The Mismatch - Al Horford Balling Out, Stop With the Whining, and Embiid Makes All the Difference

Episode Date: May 10, 2022

Verno and KOC recap Monday night’s slate of playoff action, beginning with the Celtics' resilient win to tie their series against the Bucks (01:56). They also break down the Bucks' struggles and what Giannis needs to do differently. The Grizzlies drop Game 4 and are in a 3-1 hole in the series against the Warriors, and the guys break down what happened with the Griz (21:53). They last go though Tuesday night’s games between the Heat-76ers and Mavs-Suns. With Joel Embiid back, the Heat will have a tough battle to win the series (44:27). The Mavs won two in a row and tied up their series with the Suns, and the guys give major credit to Jason Kidd for the adjustments he's made since dropping the first two games (58:08). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's popping, everybody? This is Logan Murdoch, and I'm here with my co-host for the Real Ones podcast on the Ringer NBA show, The Incomparable, the realist, the man who invented the pregame Red Bull Snowcone. Rajabell. Thank you, Logan. You're far too kind, sir. Did you know that the Ringer NBA show feed now has six podcasts a week? Six. Every Sunday, Big Was has a different guest from the NBA world on weekends with Waz. And you can find me and Raja every Monday and Thursday on Real Ones where we cover all the most interesting NBA storylines. On Tuesdays, Jay Kyle Mann and Jonathan Charks discuss up-and-coming talent in college basketball and the NBA.

And on Wednesdays, you can hear Justin Vary or Rob Mahoney and Big Was discuss any and everything going on in the world of hoops. Man, and on Friday, Chris Ryan and Syrac Sohe asked the big questions on the answer. So head over to the Ringer NBA show's Spotify page and take a listen. There's so much to dive into. And while you're there, just go ahead and give us a follow too. Welcome to the mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon.

And join me as he does every Tuesday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.K. Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Cannibus, Kevin O'Clyn, Kevin O'Chyl. Kevin O'Climber, Kevin O'Cliber. Kevin O'Kle, Berna. Rough night for you, huh, Chris? Yeah, it was if you can hold Golden State to 101, you have to win the game. End of story. End of story.

especially when you were doing it without your best player. Great night for you because your Celtics came back storming in the fourth quarter after it looked pretty bleak in the third quarter. So let's start with that one. Janice, I thought was pulling off a NBA finals, just taking over the game. No one can guard me. can stay in front of me.

Like, we were on our way to maybe an epic performance and kind of got control of that game in the third quarter. And there was a moment in the third quarter where I tweeted out, I could watch these teams play 20 times in a row. This is such a great series and it's physical and it feels like every play matters. The home crowds are great. and for the Celtics to rally as they did in that fourth quarter and Al Horford to turn back the clock

and have his greatest playoff performance ever was, I got to be honest with you watching that absolutely astonishing. What were you thinking as that game was played out? I mean, at one point in the middle of the third quarter, I thought the bucks were about to blow the game open. Yeah. That's just the way it felt. It just seemed like there was some momentum pushing towards that.

And Boston showed a lot of resilience in that game, man. And I think from the Milwaukee side of things, they did a lot of right things. The empty side pick and roll was working a lot. They didn't go back to it a lot. They weren't hunting Peyton Pritchard in the fourth quarter all too often. Meanwhile, for Boston, they're just exploiting the Brooke Lopez drop coverage over and over again with pick and pops by Al Horford hitting trees, Tatum playmaking.

Horford attacking those closeouts, making plays off the bounce. I mean, you got to give credit to Boston for the resilience, bouncing back. And Al Horford, you say he turned back the clock. I've never seen Al Horford be that aggressive for the entire game. That was a new side of Horford after Yannis dunked on him,

gave him the mean mug. Or forford woke up. He woke up. He got mad. We've never seen this side of. Al Horp for Chris? When I said, turn back the clock, I meant Florida days.

Yeah. Yeah. It is crazy. The guy wasn't even playing basketball at Oklahoma City. I know. And you go back and you look at that acquisition

and it turns out sometimes we can look back at things and that just becomes an essential acquisition that ended up being so much more significant than it seemed at the time. Certainly, getting off the Kemble Walker contract and acquiring Al Horford was, it was a move that was praised on the surface anyway, right, that they needed some veteran leadership. They had missed that. He had a relationship

with those guys. Boston really liked this guy. But, you know, post Boston, it just, he did not look like himself after he left Boston the first time. And then, of course, as we mentioned, he wasn't even playing. And then you get to that fourth quarter last night. And this is the second time we have spoken about a team that shot over 80% in a fourth quarter in the playoffs. We talked about it when Phoenix did it last night, just for point of reference, Tatum, five of six. Horford, six of six. Marcus Smart, four of five, Derek White, one of one, Peyton Pritchard, O for one.

It added up for 16 of 19 from the field, 84%, 4 for 5 from 3, 80% from 3. I mean, that is ridiculous, ridiculous in a monster game on the road in the playoffs. And as I said, we talked about it with Phoenix doing it. We've now seen two teams shoot over 80% in monster games. Crazy. It's nutty. It's nutty. And if you're Milwaukee now, you're tied to two in the series.

Mention Al Horford attacking that, you know, drop coverage by the box. That was really like really the basis of where the Celtics got a lot of those points you're talking. about Horford, well, the Celtics score 41 points on 28 screens set by Horford last night that led to a shot, a file or a turnover. That's an unbelievable 1.4 points per Horford screen. I wonder if in game five, how do the Bucks adjust here? Because what they've been doing has been more effective on Tatum, at least the first six quarters in Milwaukee. Tatum had a great fourth quarter. But if the bucks, if they play higher in the pick and roll with Brooke Lopez, there's risk, you know, guys are driving past.

And if they switch with Lopez, that heightens that risk. If they take Lopez off the floor and play with more versatility, like with more Janus, Bobby Porter's front cords, which are a plus 20 and net rating over 50 minutes in the series. If they do more of that, you know, maybe you have more versatility. You can do more switching. I wonder if that's what we see. But if you take Lopez off the floor, he had, you know, some great offers. offensive moments with his size near the rim. He did, but I mean, we've seen this.

