The Mismatch - Adam Silver’s Tough Week, Trae Young Claps Back, and What to Do With Jonathan Kuminga

Episode Date: September 19, 2025

Verno and Jacoby are back as they continue to discuss the evolving story about Kawhi Leonard, Steve Ballmer, and Aspiration. Also, they detail how commissioner Adam Silver has mishandled the Clippers situation and his backtracking comments after calling the NBA a "highlights-based sport." Next, they discuss the latest with Jonathan Kuminga and debate whether he’ll start the season with the Warriors or somewhere else before shifting their attention to the latest war of words between Patrick Beverley and Trae Young. The guys finish out the episode with some rapid-fire news from around the league. (00:00) Welcome to The Mismatch!(00:48) Even more evidence surrounding Kawhi Leonard, Steve Ballmer, and Aspiration(18:15) Adam Silver on the Clippers mess and backtracking his "highlights" league comments(24:36) Latest on Jonathan Kuminga(35:58) Patrick Beverley vs. Trae Young(46:19) Confidence level of an in-shape Joel Embiid with the Sixers(48:09) Michael Malone full time at ESPN(49:05) NBC is placing sideline reporters closer to team benches(52:39) Should the Knicks retire Carmelo Anthony’s number?(56:30) How many movies do you think you’ve seen 10 times? Leave us a message on our Mismatch Voicemail line! [phone] Hosts: Chris Vernon and David JacobyProducers: Jessie LopezSocial: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the mismatche up, Chris Vernon, and joining me as he does every week from the ringer.com is Dave Jacoby. Jacoby. What's happening in Verno? I have heard more about Kauai Leonard, Pablo Tori and Mark Cuban than I care to in the last month. It's getting ridiculous. We needed something to fill the void. Now, we do have a lot of things that have filled the void as we've been doing one show a week. and we, I will say we do have a lot of things that we're going to get to that have filled the void since we last spoke. This Kauai Leonard's story, though, has taken precedence over everything. We have got first Pablo Tori and all of his outstanding reporting on the matter. And then we're followed up with the Baxter Holmes article, which quoted all manner of Clipper's sources, talking about how they were slowly moving away from the Kauai business.

And then a lot of, there's a lot of things that were mentioned in the article. Like the headlines are going to be like they're done building around him and all that stuff. But the details of it were super interesting. It was like, okay, this has been a long time, but now people are willing to talk about this. because it's like, okay, he's brought like, this is now. We have reached mega bad press time.

So let's go ahead and talk to everybody about how terrible this Kaui Leonard thing has been. You know he's only played 58% of his games. But did you know that his camp doesn't even let anybody talk about him? Do you know that there are stipulations on the coaching staff, not being able to talk about him, that there's instances where the coaches are the staff. may have been pressured to stay silent about things and that everyone just lives in fear of Kauai Leonard and his camp. And it's like, oh, my gosh, this is like, it really is.

It's one of those like, okay, I'm ready to tell you everything since we're all pissed off about this aspiration thing. And the thing about it is that I keep going back to is like, I really liked the Clippers offseason. Like, I really did. Like, I was high on the clippers at the end of the regular season. They went seven, you know what I mean, and lost. And I thought they really improved their roster. And now this is all we can talk about. And on media day, he's going to have a microphone in front of him.

And he's not going to say anything, anything. He might just stay silent the whole time. I don't know. They say that he like, he can, you know, he, he, uh, he's able to talk about when he wants to do obligations and what he doesn't. And it was so funny. As I was reading, for those of you that don't know what we're talking. talking about. Baxter Holmes wrote a big article at ESPN.com about kind of the Kauai Leonard experience in L.A. One of the things that is mentioned, it deals with media and dealing

with the media and this fear of, and look, before I get into the Kauai Leonard specific, let me just say, every single team, every single team outside of possibly Miami and Pat Riley, who doesn't care, maybe Popovich and the Spurs, every single team lives in fear of making their star mad. That is not in any way unique to the Kauai Leonard experience. They all live in fear of the star player and the camp, all of them, all of them. and they all have to be like they have that's the league we're in that when you pay somebody half a billion dollars you want them to be happy that's why coaches get fired that's why

roster moves are made that's i mean that's that's the business these guys the most important person in the organization is always the star player outside of miami and so San Antonio for the last 30 years. Like, really? That's about it. I'm trying to think of exceptions and it's hard. Yeah. No.

Well, it's because everyone's job is directly tied to team success. And team success is directly tied to the performance of your best player, the superstar, the franchise player, and you want that franchise player to be happy. But there are levels to how you kowtow to it. And the reason that the Kauai thing was so crazy is because as I'm reading about it, it talks about how coaches or some people maybe within the organization are pressured to stay silent. I went and covered a basketball game. And I went back and looked it up.

And I'm just going to give this to express how I felt when I was reading the story. As I was reading the story from personal experience, I was like, oh. I went and looked it up on March 31st, 2023. So this is two years ago. This is right in the middle of the quest of actually. I covered the Memphis Grizzlies versus the Los Angeles Clippers. Anybody can go look this up. It was a game at FedEx Forum.

When I show up to the game, I'm like, oh, wow, he's playing. And he's starting. And you didn't know whether or not he was going to play or he was going to start in that game. because it was listed as Kauai Leonard questionable personal reasons. All right. I was like, all right. Well, maybe we'll get to see him. Maybe we won't.

I'm always excited when the star players from the other teams are playing. Of course. Comes out in the first half, it's like, oh boy, Clippers, like when they've got Kauai, they are, they are good, brother. He had 12 points in the first half to nip-tuck game. Come out in the second half, he's not there. I remember this. He's not in the game.

And I'm like, I'm like, what is going on? So it is commonplace when I am on press row that somebody's not in the game. And PR will then send out, you know, whoever, like name the guy, David Booker, unlikely to return ankle spring. Whatever, right? There's a reason given. There was nothing given. No one ever sent out anything.

