The Mismatch - A Close MVP Race, the Nobody Paolo, a New Top Prospect, and Can the Sixers Knock Off the Celtics?

Episode Date: April 12, 2024

Verno and KOC open up the episode by discussing Stephon Castle’s rise to no. 1 on KOC’s draft board (01:36). Next, they dive into everyone’s favorite segment: "That’s True, That Might Be True, That’s Ridiculous" (10:25). They discuss Jrue Holiday’s extension with the Celtics, debate whether this will be the last year we see Trae Young in a Hawks uniform, Luka Doncic’s MVP chances, how much pressure is on the Suns, and so much more. Got a question for Verno and KOC? Send them an email at [e-mail]! Or you can send the guys a tweet @ChrisVernonShow and @KevinOConnorNBA! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please checkout rg-help.com to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

There are a lot of quarterbacks in the NFL draft this year. My name is Danny Kelly, and I host the Ringer NFL Draft Show with Danny Hyfitz, Ben Solak, and Craig Boralbeck. We cover trades, free agency, and the draft, obviously. We'll tell you about everything, including which quarterbacks are good, which quarterbacks are not as good, and which quarterbacks are just Kirk Cousins. Search, the Ringer NFL Draft Show on Spotify. Welcome to The Misfatch. I'm Chris Vernon, and joining me on this Thursday afternoon from The Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor,

a.k.a. Kevin O. Bomber. Kevin O. Conflict. Kevin O. Candyland. Kevin O. Blasarian. Kevin O. Burdo. How are you doing today, man? Masters update? Like you going viral again like you do every year around this time. Super popular guy. I am glad that people look forward to the master's updates. My voice does not look forward to the master's updates. I'm hopeful that I can get through it. and I'm getting older, man. They're not as easy as they used to be. I used to have a lot more energy. Now I'm like in recovery mode after trying to update people on what is going on in the most famous golf tournament of the year.

Our podcast is about the NBA, though. So let's get right to it. And that is the first thing I want to get to is post-national championship game in college basketball. I noticed there is a new number one ranked player on Kevin O'Connor's big board. It seems like a member of that Yukon Husky's team did enough to impress you that you moved him all the way up to number one on your board, Stefan Castle. Tell me about it. So I moved Stefan Castle up to number one.

He's there. Freshman guards six foot six. He'll be 19 and a half years old on draft day. I'm at number four back in August, and then when he missed the start of the season, I bumped him down to eight, up to six before March Madness, and then I moved him up the two by the end of March Madness. I'm moving him at number one right now. I've always liked Castle, and I think we saw the reasons why throughout the tournament, especially the second half of the season once he started getting in a rhythm. He doesn't currently have the most reliable

jump work. That is his weakness, and it is easily the strongest argument against him being the number one pick in the draft, considering the importance for any player and any position to have a shot. However, under the assumption that that does improve, which I believe it can, he's been close to 90% from the free throw line in the second half of the season. He's been a very good shooter on floaters and these kind of these touch, tough contested layups going back to high school. I have belief in him as a shooter. But even without that, we saw it in the tournament with Alabama sagging off of him. The way he hit the open jump. They used him as a screener, getting him going towards the basket, the way he can pass the ball, the way he can finish at the rim, the way he can defend, fighting through screens and sticking to opposing really good guards and creators.

Castle has versatility. He's a great teammate. He's selfless. He's a good finisher at the basket. He's willing to do what is necessary to compete. And I have belief that his shot will at least at some point reach a competent level. So for now, I have him number one. that could definitely change throughout the pre-draft process.

We'll see how his shot develops over the next handful of months. But for right now, I've always liked Castle. I've had him in my top eight throughout the entire pre-draft process. For right now, I'm going to put him at number one over some other guys that are having some shaky, have had shaky seasons or have similar question marks. There's no certainty at number one this year. Okay, so let me play off of that. Regarding the no certainty,

How many guys do you think could be in the midst for the number one pick in this draft? This is feeling very Anthony Bennett Victor Oladipo draft-esque in terms of most people did not have Anthony Bennett as the number one pick. And then I remember Jeff Goodman, in fact, like reported about Anthony Bennett possibly going to be the number one. pick in this draft and everybody was like, wait, what? Like, we've gone through this entire mock draft season. And he hasn't been the number one guy on most people's boards to go number one. And then it was like within the day that the draft came now that just became the reality. And so though people weren't talking about that going in, that's what ended up becoming

reality where it was really a free-for-all. It probably could have been a bunch of different guys depending on Eye of the Beholder. How about in this one? How many possible guys could you see going number one? Well, let's first go back to that 2013 draft for context there

because I think I just pulled up my rankings from 2013. There were five guys that year that I think had a chance to go number one. My top 10 was number 10, Shabazz Muhammad, number nine, Yana Sanda Dekoumpa. Can I take a quick time out? Sure.

