The Mismatch - Analyzing the NBA Draft and March Madness With Titus and Tate | The Void

Episode Date: March 23, 2022

Welcome to ‘The Void,’ where Kevin O’Connor brings you deep inside basketball with the people who know it best. With March Madness in full swing, KOC brings on Mark Titus and Tate Frazier from the ‘Titus and Tate’ podcast on Fox Sports. They go full swing on all the NCAA tournament action as well as the top NBA prospects. (06:42) - Why Jabari Smith Jr. struggled (13:22) - On Malaki Branham and E.J. Liddell (19:40) - Benefits of being able to test the draft process for college players (27:25) - On Christian Koloko and Arizona (34:09) - On Paolo Banchero, A.J. Griffin, and Duke (44:32) - Chet Holmgren’s NBA potential (51:09) - NBA prospects no one is talking about (58:29) - How high will Hunter Dickinson go? (01:01:07) - What makes UCLA so tough? Host: Kevin O'Connor Guest: Mark Titus and Tate Frazier Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For as long as I've known the NBA, it's been a Stars League. But even among the Stars, there's an exclusive club. Russell and Dr. Jay, Jordan, Kobe. They're all part of a select group that paved the way for the NBA superstar of today. And some even shared secrets with each other along the way. From Spotify and the Ringer podcast network, I'm Jackie McMullen. And this is the icons club. Hey, welcome to another episode of The Void.

Today I'm bringing on Mark Titus and Tate Fraser, my two old friends that I first met with the ringer. They're now with Fox Sports hosting their college basketball podcast. Titus and Tate, there they are. How are you guys doing? We're here. This is a fun reunion, COSI. I enjoy podcasting with you so much that we ask you to come on our show often and you never do.

So the fact that we can get this together on this day is a special occasion for me, for sure. Yeah, KOC, we're here to just yell about the players that we love in college basketball that we know that aren't going to be pros. But we want to wedge them into your draft guide so that we can help get PR. We could also sell it to them that we have real sway with the NBA because otherwise, what do we have? Real influence. I mean, you guys are going to turn prospects from undrafted into lottery picks. If only a guy like Fred Van Blee, they had the support of Mark Titus and Tate Frazier behind him. He never would have went undrafted.

But it turned into a good story. though. We famously said Draymond Green should have been a first round pick. A lot of people forget that. We weren't even on the air, but we both said that famously. So take that, take that for what you will. Draymond Green. Yeah. Weirdo player who goes in the second round that probably nowadays would be at first. It's like the NBA accepts and embraces weirdos nowadays. Titus, you played four years in Ohio State. We just lost over opening weekend. Tate, you went to North Carolina who faces UCLA in the Sweet 16, despite your own teams. How are you guys overall enjoying the tournament so far?

I would say it's been a great tournament. I would say it is, we're teetering on the edge of the officiating becoming too big of a story. I feel like that's being talked about in every single game. And I'm worried about that moving forward. But you got a 15 scene in the sweet 16. That's always fun. You got Coach Kay just lurking over everything.

His shadow is just at all times. over everything and he's still in the tournament. So there's that. There's been a lot of overtime games. There's been a lot of, you know, fun finishes. And I would say with the exception of, you know, like Johnny Davis, I think, is out now, Tai Tai Washington's out, Jalen Durrins. But there's still a lot of, Jabari Smith, the big one, I guess. There's still a lot of great, you know, NBA draft guys still playing. And that makes it exciting too. So all the casual fans that maybe don't care about college basketball, you still have a reason to tune in because there's still individual talent all over the place.

Yeah, we've heard too much from Jean Stereator so much in this tournament. But other than that, it's been a great tournament. As that has said, and we have a lot of teams that can win the title that are in the Sweet 16. St. Peters has been a lot of fun. Shaheen Holloway is going to be up for every job in the country. Apparently, he's going to go to Seaton Hall,

so we'll see what happens with that. But yeah, it's been great basketball so far. You guys are announcers. You announced a game earlier this season. I know you're doing a live show in New Orleans during the final four, but from this good tournament, like you're right, there's been a lot of talk about the officiating, understandably

so, but also a lot of really fun basketball. What moment from the tournament so far would you guys most have wanted to have been on the call for in the arena? Oh, for the Baylor comeback, just because I think I would have had to walk away for a little bit. If I was actually on that call,

I would have to pass it off to Titus at that point. Watching Tate have a stroke live on the air as the UNC was choking a 25-point lead would have been great theater for sure. Yeah, I would have had to leave. I mean, even at my house, KOC, I saw stars because I couldn't believe what was happening. I've never seen something like that. But then we found out the same ref that threw out Brady Manick and this game had thrown him out in 2019 for a flagrant two. So this was a repeat defender referee that had a problem with Brady Manick.

So these are the things that happen in college basketball. There's a lot of drama that comes to that. Who's the NBA equivalent of that? Wasn't there, isn't there like a famous example of a ref and a player that hate each other? Was it like Dick Povetta and Tim Duncan? Well, I mean, everybody hates Chris Ball. Yeah. Scott Foster and Chris Paul.

Chris Paul and Scott Foster are specifically the guys that have their like beef for decades. Yeah. As long as Chris Foster. Paul's been in the NBA. That's right. That's right. I knew there was like one example where it, you know, you look up the ref assignments and it's a playoff game and there's a guy on the, it must be Scott Foster, Chris

Paul. Like there's the way the sons are winning this and Scott Foster is. My moment, COC to answer your question, is the exact same game. But it's, it's not the comeback as a whole. It's the one specific moment in overtime when UNC's up by six and leaky black is trapped right on the other side of half court. He brings the ball to the ball's in the front court

and Leaky Black's trapped in the corner and he decides he's going to jump into the air and throw a 75 mile an hour pass off the backboard. That's so funny. If I was on the call for that, I would have fallen out of my chair laughing. It's a play that like is hilarious

if there's like 12 minutes left in the first half. But the fact that you would see it choked away a 25 point lead, they're getting ready to ice the game. They're up six of the men. minute left and you're like, all right, now if they can just calm down, dribble at the clock, run the ball, and make some free

throw. It was a glitch in the matrix. It was a glitch in the matrix. Yeah, Leachie Black's like, no, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to rocket her off the backboard. He was trying to throw an alley-U and then it's brainbrook. We saw, I mean, you're making me thinking about that Arboran game with Jabari Smith, who potential number one pick

in the 2022 NBA draft, star freshmen, 6, 10, and knockdown shooter, one of the most versatile defenders in all college basketball. But in that loss to Miami, he had 10 points on 16 shots. It was his worst scoring game of the season.