Okay. No one's ever said that anything. anything. So then we get to the post game. Russell West, and by the way, the Grizzlies go on to win. They run away with the game. And we get to the post game. We're like, why Leonard didn't get hurt in the first half? Like, what is going on? Like they had a back to back in New Orleans. So we're like, did he really just sit out the second half so that he could play in New Orleans the next night? And so

Russell Westbrook to ask about it. He's like, I don't know where he was. no one said anything. And I'm like, what? So then Ty Lou is like, we've said what we're going to say, I don't want to talk about it. We're like, what is going on? Now, by the way, he did not play. I don't believe in New Orleans next night. No, but this is not common practice.

This is very much not how this normally goes. To this day, there's been no reason given why he didn't. It was the weirdest thing. I have ever been a part of at a game. I have never seen a guy go and cook in the first half in like a close game. Doesn't come out at halftime. And there's no united message as to what has happened. His own teammates were like, yeah, we don't know why he wasn't out here in the second half.

Like, what is going on? We'll talk about other things in a second. but he put yourself in his shoes. He prepped the entire day, naped, eight, stretched, workout, training, warm up. He did all of that to perform in the game. He probably felt something physical in the first half that made him feel like,

and he's made independent medical decisions in the past, that he did not want to continue and play in the second half. But normally protocol is, hey, Kauai, what's going on? He says, my right knee doesn't feel right. And they say, okay. And the PR person says, knee questionable to return. And no one talks about it.

No one's talking about it two years later on a podcast. That's all it takes. But what it sounds like based on Baxter's article and things that we hear, they're like, Kauai, what's wrong? And he's just silent. And then he leaves. Honestly,

as soon as I read the article, I was like, oh, they weren't allowed to say. Like, it's like, not only will I play whenever I want to play, Don't talk about it.

It's wild. And so we've all seen Pablo's stuff. And I watched him and Dan and shout to them. You know, this is big story. Pablo's name is in everyone's mouth. A friend of mine, love it for him, right? The question of like what happens now is really tricky for Adam Silver. Oh, yes.

You've got this investigation going on. Obviously something happened that's not okay. it's clear there's enough evidence there is no smoking gun but there's a dead body and there's a gun and bombers holding it is just not smoking do you worry i would worry if i am adam silver or if i am steve balmer or anybody like don't you feel this is how i feel i feel like pablo tory is now and you you you're friends with them yeah i know him just as a media personality right we we work together we eat dinners together once in a while, the great guy.

Yeah. Okay. Well, then you don't have to divulge this if you actually do know. I feel like Pablo Tori is sitting on more. Bro, he's I-V- dripping this stuff to us. No, he's just watching it for the clicks.

Like, he could have dropped the whole thing in one pod. He's like, but now he's just, he's just slow playing it. And I see tripping it into the news cycle. And I think, I honestly think they're like,

I am a conspiracy theory guy. I think there's like bigger things to play. I think at some point there's like a like a guy is going to walk up next to Pablo he's walking on the street and be like you're coming with me get in that car like we need to know what you know and we need to know it now like it's like getting kind of dangerous well because also what happens with something like this is I would guess two things a he's probably sitting on more and just waiting like say something I dare you say something and wait till I drop this tomorrow right like

It feels like he's sitting on probably more. And maybe that more has even come since the first report. Because you know the way this word. Once the seal is broken and he puts that out, you're going to have a bunch of people line up be like, hey, and did you know this? And did you know this? You end up increasing tenfold the amount of people that want

to talk to you about this. Well, here's, here's what it is, is we always talk about Steve Bomber, the Clippers and Uncle Dennis and Kauai and Pablo Torrey, but I think like that at the heart of this story is this huge company that was a fraud, that was completely fumbled,

that was supposed to like fixed climate change and was just a huge fraud scheme. And there was dozens of people that worked there that lost their jobs. That felt like they were on in a sense, company, an aspirational pun intended company. Right. And they had good salaries and lifestyles and bought mortgages and have kids.

They put in private school and the rug got pulled out from under them. And those are the sources that will give you the dirt. And those are also the sources that you can't trust to be 100% objective because they've got a slant on it. Right. But like there are so many people that got fucked by Ascension that are willing to talk. aspiration. Sorry, I used to send it. Forgive ascension. That's probably another business. Probably another company that's. You can

plant trees. Give them a dollar to plant a tree for 10 cents. The whole thing is hilarious to me. It's hilarious to me. But when a company goes under like that, and it's clearly Samberg and Chaudry's fault, there are dozens of people that got screwed over and they are so happy to tell you

all of the dirt that happened while they were there. and that's i made a promise myself that i will not speak publicly about ESPN in a negative light because they've done so much for my life but i got some information you see me at a bar got me to buy me a couple beers we can talk uh oh on the next episode of pablo tory finds out uh adam silver i i have really changed my opinion on this the more the more that pablo drops

and the more evidence that keeps building that something nefarious that you you just kind of have to look at and go all right bro how did you not know like i got mark cuban saying no it's very easy you didn't know like all right like we've got at some point you line it all up and you'd be like all right uncle dennis asked for all this stuff then they make it then we have it in writing that this type of stuff did happen and then it's like But so I just feel like, I think I wavered. I was like, after I watched the Cuban episode, I was like, you know, if this is how billionaires really think, and that's the conglomeration of the owners that Silver answers to, he might actually get away with this, right? Because if he is a rightful example of how many of them would think. And so they more so relate to a billionaire getting scammed than they do. This guy would try to be doing these dastardly deeds and circumventing the cap. I think that's where I was probably when we last recorded.