Shabaz Muhammad a week and a half ago. Really? Oh my God. He's in the G League. He started a fight. You saw him play live or like on TV? No, no. I saw the clip because it was started a fight. Well, you know, my producer, my producer calls the Memphis Hustle Gang.

So Rosa was there calling the game. Maybe it's the Stockton Kings. I think it was the Stockton Kings who actually were great. And their coach just got interviewed by the Charlotte Hornet. Lindsey Harding. But I think Muhammad and also, guess who else on that team? Scall Libisier. Oh, my God.

You want to talk about real blast from the past. They had both of those guys. Those guys, I think they were both number one high school players at one point. Both Muhammad and Skull Libisier. And now they're like in their 30s. They're playing for the Stock of the Kings. I really like Chavez Mohamed. He was a fun, fun score.

But I had him number 10, Janus, number nine, who had no chance to go in number one. I'm happy I had him top. 10, C.J. McCollum, number eight, Trey Burke, number seven, Autoportem number six. And then the top five, Len, Anthony Bennett at four, Ben McLemore at three,

Nerlands, Noel at two, Victor Oladipo. I had number one on 2013. You can see those rankings way back at Celtics blog. I did my top 50 big board way back. That's a long time ago. I think there were five guys that year.

This year in 2014, I think it might be like nine. You could argue have a chance to go number one. I mean, it's going to be like in the eye of the beholder this year. Stefan Castle, I have one. Alex Sar, number two, Donovan Klingin, number three. I think like if Memphis landed the number one pick, maybe they try to trade down. That's what I, to me, this is the trade down here.

You want to trade down. If you want clinging at one, well, maybe you can get them at four. Or you trade it to somebody that stinks for their, right? You take number one and you say, hey, bingo. You ready to give up bridges, Sean Marks? Yes, 100%. Exactly that type of thing. I have Nicola Topic,

Manas Buzellas. I mean, I don't think Reed Shepherd's going to go number one unless he completely destroys pre-draft, but that's five with Buzellas there. Dillingham, I don't really see it necessarily, but I could with Cody Williams, Zachary Risa Shea, I could see it. I still could see it with Ron Hollins.

So, I mean, how many guys is that that I just named? One, two, three. That was eight guys that I named that I think could go potentially number one. Think about how many of those guys you just named have been on a mock draft number one. Bezellis has. Dillingham probably has. Yeah, Dillingham probably too. And for sure, Holland.

Yeah, Holland has. Clingin's been, you know, close to one on a bunch of boards. Toppich has been one on, you know, mock drafts. Cody Williams has been. Yeah, I mean, there's so many of those guys. And yeah, I think this year is completely wide open in terms of, we'll find out, you know, lottery night, which team gets number one and have a better idea of what their needs and desires are for their team moving forward. But, but, you know, I still think that doesn't change the fact, as you said, the team that lands number one could just use that as trade bait and move down. So it's very hard to predict more than any year.

2013 was definitely the year I remember most of my first year covering the draft public. And it is, it is like craziest year since then for sure in terms of not knowing who's going to go number one at this point in the calendar year. Last thing I'll ask you on this, regarding Castle and him being number one, who knows if that's who you'll have number one by the time this all comes around. Do you look at it and say, I am most confident that this guy is going to be a really good NBA player? and I would rather have him won than somebody else that possibly has a higher ceiling or more star slash superstar potential, whether that player exists or not. Do you look at it and say, this is the safer guy and I am confident in what he is and I do think that he still has a high ceiling, though I do understand that other guys might have a higher ceiling, but they're,

super risky. I think Castle is one of those high floor, high ceiling players. He's a high floor player for all the reasons I mentioned earlier with the defense, the playmaking, the selflessness. He's just going to be, he's going to be a good basketball basketball who contributes to winning basketball just like he did for Yukon this year.

But if the shot develops, he has superstar potential. Gotcha. Let's play a little, that's true. That might be true. that's ridiculous. Let's do it. It is a game that everybody always looks forward to. All right, I'm going to start with a group of Eastern Conference questions for you.

The Celtics got a great deal on Drew Holiday. What was the final number of $137 million? Yep. It's a great deal for the first two years of that contract. So I will say that's true. It is true because that's what you're paying for is your years of contention. year three and year four of that contract that he declines as he's in the mid 30s of that deal. I'm far less concerned about that at that time.

I don't even care. It's about winning now. And so in that case, the Celtics did indeed get a good deal. That's true. Yeah, I guess the reporting is four and 135. 135. Okay. 135.

So he'll be 34 years old first year of that deal. He's already old. 37 in the final year of that contract. So you would say good deal, not great deal. Good deal. Good deal. That's true, good deal. I mean, no, a great deal would be 20 million annually or something like that.

Then it's like, wow, team really won this one. Right. Drew, Drew Holliday, that's true. He got an amazing deal. But the Celtics got a good deal, I think. I do. Do you agree with me there on that? Yeah, I mean, I think that it's going to be, of course,

we're going to view this through the prism of the playoffs. If they played Philly and got knocked out in the first round, that it's like, oh, well, now I've got True Holiday. Like, what am I doing running this back? I'm spending a fortune on this team. We're going to be high in the luxury tax. I've already paid Jaila Brown. You know, the price of Jason Tatum's never going down.