But that performance, he also didn't get help. Walker Kessler, another potential first round pick their center, had his worst game at the worst possible time. And then their guards, you guys talked about this on your show. Their guards were absolutely terrible. I thought at certain points they were trying to sabotage

like, we're losing this game to Vince Javari Smith to come back. But so much hero ball down the stretch. And you guys mentioned it. Coach Cal gets ripped for his coaching and Kentucky's loss. But what about Bruce Pearl? He didn't. Yes,

no ability to organize his offense. It was terrible. Yes, I love it. You're absolutely right. This was a, you could see this coming from a mile away if you watched Auburn all season. I actually had Auburn in my final four, so I'm not going to take a victory lap and pretend like I knew they were going to lose in the second round.

But if you told me Auburn was going to flame out in the NCAA, tournament. I would say I know exactly how it's going to happen and it looked exactly like it did against Miami. Yeah, Jabari was not great in this game, but you got to, if you're someone who just turned on this game and this is the first time you saw Jabari Smith, obviously it's his worst game of the season so that we shouldn't go off of that as like what kind of prospect he is. But you got to understand the context, which is that if I was Jabari Smith, I would be at my wits end playing alongside these guards at Auburn all season. Like I would have, part of the reason he was, I forget what it was, was it three for 16, something like that.

The part of the reason I think he was three for 16 is that this man, once the ball gets in his hands, he's like, I have to shoot this because if I don't, I'm never getting it back. So he takes questions, it's like a snowball effect. He takes questionable shots. And then all of his teammates, he has the, I could not think of two worse guards than Window Green and Katie Johnson to be alongside a guy like Jabari Smith, who is, I wouldn't say he's a passive player, but he's not exactly, his instinct is not like, I'm going to get up as many shots as I can. And that's part of the reason I like him as a prospect. He's not exactly a guy who's going to put up 25 shots no matter what. He wants to play within the flow of the offense,

but he has the two worst guards you could possibly imagine in college basketball playing alongside him. And that was a problem for Auburn all season. And to watch it, to watch them flame out on the biggest stage like that was very frustrating, but also not exactly a surprise. Well, Tate, I mean, what did Auburn miss with Javari Smith? Because, you know, he is a top pick. I guess how would you describe Javari Spitz's game to somebody who hadn't seen him play and produce at the level that he can? Well, he's going to go to the NBA and probably score 25,000 points.

And everyone's going to look back and say, oh, my God, that guy was at Auburn with Walker Kessler, who's also in the league, you know, getting triple doubles with blocks. And those two guys lost in the second round, which is even more of an indictment on the fact that Bruce Burrell is a terrible basketball. coach. And then if we want to give him credit for, you know, the roster, we really can't give him credit for the roster because, as Titus just said, you can't have two worse guards than the guards you had for Walker Kessler and Jabari Smith. You need someone that's trying to facilitate someone that can actually play the position that can make an entry pass that can get Jabari in good

positions to take good shots. I mean, a lot of times he was catching the ball and he's 30 feet away from the basket. There's six seconds left on the shot clock. He's like, I guess I'll just shoot it. I mean, what else is he supposed to do? And then he's getting a lot of the ball. And then he's getting killed for taking bad 30-foot jumpers, but that's on the guards. That's not on him. He's going to be a star in the NBA. I mean, I think that's a fact. This is definitely, this is definitely, hopefully, I should say. I mean, I don't know if it's definite, but God, I hope it is. This is good. This has to carry, this has to live with Bruce Pearl the way that Rick Barnes couldn't get out of the second round with Kevin Durant is

kind of his legacy to a lot of people. This should be similar to, for Bruce Pearl, because Jabari Smith was, Jabari Smith did not belong on a college basketball court. If you watch this guy all year, you're like, this is, all right, we've seen it like, the first time I watched him, I was like, I've seen enough, get him out of college. He doesn't, but like, this is, it should sit out the rest of the year. I understand why you have to go

a year to college. I understand the rule why they put it in place, but like, come on, we got to make exceptions. Get this guy out of here. He's too good. He doesn't belong on this court. Yeah, so this should, if the world is fair, this will follow Bruce Pearl the rest of his career the way it follows Rick Barnes that he couldn't get it done with Kevin

you mentioned it Titus but you know him shooting the ball not driving the basket a lot one of the NBA criticisms of Jabari Smith is like yeah he's a super versatile defender yeah he can shoot the lights out yeah he could dunk on people but shot creation is the concern that NBA people have despite how bad those Auburn guards were and are did we see that flaw in that game but this is an inability to create against Miami I think part of the problem I guess with that is is when you're 6 foot 10 and you have a smooth stroke, you're not, and you're at the college level,

you're not exactly worried about creating separation, creating shots because you can get your shot off on anybody. And so I would like to think that, that to me is a tug of war between, like, am I trying to win college basketball games or am I trying to show NBA scout stuff? And if you're trying to win college basketball games,

this was never a problem for Javari Smith at the college level, like creating his own shit. Because, I mean, this man, we saw it time and time again. He just, like, would rise up from the elbow. And he's got a six, eight guy on him with a hand in his face. And he knocks out a shot. So if you went to him and you're like, Jabari, we need to create better separation. We need you better.

