The Mismatch - AD’s New Bag, Paolo Vs. Melo, and Is This the Hawks' Last Chance With Trae?

Episode Date: August 8, 2023

Verno and KOC react to Anthony Davis’s historic contract extension and explain why this was the right move for both AD and the Lakers (01:37). Also, the guys continue to answer your mailbag questions! This week features questions on Cade Cunningham, Jeremy Sochan, parenting, and more (08:08). Got a question for Verno and KOC? Send them an email at [e-mail]! Or you can send the guys a tweet @ChrisVernonShow and @KevinOConnorNBA! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Football is around the corner and we are ramping it up over here on the Ringer NFL feed in the month of August. Every week, Ben Solac and I will be bringing you not one but two extra point takens. That's right, double the trouble as we predict, debate and analyze our way through camp and the preseason every Monday and Friday. But that is not all. Stephen Ruiz and I will be coming to you every Wednesday. We'll talk about everything in the world of the NFL. And who knows, maybe Stephen will even have something nice to say about your favorite squad. Though frankly, I wouldn't count on it.

Subscribe to The Ringer NFL show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. And be sure to follow the Ringer NFL on Instagram, TikTok, and Twitter at Ringer NFL. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me see does every Monday night from The Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, A.K.K.A. Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Connell. Summer. How are you doing, man? It is summer. There have been a couple of things that have taken place since we last spoke. now as of recording this evening, we will have not have seen the scrimmage for Team USA. So we don't know if any news is going to come out of that.

But a couple of the Team USA teams are in action this summer, and we're getting glowing reports about those. A couple of things that have happened since we last spoke. The first of which is the Anthony Davis extension took place since we last spoke, a monster extension for Anthony Davis. His new contract is going to be three years, $186 million that brings his total contract value to $270 million through 2028,

and it becomes the richest annual contract extension in NBA history, averaging $62 million a season. It's a lot of money. 35 when he hits free agency. We said that, you know, with the Jalen Brown thing hit, well, he'll be the biggest contract until the next biggest contract. And now we've just got to get used to seeing these kind of numbers for the great players in the league. But what do you make of the Lakers and this extension with Anthony Davis?

So first thought, Chris, is this is a lot of money for a guy who, who's averaged 50 games over the last five seasons. I think with Anthony Davis, that's the number one concern here. It always has been. This is a guy who struggles with durability, staying on the floor, finishing games. And like for the Lakers, that was a thing early in last season. Me and Bill Simmons recorded a podcast talking about Anthony Davis trades.

And then he turned it on. And then he became the dominant defender, the guy who was one of the best defenders in all of basketball, who can switch across positions. defend different schemes, who offers the type of interior scoring and secondary handling that the Lakers need. But at the same time, like, this is definitely a risk, but it's a risk that they have to take. As great as AD is on defense, they have to invest this money on him.

They cannot do better than they can end with Anthony Davis. And it's similar to our Jalen Brown discussion too. With Brown, what did we talk about? Retaining the asset, spinning it forward, trying to continue winning with the Tatum Brown Corps. And then if it doesn't work, maybe you can trade Jalen Brown. With the Lakers, it's a little bit different. 80 is older.

He's significantly more injury prone. He doesn't offer the on-ball creation that Jalen Brown does to an extent. But you've got to do this if you're the Lakers. And yes, we just have to get used to these absolutely massive contract numbers. Well, and the truth is, you very rarely get into a situation where a contract becomes immovable. even Russell Westbrook's deal got moved. John Wall, maybe the only one, you know, that I can remember in recent history that, like,

you really just could not move that. But they did move it. You know, I mean, Washington did move it. And so I don't know, man, like he's a great player when he plays. What are the chances he plays more games from 32 to 35, then he played from 27 to 32, you know, I know. That's the scary part about this, right? And, you know, like I think with E.D., the other part of it,

we just saw in that Lakers Nugget series, game one, he got punked by Yokic. And then game two for the rest of the series, they had to have him defend away from the ball, which was fine, because A.D. can still be a dominant force not defending the opponent's best player. 80 can play that shape shift and play different types of roles and make a significant impact. But yes, it would be nice if you could have him defend the opponent's best offensive player, Nicola Yochich. I just think for the Lakers, they had to do this. And as the team evolves in the years to come, he has such a potent weapon in the pick and roll.

He is one of the best lob finishers of all time. He can catch the ball on the short roll and dribble his way to the basket and make the right play off to dribble if he needs to pass it. And you think about as LeBron ages, and you have all these other guards you've added, you have Gabe Vincent now, you got Austin Reeves who should play a bigger role, you still have D. Loback. These are a lot of pick and roll creators in your team. And Anthony Davis is a vital weapon as an option to pass to in those situations, creating easier shot opportunities for your teammates. So even though AD isn't necessarily the on-ball, you know, dominant second creator that, you know, ideally, you'd like to have next to LeBron James. He still is, as you said, Chris,

when he's on the floor, one of the best defensive players in the world. You had to do it. And no question that this is a reflection of what he did in the playoffs. He was absolutely awesome in the playoffs. Sometimes we get stuck on what we saw last. He was downright dominant

in multiple games against Memphis, in multiple games against Golden State. And he had a great, great playoffs and was available the entire way through. And there's that juxtaposition between that and the guys across the street that we talked about in an earlier episode this summer, which is what do you do if you're the clippers in terms of extension eligible players, Kauai Leonard and Paul George, who also have the same issue, which is being unavailable. But the difference is when it mattered most, Anthony Davis was available last year. and those guys weren't and haven't been available what it mattered most. And so make no mistake, I think this is in large part a much easier decision for the Lakers because of what he did in those six to eight weeks in the spring when they were making it to the Western Conference finals.