I've already got Porzigants. And so if the group as it is constituted falls on its face, then we're going to look at that very differently. Because now you're locked in to a group that massively underachieve in regards to what they have done during the regular season. This is statistically one of the greatest seasons any team has ever had in the history of the NBA. If they fall on their face and they get beat, of course we're going to look back at it

go, oh my God, they just locked in a dud, a team that was. great during the regular season and then got beaten the friggin' first round of the playoffs or the second round of the playoffs because this is opened up really well for the Celtics with the amount of injuries that have taken place especially with that middle group with the calves free falling like they have with the Knicks you know not being able to get Julius Randall back and OG and Obie's elbow who knows like it's broken right for the Celtics to take advantage of this unbelievable season. So it's always hard.

On the surface right now, yes. But I think that no matter what the way we view that signing is going to be dictated by what happens in the playoffs. Yeah. I mean, of course. I do think that's true. If things go well for Boston, East Finals run, NBA Finals run, or hoisting, you know, the championship trophy at Raising Banner 18, whatever the result, if they go

deep and Drew Holiday does what he's done throughout the regular season, which is, you know, play an incredibly versatile role defensively, different roles, whether it's on ball, sticking the guys roaming off ball, playing middle of a zone. Drew Holiday has done it all and hit spot-up threes and make the right play. It's going to be worth it in the short term. And in the long term, one other thing to add, Chris, you've got to have tradable contracts. And Drew Holiday, you know, when he is 36, 37 years old and he has only two years left or even an extent, It's an expiring deal. At that point, Boston will have a new set of draft picks that they get from the years passing by.

Drew Holiday becomes that salary that could be very, very tradable three, four years from now. And I know it's a long time away, but you need to have the right salaries in order to max contracts. That's how you get Drew Holiday in the first place. All right. So I talked about how this is really opened up for the Celtics. The next question talks about that team that was, for the longest time, the second seed. It may end up being the second seed in the end.

The Bucks could win a first round series without Janus. That might be true. Oh, boy, that's tough, though. I mean, like, I'm just trying to think who the opponent would be. You could win a series against the reeling cavaliers. The Cavs, Mitchell is not the same guy right now. I think you could beat the Pacers, their young team still. They couldn't beat the Pacers.

with Janus. I know. That was a long time ago. Those games were like November, December, January. It was a weird bad batch up for them. I know. How long, how do those matchups matter now, though? I'm not sure. I think, I don't, not saying I would pick them without Janus, but they could beat them. So that might be true that they could beat them. Pacer's, calves. Do you think they would beat the Knicks? I don't. I don't know, man. I don't think so. Well, they just stomp the magic last night. I know. They did. It was one of those. And in a seven-game series, though, and also in that game last night, the Magic didn't have their best player, Franz Wagner.

Oh, stop. Let me a break. Paulo's throwing that whole franchise on his back. This is Paulo getting his just desserts. I tell you this, more than any other guy this year, and we have talked about Paulo a ton all through the year, yet Paulo has become, there's always like one of those guys in the league

that becomes the state, the underrated guy, right? We were talking, you know, we used to joke how on my show, we used to always call him the underrated Keenan Allen. And then it became Derek White, right? Nobody talks about Derek White. Nobody understands how good Derek White.

And like the guy gets talked up so much that, and it's always about how he never, gets respect. Paulo is that new guy. It's like, hey, look at what Paulo's done. He's led this team to this top five seed. And nobody talks about him. And yet all anybody is doing is constantly talking about how nobody talks about this guy.

And he is awesome. And he is at an unbelievable season. And he certainly looks like a tremendous face of franchise number one pit. Mm-hmm. You know. Yeah. He's fantastic. His development is incredible to witness, and the magic, they could win a series.

They could. So I'd say that might be true for the bucks. Might be. I think it might be ridiculous. Even against the Cavs with Mitchell playing at this level right now? I mean, they've been like- Mitchell's not the same guy right now. The bucks have been so intensely untrustable.

I know. If you tell me I'm getting it. Man, it looks pretty bleak without Janus. I mean, it's been bleak with Janus. I know. Now take him out. And that's what this dude averaging, like 40 and 17. I don't know over seven games if I'm, you know,

counting on Pat Bibb and Bobby Portis to get me home. But I don't know. You might be right. You know, if they're playing one of the young teams, like they did with the magic, right, where they can. Yeah. It's still veterans. It's still men.

It's still guys that have been in a lot of playoff series. and it's not a new moment for them. And so, I don't know. You're probably right. They probably could, but it would certainly be very match-up dependent. Get in on all the NBA buzzer, beaters, ankle breakers, and Tomahog jams with Fanduel.

