The Mindset Mentor - The Science of Being #1 & Gifting w/ John Ruhlin

Episode Date: October 6, 2017

Episode 333 - John Ruhlin is the #1 sales rep in a $250 million a year marketing companies 65 year history. In this episode we dive in to what it takes to be #1 and what it takes to give gifts that people will always remember. Want to learn more about Mindset Mentor+? For nearly nine years, the Mindset Mentor Podcast has guided you through life's ups and downs. Now, you can dive even deeper with Mindset Mentor Plus. Turn every podcast lesson into real-world results with detailed worksheets, journaling prompts, and a supportive community of like-minded people. Enjoy monthly live Q&A sessions with me, and all this for less than a dollar a day. If you’re committed to real, lasting change, this is for you.Join here 👉 www.mindsetmentor.com My first book that I’ve ever written is now available. It’s called LEVEL UP and It’s a step-by-step guide to go from where you are now, to where you want to be as fast as possible.📚If you want to order yours today, you can just head over to robdial.com/bookHere are some useful links for you… If you want access to a multitude of life advice, self development tips, and exclusive content daily that will help you improve your life, then you can follow me around the web at these links here:Instagram TikTokFacebookYoutube

Hey, real quick, before we start today, are you struggling with achieving your goals or have you ever set a goal or New Year's resolution and then not achieved it? Well, I have a free ebook for you called Hack Your Goals, The Step-by-Step Guide to Achieving Success that you can download like thousands and thousands of people already have. Just go to mwfmotivation.com and download it there. Okay, I'll get you to the podcast right now. Welcome to the MWF Motivation Podcast, one of the top-rated motivational podcasts in the world. Every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, I come out with a short, to the point, no BS podcast designed to transform you from who you are today into who you want to be.

There's no fluff here, just life-changing content. My name is Rob Dial, and the podcast starts now. Welcome to today's episode. I'm excited to have John Rulon on. And so you guys know, I started as a Cutco rep in 2006 at 19 years old. And at that point in time, John Rulon was the biggest name in Cutco. And I think it's still the biggest name. Sold millions of dollars in knives, which is a crazy thing when you actually sit back and think about it. I always used to think it was crazy. I was a knife salesman. But this guy's been the best knife salesman in the history of all of knife salesmen and has sold millions of dollars over the years. And I'm excited to have him on because

we have so many ways that overlap, John, that it's just crazy that we've never actually spoken. And I was John Berghoff's... I think it was his first or second coaching client ever when I was 19 years old. Really? Yeah. I paid him 500 bucks a month to talk to him for 30 minutes. And I was more than I was paying for rent. And I didn't have any money. I was a Cutco rep at $10,000 in sales at that point in time. So basically nothing. But I was like, for some reason, I trust this guy. And it was the best thing I think I've ever done in my entire life was hiring John Berghoff, who's probably 25 at the time, to be my coach for two and a half years. And now he's like $5,000 for 30 minutes. So dude, you got a deal.

I got a steal at that point in time. And then I coached with Hal for a little while as well. Roman, we know each other through that. Are you one of the guys that's going to be moving to Austin as well? Because it seems like everybody's moving to Austin now that's in your group. Dude, it's so funny. Both those guys are in my – all three of those guys are in my inner circle. And we've talked about Austin. If we did move from St. Louis, which moving from family is

when you got three kids under five is a tough sell. But I would say if we do move, it would be in the top three cities to move to. It's so funny because I live here and then Hal moved here and then talked to Roman about a week ago and seems like he's going to be moving here. But yeah, so there's that connection. Also, I've only had six people on my podcast that i've interviewed you are the you are the last one out of all four of them which is crazy i haven't had a lot of people who are big names to try to leverage your network but i have had now you uh hal berghoff and roman on um because i know the knowledge that you guys have. And I really respect that. And then I've also had... I had Tucker Max on last week, which I know you did book in a box with him.

Yeah. Tucker's a buddy. Yeah. Dude, I feel like I'm in rare air. Don't screw it up. Well, I got another crazy thing. This is something that's completely unrelated. I was talking to somebody the other day, David Gonzalez here in Austin, and we were on FaceTime. And he's like, hey, man, do you know a guy named John Ruhle? And I was like, well, I don't know him, but I've heard of him many times.

We're FaceTiming. He's like, he just sent me a gift in the mail and he shows it to me. And he's like, and he has this like, you have the coolest business card I've ever seen in my life. It's like a metal, isn't it? Is it made out of metal or something like that?

Yeah, it's made out of steel. Both our business card and our letterhead are sheets of steel. It's crazy. But it was cool because, and that was one of the things where I was like, I can't wait to have him on, but I was just waiting for when I got into season two. But what was cool about it was I was able to, Your book is Giftology and it's the science of giving gifts in a sense. But I was able to actually see somebody's reaction basically the second that they got it and how appreciative he was to receive it in that moment for... I think you guys just had a phone call or something like that, wasn't it? Yeah, we had a chat. We got introduced through

Danny Iney and had a good conversation. And I mean, I send out a couple hundred thousand dollars a year worth of gifts to just people I meet on airplanes and clients and prospects. And I had a good call with David. And so three days later, a gift showed up. Thank him for carving out the time. An hour of his time or an hour of your time is pretty valuable. And most people don't honor that.