We've seen this, though. I mean, this is the argument we get into about Gobert every year. Yeah. And by the way, you know, they almost, you know, last year when they were playing Atlanta, you know, it was exposed. And it became an issue at some point. And you have seen teams be able to give them problems in the past with this. And the fact that Budenhalser stuck with that last night, it was just crazy to me. It really felt very reminiscent of what we've seen from Dallas, what we've seen from the Clippers,

those teams that played against Utah the last couple of years. And the fact that when it got down to the end, they would space out the floor, they go five wide and it just tortures you. If you're going to have a center that is not going to come 30 feet away from the basket, now you've got real problems on your hand. And if Horford's going to be knocking down threes, you got real problem on your hands. And so I do think, you know, it costs them greatly. And we've seen it in the past.

Again, these can be very effective for sure on defense. But when you get to the playoffs, the better teams are able to go small and expose it. And we've seen it happen. And the thing that is more frustrating about Milwaukee to me than Utah is as, you mentioned, they are equipped to deal with it. Utah had no great answer. You know what I'm saying? It's one of the things that at the very beginning of the season, I criticize.

What are you going to do when you have to be able to go small? When your defense as you want to play it cannot be effective. And the fact that they have the pieces to be able to, but stuck with that and then gave up an 80% from the field. quarter in a game that, you know, you were in control of and could have, for all intents of purposes, probably ended the series because your lead is just so commanding and you put yourself in a position where you'd have to lose three straight and you figure Janus is going to just dominate completely for one of those games. I don't know, man. I don't know. That's,

to me, with Utah, I was always at least able to listen to what do you want them to do, you know, they don't have some kind of great guy to put at that other position if you're going to take Gobert out of the game. But Milwaukee does. Milwaukee does. Yeah, I mean, to be fair, though, I think with the Bucks, not having Chris Middleton, it hurts you offensively, as we've talked about all series, but also defensively not having his size of the wing position.

So, like, you start the series, you know, big with Janus, Portis, and Lopez, and then you trim down to two bigs with Janus and Lopez or Janus and Portis. I don't think Janus at the five is as much of a solution to go to even more frequently because, like, you don't have Chris Middleton. You know, you lost PJ Tucker. You know, you're feeling that when it comes to wanting to go with Janus at the five. So for the bucks here, you're probably. continuing more with two bigs. Maybe you do

more Janus Portis to have more versatility rather than the drop with Lopez. But I wonder how much of this has to do with balance on offense. You have Janus taking 36, 32 shots, and last night's game. His career high is 36.

I'd like to see Janus hit 40. And I know that might sound outrageous, but why is it outrageous to ask that of a guy who's going to go down as a top? 10, 15, maybe even higher top five player in the history of basketball. Is that really outrageous to ask for? I don't think it is.

I'd rather have Janice taking 40 shots in the game and a must-win game without Chris Middleton than Drew Holiday taking 20 because with Drew Holiday, we're seeing the limitations of his shot creation. He like numbers wise, excellent efficiency in isolations and pick and rolls for, you know, multiple years running now. but it's a hell of a lot different when you're going against Marcus Smart, Jalen Brown, Jason Tatum, Derek White,

than it is, you know, in the matchups you're getting over the course of the regular season. We're seeing that the amount of depth the Celtics defense has where they can lose smart while they plug in Whitemore. They can lose Robert Williams. They get Daniel Tyson to get some minutes off the bench and have plenty of other great defensive pieces. Boston's depth is just crazy on defense,

and that's making things hard on holiday. But I want to see, I want to see Janus hit 40, at least one time the rest of the series. Well, I mean, I think what I'd like to see is for them to play guys that it would be natural to throw it to and might be able to get you. I mean, I don't understand the George Hill thing at all. I don't get it. It's for what? You want to see more Jemont Carter then?

You could have, I mean, they didn't bring in Grayson Allen until whatever. And Grayson Allen's getting, you know, attacked on defense. I understand. But, I mean, you got eight minutes of nothing out of George Hill in the fourth quarter. Like nothing. Literally nothing. Well, this speaks to the Middleton absence, though, Chris. Of course it does.

You have booted holes are reaching for, you know, answers here. He's trying to figure out where do we find that help on the wing? Right. And whether it's, well, whether it's Conitin, whether it's Grayson Allen, I got to have another guy that can hit a shot that at least when Janus is getting, you know, double and triple teams, somebody I can throw it out to that can get me a bucket. Now, of course, Holiday in that massive fourth quarter, he's 0 for five in the quarter. I mean, clearly, Janus and Holiday.

Smart bottle them up. Yeah, Janus and Holiday both have to be good. End of story. Or Holiday picks his spots more, and they feed Janus even more. I'm telling you, 40 shots. That should be the target for Yonis. What did he end up last night with?

32 and he had 30 in game 3, 27 in game 2, 25 in game 1. So it went up every game. I'm telling you, 40 shots. That should be the target for Giannis. Well, how many fritos did he have? He had 11 in last Sites games, 12 in game 3, 9 in game 2, 11 in game 1. I mean, because obviously those count as the ball was going to him. It is a possession that he used.

And so you are, I mean, you're not far off. No, not far off at all. You're getting that. You're about getting that number, Kevin. But like in the series, it's Holiday from an age of the four games. Holiday is 8 of 20, 7 of 20, 11 of 30, 5 of 22. And he's going against a tough defender no matter who it is. And I'm just saying, like, have Holiday, take less shots and force more towards Janus.

He is obviously by far your best player. He's the best player in the world. Yonis is capable of taking 40 shots. he's going to have to have the rest of the series, some historic nights for Milwaukee to win the series. So give him that chance. Truth be told, it's obviously an offensive criticism.

That's not their problem. I mean, they gave up 40-something points in the fourth quarter. Yeah, I guess, I guess, I guess the, it's not necessarily their issue. It's where do you find the answers? I think the answers might be easier to find on offense than on defense. All the defense of answers are easy to be.

