The Mindset Mentor - Living in Complete Darkness for 7 Days w/ Aubrey Marcus

Episode Date: December 17, 2021

Do you think you could make it 7 days in complete darkness and complete silence? Well, that is what my buddy Aubrey Marcus did! And in this episode, we’re going to be talking about his new documentary Awake in the Darkness and all of the amazing lessons that came from his week in the dark. If you want to make 2022 the best year of your life, join my IronMind30! My 30-Day Mindset Challenge that starts on January 1st here: https://www.theironmind30.com/ Want to learn more about Mindset Mentor+? For nearly nine years, the Mindset Mentor Podcast has guided you through life's ups and downs. Now, you can dive even deeper with Mindset Mentor Plus. Turn every podcast lesson into real-world results with detailed worksheets, journaling prompts, and a supportive community of like-minded people. Enjoy monthly live Q&A sessions with me, and all this for less than a dollar a day. If you’re committed to real, lasting change, this is for you.Join here 👉 www.mindsetmentor.com My first book that I’ve ever written is now available. It’s called LEVEL UP and It’s a step-by-step guide to go from where you are now, to where you want to be as fast as possible.📚If you want to order yours today, you can just head over to robdial.com/bookHere are some useful links for you… If you want access to a multitude of life advice, self development tips, and exclusive content daily that will help you improve your life, then you can follow me around the web at these links here:Instagram TikTokFacebookYoutube

Welcome, everybody. I'm excited to have my buddy Aubrey Marcus here. Round two. Round two, let's go. You're one of the few people. I think I've only done round two with one other person on the podcast. I feel honored. So I'm honored to have you. And we were talking a couple weeks ago and we were talking about this new documentary that came out. I was like, we got to talk about this in the podcast because number one i told you right before you started there's a freakish part of me that wants to do it and i want to talk about it

i want to make this this this medicine aware for people to know that it's out there um who do want to get into it um and i'm excited to dive in so to to give a quick overview, you spent seven days in complete darkness, like literally no bit of light. You can't see your hand in front of your face, right? It has to be absolute black. Yeah. And I'll clarify it was six days, not quite a full seven,

but it has to be absolute, absolute black. Like any bit of light turns the darkness retreat into some form of solitary confinement right like the medicine is in the absolute it's like an absolute fast like if you have like a little sandwich you're not fasting you're just not eating as much and with the darkness it's the same thing the darkness has to be absolute so they have to engineer the room that you're in to make sure that no light gets in and like light is leaky this is not an easy engineering thing to solve because it comes through different bottoms of doors the cracks of windows the little little vent that might you know let some light in bouncing off this thing to this thing

and uh you get in there and you immerse yourself in the absolute black and very, very interesting things happen. Of course, it involves also absolute silence the whole time and isolation from everybody else. So it's just you and whatever is inside your mind and your heart and your spirit that you start to interact with. very interesting thing happens around day three, four, or five, depending on the individual, where you start to experience an endogenous DMT trip. And for anybody who's drank ayahuasca or experienced DMT, it's a very potent psychoactive psychedelic. And it feels not like necessarily the peak of one of these journeys where you're blasted off into other dimensional realities, but you're in a constant vision state. And I was in a constant vision state for three days straight, not stopping the whole time, just seeing visions and fractals and things that would come into my vision space. So it's one of the more unique medicines because you're not taking

anything other than just completely immersing yourself in the darkness. Yeah. Before we dive into the actual trip itself of the DMT, the question I'm sure most people out there, well, first off, I would say 95% of people have already said, fuck that. That's probably what's already happened. Yeah, for sure. And to them, my first response, because I remember I've've talked to a couple people about how we're going to be having this interview and they're like yeah fuck that i would never do that my first question to them is why like why would you not yeah it's literally you there's no substance there's nothing that i mean it's just what's inside of you is what you're afraid of which is pretty wild if you actually

think about it so let's take a step back because I know a lot of people are thinking this, why did you do this? What's the reason why you decided, hey, I'm going to go into the darkness for six and a half days? I'm an interesting individual. I am sensitive and I will get my ass kicked. And that's partly because I put myself out there in really bold and daring ways. I mean, eight years of polyamory, in really bold and daring ways. You know, I mean, eight years of polyamory, talk about bold and daring. You know, I didn't have a map. I didn't have a coach. I didn't know exactly how to do it.

And, you know, me and my partner, Whitney, we figured it out the best we could. We hurt each other a lot. We loved each other a lot, but it was brutal. And I was carrying a lot of damage from that. A lot of stress and challenge and things that had occurred over 10 years of building on it at that point. And a lot of just baggage that I felt like I was carrying, and I didn't know how to alleviate it. I didn't know the way to get it out of me. And so it was almost to the point where, and I have a lot of tools, man. I have my breathwork practice, my meditation practice, my ecstatic dance practice, my plant medicine practice.

I felt like I needed something different, something that was, and when I heard about the darkness, something just clicked inside me and I was like, yeah, this is it. So I'd love to say that this was this heroic idea of like, I want to explore, you know, the deepest parts of my inner cosmos, but it was part that and part like, man, I'm just hurting. I'm in pain, you know, I'm in pain and I need something that's going to help me get through this. And the only way that I know to get through anything is to go right into it. You know, just look it dead in the eye and say, all right, what's hurting? I'm going to go right through that and see what comes out the other side. Yeah. And the thing about it, I was talking

with my fiance this morning about it, where it's like, when you go into a psychedelic experience, like you do ayahuasca, you're like, at least I get to have breakfast in eight hours. Like, I know we're going to be done. Like, I is ending. That's the beautiful thing about it. But for this, it makes sense because when you do a psychedelic sometimes, it's like a blast of information. And then the most important part is integration, trying to put all the pieces together and fit them in your life. So did you feel with this, because it was kind of a longer lasting, that there was a little bit more of an integration while it was happening as well? Yeah. That's the interesting thing about any psychedelic journey is you go and you have these incredible transcendental experiences, an encounter with the numinous. And then you go to sleep and you wake up the next morning and it kind of feels like it was a dream.

Right. and it kind of feels like it was a dream. Right. You know, and in this one, you're in there so long and it's so constant that this idea of wiping the slate clean with sleep and waking up fresh the next morning, dying at night and rising like the sun in the morning, that doesn't happen. You're just in this constant six-day journey.