It's cool. of his time or an hour of your time is pretty valuable. And most people don't honor that. It's cool. It was just cool to see it happen in the moment. Because I love to make somebody feel special. And it's cool because he's a really special person to see that moment where he felt special because of the gift you gave him was awesome. So I'm glad that we're finally connecting. Yeah, dude, I wish you were recorded that FaceTime conversation. So it never gets old for me to see. And oftentimes I don't get I get to hear about with a note or an email or whatever else. But to actually visually see people open up a gift like that is pretty powerful. Yeah, I love that. And so let me ask you this. Let's go back to the very beginning then. And just start

because I know you have the book and I want to talk about this, but how did you get into gifting? And if you give us the story behind it and where you started to, I guess when the first time you saw the connection of like, wow, this thing is actually extremely powerful to give a gift to somebody. Yeah. Well, I witnessed it firsthand. And the abbreviated story is I saw it. I had a mentor who was radically generous. He was an attorney, but seemed to be involved in everything else on the planet. And every deal seemed to flow his way. And he was always giving things away. Like he'd find deals on noodles and buy a semi-load of noodles. And so it was early in my Cutco career that I pitched him the idea of giving away pocket knives because all his clients were men. And he got this little

smile on his face and said, hey, what about the paring knives? And I'm like, you're going to give grown men CEOs paring knives? That's the weirdest thing ever. And he said, you know why? And I said, no, I'm like 20 years old. I have no clue. And he's like, because I found that if you take care of the family and the spouse and what I now call the inner circle. He's like, everything else takes

care of itself. So that was like my aha moment. And I would say over the last 16 years, I've got to model this best practice of gifting the inner circle, the assistant, the kids or the spouse and have landed some of my biggest deals with the NBA and other big clients because of using this best practice. It's interesting because I saw as I was doing research and going through everything, I saw that Darren Hardy had a... I think it was Darren Hardy had an actual thing on YouTube for you. And it was he got a gift from one of your clients, I guess it was. But it wasn't even necessarily a gift for him. It was more for his wife because they got a set of knives. And it's funny when you take... I guess men are a little bit easier in that sense. But if you

take care of the wife, she's going to... I have a friend who got a really big mentor. He was trying to get him forever. And he was getting hounded by people and getting talked to by everybody at a conference. And then he goes, well, his wife is over there. Why don't I just spend a lot of time with her? And so he spent two hours with his wife because what he thought was, well, if I can't spend time with him, his name was Travis. If I can't spend time with Travis, if I can get in his wife's ear, maybe she'll be like, you know what? This guy was really nice. You should start talking to him a little bit more. And he got his biggest mentor from taking care of the wife when her husband was being hounded and all of these people were talking to him.

And it's interesting that when you decide to take care of everybody in the circle of, and not just the CEO or just the one person, that it can affect it more than just the one person. The psychology of it. I mean, think about the person who is in that person's ear and has the trust and the buy-in and the belief, you're never going to be that person. But if you get the spouse or the assistant who is the closest person to that person to buy in, and they're usually the ones that's treated like the arm candy or the gatekeeper, like they're used to being dumped on. If you treat them genuinely with love and respect and treat them like a peer, one, that's very unusual.

So it stands out. And two, like, you know, like you think about like the word pillow talk. Like you want to get somebody to, you know, to get buy in like their spouse, like, you know, saying just three words like, hey, I really like that Rob guy. Yeah. Like that means more than a thousand things you're going to do for that executive. Absolutely. Period. And so I think more than anything else,

what it comes down to is giving from the heart, but also there's a part of it that's the law of reciprocity. And this is something that I've learned very early on, and I don't know exactly what it was, if it was Cutco or if it was after Cutco, but what I learned is that your network very early on. And I don't know exactly what it was, if it was Cutco or if it was after Cutco. But what I learned is that your network is basically everything, where you're going to be, the people you hang out with, the people you talk to. And so I made it a mission about four,

five, six years ago to be around people that I knew were really big influencers that were probably further ahead of than me that I could have as mentors. But what I started doing first, it wasn't actually gifts, but it was just the fact of giving them my time where I would see how can I offer them value? Well, I know a lot about social media. It doesn't look like... Actually, even to the point yesterday, I completely forgot about this. My girlfriend's trying to learn a certain painting technique. And there's a lady at a place that has this amazing paintings. And I was like, so what does your social media look like? Because I want my girlfriend to be able to learn from her. And I was like, well, what if we just kind of help you with your social media and you kind of teach her some stuff? But it's just that it's funny because I just thought

of that from last night. It happened. But what do you think it is about the law of reciprocity where it's like, I try to go into every relationship, as Gary Vaynerchuk says, giving 51% at least. Not because I feel like I'm trying to get something from somebody, there's nothing behind it, but I just want to try to give more value than the other person because I feel like that's the right thing to do. What do you think the psychology or what do you know about the law of reciprocity and why it is that we always want to give back whenever we're given? Yeah. Well, I think, I mean, Robert Cialdini's book Influence is a fantastic book that talks about just the power of it. And it's not just a 2016 thing. It goes back throughout history. Like even in biblical times,

