The Mindset Mentor - The Psychology of Ambitious People

Episode Date: September 28, 2026

What if your ambition is being fueled by pain instead of purpose? In this episode, I break down the psychology of ambitious people and share five ways to turn your drive into clean ambition that helps you build a life you actually love. I’ll show you how to stop running from your past, start running toward your purpose, and learn how to actually arrive when you reach your goals. Freedom Live is a 3-day live experience in Austin designed to help you break through what’s keeping you from your next level. Get $100 off your ticket: https://robdial.short.gy/freedomlive The Mindset Mentor™ podcast is designed for anyone desiring motivation, direction, and focus in life. Past guests of The Mindset Mentor include Tony Robbins, Matthew McConaughey, Jay Shetty, Andrew Huberman, Lewis Howes, Gregg Braden, Rich Roll, and Dr. Steven Gundry. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to today's episode of the Mindset Mentor Podcast. I'm your host Rob Dial. If you have not you done so, hit that subscribe button so you never miss another episode. Today, I'm going to be talking about the psychology of people with massive ambition and why so many of the most driven people on earth started at rock bottom. I'm also going to talk about why some of that drive is actually secretly running from something. And then I just want to talk about the inner workings of ambition. and I'm going to teach you the five different ways that you can make sure that your ambition builds you a life that you love and enjoy. So here's what we're going to cover today. We're going to talk about the benefits of ambition, but I'm also going to be fully transparent

with you. I want to talk about the downsides of ambition and how you can actually set yourself up to avoid that if you want to be an ambitious person. So let's get into it. So back in the 1970s, there was a psychologist named Marvin Eisenstadt and he studied hundreds of the most important people in history. Scientists and writers and leaders, so, you know, like people with the longest entries in the encyclopedia. And he found something that really nobody expected. About a quarter of them lost a parent before the age of 10 and nearly half of them lost a parent by the age of 20. Now, that's pretty interesting. Think about that for a second. The people who shaped history were way more likely to have had their world fall apart as a kid.

And I'm not saying that you have to have some sort of tragedy to be great. What I'm saying is when you've been at rock bottom, you know exactly what that feels like, and you want to get the hell out as soon as possible. And you've looked up from rock bottom, and you've seen what your life could be like, and you've seen what other people's lives are like and how great it can be.

And you're like, man, I want to get there. And you will work your ass off to get off of rock bottom. And, you know, like when you grow up and your floor is rock bottom, you're probably willing to work harder and run a lot farther than the average person. And the pain that you experienced creates drive. And so many people are afraid of pain, but to be fully transparent with you, pain can be a great driver. Like it could be a great motivator.

In fact, if I'm being fully transparent, I think the pain is actually the greatest motivator that we can have as humans. So pain is a big piece of what we're going to talk about. But besides just pain, ambitious people also truthfully want to see what they're fully capable of. Like, they want to find their edge.

They probably grew up with a chip on their shoulder. Maybe that's from their parents. Maybe that's from childhood. Maybe that's from bullies. Maybe that's from not being picked to play kickball. But truthfully, They want to see where they can get. They are kind of terrified to get to the end of their life and realize that they wasted it.

I remember my early 20s, I heard a quote, and I used to tell myself this quote like 50 times a day. And the quote is, the only thing harder than the pain of hard work is the pain of regret. And I used to use that to drive me. Like, hey, Rob, I know it's hard now. I know that it's challenging now. But you got to get your ass up. And you've got to do something because I am positive. If you don't get your ass up now, it's going to be way more painful later on in life.

And so that's a fuel that you can use to be more ambitious. But the thing that I've come to realize is that some of ambition is running towards something, which is very important. We're going to talk about that. And some of ambition is running from something. I'll give you my personal story just so you can hear it. I remember the day before my father's funeral, I was 15 years old, and he was the first person that I ever knew that passed away.

And I remember sitting in this tiny little room. And I remember sitting in, it was like, I mean, I'm talking like tiny. Like I could put my hand out and I could touch him, right? And I was sitting on this couch and I thought to myself, like, this was an incredible man. He was so smart. And he had so many goals, but he did not work for them. And so I realized I could get to the end of my life and achieve nothing. Or I could get to the end of my life and look back and realize I worked my ass off.

And I created everything that I could for my life. my family. And I grew up with not much money, very little money, and it was really painful. And I remember going through those things. And I never wanted to put my family through that. And so what I came up with from that day was I was running from something, right, from the painful childhood and all the stuff and not living up to my potential. But I was also like, I need to run towards something. I need to find a purpose. I need to find something that makes me excited to get up and move every single day. I needed to move towards something in my life. And there's an interesting study that this psychologist named Mark Elliott's, you know, he studies a difference between something that's called

avoidance goals and approach goals, right? An approach goal is moving towards something that you want. And an avoidance goal is getting away from something that you fear. Now, this is really important. We're talking about ambition here. In his research, people that were pursuing the avoidance goals, like moving away from something, running away from a fear, we're actually less happy and felt less content in their lives. And the reason why that happens is because when you're running towards something, you're running toward a purpose, that has a finish line. When you're running away from something, there's no finish line.