And so again, I agree with you. It's just like we said about Jalen Brown. You can't lose the ass at. And why do you want a disgruntled player? Like, just sign the extension and then you can figure it out from there. And who knows what post-Lebron life is going to be like for the Lakers. But at least you know you got one awesome player, no matter what, right? No matter what, you got at least one awesome player on your team, assuming he plays.

Cade Cunningham has gotten good reviews. Jalen Duren has gotten good reviews, Jaron Jackson, Jr. has gotten very good reviews, a couple different guys that have gotten reviews from these Team USA camps that are going on right now. And we got a bunch of different mailbag questions, one of which is going to deal with those first two guys that I mentioned. Ravi from Australia asked us, how do you see the upcoming 23, 24 season for Detroit? I firmly believe that if Cade would have stayed healthy throughout the season and what we saw from Ivy and Duren, they could have 30 to 35 wins,

putting them with Orlando's and the Indiana's, and the best possible case being closer to Chicago's, 40 wins. What do you think? We're getting really good reviews on Cade Cunningham, looking very good. Steve Kerr wanted Cade to do a, quote, Luca impression. Saw some of the other guys in Summer League.

As I mentioned, Duren's gotten good reviews. uptick for our guy in Australia's Detroit Pistons this upcoming year. Monty Williams, new coach. It does seem like a Chris. Like Cade, he said he's 100% healthy after missing, you know, what, since last November, December, whenever is seasoned with surgery, Cade looks more like himself, looks more explosive. And it's kind of cool that Steve Kerr has had him.

I mean, clearly they're preparing, you know, USA for Slovenia facing Luca. So that's why they're having Kate essentially be like their pro personnel scouting team, you know, for their scout team to prepare for Luca. And Kate has the body. He has the size. He has the playmaking. He can get to the rim. So he's a pretty good player to do that. I think with the Pistons, man, I mean, we've, for a couple of years now, they've been one of our bright future teams.

Yep. You know, like, we've really liked the Pistons. But it all comes down to Kate Cunningham. And it comes down to him continuing to expand his game. We already know what he can do as a passer. We know what he can do driving to the basket. And we know what he can do from mid-range, but the one thing he hasn't really done,

aside from his lone year in college, is shoot threes well. And if this can be the year where he can successfully start shooting threes well off the catch and off the dribble, that's going to, I think, open up even more dimensions of his game when you consider the fact that Detroit has so many other handlers on their team. They just drafted Thompson. They had Ivy last year,

who ended the season incredibly well, the Pistons have a lot of playmakers aside from Cade. And if Cade can be a guy who thrives with and without the ball, which I believe he can, he has that IQ, he has that feel-off ball, and he has the on-ball ability, then yeah, Detroit is a team geared to potentially take a leap when you factor in as well. Like you said, Duren, very good.

They have some solid front court players. They're becoming one of those teams that if you're looking in the east, like I was thinking last night, who's next? You know, like you got Boston, you got Milwaukee, you got Miami, you got Philly.

These older teams or teams that are grizzled and have experienced, which team is next to take a leap? Obviously, Cleveland, Cleveland's right up there.

They already did, though. Yeah, but they didn't, like, become championship contender. But I think of the non-playoff teams. Detroit, they get the pieces.

Orlando as well, right? Orlando too, teams that are non-playoff teams that we think are on. the come up. Indiana too. Indiana as well. The team, it's really more like who doesn't. Washington doesn't yet. Charlotte doesn't yet. But Detroit, Orlando, Indiana, those teams of the non-play-in, the non-top ten, they're the ones who have the pieces, I'd say, of the bottom five.

And I actually agree with our emailer that if Cade would have been healthy last year, I think they would have been solidly in that mix with the Orlando's and the Indiana's, maybe not Indiana as much because they were such a huge surprise until Halliburton got hurt last year. But, you know, I look up and down their roster, they're not going to suck. They got Cade, they got Ivy, they got Duren, they got Thompson, all these like young, mega-promising guys. So if two of them hit as awesome players, then you're on to something. And then you still got these wild cards in like Wiseman, Bagley, your guy Killian, You know, they got little role players like Diallo.

But then they got like some solid vets. Monti Morris, Joe Harris, Bogdanovich, Alec Burks. Like those are solid-ass vets that can give you minutes and play and control a locker room and can space the floor for guys that are pretty dynamic with the ball in their hands. And so that's kind of the difference between them and say Charlotte. Charlotte doesn't really have those veterans as much.

as the supportive pieces for the young players. But, you know, I think a lot of these young teams in the East, there's reason to feel hope. But the Pistons, despite winning 17 games, like you said, no Cade. Yeah, they strike me as like Oklahoma City, maybe even a few years ago, where it's like, if you take them lightly, they're beating you. The night that you go in and your guys go out until 2 in the morning,

and they say, all right, they chalked Detroit up as a win, they're going to catch a lot of teams, a lot of teams like that. And you're probably going to see a bunch of highlights of like Cade and Ivy and like these kind of guys game winners at the end where somebody's dicked around with them. They think they're going to be able to turn it on in the fourth quarter and put them away. And they're going to catch a lot of teams off guard just because they're going to be better than teams will give them credit for. And you only get to do that really once where you get to go through the league and everybody

take you lightly. But because they sucked so bad last year, they will be taken lightly. But I don't think they're going to be terrible. I don't. I think that was like the last go-round of being terrible last year. We got so many awesome questions in our mailbag. We got emails from Denmark, my Denmarkian friends. We got Poland, New Zealand, Australia, Greece, Israel, Croatia.