He'd be like, what? What are you talking to? You know, I can get any shot off I want at this level. So, no, I, I, you know, that would be, I guess, a concern moving forward. But for me, like, watching him at the college level, I never thought, like, this is something this guy has to work on right now. because it was never, when you're that big and can shoot it as well as he can, that was never really a problem. Put him next to Cade Cunningham, and he is going to be unbelievable.

He needs someone that is going to try to facilitate his game, and he did not have that at Auburn. And that is why, I mean, he has guard skills, but he's not a guard. You know, he's not going to be able to always create a shot for himself. He needs someone to help give him in the right spots like a Cade Cunningham. That's why I think if the Pistons had the number one pick, Jabari has to be the guy. It's really about fit.

It's like the benefit for Jabari Smith at Auburn was having Walker Kessler and really protecting the rim that can kind of mimic what some NBA teams might be able to offer where he doesn't need to be the rim protector at 610. He can be that guy off ball, you know, wreak and havoc in the past games and all that. He can't if you go small, but it's nice to have. It's kind of like what the Bucks have with Janus, where Janus can be that rim protector if they have to have him at the five. But when they have Brooke Lopez, they're even better because he's like, thank you.

I don't have to bear this responsibility. on Sunday we saw two potential first round picks in the 2022 draft playing for the same team and they should be locks for the first round I'd say that's E.J. Liddell and Malachi Brinham from the Ohio State Buckeyes. I thought you were going to say Chet Holmgood and Drew Timmy. Drew Timmy should be a lock. Titus, I'm sorry to do this to you. No, Malachi is not first round. In fact, I talked to a lot of scouts and said this guy is not ready. They said he's lost out there. But they also said that like one more year, I asked him,

so I was like, how much more time does he need? They said exactly one more year. I heard that they said he should do the Jaden Ivy, right? Titus, the Jain and Ivy is what they compared to. Go back and do an Ivy. Yeah. So obviously, Titus, you went to Ohio, say you don't want to see Brannum leave. Tate, what does he do well?

Six foot five, 19-year-old freshman. What does he do well? And why is he a potential, potential? NBA first round pick this year. Shot creation. I mean, he's great off the bounce. He can get a shot whenever he wants to get a shot. I think that he has developed as the season has gone on. And Titus told me at the start of the year that Greg had pointed out that Malachi was going

to be a star. It's obvious now. I think he should come back because he will be a legitimate star. He could be a first team All-American and he could be Big Ten Player of the Year, national player of the year kind of caliber of player. But, you know, with the NBA KOC, with you guys finding these guys, so early and fishing him out of college. Yeah, he might be gone.

It's disgusting. For the record, obviously, Malachi, I want him to go get rich and have a happy life and whatever he decides to do. He has my full support. It's just that if he comes back, he has more than my full support, you know? He has even more of my full support. No, why does he need to come back? If he does come back, what is it that he needs to work on?

Well, jokes aside, I mean, like what Tate brought up with Jaden Ivy, he's not, he doesn't play like Jaden Ivy. It's more the trajectory of Jaden Ivy's two years in college that Jaden Ivy, I think, got to Purdue as a freshman and was just, it wasn't that he wasn't that he wasn't that talented. It is that, like, there was some part of him that's just like trying to crack the rotation and understand he was so gifted, but he didn't fully understand how good he was. And if you watched him as freshman year, it wasn't necessarily like up and down. It wasn't like that volatile, but he didn't really. fully understand how talented he was. He was trying to figure out how the game worked. He hit big shots.

It felt like every time they played Ohio State, he hit a game winner, and that was disgusting. But the plan for Jay Nivey was go to the NCAA tournament. I'm talking about last season, have a big NCAA tournament and then maybe go to a pro. They lose in the first round. He doesn't have the stage in the NCAA tournament. He thought he was going to have. And he comes back, and when he came back, the expectations were sky high,

and he's the face of Purdue, and it's worked out wonderfully for him. And now Jay Knivey's going to be a top five pick, almost certainly. I don't know if Malachi Brandem can get to the top five of next year's draft, but I see the same things in him that at the start of the season, he was just trying to figure out how college basketball works. And for the first time in his life, he's being guarded by guys who are as athletic as he is and as tall as he is and all that.

And to watch him this season slowly figure things out. It really was a delight. And that's part of the reason I do look. college basketball is watching guys like him who are very, very talented, but have to apply their talent within the framework of what college basketball is. And he finally figured it out. And by the end of the year, Tate said, his shot creation is incredible. He can score at every, every spot on the floor. It's so smooth, so easy for him. And I think next year, with E.J. Liddell moving on, he will have an opportunity to be the guy on Ohio State. And I think there's going to be a lot

of eyeballs on him and he could score. I mean, honestly, you could average 22, 23 points a game if you really wanted to. And I don't know. So I don't know how much that's going to help his draft stock or whatever, because I'm sure he's going to go to workouts and what else this offseason and kill it and those workouts. And he's probably going to get a first round grade and leave. But it's like late first round or lottery is what I would say to do. I think he could be a lottery guy. I think he could be a lottery guy. He's a late first round guy. I mean, we kind of saw that with E. J. Ladell. He test the draft waters before this season. He's six foot seven forward,

goes through that pre-draft process, and teams tell him, come back a better perimeter defender and shooter. So he returned to school. And, I mean, did he do that, take? Did he go back to Ohio State and improve in those categories? Absolutely. And he should be, I mean,

I don't, you know, obviously, I don't really care that much about first team all America. I don't want to argue about it. But E.J. Liddell checked all the boxes of being a first team all American this year. And he also slimmed down a little bit as tightest He lost a little bit of his butt, but that was good thing. I think EJs look great, and I could see why a team buys into E.J. Lidel, you know, late first round, early second round.

