The Mismatch - 76ers Falling Fast, Building Around Luka, and What Are You Watching Tonight?

Episode Date: May 5, 2022

James Harden has yet to show up and even if Joel Embiid returns, there’s little chance the 76ers can turn it around as Verno and KOC recap Game 2 between the Sixers and the Heat (01:42). The Suns go up 2-0 and the guys discuss how amazing it is that Chris Paul is still performing at the highest level and continues to bring out the best in his teammates (17:13). After dropping Game 1, the Celtics bounced back in Game 2 to tie their series with the Bucks (32:53). The Grizzlies also tied their series and the guys discuss the Warriors strategy when it comes to guarding Ja Morant (41:15). With no games on tonight, the guys discuss what they'll be watching (01:04:00). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, this is Justin Barrier. I'm Rob Mahoney. And I'm Big Wasa, aka Wazzy Lambray. And we are the host of Group Chat on the Ringer NBA show. Hey, did you guys know The Ringer NBA show, The Feed, now has shows six times a week. On Sundays, you can find me chopping it up with some of my favorite people from the NBA world on weekends with Waz. On Mondays, on Mondays, you could listen to with Logan Murdoch and Roger Bell on real ones. And on Tuesdays, Jay Kyle Mann and Jonathan Sharks discuss up-and-coming talent in the NBA.

on upside high. Wednesdays, you can listen to Justin, Rob, and myself on group chat. And on Fridays, check out the answer with Chris Ryan and Sirius Soe. So go ahead and follow the Ringer NBA show on Spotify. We promise you'll never run out of contact. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me as he does every Thursday from the Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor,

a.k. Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Bomberner, Kevin O'Bombertoe, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'OConnor, Kevin O'Candiland. Berno! Thursday. Yeah, and odd day because we don't have any games going on tonight. This will be a night of rest for everyone to gear up for the weekend. We did have two games last night. Let's start with the first one, which was the heat taking a two-oh lead against the 76ers.

They won the game 119 to 103. Kind of puts Philly in a precarious situation because the heat. have the best record in NBA history when they are up to O. In fact, they've never lost a series in their franchise's history. They're 16 and O when they're up to O in a series. The 76ers are 0 and 13 all time when they are down O2. So tough spot for Philly, but they do get to go back home to attempt to win a couple of games. biggest takeaways from watching Heat Sixers last night?

Just the way they threw different looks at James Harden. Different guys on him, on ball. Sometimes you're throwing doubles in pressure and getting the ball out of his hands. Other times you're not constantly changing things up. I think that's a sign of things to come once Joelle B. returns. And we don't know for sure if that'll happen at Game 3. Chris Haynes reported last night during the game

that Embed said he wasn't even able to look at his phone. without his eyes hurt in which, you know, makes it sound like more than a, you know, a mild concussion. But for Abed, assuming he does return in game three,

the main thought on my mind is Miami is going to continue to throw different looks. Sometimes it's going to be single coverage with Bam. Sometimes they're going to double. And I think for Joelle and Bede, he is going to change the series, obviously. I wonder,

like, is it to the point, do you feel that Embed's return actually gives Philly a chance to get back in it? No. I don't. I think Miami is just going to dismantle them.

Yeah, I think Miami is, I think they're too deep for that Philly team. You know, as soon as you get into the bench, it is an absolute debacle for Philadelphia. I mean, they just have nothing. And Embby doesn't change that. I mean, right? It's not like they've got somebody in his place that then gets to move to the bench that would be extremely helpful off the bench. that's the issue here. And if they're going to be throwing out, you know, Tyler Hero, one game, getting you

25, the next game, getting you 18, Ola Depot, looking like he does, which is a revelation for that team. I mean, they got a guy that they pay, what they give Duncan Robinson, like $90 million. I went to go look up if he's hurt. He's not hurt. He just doesn't even play. Max Truist took his job. I know.

They've got players. The point is they've got players on. players on players at that Miami team. And you want defense, you get old at EPO, you want shooting and you get Duncan Robinson. Right. And so Philly is in a world of crap because last night you saw 52 to 19 from that heat bench over Philadelphia. And just watching that game, I texted you in the middle of it. And you watch so many of these.

And there is a real edge. is a real playoff intensity that you can even feel watching these games. I felt absolutely none of that last night. I felt like the heat was just... Yeah, I just felt like the heat were screwing around and any time they wanted to strangle them out, they could. You know, I tweeted about this moment where they went into the huddle and Spolstra's like,

Been playing well. We've gotten it up to 13 a couple of times. He's like, get this thing up to 18 or 20, guys. And immediately the heat came out of that huddle and went on a 10-0 run. And it was, the lead was up to 18. And I'm thinking of myself, like, he gave them a mission to go do it. And they locked in for about three minutes. and the team couldn't score

and they were getting buckets on the other end. And so I really felt like any time they wanted to crank it up, they could. But what it led to was a game that was, as you said, super flat the whole night. Yeah, it was kind of a snooze fest. Yeah. And, you know, they are paying a lot of attention to Hardin.

The one big bright spot, I think, for maybe not the series and what it means for their success in the series, but rather going forward is certainly you feel amazing about Maxi and the way that he has been able to perform in these playoffs so far. And last night, with Hardin getting the extra attention, you got to have other guys step up. And it certainly was no fault of Maxis that they fell short last night because he drops 34. and I do think that you're probably sitting back going, all right, when we're thinking about this thing moving forward and we're going to try to build around and bead, we've got a really special perimeter player that is the kind of guy you want in the playoffs on our roster already.

And then it makes it a lot easier to build out around when you're trying to figure out what you're going to do with Hardin, what you're going to do with Tobias Harris's contract, etc, et cetera. Max is a big bright spot. 100%. No matter how the rest of this series goes for Philadelphia, everything Maxi's done all season long

in, you know, now in the playoffs, is indicative of a guy that this is what you needed. This is exactly what you needed. Is someone in the back court to come along and develop, that's why you drafted Markle Foltz. It's why you targeted some of the guys

did over the years. You wanted a Jimmy Butler in because you needed a permanent a ball handling presence. But the fact Maxi brings the ball handling with his speed, I mean, it's such a perfect contrast with Embed in with Hardin. It's just Hardin isn't bringing it as a score. That's the issue.