like Old Testament, like kings would give other kings gifts based upon the value of the relationship. It would be like 10,000 head of cattle. Because I think inherently, you know, from, I think from a thriving perspective, where the DNA of human beings is that when people do nice things and they do it, no strings attached, we just can't help. It's like pushing a button. You give enough value to somebody, eventually they can't help but want to respond in kind. And oftentimes even to exceed, because they don't want the scales to be even, they would prefer to actually flip the scales to where they give more than what they've been given. So I think psychologically, when you can do that, and not do it once, because sometimes people can forget or they get distracted. But you start

adding value to somebody like a Gary Vee, and you go even beyond the 51%, and you're like, you're 100% in. And not once, but twice, but like five and 10 times. It just overwhelms people. And psychologically, whether they realize it or not, subconsciously, they're thinking, how can I repay this kindness and exceed it? Because I don't feel good. I don't feel good not having reciprocated. Well, let me ask you this. So I know there's a lot of business owners that listen to my podcast, but there's also

a lot of people who work for somebody else. So if you could give me, I guess, some examples or reasons why, number one, gifting is so amazing, just in the fact of business, but also in the fact of if you don't own a business or you're trying to make a connection with somebody or build a friendship or whatever it might be, what's the value that you've been able to see of giving gifts in business, but also giving gifts if you are an employee? Yeah. Well, I think that the, the, you know, going to the employee side, I think the best employees act as entrepreneurs and aren't afraid to invest their own money if the, if there's an ROI. And so if you want to get ahead, whether you're a sales rep or a director of marketing, like, I don't care what your budget is.

Like, if you care about people and care about advancing your career, whether that's in corporate America or as an entrepreneur, like, bottom line is you can't wait for somebody else to sign off on something. Like, invest your own money if you really care. And I'd say for me, like I've had instances, you know, one of my favorite stories to share involves, you know, a mentor, a potential client, a potential like game changer for me that I met at a conference. His name's Cameron Harold. He was, he's a coach. Oh, I love this story. I've heard this.

I've heard this. I was going to ask you about this. I'm so glad you're already going into it. Yeah, it's, I mean, it really models the best practice that, you know, eight, nine years ago, I didn't have like the success that I've had at this point. And so I'd met this guy. I was like, this guy could be a game changer. Found out he was coming to Cleveland to speak.

And he's one of the biggest CEO coaches in the world. And so I'm like, hey, what are you going to do when you're in town? And he said, nothing. I'm going to go shopping at my favorite store. And I'm thinking, well, maybe this is my angle. And I said, where are you shopping? He said, Brooks Brothers. And I and i'm like on the spot i'm like i'm a jose bank guy what's your shirt size of course he's like looking at me weird like why are you asking my shirt size you have a man crush on me like it's weird right and so long story short is he flies in to cleveland and we had set up to do cabs opening night lebron's in town

and in a steak dinner. And you could tell, like, he's going to go on 100 of those. So that wasn't going to be, like, a game changer. And so I had to talk my business partner into this. He thought I was nuts. But I drove up five hours before he got into town to Brooks Brothers, put down the Amex, and said, I want one of everything in the New Fall collection in this guy's size. And it was $7,000 worth of clothes. I'm pouring with sweat because I'm so nervous. one of everything in the new fall collection in this guy's size. And it was $7,000 worth of clothes.

I'm pouring with sweat because I'm so nervous. I'm like, I'm going to lose my business or I'm going to lose my mind. He's going to think I'm a stalker. And so I went over to the Ritz and ended up working out a deal with the GM of the Ritz to merchandise this whole hotel room to look like a Brooks Brothers store. Shirts here, sweaters. And then I waited downstairs with my business partner, you know, drinking like a triple like bourbon on the rocks because I'm so good at this. He comes into town. It had been a travel day from hell. You could tell like he was like, why did I ever agree to this dinner and the ball game? Like I should have just said no. And he goes up to his room to take a shower and comes back down and he's like glowing. He's like, John, I've had a lot of cool people like in Dubai do amazing things for me. He's like, whatever you want to talk about for as long as you want to talk about it, I'm all ears.

He's like, I've never had anybody treat me like this at this level. Like what you did for me is amazing. Now, you look over the last nine years, he's opened up doors with the president of Starbucks. He's included me in books. he's included me in books he's done things that 10 million dollars worth of advertising couldn't do all because of this over-the-top personalized gift and experience yeah that's i absolutely love that story just because the fact that it shows that you went over and above and more than anything else it's not even about the fact of how much money he spends the fact that you listened and then you made him feel a certain way.