We got a bunch. Damon asked us, the Oklahoma City Thunder will be a home court advantage team next season. That's true. That might be true. That's ridiculous. Oh, he wants to get involved in the game. Yeah, we got a couple of those questions with the game. Our world famous game show.

Look, I think we're going to have the same answer on this, which is it might be true. It might be true. It's a long shot. I went and looked. And last year, here's what I'd say. on the positives, we're both very high on them, but maybe getting too high. They had 40 wins. The 45 was the number you needed to be home court advantage last year.

It's not unfathomable to get the 45. It's not, but Denver, Memphis, Dallas, Phoenix, New Orleans, Sack. I mean, I put all those teams as chance with home court advantage. So that gives you a... And then if you threw Oklahoma City in there, you'd have, I mean, now you're up to seven teams for four slides. There's a lot of teams, Chris. Well, and I'm only, and look, I think maybe, you know,

maybe one of those, you know, vet teams has a good season, but you just kind of think that the clippers and the Lakers and the Warriors, they don't care deeply about having to be a home court advantage team at this point in their trajectory. Their most important thing is keep the guys healthy, making sure guys are healthy, and they spend a fortune on a few players. So if they miss any amount of time, it's tough on them. Now, with Oklahoma City winning as many games they did last year, I will say,

they had incredible health. They got Gildes Alexander Kev for 68 games, Giddy 76, Jalen Williams, Then they had three other guys on their team that played 65 or more. So while there was this, oh God, they didn't have Chet for the whole season, they did have a good portion of their best players for virtually the whole season. And that is just such a huge, huge advantage. If you lose even one of those guys for a huge chunk of time, it becomes much, much harder to win games.

And so that was such a incredibly healthy season, despite losing Chet last year, that I think they're going to be good. I think they're going to be a playoff team. I mean, I got to say might just because it could happen, and it could be like sack last year, but I think it's a long shot for them to be home one of the top four. I think you nailed it, Chris. They get a chance, but they need a lot to break right for them.

And they're a young team, even if they're not home court, they could be the five seed, they could be the sixth seat. they might be a guaranteed playoff spot rather than the play-in. That's a much safer way to say that's true rather than that might be true. But even then, the question from Damon were about, is it a guaranteed playoff spot top six seed? Even that would still be that might be true. Because there's just so many teams in the Western Conference

that actually have a chance to make the postseason, and there's the teams that could make moves. Whether it's Portland keeping Dame, whether it's Utah using some of their assets to go get like a Seacom-level player, New Orleans making trades. Who knows? There's a lot that could change with some of those teams more in the play-in bubble.

So that might be true. It's true for Oklahoma City. You could totally see them being a little bit lower, but a team you don't want to face because they're dangerous. And they've got a bunch of good players, and if those guys take another leap forward as a group and they're healthy,

we certainly have been on that Oklahoma City team and the future that they have. Stu from England, big magic fan. Hollow Bancaro will be better than Carmelo Anthony when he reaches his peak. Yikes. That's true. That might be true. That's ridiculous.

That might be true. Might be true. But borderline ridiculous. Let's give Carmelo the respect that he deserves. Oh, thank God you're doing this. He was voted in NBA 75. player and say what you want about Carmelo with some of the shortcomings on defense as a passer with efficiency, whatever you want to say about Carmelo. The dude was an all-star for 10 times,

six-time all-NBA. The guy was a scoring champion. He's one of the best scorers that I've seen in my entire lifetime. So that might be true, would assume that Paulo Becara becomes a high-level score and a primary playmaker on his team, and far better than one of the worst perimeter scorers in basketball last season as a rookie and far better as a defender. That might be true. He's like a top pick in the draft. He's number one.

He's a great young player. But like it's that is borderline ridiculous to assume anybody will be better than one of the 75 best ever. Well, and look, you knocked out the different accolades. that he had gotten, I mean, for a better part of truly a decade, every night. So he played like 19 years. So you forget what he was for 10 friggin years. Every night he was 25 to 30 points. Yep.

And seven rebounds. Every night. Every night. Every night. And you do that for 10 frigging years? There are only, here's the list of. guys that have scored more points in the NBA than Carmelo Anthony. LeBron James, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Carl Malone, Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan, Dirk,

Wilt, Shack. That's it. There's only eight guys ever. And you can say, oh, well, he didn't win nothing. And he did, like, that dude was a professional scorer. And the whole point of basketball that sometimes gets lost is to put the ball. in the basket. And for a decade, he did it as well as anyone.

And so I feel like these last two questions have really take advantage of things that we're very high on. But now it's like that moment where we got to like the record scratches or we got to like pump the brakes. It's like, hey, we really like OKC. We think OKC's on the come up. We're really, we like, we see a lot of promise in OKC. Oh, yeah?

Well, how about home court advantage? They're like, oh, hold on now. And then it's like, man, Paulo Bancaro, this guy can be one of the best players in the league. This guy has got it all. Really liked what we saw in his rookie year. And if he gets better and he starts to figure it out, whoa now. Like, oh, yeah, well, he's going to be better at Carmelo Anthony.

Like, he'll be better than, like, slow down. Like, you can still be amazing and not have the career Carmelo Anthony had. I mean, I'm really high on Paolo. I'm really high on it. I think he's great. And I think he's going to be great. And I think he could be one of the best players in the league. He's at least showed some promise to be the best player on a championship team.