The more that Pablo drops and the more stories that come out, to me, it becomes, okay. Like something. I feel like if they slap them on the wrist, Pablo is going to drop the mother load. I would be so scared if I'm Adam Silver to slap them on the wrist. And then the next day, Pablo's like, oh, you want to slap them on the wrist? Because now you got Baxter Holmes digging too. And it's like, it's, it's pretty gnarly.

And here's a, I've, I've so many thoughts on this. I don't want to spend too much time in this story, which has been overcovered. Shout to Pablo. what is Mark Cuban's motivation for defending bomber like it's his brother like what he's not even like an owner or governor I guess I'm supposed to say I don't even want to what is Mark Cuban doing like why is he covering for this guy why can you figure that part out answer that question what is Cuban doing I don't want to because I'm I'm fearful why why is Cuban my my my inclination as this

has gone on and he dug his heels in so much and put out a 60,000 word tweet about the situation. Immediately, I was like, oh, he's done. Yeah. Right? Someone called Chandler Parsons right now. I was just like, oh, okay. Didn't Turk take some discounts at the end of his? Okay.

All right. Oh, I see this. So he's not defending bomber. He's defending himself about future investigations. But again, I have absolutely zero evidence to suggest that. I'm only telling you when I saw the 60, I was like, okay, you care too much about it. Yeah, he's so dug it on this. You have to remind yourself sometimes that Mark Cuban has the option to say nothing.

Right. He has the option to say nothing. Yes. but instead he's decided to be like oh no no you don't understand Pablo Torre this is how it really works let me really tell you about carbon credits and you know you buy them up front and then they plant the trees and then they're like

what are we doing dude what are we doing they didn't even plant the trees somewhere there's a field that's empty of trees yeah i just thought especially when it's somebody that's your competition again i'm only telling you feelings. I have literally no evidence to suggest. I am only telling you that when I saw it

unfold, I was like, you care too much about this, bro. Like, okay, what is going on here? It's like, they're going to avoid his contract. My initial thought was like, um, that'd be perfect for the clippers.

But then it's like, oh, the void his contract and keep the numbers on the books. It's like, oh, okay. All right. Well, look, there's been a lot of shrapnel from the Kauai lettered story that has been continuing throughout this summer, one of which is tough look for the commish. Tough. The commission, obviously, first, here's the mashup of him, first addressing said reports,

and then having to go with the front office sports guys and clear it up within a week's time. When the podcast came out, it was news to me. I frankly never heard of the company aspiration before, and I'd never heard a whiff of anything around an endorsement deal with Kauai or anything around engagement with the Los Angeles Clippers. So it was all new to me. If I said I never heard of it, I meant in the context of the accusations here.

I mean, I certainly was aware of the brand, but I didn't know anything about it. Oopsie. Yeah. His PR team has got, like, it's just been FacePalm emoji after Facebook emoji, because this came right on the heels of, of your poor ass can't watch all of our games,

but we let you watch the highlight. Yeah, we're a highlight league. I don't even watch the games. I just have to just, that's how everybody took it. I mean, it was just a grand miscalculation to address a question about how,

you know, people are going to have to spend an awful lot of money to be able to afford all the different outlets for us to be able to watch all of these games. and then your response is, well, you can watch the highlights for free. We put them on YouTube and we're kind of a highlight league. The commission had to walk that one back to him. And I'm an Adam Silver supporter.

I like him. This is a really tough spot for him because when it comes to punishment, you know, and we don't know what else is going to come out or what other, you know, what else Bob Lottori has in the six, the six revolver there. But he's going to have to punish them. pretty strongly. This cannot be a slap on the wrist thing. But he also, if he does punish very strongly, Steve Barber can hire some lawyers and say, where is proof? Yeah. And that can drag out. Like, this whole thing can just drag out for a long time. And Kauai Leonard hasn't said a work,

a word. In 15 years. If I asked someone to tell me a Kauai letter and quote That wasn't like urban legend I'll tell you when he said boardman gets paid He meant the people on the board of aspiration That's what he board man gets paid He's is a he we were all thinking rebounds He knows who really gets paid

All right Back to the Adam Silver tough week So he did the whole highlight league thing. And then we would be remiss if we did not at least hear his explanation for saying the NBA is a highlight league, which he also addressed with front office porch right after he had told them. Of course I know

aspiration. I just didn't know the context. When I said that I'd never heard of them before, I mean, I'd never heard of them before in this context. Circumbenching the cap. All right, here's the highlight league walk back. portion of the question, the end of the question, was about the impact of social media. That's what I was answering on our sport. And what I was saying in a very positive way, and I don't think it takes, I think it's additive

to those who watch our games live and increase the likelihood that they'll watch our games live. By saying highlights-based, I meant, you know, when I watch the traditional sports center, you know, and they have the top 10 plays, and five of those are NBA plays. I'm like, yeah, I'm not thinking like, oh, damn. like more highlights are being promoted from our league i mean i conventionally the reaction that was like that's really good that that you know it's a it's a live game full of highlights i i don't even know what that means i don't even know what he was trying to express what was he trying to say

we're still broke like we're trying to get peacock and devil what you're trying to order like my man My man over here can't even, he's got to buy Gotham. Oh, oh, we can't even go to the games. Forget going to the games. I can't even watch the games. No, I mean, he twisted it into, I mean, that is like, look, his PR staff is like, no, no, no, just talk about how it's awesome that all of our highlights are on. You know, there's some of these sports that don't even let your highlights be on, you know, the different stuff.

So just stay on that because, like, the whole idea is. they're on this new TV deal. It's great for the NBA, but not great for the fans. It's not even not great for the fans because like, It's not. It's fine for the fans. It costs you,

because if you want to see, if I tell you that the Lakers are playing the Nuggets on Monday night and you don't have Peacock, you can't watch it. So it's not great. It's not. I've got to have four different things in order to watch everything now. you know, that's not great.