I'll say this about EJ. My scouted report on EJ is he will figure it out. I promise you that. E.J. Lidel, you tell him what he needs to work on. If NBA scout, KOC, if you look at E.J. Lidel and you say that he's shooting with the wrong hand, E.J. Lidel, I promise you, he will never shoot another shot with his right hand. All he would do is a shoe with his, you know what I mean? He will not cower away and go play Call of Duty.

He is, yeah. He's extremely coachable. So, like, I don't know where you're drafting this guy, but I'm telling you whatever team ends up with him. He's got obvious limitations. I understand that. But, like, whoever drafts DJ Liddell is going to get a guy that will do literally anything you tell him to do. And I think there's value in that. And I will ride with DJ Lade.

He's an all-time buck guy. That guy, if it's up to me, I'm putting his jersey. in the rafters. I'm putting a lot of jersey in the rafters, though, to be honest. I'd probably find a way to sneak my own up there. As me as Coach Gay. But EJ's awesome. So that's my spiel on EJ. I hope he goes first round. But if he doesn't, wherever he ends up, he's going to be a steal for that team, I think. Isn't it nice nowadays, though, that guys, players have that option to test the draft waters, then go back to school. Because guys like Liddell, even Brannum could be. I mean, like, he might decide to stay at Ohio State after testing NBA pre-draft stuff.

Like, having that option is just such a great benefit for players. And I don't know, like being able to go back to school rather than rush your path to the draft, I feel like watching college basketball from, you know, kind of not up close like you guys do, but I feel like there's a lot of high-level talent. I mean, I look at the NBA draft this year and I'm like, damn, there's a lot of good college players. Did you guys sense that all year? Yeah, for sure. And I think name image likeness is going to help that because I think,

the idea of coming back. And, you know, these guys aren't getting rich coming back. It's not like if Malachi Bram comes back, he's going to get $2 million from Ohio State next year. But I don't know, he might make like 150 grand or something. And that's, you know, that's not the same as signing a first round contract, but it's something. It's better than nothing, you know. So I think that makes it more, the idea of coming back more attractive because there is something there at least versus like I'm going back for swipes at the, the school cafeteria and a scholarship for a for a freaking sociology degree I'm never going to use

you know like so I I do think that's encouraging that guys are now we're out and narrow where guys can go test the waters they can they can talk to agents they can do that sort of stuff that they couldn't do in the past and then if they come back it's not like you're giving up you know it's not a choice between three million dollars a year and zero dollars a year now it's it's a little you know easier to make that decision I think Yeah, and more guys know that it's fun to be a star in college. I mean, look at Johnny Juzing. I thought that Johnny Juzing would be, you know, somewhere in the 20s when we look at an NBA

draft board. And I was looking at the NBA draft board's KOC, and that is not the case. Johnny Juzing is not there. So Johnny Juzing is going to milk out the idea of being a star at UCLA, as he should. And he's the face of their program right now, and you can enjoy that. And that is, I mean, that sometimes is more valuable as far as, like, the cash you may have moving forward, then going and being a, you know, a second round pick that's a two-way guy that's bouncing back and forth, you know, and didn't stay long enough. So, I mean, like you said, testing the waters is great that you don't screw yourself by saying, I want to be an NBA guy and you have nowhere to go. You have no leeway to come back. Now you can do a little bit of both. It makes total sense. I was thinking about with Branham, like he is kind of an unexpected one and done. Titus, is it fair to say your freshman year at OSU, Mike Conley was an unexpected one and done? Yes, Mike Conley was 100% coming back to school if Ron Lewis doesn't hit the shot against Xavier to keep our NCAA tournament.

In the second round, we almost lost the Xavier. We beat him in overtime because Ron Lewis Heroics. If that shot doesn't go down, Mike Connolly's back in school. But instead it did. Then Mike played out of his mind that NCAA tournament. And after the season, when that decision was ready to make, Greg wanted to come back too. And like every single person in Ohio State was like, Greg, that's idiot. But to Tate's point, I think both of those guys, and they're not alone, they're a ton of guys in the NBA that are Hall of Fame players, that when they look back on their career, like the fondest memories they have, and this is a generalization, obviously, it's not true of everyone.

But a lot of times, like, guys, the fondest memories they have are playing in college. And they're like, that was sick. You know what's kind of cool? KOSC is being 20 years old and being literally God on these campuses and having all these, you know, going to parties with all your peers. and all, you know what I mean? And like when you, when you go to the NBA, it's still, you know, it's sort of similar. You're still like, you know, treated like a god. But it's not the same.

Yeah. College is just the show without the business. Yes. And the show is everybody loves the show. You know what I mean? The other part that's attractive to coming back is like these guys have, college is like the one place that they made this decision to be here. Like when you're in high school, your parents usually decide like we're going to live here and

this is the high school you go to. And when you're in the pros, it's whoever you get drafted to, wherever you get traded to, whatever. Not so much now in the NBA, because players can literally do whatever they want and decide what teams. But, uh, so like, I think there's that players can transfer them easily, easier than ever too. Yeah, but, but like that's the, I think that's an appeal too is like I chose, I like this is the reason I love being here because I look, I could go to any school in the country and I chose a Texas or UCLA or wherever it is. Um, why would I want to leave now? Like, this is sick. I created this whole situation for myself. So, uh, I don't know. That's, that's that.

But to your point, yeah, Mike Conley was 100% coming back. And he played well in the NCAA tournament and left. So that's interesting to me, is guys who do that, who use the NCAA tournament as a springboard to kind of come out of nowhere and decide they're going to go. And maybe we'll see something like that with Ben Matherin, with Arizona. He was probably in the draft anyway.

It's a late lateral guy mid-first. But, you know, people watching him, I had probably more texts about Matherin over the weekend. He's awesome. Yeah. He's awesome. anybody else. That dude,

that dude down the stretch of the game, someone texted me calling him a werewolf. And now to stretch to that game, I thought that was an accurate description of Matherin's game. Dude's crazy. Yeah, I mean, he's got a lot of firepower.