So you're integrating and dealing with things on this steady level. And so, yeah, the integration is happening while you're doing it. It still requires a lot of integration of when you come out because everything in the world seems and feels different when you're finished. So it's not to say that there isn't integration that comes with this but it's it's like it soaks into you in a different way like if you were a shirt that you're trying to dye in in a color it's like you're you're soaking yourself in the void and the void and what you experience in the void is just an inextricable part of you yeah yeah it's kind of like it's funny, the shirt example, because I don't usually wear a whole lot of light colors

because I spill everything on myself, no matter what, it's happening. I'm like, this shirt today is getting fucked up. I already know that it is, it's happening. And it's like, whenever it does happen though, I leave it in water overnight versus trying to scrub it out. And you know, it's like you leave it in water

and it starts to pull out all the little bits that are stuck inside of it. You make it the next morning and most of it's usually pretty much gone because it's been soaking for so long. I'm curious though with this whole situation and going up and doing it, was there a point? Because I watched a documentary when we talked before you and I talked and I watched it again so I can make sure I could be ready for it. you and I talked and I watched it again so I could make sure I could be ready for it. When I did the 10-day Vipassana, the silent meditation retreat, I would say the first half of it was me trying to hurry it along. And like, come on,

fucking let's go. Let's get it done. The first three days was a lot of me battling with my own mind. And I had this really weird breaking point where it was like day five. I'm like very calm. I don't have any rage. Day five, like all of this rage came out of me. Yeah, me too. And I was, it was literally in this beautiful center, these amazing people all meditating and my back was sore. I was meditating for so damn long

and I was like, fuck this. Fuck these people. Fuck whoever made this up. Then we get done with the meditation. We go to the lunch that we have. And I'm literally in my mind, cussing out every single person that's walking. Like I'm talking like rage.

And I'm like, fuck this place. Why did I do this? Fuck this guy. The guy sits down in front of me, like at the table. And in my head, I'm like, fuck you, man. Like it was just like, it was coming out of me. And at least in my mind, it was coming out of me. And I was like, I'm going to go through one more meditation.

I'm not leaving this. There's no way I'm leaving. I don't give And I was like, I'm going to go through one more meditation. I'm not leaving this. There's no way I'm leaving. I don't give up on anything. But I'm going to go through one more meditation and just allow this rage to exist. And I was pissed the whole meditation. I got done with it and it was just gone. And it was gone. And then from there on, it was like bliss.

Like I'm talking about, like I was meditating for a few hours and I was just like crying because of how, I was like, I can't believe that life is this beautiful. Like I can't believe how amazing this is. Did you have a, like, what was your journey over the course of these days? And was there a breaking point where something like that could have happened to you? Many breaking points. Really?

Many breaking points. So at the start of the journey, this is before you have, you're in the vision space and you're getting used to things. It's like this experience of being kind of overwhelmed by changing your ordinary reality to this other reality that you're not familiar with at all. And what I found myself doing was trying to fix all of my internal issues by some external choice. By like day two, I had determined that I was moving cities, changing roles, stopping everything I was doing, finding new partners. Everything was new. My whole life was different. I was like, there, see, fixed it. And then- As if the external world was the issue.

Exactly. That was the problem. And then I started to realize around day three i was like well that's dumb like actually my life is fucking amazing it's exactly the life that i would create from scratch if i could so it's not that it's something that's internal and there was just different things that started to emerge that were hidden underneath the surface one of them was rage i had a full at least half a day i mean time is weird in there too because you don't exactly know how long things are and no access to a clock you don't you don't see the sun everything is kind of and they mix up the time where they serve you the food so you don't really mess you up yeah just to make sure that you're not even tracking time in any way i could hear roosters though so i knew at least that like in the morning at some point there was

some roosters around um but for at least at least six eight hours i was like so full of rage and i don't think of myself as an angry person you know i don't but all of these little things and i was having these like arguments in my head where I was just eviscerating people. There's no one there, but I'm just going through it. Like those arguments you have in the shower where you're just going back and forth, playing both sides and just getting more and more fired up. I was doing that to the point where I was literally seething. And then there was a point where that passed and underneath it was just sadness and grief. And so I had to go through this big grief stage. And the grief was another huge gate that I had to cross through. And I also was not aware of how much grief I had and how much fear I had. had and how much fear I had. And so it really reveals as it peels off one layer deeper, one layer deeper, like what's underneath the surface, you know, sadness about my father losing his

mental health, sadness about, you know, what had happened in my relationship with Whitney and how I'd shown up to that in a way that wasn't in the truest unconditional love that I could. I was loving her and judging her at the same time always. I was preventing myself from loving my life to the very fullest because I had this, like many of us, this feeling like, well, if I love it and something goes bad, then I have to give it away. So it was like preventing myself from enjoying it so just in case shit hit the fan then i would be safe which is not how i want to live i want to live like a warrior poet not like someone who's safely protecting myself

from the joy and bliss and love that's all around me just in case it goes away or I die or whatever happens. So it was this constant revelation of thing after thing after thing that was inaccessible to me. Yeah. Yeah, you bring up a good point because that was one of the things I wanted to talk about was the fear of love. Like just to fear it because there's a couple aspects of the fear of love. One of the things I think about with the fear of love is Ram Dass

always says, like, if you were to fully open your heart up, there'd be homeless people living in your house. Yeah. Because then you would see their side. You would realize that you are one. And you'd see somebody on the side of the road and be like, I have extra rooms in my house. Right. You know, like I have two rooms in my house I barely ever use. Somebody could stay there. But then there's like the fear part of it of like, no, but what if they're serial killers? What if they steal my shit? And it's this fear of us not wanting to fully open up.