But also get, you know, below Dech and Vanderpump rules on Peacock. She's going to watch the highlights. I'm just going to watch the highlights. I mean, I don't pay for Nets games, so I can't really talk. What, but they're bringing back Camp Thomas. You got to bring, you got to.

Oh, Camp Thomas is going to be. Camp Thomas contract year is not. You know what? You know what? I'm making a declaration right here. I am paying for the Nets games on Gotham Sports because I want to see Cam Thomas not pass the ball. And Michael Porter Jr. not pass the ball. And five rookies standing around being like, this is not what I thought the NBA would be like.

Look, the reason that we're talking about that, not because we care about the Camas Thomas Brooklyn situation. I'm about to pay six dollars a month for them or whatever. It informs our opinion on the comming up thing. Yes. Okay. Yes. So we've seen how the other restricts played out. Josh Giddy was able to get his contract.

Fair market price. And then Cominga was, he firstly rejected, according to reporting, he rejected a two-year $45 million, then a three-year $75 million with the third year's a team option. So that gives you $40. It's kind of the same deal. It's like a little, yeah. It's $48 million guaranteed. Yeah, right?

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Or a fully guaranteed. three year 54 million with no team option okay yeah so now you are really okay so here's the deal though I this is the craziest one so uh Sam amick who obviously has covered uh Sacramento forever and would certainly know that that's one of the teams that has been mentioned a great deal as a team that would be pursuant of Jonathan Kamenga it said this is And he's also covered the Warriors as well.

Been a Northern California guy forever. It says the Warriors may be reluctant to trade Jonathan Kaminga to Sacramento, partly because they fear he could become a star there, per Sam Amick. Listen, there is a sense from some people involved that there's a real reluctance to not only to finally quit on him, if you will, but also to see him go up the road to another Northern California NBA team. It's run by a guy in Vivek Redidivé who used to be with the Warriors. And what if Caminga blows up and becomes a total star?

From a personal ownership dynamic level, there are some folks that feel like that could be playing a small part. Again, that's not really relevant because these things, other things are the real obstacles. But I mean, Joe, like a lot of other owners, is very involved too. Okay, that was a quote from Sam Amick, which... Going back in time, we can remember that Joe Lakeup, like that whole story was like Jonathan Cominga, remember when he was introduced and he was like, had dinner with Joe. Like that always felt like Joe Lakeups pick, like a pet project for Joe Lakeb. So he, the owner obviously has a lot more stock in the Kaminga thing, you know, working out than the coach certainly does who didn't, wouldn't even play him in that first round playoff series.

last year and didn't until honestly they lost Curry didn't even go to him and so I don't get it right like to let's let's hash this through on one side you would sit there and you would go either you like him or you don't right well am I wrong I think they've shown they don't like it or at least Kerr okay doesn't like it okay then why not trade him? Like they don't want to trade him, but they don't want to pay him. Well,

they're offering him a three-year $75 million deal, which for me is a pretty fair price for Jonathan Cominga. Most people think, and I would agree that that is exactly what Houston, when Jalen Green signed his contract, everybody said that's a trade contract. Yes. That's exactly what I think Jonathan Kaminga knows is true.

If it's a team option, they can do whatever they want with them, screw with his minutes, if curb benches him, whatever. If it is a player option, that is a much different story. And also, if he signs the deal that is a team. option. He's sitting there going, all right, and they're going to trade me, and wherever they're going to trade me is going to pick up my team option so they can send me to frigging Siberia. And then I'm like, oh, crap. Is that so bad, but you're making $25 million a year? If you think that you should be making more already. I'm just saying, like, who's telling him that

he's worth $40 million a year? Who? I mean, who? I mean, certainly himself and his representation. There is, you can twist the numbers and say, look, Curry goes down, look what Kaminga does. Look, look how well Kaminga played in these spots. And, you know, you can twist some stats around on basketball reference to make him look really good. But he is in, he's a potential player.

He does not have a lot of proven performances that make me feel like if I was a GM of an NBA team, that I would commit $40 million dollars. which is a large percentage of the salary cap for Jonathan Cominga. I think the $25 million year average is a pretty fair market price for Jonathan Cominga. And if I was his agent, I would be like, sign it. Because what you don't want to do is play for the qualifying offer of $8 million, have a no trade clause, spend the entire year just messing up the locker room,

not playing. Steve Kerr's mad at you. You're pouting on the bench. And then your value goes down. And then you're looking at $15 a year. average from an unrestricted free agent. Like, where am I missing on this? Why is he just sign?

Well, I think I'm from, and again, you and I have the same opinion on Camango, like I would not be fearful that he's going to go off and become some kind of big talk. No, no. This feels like, and I think the reporting would back this up, that there are different camps. You know, when you got cooks in the kitchen,

that there's different opinions on what should be done with Cominga, which is exactly why the deadline is October 1st. We are to September 18th, and there has been absolutely no decision made on this. But Verno. But Verno. It's two weeks away from this deadline. Hold on, Ferno.

22nd time out. There's a huge elephant in the room. And that elephant's name is Jimmy Butler. And the reports today and yesterday are that Jimmy Butler. is making phone calls. Like, what the fuck are we doing, guys? And once Jimmy Butler starts making phone calls, something's got to get done.

Because no one knows how to tear apart team chemistry more than Jimmy Butler. And if he's unhappy and he feels like the organization is not doing right by a player or by the rest of the team, like, if Jimmy Butler starts making phone calls, something's got to happen. How can everybody, honestly, how can everybody, how can everybody, I'm not defending Jimmy Butler, but whether it's Jimmy Butler or Steph Curry or whoever, any fan of the Warriors,

all of them, including you and me, it's September 18th. Like, what are you doing? They have nine players. They have nine players. It is a totally- What if you're Al Horford.