Maybe one day. Could. But Carmelo Anthony was like, as you said, 10-time All-Star, six-time All-MBA. If Paulo Banerro does that, then... Boy, you've had a career, but that's very uncommon. Like, don't take Carmelo Anthony for granted. That's one thing you never said. In seven years of doing the pod, you never said, don't take Carmelo Anthony for granted, but I get to do it.

We got a question from Tomas and Portland who asked a reasonable question. Why isn't he Thomas? I don't know. Maybe it is Thomas. He's not from Belgium. From Portland. There's a Z on the end of his name. Tomas.

Tomas. Tomas. I don't know. Sorry. We're dumb white Americans. But the question from him could have been an outrageous. That's true. That might be true.

That's ridiculous. Because he asks, is there any chance that Jeremy Sohan will develop into a star player who will popularize basketball in Poland? He could have asked, is there any chance that Jeremy Sohan wins five defensive players in his career? That's true. That might be true. That's ridiculous. But I think the question's fair, though, because then he added, or is his defensive-minded playstyle a limitation to his popularity?

I think that's a fair question to ask, though. Like, Sohan's a really good player, but will he popularize basketball in Poland? But I don't know where, I don't know where it is now. How can I know? Do people care about it now? If they don't care about it now, they're not going to care about it because of frigging Jeremy Soehan. Like, what are we doing?

What? Like, I mean, and do they have other guys? Have they had other guys? Forgive me, I just don't. My Polish friends are going to be upset with me, but I just don't know. And Jeremy Sohan is Polish? Gortat.

Gortat they have. Yeah, he is Polish. I didn't know that. Yep. I mean, he's kind of a world citizen, though. He kind of moved around. I mean, he's not usually. Usually the guys that popularize the sport are not guys like Jeremy Soehan,

who I think is going to be a good NBA player, but he's not going to be like a huge star. Let me counter argument here. All right. The counter argument is his personality. he's got a big personality. He's funny. He has cool hair.

He plays for their national team as well. So he'll be the best player on the national team. He's a likable player. And there's a chance over the course of time that he is one of the most versatile defenders in basketball. He's got the cool look. Maybe his offense blossoms even more than it already has with the spurs than his rookie season.

So there's a chance that he becomes, somebody that makes basketball a more popular sport in Poland, but I don't think it's necessarily going to blow up because of him. It's not going to blow up in Poland because of Sohan. But he could definitely increase the popularity. This is the question, Kevin. Do you believe that there are going to be hundreds of elementary school kids in Poland running around with green hair saying, I'm Jeremy Sohan.

I'm going to Google, is basketball popular in Poland? And we're just going to see what pops up. And it says volleyball is one of the country's most popular sports with its wrist history. It says motorcycle stuff. Football's big in Portland. Soccer. Yeah. They call it.

Right. It says Poland used to love basketball. So it says. In the 60s and 70s, our national team played in almost every Olympics and we were competitive. But in 1984, Poland hasn't qualified for the games. There's even a time when NBA games were on in Poland. This is actually a Players Tribune article written by Gortat about how we play basketball in Poland. Well, it's nice.

Our lone listener in Poland, sent us an email. This is, all right, this is from what year? This is 2016, so we're seven years ago now. But, I mean, one of the quotes in here was, the state of basketball in Poland right now is, well, it's not great. Understand in Poland, we don't have four or five guys make it to the NBA every year like France or Spain. I'm the fourth Polish guy ever to make it to the NBA. And given the state of our national team program, there probably won't be any others for a long time.

So, I don't know. Who knows? maybe Jeremy Sohan can be the one that revives Poland's love for basketball. How, I mean, how? I don't know. Again, we're testing the limits of our intelligence here. Hey, guys. I know you guys are very worldly.

What do you think about Polish culture? What the hell do I know? Well, here's a thing, Chris. I've never been a Poland? Here's the thing, Chris, I am 25% Polish. You are? I am, yeah, I am. My grandma on my mom's side was 100% Polish.

That's big time. There's a Polish restaurant near me in Los Angeles that I went to a couple months back with my mom. Very good. What is Polish food? What do they do to it? The restaurant's called Solidarity. But what do they do to it? It's what's uniquely popular.

Polish sausage. This is the one thing I know. I think that's the main one. Polish sausage. I forget at the top of my head what we had. Let me pull up my notes from our dinner. I remember I took down what we had that day. Notes from our dinner?

I put notes in Google Maps. Like when I go to a restaurant, a lot of the time I put notes in to Mark, if I've been to a restaurant and what I liked, what I didn't like. straggenoff that's the word of my head it's like it's beef stewed with wild mushrooms oh stroganoff stroganoff I don't know we pronounce

it's like that I don't know that's where my mom and I said it strangenoff are you saying it strogan off beef stroganoff yeah it's good it's delicious all right

we had that shout out to Poland and the one guy that listens to us there schnitzel we had that very familiar with it oh yeah Lucas a hawks fan

from New York oh that's tough he asked us I mean the last time I was in New York I was riding the subway and they were yelling F. Tray Young after a Yankee game a year after the playoffs and you remember that

and we had to tell my daughter that they were saying I can't remember what did you say I can't remember what it was, that they were singing the song or something. I can't remember what it was. Oh, we need to congratulate Lucas, the Hawks friend from New York, on being cancer-free for two years now. How cool is that?