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Next question. Philly would have the best chance in the Eastern Conference of knocking off Boston. That's true. That's true, I'd say right now. The way MB has looked since he got back and the assumption that he'll continue

to get even better as he gets into better shape. The Sixers looks like they have a complete team the heat obviously they've they've been you know a scary threat to boston and years past they've defeated them before but at the same time i think the sixers have the best player in that theoretical matchup boston miami or or boston philly imbeads the guy that could i think have an incredible series now that he's fresh that's a variable worth considering there and the heat even though they getting some guys back they have hero back they just got crushed

by the Mavericks the other night. They had to go to two overtimes against the heat. They've still been incredibly streaky when we're right here at the doorstep of the playing tournament. So even though the heat had done it in the past from these circumstances, they barely beat the Bulls. They were in fourth quarter down. Could have lost that.

I'll go with the Sixers with the stability aspect, with Embed being the star that he is and Maxi reaching the level that he has and all the depth that they have over the Miami Heat right now is the best threat of Boston. So that's true. Okay. Q people responding to us. Oh, Kevin talked about how it's not that big to lose Julius Randall because he's a dud in the playoffs.

Well, let's go do the dud list in the playoffs. And now he's telling me that Joel Embeddead's going to be incredible. I mean, Embeddde is like I said, he's been a dud. Like I said, but he hasn't been Julius Randall level, dud. Yes, he has. He's been a top of in Randall. We could compare the. the numbers he want to. He's a Randall level

done. When we're talking about in comparison to what they bring during the regular season versus the playoffs, his numbers have been, it is a precipitous fall. Yeah, his numbers do fall. You're right, for sure. However, like I said, this year's far different in the sense that

A, he's just been out for multiple months. He's coming back, hopefully, fresher than he ever has been entering the postseason. B, he has Nick Nurse is his head coach. Nick Nurse, the system that features movement and motion, cutting, Embed's passing and playmaking more than he ever has within this ecosystem.

And then three, he has a teammate in Tyrese Maxi with his dynamic creation ability, the perimeter oriented style, the speed that is the best compliment that he's ever had in his entire career as a co-star, better than Jimmy Butler, better than Ben Simmons, better than anybody ever in his history. So for Embed, the circumstances are there for him to finally, not just meet but exceed what he's done in the regular season. And if he doesn't, then I'll be far more likely to talk about it like you are, where he has been a dud and he has disappointed and his efficiency,

has fallen off a cliff. That's all true. However, the circumstances are there this season for him to hopefully match or exceed what he's done in the regular season. We have been together for eight seasons. I think that is the best argument you've ever made. Thank you. I'm very persuaded.

I mean, look, I'm not, I was just playing devil's advocate with you because I know what happens when we get on Twitter. And, but the reasons as to why MB's past playoff performances are not indicative of his or predictive of his future playoff performances. You gave three extremely good reasons as to why it will be different. it may not end up with the great results, but those are real reasons as to why it will be different this time for him, though he has had previous playoff failings. It better be. Yeah.

It better be. If it's not, then that raises some serious questions. Oh, on the, can he be your best player? Yeah. He's got to be the guy that gets you home.

He does. Now, I mentioned this on our show last week, but I mean, anybody can look it up when they have had Maxie and MPD active. They've got the highest winning percentage in the league. It is, when we did this last show, at that point, it was 80% win percentage.

Crazy. The Celtics was 79.5. So it is just not your typical 8C. And I think I'm with you on this. If you were to line them all up and the goal here is knock off. Boston. Who could knock off Boston? I think that's the team I would draft to try to do it as well.

Now we'll get to player. Line up every player on the wall for the Eastern Conference playoffs. Jimmy Butler would be the first pick. That's ridiculous. To me, it's not Jimmy Buller. Are we talking healthy for everybody? Yeah, everybody's healthy.

Okay, then Janus is number one. Without a doubt, Janus is the number one pick if you're lining up all the players in the Eastern Conference to win a playoff game or a playoff series. You know they played against each other last year, right? Yeah, I know, but we can talk about that series if you want to. Janus was hurt.

We can get into that if you want to, but then what's not father? I know. I mean, Janice, who else would it be? Are you really thinking Jimmy Butler, Chris? No. I was just asking. Oh, no. Okay.

You're taking Janus and then who's two? Embed. I'm taking Embed number two still. I am. Even though he's never been to a conference finals? Yeah, despite the past, I'm still taking him number two. Butler is not getting past five. Who's three? Is it Butler three or is it Tatum? I'd rather have Jimmy Butler the Jason Taylor. How about where's Brunson fall into this?

And again, this is not who is the better player. This is, and we've done this before where I say, look, Where a guy would be taken for the playoffs is much different than where a guy. And there is no greater difference than Butler's. If you'd want them for the season or if you'd want them for the playoffs. Yes. Nobody has a greater gap in where they would be drafted, you know, for an upcoming season. And in the end, look, Butler might not even be there.