And we can do that in relationships because it's like, if I don't fully open up and this doesn't work, well, at least I won't be hurt as bad. And so it sounds like what you came in contact with was the fear of actually letting yourself open up. There's a part where you talk about the fear of your mom's love. And we've had conversations off the podcast before where you talk about like, your mom

was one example of like unconditional love. Yeah. But still there was a part of you that was resisting allowing that in, right? Yeah. This was at the really core of a lot of my deepest fear was the fear of hope, fear of love, fear of everything that was good because I wanted to protect myself from the slap of disappointment. And I don't know if it's completely universal or if I got a particularly strong dose of that because my father was capricious in certain ways. He could be really loving, but something

could happen and he would snap and it was all cold and rageful and icy. And I had a great relationship with my father, I would say, but that was a pattern, right? It was like, everything's good. Everything's good. I'm in a world of love. And then all of a sudden, boom, no more love coming from that source. Maybe that gave me an added proclivity to be afraid of opening myself to love but interestingly you know on the other side like you said my mom was a a beacon of unconditional love but still i couldn't allow myself to really like really take it in and still it's something that i have to remind myself you know like of these lessons because of course my mom's gonna pass at some point you know and like do you have

the courage to love love someone so much that when they pass it's going to devastate you and but that's a trade that is worth making. Yeah, all right. It's going to be devastating no matter what. But you know what's way more devastating? Is never having fully allowed yourself to love to the extent that's possible. That's what's really devastating. And having to live the rest of your life realizing that you didn't open yourself up while that was here. Exactly. That's the horror of horrors to have gone through your life and say, wow, I protected myself from the greatest feeling available in this universe, the substrate upon which everything is founded. My friend Makad has this idea that love is like gravity.

It's this force that's pulling us all closer together. And our efforts to resist it are ultimately futile and insane. Because this is the thing that is the commonality between all of us. And to live your life without really feeling that, that's the only tragedy there is. Even if you live a 30-year life or a 20-year life or a 50-year life but you love the whole way you know this is where that lakota saying the native american saying okay hey you know today is a good day to die that's what that means it means you lived a life so full of love and you experienced that infinite present moment of love so many times that you don't have

to count the quantity of it, but you felt it. And that's just a guide star ever since the darkness that I remember. And I forget, but I remember, all right, just in this moment, how much love can you possibly take in and feel? And it's really more of a choice than we realize. Yeah. Hey, if you are hiring, you need to check out Indeed. Indeed makes it easier for star applicants to shine with over 135 assessment tests from cooking all the way to coding. And what you do is you pick all of the skills that are important to you from all of the

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off their first purchase by going to truniagen.com slash dial and use the code dial at checkout. That's T-R-U-N-I-A-G-E-N.com slash dial. Code dial to save 10% off your purchase. truniagen.com slash dial. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration, and this product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any illness. Do you feel like that was, you know, in the documentary, you talk about rite of passages, and, you know, I've been talking a lot

about rite of passages with the way we want to get married, the wedding that we want to have. It's like, it's supposed to be a rite of passage, you know? But a lot of times people get married and the whole day goes by real quick, and then they wake up the next day and they're like, yeah, it feels exactly the same as the way that did before. Do you feel like for you, because before then you were, you know, polyamorous and you were in multiple relationships and open relationships and now you're married and you're not. And so do you feel like that was almost like the rite of passage for you to be like, all right, I can actually like fully give myself to one person and be okay with the possibility of this person, you know,

tragedy could happen with me or with her. Like, do you feel like that was like almost a rite of passage for you to be able to open yourself up to that? Totally. I mean, think about it. If you're polyamorous, even though you you love everybody you've basically diversified your love sources right it's like a it's like a good wealth manager you know like you got this basket in real estate you got this basket in crypto you got this basket in business you got this basket in over here and if one of these things fails no worries you got another thing to support yourself and that's how we manage and mitigate fear with this kind of CEO mentality. And I was kind of doing that in my relationships.

Well, and I would really rely on that. Oh, well, this one's falling apart or this person hates me right now, which happens frequently in polyamory, no matter how earnestly and honestly you try, it's going to be really hard. But there was always somebody else. There was always somebody else that I could share i could share that love with so i felt safe and i think yeah you're right you know to really open myself up to this sacred union with violana i needed to be able to love to the fullest extent possible with the highest risk possible that ultimately something could happen she could leave me,

she could get hurt, but I would have the courage no matter what to do that. And also the ability to find love at a deeper and deeper level. And I think talking about marriage, which I'd love to talk more about in relationship, because this has been a huge thing that's come on the other side of this rite of passage. But to find novelty at the depth of love, right? Like we always have this desire for novelty. Novelty draws us into a state of awe and presence. And in polyamory, you can find novelty with each different person. That first date, the reason why I think people like meeting a new person is because you're so present. It's like a podcast.

I know both of us share like, we love these podcasts because there's not a thought about our phone. There's not a thought about what comes next. We're right here having a conversation. That's what it's like when you're with a new person. Everything is alive and you're right there in the moment. But you can get that with the same person. You can get that with your partner. And you just have to be willing to surrender to a deeper and deeper level of love. And it's an infinite portal

that goes all the way to the divine. And if you can allow yourself to find novelty at each level, you won't get bored. That's wild. So is there anything that you've that you've noticed or started to do to be able to because you've been married now for over a year right a year and a half year and a half you've known her for a while so is there any practices that maybe because i'm sure there's people out there they've been in relationships for a while they've been married for

20 years listening to this that you guys have found that have helped you keep novelty in the same relationship yep so if you look at the ancient texts in a variety of different ways the ancient taoist tantric text the hindu tantric text the so many texts talk about this thing called tantra and i think we've all heard the word and i had two and i thought thought it was like, you know, I kind of conflated it with Kama Sutra, like doing some weird sex positions or some different things. And I think people think about that like, oh yeah, well maybe we'll do this weird thing and it'll be novel or we'll dress up and I'll be a cop and you'll be a criminal and we'll arrest you. And that can be fun or whatever, but it's not

getting into the real magic of what's available in the sexual dynamic between partners. And I think it's almost a real necessity to have some grasp of these concepts in order to go deeper. So, you know, Vailana and I have put together what we call the rainbow sutras which is seven different types of energies that we can cultivate together and every time we go into one of these with intentionality we'll find a different level of energy like a different access point to the energy of union that comes between us. And there's all varieties. Some is more like breath work and eye gazing.

Some is fully sexual and very passionate. Some involves power exchange dynamics and tapping and pushing those buttons and triggers. And I think this is really what we've identified as the key to be able to create this kind of deepening of a bond and also the opening of using our physical bodies as vehicles to allow us access to really magical and divine states of energetic expression. states of energetic expression. So what would a, for people that are out there and interested in this, what would a breath work session look like between the two of you? And then what would a, like an eye gazing practice look like as well? Eye gazing is a interesting thing. And really, so you get pretty close to one another and you just start syncing up your breath. And I like to do these in conjunction, really sync up your breath. You can breathe up first, like do some Wim Hof breaths.