Graduated a degree in zoology. It's pretty awesome, huh? Pretty awesome. Been listening to our show for a long time. He said he's been going back and forth on how he feels about the idea of Siakum going to the Hawks via trade. In a hypothetical move, the Raptors accept, where do you feel that a core of Trey Murray Seacum ranks

among the teams in the East? Pretty low among the top teams for sure. I don't like that fit. No, not at all. He doesn't shoot threes. Like, they need to... Siacom can shoot threes, just not like a knockdown guy. He shoots four a game at 30%.

Who cares? Nobody's guarding him out there. Take it. I just think everything comes down to Trey. Everything. Who is he going to be under Quinn Snyder with this new system? The other day, you see that Steph Curry tweet, like the clip of him talking to like some girls basketball camp, like moving off ball. He's like, don't just wave your hands.

Do this, do that, do this type of cut, do that. Like all these type of instructions to, like, as a player to do instead of just waving your hands and standing stationary off ball. Trey Young is the player who can learn from that more than anybody else. he is somebody who in college at Oklahoma did move off ball. They used him off of screens. They used him off of handoffs. And he's become this dominant on-ball force who is unwilling to move without the ball.

And I know Hawks fans, anytime I say that, they're like, well, we've never had the personnel for that. No, Trey Young is never allowed it to happen. You have had the personnel, whether it's Bogdanovich, or whether it's Herder, or whether it's Gallinari, or even D'Andre Hunter, who can handle a little bit of,

bit or be using a creative role and handoff actions. They have yet to utilize Trey Young and anything aside from high pick and roll and occasional spot-ups, but he doesn't use movement. Trey Young is somebody who should be watching that Steph Curry clip and saying, hey, what can I be alongside Murray? What can I be alongside all this other personnel we have? And if they were to make a Seacum trade or a trade for somebody else like that, what can I do to maximize that player.

You got Bogdanovich. You just drafted Kobe Buffkin, who's one of the best off-ball cutters in the entire draft. You got Patty Mills. You got Murray. And I have Quinn Snyder, the guy who implemented the system with the jazz. You got Jalen Johnson, who is a dribble handoff guy, who can be a short role guy, who can handle the ball himself.

Okongwu has some perimeter skill as well. I think now is the time. And if it's not now, it's never going to pan out the way you hope so with the Hawks. I don't like the, I don't like to see Ackham fit with the two dynamic guards. I'd want, I want a stretch four and a lob finishing five when I've got those guys. Because I think that, you know, certainly what, when Trey was very devastating, certainly in the playoffs a couple of years ago, he's running those high picket rolls and he forces you to make a choice.

And he can either, you know, drop those shots off or he, he's a really good lob thrower. He is. He can, you know, he could just run pick and roll and certainly had a lot of success doing it with Capella, Collins for a bit. But, you know, I was thinking about this the other day. I don't know if there's anybody that it would have benefited more to be part of that Team USA thing than him. And he was left off. They left him home. Why do you think they did?

I mean, look. Why do you think they did? There's a lot of people that think that Nike has an incredible. incredible say in what takes place with that and that that plays a role. It's hard to look at what he has accomplished as a player and to say that he is unworthy. Yes. The fact he's an Adidas athlete definitely might have something to do with that, probably a big role.

But I do think the playing style does. Yeah, but that's why I'm saying. Nothing would be better for him in terms of development. And then being a part of that team. with awesome players because he's never getting that opportunity. You don't get that like the All-Star game, right? Like this is like actually playing on a team with guys that are better than you. And you just can't do whatever you want to do.

And your usage rate ain't going to be crazy. And I think it would be the best thing for him, honestly, in terms of development as a player and would have a profound effect on his game. Because none of those guys are scared to say anything. And you don't run the show here. you're just part of the team. And I think it's a shame just for his development as a great player because he's a fantastic player.

And I think that would have gone a long way towards helping him. I think there's a lot of players that are like that. It was helpful to Devin Booker, for sure. It's helpful to all manner of players that have gone and been a part of that. Yeah, I don't know. And it's come back. But Booker was a completely different player, though. Booker was always an offball guy.

That's what he was in high school. That's what he was in college at Kentucky. He was also a pig, though, at the beginning of his career. What do you mean? And he's now a guy that moves the ball. He's a real playmaker. I mean, early in his career, what he was playing? I'm saying, just get a bunch of buckets and that's it.

You're not making anybody better. But that's what people missed with Booker. He was somebody. That's why would Tray Young. That's why would Tray Young, Hawks fans think I am a hater of a Trey Young, but at the same time, I see more potential on Trey Young than a lot of Hawks fans do.

That's just the facts here, because I watched him at Oklahoma. I see the ability with him as a spot-up shooter. You know his IQ as a basketball player. So with Trey Young, you know he can do that. With Devin Booker, there was actually a lot of evidence with him doing that as a player at Kentucky,

his rookie season. It wasn't until they really threw him into it. his second third year, where he became this heavy on-ball guy that didn't have to do a lot off the because they stunk. They needed it from. But you knew he had it in him because he had done it for years. So I think with Trey Young, it's a little bit different. He's always been this on-ball guy, and he's only shown the flashes. Like at Oklahoma, he did it a little bit, but not a lot. He's never done it in the NBA. So can it happen? Will it happen? That comes down to Trey Young. Even in that clip of him talking on a podcast with Gilbert Arenas and Josiah Johnson about how badly did you want to be on Team USA.

His answer was, well, I'd love to be on that team and pass even more than I already do and set my teammates up. It's from the perspective of being the on-ball creator for the team rather than being someone sharing the ball. Like you're seeing your guy, Jaron Jackson Jr. for the Grizzlies running actions that drain. on Greenwood run, dribble handoff actions, handoffs, you know, he's attacking off the dribble from the perimeter. Steve Kerr basically implemented the Warriors' offense for Team USA.