You know, if they lose a game and then they get, you know, they can. catch a bad 48 minutes where the Bulls or the Hawks hit 16 threes in a night, then you might not even see him in the playoffs, right? That's possible as well. But we're not getting, it's kind of crazy that, you know, Janice, and you're saying healthy, obviously, was two. I mean, he's on the second-seated team. But the other guys are like in like the 7-8 realm.

that's where they are right now because you said Mb and I said man I don't know I might want Jimmy for just if we're just going to war for a seven game series I might want Butler I certainly want Butler very high and higher

than many guys that are considered better players in the league because we've done this show every year and we get to the playoffs and we come on here and we're like Jesus here he is again Well, so, okay, so if the top three in some order is Janice and Bede Butler, and you could argue against that if you want two listeners of the podcast,

but does that say something about Tatum and Boston's finals hopes, the fact that he's not the clear cut two or three, that he's kind of in that argument, like the bob behind some of those guys. I think that's always been the question. Who is the best guy? We know through the history of the NBA, the best player on the team that wins a title is typically always a top five player in the league.

And sometimes they become that. There would have been arguments on Dirk. It wasn't a consensus. Yes. But right now, if you ask people who the top five players in the league are, Tatum's usually not in their list. Is that fair? Yeah, usually that's true.

True. Where the Ringer have him ranks? The Ringer re-did did their top 100 rankings this week. I'm just checking to see where they had him. They had Tatum at 7. Maybe he's the best player on a title team. That changes. Of course, of course, for sure. Yeah, I mean, he moves ahead of Kauai, who they have sixth. They have Embed 5, SGA 4, Yonahs 3, Luca 2, Yokich 1. Yeah, if the Celtics win the title and Tatum, like, if they win the title, it's largely because Tatum has a great playoff run, too. He really moves to what? Five, maybe four?

I could see the ringer doing that. Next one. Atlanta would be a scarier one-game opponent for the loser of the seven-eight game than Chicago. Yeah, that's true because Dejante Murray or Trey Young can go catch absolute fire. And it's not like they don't have, you know, some talent on that team. Like Jalen Johnson, you know, he's out right now, but really good player. They have room protection. So, I mean, I think, I mean, I guess with Jalen Johnson this morning, he was diagnosed with the grade two.

It's rim protection that doesn't work in fairness. Also, Jalen Johnson, I just saw this morning was diagnosed. It turns out to be a grade two angle sprain. So he's out three weeks. So, God, that's tough for the Hawks. He's really good, man. One of the more improved players this entire season. So, I mean, maybe it is the Bulls.

I mean, they got. Bulls have more dogs on their team. Yeah, they do. They got a lot of great defenders. They have to Rosen and endgame score, Kobe White. I changed my answer. It's the Bulls. The Bulls are more scary.

So that's ridiculous. It's the Bulls. All right. The Jalen Johnson injury is tough, man. He's a really good player for them. If the Bulls beat the Hawks, that will be Trey Young's last game as a hawk. That's true. I think you'll see a lot of trade rumors in the months to come

with him involved with Lakers, Spurs, and maybe some surprise teams out there, but Lakers, for sure, they'd be the most likely team that you hear in the Trey Young stuff. Because guess what? We already have heard about the Trey Young to L.A. stuff for a year now. But that's going to become more of a reality as a potential path for the Hawks moving forward.

But again, I don't think that stuff is going to become real until after the lottery. Where do the Hawks land? Do the Lakers keep their pick? How do the Lakers, you know, playoff run go? Do they even make the playoffs? Because they're in the playing right now, too. A lot of stuff needs to shake out. But I'd say that's true.

Well, because it's hard to fathom, like, even if they did, let's say they won that game, and then they beat the loser of 7-8 somehow. Well, now it's a Boston mercy killing. Yeah. So there's no, like, there's no scenario in which this ends nicely. It'd be shocking. It'd be, it'd be, it's like a 1% chance. Like, seriously, the biggest upset ever.

Ever, ever, yeah. Right? Ever. It would. It would be the biggest upset ever. Ever. If a team that wins damn near 70 games lost to that sorry ass Hawks team, that'd be crazy. I mean, it might be the biggest upset ever if they won a game or two.

They get paused. Take it to six. Right. All right, let's move to the west side. West side, winner of Clippers, Dallas, would have the best chance at knocking off Denver. That's tough.

That might be true. If the Clippers fix it, did you see the clip of Ty Lou? He's asked after the game, have you started your preparation for the Mavericks. It's like, I already have Mike Drop gets up from the podium. I mean, if the Clippers can get right, the Mavericks are playing at such an elite, level right now. Luca making a real run at the second spot or even the winning spot for MVP.