My brother Lucas Mack has a style called awakened breath work, which is very similar to Wim Hof, but it's a little bit softer back of the throat breathing, but deep. So it sounds like this so you could do like a cycle of 30 40 of those and we usually like to do that and that clears out some of the some of the energy and then just lock gaze and soften your eyes and soften your eyes until things get a little fuzzier and the eyes start to get clearer and everything around starts to soften and then all of a sudden there'll be this portal of energy where there's just that person's eyes starting to happen right now right like this interesting portal and then interesting things will start to happen to the energy in the room

the energy that you feel and like what you see and you might get distracted you might have to blink but you just keep with that gaze and just allow it to soak in again it's like the darkness like soak it in soak it in and then visions of their face might appear to you, messages might come through, and you could be holding hands and just allowing this the time to really see what is there behind the surface. See the light behind the person, not just the person, but the real divine spark inside your partner. We should have sex now. It was getting deep. What's crazy though is your eyes start to, my eyes are starting to water and it's, I've done this before, even with, and it's, it can be the first few times I did it.

When you do with another, like I've done it in masterminds and stuff where you do with another man and there's a part of you that wants to resist it because you're like, oh, this isn't right. This isn't what I'm supposed to be doing. Men are not supposed to be intimate with each other or any of that way, but it's not intimacy in a sexual way. It can be, but it's not in any sort of way. It's like, there's a being that's behind all of this stuff that I've, this Aubrey that you've built, there's something behind that. And it's kind of like trying to find a way to connect to that version of them and be like,

hey, I'm gonna let you see me. Can I see you? And it's just a deeper level of connection that can happen between two humans, whether it's same sex, opposite sex, sexual relationship, friendship, which is, I feel a level of intimacy that people don't really have anymore right i agree and this is so this is what we call the

white sutra and white because really what you're accessing is the pure divine light behind you know behind the bulb like the energy itself behind the bulb like the the source that's lighting everything up through the cells all of the energy the movement the talking the the growth of the hair the replenishment of the skin the cleaning of the liver everything that's happening there's a there's an energy source there's a light that's emanating that's causing all of your body to animate and you get an access point to really see that and And so, yeah, the white, the white sutra is completely non-sexual, but when you take the time to do it, you know, it's really, really powerful. And like you said, this is something that doesn't need to be reserved purely for your

partner. I mean, it's really, really powerful, especially with a stranger. You know, when I do this in my fit for service fellowships and our gatherings and people are just paired up with another person, then I've done this as well in different gatherings where I've, you know, been guided through this experience. That person is, you don't look at them the same way the whole rest of the week you're around them. Like you them and you're like you feel like oh yeah like i know you like i see you and there's this beautiful resonance that develops and so yeah that's just one of the tools that you know is a part of tantra it's a part of like cultivating the subtle energy that exists between two people yeah let's go back back to the whole thing where you were talking about

it's a realization that you had, and I've heard you talk about it on your podcast, but also inside of the documentary as well, of the realization you had of you and Whitney and your dynamic that you had. Because I feel like the way you explain and what you went through is actually not uncommon. I feel like it's very common for people to go through and have a relationship where there is, I love you, but I judge you. Or, you know, I talked to Jay Shetty about this one time when we went to have dinner where it's like, I love you, but I want to change you to be more like me. A lot of people do that. And then we talked about how terrible would it be though to be with somebody who's like me? Like that'd be horrible. Like to be with somebody who's like me like that'd be horrible

like to be the exact same version of me it would be a battle it would be hard to do that like and we don't love the we love but we don't pay attention and love at a deep level the nuances of what makes somebody so different they can be quote-unquote annoying if we make them annoying yeah so what was what was the realization or some of the realizations you had during that, that allowed you to kind of release it and, you know, move on? This piece wasn't included in the documentary, but I talked about it in my podcast with Eric. And there was one moment in one vision where everything was symbolized and like I had a clear understanding of what I was doing. And it was very difficult for me to connect with Whitney in the vision space. You know, I have

a lot of time and I'm actually quite adept at being able to call people into my field of awareness in the medicine space. You know, I've been on the medicine path for 22 years, plant medicines. But for whatever reason, I couldn't really access her, even though I was going through a lot of stuff emotionally, healing a lot of things that existed, thinking about a lot of things. But finally, she comes to me in this crystal clear vision. And she's wearing this crown of eagle feathers feathers not like a not like a first nation's headdress or anything like that but it was just like this beautiful laurel of of eagle feathers

and like dressed in full like goddess garb and she looks at me and then she looks down at herself and says am i doing it, am I doing it right? Am I doing it right? And it was devastating, man, because I realized that I'd always wanted her to cultivate this spiritual potential that I'd seen in her. And I loved the version of her that did cultivate that. But in loving that version, I was judging the version that was not that and saying, I'll love you when, I'll love you when. And so always, you know, throughout the relationship, there was some part of her that was looking at me and going, am I doing it right?

And that's like, that was so sad. It was so sad. And it's still sad. of her magic and everything that you know which i did love and i did appreciate her there was some part of me that was waiting for her to be something else that i wanted her to be and maybe it's a true vision of what she could be one potential reality if she decided to go that way but who cares it's my opportunity that i only had you know a few months to to try and to try and take was to just love her exactly as she is not not what she could be not what her potential was but love her exactly as she is and tell her you're always doing it right sweetheart, you're always doing it right, sweetheart. You're always doing it right. You can't do it wrong. And that applies not only to her, but to myself.

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Uncommongoods.com slash dial for your discount on amazing gifts. So I was going to ask, was there a reflection of not fully loving her for her full potential? Did you realize like, shit, I'm not loving myself because I'm not at this point yet? Because I feel like there's a lot of people like, I'll love myself when, I'll love that person when. Do you feel like there's a reflection of yourself in that? I'm still in that reflection. These things are deep. They're deep. And yes, there was that, there was that reflection, but you know, I'm not, I'm still not able to fully do that. And it's like, I'm afraid to let go of the whip.