Trey Young's answer was running the Hawks offense. So until Tray changes, he's never going to win a championship. He's never going to reach his full potential. And no matter what the Hawks do, they're always going to be left disappointed with the end results. Connor emailed, a lot of shakeup in the sports journalism

world in recent months. How do you guys think sports media and journalism is going to change in the coming years for better or worse, asking as a sports journalism student at Arizona State University? I have no idea. This is my first. I have no clue how things are going to change. It is so tough to predict, but at the same time, I still think if you do good work that is in your own lane, that's unique and true to yourself, stuff that you're passionate about,

there's always somebody that's going to find you out there, whether it's on a local level for a blog site or whether it's at a national level or whether it's something behind the scenes working on video, whatever it might be. It's finding what you love to do, but also what you're good at and what's different from what others are doing.

I think, and again, I haven't put a tremendous amount of thought into this, just doing it off the top of my head. But I have seen things change so dramatic, from the time that I came into sports media, which is like 2000. So that's a long time ago now. And so many of the things that I did

would not necessarily be applicable to a young person now. In terms of changes, and I think this could be beneficial to those that get ahead of the curve. I think that for me and even you, Kevin, we felt like we had to get a job somewhere. And that's the way it was. You had to get a job somewhere,

and that was going to be your foot in the door. You needed to work for an outlet. And there's no question that working for an outlet can help your exposure. There's a lot of good things about working for an outlet. But I also do think that what we're going to find in the years to come is that it becomes less and less, and it already has, essential to necessarily work for a outlet

and or a corporation, and that you have people doing it on their own, that you can then become a sports media member on your own. And I'm seeing it daily, and I see it with like what my kids watch, with people having their own YouTube channels, and their Instagram channels, and their TV channels,

those types, thinking basketball, like people who do it their own way. Jay Kyle, man. He goes from YouTube to now with the ringer. That's right. And I don't think that you have to have. I think that there's always going to be a place for people that go to school and learn it, et cetera.

But I think that now we are going to move into, as we have. It started with blogs, and now it's more, I think, on the video side. But I think that in the coming years, that you're not going to have to have worked at some place. You know, I mean, like last year, I've had all manner of different people come through my studio in Memphis over the years, like, and be guests on the show. yourself included but all kinds of people that have come in town and big big names sometimes historically big names

and I would tell you that last year the two biggest are the most the ones that were my kids favorite were that guy Jesser from YouTube and Cash Nasty from YouTube who both of which came into my studio

because they were flown in by the NBA, by the NBA. The NBA was sending them around to games all over the country. So like Cash Nasty was there for like the Lakers Grizzly gang. And Jesser was there earlier in the playoffs or at the end of the regular season. And those guys were filing videos because they know people like my kids are watching those. And then the NBA's cool. and then they want to see anything about it.

And so I think that you're seeing this outreach where it's like, I don't think, and people can argue whether that's good or bad. There's always going to be a place for people that and people are always going to listen to people that have information, that have sources, that can break news. There's always going to be a place for that. But I'm not the old hater sitting around resenting the way it's going. I just sit there and go, man, if I was young, I don't know if I would have gone. I certainly would not go and work at a radio station now.

And that's how my career started. How about a newspaper? No chance. No chance even at this point. No, absolutely not. I remember one time in my career, I forget the exact, like, title for the job, but I said no to a job offer at the Boston Herald in one time many years ago. It just didn't feel right, like moving away from Celtics blog.

I was writing for like, you know, still, I think I maybe just finished college. I don't know. It was very early in my career, like 2014. And I was looking for something with more consistent pay. And I was like, just doesn't feel like the right path to go down. It just doesn't feel right in my gut. And I didn't take it. And I continued freelancing a bunch of places that did my draft guide.

I think it was pre-draft guide when I applied for that job. I chose right. That's for sure. Yeah, I think there's never going to be replacing. Now, the one thing, you're always going to have people listen to you and pay attention to you. If you can bring something at the table that you have an insight that is different. And when I was very young, I got very good advice from an elder statesman in the media

that's telling me just be there, be at everything. And so whether that was press conferences, games, everything. So being a, quote, real media member with a media pass is always going to have. have incredible value. And then you've got to be able to put your twist on that. But I just don't know I'm seeing now a day and age where if you do good work, that the big trick was would the team recognize you? And the first step was blogs. And now it just may be guys that produce videos, guys that produce content, guys that produce, you know, whether it's written or video or audio, that if you prove yourself as a worthwhile observer,

that you may not necessarily have to have the thing underneath your media pass, as you did in the past. And that opens it up to a whole. And then I think it also... Chris, what about even like these people who do NBA draft scouting on Twitter? For sure. And like they get hired by the Mavericks or whoever the team might be as a person, as a scout,

scouting internationally or regional. That's happened many times. Very exciting. For sure. Grantland had a writer in the past that got hired away from Grantland. Bill Simmons dealt with that, losing a writer to a team. ESPN's lost people to teams.

Look, the internet made the world a small place. And this was something that I went through in my career, where when I was young and the show started popping off, I started getting offers from all over the country, big, big markets to move. And I was already doing pretty well financially and, you know, for what I was doing. And a lot of times I wasn't going to be getting paid a lot more to move to the market. But every program director in another market said like, nobody's ever going to find you in Memphis.