And that's ultimately what we're trying to do. It's the phrase, it's not... I don't want to throw out the cliche phrase because it is so cliche. But in reality, you made him feel a certain way like, holy crap, this guy actually cares about me. And I want to give him some time because he went over and above. And now I want to try to go over and above back for him. Now, give people an idea of exactly who he mentors, who he coaches, and what this guy

does to give them an idea of how that $7,000 investment was massive for you. Yeah, well, a couple of different things. One is he wrote the book Double Double and Meeting Suck. He's one of the top speakers in the world. The CEO of Sprint, a $10, $20 billion company, he's the coach of that CEO. The 300 businesses for the shake of Qatar, he's the coach to the shake. This isn't like, hey, I'm coaching little Jimmy down the street doing $250,000 in business. He's literally coaching world leaders and top 10 TED Talk out of Canada. Tucker Max is being

coached by him. Those kind of people in 10 levels higher. So he's a big deal. The fun part is, you know, it would have been worth the seven grand, but he actually came back to me after the fact and said, John, one of two things is going to happen. The experience and the, the, what you did for me and what you put on the line for me was the gift. I can't let you buy the clothes too. So I picked out the clothes I wanted and I'm either going to write you a check for 50% more than I think they cost, or you're going to tell me how much it was, and I'm going to write a check for that. Oh, my gosh. So that experience cost me, other than the ballgame and tickets and just the kahunas, the balls to go do it,

it cost me nothing. That's crazy. And there are times where I do, like, I sent somebody a sauna after an interview. A sauna? A sauna. Oh, my gosh. Now, that wasn't free, but it was a few thousand dollars. People will drop, you know, $50,000 on a trade show booth or $500,000 on an advertising

campaign and not even think twice about it. Or they'll pick up a bar tab for like a grand. And then when it comes time to actually show appreciation to these people, we go cheap. We do bars of chocolate and cheap bottles of wine and it doesn't make any sense. So psychologically, we're not communicating the value of relationships when we gift these lame fricking gifts and these weak vanilla, like, hey, I'm going to give a gift basket like everybody else. So yeah, psychologically, like going above and beyond just communicates a different language to them. Yeah. That's interesting you say that. I had this conversation two weeks ago because I had a dinner with, two weeks ago with the second richest guy in Texas and he's

multi-multi-billionaire. And I was telling somebody that we were going out to dinner and it was set up because we know mutual people. And I was going to dinner with the guy and he was coming up and he said he wanted to meet me and all of these things. And then I told the person I was speaking to, I was like, yeah, I'm going to buy this guy's dinner and not let him buy it. And their thought process was, that's kind of ridiculous. They said to me, this guy's, you make good money, but this guy's a billionaire. This is a drop in the bucket for him. you know, this guy's, you make good money, but this guy's a billionaire. Like he, this is a drop in the bucket for him. And what I said to them was that it's not the fact that,

that he has more money than me. It's the fact that this guy's time is worth way more than that is in the first place. Um, and I'm sure, and it's just honoring somebody's time in the first place, the most important non-renewable resource that we have is somebody's time. And for them to be able, for him to be able to give it to you, the time in the first place was probably, if you had paid the entire $7,000, it was probably worth more than a $7,000, wasn't it? Easily. Yeah. And so, and so it's just about the fact of honoring someone's time. And you could tell that when I snuck the card in and he was trying to pay for it and she goes, no, it's already been taken, that he... It was the look of surprise, like nobody does this for me.

Right? And I think that part of the thing that people don't realize, they say, what value do I have to give to somebody who's a millionaire, a billionaire, super successful? I think that most of the time when you get to that level of success, people, as sad as it is, somewhat use those people. And for you to be able to give to them and to... I think they might actually appreciate it more than someone who has less because of the fact that they don't ever have that happen anymore.

Nope. You're totally right. They've kind of lost that. So I'm interested in... Go ahead. When you make it not an option, the fact that... I call ahead and oftentimes will put my credit card down before I even get there because I don't even want the bill to come out until it's been paid for and even not come out at all. I think it just signals that it isn't like a show. It's like you're honoring the person's time and their value on top of everything else. Like you're right. Most people are used to like always picking up the tab for everybody at that level. And, um, yeah, it's super, you know, just a very subtle thing to say I'm different. And I acknowledge the fact of who you are and what you're probably,

I understand who you are as a human being. Right. For sure. And it's, it's funny because I had given her my card and then he, before the bill came out, he gave her his card and I had given her my card about an hour before and she took his card and I was like, no, did she forget that she has my card? And then she came back and handed him his card back and gave me the bill. And I was like, all right, thank God. Cause that would have been really bad. I'm trying to honor this guy's time with anything else. I have a question for you that I don't know if you've, if you've been asked before. Um, but I'm, I grew up extremely poor and had a big scarcity mindset with money for a really long time. And I was trying to figure out how to get rid of scarcity

and create an abundance mindset. And I'm curious what your thoughts are on this, of giving something to somebody and what it deals with your scarcity mindset, somebody just in general. My personal feeling is that if I see someone... I always keep water and crackers in my car because there's a lot of homeless people in Austin. And I think that if I'm able to give something to somebody, and my brain makes a connection of, hold on, I just gave something to somebody, whether it's money or whether it's food, and I still have enough to live. it's money or whether it's food, and I still have enough to live, well, maybe I actually have more than I need. And it kind of demolishes the scarcity mindset. What are your thoughts around