Right? Like, I don't trust that the horse is going to run without the whip. And so the whip is, well, I'm not going to give you full self-love. You'll just fucking stop. You know, I don't trust you, horse. Like, remember this whip? You fucking keep running. You running running and if you run good enough i might you know give you a pat it's not true it doesn't work because then you just live in this

constant state of anxiety afraid of your own whip which really is the removal of self-love that's the way that we have to punish ourselves is to deny ourself love, which stings. It stings like a whip, but worse because it's not just like one quick blow and it's over. It'd be better if we had an actual whip. That would be far better than the denial of self-love. Just be like one of those medieval flagellists that just carried a flail and just whacked themselves in the back and got over it. But we don't do that. We deny ourselves self-love. And it's a deep mistrust of self. I'm still going to run. I'm going to run because I love the world. And the more love I have, the more I'm going to love the world, the more I'm going to want to help other people, the more I'm going to see that homeless person, that person who's afraid, that person who I know that my ideas or my stories or something

can help. And I'm going to want to run for them. Not because I'm running because I'm afraid that I'm going to deny myself love. Like that doesn't work. It's like a shitty coach that tries to motivate you through endless suicides that you got to run on the court rather than inspiring you to love the game and love your team and play for the joy of it all. And I'm still in the process of trusting myself,

like really trusting myself if I give myself radical, radical self-love. So it's still an unfolding process. Yeah. Yeah. You bring up a really good point that, because one of the things I have a lot of people reach out to me, because I'm kind of like a gateway for, I feel like my stuff is kind of a gateway to getting into personal development a lot of times and going deeper into it. And a lot of people reach out to me and they're like, how can I make my husband or how can I make my wife start doing X, Y, Z? Like I'm so, I listen to podcasts, I go to me and they're like, how can I make my husband or how can I make my wife start doing X, Y, Z?

Like I'm so, I listen to podcasts, I go to conferences and read books and they're just not doing it. How can I make them start doing it? And it's this sense of like, I want to change them. And then once they start getting onto my same level, then I'll finally love them at the full capacity. And it really is the most tragic thing that you could do is be in a relationship with someone

and hold back love because they're not at some point yet. And it sounds like that's kind of the realization you came with with Whitney was it was like, did you love her to your full capacity at that point and what you were aware of? Sure. But was there a level of like full acceptance that you could finally get to of like, you can't do it wrong. Yeah. Everything that you do is perfect in my eyes.

Right. And then when we do it with ourselves, it makes it even harder to think, I'm going to lose my motivation when I stop having something that's wrong. It's the really, it's the backwards mentality because if I was really going to have supported Whitney, you know, and I see this in my relationship with Vailana.

Like Vailana, I learned the lesson. The lesson is love her no matter what. Never threaten to pull away the love. Know that there is constant and steady and ever-present unconditional love no matter what. And that has allowed her to go through rapid like massive expansion growth and healing and that's the that's the substrate upon which real growth can happen for sure like this is the foundation but the other thing that you think is helpful is not fucking helpful

it's actually antagonizing the ability for them to grow because there's going to be judgment and shame and then the shame is going to cause them to pull away from things so you know and that's it's a it's something i you only know what you know so i'm not going to judge myself about what i didn't know back when i didn't know it and wasn't able to do it you I did the best I could myself as well. But I understand now that if I was going to go back and do this whole thing over again, the way to do it is to just love the whole way and trust that that will provide the growth for yourself, for your partner, for anybody.

Just really, really love them and trust that they're going to want what is in their highest, but that love is going to give them the safety to be more bold. It's like a catch-22. That's what's so crazy about it, right? Where it's like, if we're just using it for ourselves, where it's like, oh man, if I fully love and accept myself, I have no reason to do anything. That's what everyone thinks. Like, if I love myself, then I don't, what am I going to do? Just sit around and be in peaceful bliss?

Like, I won't create the business that I want. I won't do everything that is that I want. But it's the, when you take a step back and you look at it instead of being in your own head, you can kind of see of like, well, the strongest foundation that I can give myself is the self-love because then it allows me to go out and be more bold and make the mistakes that might come up. But if you're

also the same way with someone in your relationship with, it's like, I can finally give them maybe something that they've never been given. Because for a lot of parents and, and, you know, you were saying your mom was, was a beacon of unconditional love, which is a lot of times very rare. Your dad on the other side was kind of the, the like, Hey, you'll get it when sometimes I think a lot of people accidentally raise their parents, raise their children in that way, where it's like, Hey, when you achieve, or when you do what I want you to do, or when you go to college for what I think that you should go to college for, then I'll fully love you. And it's almost like we're holding people back from what they fully could be because we want them to be what we want them to be. You want your children to be what you want them to be. You want your person to your relationship

with to be who you want them to be. And if I give you the full amount of love that I possibly could, you're not going to grow up exactly how I want you to be. And I think it's this crazy catch-22 where it's easy to understand, but it's so fucking hard to implement. Yeah. The thing, the point that you raised there, which is really the crux of it, is to reach our potential, we're going to have to dare greatly and we're going to have to expose ourselves to absolute fall on your face failure. And so this is the thing that prevents people from really going for it. What is it that prevents the singer from singing the writer from writing the CEO from

creating the business, leaving the company. It's the fear of failure. This is the thing we're always afraid of. Because why are we afraid of failure? Well, because of the whip, the judgment that's going to come. And it's really about ourself. Even if it's reflected back from the world, which typically it never is to the extent that we reflect it upon ourself, right? But we're afraid to dare greatly because we're afraid to fail. But what if you love yourself no matter what? Then you're not afraid to dare greatly.

You're not afraid to reach and fall and fall on your face because you'll wipe off the mud and the blood and be like, eh, all right, let's do it again. I fucking love myself. Let's go. Like, I'm not going to stay stuck in this thing where this is this terrible event so what i failed great on to the next thing you know take the lessons learn and move forward this is this is what we really need to be bold enough to be legendary to be really epic you, is to have this absolute courage to just

go into all of these different challenging arenas, put ourself out there and know that it's okay if we fail, that there's a cushion on the landing. It's not going to be jagged rocks and broken glass of judgment. It's going to be, you know, it's going to be one of those circus nets of self-love. So do the triple backflip, try to catch the trapeze with the back of your legs, you know, fucking go for it. You know, you got a net. You're not going to splatter on the rocks of your judgment. You got a net of self-love and that's, that's what's going to allow like real greatness to emerge. For sure. So the fear of love was a big part that you got from that. Was there any other real big takeaways when you're going through it that popped up for you? Well, anytime you deny yourself something, you appreciate the thing that's been denied.