I don't know, man. There's not a lot. Like, you're asking for more Grayson Allen. I don't know if you want more grace and Allen. No, no, no, no, no. I'm saying someone else on offense. Again, the problem is not offense. The reason they lost that game last night is because they got three stops in the fourth quarter.

Three. Three. You know, I don't care what offense you're playing. If you get three stops in the fourth quarter, 28 is not a bad number. That's not a bad number for a quarter. Totally reasonable. And in fact, pretty good if you get 28 points in the quarter. The problem is 43.

You give up 43. That is obscene. That's obscene. It is, I mean, it's on pace to, it's up paste to give up what? Quick math. 872 points. That's what you would give up over the course of a game if you gave up 43 point quarters. You're pretty good at math, Chris. You're pretty good at math. A lot of years of gambling, Kev, you got to be. How do you do that in your head? Did you double 43 to 86? Yeah.

And then I doubled it again. You doubled it again? Okay. So you didn't do times four in your head. You just double, doubled. Okay. I just double it up. But yeah, I kind of feel like this thing, I, you know, we started off with this thinking, hey, this feels like a seven gamer. So now we got through last night. And I think that if Milwaukee would have won that, I certainly would have been, I would not have come on here and said, hey, I still think it's going seven games.

But the fact that Boston did it, I think we're going to, I think we're going to get this to play out the way we want it to, which is getting that game seven in Boston. I think I would be, at this point, I think I'd be a little surprised if anybody won the next two games, being that they are going to be on each other's home court. Who would you think is more likely to win the next?

two games though. I think that it will probably well okay so I'd have to say more likely I would have to say again I wouldn't put anything out but I'd say Boston would be more likely simply because I think they'll get the next year. Remember the play where Marcus Smart

and Janice got tangled up and Marcus Smart to extend it pan out trying to help Yonis up from the floor. And Yonah's kind of like pushed him away, kicked them away a little bit. It reminded me of me asking you for months or the Celtics NBA finals contenders and you never took my hand, Chris. Well, and I've got to stick. He never joined me.

Hey, I've got to stick with this. I told you that I would be surprised. The reason I wouldn't get you to the NBA finals was because I didn't think they would beat the bucks or the heat. Now, clearly, that changed dramatically with the Middleton loss. Mm-hmm. Right? That opened the door.

All right. Would you admit if they had Chris Middleton, they would not beat the bucks? I don't know. Oh, come on. The Silicon Girl 7. What are you talking about? These games are, I mean, this is as nip-tuck as it gets without him. They're missing their second best player.

What happened to how much you thought about Middleton? Would I pick the bucks in the series? Yeah, I would have picked the bucks in the series to win in seven, but I still think it would be a great, close series with Chris Middleton. You think it goes seven games with or without Chris Middleton? Yeah, I think I'd probably pick it to go seven. And then you would pick the bucks if they had Middleton? Yeah, I would have picked the bucks if they had Middleton, yeah.

Yeah, because I do think that that was... But they don't have Middleton. They don't have Middleton. They don't have Middleton. And now, like, you have a... the Boston side. Like you have Derek White now hitting shots. You have all these things working in your favor.

Derek White filing him shots. And he held, you know, his opponent to 0 for 12 shooting in the game last night. So Celtics have a lot of, you know, positive things happening for them, especially if they can get Robert Williams back. But Boston's missed guys in the series too.

They had Williams out. Smart missed a game. It's, it's been a weird series. The playoffs are heating up and you can make every game feel like Game 7 on Fandul's sports book and official partner of the game. NBA. Throughout the playoffs, all customers can place a no sweat. Same game parlay every single

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See full terms at sportsbook. com. Gambling problem. The best website to go is fandul. If you're in Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Illinois, or Virginia, call 1-800-N-800-N-N-Extap. In Connecticut, call 1-88-8-8-8-7-77-7-77. In Indiana, I call 1-8-7-0.

In Louisiana, I call 1-877-8. In New York, call 1-8-7-8-N-N. In Tennessee, call, redline, 1-800-8-9-9-7-89. In Wyoming, call 1-800-2-4-70. And West Virginia, visit 1800-gambler.net. The second game last night was the Warriors and the Grizzlies, and this game was a colossal mess. I mean, I can't remember watching two teams simultaneously not being able to hit a shot

and getting pretty good looks all along the way. And as I'm watching this and the Grizzlies are doing it without John Morant. I tweeted out, like, the longer you keep this thing in the mud, the longer you keep this game a mess, the more you have the opportunity. And I do think that they're,

just psychologically, you're not going to have the same maybe laser-like focus. I'm not trying to take away from the Grizzlies, but I do think that if you're the warriors, that you're not going to have the same laser-like focus. focus when you look across and you don't see John Morant there that you think we're going to be able to turn this up when we need to

and obviously teams got caught doing that over and over and over and over this year and the Warriors almost got caught last night if you believe that's what they were doing. That's certainly what Charles Barkley believed to be true when they were talking at halftime that like they're just being really loose with the basketball and they're just kind of taking some bad

shots and then as the game plays out, I believe the Grizzlies led for 46 or 47 of the 48 minutes last night. But Steph Curry knocks down eight free throws down the stretch when it matters most. They made some big plays and the Grizzlies could just not get a buck when they absolutely had to. And there's, of course, a tremendous amount of ire towards Dylan Brooks. You said you've never been more angry

at a player on Twitter last night. Yeah. Yeah. I did say that because, look, this is one of those that's very strange. He is essential to what they do. He is

39 minutes of competent wing defense. He is drawing a very difficult assignment, chasing around Steph Curry all the time. He did have, I believe it was eight assists last night, but his non-willingness to understand that it's not his night made me, I can't remember the last time I was that mad about the way a player played. You needed him to be more like Tony Allen and he was not.