He also, he obviously feels disrespected. I think that's the funny part. How many mythical creatures, how many mythical creatures can NBA people come up with to compare? Unicorns, werewolves, vampires.

Vampires. Doug Eater, to me, is like a leprechaun out there for St. Peter's. He just kind of... Yeah, yeah. Javon Carter's like a gargoyle out there. We do need more mythical creatures now that you say this. We've got unicorns. Too many unicorns.

Too many unicorns. Can I get on this train? Palo Bencaro is a centaur. When I watch him, I just think he's got a lot of centaur to his game. Honestly, I see it. I see what you're saying. With Mathrin being a werewolf, what makes him a werewolf? I mean, I'll say this.

I'll say this about Mathrin, GEOC. He really does. I mean, he has the athletic ability, obviously, but he has that fight, that heart, whatever you want to call it. I mean, something that you really can't measure. And this team around him, this Arizona team, Dail and Terry, all these other guys, they believe in him. They think that he is going to lead them to the title.

They think that he's the best player in the country. He has that kind of, for lack of a better term, alpha mentality about the way he carries himself. I think he's a lottery pick. I think he kind of has proven that he should be a lottery pick. When I look at these other guys that are left in the tournament, I mean, he's right up there with an IV or an A.J. Griffin. I mean, I don't know. I mean, if I have A.J. Griffin or if I have Matherin, I think I'm going to take Matherin just because of the way he carries himself in that confidence.

Yeah, I mean, it's that's a coin flip situation. for me. I think Ivy is Ivy's athletic ability, like he's on another level. His physical tools, Ivy, so Ivy's a top three, top four guy. Mathrin's probably like five to ten range. Yeah, if you told me Mathrin,

I mean, like, Jabari, Chet, Ivy, Palo, but Palo to me is like kind of falling a little bit. Like Palo's not as as sexy as he once was. But I think Mathrin's in that next year. Like if you told me Mathrin's the top of that next like tier or whatever. I'm fine with that. I mean, that guy is, he's been this way all year too. Like he kind of came out of nowhere, not that he wasn't heralded when he got to Arizona,

but like last year, Arizona had a semi-forgetable season. Terrible coach. They weren't eligible for the NCAA tournament. And this year, Mathron under Tommy Lloyd and having more freedom, because like the coaching change between Sean Miller, who's more of a rigid coach and kind of has his system and tries to fit guys into how he's trying to do things. And Tommy Lloyd is just like a free flowing, let guys loose. Mathrin has exploded. He has been one of the fun revelations of this season because I certainly didn't see this coming from Benedict Mathrimon this year.

I mean, even Christian Coloco, Junior, 7-1, 230 pounds. He's going to be 22 in the NBA, but he goes from a freshman getting occasional minutes next to Nico Mannion, Josh Green, Zeke Nage, that fun Arizona team. As a sophomore, he becomes more of a regular. And now as a junior, he's starting every game. He's all back 12, Pac 12, all defense, most approved player, defensive player of the year in the back 12. I mean, and my, like when I was evaluating him,

I felt this guy is a no-brainer first round pick. And in my heart, I'm like, this guy's a lottery pick. But I don't have him in the lottery yet, but damn, like Coloco's turned into a heck of a player. Yeah, I think if it was, I mean, if we're in 1995, Coloco's like top five big. Yeah. You know what I mean? like that that's kind of the crazy part with all this and it's really hard and i think uh d'andre a hope has helped a lot of people understand the value of a big you know i mean he goes number one he

gets his team to the finals i know a lot of people want to give credit everywhere else but him but he's a big part of that team and i think coloco could be an anchor as a big like that and every team needs that if you're the brooklyn nets you need that that's why they are happy to have andre drummond every team that's really going to make a run needs a big like colico so i i think Arizona as a whole is a great case study and different coaching philosophies. Because Sean Miller is not, you know, Sean Miller is not a terrible coach. And I think his end in Arizona, it became easy to pile on and all that. He's not a bad basketball coach.

What he is, though, he's more of an old school guy in the sense that when you would watch Arizona play, this isn't necessarily true, but this is like the feeling you would get is like the guys are overthinking. They're almost like looking to the bench saying, Sean, what do we do now? Okay, now pass it here. Okay. What player are we running? Yeah. And what Tommy Lloyd has done is just given this entire team confidence to where Coloco and Matherin and certainly Kirk Cresa,

who is next year when we do the show, KOC, be prepared for me to be selling you on Kirk Cresa. All of these guys just have insane confidence and not only confidence, but like freedom to make mistakes. And that is very rare in college basketball because, traditionally college basketball is a bunch of old school dudes that like it's their way or the highway. And if you make a bad pass, I'm pulling you. Like, Bo Ryan at Wisconsin was famous for that. Like the second, his starting point guard has a turnover in the first four minutes. He pulls him.

He sits him on the bench and he's like your punishment for turning the ball over sitting on the bit. You know, and I guess it worked for him. He got the two final fours. But my point is like that, that's, Arizona has been fun to watch because the guys like Coloco and Mathurin and Kirk Creeza who, last year were kind of confined almost mentally. And this year, it's like let him loose, let Benedict Mathrin in these big moments against TCU, hit big

shots and dunk on guys. And Coloco has, you know, he's given up a ton of offensive rebounds, but he's also an absolute beast and that tip dunk at the end of the game. I mean, that Arizona, TCU game was, that was an all-time game. That was like, it was fun, it was exciting ending, but some of the

plays that were being made in that game for both teams were incredible. And, yeah, so. I was screaming. at the end of that game. It was fun. And then with Houston, their next opponent in the Sweet 16, I'm not just an NBA snob. I was doing some research here, and I saw

Kelvin Sampson. He lost multiple key guys earlier in the season. Arizona's top five in pace. Houston ranks in the 300s, these totally different styles. Yeah. What does a fan tuning in for just a good college game or for

NBA draft prospects need to know about Arizona's opponent in Houston? Well, I mean, Houston, it's going to be similar to TCU because Houston will crash the offensive glass. So this will be interesting to see, like, the Coloco and Omar Balo for Arizona. Their backup big dude was, I thought he gave him good minutes. And then they pulled them, I think when they were up like nine or ten, Arizona did. And TCU started crushing them on the glass again. Houston is a great offensive rebounding team.