You need to be in Chicago. You need to be in St. Louis. You need to be in New York. You need to be in Atlanta. You need to be somewhere, right? because that's the way it was. And then the internet happened. And it was around that time for me.

And I thought, you know what? If I do something here, people are going to find out about it. And if I do well enough, they're going to find me because it's accessible to everybody. It doesn't matter if I'm in a big market or not. And that played out. You know what I mean? Bill Simmons knew who I was. And I was in, I wasn't in Chicago.

I wasn't in New York. I wasn't in Miami. I wasn't in Dallas. Right? I was in Memphis. But because it broke through, because Dead Spins writing articles about us and Grantlands writing articles about us and this is,

and this viral video does this and this does that. Like, it's like you can do it from anywhere now. And I think it's exciting. you. I think if you're a young, aspiring broadcaster, you know, really, there's so much, there's so much at your disposal.

And I see there's so many incredibly talented people. Every time I scroll through these, it fall down these wormholes on Instagram or TikTok, I'm like, man, these kids are talented as hell. The videos they can put together. And, you know,

if you're good at it, you'll stand out. That's the end of that. I don't think that's ever going to change. 100%. And I think that's kind of a long answer for Connor. Yeah. Still get your base. Don't discount going to school for it because it's good for you.

Yes, because he asked, you know, how is it going to change? It's hard to know how it'll ever change, but that's the thing that always stays the same. Yeah. And that's what you have to bet on is just doing that good work and you know things are online now. So it's about the content and being in college is good that can open doors for you. It can create experiences to learn and to get, you know, those in the field reps, whether

it's a credential. He said he's at Arizona State. Yep. At games, whether it's football, games, basketball, hockey, whatever it is. Get experience talking to players. That matters. All of that matters if you're behind the camera stuff. I think even if your aspirations are to be on camera, it is valuable to learn those other skills as well.

Of course, I do the gig that I do. I have the job that I have and I pursued this. My sophomore year in college, it was that time where you needed to decide what you're working towards something. Like you need to decide a major. And I took four different classes. And whichever one I liked the most is what I was going to say my major was. And I took a class called Introduction to Broadcasting.

And it was the one I liked the most. And they put me behind a microphone. And so, especially if you're at college. Were you a natural right away? Were you good? No. No. Were you better than your peers in that room?

Without question. But they suck. I mean. I know, it's freshman in college. Yeah, I'm just curious. Sophomore. But yeah. Sophomore, yeah.

I, um. Underclass, whatever. Like, I think using everything. the school can be very, very beneficial in using everything at your disposal. Right. So if they got cameras, get in front of them. If they've got microphones, get behind them. And so, no, I mean, it takes a long, long time to become whoever you're going to become.

So, no, I wasn't any good at first. But I liked it. I liked it. You know what I mean? I felt like it was something that I would like to do. And so that's how, that's how, that's how. it ended up happening. But yeah, once you get the opportunity,

if you're on a university and I'm sure that, you know, with as much as these kids have to pay to go to school now, you probably got a bunch of nice stuff there. Take advantage of all of it while you're there and use all of it. That's for sure. All right. Last one of the week, Mark asks, oh boy, this is about to get heavy, Kev.

Parenting is a big sub-theme on the mismatch for many years. Kevin's always talking glowingly about his relationship with his father, and Chris is never shy about discussing the challenges he's encountered with parenting his own kids. What would be the best advice for being the best parent possible based on your own experience, either as a father or son, asking as a parent of a two-year-old who wants to build as close a relationship as possible with my son? You go first. You have the experience both as the father and the son of a great father. You know, I think that a lot of, I was talking to my friend about this the other day, that I think a lot of what happens with your relationship with your own father and things that you wish were the same or you wish were different, dictate whatever you become as a dad.

And I say that because I got into this conversation. Somebody was asking me about, you know, I went to Chicago for that National Sports Collector's Convention. And my son went with me. And, you know, sometimes you get into these deep dots and you're like, I do. I've collected everything and I've never thrown anything away and I've kept it all from the time I was a very young kid. And it's one of those things where it's like, hey, did I do that because of some reason?

and my grandfather's cousin played in the major leagues and one rookie of the year in 1954, a guy had a tremendous unibrow. His name was Wally Moot. And so my dad used to, my grandpa used to take my dad up to games all the time as a child from West Tennessee to St. Louis. And so Wally played for the Cardinals and for the Dodgers. My dad got all these autographs, Sandy Kofax, Don Drysdale, Duke Snyder, when he was playing for the Dodgers, all these different Cardinals.

usual on and on and on right and had these stories about them all the time and so of course when i got a page where i was collecting a bunch of stuff i was like hey does granny still have all that stuff and he's like oh no she gave it all the way i was like what he's talking about it's like she gave it all away she like there was a there was a kid in the town a handicapped kid in the town and when i had gone off to college or whatever she just gave it all away and i was like what no like what do you mean you don't have any of that stuff left like none of the stuff that you and so I think maybe I just went like the complete opposite where I wanted all that stuff and I say that to say that also you know I've talked about how my father was he was corporate America he was gone before

I woke up in the morning and when he got home in the afternoon he was so stressed out and just had a job for 30 years of a corporation and you know if I wanted to go like throw baseball, this is not a sob story, but throw baseball or shoot a basketball or throw football or whatever. That, you know, he wasn't, he wasn't going to do that. Like, he was, he was gassed out from the day.