He was the opposite end of the spectrum. He did his best Dion Waiters instead. I was actually texting with Tony last night about it. And he said, in true Tony Allen Ford, we started joking about it. And he said, that's when he used to always say, that's when they start saying to you get back to the huddle and they say, swing swing right because that means you got the pass that means you throw it to somebody else they weren't they weren't after the game though after the game like jod defended him on

twitter and other players and posting i know that's the way they do it's the way they do it's the way they do that's why they are you're gonna protect your guy i get it well and the other but are are we really sure in the huddle that's what it is like are we 100% certain that's what it is in the huddle swing swing i think there's two things taylor jenkins gave him gives him too much rope Yeah, how is the leash so long there? I'm so baffled by the fact that Dylan Brooks played 39 minutes in that game last night with the amount of other options the Grizzlies have on their bench.

I know D. Anthony Mellon has not been great in the postseason. He only plays nine minutes. Zaire Williams, who does know his role and understands his role, plays only 18 minutes. Conchard gets a DMP. If you wanted to go bigger, you could go with Dillman. He gets a DMP. I'm just, I'm confused.

It's because coach is almost always. coaches almost always, almost always are making decisions based upon defense. When this is what we talked about so many times with rookies, right? Rookies rarely get pulled for taking insane shots, but they always get pulled for missing defensive assignments. It's the one thing that coaches go crazy over. And the other thing is he, and this is the issue, he's the elder statesman. he's the guy that's been with the franchise the longest right he's a guy that the others do look to

and so this creates quite the conundrum because well that says a lot right who is well i mean they had the second best record in the NBA he didn't say that much they right out with us the problem is who is going to say something to him that's the issue you know and that's where Taylor Jenkins it's unacceptable it's unacceptable yeah some of those shots were outrageous and then he turned the ball over like crazy they only they only knocked him for three turnovers I believe two or three in the fourth quarter they didn't even they didn't even counted as a turnover when he chucked the ball out of bounds I mean and it just they were all at just absolutely critical moments over and over again.

again. If he wasn't turning the ball over, he was throwing a ball 90 miles an hour off the back for it. It was crazy. And the other thing is this, Kev, the reason, I want to just explain to people, the reason why beyond that game, I've seen games like that where guys just don't have it going and they refuse to accept they don't have it going, right? And their level of aggression, which many times is celebrated ends up becoming their absolute worst trait. The reason that it was even worse is because he clanked three shots

at the beginning of game two and it led to the monstrous aggression and losing his mind that ended up in the Gary Payton play. That's three minutes, three minutes into game two. So he was not able to play in game two. He was not able to play. So this is a guy that is one of your better players.

There's no question. He is one of your better players. And he's taking himself out of two games already. And then the two that he has played were one bucket games where he's like one for a thousand. It's the, you know what I mean? It adds up. So when I say that's why I was the most furious I've been at a player, that's why. It's all, you've got to take it all into context.

Horrendous in game one and they lost it by one point and shot infinitely too much. And then got himself kicked out of two games, which were close game. And then in another game where he's four for a thousand, they lose the game by one bucket. I mean, they're right there. And I thought it was, I thought it was awful, just awful. So, like, we're talking about Brooks and some of the terrible shots and decisions that he made on the court. And you mentioned Taylor Jenkins trusting his guy, leaving him out there, all that. How about the fact that at no point did the Grizzlies attack Jordan Poole on defense?

They brought him into a screen only three times, only. three times throughout the game. Pool, considering the way Golden State has switched a lot of screens, no effort to attack Jordan Pool, who has not had the best series defensively or the best playoffs defensively, I'm

just a little confused by that aspect of things too. I know not having John Helves, I know having Desmond Bain be limited. That doesn't help. That's the major reason. I think the major reason that they weren't trying, because typically what you're trying to do is you're trying to get that switch because you have somebody that's going to go

and be able to create their own shot and just beat him. Right. So instead you'd attack, you know, right, Tyos Jones on Andrew Wiggins? I just don't understand. No, no, no, no, no. Like, it's not a, it's not a choice thing that you're making all the time, right? Like, I don't think that they had the offensive capabilities. This is what I would say, you know. Like, John Morant would score. They did it only three times, though, Chris. Only. three times that they bring him into a screen and there were other times they're getting switched off. I understand, but I'm saying, John Morant would score 98 times out of 100 on Jordan Pool.

I don't think that that is true of anybody else on the roster. Maybe you do. Yeah, but they didn't even do much in Game 3 for that matter either. It's multiple games in a row now. They're not targeting the weakest link. They brought Pool into a screen nine times in game three. That's it. Right.

Yeah, I don't think that that's the way their offense. I think that they go to that when they have Morant, the attack mode, try to find the guy and get the matchup that you want. But in this particular case, they do it as a collective. And the truth is this. And this is of the major reason Dylan Brooks was out there for 39 minutes. They gave up 101 points against the Warriors. You have to win that game.

End of story. You got to win that game. Their defense was, their defense kept them in that thing. Their defense is the reason that they had a chance to win that. I mean, the Warriors shooting 24% of three from three. Well, I mean, you do have a part in that. Yeah.

I mean, that's not just some part. That's not, well, I mean, what about when they shot 65% in game three? You know what I mean? Like, it comes and it goes. Sometimes, you know, and they have proven to be an outstanding defensive team. in the games that they have played without Moran. They're great. They were great.

It was a tough night for you to find out Otto Porter could shoot. Jeez. He was ridiculous. Tough night, huh? He was just absolutely ridiculous. Oh, boy. He's a sharpshooter, Chris.

So it seems. You know, and especially when Clay Thompson was abominable. Yeah, he was terrible. Six of 20, of seven from three and not making up for it on defense. Yeah.

He's been bad. Clay's been really struggling on defense. He doesn't have the same quickness he had before. And then offensively, he seems to be pressing out there, doesn't he? Like he's forcing mid-range shots off the dribble early in the clock.

He had those post-ups in game four last night. There's some strange shooting of decisions from Clay. I think that's what, I mean, I think if you're the Grizzlies, you do sit back and you go, yo, if Otto Porter and Andrew Wiggins are going to beat me, then those two beat me.

That's fine. That's fine. But they're not getting smoked by Curry. He only had, what, 23. What he ended with 31, something like that? I mean, he hit 8. 32, ended with 32 points. Yeah, yeah.