Maxi did provide the points that were needed without Joel and B. there. James Hardin, on the other hand, though, does not have the quickness off the dribble anymore. And of course, Miami, like we said at the top, was throwing some different looks at them. They're collapsing into the paint. They're double teaming at times too.

But Hardin just doesn't have the speed anymore. He doesn't have that burst. Maxie is the complete opposite end of the spectrum right now. He is the fastest. Hardin is the slowest out there. And at this point, Hardin, he just can't ramp it up as a score like he used to for Philadelphia in ways that maybe they were expecting or hoping or needing. Bringing in Bidback is going to provide them the pick and roll.

That's going to be a source of offense. at least gives him opportunity, but you need Hardin to dominate in isolations like he did before and he hasn't. Well, but here was the crazy thing, Kev. And you know, I have made a million jokes about James Harden and the playoffs and on and on. I thought in the first half, he came to play. He had a double-digit first half. He's like six to ten from the field.

First time and forever, he's got like 15 points. And it's not going unbelievably well for their team. but he's there for it. And then he comes out the second half. I think he's one for five in the second half. And he just quits. He just stops playing. It's 12 consecutive games now that in the playoffs where he has had less than 25 points.

And so that is obviously not just in Philadelphia. It's 12 consecutive, which is the longest of his career since his very first run in the playoffs with Oklahoma City, and that's over a decade ago. It was just crazy to me to watch last night because we've talked about they really need Hardin, Hardin needs to step up. And he was James Hardin in the first half. He was. You know, and then it was gone.

So I get the whole, they're defending him like this. He's lost the burst and all this. He was that guy for a half of basketball. And then it's like he wasn't even involved in the game in the second half. I had to go look up. I'm like, how many shots did he even take? He took five shots in the second half of the game and made one of them, which was a layup, no less.

Might have been a runout. But I don't know, man. I don't know. It's very, it's really hard for me to talk about because it's just, so foreign. We come to the playoffs every year and James Harden coming up small is just never a topic. And so it's just

this is an odd, it's odd for me to have to talk about this. Ha ha. Well, I mean, here's the difference though, Chris. Those past instances that you're talking about, Hardin is taking 20 plus shots and he's

getting where he wants on the floor and maybe the shots clanking off the him in the end, but he's still getting out of always. There's a lot of two for 11s in big games. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's like he's, he's still, he might be missing the shot at the end, but the burst and the quickness is just

not there right now, and nor is the aggression. Hardin just doesn't look like at all the same guy at this moment. Can he, can he retain that? Can he get that back next season? I don't know. I have no idea. He could be washed. Could be the hamstring injuries more major than we know. He could just be way out of condition because of the, the decisions he made at the beginning of the season during the off season.

Whatever the reason is, is he's not the same guy right now. He hasn't taken over 20 shots once with Philly because he doesn't look like a guy who's capable of doing that. If you're hardened and your current state, your playmaking is still there. You can create for others. You can pass. You can create open passing windows for teammates. But if you're hard and I think you're going to get pushed off the ball more often and just

continue to be more active like you've worked. back in your Oklahoma City days. Because if your offensive role isn't deserving of the significant usage that you have now, it's time to start doing some other stuff as well, especially with Embed back. Yeah. And hopefully we do get to see Joel Embed in this particular series. Let's hope so, or else it's going to be over pretty soon. Well, they're not beating that Miami.

They're not beating that Miami team four out of five games anyway. How many can they take with, let's say Embedg comes back and he's 100%. You know, the same guy we saw prior to this. Well, that's impossible. That's fantasy land. He can't be 100%. He's wearing a mask no matter what. Let's put it this way.

And his thumb needs surgery. Let me clarify. 100% physically with what he was before the concussion, 100% in terms of ability. Like, he's wearing the mask, 100% ability, is what I'm saying. Yeah, I just don't think he has. When you're wearing that mask and you've got a thumb. All right.

For the same conversation. If they had a great Joel Mb, they would be competitive. No percentage. Just a great Joe L&B. Yeah. Drop the 100%. Yeah, they might be able to win a couple games if they had a great Joe L&B. So you're saying maybe it goes six with Mbd if he returns game three.

Maybe, maybe. No guarantees there either. Yeah. You think they could take one, though? If they had a great Joe L.M.B., which I don't necessarily think, is the case. I think it's going to be very difficult. When you've got a guy that needs surgery

and is going to be wearing a mask and can't look at his phone yet, the idea that he's going to be able to just go out there and be amazing is pretty far-fetched to me. Yeah. And the other thing is, like I said, I felt like they were just screwing around.

The heat. They just weren't locked in at all and they put up whatever they did, 119. Well, they saw the Andre Jordan was starting again. I mean, yeah, they could put whoever they want. out there.

It really doesn't make a difference. Paul Reed, you know, his pick and roll coverage got exploited. Nyang is hurt, dealing with an injury. There's no answers for Philly.

Like, we can talk all we want about the plus minuses when they go small. There's no, there's no real answer. Oh, come on. It's like court mass,

Nyang, Paul Reed, Shake Milton, can't give you anything. DiBull, he's played 20 minutes. He doesn't even take a shot. Yeah.

Doesn't even take a shot. It's really rough. I mean, they have nothing to put in. They have nothing to put in the game. Yeah. And it's like, okay, so Joelle and B. comes back. Well, that moves DeAndre Jordan to the bench. Who gives a crap?

Like, you can bring them off the bed? You don't want to play him at all. It's unfortunate. But they just, they don't have the depth. You know, that's going to be the big task for Daryl in this offseason is to build out around Embed. and, you know, it really shows up with the heat. And on the heat on the other hand, the Oladipo thing is huge, Kev.

It really is. Because that's adding another guy that could come off that bench. And he's had a couple big games already. And it's just the way he looks out there. He looks, he does not look like a guy that is, we haven't seen play significant basketball in such a long time, though we know he is a guy that we haven't seen play significant basketball in such a long time.