So how do you know when you've ever quote unquote made it? Like how far away from broke is far enough? Is it a million dollars? Is it $10 million? is it $4 billion? You know, how far away from being the kid that nobody believed in is far enough? Like, there's no real answer. So your brain just keeps going.

Oh, man, like, I realized when I first heard that, like, that one messed me up the first time I really thought about it, is that a lot of my ambition when I was younger was running from something. And that will only keep you going long enough. You've got to figure out what you're running towards. Because otherwise, you're like, in Buddhism where they talk about, the idea of hungry ghosts. Like a hungry ghost, if it goes to eat, it would just go straight through its stomach and fall on the floor. So hungry ghosts just eat and eat and eat and they can never

get full. And I think that describes a lot of ambitious people too. They're just trying to fill a hole inside of their soul with an achievement and that achievement will never actually fill that hole. Right. And so the real question is when you're looking at the psychology behind ambitious people, you have something that you're running towards. You have something that you're running away from most of the time. And so the real question is, how do you keep the drive without being a hungry ghost? And we will be right back. And now, back to the show.

Because it's important to know when you've quote unquote made it. Because success or quote unquote made it is different for every single person. But most people don't sit down and actually write down exactly what is that they want, what they're working towards, and how they know that they're working towards. and how they know that they've made it. And what, like, making it actually looks like. And being driven to a purpose, to a place is as powerful as running away from a pain. But the good thing about it is that you know when you get there so that you don't have to work forever

and you don't feel like you're never enough the entire time that you're trying to get there. And so let me give you a couple tips to actually help you with your ambition to make sure you get good fuel, like good ambition and not just like the dirty fuel that's just straight up running away from pain, which FYI can be powerful, but it can also cause you to burn out. Okay. So number one, run what's called the finish line test. Take your biggest goal and ask yourself the question, what does done look like? Not more, not never going back, not being broke. This is super important. What does done look like? I know a lot of very successful people who don't know how to stop and they're not happy because they're being driven from a place of pain, not a place of purpose.

But on the opposite side of that, because I don't want to just scare you guys to not be ambitious because I want you to be ambitious and I want you create an amazing life. I also know some very successful people who have learned when to turn it on and when to turn it off and they have amazing lives. There's a big difference between those people and it all comes down to why they're doing it, what they're doing it for, and where they're trying to get to. And so the question is, what does fulfillment of your goal look like? If you can't answer that, there's a good chance you're running from something. So flip it. You know, I'm running away from my past. I'm running

away from my childhood. All of that becomes, you know, I want to make X amount of dollars or be worth X amount of money so that I can lighten my workload by 50% and spend all of that time with my family. I mean the difference is, oh, I'm running away from my past and in my childhood and being broke. Oh my God, that's a dirty fuel. It will drive you for a little while, but she'll burn out. But if you say, I want to be with X amount of dollars so that I can spend 50% of my time that I would normally be working, I'm going to cut it. I'm going to spend that 50% of my time now with my family. And then I'm going to take two, two week trips per quarter with my family and focus on just them. You see the difference versus running from a childhood versus the life and purpose that I'm working towards.

You see the difference between it? One is a fear that you'll never fully escape, and the other is a place that you can actually arrive at. But both require the same amount of work to get there. So there's just a completely different feeling while you do it, right? The actual, the feeling that you feel as you're working towards a goal. And it's also a way different feeling when you arrive. Okay. Number two, separate the fuel, which I keep talking about fuel, from the steering wheel. Okay. I'm not telling you to not run away from your past. I'm not telling you to get rid of your past. Your past might be the best fuel you've got. Definitely use it, but the fuel and the steering wheel are two different things.

Pain is incredible at getting you moving. I would say the most ambitious people in the world have gone through some of the most pain in the world as well. So it's great at getting you moving, but it is terrible at choosing where you go. Because pain doesn't care where you go, as long as it's away. right as long as it's away from where it's coming from and that's how people end up building businesses that they hate and it becomes a personal prison and now they're stuck in that personal prison it's because they did it for money they did it to run away from something they did it for the wrong reasons and now they're busy stuck in a business and they're unfulfilled so before you have any big decision you just sit back and you ask yourself am i choosing this because i actually want it like

am I running towards this for a purpose or am I scared of my life if I don't do it? If it's the second one, that's the old pain grabbing the steering wheel. The purpose is one needs to take it back. So the fuel can be the pain, but the purpose needs to actually be the steering wheel. Purpose answers the question, what am I doing this for? Not what am I running away from? So that's number two. So number three is find out if your worth is on the line.

So there's a psychologist named Robert Valerand and he studies passion. And what he found is that there's two different types of passion. Okay. Number one is there's harmonious passion, which is when you do the thing because you love it. And you can still put it down. Like you don't have to be obsessed with it. You can love it. And then you can go do something else.