But, I mean, there's eight free throws, you know, at the very end of the game. Those are just. 32 points on 25 shots. Yeah, which is great. right that you'd sign up for that every single game and then you've done an amazing job on you know you can only take so much away and if you do a great job draymond hasn't hurt them they've done a great job but as we've seen throughout this deal the other guys have to be able to step up and do something and they have gotten it they got it out of porter they got it out of wiggins um they really haven't gotten it that much out of the other guys The pool, obviously, is fantastic, and it's had some big games in this deal.

But by and large, it has not been. And it did, it was immense for them to play Stephen Adams last night. Did they find something with that? Yeah. Yeah, they, well, I mean, my God. Listen to the, it is one of the things where you start to realize, like, bro, these people like really, there's a lot of analysts out there that have just never watched the Grizzlies. It's like, oh, they might have found something with Adams and Jackson.

It's like, holy. Well, they've done it all year. Like, that's who they are. What are we talking about? So, it might have found them. They won 56K. But in this, in this series, it does seem like that's something they should continue with. No question.

It did not. And that's the thing. Like, you know, the Warriors did not expose that. You know what I mean? They didn't make the Grizzlies pay for playing Stephen Adams. And part of that's because, you know, Draymond's not going to be a guy that's just standing out there knocking down shots. It's the difference between the Horford thing, right?

Where it's like, if you don't get all the way out there, I'll shoot this shit. I don't care. You know, Draymond's not like that. He doesn't play like that. And the offensive rebounding was light years difference. with Adams out on the court. You know, they had, they had been out rebounded

virtually the entire series. And they had murdered the Grizzlies of points in the paint in the last game, and that all dried up. But obviously, the Grizzlies are being incredibly coy about Morant.

I, I, coy, but also very whiny. What about the Morant thing? Yeah, it's ridiculous. What do you mean? It's ridiculous. Acting like that was a dirty play.

Reach for the, the ball. Blimbs fly around. Did anybody call it dirty? I don't know. Did they call it dirty? No. I mean, Josh tweeted about the code. Right. He deleted that too. He did. Rightfully so. Yeah. Well, no, I think that that was a response to the Steve Kerr, righteous indignation.

Yeah. Well, we know Kerr loves doing that. That's what that was about. That wasn't, I think that is just a reaction to, you know, I think they did not know how to handle the Kerr coming out on national TV. When you've got a great culture, everybody loves you, the team that drafts well, the fun, joyous team. And then a guy goes on national TV and says, that's not hard play and that's dirty. They didn't know how to handle it. I think from the coach, I think the coach on down, nobody knew how to handle it.

What you do at that moment, you go right back at his neck. And you say, hold on now. We didn't say that when Draymond Green punched, damn near punched Brandon Clark at the face and yank him down. I mean, he hammer fisted him in game one. We weren't here crying about dirty. And there's been a bunch of plays. Like, it's an unfortunate play. It's no question reckless.

Feel terrible about it. But, you know, to be framed as dirty, I think they did not know how to handle that at all. I think it's all ridiculous. I think all the crying about these limbs flying and all these games is ridiculous. Have you ever played sports? And it's taken the fun out of it. I've been elbowed in the face playing pickup basketball with my friends. Accidentally, I've swung my arms and hit others.

It happens. That happens in sports. When you're pulling all these slow-mo replays and act like everybody has the worst intentions with the way their hands and arms and legs are moving, it's absolutely ridiculous. the way people are reacting to it. That was the issue. I think people are just going to settle down. Yeah, that was the issue because I hated any of it being framed as a player. I don't think any players are out there intentionally trying to injure each other.

I just don't. I just think people operate assuming that others have the worst intentions at all times with the things they say and the things they do. And you and I are both generally want to see the best in people. Yeah, and more often than not, I think people are just doing what they think is best in the moment, you know, like even the Dylan Brooks play. Was it a reckless play? Yes. Was it a stupid play? Yes. Should he have done it? No, he shouldn't have done it. He should have pulled up. But can I understand the effort and the intensity and going for a block shot on transition? Why would I not? because some of the greatest plays in the history of basketball are happened in that same moment.

Tachon Prince with those chased down blogs. LeBron James and the NBA finals. Like that's like players are going to go for that moment. Yannis with his chase downs. Why would you not try to win the game? but it just happens mistakes happen injuries happen it's a part of playing sports and when you're competing at the highest level sometimes in the moment you do something that you know has a risk attached to it but i don't think there's anything nefarious i don't think there's anything evil about guys going for the ball or trying to block a shot or dive for a loose ball or trying to box out whatever it might be like even with the marker smart box out with yonis last night you saw bucks fans say, what a weird looking box out of her Marcus Smart.

You see Celtics fans saying, Yana's brought his elbow down on Marcus Smart's head. It's like, no, they're just playing basketball. Well, and then you get... Those weren't conscious decisions. They're just playing basketball. And then you get fans and you get emotions and you get the defensive nature all involved with it.

And that's why one of the things I was talking about yesterday was, let's just say, let's just say that that is... when John Moran got hurt. He says it is. He says that's when he got hurt. Taylor Jenkins says, you know, that's when he got hurt. Like right after that, it wasn't another play. Like, right after that, that's when he started.

Even though I just have to, I have to interject it. Even though there's video of him coming up, Gimpy, after closing out in a prior quarter. Okay. Can I address this? Can I address this? Yeah. Okay.

If you notice, go back and watch that video. You know what's edited out when it was in the game? Oh, I know it's earlier in the game. It's in the game. I just said earlier in the game. Okay, but from that point, he dunked on their whole team and was flying up and down the court everywhere. After the point of the pool play, he couldn't walk. Like, what are we talking about here? So let's just say, again, let's just say he got hurt.

I still don't think he did it intentionally. Of course. Weird-ass judo move. Of course, he didn't do it intentionally. Right, of course. But it, and then that was. was a, it's a play that happened that is a regrettable, horrible thing that took place and it sucks, but it was a mistake.