He's fitting right in and he's having a lot of success. He's grinding on defense. Yeah. He's done a great job, man. Yeah. And also just like just seeing old evil perform well, knowing how long it's been and been in all the injuries he's had. It's just nice to see a guy come back and play important minutes for,

a team with finals hopes with Oladipo. Like he, he, Jimmy Butler misses that game. He slides into the starting lineup and has his best performance with Miami. He's sliding into a roll off the bench next to Hero and Martin and these other guys who bring that intensity

that he is right now. It's just cool to see that. And also for Spolstra, the amount of options he has on his team. Like, it's just, it blows my mind. And they're fine without Lowry. There will come a moment, though. that they need Dung and Robinson shooting.

Or, like, Lowry will be back, as you're just saying now. Yeah, you know, they're fine without Lowry for this series. Yeah. They'll need him against Milwaukee or Boston, though. Yeah, I agree. For their offense, for half court, they're going to have to have Lari. It makes you a little bit hopeful. You can never know the degree of which he is injured,

but I got to think it makes you a little bit hopeful when you see a guy like Devin Booker coming back and how devastatingly awesome he was last night. That is the second game that took place with Phoenix taking a 2-0 lead against the Dallas Mavericks and end up winning by 20 points, most of which, I mean, it's a six-point game going into the last quarter last night. and they just, I mean, it was an offensive masterpiece. They shot 84% in the fourth quarter. I mean, that is unheard of.

I don't care who you're playing against, much less a good defensive team in the playoffs, 84% in the fourth quarter and now, and they end up shooting 65% from the field for the game. It's just, I mean, that is ridiculous, Kevin. Absolutely ridiculous. I don't know how that's possible. Just ripped them apart.

Attacked Luca, attacked Cleva. It was really a lot of targeting them, specifically Luga. Chris Paul and David Booker, man. What else? else is there to say that we haven't said about those two guys before, particularly Chris Paul on that fourth quarter man, just really a savage, just a savage,

got it wherever we wanted on the court. Like we just said seeing Victor and Evil come back, it's still amazing to see Chris Paul still doing it at the level he does. How is it that Phoenix, like if you told me before the game, DeAndre Aiton's playing 18 minutes, four files, and then you told me,

guess what? Javelle McGee, 10 minutes, five files. I'm thinking something's wrong. If your two top bigs have nine total files and 28 minutes. But then Bismack, Biombo, able to play 18 off the bench, gave great minutes defensively, great effort, four for four from the field, and that block shot.

Yeah, I like, Phoenix's depth at this point is so far different than it was last season. When they lost to the bucks, They didn't have a lot behind eight, and now they have so many different options. And tonight's game was one of the many indicators of just how many different players they can turn to on their team and still have success. Well, and Chris Paul and his exploits are well known, even though at this point, at his age, it's getting ridiculous. He has a track record of his entire career, no matter if it's the bizback, beyond both of the world, or whoever he is playing with. Now, obviously, they have a lot of talent.

he just consistently makes people better. He truly makes everyone he plays with a better player. We saw a few years ago. He almost drugged that Oklahoma City team to a team with home court advantage. You know, and you can go back and look and you're like, holy mackerel, like how? And so it was a sign of things to come. Clearly, he's been amazing in Phoenix. thus far for them.

And unfortunately for the MAVs, he has been amazing versus them. I read this morning that in the fourth quarter of the playoffs this year, Chris Paul is shooting 64% from the field. And against the MAVs, Chuck Cooperstein, who is a MAVs broadcaster posted, Chris Paul in five games versus the Mavericks this year in the fourth quarter. 45 points, 18 of 32 shooting for 56%.

4 of 10 from 3, 5 of 5 from the free throw line. I mean, that's just the fourth quarters against that team. He's just been unbelievable. Absolutely unbelievable. And I do think, you know, as we talk about the other side, this does say something about Utah and how Dallas, you know, what we saw Dallas look like against that Utah team. and what a mess that Utah team was because they did a lot of the work without Luca in there.

And you're watching this series as the competitions get greater. I mean, you know, you're judging yourself against the best team. This is who you, this is the type of team you got to beat to achieve your goals. And I think that any objective observer sits back and goes, boy, you better find some better players to put around Luca because there's nobody else. There's nobody else to step up.

And the Brunson thing, you know, we were effusive in our praise about him. He's turned into a pumpkin. You know, he was averaging 28 points a game against the Jazz for a perimeter defense. He's averaging 11 against the sons. And the numbers are crazy because his field goal percentage without Luca, he was shooting 51% from the field and 41% from three.

Since Lucas come back, Brunson's shot 41% from the field and 30% from three. And you would think it would be easier, right? You would think it would be easier with Luca. Now, I know that you got to bake in the fact that, you know, you got to bake in the fact that you're playing Phoenix instead of frigging Utah. But those numbers are pretty alarming, for sure. With Brunson, Tim McMahon said he could get $20 to $25 million this offseason. If you're Dallas, based off what you've seen so far,

how comfortable do you feel in doing that? Because it's not just that he's not producing. He's also just not getting high usage anymore. He ran 12 pick and rolls last night. He was running in the high 20s and the 30s without Luca. And then it was in the high teens after Luca returned. And now it's dropped to 12. It was five in game one.

So he's just not running pick and roll. One of the things that he does best as a playmaker and a shot creator. Does Luca need to do have the ball less? Well, Luke is dominating despite having McKell Bridges over him all game long. So if you're really going to take the ball out of Lucas hands and give it to Jalen Brunson? it's a tough problem here for Dallas because I think that would help Brunson having a screener and a pick and roll action and Luke off ball but is he good enough to warrant that that's that's the difficulty here for Dallas especially with that contract coming up so I mean

to bring it back to that 20 to 25 million how do you feel about that right now for Dallas assuming they lose the series they move forward absolutely not not with the way the rest of my roster looks. So you're trying to sign and trade them in that case then. Yeah. Yeah. I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't spend $25 million, $20, $25 million on Brunson. I just think there's a better use of that money. I'm trying to build a team around Luca, right? And I'm a Jalen Brunson fan, but I don't have a second guy. for Luca right now.

They tried it with KP. It didn't take. Right? So now I've got to use those funds. I've got to, that's my mission. I got to find a second guy for Luca, somebody that can.

You know, because the high usage thing, Rasillo did a huge show about this in the middle of season. It doesn't bode well for postseason basketball. Russ Iverson. You know, Harden. Yep.