You're like, bro, what is this going to happen? What is this off-season? Like, and honestly, Honestly, you're to the point now because it's so messy and it keeps getting messier. What's the best outcome? He signs. Really? You think Warriors fans, when they announce that Jonathan can be signed his contract are going to be like, yes.

I don't think that at all. I don't think that at all. I was thinking more as Jimmy Butler. No. If I'm Jimmy Butler, he signs, Horford signs, Milton signs. we've got a team, let's go play basketball. Oh, yeah. If you're a yes.

I was thinking of Jimmy Butler calling in front of office being like, let's do something. If it's 75, make it 80, make this go away. Or start a company that plants trees and pay him that way, whatever you have to do. I mean, we're either doing this with Jonathan Gaminger or we're not. And like, are we going to make it a trade? Or we're going to like, why is it September 18th? Yeah. Everybody else got done like months ago.

I should have been on the beach applying SPF, thinking about what I'm going to grill tonight when this decision was made. Not like, what are you doing for Halloween? You know what I mean? Trading Kim starts in 10 days. Yes.

What are we doing? I ultimately think he's going to sign a three-year deal with a team option. It's going to be $80 million. That's what's going to be. That's how I think it's going to play out. It used to be a trade, sign a trade. He used to take the qualifying offer? This is where we're going to end up.

I think he ends up trading. To where? For what? I just don't think if he was going to be a, I don't think he wants to be a warrior. I don't think so. And I don't think they want him to be a warrior, but they're back in this corner. So what are we doing? I don't know.

He doesn't want to be there. He doesn't want to be there. They don't really want him there. Steve Kurt doesn't want him there. Steve Kerr was giving him DMPs in big spots. I know. And Steve Kerr has got to be, you know, Jimmy Butler is calling the front office. Steve Kerr's got to be calling the front office being like,

I don't want this player. So you think he signs there. I think they finally find a trade. Then you get 60 cents on the dollar. I don't, I have to say, I'm not. If you get a player that Steve Kerr would theoretically put in the game in the playoffs,

I don't know if it's 60 cents on the dollar. Again, you've made your decision that you've got your coach, right? So if I get a player that, He would put in the game in a big playoff spot. That's better than I. I mean, they obviously, they rejected like Malik Munk. Don't tell me Malik Muck couldn't be in a playoff game because he could.

I'm a big fan of Mink. But I don't think, I'm, we'll do our season preview stuff. I'm low on the Warriors. I don't think Al Horford fixes this team. It's like, oh, we got Al Horford. Now we're championship contenders. We'll do that later. We'll do that later.

that would be a Horford guy at age 45. Oh, when Jimmy Butler and Steph Curry played together is one of the best defenses in the league. I just think that's all like, I think they're just playing all playoff games down the stretch. I'm, I'm selling Warrior stock right now.

All right. Well, is that, is that, and that is not dependent at all on whether or not Jonathan Kamenga is wearing a uniform. It's, it's terrible if he is,

it's terrible if he's not. Like, there's no good outcome here. Everyone's losing. Everyone's losing. losing. Speaking of everyone losing,

or is there a winner? In the Battle of Words going on between Patrick Beverly and Trey Young, podcast wars.

So Patrick Beverly went out of his way to be smirch, Trey Young, and also say that he doesn't win enough and that he doesn't

try in the All-Star game. And also, I've talked to people in Atlanta and they don't like that. That's the part.

I think that's the part that really hit. Of course it does. We've all heard these rumors. Don't actually you've never heard the rumors. We've heard, you've heard them, I've heard them that there are certain people that play with Trey Young that don't like playing with Trey Young, right?

This is not like breaking news. There's been murmurs for years about this, right? I will forever love Pat Bev, I'm sure I've told the story before. I did television with him and he's wearing white jeans. And then I saw an internet video of him playing at West 4th Street, pick up basketball against strangers in the same white jeans two hours later. And that to me is just like, this guy is a basketball God as far as I'm concerned.

I watched all 12 minutes of the Trey Young response. Okay, hold on. We'll give a little context to it. Here's a snippet of what you watched with Trey Young. You said it. You went to the playoffs nine times. I've only been to the playoffs three. You're right.

You have six more playoff appearances than me. Let's bring us some more facts. You've been to one conference finals. I've been to one conference finals. What year was that for you? Just another fact. Year 9. The year I made it was year 3.

Just a fact. You want to know another one? You average seven points and two is... I don't even know how I'm doing this. That was the best part. That was the best part. Let's get into some more facts, actually. You talk about a winner.

What have you won? Tell me, what have you won? And don't respond with that, like, Like sympathy, I won in life, I won in basketball because you did, man. You made it to the NBA. It's very few, many people that can say that. But at the same time, bro, it's levels to this shit. It's different timetables.

I get it. You talk about winning and impacts winning and all these things. You've been on some teams with some big time players. How about I go through a list of these guys? LeBron, Yannis, Kauai Leonard, Paul George, Ant Man Cat. We're not even going to talk about how we're going to talk about how we're going to we celebrate playing wins. I win playing games on the road

and I'm ready to get to the playoffs. You win playing games at home and you're standing on the scores table acting like it's a championship. We celebrate wins different too. That was tough. That was a tough one. I love that.

Going after his playing win against the clippers. One of the things I loved is Trey Young is like Pat Beb is doing like a professional podcast. I think it's for Barstool. And I like that. I like that pod.

I see the clips. It's you know. And I like him. I don't know him personally. We did TV together like twice. But Trey Young clearly is not, he doesn't have a home studio. Someone just bought a microphone. He's like, I have to respond to this.

And my favorite part is in the middle of the whole thing. He's like, I don't even know why I'm doing this. Like he was disgusting with himself halfway through being like, why did I prepare all these facts? Why am I responding to Pat Bev? This is beneath me. I shouldn't be doing this. And that was when made him so relatable because he's a little uncomfortable in front of the

microphone. The lighting was weird. He was just kind of like a little awkward, but he felt like he had to respond. And the part that you played when he's like, I don't even know why I'm doing this was the biggest diss that he had. Forget all the facts. Wait, Jacoby, he has a podcast. Trey Young does?