I don't think there was some kind of intention to do anything. But the idea that no one can even accept, maybe that is true, tells you everything you know about how toxic this has gotten. Yeah, I just think it's, I just think it's sad that it's gotten so toxic. Same thing with the same thing with the MVP, you know, conversation the whole year. This series was supposed to be fun. to be fun and instead it's like mired in

instead of celebrating the fact that we have three international players bringing the big man back in basketball and Yanis and Embed and Yokic all day yesterday after it's reported Yokic wins MVP it's like solid negativity and hate online you really? Yeah I mean it's ridiculous

I didn't see as much yeah I didn't see as much of that maybe I mean while you get like the Stephen Jackson video saying and B got F you know, you have all the stuff on social media about how, you know, the eye test versus the numbers. It's just like it's all so negative. Well, and it's also negative with all of those guys should be celebrated, all of them.

Yeah, no, it very rarely do I. It's a shame. It's really a shame. Do I just, you know, do I have an opinion where it's, look, I don't think any of you, if you want, how many times did we talk about the MVP race, Kevin? And I said, if you wanted to tell me you voted for Janus, I'd have no problems. If you wanted to tell me you voted for M.B., no problems. If you wanted to tell me you voted for Yokic, no problem. Yeah. I didn't have some kind of, I understand if you think any of those three guys is the most valuable player in the league, I think it's reasonable.

Yeah. But it ends up getting framed as it's ridiculous if another guy gets it. It's like, no, it's not. not ridiculous if another guy gets it. Right? They're all three. Unbelievable. Yeah.

Great, great years. Yep. Unbelievable seasons. We're lucky to watch basketball right now. That's the way I feel more than anything else. Speaking of Embed back in the mix, uh, tonight. Heat Sixers now knotted up at two after Mbid has come back with his Phantom of the Opera mask.

Um, it has had a profound effect. There's no way around it. Of course, they got both those games. They play both those games on their home floor. And now we had back to Miami for game five. Give me what you think about that series. I will tell you, I am, I'm surprised it's locked up at two at this point.

I think it's fair to say. But do you think that the momentum has swung completely in the series? or do you think that it is just both home teams have held surf? The series is over and the Sixers are going to win it. Wow. Yeah, because of Joe and Lumbed and his presence

on the court and how he changes the game on both ends. Offensively, everybody knows what Mbid does with his versatility in the post, picking rolls, picking pops, spot-ups. He can do it all. Defensively, though, more than anything else, though,

just the way he impacts the game with his rim protection versus Miami and their lack of creators. I know Butler's been going off, but Embed's pick and roll coverage, playing at a high level. I just think Embed, the way he's impacting the game on both ends of the court, it does not bode well for the Miami Heat. And you also see how he's just aiding, you know, other guys on the Sixers roster, whether it's Maxie and Hardin and then the pick and roll, Tobias Harris getting open shot opportunities. he's Danny Green getting open three-pointers. It just imbeats mere presence. Even if he hasn't had like his dominant moment or individual dominant game yet,

he's already enhanced everybody else in this team. And like I feel watching the last two games, I'm reminded why I pick the Sixers to go to the finals at the time of the trade. I would not pick them to go to the finals. I would not pick them to beat the Bucks or the Celtics next round. but I'm just reminded of why I had this level of belief in this team with what we've seen these last two games

with Embed Harden, Maxie, and these guys playing at such a high level. Two things. I do wonder if the heat bail on Lowry, if he is the version of himself that he was in the last game, it's just not worth trying to play it. It's really too bad, man. That's part of it. Part of why I said what I said is because on the other side, you get Kyle Lowry not looking anywhere like himself. Doesn't it look close, Chris?

He's clearly hurt. He's reaching for his legs all the time. And you might. Oh, he's out tonight. We just got a Chris Haynes report. He's out tonight with the hamstring injury, according to Chris Haynes. That makes me like the heat more in the game. I'm one of those that thinks like, a, now they're going back to Miami.

The extra guys usually play better at home. You know, that's been the case throughout NBA. history. And so, you know, the Tyler Heroes, the Max Shrews is, that whoever you want to mention, right, that those guys usually play much better on their home court and they need those guys to play really well. Jimmy Butler has been unbelievable, unbelievable, almost did it himself. And I do think that this is, I wonder how much, how many, if there's like a, if Philly now is really starting to believe in Hardin and then will be crushed winner if he doesn't replicate because he clearly was fantastic in game four.

The question is how much can you believe in him being fantastic going forward? because he certainly was not the last time they played in Miami and we know of the playoff exploits when it does matter most. And it was a close game, you know, that last one in Philly. And I thought they got the absolute best version of Hardin you could possibly get. And I hope that it put to rest the idea of what he can't do anymore or that he's hurt or whatever else. Everybody saw it. Everybody saw it.

So you know what he's capable of. We all know. He is capable of doing that. He's still not the same on drives to the basket, though. Like, he had the stepback three-pointer going. He hit five stepbacks. He had one off the catch. The five step-backs is the most he's hit in a game since May 28th of last year.

It's the since last year, Chris. So, like, I think he had that going, but the drives to the rim still aren't all the way there. even though, you know, he's still playmaking. He's still creating. I think Spolster is a great coach. And I think that one's going seven, too. I do. So you don't think so.

You think Philly's just going to run out. I mean, hey, it could go seven. I'm picking Philly in the series. Oh, okay. All right. Yeah. So I think Miami gets this one and Philly gets the next one. I think these teams play home court basketball.

And I actually think it does. Taking Lowry out of the equation makes that a very easy choice for them. But we saw this, you know, we saw this with Fred Van Vleek in that Toronto series. It was like, okay, love Fred Van Vleet. This version of Fred Van Vleet does not help you. And that is how you felt about Lowry. There were multiple times in that game where I was. like he's I appreciate him trying to gut it out but he's not helping you he can't play

he can't play and so the question is going to be do oladipo the oladipos the heroes the those other guys do they show up at home um and that's what i banked on i bank that they do show up in home games um all right so you think that the momentum has flipped, and that the Sixers are going to be able to win that series. How about in Phoenix, Dallas? By the way, for what it's worth, I hope it goes seven because there's a chance I'd be at that game. In Miami? Yeah, I'm in Miami on Sunday.