You know what I mean? It's very difficult. It's very difficult when the usage is extremely high for one particular play. And while that one particular player might get really good stats, and Lucas been amazing, right? What does it mean for the rest? And you certainly need a second guy there. And so I would be, I think that's the best utilization of money. If I thought Brunson could be that second guy, it's a different story.

but I got an unbelievable contract with Dorian Finney Smith already. You know, he's one that I want in that mix. I do want him as part of the team, and I've got him on a good contract. And now I've got to figure out what is the best kind of second best player on my team, you know, role. Is it a big guy? Is it another perimeter guy? I'm unsure of, you know, the exact way I'd want to build with Luca, but I don't have a second best player.

I don't. I think a lot of it would have to do with what is Luca willing to do? Because I remember the first year with KP, I was in Dallas. I interviewed Luca. I talked to Donnie Nelson, talked to, you know, a bunch of different people. Donnie Nelson, I talked to him about, hey, like, with Luca,

if you guys are able to develop or find a great perimeter guard, do you think that opens up new dimensions of Lucas' game, like screening actions, off ball cutting, having someone else who can, you know, handle the ball in the perimeter, run or pick and roll? And he's like, absolutely, that allows us to get into so many different actions with Luca.

You can plug him in as a screener and have him short roll and his playmaking will still be activated in the half court. You know, Donnie Nelson's all excited about that. I remember then I asked Luca about it. And the way I framed the question to Luca was like, well, I was talking to Donnie Nelson about this. Like, if you're screening in a Draymond role

and Luca kind of looked at me like, what? I'm like the point guard. Like he just kind of gave me a look like B? Like in that role? I don't think so. He didn't say that outright, but just I'm always, remember to look on his face. Like, you're not taking the ball out of my hands.

So with that said, like, I love the idea. And I'm curious of what, what did you think about this, Chris? What if they were to go hard with multiple draft picks after Damien Millard? What do you think about that fit with Luca, giving up like three plus first round picks? No. No? Not after the injury, not at his age.

And I just think the ball needs to be in Lillard's hands to get the best out of Lillard. I think you've got two guys that are going to be controlling the ball for the most part. You know what I'm most fascinated in? And there's a lot of smoke around this when you talk to people. I'm most fascinated in your old buddy in Utah. I think that's absolutely possible. Gobert. So we're thinking opposite ends of the spectrum.

I just throw Damien Lillard and you're throwing Rudy Gaubert. Yeah. I know. But I think they, you know, there have been talks about them having great interest in Gobert. Yeah, as they should. And the idea that, you know, certainly for all my criticisms of Gobert, he helps you on the, you're targeting Luca front like you saw last night. You were talking about, you know, they're just going to try to, anybody that you could try to target on defense, you know, go bear is helpful to have behind.

And the other thing is, you know, does he start being able to finish a lot more? Is it just, you know, a dunk fest with him? Because we know that Luca could run that high pick and roll. And now, I mean, it becomes very simple basketball. And he's running around the corner. And you can either blame Gobert or you can blame those guards in Utah for his lack of success. I know he's not a guy you throw the ball to and create a shot. But if we're just talking about finishing lobs,

which is something he didn't even do all that much, except for the game winner. But, I mean, that game winner is a sign of what he can do, right? And how it actually becomes effective on the offensive end. I, you know, I don't think that that's foolishness for them to, for them to be thinking long and hard about that. I could actually see that taking place for sure. I don't know how you get there.

I don't know what you give up. But the fact that they have interest in it is fascinating to me. Is this going to be a sweet? You know, maybe gentlemen, right? Dallas could get. I always think. Any chance it's two, too? I would be shocked.

I'd be shocked at 2-2. I certainly would not be shocked if they were able to win game 3. You know, we talked about this so much. Psychologically, when you are down 02 in a series, your back is against the wall. Your whole season's on the line. And these teams can say, yeah, well, we're here to get to. We want to go for the jugular all they want.

But you got one team that's going out there that feels like their whole seasons on the line. And the other team that's comfortable. They've got a 2-0 lead. If they lose this one, they'll win the next one. Then they can go win game five at home. And we've seen that happen a million times over the years. And so I'll never be surprised if any team is able to get the first home game of the series.

But them getting both of those games, yes, I would be very surprised by that. I just watched a team shoot 84% in a frigging quarter. quarter cap. I don't know. 84%. They score 40 points in the fourth quarter. That's insane. It's insane. And that's game too. That's after some adjustments are theoretically made.

You know? I like their adjustments. That's what I'd say. Phoenix can beat you so many different ways, man. They're devastating. Yeah. Really. They're the new favorite.

again now that David Booker's back. Oh, and Devin Booker looked like Devin Booker last night. I mean, that's what we said weeks ago, wasn't it? If Booker comes back, well, okay, Phoenix is the pick again in the West. Yeah. You were getting the full Devin Booker experience, though.

He didn't look, you know, he looks recovered. Yeah. I guess it's the best way to say it. So, yeah, I don't think either of those ones we watched last night are, I think I'd be surprised if I saw a game six in either of them, honestly. You think we're seeing a game six in either one of those series? I'd say no right now.

We don't know about Joel and Bede. We don't know yet. And then with Phoenix, they are a Gernardite, man. Fortunately, in the other two, it certainly looks like we're going to get long series. The first of which is Boston, and then evening it up against Milwaukee. And for all the grousing about Boston

and them getting beat up in game one against Milwaukee, that was a hell of a response. And a hell of a response from Jalen Brown, who was miserable in game one and then absolutely fantastic in game two. And we talked about in the individual games, who's going to be the best guy? I mean,

Grant Williams. Janice's guy in game one. And then he had Drew Holiday come along with him. And because of some guys being a part of things. And then you saw Jalen Brown, I mean, he was just seeing dead red in that first half. It was unbelievable, unbelievable. And so now it's, now you're playing this thing out.

I kind of feel like we're going to get a seven gamer in that one. I do. So that wasn't much of a cause for pause then, game one. I mean, I think it was cause for pause in terms of winning the series because they could be, you know, anytime you lose the home court against another really good team, that's you put yourself in a difficult position. but once you even it up, now it's not impossible. You know, I always think of it the way of, okay, do I think that team can win four out of five games against their opponent versus do I think that team can win three of the next five games?