But they are, this is a classic stylistic match where, like, Houston's a fun team to watch. I think NBA fans will enjoy watching Houston, but Houston is unmistakably, undeniably, a college basketball team. Like, this team is team defense. They, I guess Edwards might be a semi-star, you could argue, but, like, they don't have stars. They don't have, if you're looking at, like, who could potentially be even, like, Final Four most outstanding player,

I would imagine Houston doesn't have a guy in the top 10 or 15 of those odds right now, because they don't win games. the back of Jamal Shed or Edwards. They win games of team defense. They win games crashing in the glass. And they win games like buying into the culture that Kelvin Samson has built there. So it's going to be a fascinating matchup because Arizona is, I wouldn't say they're soft, but they're definitely finesse.

And they play like a European NBA kind of style of basketball, which is a ton of fun to watch. But it doesn't always work, especially when you factor in college basketball refs and you have no idea what kind of game they're going to call. I was going to say, yeah, this could be a game. game, you mentioned the pace, KOC. I mean, this is a game that if Houston plays the way that Houston wants to play, this is not good news for Arizona. This is a game that we like to call it a muck. You know, this could be a game where Houston mucks it up and Arizona doesn't want to get the mud with this team and Houston dominates the glass and they're able to, you know, will their way

to a win. Similarly, I would say Duke Texas Tech is going to be a similar stylish to clash tug-a-war of like Texas Tech trying to just like punk Duke, you know, and Duke's like, What the hell are you doing? We're more talented. Let us win. Get your hands off me. All right. So let's talk about Duke and Texas Tech.

Titus, you mentioned you're not as high on Banerero anymore. Tate, we saw Bencaro. Great start of the season. Great win for Duke against Gonzaga and Chet Holmgren. What happened with Banerow, Tate, over the course of the season, going from the highs early on to the serious ups and downs we've seen as of late? Yeah, I mean, I don't think much has changed with Bencaro. I think he's always been who he is, which is a score.

I mean, I think that Auburn, I said this on our show last night. Alvern was the most selfish team in the tournament. I think Duke is the second most selfish team. And I think it starts with Palo Bencaro. Bencaro. I think he is a very selfish player. And that's not always a bad thing, especially when you get to the NBA, a guy who's going to be able to get his shots.

And if you want to find a franchise guy, I think he fits the bill because he believes he is a franchise guy. He has that mentality. So I give him credit for that. I respect that. But when you look at this team and the way the Duke is constructed, I think if they played through Mark Williams first and foremost, they'd be a much more threatening team.

He is the one on their team, both defensively, the ACC defensive player of the year, could be the national defensive player of the year. He shoots like 71% from the field. I mean, something ridiculous. AJ Griffin is the other guy that I think on this Duke team that fascinates me,

maybe more so than Ben Carrow. Ben Carrow is just, I kind of know what I'm getting with him. You know what I mean? And I think with Mark Williams and AJ Griffin, we don't see enough. So the intrigue is there and the curiosity of their potential. It makes them more intriguing as prospects because we know what Van Karo is. I'd say it is exactly right with me with Ban Karo that, like, I kind of just know what he is.

Like he doesn't feel special to me at this point, which is not, it sounds like a knock. Like anytime you say you're cooling off on a guy, it's like it makes it sound like I think he sucks now. I don't. Palo Bencaro is going to have a long NBA career. He's going to play in the league as long as he wants to. But I think early on in the season, there was a sense that he was special, you know, and like he was right there with Jabari Smith. He's not a great defender.

He doesn't inspire anything on that end of the floor. Like, there's nothing. If I told you to pull five defensive highlights of Palo Bencaro, they're probably all just like helpside blocks that he just timed right. You know, like he's not fundamentally, there's not like a play where you're like, oh my God, this guy, it could guard anybody at the next level, you know, like you get with Jabari Smith. I think he's not as good of a shooter as we thought. Or maybe that shot selection, but I think early on you were intoxicated by the idea of, you know,

if you watch the Gonzaga game, he was hitting tough shots and he kind of got it going and his confidence was through the roof. And that was exciting. But as the season wore on, he hasn't been like the knockdown three-point shooter we thought he was. But, you know, he's a score and he can get his. and I have no doubt in my mind he's going to average, you know, 15 plus as a rookie and and score a ton of points in the NBA. It's just kind of the things Tate said, though, is it's, there's nothing necessarily

special when I watch him that I think to myself, this, I've never seen this before at a college level. I have seen, I've seen Palo Bencaro. We're going to see another Palo Bencaro. He's going to have to learn how to defend. I mean, it kind of reminds me of R.J. Barrett when R.J. was in college. I mean, I had the same feelings about him. It's like, I get it.

He can score. I think he has obviously a gift, but he's going to have to learn how to defend it. Look what RJ's done. RJ's become a really good defender. Well, I mean, how much is it that tape? Because, like, R.J. Barrett becomes a really good defender in the NBA for the next. Tatum at Duke, he had that angle injury early in the season.

His defense falls off, but he's become a great defender for the Celtics with Van Carrow. I'm watching him. And like, you hear about him out of high school and you're like, okay, potentially very versatile. They say, I remember hearing positive stuff about his work ethic. I feel like watching him at Duky checked out. Like defensively, the effort, the intensity, the focus, it just wasn't there, Tate. I don't know. Yeah, there's definitely questions about that.