Yeah, there's a chance I'll be there. Oh, you've got to root for seven then. Yeah. I'd love to see a game seven, though. That'd be cool. South Beach. You already bought your, you already bought your thong? That's what you got to wear on South Beach.

And I'm, uh, Kevin O'Chickeeps? You're gonna walk up, you're gonna walk up at the South Beach? The opposite. I'm going full Miami Vice. You're just, hey, ladies. Oh, yeah. You're gonna let that chest tear, that gold medallion and the whole thing, huh? Oh, my goodness.

Look, if you got a chance to go to game seven, you got to root like hell for the heat tonight. Oh, yeah? You really do. I'd love to see a seven. That'd be really cool. It down there. Oh, and Sunday night. Isn't that the, that's the big night at the club down there?

Live or whatever. That could be the first time you ever go to a club. Is Sunday a big club night in Miami? I think that's the club night. Really? Sunday? Yeah. Sunday's the club night?

And after, yeah, inevitably, you and Hardin could go there after game seven, win or lose. He goes to the club either way. I'm here with Hardin. We both have beards. There you go. I could probably learn a lot about beard care from him.

Probably. He's got one of the most well-kept beards I've ever seen in my life. It's amazing. It's much better than mine for sure. He's been at it a long time. He's got the beard oil. Oh, yeah.

He's doing it all. Yeah, he's got. You think Hardin has someone take care of his beard for him? He hasn't had someone takes care of it or does he do all the beard care himself. I think he does. Like a normal guy. Yeah. I think celebrities, they're just like us.

Yeah. I think he takes care of his own view. What do you think? He's got some, you got somebody that like a round of either either a friend or a female. And he's like, hey, fix my,

trim my beard while you feed me berries. He's like, come on, bro. He's not a king. He's not. And then somebody's like waving a plant next to him to cool him off. Come on.

He's not a king. He's a basketball player. People, people have their bar. You know, and all that. I mean, I'm sure he does have a barber mess with his beer and tear every once in a while. Yes. But on a day-to-day basis, I would imagine he's in charge of his own beard, much like you are, right?

You're in charge your own beard? Or do you have? No, I'm in charge of my own beard. I don't, I go to my barber, though, to have them trim it up through the line and all that, you know. There you go. Line it up. Every couple weeks. You got to line that thing up before you get to Miami.

I'm getting close for needing a trim. I think close. All right. So you think that the momentum is switched because of the Mbid arrival in that series. How about in Phoenix, Dallas? I, this is the one, I could have foreseen a circumstance

where Philly and Miami are tied for sure. I am surprised that that one's tied. I'm surprised that Dallas and Phoenix is tied. And last week we chronicled how Chris Paul has been like even like the best fourth quarter player clutch player for a decade and a half. But this year he had been absolutely astonishing, shooting over almost 65% from the field.

He's had a couple of like perfect quarters or near perfect quarters already in the playoffs. And Dallas figured out what many other teams have not, which is, the best way to face the sons is to not have Chris Paul available at all in the fourth quarter. If you take that completely off the table, then they are a super beatable team. And of course, Chris Paul just unavailable in that last game, fouling out of that last game. What a nightmarish two-game stretch for him, man.

Truly. He was not only was he terrible, he fouled. out. Bad. Yeah. Game four, six files, four shots, game three, seven turnovers, five makes. Ugh, man.

I would be shocked if he doesn't have a huge bounce back tonight, wouldn't you? Yeah, I mean, you'd think so from a guy of his caliber. And it's a lot of, you know, when I just talked about this with Philly, the other guys, and how do they play? when they are at home versus on the road. And you got Dallas. You got a different Jalen Brunson. And you got an unbelievable Dorian Finney Smith.

Finney Smith was so good. It's those other guys, though, right? And I think that as I mentioned earlier, you know, when I was bringing up Hero and Oladipo and Danny Green, for that matter, in that last game, et cetera. etc. You know, is this what happens with those, now they need to get their star on track for sure in Chris Paul.

But the other guys, how much is going to be able to be replicated on the Dallas side? You know that Luke is going to be great every single time. Can you get a great Finney Smith? Can you get a great Brunson? and can you get a great clebe, whoever it may be, right, of those other guys stepping up in a game in Phoenix in order to get it done? I don't know. I don't know. What do you think?

Do you think they can replicate that? Do you think that they have figured something out and a way for Brunson to be successful, though he had really struggled prior to playing alongside Luca? just, you know, versus playing without Luca? I mean, I think Brunson has figured out, like he can attack Devin Booker with those downhill brute force, aggressive drives. Yeah, not as much Donovan Mitchell hate after that one.

Yeah. And Luca, I mean, I know he scored 45 in game one, but it came in a loss. Lucas is due for another monster game like that. He's 11 of 25 for 26 points in game three. nine of 25 for 26 points in game four. Like Dallas is going to get another 40 bomb from Luca at some point. And that's something why I think about like now we're in a three-game series to move on to the West Finals.

You've got to be a little nervous about that. If you're the Phoenix Suns, Luca always gives you a chance. Having Luca always gives you a chance. That's what we're finding out in this postseason. We found that out the last two post seasons for that manner too with the way the Mavericks went up against the Clippers. Yeah, I think we get a real series here. I do, Chris. I do.

Is it fair to say it is all dependent upon, you know, what level of Chris Paul they get? It's just hard to imagine. We've seen what happens when they get the crappy version of Chris Paul. He's just essential to... That's a big part of it. I mean, it's a big part of it. But like at the same time, we're also seeing Dallas attacking Camp Johnson sometimes. And I wonder, well, they do even more.

that Howard Monty Williams adjust to something like that. We're seeing campaign struggle. Are we going to see more Aaron Holiday? Instead, you know, we're seeing some pros and cons from Javala McGee. Beyondbo played some fourth quarter minutes over aitin in that last game.

That's crazy, too. Yeah, I just, I wonder how we're going to see some of those weaker spots on Phoenix, you know, continue. It's not like Phoenix doesn't have weak links necessarily. But there's weaker links, if that makes sense. And we're seeing Dallas attack those spots.