Can they go three and two against that opponent? And as we know, three and two is way more doable than four out of five. And so Boston's right back in it for sure. And I think this thing is going to go back and forth. I think Boston just needs to hope they're not in a position where they could lose a game six and lose the series. They need to be up three, two, after five games. Remember during the season when we were talking about Boston

and you brought up the point like, well, this is a short bench, not a lot of depth. I thought it was, you know, Udoka is not messing around. He went with a seven-man rotation in that game, too. Like, he is not screwing around one bit about the guys that he's choosing to play. Like, Grant Williams playing 35 minutes. Like, it was one of the best games he's ever played. It probably was the best game he ever played.

How about him talking crazy to Janus, too? Oh, dude, he. I was like, whoa, this guy. This guy. I mean, that's pretty bold, man. Yeah, I love it. That's not a bear I would poke. But, hey, when you're playing like he was, you can do whatever you want.

Well, listen, like Grant Williams, he's strong. He's got the strength to handle some of those drives by Janus. He's smart and incredibly intelligent defender, hustles hard. He brings grit to the floor. Grant Williams has all those intangible qualities you want, in addition to having just a pure basketball talent to defend. And Boston in that game, too, did such a better job of helping off those Miami shooters, those Milwaukee shooters, you know, picking and choosing,

when to overhelp against Janus drives, when to stay home. it just seemed like a Celtics roster was far more prepared after the game one experience. With that said, though, you know, we know how this game is. Milwaukee's only 3 of 18 from 3, 16.7%. You're not going to win many games like that. And Boston on the flip side is 20 of 43, 46.5%. Some of this was just Boston was red hot from 3. And Milwaukee wasn't taking a lot of 3s.

only 18 and they just weren't making any of them at all at only at three. Some of it is just that. It's just a make or miss. But I do think in terms of like tactical adjustments, Boston made some slight, you know, adjustments on defense and even on offense, so much more driving kick to get those open opportunities. So I think it's translatable for Boston. Like, how much of it do you think is just like make miss versus Boston adjusted in a really

positive way? Well, I think that to your point, if you shoot 47% from 3 at a high volume, you're going to be very difficult to beat no matter who you are. Yeah. Right. And they were able to do that. The, and coming into this series when we did the show last Friday, I said, here's what Milwaukee does. Here's how good they are at stopping twos. The question for Boston is, are they going to be able to make enough threes for,

to open that up to make them pay for playing the way they do. And they took 53s in the first game, and they took 43-3s in the second game. That is not, they are not that volume of a three-point shooting team. And yet there was this acknowledgement of, we've got to be able to, we've got to be able to open this up, we've got to be able to space this out and knock these down. And so there's part of me that wonders,

is it really just going to be dependent upon that? You know? Is it going to be dependent upon? Are they making a decent percentage of their threes? Or are they not making a decent percentage of their threes? Because you're not going to make your living from two-point range and certainly at the rim. Right? And so how much of it is does Boston make their threes or not?

And you could say that of many Milwaukee opponents. They were 30th in the league in terms of the amount of points they gave up from three point range. And so it's kind of like they let you do this. They decide, okay, here's the process of what we want. We think we're going to close out enough and you're going to miss enough. That's that there's going to be a variance there. And over the course of seven games, it's going to play out our way. We'll see if they're right or not, right?

This is going to be a great series. Yes. We're getting more great basketball games. And regarding Grant, he's so damn strong. Yeah. I think that's what we're learning about the Janus thing. That's the biggest component that you have to, the prerequisite, to being able to deal with himself.

Honest is being strong, being able to hold your ground. Because otherwise, he's just a friggin monster. and he just he bullies you right and so I'll say that on Grant Williams behalf he's a strong guy who can stand his ground

I don't know what do you think from the Boston side you think that they you think have you flipped in terms of opinion on the series and how you think it's going to play out based upon the second game

I mean I pick Boston ahead of it I think I'd still stick with Boston and seven. You would. Yeah. I think it's very good chance that we get a seventh game. But as I said, I think the Celtics need to be up rather than down three, two. No Middleton in that game two felt more of like an issue for Milwaukee than in game one.

Well, yeah, because Grayson Allen had five points. Right? Grayson Allen's been like actually buckets for them. It's just there were times it would have felt nice. go to a Middleton, Giannis pick and roll. And they weren't, and they don't have that in their pocket. Yeah. And Giannis struggled, right?

Like, I mean, it's pretty simple stuff. If he's dominating you, you got a real problem on your hand. When he's taking 27 shots to get his 28 points, you'll sign up for that every day. Yeah. Every day. Right. Boston causing a bit of that, too. Of course.

Yeah. Of course they were. You know, they had a very good game. And he turned the ball. over six times. Right? See, I mean, you get him to miss 16 shots and have six turnovers. You sign up for it.

It was a great job by them for sure. All right, Warriors Grizzlies. John Moran has 47, 8, and 8 scores the last 15 grizzlies points. Do you have hearing damage from how loud it was? I mean, it was. Are you good? It was outrageous. You know, we talked about sometimes where you're in those places.

You talk about this being in the Boston Garden. Yeah. When you're a little, and it's like a rock concert. It's just so overstimulating. I didn't go to, I didn't fall asleep until 3 a.m. I just couldn't. I couldn't. It was just so, it's just so bright and so loud and so, like,

and then you just can't believe what you just saw. And, you know, you're around. you're in the midst of 18,000 people that are like screaming and yelling and euphoric, you know, running out of an arena, dancing on the freaking concourse and all this crap. I mean, it's just, it's rather overstimulating. But as you watch that game,

what do you make of that series now? There was a lot of talk this week about the warriors needing to target John Morant more often. I think that might be a little easier said than done. And the reason why I say that is because anytime they are bringing Morant into the screening action, the Grizzlies more often than not are pressuring. Like if it's Seth Curry and the pick and roll, they're showing or blitzing a little bit

to try to get the ball out of his hands. They're not just giving up the switch all the time. With that said, I do think Golden State needs to do more targeting against Jha. We saw how much Phoenix went at Luca with on ball and off ball actions. If you're the Golden State Warriors moving forward in the series, I would think you're going to be targeting John Morant more often, but that's not a Steve Kerr thing. He doesn't, he historically doesn't like to do that.

Yeah. It's not the, and there's two things about Steve Kerr and the way they play that sometimes you're watching it and you go, well, you're really just going to stick to your guns here. One of them is that, just not going out of their way to target. Yeah. a guy or a weakling.