that? And have you ever thought about that before? Yeah, well, I grew up poor. I grew up one of six kids poor on a farm milking goats every day. So I don't know where you grew up or what the exact situation was, but I definitely wasn't the kid walking around with Air Jordans on. And so I definitely have, you know, had that same mindset. I would say that having that mentor that was radically generous and seeing how joyful he was and how money wasn't a big deal and how being generous wasn't a big deal. I think seeing that repeatedly for a couple of years got me a taste of like, well, maybe this

is possible. And maybe like, you know, this is how you give, you know, you reap what you sow and the more you give, the more you get. And like, maybe this is how God's wired the world. And so I got to try it and I would, you know, I would get the courage to like send a $200 gift to somebody, which as a college student, that's poor, like $200 might as well have been $20,000. Um, and I would see like how that felt and I would see the response. And I, I became kind of addicted to the idea of this generosity mindset and that, and then I would see over, you the course of years like seven years later something would would come out of a gift I'd given seven years before wow and so it just kind of

became this snowball that once I got the snowball going um even when I got to the point where I almost lost my business and almost went bankrupt um I was still doing like the Cameron Harold Brooks Brothers type stories because I knew that like you don't get out of those situations by like locking things down and like all of a sudden becoming like miserly. Like if anything, you get out of those situations by doubling down on generosity and pouring into people because you talked about like your network being your net worth. Like I knew I had good relationships that I poured poured into. And I had to continue on based upon what I'd seen over the previous decade. But if it hadn't been for that mentor that had modeled it for years, I don't think I ever would have believed it. Yeah, that's so true. And it's

interesting because I have a group coaching program. And part of it is every once in a while I'll do a 10-day challenge. And I decided this past challenge to do what we just called the Do Good Challenge. And I started it because one day I had a Thursday that was pretty open. I had like three hours that I had nothing where I was just going to do some work. And I saw a video on Facebook of this guy going out and just asking people, Hey, what can I do for you today? What can I do for you today? And it inspired me to start this. And I would say it was the most excited

I've been about something in a really long time to the point where I was like, you know what, I'm just going to go out and do something right now. So I went out and bought like tons of hamburgers and literally tons of hamburgers, a bunch of them. I bought burgers for the people that were behind me. And then I bought a bunch of hamburgers and just started handing them out to all these homeless people that are out there. And it was one of the most fun, like three hours that I've had in a long time by giving just without taking anything from it. But just the fact of giving people things and seeing, like you said at the very beginning, seeing their face light up of like, you know, it's somebody actually going out of their way for me. And as good as it makes them feel, I think it actually

sometimes makes us feel better. Because in a way, I think that it does sometimes because you really see someone light up. And so the question I have for you with that is, what's your favorite story of like the biggest gift that you've favorite story of the biggest gift that you've given or even the smallest gift that you've given that turns into something crazy or the craziest gift that you've given or that you have heard now since the book's been out for a few months of somebody doing the same thing and it coming back to them? Yeah. Well, I think that there's giving that's strategic on your business side of things, which like the Cameron Herald story, and I could tell you more in detail on the sauna, or we sent somebody an entire freezer full of ice cream and just stuff like that. But there's no strings attached, but there is a hope that this is going to come back, whether it's, you know, through them or through somebody else. Like the freezer was, you know, Jeffrey Gittimer, who's a, you know, sold four or five million

books, sales books. He's a buddy. He's done a bunch of things for me. But I also know that like he has the capacity to do when I send him a, you know, a fricking freezer of his favorite ice cream, like, you know, a hundred quarts of his favorite ice cream. Like he's going to tell that he's like, dude, you're memorialized for all time of like the best gift ever. Like he's videotaped it. He's shown it around to people. So there's those things that you kind of like you plant a seed and you kind of expect it to grow into something, even if it's 20 years later. Right. And then I think there's the gift of like giving something to somebody that there's really no way that they're going to give anything back to you. Like it's really not only is it no strings attached,

but there's really no financial benefit. And it's more of like you're putting out into the world like generosity. And I think the Bible talks about being a joyful giver. Like it's more for the giver than it is really for the receiver. And one of the things a mentor of mine, Tom Hill, encourages us to do is to keep a $100 bill, a crisp hundred dollar bill in your wallet at all times. And around once a month, just look for times where you can give it to people that it might be somebody at a gas station, might be paying for somebody's groceries ahead of you.

It might be a janitor at a place like just look for opportunities to give. And I can remember one of the times down, I was at a NASCAR event and my wife and I were fighting, not getting along and I'm getting ready to fly back. And I'm kind of just in a bad mood. And I walk in and I see this guy that's like, just, you know, you could tell like he's in a bad spot. I got a gas station. I go into use the restroom and I come back out and I'm like, dude, I need to get my attitudes, you know, screwed on straight here. Like I need to be more generous because right now I'm just pissed off. And I walked past this guy again and I'm like, you know what? I just feel,

whether you believe in a guy or not, I just felt called. This is the guy that's supposed to get the hundred bucks. And I go walk up to him. I said, dude, I don't know your situation, but I just want you to know that God loves you. And I feel called to give you this. And I gave him the hundred dollar bill. And dude, he just broke down just crying. And I feel called to give you this. And I gave him a hundred dollar bill and dude, he just broke down just crying. And he, and he started to explain like his story and his wife and divorce and where they were at and why he was in the situation he was in. And like, you could tell like, you know, a hundred dollars to me wasn't that big a deal, but a hundred dollars to him. I don't know what, I don't know what that turned into, but I have heard of cases like the book, The Shack, which has sold like 10 or 20 million copies. The whole way that that guy got to... That guy wrote