So any of us who have done a fast, like have you done like a good- It's like anything decent fast. Oh my God. You go three days, any piece of food. You can eat a piece of lettuce. Like, have you done like a good- It's like anything tastes good. Oh my God. You go three days, any piece of food. You can eat a piece of lettuce. You eat a cashew and you're like, fucking cashew. What a gift from the heavens is this? It's, what is it?

A nut? Is it a seed? Or is it the great elixir of life itself? Like you taste the sweetness in this umami nuttiness of this cashew, where normally i'll grab a whole fucking can full smash them in my mouth and be like whatever move on without a thought but i'll you'll savor every cashew and it's the same when you deny yourself sight and connection to other people and sounds like obviously the there's that really potent moment in the documentary where for the first time in

six and a half days i see the light and it was overwhelming the beauty of sight yeah it was like full-on weeping oh my god i can never i can i've never ugly cried like that before in my life and it was obviously if we ran the whole clip it would have been 20 minutes of the documentary. So it's just a section of this feeling as I looked out over at the sunset. I'm in a beautiful location in Sachsenwald in Germany. And it was beautiful, but that wasn't it. I could have probably been looking at anything.

I could have been looking at this bookshelf that I'm looking at now. I'm like, wow. Colors. Colors. Colors and books. And then the first time I listened to music again, after being in silence, I was like, oh my God, this music is good. And then I talked to people and I was like, people, holy shit.

And then I thought back to myself of, you know, you go to the airport and your plane's delayed you're like oh my god yeah fucking flight delay and i was like look at me being a little whiny baby the airport is a circus it's a circus of pleasure and delight there's food available i have my phone i can call any of my friends. I can listen to music. I can read books. I can walk around and find a window somewhere and gaze out at, well, maybe it's not that pretty at the airport. Whatever.

It doesn't matter. There's so much available. And so it really recalibrated appreciation and just gratitude for what is always in front of our eyes. But with that came the grief that I've had this my whole life and taken it for granted. Oh, man. You know, 39 years taking shit for granted.

And this is a lesson that it's one of the reasons why I'm deeply called to go back into the darkness because it's a lesson that you can't just learn once. You can't do one fast and then appreciate food the rest of your life like that it's something you have to like remind yourself of and for that reminder alone it's worth going in the darkness it's worth denying yourself everything so you have the appreciation for all all that is it's like someone you know who gets really sick for a while how much much they appreciate being healthy, which is something we typically take for granted. Or you get injured, you hurt your leg and you can't run and you can't

train and you can't play ball and you can't do that. Then you really appreciate it because it's been denied you. That in and of itself, if the darkness was nothing but that, it would be worth it. But of course, it's so much more. It's like the phrase, a healthy man wants a million things. A sick man wants one thing. It's like we have this amazing life and game and reality that we're sitting in, but it's like we can't fully appreciate all the time because we're worried about stuff that doesn't matter as much. Did you get a new...

I don't know the answer to it, but I want to hear just the way you talk about, do you get a new appreciation for people who don't have sights or people who don't have hearing and just these five senses that you do get that all of them work amazingly and some people just don't have it, but some people have it and then they lose it. And so did you get this deep appreciation for people who are in those situations? For sure. I actually thought that I would turn into like, uh, I think the superheroes daredevil, you know, where he doesn't have sight, but he can use like clicking and kind of sonic awareness and other senses will become extra sharp.

And I would be able to find my way around my room by like intuitive sense of things. And I, no, that shit didn't happen for me you know i was still banging into walls banging into stuff i smashed my head again on a on a chair one time i was like oh my god what is going on but um yeah i mean it's a gift if we have our senses and if if one is if one is denied you know i think you can still have appreciation for everything else that you have. I mean, Helen Keller is a great example of someone who has denied both sound and sight. And you listen to her or read her communication, and you feel the gratitude that she had for what she did have. And so any one of our senses alone can expand.

It can also be a portal of infinite joy. So while there was the appreciation for all five, there was also the understanding that there's something available to us always that is so beautiful. If we just have touch or if we just have sight or if we just have sound, there's ways that you can even go deeper in that. So it wasn't like an entire feeling of, oh, poor them. It was like, well, I'm very, very, very blessed. Let me enjoy everything that I have. But also an understanding that, all right, if one of these things got removed, each one of these senses is so absolutely incredible. Because even just, I mean, I've talked about a lot of the hard moments. There were so many beautiful moments where it was just me dancing in the void, in the mystery.

And it was just pure consciousness. And that was beautiful too no senses just my consciousness and this is something you can experience on you know a lot of the medicine journeys is yourself as consciousness and that is something that is unborn and undying so even that is enough and beautiful you know there's always there's always this richness that's available. But while we have this full spectrum, man, what a blessing it is to be alive. Yeah. So easy to take for granted. Yeah.

So when you're in, you said the first three days, and you went into three days of pretty much visionary state. Yeah. And so first off, did you know that was going to happen? Does it happen often with people? Because I feel like most people from the very beginning when I said this, are scared just to go in the dark by themselves. Right.

But then to find out that there could be a chance of having a nonstop mini ayahuasca ceremony to full-blown ayahuasca ceremony where it's just visions and nonstop and things that were coming to you. What was that whole situation like? What was going through it like in those three days? I'd heard that this is what happens, but I was skeptical. I'm skeptical of everything I haven't experienced. I'm an experiential learner. I would never talk about God if I hadn't felt God and known God. I'd be like, what are you talking about? I would never talk about consciousness if I haven't felt myself as consciousness. I would never talk about visions

until I've had visions. It's just, I'm not going to take anybody's word for it. And I think really that's with most of us, it's a show not tell game. You know, you can't convince somebody of some of these things. So I heard that this is what happens, but I was like, how is this going to happen? And did these people, do these people really know what visions are because i know what visions are and this is probably some you know imagination but then yeah day three there's this this like constant pulsing flashing light and there would be these like polyps like stalag slag tights and stalagmites that would be growing from the ground and falling from the ceiling. And that's how it started. And I was like, oh shit, like some real things are happening here. And then that burst into this constant kind of fractal experience where I'm seeing these

floating orbs and all of their fractal magnificence and all of these things appearing above, below, all in every direction around me. And it's a situation where in the vision state, it doesn't matter if you turn your head from one spot to the other. It doesn't change your vision. That's the thing about a vision. It's not like you're seeing something based in location. Your location doesn't exist. The vision exists.