Steve Kerr just likes to play. Just play. The other is on defense. For the life of me, I'll never know how they just allowed it to space out an ISO. Just guys taking turns trying to guard Morant and getting scored on over and over again. I mean, I would just, I mean, if the Anthony Melton beats me, then so be it. If Zaire Williams beats me, then so be it. If these other guys beat me, so be it.

Especially in the absence of Jaron Jackson Jr. on the court, if they beat me so be it. But I'm just not going to let these guys take turns and get scored on. I'm getting the ball out of that guy's hands. And there's absolutely no effort to do that. It was bizarre to me. Yeah. They trapped them once and Jai almost turned the ball over.

Remember the play? I put it in my video this week. But he was falling over. the half court line, you know, whips the ball over his head and eventually that finds itself in Sayre Williams, he hits a three. But I remember seeing that play thinking, hmm, you know, I wonder if they're going to

start ramping up the pressure. Didn't do it again. Yep. Didn't do it again. And I think of your goal in state, that's we're right here. It's, it's both, both ends here. It's, are you going to target John more and are you going to pressure him more in the pick and roll when he has the ball on his hands or even if he's just

isoing, shading a guy over, helping more, forcing someone else to beat you because Jaws getting where he wants. They have that Gary Paiton's out for the rest of the series, which, you know, that's unfortunate. Horrendous. Yeah, it's terrible. And there were a lot of fans that were like,

you know, what do you think about that? I think it's horrendous. It was a reckless play by Dylan Brooks. Incredibly reckless play. And that kind of stuff can happen. And it's wildly unfortunate that that takes place. And I don't think that, he was trying to take the guy out or injure him.

I mean, if you go back to watch. Neither do I. Dylan Brooks stunk in game one. Absolutely stunk. He comes out in game two and he smokes two wide open threes in a row. He's one of those guys that's got the temper and he gets mad at himself. So he's so frustrated. He does something stupid out of frustration.

And next thing you know, he costs himself that game. Who knows about a suspension? And obviously with the way Gary, Peyton landed, it was awful, awful. I hate it. I'm a Peyton fan. I wanted to watch Gary Payton play in this series. I, you know, you know, in our show on Tuesday.

You know, he's one of the pool and him were the two players I highlighted from game one as guys that super impressed me. And so it sucks. It sucks. Speaking about pool, you were right about the death lineup. Memphis is doing a good job at exploiting that. Some of the holes targeting Jordan Poole on defense. Clay is not the same guy on defense either. Obviously, Steph is going to have his ceiling with his size on defense.

It's just Memphis has just done a great job, period. It's a bad matchup for Golden State. It is in a lot of different ways because they bring to the table that that small lineup plays into what Memphis actually becomes more successful at. And I have infinite respect for Clay Thompson, but, and I know he hit the big three in game one, bro, he has been a mess, a mess in the first two games. And it's not just like his defense, his defense used to be like all the level.

He'd be in the conversation for it. Right now it's not horrible necessarily, but it's not all D. It's somewhere in between. And I think also offensively, he's pressing. some shots out of the flow of the offense. And the third quarter, he had the consecutive possessions with a pull-up two with like

20 seconds on the shot clock contested. Then the next play, it was like with 12 seconds on the shot clock with some open passing opportunities. It's just like, like Clay, you got to, you got to move the ball. He's taking far too many contested jumpers off the dribble. So it's on both ends for him as well. Certainly after the way game three played or game two played out with Morant's exploits. the injury, everything else.

I mean, you've got to imagine Golden State is going to be absolutely out for blood in game three. Yeah. I mean, really. Like, you're going to be walking into an absolute Hornets Nest if you're Memphis against that Golden State team. And

maybe Clay, you know, with everybody cheering for him, it's a different deal, feels a little more comfortable at home, and he's got a long track record of being a great player. Maybe you know, snaps out of it. But you just expect like, hey,

if they got Curry, they got Clay, they got Dreybond, you can plug a play around them and they're going to be outstanding. But this is not the scary clay of years past. And frankly, it's not the scary lineup of years past

that they can, that they bring off and is just devastating. And one of the things I said when we did it last week was it informed the league. That's a long time ago now. 2015, seven seasons ago. You know? And I think the league started to value a lot of things, the positionless basketball, being able to play small, being able to go five out.

And at that time, it wasn't the same. when they brought that to the table, you had no chance of matching up with it. And so it's almost like your success causes your troubles. Because now everybody looked to you as kind of like the model. And this is how you can really be devastating. And you see all these teams going five wide now, or a lot of them for sure, and playing small ball.

And if you can't play small ball, you're kind of in trouble, you know. So we're talking small ball. Stephen Adams will be back soon. Are we going to see him in the series? Or are they going to stick with what they're doing with Tillman Clark? Think Looney minutes, probably. They didn't do much Looney last game.

No, no, only nine minutes for Looney. Yeah. I think if your goal is said, if I'm a Warriors fan, I want to see Cominga unlocked. He's just such a nice variable throwout. out there, defensive size. If you are going to be pressuring John more often, he can help in that regard around the rim, just providing, you know, more resistance with his length.

I just wonder if we see more of him. Maybe a little moody, too? You know? I mean, maybe I'm saying in the absence of Gary Payton, like you're trying to figure out, okay, is there other guys that are going to participate in this? You know, got super long wingspan. maybe he could get some minutes.

And they're talking about Iguodala coming back, who's got a lot, despite his lack of success this year, he's got a lot of playoff minutes logged with that same group. He might be able, I don't know, you think he's just done

or you think he, that's actually something helpful that could show up. Could be helpful, yeah. It could be helpful. He's strong. Strong guy. Do rebound. He's not going to shoot me out of

the game keeps the ball moving um well how about um well how about the flip side there are how worried are you are you about desmond bain five points two of seven did appear definitely limited with the injury he has would be much more uh worried if not for this goofy NBA schedule which is actually going to help tremendously come the next game saturday i mean it's crazy Saturday. To go from a Tuesday night game to not playing Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday, and then Saturday night, like, it was an injury that he was obviously able to play through. And so now when you're giving that kind of a break and rest, I would imagine that you're probably going to get Desmond Bain back to feeling good.