And I wonder if we see them do even more of it moving forward in the series as the games get even bigger and the stakes get even higher. Because they've done a good job of it. You've got to give Dallas credit for some of the minor adjustments that they made in the game. You got to give Jason Kid credit. You want to talk about it. He is a great lesson in, you know, and I was critical of it too, where I was like, I just don't, I don't see it.

You know, this is a team that they are Rick Carlisle who, everybody thought it was a great coach. And if you talk to other coaches, they all think Rick Carlisle's great, right? Couldn't never get out of the first round. Could never get out of the first round. They hired Jason Kidd, and he's got them in this position

in the Western Cup of semifinals. To toe to toe. Against the best team. And, you know, it was coming on the, off the heels of we watched him coach, Brooklyn, then we watched him coached with the bucks. Obviously, not so many great things to glean from the Mere and Fader

book. You know, that all happened in succession, and then he gets hired, and then even Mabbs fans are upset about it at the time, given some of the things that have happened in the past and their franchise is history and whatever else. And now you fast forward. Sky, and they have had to switch on the fly where a very essential player to them in Porzingis was in and out of the lineup, and then they trade him out. And second after the season, you know, post-January 1st, They were outstanding. End up winning in the playoffs. Now they're in round two,

knotted up with the best team. And I still think they need more roster-wise around Luca to have, you know, to be able to get past a team like Phoenix. But the fact that they're even in this spot right now and not getting wiped out speaks to, A, Lucas greatness, but also, you know,

players are great because of the positions they are put in in many cases, too. And, you know, everyone can evolve. Everyone can evolve. Except for Russell Westbro. Except for Russell Westbro. But everyone can. They have the ability to be evolved.

And what you were is not always what you are going to be. And I think he is a great example of that. Because I do think he has adapted and changed. and that he now, he's going toe to toe to with the guy that just won coach of the year who's got a better roster. There's no way around it.

And he's pushing the right buttons and he pushed the right buttons against Quinn Snyder. And kid deserves some level of credit forward as the coach, but also I think the players do as well in the sense that guys know their roles on this team. I mean, I know Jow was out with the Grizzly. like we just talked about, but I don't think Dylan Brooks knew his role in that situation, given the circumstances. I think with Dallas, Finney Smith, Bullock, Brunson, Didwinny, up and down the line,

Dwight Powell, Maxie Klebba, these guys know their roles on the team and how to best optimize who they are around Luca. And that's not always the case. Like I think we talk about guys changing Andrew Wiggins. Like Andrew Wiggins goes from this this shot chucker who plays crappy defense into this scrappy 3&D starter for a championship contender.

It's like got players can change. Players can change. And like you're right about that and so can so can coaches too. And I mean, we'll see about you know, Mike Brown coach's goal in state last night. We'll see how much he changed over.

over the years, six years as a warrior's assistant now that he gets hired by the Kings. Not only Mike Brown, Kevin, you know what would be even a better example? Mark Jackson. Oh, yeah, Mark Jackson. If that happens, because we all have an opinion of what Mark Jackson will be as a coach, like we did with Jason Kidd. And that's all I'm saying. It's a great lesson.

The Jason Kidd thing, you know, is a great lesson in what you were, isn't always what you are going to be, you know. And so people have their opinions on Mark Jackson as a head coach. He hasn't coached since 2014, though. At least Mike Brown was an assistant for six years with the Warriors. Yeah. At least Jason Kidd was an assistant with the Lakers, learning new things, getting new experience from a different perspective as an assistant,

far different than Mark Jackson being a broadcaster for nearly a decade now since he was last coaching the Warriors, far different. But we'll see. Maybe behind the scenes, you know, coaching tactics,

you know, philosophies. You never know. Maybe. Well, and maybe he builds a great staff. Maybe not. Yeah,

exactly, yeah, maybe. And that can have a profound effect also. Maybe. Right? I hope he gets a chance. Have you ever met him?

No, I've never met Mark Jackson. Let me tell you something about Mark Jackson. There's been a couple guys that are like this, where you meet them and you walk away and you're like, holy mackerel, I get why so many people like or swear by this guy. He is incredibly charming. Like, truly, like, look you in the eye,

people person, like, he's just a charming guy when you're around him, like face to face, nice guy and super charming. I've had that experience once with Isaiah Thomas, you know, the old Pistons point guard. If you ever meet him face to face, you're kind of taken in by it. Like, no matter what your opinion is of these guys, then you meet them face to face and you walk away and you're like, damn, man, that guy is, it's almost like you talk to a politician or something. you feel special. They're just like super charming, affable guys.

Yeah, sure. All the players and coaches in that locker will feel the same. No, I have no idea. I can't speak sure. But you've seen a lot of players stand up for Mark Jackson. You haven't seen his former players. And that's what matters most, you know. It doesn't matter what the media thinks about you.

You see his former players and the way they talk about him and the way they, and you can say that's true about Jason Kidd too. You ask Yonis about Jason Kidd and you ask some of those guys that were in Milwaukee about Jason Kidd. They've got much nicer things to say than maybe others, you know. And I think that's part of it, right? These guys, you know, they likeable to the people that they want to be likable to. Yeah. You know.

Anyways, it's going to be fascinating to see as some of these jobs do get filled up. I can't wait. I do think that we're going to get, you know, while we didn't get one game seven in the last round. And I do think at minimum will get two out of these series. And maybe, I think more than likely both Eastern Conrad. conference series. I think we're going to get a game seven, which would just be unbelievable. And I hope that you turn into Kevin O South Beach. And by Friday, we're talking about how you're going to be jumping on a plane with your shirt that you can unbutton all the way down to

your navel. You got your club wear ready. And you and Hardin can go celebrate win or loss on Sunday night on South Beach. That would be my greatest. Would that be wonderful? It would be amazing. That'd be great. If you sent out a picture of you and Hardin at the club on South Beach, yeah,

after win or loss. A bunch of strippers around us and Mark Jackson in the background. You never know. Stranger things have happened, Kevin. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always. Kevin, I'll talk to you on Thursday. Have a good one. Ha ha ha.