If I do a full 360, the vision is still in the same orientation of my visual cerebral field it's very interesting how that happens and uh i realized like all right this is the real deal like i'm really in an endogenous dmt trip right now and you know i'm familiar with that space but it doesn't mean that it's all good i mean i remember there was one particular was going through some hard emotional stuff some like some real purging of some pain and and with that the visions got dark i mean dark i remember one of the really dark visions was it was like a wheat thresher and but instead of threshing wheat it was threshing human bodies like living beings that were being crushed children adults women men being crushed under this wheat thresher and the blood and the

and the bodies and the arms and it was fucking horrifying but i know enough from being in these dark visions that the more you look away the the longer they persist. So I was just looking and skulls and dark imagery and rotting and maggots and everything that you could imagine that was dark and scary. And I just had to be there with it and accept and be in acceptance and find acceptance in all of that. And it lasted, this dark visionary space lasted like four or five hours and i would resist it and like try to do some push-ups sometimes i was like come on like give me a little break maybe i can change something i'd do some wim hof breathing and trying but it was just this is what i needed to do and finally it was just this radical acceptance of like all right

i'll look at this for as long as needed. And in some ways I'll find that there is beauty in this too. You know, there's beauty in the darkness, there's beauty in the pain, there's beauty in the horror of all of it. And I remember, you know, there was a moment where I really, really deeply accepted the darkness of these visions. And then I saw this little rainbow start to come through. And I was like, all right. And it was just kind of this beautiful little sign. And then from there, it was flowers and trees and beautiful landscapes and crystalline palaces. And it was gorgeous.

And I got the other side of like, wow, this is fucking unbelievably beautiful. And so this is another layer of the journey. Now, I have talked to some people who have gone through the darkness in a different facility and they experienced what was called a light accident where accidentally because there's a double door system where they're serving food and in this in the case of uh my friend micah

who was in this he'd opened his interior door and so when they came to bring him food from the exterior door light poured in through his into the into the space and it was enough that it actually suppressed his vision state because you have to be submerged in the darkness to really to really make it happen so um it is possible that if you have a light accident you know in the facility that you won't get the vision state it's a very kind of tenuous thing. Whatever is happening with the endogenous idea, like you have to be denied all access to light on all of your photoreceptors.

And people say like, well, why don't blind people experience this same phenomenon? Well, we have photoreceptors in our eyes, whether we see it or not. We have them in our inner not. We have them in our inner ears. We have them in our skin. We're receiving light into our body with a lot more things in our eyes. And so we still have a natural circadian rhythm. We still have times where we release melatonin and times where we abide by the circadian rhythm of the sun, but this is denying that entirely.

And that's part of the trigger that creates it. So in this situation too, so what happened was you actually flew out to Germany for this, because we were just talking about before it started, there's no real place in the US to do something like this until you build it. Yeah, exactly.

It's underway. It's underway, which is awesome. But I also kind of hate you for it because I'm going to have to show up. That's part of the problem as well. I'm going to have to go to wherever this black place is. Yes, indeed, brother. Yes, indeed. The whole situation is you're basically taken care of when you're saying that the door's opening up. So they'll come and they'll bring you breakfast. They'll bring you lunch. They'll bring you dinner. So at least they're fully taken care of to be able to go through this.

It's not a six or seven day fast that happens at the same time, which I'm sure some people could do and probably have done before. But you have people that are fully taking care of you and bringing you the food while you're there and you're inside of a house where if something happens, someone's there.

There was a there was a um alarm button that was basically kind of like a walkie-talkie alarm button system wasn't a walkie i couldn't talk into it but if for whatever reason like i hurt myself or i needed some support i knew where this button was i memorized where it was they helped me practice memorizing where this was so i could hit a button and the button would sound off an alarm in the house where people were staying 24 7 and they would come to my room um did i ever press the button i did press the button one time so one time i had this really powerful vision. I had to wrestle with this idea of like, I think maybe I've done enough. I think I got what I came here for.

And it was day four, end of day four. And I just had a really powerful vision of my father. And I was like, this is what I came here for. This is what I, okay, I can leave now. I press the button and I can hear in the house, like this little alarm bell going off. I press the button and I can hear in the house, like this little alarm bell going off. And then the retreat director comes and comes into my room and is like, hello, Aubrey, you know, how are you doing? What's going on? And I was like, well, you know,

I had a really powerful vision. It's been very challenging, but I think I'm done. And she says, ah, yes. Well, I hear you and I understand you. How about you just give it a little bit longer? I was like, no, I think I'm done. She's like, well, maybe just give it another day. And I was like, okay, okay. And I did. And that's next day, like so much more came up. I was like, oh man, I'm not done. You know, there's still much more. So yeah, there is like, and I, you know, I used it. I used the panic button one time and it was nice. It was really helpful.

It helped me to like, she was very skilled and wise and knew that this is a common occurrence where there's gonna be a point where somebody's like, okay, did it. Yeah. Good job. Like I'm ready. I'm done with this.

But there's so much magic. So much of the magic occurred after that point. So I'm really grateful that she did that. So there was a button in there. And then there was also, you know, the way that the food was dropped, the food was dropped into a blacked out hallway right outside my room. And they would ring a little tiny bell when the food would come. So Ied out hallway right outside my room and they would ring

a little tiny bell when the food would come so i would know that there was food there and then i'd stumble my way into the hallway feel around for the food i mean i put my i put my hand into my food so many times i can't even count like trying to figure out where my plate was i'd bring the plate into my room i would eat the food and then I would bring the plate back out to the hallway when I was done. So yeah, I was definitely well taken care of and felt like in case things get too psychologically difficult or physically difficult, there's a way that I'll be safe. Yeah. Yeah. That was one thing I was going to ask you as far as the ego coming in and being like, Hey man, you've got what you need because I've, I've, you know, I've, I've gone to a place where we've done ayahuasca for four days in a row. And you have the people that, you know,

breakfast on day three after the second day, they're like, yeah, I had this amazing experience. And it told me that I'm done here. I've heard it multiple times. It was like, it told me that I'm done here. And I had a few people that happened to, it happened to my mom actually, when we went and did ayahuasca together. And she's like, God came in and told me that I've gone through enough and I'm here. And I'm like, okay, well, I'm not going to tell you to stay.