But if it were every other day type thing, you'd be. you'd be in trouble. Because he was obviously not himself. Yeah. Now you're giving the kid four days to rest up, right? Yeah. I'm so ready for that game three. Oh, it'll be great.

It'll be great. I'm ready for it. I wish it was tonight. Speaking of back injuries, were you surprised to see the Ben Simmons story yesterday about the back surgery? I think with back issues, it's a little surprising in some ways. You know, I'm sure he and they wish that they got the surgery done a while ago. But with back surgeries, it's kind of a last resort.

You don't want to get back surgery. You want to see if you can fix an issue without surgery. I know friends who have back issues where that's the case. And it's like just a matter of, well, let's see. what we can do before it comes to surgery. Maybe that was the case with Ben Simmons where they just determined a thing, you know what, let's just do it.

Let's just do the surgery. It is very difficult. I know many people that are worrisome about it. You know my longtime producer, locally, Roser, he had back surgery about, I don't know, a month and a half ago.

He had to get another one last week. Really? Last week he had to get another. So we're talking about within two months of each other. You know. The complications, that type of thing? Yeah, it was just, no, I mean, it was, I guess,

in the middle of the recovery, there was a re-herniation that was bothersome. And so he was back to in pain. They went and did another MRI. And so it's just, it's very difficult. It's very, and this is not, you know, as you know, he's not a professional athlete, right?

but it's always, you know, yeah, there are guys that have come back from it and have been fine and have gone on to have very successful careers post back surgery. But it is always a very scary thing to get into. And I guess I would just say this. Regarding that being that story coming out yesterday, Kevin, I'll never for the life of me understand the messaging with him. And I do think it, I'm not going to excuse anybody that criticized him because they can, they can make up their own mind. And we criticize them too, right?

And I know that there were people yesterday calling for like, oh, everybody needs to apologize to Ben Simmons now. Like, look, we are at the mercy of the messaging. And if I do think that there is something that is clear, it is that the messaging surrounding Ben Simmons has been horrid. Just absolutely horrid. It has. Like, when you lead people to believe that he's out there,

he's playing, and he's going to play in the playoffs, and then the next story is it's not even about his back. It wasn't even about it. It was he's not ready to play. You know?

Like, this would be an easy thing to just say, Hey, yo, this dude's back is for real messed up, messed up to the point where he needs to get surgery. Everybody in the free world would have been like, damn. You know, like totally understandable. Good luck to him. But it was like he's going to play.

He's feeling great and going to play. And then it was he had this meeting. He doesn't feel ready to play. and then the whole mental hurdle stuff came up. You remember that got thrown in, so it wasn't just physical as the reason he wasn't playing. And then, you know, the story comes out yesterday. Hey, the guy's getting back surgery.

You're like, what the aft? Like, I just don't, why didn't you just say this guy is like for real injured to the point where instead we went through he's hurting, but now he's rehabbed and he's feeling great. and he's targeting this game to play. And then the reason he wasn't going to play, could it just very simply be his back's not responding well? And it's the point where he's going to have to get surgery.

And everybody would have been like, oh, wow, that's crazy. Well, I mean, they didn't say that because they didn't know it then about him getting surgery or needing surgery. But how was he able to targeting to play is my point. pain tolerance. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. If you're the Nets,

if you're Kevin Durant, especially, I'm like, geez, we're going to win with this guy next year? I don't know. That's just the,

that's just the thought of my mind. Well, the other thing was, does this go away? Does this go away now? Right. That's the fear. He's 611, too,

you know? He's a tall guy. Yeah, exactly. And also, like, for Ben Simmons, so much of what makes him a great player defensively, the versatility he has, the speed in the open court is, it stems from his athleticism.

And like even if you're a non-athletic person, you know, you don't want back pain. But if you're a professional athlete of Ben Simmons caliber with his style, you definitely cannot have back issues. So in that way, I'm worried about what version of Ben Simmons will see once he return. But hopefully the surgery goes great. Hopefully he's able to improve mentally and physically and come back next season to be the Ben Simmons we saw before or better. Hopefully that's the case. But there's a whole lot of uncertainty thrown him through the equation now when you're talking about back surgery. That's scary, man.

It is. It is scary. And this uncertainty has just been, I don't know, man, this whole story. Like, I even remember when we talked about it and it was a lot of, like the same people that have been reporting on this the entire time are writing the nets players front office etc everybody involved are very frustrated with this oh yeah well i mean and also i mean they wouldn't be very frustrated about a guy not playing it be i just don't get it no i i think are they like the worst people in the world

no i i think i think there's still i think there still could have been frustration like even if you knew oh he's probably going to have offseason surgery oh you can't play through it now I still think there'd be people who think that. But within the organization? Yeah, that's what I mean. It's like, oh, it's about managing it now and then you get your thing done during the offseason. I think that's some people would still think that.

Right or wrong. Right or wrong. I'm just saying. No, and as I say, the messaging was not, this guy's got very serious backpane. Yeah. That's why he's not playing. Right?

There were other reasons given, which led to, a lot of people lining up to criticize, right? And so I'm not making excuses for anybody that criticizes. They can make their own judgments. I'm just saying, this has all just been so strange, so strange. All of it is. Yeah.

Before we get out of here, I do want to mention one thing because I saw it this morning. You know, I don't know Dave Benz personally, who is the play-by-play announcer for the Minnesota Timberwolves. but I read the story by our buddy John Cresensky this morning and I saw Dave Benz's tweet about after 10 years with the Timberwolves that they're moving on from him and then I read the article

he's heartbroken about the whole thing and so I just want to send our well wishes to Dave as I don't know him I messaged him personally just to let him know I'm a fan of his and you know sometimes though it doesn't seem at the time that when your world gets turned upside down, sometimes it ends up being, and most times it ends up being the best thing for you

in the long run. And you get to look back on that. But absolutely shocking to me that the T-Wolves would move on. Because you and I spend our lives trying to keep up with the NBA as best we can. We'll never know as much as the fans of those teams. Yeah. But part of that is regularly watching League Pass. And that T. Wolves announcing team of Benz and Peterson is one that it stands out.