Yeah. Who doesn't have a podcast? He does. He does. He has a podcast? Yeah. I mean, he announced he had one, like last year. At the end of the clip, he was like, wait until I take this podcast and stuff seriously.

That was like the last thing he said on this. It's an 11-minute clip. I don't think he has a podcast. I have no idea. I assume everybody has a podcast. But he was not. Look, I think if you are, and this is one thing I will say about NBA podcast. I want one of two things.

I got to be honest. Either tell funny stories. Jeff Teeth. And, yes, and be self-deprecating. that Teague has hit this out of the park. He's the best at it, right? Or, like, I do like the talking mad shit. Like, if you're just going to talk crazy about each other,

like I do, I know, again, it's great. Like, I will say that I do quite enjoy the controversy aspect of it, right? I do want to say there is a third box that I'll put this in as I do. I don't watch the LeBron James, like Steve Nash, like mind the game stuff. But I like the idea of like going hard X's and O's. let's take the fans behind the curtain on like what we're really thinking in terms of strategy. I like that too.

Even though you don't watch. Even though I don't watch it. I see the clips online. You don't really like it. You just, in theory, I like. Sounds like the right thing to say. Yes, yeah. It's like caviar.

It's like, yeah. In theory, I like it, but when I taste it, I'm like, oh, this is gross. All right. So are you team Pap, or you Trey Young? I'm team drama, man. I'm team toxicity.

I'm team beef. I'm team drama. I'm team give us something to talk about in September. I think that they're in very different positions career-wise. So it's very difficult to say that Pat Bev is a more effective basketball player than Trey Young. But part of Pat Bev's whole thing is like, I'm a dog, I'm the best player in the world. I can defend anybody. I'm a champion.

And I like that. I think they're both playing their role. I will say I don't think he wouldn't mind if I speak out of school. I was at an event earlier this evening. Tony Allen was there, so I talked to him about it. Of course. I mean,

there's a direct correlation between Tony Allen and Pappet. I had to. This is what he said. He said, the one thing I didn't like about Pappen, he goes, because he does a podcast too. out the mud with Zach Randolph.

And he said, when I was a player and when Trey's a player and like when you're a player, the one thing that drives you crazy is people shitting on you with a source. That drives you crazy. That's why we end up hating the media.

He goes, an unnamed source, we'll say that. He said, so I don't like that Pepb did that. I don't like that like now you're in the media. you know what I mean like now you're doing a podcast like because we we were those guys in that locker room and when the little white nerdy guys wrote their articles saying a source told me that there's right he doesn't practice hard yeah yeah because that would be it would always it would bother you to know when because then you're looking around like who's saying that about me right and he's like so just as being on the other side of it the unnamed. source is such a, for lack of a better term, source of indignation from players towards media that when, like, and, and Tray Young said, say who said that? He did say that.

Yeah, yeah. Say who said that. Say it. Say who said that. Who said that they didn't like playing with me? Who said that I'm a bad leader? Who said that I'm not a winner, right? Like, John Collins. I was like, what? Honestly, there would be nothing funnier. There would be nothing funnier than if Pat Vib said, fine, John Collins. Sorry, John. I understand if you blocked my number now.

We've all heard it. That would be the best. That would be the best. All right. Couple things that we got to get to before we get out of here. Thank you for Pat Bev and Trey Young for providing us with the concept. Yeah, we really appreciate that. Oh, one thing I do want to say, oh, one thing I do want to say, just to spin it to basketball,

because I watched this whole 12-minute thing. At the end, he's like, he was naming, he's like, Jalen Johnson's going to have an all-star season. He's like, I can get ready for this. Jailen Johnson is going to have the first all-star season. We got Chris Staps, healthy. We got Nikila, Alexandra Walker. And I was thinking about it.

I was like, I mean, I knew all these things. Like, we've all like seen the transactions or whatever. But to hear Trey Young sort of like go down the list is like Reese a Shea or whatever, I was like, I don't know, man. This year's basers might be the Hawks. It's just a little light when it gets to the bench. And the bigs. I think you're relying on a lot from a congo and Chris.

And you catch a couple injuries. I mean, you don't really have. the infrastructure behind it, in my opinion. But to hear him say it, I was like, he's like, I can get ready for the season. I think he said something about a championship. It's totally fair to say, their starting lineup,

if they can remain intact and they can play a large amount of games, the starting lineup is as good as virtually any. And if Risa Shea takes a leap, Jalen Johnson takes a leap. Outside of New York. Dyson Daniels, like, what are we doing? Like, they got a team. Outside of New York.

they're stronger than anybody. They're just starting line. We want to see it. I want to see them play basketball together, but in theory. Collection of town. And he mentioned out loud. He wasn't just talking about Pep,

Ed the whole time. I was, it was just kind of like, it hit me. I was like, man, this is a reason to be very happy if you were a Hawks fan.

How about another team that if it all did work, if it all did work, they might have, they may surprise people. What if, what is your confidence? confidence level in in shape, Embed.

Acted VJ Edgecombe, you know, the Jared, what's his name? McCain, uh, Maxie McCain, Edgecombe, Paul George, George, Joel would be like, it's like, I, got players. I don't know. What did you make of the pitchers? I was shocked. he looks like he's down a bunch of weight. He does.

M. B. He really does. He looks like, I mean, a lot of times you will see these pictures in the summer and be like, okay. Like,

Luca and Embed are both ones that you see them and you're like, all right, that ain't an angle. Like, they're just way smaller than they were. Yeah. I just have, I've,

Luka, Embed and Zion are in the same camp for me. It's like, I just have no faith that you can stay on the court. I just have none. I don't care how much weight you lose. I don't care how good you look in the offseason. I do not care.