You hold the phone on that one. We got a question about it. Okay. Yeah, the MAVs are looking for real right now. They're starting to look like they're peaking. They could, I mean, look, dude, Luca versus Yokic would be real drama. I could see that going on six, seven games for sure. Whereas with some of these other opponents, I don't know, man, like we just saw Yokic just dropped 41 on Gobert and Minnesota. OKC is so young. They don't have the size, the sons. I mean, yes, we talked about how they could be the best threat to the nuggets a couple

weeks back, but they're so untrustworthy. Are you really going to put them over the way the Mavs are playing right now with Kyrie and Luca and maybe not, maybe not. So I do think the winner of the four or five is the greatest threat in that second round. Yes, that's true. Either one. Yeah, either one. I know you, I know you talk through it like Dallas would do it.

But if the Clippers did beat them. Maybe not Clippers over Suns just because the way last year's series of the Suns went. But if they beat Dallas, then we'd be thinking about them a lot differently. 100%. So that's why I would say that's true, yes. Yeah. And obviously, look, if they do it, it's because Kauai Leonard is Kauai Leonard. Man, the West is going to be crazy.

No, that 4 or 5 is murdered. I can't wait. The trilogy between those. So the next one, I saw you tweeting about this this morning. And we are, as I've talked on the pod before, I am one of those that sends back to Tim Bontem's, my MVP thing, though I do not have a vote. I am part of that straw poll.

And, you know, he put that out on April 2nd. That's nine days ago, all right? and Yokic got damn near every first place vote of a hundred members. Sheikilers Alexander had one. Oh, no, no, I'm sorry, 10. Luca had one vote. April 2nd had one first place vote on April 2nd. Luca is going to be your MVP choice.

That might be true. Wow. might be. I still think it'll be Yokic. I mean, I'm going to do my deep dive of research over the weekend. The NBA is not sending out their award ballots until Monday the day after the season concludes. So I'm going to do my deep dive over the weekend and kind of reassess where I'm at on everything. But I do have Luca second right now on my ballot, surpassing Yannis. So I have Yonkich 1, Luca 2, Yonis 3, SGA 4. That's the pretty clear cut top 4. And then there's like a bunch of guys you could say for number 5. It doesn't really

matter. But I think Luke has got a shot. He's been outstanding from start to finish this season. The fact that he could guide this team to the 4C, despite the fact that they've had so many guys missing time. Kairi included the Maxi Kleeva types of the world.

Josh Green missing time. Like so many good role players in that team have been in and out. The fact that they had to integrate two players of the deadline, Gafford and Washington, so you're changing personnel, players in and out of the lineup, including your co-star on Kyrie, and yet, your team in this loaded Western conference, his won over 50 games, and Luke has been the

stabilizing force for that team. He belongs in the conversation. But I think the argument in favor of Yokic is simply the fact that he is a better and a more important defensive player on top of being just the center of the solar system of that Nuggets offense as everybody knows. So if you're giving an edge, it's probably Yokic on defense. But Luke is right there. And he and he could surpass him once I do my deep dive. We'll see. But he's number two right now on my board as of today. So if you round up the numbers,

I went and looked at it after I saw your tweet. And I was like, let me just go look at this. Luke is averaging 34, 10, and 9. Amazing. What is that? Amazing. Averaging?

34, 10, and 9. It's amazing. Genuinely amazing. I mean, that's crazy. That's crazy. We are having some just crazy, crazy statistical seasons over the course of the last couple of years. Now, of course, look, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that Nicola Yokic himself is averaging 12.4 rebounds, 9 assists. So he's averaging those.

And to go along with how many points to see, 27 we rounded up. So 27, 12, and 9. And the other guys averaging 34, 10, and 9. Gally. I can't believe on that ballot that straw poll. Four people left Luca off their ballots. Eight people left Yanos off their ballots. What?

That blew my mind. Four people left Luca off? I would tell you, people can go back and look at that from April. second. So I had the four that everybody had. And then I, for fifth, I threw in Subon, it's just to mess

with you. Oh, my God. You were one of, wait, so you were one of the three. There's three people who had Sabonis Boat. Yeah. I was like, who gives it crap? And it'll make Kevin bad. Who were the other two? I wanted to know. I don't know. Probably Dus and Mo

on the King's broadcast. They were probably the other two. Probably true. It's probably being them. I was like, man, this guy's had more double doubles than Will Chamberlain. Let's throw him a bone. Let's throw him a bone. So good. Get a little MVP talk for De Monta's supposed.

I wonder who the other two were. I'd love to know. Probably people that weren't trying to be funny. Yeah, I know. He was a troll. Yeah. Oh, that leads to our next question. You are very happy that Sacramento has fallen in the standings

and you might not have to be crushed with Sabona's tweets. That's ridiculous. That's ridiculous. I want good things for Kings fans. I want Kings fans to be happy. I do. That's where this is all rooted in, is in my desire for Kings fans after decades of pain to feel joy and happiness.

And so my criticism is rooted in that, as it always has been. So you would be happy if Sacramento won and then went on a run in the playoff? That's ridiculous. I don't want him to be that happy. You can't decide. I want him to, I want him to, I want him to, I wanted to do it under the way I said they should. Right.