And then there's obsessive passion, which is when your self-worth is tied to what you're doing. And you can't stop. and you feel guilty when you rest. And it bleeds into your relationships, and it bleeds into your health, and bleeds into everything. This is like, and I've been this guy, I promise you, and I see these guys all the time anytime I go on vacation, right? This is the guy on his laptop at the pool in Mexico

when his family's having a great time and he can't even disconnect from his business, right? No shame. Like, I've been there before I get it. But when you look at this, you're looking at someone with obsessive passion. Like, if I walk away from this, what if everything falls apart?

and his research ties obsessive passion to more burnout and more conflict in the rest of your life. Like both people work hard. People with obsessive passion and people with harmonious passion, they both work really hard, but only one of them is okay when they're not working. Oh, I know what that feels like, right? Like I understand being stuck and not being able to remove myself from the business because I had so much self-worth tied to the business. right let me say that again only one of them is okay when they're not working so here's the test

you ready take a day completely off a full day like work day no email no quick check no sending text messages and watch what shows up if it's rest beautiful if it's guilt if it's anxiety if it's that it's that it's that says you're falling behind that's not ambition that's old pain popping up and being like, hey, are you still worth something if you're not producing? Like, what if all of this falls apart? You can't take a day off. And trust me, I have done a lot of work on myself around this. If your worth is on the line every single day, if your self-worth is tied to your business or your, you know, career, whatever it is, you will never be able to stop. So that's number three. Number four, chase the edge, not the escape. Okay. Remember when I said

and business people want to see what they're actually capable of, this is a really, really clean fuel. Like this is the cleanest fuel that there is. And where it gets really interesting, like I said, running from something has no finish line. That's torture. But chasing your edge also has no finish line. And that feels like freedom. Both same endless road, but totally different ride, right? So reframe the goal. Not like I have to hit this or I failed, which is what a lot of people do. That's how most people try to motivate themselves, which is like, oh, I'm a failure if I don't do this. That's really dirty fuel to get yourself motivated. But instead, you can say, like, I want to see who I become going after this.

It's not about the achievement of the goal. It's about building myself into the type of person that can achieve the goal, right, and bringing out your potential. That's clean fuel. So which one do you think out of those two you could sustain for 30 years? Yeah, probably the clean fuel, right? And the number five, I want you, and this is super, super important. practice arriving. Ambitious people are incredible at setting goals and terrible at arriving at those goals. Tal Ben Shahar calls us the arrival fallacy, the belief that once you get there,

wherever there is, you'll finally be happy. And then you get there and you don't feel any different because getting somewhere cannot change your internal state very long. That's why athletes can win a championship and then the next day be depressed because they thought all of their problems would be fix when they arrived at the goal and won the championship. And the next day, they wake up and they're the same damn person that they've always been with just a new trophy. Right. And so you have to train arriving like it's a skill. This is actually not as easy as you would think that it is. Train arriving to a goal like in sitting in it for a second. So like when you hit a goal, which we've all done this, the ambitious people do this. You hit a goal, you forget about it. You

immediately go on to the next one. No, no, no, here's the thing. When you hit a goal, stop. Do not set another goal for at least a week. Sit down and write out the answer to two questions. Number one, who did I have to become to get here? And you start actually looking at who you've had to become. You look in the rear of your mirror and you see how you've changed and how you've grown and how you've become better. Become proud of yourself. And then the question number two is, how am I proud of myself? and you actually start to look at what you had to do and how you had to change and all of the stuff that you had to overcome and the challenges in order to achieve the goal. Because the goal eventually fades, but who you became does not. And you need to think about that. And so you need to actually

arrive at a goal and sit there. You've already arrived at things that the version of you at the bottom would have cried over. Think about that for a second. Like you've achieved. You've achieved. things that you wanted 10 years ago. Do you ever stop long enough to actually notice it? And so here's what I really want you to understand, okay? There's two different things that I want you to kind of journal through and just kind of figure out about yourself. First one is, what am I running from? We're all usually running from something, and that's not bad, but we need to figure out what it is. And the second question is, what am I running toward? If you have an answer to only the first one, then that's where the work is. And so what you need to become clear on is what

you're running towards, what's your purposes, what your passion is, what's the point of your life? How do you know that you've made it? You need to run towards something so big and so exciting that you want to wake up every single day and move towards that thing, but you also know when you've made it, you can also celebrate when you've made it, and you can also turn it off the ambition so that you can enjoy your life with your family and just enjoy traveling and not have to constantly be working all of the time. So that's the psychology of ambition. the clean ambition, and also the dirty ambition. So now you know which one you want and how to bring both of them out of you more. So that's what I got for today's episode. If you love this episode,

share it on your Instagram stories, tag me in at Rob Dial Jr. And once again, and I'm going to leave you the same way I leave you every single episode. Make it's your mission to make somebody else's day better. I appreciate you and I hope that you have an amazing day.