I know you should stay. I see what's going on here. I was like, maybe talk with one of the shamans, just see what you're thinking. It's actually this kind of same thing. Why don't you show up tonight and we'll just give you a little bit. Like you won't have to take the full cup.

Yeah. Just a little bit. But it's this ego where it's almost like, I remember I talked with our friend Jesse Elder one time and I was like, man, you ever feel like you're bipolar? Like there's like, not bipolar in like the clinical sense, but like there's a side of me that wants this growth and wants to be doing something so amazing and keep pushing myself. But there's also this side of me that's like, you're done. You don't need to keep pushing. It's like these two

sides. And he's like, it's like bipolar, man. I feel like I'm octopolar sometimes. Like there's eight people living inside of me. So you had, you had multiple times or at least one time where there was a piece of you that was like, Aubrey, bro, you've got it. You don't need to keep going. You can just give up right now. I had to wrestle with that a lot, actually. And yeah, it's the part of you that you encounter when you're looking at a cold plunge too. You look at that cold plunge and you're like, yeah, I've done this a lot.

Maybe I don't need to today. And it's this part of you that's seeking that comfort you know and then the part of you that's like no go do this this is important honor your words stick it stick it out to the end like and you have to wrestle those parts but it comes in every it comes in every way you know it comes in the conversations that are going to be difficult that you know you need to have and you wrestle with yourself. Should I do it? Should I not do it? Oh, man, this is going to be an intense conversation.

And the person, you know, in our, as entrepreneurs and CEOs, like, oh, man, I really need to have that termination conversation. You're like, oh, I'll do it next week. Yeah. This way in which you want to put something off because it's uncomfortable. I'll do it next week or this way in which you want to put something off because it's uncomfortable. And when you're putting yourself intentionally in this discomfort, at least for me, that voice came up quite a bit. And I managed to wrestle it down myself for most of the time. But then there was that one moment where I needed that steady hand of somebody who had a lot of experience and who's seen a thousand people go through the same thing and come to the same conclusion and without judgment be like i hear you i hear what you're

saying and and also not try to gaslight my experience and say like maybe maybe you're right like maybe you are done and that's definitely possible but why don't you stick it out a little bit longer and just see yeah you know and and that's the that's exactly possible, but why don't you stick it out a little bit longer and just see? And that's exactly the right attitude to have. Just like you with your mother, you can't be like, nope, seen it before. You got to show up. No, you got to be like, yeah, maybe. And if so, great.

But why don't you just talk to somebody and just see? And I think that's really helpful to have that kind of guidance, have that mentorship coach shaman who can be like, yeah, I hear you. But just maybe, maybe give it another, give it another go. Yeah. So the documentary is called Awaken the Darkness. Yeah. And for anybody out there who wants to watch it, which I, it's, it's cool. I fully, fully recommend every single person watches it.

And it's interesting because it's this visual, to kind of give context before we finish it up, is there's hours of your recording. So you took an actual recorder in there with you that you had blacked out the record button so that you couldn't even see the red light. In your recording, you can hear you going through this stuff. And you can hear these emotions, these ups and these ups and these downs and these downs. And you can hear you going through this stuff. And you can hear these emotions, these ups and these ups

and these downs and these downs. And you can hear everything, but there's this cool visual experience of being in the dark, but also them getting all of these visuals that they possibly can to kind of give an idea of what it is that you're going through, which is unlike anything I've ever seen, because everything is usually a lot of people talking directly to Cameron. There is that in the beginning,

but there's this journey that you get to go on kind of with you. Yeah, you're with me, real time. It's a journey of like, we're going through this together. I'm kind of getting more of an idea of what Aubrey's going through while he's going through it and being able to hear it, but also see a little bit of what you're seeing as well.

So for people who want to watch it, how do they access it? Yeah, it's right on aubreymarcus.com. So check people who want to watch it, how do they access it? Yeah, it's right on aubreymarcus.com. So check it out. Totally free. Throw in your email, you'll get access to watch the documentary. And I think that is one of the unique pieces of it is there's, I think, you know, I've done a couple of documentaries before, one called Huachuma, one called Ayahuasca, where it's showing the Ayahuasca ceremony but you get to see it but you're not there with me i'm not like talking live as it's happening you know where in this case i was literally talking live and because there's no external substance it's not like i'm

talking like i'm you know intoxicated in any way or or um what do they call it they call it like seasick when you're on ayahuasca where everything's like, oh, whoa, and things are all swirly and wonky and you think you're making sense, but you're really not. No, I was absolutely clear-headed. But I'm just going through these deep emotional processes and it's really the raw, real aspect of it.

And I think that's what makes it so powerful is that it's there. You're with me. And the truth of it is just emerging in real time rather than me talking about what happened. You're in the journey. So it's like going into ceremony with me. And I think that's the beautiful part.

But yeah, it's available on aubreymarcus.com. And for anybody who wants to listen to Aubrey Marcus on his podcast, it's the Aub part. But yeah, it's available on aubreymarcus.com. And for anybody who wants to listen to Aubrey Marcus on his podcast, it's the Aubrey Marcus podcast. It was cool that they just got done with all of the wrapped on Spotify, where you could see your most listened to. Cause I kept getting, I got like hundreds and hundreds of tags.

And I was like, oh shit, there's, oh. And it was like my friends, I was like, oh, there's Jay's podcast. Oh, there's Lewis's podcast. Oh, there's Aubrey. Aubrey's on this one. And look, me and Aubrey and Jay and all, and Andrew Huberman are all on this one.

It was cool to see. So it's cool to see the blending of both of our audiences to be able to listen to your podcast as well. And I want to leave it with a quote, which I think is amazing because for the people who are out there, when we circle back to the very first question of why would you do this?

One of the quotes that you say is people have a choice. They can wait for the world to bring the darkness or they can bring the darkness to them. Either way, it's gonna happen though. So Aubrey, thanks for this, man. I appreciate it for everyone who wants to go and watch the documentary. Once again, it's aubreymarcus.com.

You can watch it there for free. And then if you wanna listen to his podcast, the Aubrey Marcus podcast, appreciate you, man. Appreciate you too, brother. Thank you for being an amazing host and an amazing friend for sure man