You don't want to. I want them to be happy. Oh, so if they went on a run, you'd be thrilled by that? No. No, I would be very happy for Kingsmen. I'd be shocked and surprised if they had or if they do, because they're still in the playing right now. but like I said from the beginning,

I think they're going to have to find upgrades in that front court. Somebody that can add size next to Subonis, or is that even better, or is even better than him. I think they're going to have to find more wings. Now you have Monk as a free agent this off season. There's, you know, I, Kegan Murray, I wish he made even more of a leap.

I know he's made some improvements this year. Maybe year three will be the leap year for him. So I think for the Kings, there's still some positive trends for them. But to me, like number one, more than anything else, they got to make a trade. They have to make an aggressive move, even if that player's like, no, I don't want to go to Sacramento. Do it and bring that guy out of your building and have him, you know, hit the button to light the beam and fall in love with the fans. And make him fall in love with your city and franchise.

Like, who cares if the player says, I don't want to be there. He's got years left on his contract. Go get that guy the summer and make a run and give those fans what they deserve. And that's more than just a first round appearance. Who cares? Phoenix has the most pressure to win and make a playoff run. Oh, yeah, that's true. Yeah, that's true.

They get nothing. They get nothing. No picks, no assets, no young players with value, a bunch of old guys. Like, they get nothing. You think it breaks up after one season if they either don't get to the playoffs or get bounced in the first? You can't rule it out. you can't rule it out.

Kevin Durant has bounced before. You can't rule it out. No. When you just wonder how you would change it up. Do you think they would, or do you think they would just do the patience thing and go, look, we believed in this. It never came together,

but we're going to run it back because we believe that as currently constituted, if these guys can actually play games together, that this is going to, we're still going to work around the market. But we believe that having these three guys as our core guys that we build out around it, we try to find what's right to fit around them, that that is still our best path to the success we want to have.

I mean, that's more likely for sure, but you can't rule out the fact. This is a good excuse here, right? You could say, yeah, well, we, yeah, the reason we lost in the first round is because we ended up with a low seed and had to, right? but that's not that was never our intention our intention throwing this together and it might have just been a fool's air you may might just be stupid because you're never going to get those three guys healthy for 65 games in a season they get bounce on the first round boy this would be a one year experiment from hell truly yep new owner thing there's no way around that

oh speaking of new owner thing of course a rod and Mark Lurie would plan to get under the tax in the second apron. That would have been the responsible thing to do. That might be true. Did you think that story was weird coming out like that? Yeah, it was strange timing, huh? It was not like Taylor has never been cheap. These guys would have gotten under the luxury tax.

Like, good luck selling Minnesota to somebody that doesn't want to pay the luxury tax. And okay, they've been used to that for decades now with Glenn Taylor as their owner. Nothing new. He's gone over a couple of times, but again, with now the penalties for going over and the second apron thing, it's like,

it came out as a story of like, hey, thank God Glenn Taylor's still around and people can glue their face to the free throw line because these guys would have cut cost. It's like,

I don't know. Minnesota is not exactly, you know, the biggest money-making market. And if you don't have a, I mean, I don't know. It just felt like, he's like, these guys would have made them not compete.

And it's like, I don't know. I think pretty much anybody that buys these teams is not wanting to mess around with that second apron. Arod and Mark Lord, they were the guys who pushed to hire Tim Conley away from Denver. They overpaid to take him away from Denver. They got him.

There was the report today from Sean Serrania on Fambool TV that Tim Conley has an opt-out after this season. He could leave. You could lose the guy that was hired by the owners he thought he was going to be working for. Arod and new ownership, they were the ones who, along with Conley, pushed a trade for Rudy Gobert, obviously that looked bad at one time. It looks outstanding now with him on the verge of potentially winning his fourth defensive player of the year and at the least anchoring the number one defensive basketball

from day one. So like these guys have paid Nas Reid, paid Mike Conley. Paid Conley, paid Reed. And what is the value of the franchise? What is it done to the value of the franchise? It's pretty much doubled under the short amount of time that they've made all these transactions to improve the team as Anthony Edwards has continued to ascend. They did a pretty good job in a short amount of time. And that's why, you know, if you're a Wolf's fan, I'd be crushed right now with all this controversy.

The fact Taylor could be taking the team back. It's disappointing. And even if they did have had a cut payroll, this was a conversation. It would have been a conversation regardless of who the owner is. It doesn't make a difference. It's going to be a conversation considering all the new. penalties. And it was framed as if, hey, lucky you've still got me, because look what these guys

would have done. And he might still do it too. Or, I mean, look, you'd have been way better off presenting me the argument, hey, these guys are cash poor, you're lucky you still got me. Or these guys, though we thought that they had the best intention, still would move this team if given the opportunity, even though that's... It's the only thing I wanted to prevent. Like, there's a lot of different ways you could have gone with it.