I have no faith that you can stay on the court. It's no fault of yours. It's just your bodies. Are your knees just shot? Yeah. It doesn't matter if you're lighter. Okay, maybe it'll help you have a little less pain, but you're still going to wake up every morning and your knees are going to be sore,

and that's just the way it's going to be forever. And you talk about Luca losing weight. Like, Luca is always injured. I don't think I've seen Luca play a game where he, wasn't ailed in some way, shape, or form. Right. But he stays on the court. He does.

And MB does not stay on the court, and the Sixers do not win games. So, like, I'm just not, I'm sorry. I was, I did this last season. I thought the Sixers were going to be good. A couple other rapid fires. Michael Malone, full time at ESPN. We like? I do.

I like Michael. I'll go ahead and answer. I like this. And I do think that he is a good. element to bring to ESPN coverage. Yeah, he's like a New York guy. He's from Long Island. His dad was a coach or something.

Like, I think he could be a very good. I think he could be a very good analyst. I also think he will end up back in coaching. And this could very well be shorter lived than you want to. This is a Bill Belichick thing where it's like, get me in front of the camera, keep me on people's minds,

and then I'll go coach. Well, and I'm going to go ahead and get paid off. I'm going to let them pay me for not coaching. Yeah. Have you, has anyone reached out to you for coaching positions? No. Yeah, we're in the media. We're in NBA media.

No one's ever. NBC is going to allow or are going to have NBA analyst court side by teams benches. This is something they do in hockey. In a takeoff of inside the glass, which is gone on in hockey, NBC sports said this week that it's going to situate its NBA analysts by the team benches for some games this season. They announced that it will station its NBA game analyst courtside by the team benches for some telecast this season in an effort and it's calling it an industry first. Analysts are going to be able to listen into team huddles and provide firsthand information from the bench, presumably much the same way as a sideline. reporter.

Who is going to get the most pissed off about this? Oh, I think this is Emily Kaplan that does this with hockey on ESPN, where she's like in between the two benches, sort of like, Darry and Pang did it too, didn't he? Yeah, I don't know. Let's go down to panger.

Yeah, and then they're like, well, guess whatever. It's one of those things where it's kind of like, micing the coaches. Like, we can't, they can't say the good stuff. They're not going to come out of a time out and be like, well, they're running a play for Austin. Reeves to come off of a screen on the left side. Like, they can't say that.

Right. So, like, what, it would be more fun to hear the analysts get hazed by the players and just that interaction of just, like, being mean to each other will be more fun than what the information we get from the analyst is. And also, I have a question. Listen, maybe I haven't, like, seen the full logistics of how this all works. I know you're very close to some of the huddle sometimes. Isn't this called sideline reporter?

Yes. Isn't this the exact same role that we've seen for 40 years of watching NBA basketball? Yeah. Now, I will say one one caveat that could make me care about this a great deal. Now, again, this is one of those like broadcast innovations. Let's let it play out. And then we'll decide, right? We can't know.

I have no idea. But I think this already existed. It's renamed the sideline. press release, but I will say, if you want to get me super interested, here, I'm going to get you on the hook. You want to get super interested? Talks. The NBC is announcing that there's going to be an analyst by the bench that will be able to listen into Team Huddles and. Michael Jordan.

That's what I was going to say. Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan. Michael Jeffrey Jordan. I just put it together to myself. Sign me up. I'm all the way in. If he's just looking over the huddle with his arms crossed,

like shaking his head, like, I don't know. I don't know, guys. So you're your coach, you got Tu-O-Moss over there. Yeah. Some finished dude, looking up in Michael Jordan's yellow eyeballs. And being like, I don't know what to do, dude.

Michael Jordan's right there. I'm getting nervous. Imagine if they, Imagine if they call Michael Jordan. They're like, all right, we figured out what your gig's going to be. He'd be like, what? I'm in. Now I'm 100% in.

If it's Michael Jordan, I'm sold. But to me, that just sounds like a sideline reporter like we've always had. It's a good press release. Another of the quick hitters. I want to quote you longtime New York media member Ian Beggley. that there's strong support within the Nix organization to retire Carmelo Anthony's number. That's what he said. I know there was strong support internally within MSG to retire Anthony's number.

In checking around about this over the last couple of weeks, I could say that there remains strong support internally for retiring the number. Again, I can't say with 100% certainty that the Nix will retire his number, but the internal discussions about the topic have continued in recent weeks, the decision to retire or not to retire, Anthony's number will ultimately be made by owner James Dolan. Well, that is, that comes. There's no surprise to anyone.

The reason that this becomes a topic is because Carmelo Anthony just got his induction into the Hall of Fame. As a Knicks fan, do you believe that Carmelo Anthony's numbers should be hanging in the rafters at Madison Square Garden? Yes. You do? I do. Okay. So you would be in favor of this.

If they announced we are retiring Carmelo Anthony's number, you would be in favor of it. I think a lot of the argument against would be where the playoff success is, where are the other banners in those rafters that he brought the franchise. But I think none of that was really his fault. A lot of injury stuff, roster construction, front office, turmoil. There was so much going on. But also, I just want to make it clear,

they put Harry Stiles in the rafters at Madison Square Garden. So if Harry Styles can be up there, we're not going to put Carmelo up there. The complete list of retired numbers in Madison Square Garden. Walt Frazier, Dick Barnett, Earl Monroe, Dick McGuire, Willis Reed, Dave DeBus Busher, Bill Bradley, Patrick Ewing, Red Holtzman. That's it. Earl Monroe,

friend of the family. Uncle Earl. It's my wedding. What? My mother-in-law is close friends with Marita Monroe who's his lady. Uncle Earl. I have met Earl Monroe. I've had him in studio before and I

was an absolute stunned disbelief at me a little he's not big at all right he's hunched over a little bit in his old age amazing personality oh yeah uncle he was so cool he went to your wedding yeah that is marita monroe is is like auntie marita's in my wife that is so worth bragging about yeah i didn't have anybody at mine I had two buddies and my dad and my parents. And like, so when we got varied and how about this, we did it like real small. We're just like, we're just doing this thing small. And we're just getting married, right? We're getting married.