And I mean, obviously, they have a lot of pressure on them. And I don't want to, you know, push that away. I mean, Coach K has put a lot of pressure on these kids. I mean, to basically be him on the court and win games for his, you know, his own record and resume. So, I mean, there's a lot that's on them. And I would probably check out, too, if this guy was taking credit for all my success. I would be a little checked out. I mean, if we're talking about,

if we're talking about schemes and stuff, KOC, like part of the thing with Duke, too, is like they, the way Duke approaches defense is that they look at their roster, they realize they have five first round, this is like every single year. They realize they have four or five first round picks maybe.

They realize they're more athletic than the other team. And so they just like pressure, pressure the ball. They, like, their defensive philosophy can basically boil down to, we are longer and more athletic. Just go be long. athletic and I think at times when you're watching like a bancaro that that being long and

athletic breaks down because if he's not giving full effort and if he doesn't fully understand like where he's supposed to be at help side at times and like ball rotations and stuff like that uh which i don't you know i don't mean to say that coach k's not coaching that stuff but he's certainly not coaching at the level that like a kelvin sampson for example is coaching or a scott drew or a mark adams at tex so i think there's a lot of that there's like just fundamental breakdowns that you can then save by being athletic freak or having a Mark Williams behind you or stuff like that that has become, I don't want to say problems, but like when you watch Duke prospects coming out of college, that seems to be like a recurring theme of like, do they know

what they're doing defensively? Yeah. Yeah. And that's kind of why is because they don't have to be fundamentally sound defensively because they can first of all score a ton of points on the other end. So like they frankly just don't care that much about defense. And then even on the defensive they're like, we're three inches taller and everybody were guarding and we can jump three inches higher. They look at every single game and they say we're going to win our matchup individually and they think that means they're going to win the game.

That's pretty much their mindset. With AJ Griffin, he turned his ankle at the end of the Duke's last game. For NBA fans, and I guess for Duke fans watching him against Texas Tech, what's the matchup situation going to be for AJ Griffin and also just, what do you

think about his game overall and how it might project to the NBA? I think AJ Griffin obviously son of Adrian Griffin. I think he gets it. I think he is a really good player. I would love to see a coach at the next level really buy into him and give him the keys, so to speak, and say, hey, I think you can really be a great guard.

I don't know if he's going to be more of a three than he is a one. I mean, but I like that he can guard one through three. I like that he's six-six. I like how versatile he is. I like his demeanor a lot. He's very even-keeled from everything to, I've heard about him. He seems like a great kid.

I'm a big fan of AJ Griffin and his game, and if I were an NBA team, like I said, Mark Williams and AJ Griffin to me, just the way that they carry themselves, they fascinate me more than say a bank hero. And Mark Williams, like he's another one of those bigs. We mentioned Walker Kessler

earlier with Auburn. Granted, his last game was a dud, but he's going to be a first round pick. Very good. There's a lot of good bigs in this year's drafted. Mark Williams. I don't know. Like you said, this earlier. I feel like there's more to his game that could have been unleashed under different circumstances.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's the if you're recruiting against Duke, you would say stuff like, like obviously the appeal of going to play Duke is you're playing alongside four other guys that are going to be in the NBA probably. And that's certainly

awesome. And you have the huge platform. But I do think that yeah, Mark Williams on a different team with a group of guys that are going to play through him. He is an interesting prospect to me for that regard. He can handle. He can pass. He's so much more talented than he's been able to showcase this season.

And you do see it in flashes. And even if you ask people that follow college basketball closely to name Duke players, I would imagine Mark Williams is probably fifth or sixth name they mentioned. They might not even know his name. They might just be like, who's the tall guy? The big guy. Yeah, the big guy. And that's crazy because that dude is so.

so good and he's not just uh i mean sometimes there are a lot of dude games he just gets relegated to be in the the guy who blocks shots and dunks on the other end um and he could certainly do that well but he's got so much more to his game than that he reminds me a little bit of robert williams in that sense with the selvics we saw flashes from robert williams and he was mostly a lob threat shop blocker but there was a little bit more with the playmaking that he's really tapped into with boston and and mark williams could get into that i mean that you're right though that's that's that's the tough thing with evaluating some of these guys.

You're making me think about Coach Cal, Devin Booker, doesn't run any pick and roll in Kentucky years ago. Cat doesn't shoot threes. And it's just like situation and environment for these college guys

can really make a difference in what skills they're even able to show on the court. I get that that's frustrating, by the way, for NBA people, but that's the way, like we were saying earlier, the tug of war you have with...

Trying to win games. Are you trying to win games or are you trying to get your guys drafted? And Cal, and Cal's trying to get his guys drafted. Cal after 2015, he's like, I'm just getting good drives. Let's just get guys drafted. That's all that matters. He heard all the NBA guys say,

you didn't run any pick and roll with Devin Booker, and he was like, never again. Never again. I mean, it's similar with Gonzaga because Chad Holmgren in high school, you hear about him as a 7-foot-1, big, can block shots, finish at the rim,

and play make a little bit. He used to run more offense, but with Gonzaga, his responsibility as a playmaker is to throw entry passes to Drew Timmy, as it should be. Like, that should be your role. That should be, yeah, yeah. I mean, what good does it do for Mark Few to, especially with that program? Because, like, in Zaga, the one thing they haven't done is won a national title.

And they, they want it so much more than any other program because they've done literally everything else. But, like, imagine a world where Mark Few is putting a John Calipari mask on and they'd lose in the second round, but he's there on draft night and Chet Holmgren goes number one and he gets in front of a camera and he's like, we had a great season. Character counts, baby. With Chet,

you know, mixed reviews for a lot of people who watch Chet Homer in the first time over the weekend. I feel like we didn't learn a lot about Chet. It was more of the pros with the shot blocking

and the finishing at the room and more of the cons with sometimes the inability to create, generate offense himself. What's your guys take on? the Chet Holmgren experience. Chet Holmgren is unlike any basketball player I've ever seen, much less

prospect. I think the, not that you do this, but I, certainly, you're smarter than this go see, but a lot of like casual observers would maybe make comparisons to Kevin Durant because he's so skinny, you know, and I, that was happening a lot early in the season. Too much. Yeah. This man is not, this man is not even close to Kevin Durant because he's not trying to be Kevin Durant. Chet Holmgren's trying to, he's very, again, like passive feels like too strong of a word,

but he's so content with just doing whatever it is that he needs to do to impact the game. And I think, like, I are on the side of being very pro-chette because of that. Because, like, I guess if you're using a number one pick, you want a guy who's going to be the number one option on offense and carry you to an NBA title and all that kind of stuff. I get that, but it's like a basketball purist in me. Chet Holmgren, I know that you can put him on any roster with any group of guys in any setting. And he is going to find a way to impact the game. And maybe he shoots three times in that game, but he's going to have nine blocks and four or five assists.