that book to explain God to his kids. He has eight kids. And somebody left five $20 bills in an envelope around Christmas in his mailbox. And that allowed him to buy milk, gas, and to print at Office Depot 20 copies of his book. And one of his friends got the book and said, this is the best book I've ever seen. You have to publish this. They self-published it. And it's now being made into a movie. Literally, it's sold somewhere between 10 and 20 million copies, all because somebody felt called to leave him $100 in an envelope in the mailbox. Wow. So you never know when you give like that. Like in this case, you get to see like what happened.

But I think there's a lot of those cases where it just – it could be that tipping point for that person to go in a completely different direction with their life. Man, that's amazing. Did you tell something about this, like some sort of story about this to David Gonzalez? Do you remember that? No. Because he just did this the other day. He had a Facebook Live where he was like, I'm really nervous. I have 100 bucks and I just want to go give it to somebody. And he went up to a guy that was in the airport that he saw that was like, you know, he's one of the guys that was like the janitors and he was super cheerful and nice. And he was like, I just feel compelled to give you this. And he gave him a hundred bucks and then walked away. And so I didn't know if you had told him this story before, uh, because I know just literally like five days

ago. Dude, that's hilarious. No, I would say maybe Tom Hill, you know, has, they call them Hills angels, like this coaching clients. He has like 100 of them. And one of the guys I think owns like web domain of like $100 gift or $100 generosity.com or something like that. So there are other people out there. And I think there's actually a guy out of Kansas City that's known as like the Secret Santa, um, that CBS Sunday morning, like he'll go around with a hundred thousand dollars and a hundred dollar bills around Christmas and just goes around, you know, telling people that God loves you and just hands them like a stack of hundreds and not asking for anything in return. So I'm not the first person I'm sure to, uh, to talk about it, but it is crazy how powerful a hundred bucks can be to somebody's life. Yeah, absolutely. Let me ask you this. I

want to, I want to talk about it cause we've, we've kind of talked a little bit about it, but, um, about your, your network. One of the things that I always talk about is getting yourself and your, what's your top five look like the people that you hang out with the most, like my, my best friend in the entire world that I speak to at least a half an hour to an hour a day, um, is an ex Cutco person who I feel is on the same level as me. He pushes me. Um, I push him, you know, I'm, I'm in good shape, but he's gotten in, in really good shape lately, which has pushed me to go to the gym even more like two a days. Um, and so your network is, uh, Dean DeVries. He was a DM as well. And so he, uh, he lives in Florida. So we talk pretty often.

Have you ever heard his name before? Dean DeVries. I've heard his name, but I've never met him. Yeah. So he's, he's lost like, uh, let me think 40 pounds this, this year, I think. Um, and so he's put up a picture on Facebook and he looked like he I've always been the more fit one, but he looked more fit than me in this picture. I was like, no, this is not happening. This isn't the way our relationship works. I'm the more fit one. That's it. It's just the, so I started doing like two a day. So it's only because we feed off of each other, right? That's kind of your network. And you have an amazing network of people that are all ex-Cutco people. I guess in your top four or five that I know of, it's you, John Berghoff, who is my mentor, John Vroman, and then Hal Elrod as well.

Talk to me about your thoughts of having a network of great people, and then also how gifting has been able to expand your network to get in front of people that, you know, maybe would be extremely hard to get in front of? Yeah, well, I think it's a Jim Rohn quote, or it's or Zig Ziegler, like, you know, the people that you surround yourself with, you know, whether it's five or 10 people and the books you read, or like, that's going to determine who you are. And so I'm a big believer in that. And there's definitely, I've been blessed with a lot of great guys like, you know, that are former Cutco guys. John Cain's in that inner circle.

He's amazing too. My business partner, Rod Newenschwander, who owns half of my company, is another one of those guys that's just solid and just, you know, has upped my game in so many levels. And so I think that that's really powerful. I will say from a gifting perspective, you know, it's hard, you know, if you want to accelerate relationships, like, you know, time, quality time is one of those things. But I do think that the more you can pour into people, when I think that because people are such horrible gift givers, you know, they struggle with that, that when you show generosity to people

that maybe are more like more on the peripheral of your relationships, you know, people you meet at a mastermind or at a conference, when you are the one person that sends the handwritten note and the gift for their spouse or, you know, stays in touch with them, all of a sudden you can leapfrog, you know, somebody that they may know for 10 years to all of a sudden you can leapfrog somebody that they may know for 10 years to all of a sudden you're top of mind with them. And all of a sudden you get invited to random crazy events and opportunities because nobody else in their life is, even their inner circle, may not be honoring them and appreciating them at that level. And I would say from a prospecting perspective, same thing. We're all busy. with social media, there's a lot of noise,