We're doing it small. It'll be family and two friends. That's the best way to do it. Family and a couple of friends, right? Best way to do it. Yeah, except I look up at my wedding and I was like, who are these people? She's like, I'm sorry. My mom invited people.

Got out of control. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, the deal was. Elan's mom has been planning for that day for 50, you know, for 30 years. I was like the deal was there was going to, it's like two friends and the family. No. We had a star-studded wedding. None of the celebrities were invites of mine.

Let's just say that. That's amazing. None of them whatsoever. Before we get out of here, did you see Luca Donchich say. He actually, like, opened up in a recent interview and gave, like, some little known facts about him. He was, like, super into gymnastics as a kid and whatever else in this new interview. Also mentioned that he, there was a movie he had watched 10 to 15 times. The town.

Him in John Mazzula. Do you not know what movie this is? Yes, on the rundown. Oh, you, did you look up what movie? movie it is? I have twin daughters who are nine years old. High school musical. It is high school musical. Have you seen it? You've got a

daughter? I have never watched it. I've walked into the room. I might be mistaken on this. And I think Zach Ephron is in it. He is. And I was like, is that Zach Ephron? And they're like, yes. I was like, he's in this movie? I was like, what the

hell? I'm not of the age where I care to watch high school musical with my young children or I'm too old to care about high school musical when it came out. So I kind of like missed that gap. So it's not something to me. So it applies to me as well. Yeah.

But if you're Lucas age, it was a thing. There's a two, there's a three. They came out of a ton of these things. Right. I am, I can't believe that Luca Donutsch had watched that 10 to 15 times. How many movie? Let's, let's say he's not exaggerate. Okay.

Let's just take him at face value. that he did. He liked that as a kid. He liked the music, and he watched that movie a tonne. Luke Dodger, one of the greatest basketball players in the world. How many movies do you think you have seen 10 times?

I'm saying you've seen that movie 10 times. So I thought about this. And I'm not, I love the rewatchables on the Ringar Network. I don't rewatch movies at high quantity as a practice. But the movies that come to mind, the things that came to mind are VHS tapes that I absolutely burned out, burned out.

And the two that came to mind are the first and second and one mixtapes. Remember those? Oh. I've watched those over and over and over. Like 50, 60 times. 50, 60 times. The two that were VHS ones for me

would have been come fly with me, the Jordan one. Yeah. I watched that a thousand times. And dazzling dunk to basketball bloopers. Oh, I forgot about that. Marv Albert and Frank Layden. Yeah.

So those. Oh, I watched it a thousand times. I didn't own either of those. The other one that I watched was banned from TV. Do you remember that? Oh, banned from TV. Oh, what simpler times. And from TV.

It was just basically things you can't show on television, which is like murders and boobs. And I've watched that a million times. Simpler times. A million times. But the movie, to answer the question, the movie I've seen the most is Goodfellas. If Goodfellas is on,

and when I used to have cable and I would scroll the guide, which I really miss, remember scrolling the guide? What's on TV? I'll scroll the guy. Did you have one? that you watched like when you stayed home from school? No, we didn't have a lot. We didn't have like a deep VHS collection when I was kid.

For sure, I did the Princess Bride. I bet I've seen the Princess Bride 20 times. Easy. More, more. I watch it every, I mean, and interestingly enough, lean on me. The Morgan Freeman Principal movie. Oh, I thought you meant, oh, I thought you meant, oh, I thought you meant stand by me. Oh, no.

Lean on me. I've never seen lean on me in my whole entire. Not once. Not once. The principal movie. Dr. Joe Clark. Joe Clark's going to come in and clean up the school.

Does he carry a baseball bat around the hall here? Yeah. Joe Clark. I love that movie. I loved it. I loved it. Oh, man. They have to sing the school song at the bathroom,

Ferryside. So I love it. I'm going to end the part of the personal story that I probably shouldn't share. My wife is a director of talking. Metries, he's working in the industry for a long time. I've seen her Emmys. Interviewed Morgan Freeman. A little weird.

You did? No, he was a little weird. Little... You interviewed it. No, my wife did. Oh. He was a little... Oh, torts her.

Yeah, like, hey man. Like, I wasn't there, obviously. You thought he should chill out. It's like, yeah, you're like 70, dude. You think he should chill out. I mean, like, what are you doing? The camera's rolling in your mind. baked up. Like, what, what are you doing?

He's the voice of God, bro. Not in my house. Not the voice of God in my house. Not the voice of God. Look at Morgan Freeman. Try to steal your wife. Mr. Steal your girl, Morgan Freeman. Google Morgan Freeman. Google Morgan Freeman.

It's not, he's got a checker, checker history when it comes to the ladies. I mean, you're not going to make me hate lean on me. No, but I'll make you think twice about God in a lot of ways. I'm just, it's a. movie about a principal, man. He's got a baseball bat. Now I got to watch it and think about him hitting on Joey. It's ridiculous.

You just tried to ruin Morgan Freeman for me? Morgan Freeman is ruined for me. And for good reasons, so I want to ruin him for everybody else. You either care about Morgan Freeman or you care about David Jacoby. Pick aside. Pick aside. This is like the new trait at Pat Bow. Yeah.

Don't at me, Morgan Freeman. Who's your source? I'll record a 12-minute podcast about you. all right so you're doing for this week's show thank you to our executive producer Jesse Lopez as always Jacoby I'll talk to you next week