's what it means. And then there are other mantras that people are more aware of, like Aum, that can be chanted. And so finding a mantra that really speaks to you, that really speaks to your heart and repeating it. People find mantra one of the most powerful ways to redirect the mind because mantra creates a beautiful connection with your lips, the sound, your eyes closed, you can really immerse in it. And so that's the longest part of my practice. So hopefully that helps. And in the book, I present at the end, I present something called

the monk method and the monk method teaches you a simple 21 minute practice, which incorporates all three of these. So in 21 minutes, you can experience the breath work, the visualization and the mantra. And it's called the monk method in the book. I love that. And with the mantras, I'm curious, do you guys use, do you use mala beads when you go through there or do you just, you do? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So we have these, yeah. What, what Rob said, mala beads, which are like these chanting beads, they're made of a ancient sacred wood in India called Tulsi, which is the ones that I use.

And these beads, the reason why you have them is when you engage as many of your senses in the present as possible, the more likely you are to be present. So your beads are touching the hand, you're repeating the mantra, so you're speaking and you can hear the mantra. You now got three senses completely present in this practice. And so the beads are a beautiful way of making, and you see these in all traditions. You have rosary beads in Christianity. You have, you know, I'm sure there's beads in other traditions. There's beads in Buddhism, in Hinduism. And so these are just beautiful tools that were created to help us all be more present and be more in the now.

Love it. Well, man, before we go into the last question, I want to tell everybody, if they haven't gotten it yet, they should go buy Think Like a Monk. It is, if you're listening to this before September 8th, you can go ahead and you can buy it on pre-order if you're listening, September 8th, am I correct?

Yeah, you're right, man. And then if you listen to it after, you can go ahead and go buy it on Amazon, Barnes & Noble. You can go to any bookstore. It's all over the world. I'm sure you said it's going to be in Target and all of that stuff as well. So go out and buy it. I highly recommend it. Thank you, man. I appreciate it. For sure. And it's cool to see it kind of come to fruition because I remember years ago, we were talking about how you want to write a book and kind of help get the wisdom out of what you've learned in the Bhagavad Gita and all that. And it's like, it's here.

Like, it's physically in my hand, Jay. Like, how crazy is that, man? Literally, that book has everything that we've talked about. Like, I quote every monk tradition in the world. So I studied Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism. So you have a ton of monk traditions. You have female monks, male monks, and their stories and their backgrounds

and showing you how they weren't all spiritual. I've got stories of a lady who said that, you know, I hated my husband and that's why I became a Buddhist. And there's the whole story in there about how she did it. And Emma Slade, who was like working in this incredible corporation and then chose to be a monk a buddhist

monk so there are so many stories in there of just not just my transformation but but so many other people that have transformed their life to think like a monk and and i genuinely believe that you don't have to live like a monk to think like a monk and if you're interested in eastern spirituality and eastern traditions then that book is fully infused with me tearing up not tearing apart taking apart or unpacking uh these these timeless truths and wisdom pieces that are in this book so i've kind of selected my favorite sections and almost tried to expand upon them in this book that's's the aim. It's awesome. I feel like people need it right now for sure. For sure. So I know you're not huge on legacy, which I love because I feel the same way of just doing whatever I can and whatever happens to me after it happens to me after whether someone

ever talks about me again or not, it's all good. But I have a question that I asked people at the end. I'm really curious with you. There's a quote that says, you die twice. The first time is when you stop breathing. And the second time is the last time someone says your name. So I'm curious with you between the first and second death between the moment when you stop breathing in the moment, when's the last time someone says your name, what do you, uh, what do you hope people say about you? That's a good question. I really liked that. I've never heard that quote before either. It's beautiful. And I I'm glad that we would both disagree with the second part of it. But your question to me is if I had to choose what someone would say about me,

what would it be? You're not giving me a choice to say. There is no choice. I mean, here's the thing. I love it because I feel the same way of just like legacy is legacy. It is what it is. You know, it's, it's, it's do what you can while you're here. I think a legacy sometimes for a lot of people is actually like come sometimes even the fear of death. Like what's if I need to live on past this thing. But I think ultimately what we're really diving into is you making an impact on some other person. And so what, what type of impact do you want to have so much in the time that you hear that it lives on at least for a little while? I think it would be that, I think it would be that I was able to introduce people or reintroduce people to the timeless wisdom of the world, which everyone very much needs and never goes out of fashion or date.

And so that's it for me. It's that people would feel that I was able to reintroduce them and that if I'm talking about my character, then I would hope that people would always feel that I care, I loved, and I had deep, sincere intention to serve. But really that they would just say that I was able to reintroduce the

world to the timeless wisdom of all of these incredible books that I've wonderfully been presented by and that I really cared. And that's why I shared from them. I think that would be a really deep, meaningful way to bow out bow out, uh, by, by giving people a, an alternative life path and way of living. So hopefully that answers your question. It's a beautiful question. Yeah, I think that's great, man. And I think it's, I think, well, from, from what I do know about you, uh, it's, it's already on that path, which is what's great, uh, is, is I see a lot of the stuff that you do and the selflessness that you have. And, you know, even the time that you just give somebody that comes up to you that wants a picture and that type of stuff, man, just to be able to give somebody some time. And it's beautiful because what you just said is as humble as you are, which isn't even taking any credit for it.

You're just a messenger for wisdom that's been around for a while. And I love it, man. It's been so cool to see the journey that you've been on. And it's crazy what's happened in three years and how amazing it's gotten. But if you think another three, 10, 30 years, I'm so excited to see where you are and what you've done. And I appreciate you, man.

And I recommend everybody go out and get the book because it's great. And I think a lot of people need it right now. And I can't wait to see what happens in the future. Rob, you're a sweetheart, man. I appreciate that very much. It's, you know, it's, yeah, when you poured your, you know, I think, you know, we've talked about this. I never thought that any of this would happen, let alone be possible. Right. And so I'm living a blessing every single day. Like I'm just, I'm, I'm just grateful. I'm humbled by it. I feel a huge sense of

responsibility. Uh, and, and I haven't stopped for that reason. And I think that's the, I think that to me is the thing. It's that it was never about getting anywhere. It was always about going more inwards. And so, yeah, just keep being in my life. Keep reminding me of why I'm doing what I'm doing. And it's a joy to know you, man. And this has been a lot of fun. You've really asked me a ton of stuff and I've shared a lot of stuff that I, not just haven't said before,

but that I was almost having a lot of reflective experiences through this podcast because of the nature of your questioning. And I love that. Like that gets me really excited. And we barely dove into any of the, uh, any of the content in the book. So that, that makes me really happy that we were, we really got somewhere else through one of our reflective conversations. And now they have to go buy the book to learn even more about it. That's the best. This is beautiful, man. Your community is awesome. And I'm so glad.

And I can't wait to do a lot more with you. Yeah, buddy. I appreciate you. Thank you, man. Thank you.