It stands out. One of the best. Yeah. Chemistry-wise, spirit, you know, enthusiasm. Yeah, one of the best. And I think you're right, Chris. There are times in all of our lives where I think, you know, we realize sometimes you make a decision or something happens to you in the moment. where you think it's a horrible thing.

And it can turn out, you know, oh, this sent me down this path for a real positive, you know, next chapter. And there's other times in your life where sometimes you make the right decision and it turns out to be the wrong decision in your own choosing and your own control. Like what you think in the moment,

what is best or worse for you, isn't always the case. And for him, I hope from here, it leads to more great opportunities because you're right. He's great at what he does. He's really good at what he does. And I hate losing that announcing team because that's not easy to have real chemistry, right?

They're obviously friends. Yep. They're obviously friends, you know, and it comes through. It's something, you know, as I watch it, it's something that you and I have tried to allow to come through. Like, you're friends. Yeah. So you hope that when people listen to this, that they, they see it. We're not just two guys that grab a microphone to start talking to each other about stuff.

And, you know, I hate that an NBA announcing team like that where there's so many, in media, there's so many arranged marriages, right? But sometimes those arranged marriages become great. And I feel for the guy, he'll land on his feet because he's good at what he does. But I don't know, man, especially after they just had that really great year. I know. I know. I'm sure like a young fan of the team.

You know, I, I'm just like the way, the way I'm thinking about it in my head, you can only like personal experience. I just can't imagine like if Tommy Hineson and Mike Gorman had been broken up like a, you know, when I was 12 years old.

Oh, yeah. Different, different because those guys have been together for decades already. But, yeah, like it's great to have a home announcing pair that kids at home, you know,

with their parents or friends or family can watch together. And, and, the story of the game. And they become synonymous with franchise. Yeah, exactly. They do. Exactly. And I feel the same, Chris. I'm very thankful to do this show with you.

It's a blessing to do it with you. We've gotten lucky. For sure. Yeah. I love talking basketball with you, Chris. You've gotten lucky. I'm excited for these games. Get one night off. Okay, last thing before we get out of here, what will you watch tonight?

I am so fascinated by this answer. What will you watch? I don't know. I haven't thought about it. Are you in the middle of anything? No. Do you think, are you more likely to watch something on television because there's no basketball or pick up a game controller and kill people?

Well, that's an everyday thing. Kevin O'Killard. I mean, today. Today, I know I'm recording a couple of podcasts today. I'm doing the low posts today. So I'm going to be on with Zach. I'm doing that. I know I'm going to take some naps today.

I didn't get a lot of sleep last night. So I'm going to take some naps at some points. I'm probably going to play some war zone at some point. That's inevitable. It's an everyday thing. Not lying. It's the place to go escape. It's the place to go think of ideas.

Some of my best article ideas, like sometimes I'll play solos where it's just me in that game like late night I'll be like 11.30 12 p.m. at night 12 a.m. in the morning and like I'll just be thinking of basketball story ideas or I'll be thinking about the series that we just watched earlier in the night while I'm in the world of war zone you know. No, I'm serious. Like some of my better ideas have come in that world. So like with all the hours logged, a lot of that is I'm working in the virtual world. Just thinking. It's a place to go.

Have you broken a controller? No. I mean, if I did, like, I don't remember, I was for, like, 13 years old. I don't, I don't remember, though. I don't think I've ever broken a controller, like, personally. I mean, my headset right now is broken from overuse, but it's not. It's not because you chucked it. You're not a temperate guy.

I'm not a, I'm never been like that. When you get shot, you just yell the F word. Yeah, I definitely yell. I definitely yell and scream and moan and complain. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

Yeah, maybe I'll play that with my friends later tonight. It's also a good place to hang out with your friends. That's one thing. That's one thing. Like, I'm curious. Like, have you, with your friends during the peak of the pandemic, like 2020, 2020, 2021, did you ever do, like, Zoom hangouts with your friends? Because for me, we never did Zoom hangouts.

we played like Call of Duty. That's where we talked and it was a place to hang out with my friends back home too. No. No, you never did Zooms with like college friends or anything like that. I got two kids, bro. I know, I'm just curious. Yeah, no. I've got group text with them.

Yeah, group text. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I play golf with them. That's what I do with my friends. That's about it. Okay. All right. You know what I mean? Like, yeah.

I mean, I'm just curious. Like if there's any friends that live out of state or anything like that, maybe a phone call or texts, I guess is that suffices. Yeah. Same here. Like, we never did Zoom. I don't need to see their faces. Oh, hey.

You know, and this is a big, hey, I don't know. This is a huge thing in the NBA, and I think it's part of the younger generation. But there are guys within the NBA. I don't know if you have this, like either assistant coaches or training, like people involved in the NBA players too.

You know, they all FaceTime each other. That's how they talk. Yeah, they face time. That's how they communicate. Yeah. And man, it makes me, it gives me the willies. I don't know, man. Why?

They all face, I don't know. They just all FaceTime each other. You don't like to just pick up the phone and go straight to FaceTime? That's how they talk to each other. They FaceTime each other. You know what I mean? I mean, it's an incredible piece of technology. I know it is.

It is. The fact that, like, you, I can be like, you know, walking by, you know, Santa Monica. I can, I can be the Pacific Palisades Park. I can be walking there. and I could FaceTime you, you know, at your home in Memphis. I just feel like, I don't know, man. I feel like in order to love FaceTime, I got to look different. I don't like looking at my own face on there.

Well, you can slide your face over. You know, like when you hit that, you know, like if you're on Instagram and you swipe on accident and the damn reverse screen comes up and you're like, Jesus. Well, no, well, Chris, like when you're FaceTime, you can swipe your face to the side, so you can get rid of it. I don't know how to do all that. I will, though. Ask one of your kids to help you.

Yeah, I'm going to. All right. So people with the Grizzlies will FaceTime you, like just out of nowhere. People with other teams too. Yeah. Yeah. Nobody facetimes me out of the blue. They don't.

No. I don't get face-times. I get one person who's FaceTime me a couple of times. That's her name. No, no, no. I'm saying it. I'm going to FaceTime you out of nowhere. Yeah, the only person I have FaceTime is my mom.

That's it. There you go. All right, that's going to do it for today's show. Thank you to listen to the mismatch as always. Thanks to our executive producer Jesse Lopez. Kevin, I will talk to you next week. Have a good one, everybody.