He just wanted to get Diet Coke and flip on Tom Brokaw, nightly news. And then my dad took me to an insane amount of games. We had season tickets to the St. Louis Blues, tons of tickets to the Cardinals, football, concerts, everything. And that's, like, where a relationship was,

built and my fondest memories are us together doing all of those things. And so all I will tell you is two things. Number one, with my kids, and you could ask them, very, very rarely if they ever ask me to go shoot a hoop or throw a ball or do whatever, I always say yes. And again, it's a response to, I wish it would have been me. So, right, fix everything that you wish you had. Don't be the same way as everything you had. That's number one. Number two, I think there is absolutely no replacement for time. That's what they want. You cannot buy your way out of it.

You can buy them everything. I've tried. I've tried. You know what I've tried. They want your time. That's what they want. They want you to be with them and spend time with them. And you only, I say this is a dad of now a 13.

and a 10. Sometimes I look up at the pictures on the walls and I'm like, man, where did, you know, I always thought it wasn't going to go fast. But then you look, sometimes when I look at those pictures, I was like, man, I don't even remember that, you know? And I think, because you never get that back. And sometimes you can get caught up in the rat race. So as much time as you possibly can. And then the last thing I'll tell you is sports related. I went out with a girl when I was in my young 20s. And I said that they were, I was already involved in sports radio. I had a show.

And we're on this date. And she was like, so with as much as you care about sports and as much as you talk about sports, what if you like have a kid one day and he doesn't like sports? And I was like, what are you talking about? What are you talking about? And she's like, well, what if, what if he doesn't like sports? What if he likes band? What if he likes drama?

What if he likes? And I'm like, it's, it's not even possible. what? And she's like, boy, the kid's going to like whatever he's going to like. I was like, no, he's not. He's going to like what I like. And so she was like, well, that's ignorant. Okay.

So that didn't, that date didn't go that great. So I got home and I called my dad. I was like, dad, do you believe that you can raise a sports fan? And he said, I did. And I was like, thanks, dad. So the point is the time thing, that these are the moments. You can't make sports, whatever it is, right? They are going to associate these things with spending time with you.

And so sports or whatever you care about deeply is the thing that takes you away from them, is the reason you can't spend time with them. They will grow to resent that thing. It's a great tip I can give you. but if it is something that you do together, so my father played sports with me, you know, he's on the ground tackling me and playing football with me and throwing a ball with me

and taking me to games and watching games on Sunday together. It wasn't a thing that kept him from spending time with me. In fact, it was a way he spent time with me. And I found that to be absolutely true with my children as well, that they love sports now because, It is something that we share together. And I think that that ties in directly to every story you have ever told me about you and your father. For sure.

I mean, I think you nailed it, Chris. It's time. It's creating time with your kid. And that's the one thing I feel like I've had with my parents, with my mom still today. And, you know, like she turned 67 later this year and we still spend a lot of time together. It's the one thing I had for my whole life with my dad is time, the investment in time and shared experiences, whether it's a Sunday drive,

your routine Sunday drive to the store, doing that together, whether it's dinner together, sitting at the dinner table, or whether it's sports, as you said. And I think with my dad, that was the key thing, like watching,

you know, it's kind of strange for me. Like, since he's died in 2020, I'm less of an NFL fan now than ever before because my whole life I watched football every Sunday with him. It's like I've rarely

ever watched football with friends. They knew not even to ask because I knew I'd watch with my dad. We'd watch every Celtics game together growing up until I started working at sports media and started going to games. And then it was like I come home and we talk about it. There's that shared experience,

the time spent together afterwards. So I think, you know, that the time you put in is the main thing And like Mark, you know, like we don't know your job, your career or any details like that. All those variables factor in. If you get to travel for your job, whatever it might be. But I think one of the key things you said in there, Kristen, this is something I think about a lot. Like, you know, as amazing as my parents have been my whole life, like the things that I would do differently than them, if I'm ever fortunate enough to have a kid.

And I think I'll be a great dad because, you know, I had a great dad to learn from, a great mom to learn from. But I also know some of their shortcomings as parents and what to get better at. Like with you, you've had a very good father throughout your life. And you also know the things that you wish you had that you didn't. Yeah. So it's like, well, how can I do that better with my own kids? I think that's the key thing. It's like looking within, thinking about what you didn't have that you wish you had as a kid,

or through experiences discussed with friends, like, oh, yeah, that's a good idea. Yeah, you have the opportunity. Yes. You have a grand opportunity to fix the things that you didn't. that you wish were different, but also implement the things that you loved and the reason that, you know,

you had a good relationship with them. I think we were both very, very, you know, you and I, and I think that we've talked about that many times over the last seven years, very, very lucky to have incredibly loving,

caring parents that did do everything they could for us to make us who we are and still to this day, right? Like, I mean, we were recording this podcast tonight and my mom was picking my son up from football you know like she's still helping me out to this day and so

I think we had a lot to draw from that's really really good but that is her still making the investment in you and in your and of your kids for sure like it's your son getting picked up from football like she's making the investment to make time with him to build that relationship

with him Like assuming the same thing with your kid that she did with her kid, right? That's right. I think that's the key thing. Like you got to create that time no matter how busy you are. Like every parent I know says something to that effect. So having a two-year-old, you get a little time to. You got a lot of time, man.

A lot of time to build that repertoire as a dad. That's right. But yeah, it's pretty cool. We are fortunate to, you know. To have that. We just pretty much gave, like, this guy is going to be like the greatest dad ever. So hopefully he remembers us when he's given his speech for dad of the year. Nobody's perfect.

You're going to make mistakes. Of course. Spend a lot of time with that kid and always tell him you love him. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Kevin is always a pleasure. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse, as always. And I'll talk to you next week.