But the whole, these guys would have gotten under the luxury tax? It's like, yeah, no shit. So would anybody? Yeah. When I read that, I was like, that's a bizarre thing to have out there. And then, of course, it's like, hey, these guys would have done this dastardly thing. Adam Silver's told everybody not to talk. So like you can't even.

Well, okay, where is this coming from then? I mean, the fact is, I mean, the Bill Simmons podcast he did where he opened the show talking about this whole situation about a week ago or so ago. I mean, he talked about kind of the struggle for money to meet those deadlines, right? That seems true, but I think it's also true that Taylor seems disingenuous with all of his handling in this situation as well, whether it's this report that we're talking about right now or even in the initial one where he claimed that they weren't involved in basketball stuff, that they were more involved than, you know, choosing the sweets and changing stuff around

the arena, all this luxury stuff. that's what they cared about. Ever since those guys were hired, I've personally ever heard, all that other reporters I've talked to have heard has been about how they are like so hands-on. They have the new owner syndrome too, just like we're talking about with the sons.

Oh, to your point, to your point, two years ago, the Grizzlies played the Timberwolves in the first round of the playoffs. I ran into A-Rod at every game. He was in Memphis.

He was here. Because people were like, oh, my God, there's A-Rai. He's sitting there on the front road. that's like right after with everything basketball decisions and yes the stuff involving sweets and all that and making it better for bringing people in all of it they seem very very involved in yes so i think both can be true that they struggled to find some of the money that they needed to but also the taylor stuff just feels like he's very clearly trying to he sees how his value the franchise value has increased significantly and he doesn't want to take a bad deal that that's that's what i think's actually happening little buyers remorse yes and i i Sellers are more. Yeah, sellers are more.

So I just hope for Wolf's fans. This all works out. I really do. I do too. Golden State would have a better chance at a playoff run than the Lakers. I'd say that's ridiculous. Yeah, I think the Lakers are... It's been hot, Kiv.

I know, I know, I know. Clay Thompson's turned back the clock. I know, I know. It's tough. It's really tough between those two, man. It is funny how that it feels like... Well, wait, it also depends on matchups, too. Like, who are they going to get in the first round?

That's tough. That might be true. It's not ridiculous. It might be true. Oh, yeah. If they somehow, well, no, I mean, eight's the best they could do. Yeah. Neither of them.

Which do you think would give a better run to Denver? Warriors, because the same reasons we're talking about with the Suns, with the perimeter shooting. So I'll go Warriors, even though the Lakers played the, Nuggets tough last year. Let's go Warriors. They've really had their number. Lord knows Malone loves beating them.

You know what I mean? Beating the Lakers. But both those teams, doesn't it feel like it's like where these last couple weeks of the season like, where has this been all year? Like did you guys just not? Like it's like they really care these last couple of weeks. And that like the games like there's like a level of focus and level of intensity. that those teams are playing with that we just did not see and and it was like all right well it's

enough to get there it's almost like you know when you would you know your test is coming up next Friday and it's Thursday at 3 a.m. And you're like damn I got a test tomorrow and then you start grabbing for the test right it's really how it feels and you might end up doing well on the test but it's like dude you could have done you could have been a lot better off if you didn't procrastinate, you know, this whole time. And obviously a bunch of better related teams who have also won a lot. And I do think, I think that there are some of these vet teams that looked around and saw the heat playing in the NBA finals.

And we're like, you see, it doesn't matter. They just proved it. And it's going to catch somebody for sure. For sure. But you're right. The teams are looking around like, eh, whatever. Seating doesn't matter. as much. If we could just get there, we just need to get there. And then we believe in what we can do.

But this is precisely why the top seeds need to matter more. Because if the top seeds are allowed to choose their most advantageous matchup that they believe, that makes the lower seeds have therefore less value. Because you're not just, it's not just random with what you end up with. It means, oh, shh, like, dang, we're going to end up with a team that wants to face us and has matchup advantages, it's more important to get the higher seed. Just saying, just throwing that up there. If you're listening, Adam Silver, an NBA front office people. There's zero percent chance he's listening.

Maybe a memo will cross his desk. Maybe so. Let the top three seats choose their first round opponents and make the end of the season even more exciting. And create organic rivalries. There is that one unbelievable game. We are recording this before the Thursday night game, which does have very high stakes. I am sure that you are going to be rooting for Sacramento failure against the New Orleans Pelicans, but that is a big game, to say the least, in regards to

the standings. As New Orleans is going to be trying to hold on to their six spot, and Sacramento is at worst trying to get up to seven, even though they've fallen a full game and a half behind Phoenix. You never know the way this stuff is going to play out over the weekend. but by the next time we talk to each other, we're going to be talking about the play-ins. We'll be talking about the play-ins. I'm excited, man. So we have made it all the way to the end of the season,

and it's going to be quasi-playoff basketball. It's certainly going to feel like playoff basketball. By the time we get to next week, and we're doing a show as the matchups are going to be set after this weekend. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always. I will talk to you next week. I'm looking forward to having a good weekend. Must be 20 plus in present in select states.

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