a lot of digital noise. And it's hard to ignore when a big box, when a sauna shows up to somebody's house or when, you know, a customized set of knives that has their wife's name on it shows up and they're using them every single day. And, you know, they're thinking about you 365 days a year. All of a sudden, like people do business and refer business and invite people into their circle that are the most top of mind. And there's a book coming out called Top of Mind, who a client and good friend, John Hall, is writing. And I think that when you can be thought of, not just thought of, but thought of positively, that kind of cost per impression, I call it cost per positive impression, daily, all of a sudden, like, it's amazing how, you know, I got Jeffrey Gittermer

as a client and a buddy, because I sent him 18 gifts over the course of 18 months. Oh, my gosh. And that pleasant, persistent, Gittermer's like, dude, I got to meet you. Come to my house. If you come into Charlotte, we'll hang out. I don't know where it's going to go from there, but dude, you got my attention. And I think it was because 18 random acts of generosity, it's hard to ignore. It's super hard to ignore. That's interesting. That just reminds me of actually the biggest sale that I've ever had with old company I was with before I went out and started my own business was I had a mentor who is my sales manager and he's like you know

what's what's the two or three guys you have to get in front of and and I was like there's this one guy I've been calling I've been trying to get a hold of him he's talked to me for like two minutes and and I got to get in front of this guy and I've been calling him. I've been trying to get a hold of him. He's talked to me for like two minutes. And I got to get in front of this guy. And he's like, all right, well, let's do this. Let's spend 30 minutes finding out anything that we can about this guy. Go on his Facebook, on his LinkedIn. Go on everything that you can.

And in a sense, stalk the guy, right? Just see whatever you... Find out what you can. And so I'm like, all right, this is what I found out. He owns this business. He's an investor in this business, this business, this business, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And at that point in time, I was selling services for CEOs for the businesses and stuff. And what happened was he was an investor in a weight company that's local here in Austin. And he was also an investor in two liquor companies, two separate liquor companies in Austin.

And so he's like, all right, we're going to go do this. So we go, we hop in his car and he's like, this is how you, this is how you, you know, for anybody who's a salesperson out there, he says, this is how you actually get in front of people that are hard to get in front of. Sometimes you're going to strike out. Sometimes you're going to hit a home run. And we went and spent like 200 bucks. I bought a few of the, the weight equipment that he had, a few of those things. And then I had the two bottles of liquor as well. And so I put them in a box. We made it all nice. It was super nice. We had the ladies that were in the office, put a whole bunch of things in there. And it was this massive box that weighed like 50 pounds because it had weights in it. And I wrote on there, you've made some really good

decisions in business. Let me talk to you about your next one. And then dropped it off for him. And it took me forever to try to get ahold of this guy. And within 45 minutes, he called me and ended up getting a massive commission off of it. So it's interesting how if you literally go out of your way and do something meaningful, people will want to at least hear from you or talk to you a little bit. Yeah. You can't have a sucky service or business at that point. Like you still got to close the deal, but it's amazing how when you are willing to, I call it like, like Gary Vaynerchuk talks about like being an attention broker. You're basically buying their time ahead of time. Yeah. Like I want to buy, I want to, I want to buy five minutes of your attention. And at that

point you can decide, you know, if my service or product or why don't, what I want to buy five minutes of your attention. And at that point, you can decide if my service or product or what I want to talk to you about sucks. And if it does, then no amount of gifting will save you. Right. But that act of crazy over-the-top generosity on the front end, if done properly, can really freak people out in a good way. Yeah. And people are always worried about the front end cost.

And that was a couple hundred bucks. If I were to do that for 10 or 15 different people and only get one of them, sell to one of them, that was tens of thousands of dollars as a commission. It 100% paid off and got me into a network of people that I would have never been into. There's sometimes... Do you ever feel this? I have an interesting question. Do you ever feel like with these gifts that you give? Because I 100% feel this way sometimes where I'm like, holy crap, why is this person sitting down and talking to me? Like, this person is so far past me. Do you ever feel like you're, in a sense, getting in front of people that sometimes you're

just like, man, this person's so far out of my league, I can't believe that this is actually working. Dude, it happens every week. I mean, I'm sitting down. I mean, we have 25 pro sports teams as clients. So like the Cubs are clients. Yeah. And the whole way that we got to them was through gifting different people and getting referred to them and following up with them for seven years with gifts. And they finally called me and said, John, we got this project with, we want to take pieces of Wrigley Field, the locker room would, and we want to create a gift. And we think that you might be the company to do that. I'm like, really? Like I'm talking to a hundred year old, like iconic, internationally iconic, you know, sports franchise. Like this is, I mean, I'm an Ohio farm boy. Like this is silly.

Right. But I have those conversations. I mean, the Spurs are clients. They're an NBA champion. I mean, I could go down the list of our clients and be like, I've outkicked my coverage. You know, like this is, but at the end of the day, like we're still all human beings. Even that billionaire Texas guy that you met with, like he still has to get up every day and put his pants on. And he has, you know, probably if he's married, you know, he has thoughts and fears around his kids.

Like we're all still human beings. Like that's what people forget. Like money doesn't necessarily change you being a human being. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. We all still want to feel the same. That's for sure. Yeah.

Well, let me ask you this. What's next for you? What's next for the... Are you... You got any specific plans as far as getting Giftology further out or expanding the business? What's next for you and your business in the next two to four years? Yeah. So, I mean, I have... the goal is to continue to, you know, similar to what Hal Elrod's done. I mean, it's a three-year marathon with the book. You know, the goal is, you know, we're getting on bigger and bigger stages with some of the top companies in the world that, you know, sales summits and sales conferences. And last year we spoke at Google and one of my big bucket list items is I want to speak on the main

TED stage about giftology. We just bought a manufacturing company in St. Louis. So now we're creating our own handmade, handcrafted like leather goods and wood and metal and we'll create our own brands to sell underneath of that. And I would say that, you know, really at the end of the day, like I'm probably more focused on things I'm probably more focused on things I'm going to do with my family. I have three girls under five and want to, I've spent

a lot of time on the road. Um, so I'm, I'm, uh, I would say my playbook is continue to speak to bigger and more influential audiences. There's not a giftology to coming out next year. Like this is, I put everything I had into the playbook. And so I'd really just want to finish executing that over the next, I'd say three to five years and continue to look for opportunities to invest in other companies and focus more on quality of life than I am on like, you know, I don't necessarily have to be a thousand person company, but I love playing with those $20 billion companies and having influence. Yeah, absolutely.

Well, let me ask you this. For people that are out there, how can they get a hold of you? How can they get the book? And then what's the easiest way? If somebody's sitting there and they're like, well, I want to buy this book. It sounds interesting to me, but I'm just a housewife. I'm just these types of things. I have a small business that only has two employees or I'm just a housewife. I'm just these types of things. I have a small business that only has two employees.

I'm just a salesperson. Number one, how can they get the book? And number two, how can this book help all of those people besides everything that we obviously just covered? Yeah. Well, I mean, they can check out more information like the Darren Hardy video and Jeffrey Gittermer video. Those are all at giftologybook.com. And if they just want some parameters on the worst gifts to avoid going into the holidays right now, which actually the holidays, ironically enough, are the worst time to send gifts,

there's a free PDF. If they go to giftologybook.com slash MWF. They can get that free download of the top 10 worst gifts to avoid. Awesome. And then if they go to Amazon, I mean, it's on Audible, Kindle, you know, paperback, all that kind of stuff. You can order it on Amazon. And of course, you can follow us, you know, Facebook.com slash John Rulon or Twitter is just at Rulon. And then if people are interested in, you know, wanting us to engage and help them with their gifting programs and actually outsource things, they can go to Rulon group, all one dot com. But I would say what's interesting about the book is I've had people reach out from Vietnam and places all over the world and say, you know

what, this book has actually helped me become a better husband or wife because I'm actually thinking about my generosity inside my my personal inner circle. And oftentimes we make gifts about ourselves or we just don't, we're not real thoughtful about how we show gratitude and appreciation to the people that matter the most to us. So I see, even though it was a business book, I see people applying it almost like an element of the five love languages, which is a big bestseller from a more interpersonal relationships. And I would say that, you know, I have clients, you know, from, you know, half a million dollars to, you know, 50 billion in revenue. At the end of the day, it's not the people that are spending the most on the gifts. It's people that are looking

to like some of our best clients are small and mid-sized companies that are going up against the Goliaths of the world. And they're like, we only have this much to spend and our competitors have a hundred times. How do I take my small bucket of money, whether that's $5,000 or whether that's 50,000 or 500,000, how do I make that more effective than my competitors? And oftentimes, gifting is that one lever that most people suck at. And if they are looking for ways to differentiate and stand out amongst all this noise, oftentimes how we show gratitude and appreciation can be that one difference maker. And so I would say that whether you're a sales rep looking to break into your top 100 accounts, or whether you're the CEO or founder of a small company or the director of marketing for a billion dollar company, at the end of the

day, our playbook, I think, really spans all audiences because it's not based on an industry or like a new fad. It's based on something that's been around for 5,000 years. People have just forgotten about it. And we're just putting a spotlight on things that have worked for thousands of years. It's awesome. I love it. Well, I appreciate your time, man. And I appreciate you sharing this because it's one of the things that I found, I think personally, is one of the most important things that people can do is to give more for themselves to make themselves feel better, but also because of the fact just to make somebody else feel better. And it's important to know that all of it is giving just because of the fact

they feel like you should be giving, not to get anything out of it. But sometimes, you know, you reap what you sow, you're going to get some stuff back that's, you know, in my personal opinion, I feel like whenever I give and continue to give, I get 10 times back and that's just the way that it works.

And so I appreciate you sharing this message with everybody because I 100% bought into exactly what you're saying. Rob, man, thanks for bringing me on and sharing me with your tribe. You've asked some questions I've never answered before. So thanks for taking me down some different rabbit holes. I appreciate it. Absolutely, man. Thanks. Well, that's it for today's podcast. If you want the show notes for this episode, they can be found at mwfmotivation.com. Also, if you liked this episode, please spread the love and share it with a friend because it's our mission to help as many people as we can. And to keep in touch, you can follow us on Instagram and Facebook. Both handles

are at MWFMotivation with no spaces. Now you know what time it is. So go out and make your dreams a reality. Outro Music