And then the next game, he's going to have 27 points. And, you know, he's breaking people's brains because he's something. I don't know what mythical feature we're, uh, mythical creature we're going to use for Chet. but he is so unlike anything we've ever seen. And for some people, that's a good thing. For others, it's like, I want Jabari Smith because when I watch Jabari Smith, he fits the exact mold I have in my mind of what a basketball player should be. He looks a lot like a number one pick.

I know what I'm getting with that guy. With Chet, you have no idea. But I would say that like the bus potential for Chet, I think that I've seen a little bit of discussion with that. Like Chet has a higher bus potential than, you know, maybe a Jabari or whatever. I don't know if that's necessarily true. It just kind of depends on how you define, it depends on how you define bust. If you're talking like, you know, is there a world where Chet Holmgren only averages 15 points a game in NBA?

I think that could be true. But alongside those 15 points, he's probably averaging 12 rebounds and four and a half blocks and fucking, you know, like this guy does literally everything there is to do on a basketball court. And for that reason, I love him. I love Chet. I love watching him play basketball. I think Chet is a Cyclops, as I've been sitting here thinking about what he is. I think he's a Cyclops. I think he's also a guy KOC that could have the first quintuple double in the NBA,

a guy that could have 10 blocks, 10 steals, 10 assists, 10 points, 10 rebounds. I think he's the first player that can do that. So if you want to call that guy a bust, you can, there's no way that he's a bus. I think, as Titus said, I don't understand how you can watch him and think he could be a bus, because he impacts. He makes you think about it no matter what if you're on the other team because of his rim protection and his versatility and his ability to close out on a three and

also defend the basket because of his length. He's insane. He's freakish. He's a cyclops. The concerns about his weight, too. I mean, don't we have, again, not to make a comparison to Durant, there's Janus, there's Janus.

There's so many, like... Or Zingis. There's so many guys that are... And they get bigger over the course of time, or at least stronger with whatever their body type is. Their body developed. But the way the game, like every person that's this point that Chet's too skinny

he's going to get killed. They say he's not tough. That's the thing you hear. They say he's skinny. He's definitely tough. He's definitely tough. He saw him battle in Janeland Duren. Yeah.

Like there's this play down the stretch of that game. He's not scared. Not at all. Yeah, not at all. And he's bumping players. He's playing hard. I mean, he checks. He reminds me of Clay Thompson, the way you guys are talking about him.

Selfless plays his role. Yeah. He is willing to do what it takes to win and willing to take a backseat when he needs to, willing to be the driver when he needs to. That, like you said, Titatimizes what you want on a team that's trying to win a championship. If you challenge Chet Holmgren, if Gonzaga does in fact make the final four,

and before the final four, I don't know why you would do this, but it's a hypothetical. You tell Chet Holmgren, you cannot shoot in any of these games. Do not take a single shot. But obviously, we're going to go out and try to win. Chet Holmgren could still win most outstanding player in the final four. He's good enough to still do that. And the idea that he's too skinny and not tough, that's insane to me too,

because all the people making this point are fully aware that the league has gone, it's more perimeral. Like, they're talking about it. Like, the league is like we're in 1992, and it's just nothing but big dudes. And he's going to have to guard Shaq and Patrick Ewing

and I'm like, what league are we talking about here? He's going to be all right. I mean, you got to guard Embed and Yokic, and like those are the only two bigs where it's like interior. He might not have to.

Yeah. And guess what? Kevin. Kevin, guess what? Nobody can guard and beading Yokin. Exactly. Who can't guard him?

So I don't want to hear that either. Nobody. Nobody can't guard him. You can go there. It's a player of the year. And Beed can't guard Yokic. Yokic can't guard and beat. Yeah.

Exactly. Nobody can. And that's why with Chet Holmgren, I am, I'm obsessed. I'm bringing up Robert Williams again. What the Celtics have done with Robert Williams this year is they have him playing off ball. So like let's say Boston's facing Philadelphia. Al Horford will be defending

Joella Bid. Robert Williams will be somewhere off ball, helping from a corner three point position spot, staying near the rim. That's what Chad Holmgren's role would be in a matchup against Embed or Yokic or even against Yannis. He's going to have him in that offball

he's just causing havoc the whole time. Yeah. And you have to think about it and you have to respect Chad around the rim. I mean, so if you're anyone facing him, you have to worry about him. So he's in the scouting report every single time. So he takes up, like you said, Clayton, like he takes up space in your mind. You have to worry about him

no matter what. And that adds value to any team. So why would he there's no way he can be a bust. That's ridiculous. He can't be a bust. Let's go through seven rapid fire-ish questions to wrap up our discussion here. Number one,

is there a player remaining in the tournament that no one is talking about who you think has a chance to make it in the NBA? that no one is talking about. That's a great question. I think Isaiah Wong going Miami. I think Isaiah Wong is a guy. He was great against Auburn. He is an athletic guard. I mean, he can play one through three if he had to. I think he'd be a guy that would stand out to me. I love Hami Hawkes. I've seen him on a few draft boards. He's obviously dealing with some ankle problems right now, but more people should talk about Hami Hawkees, especially if not, they're not going to talk about Johnny

juzing and then brady mannick he's averaging 27 points per game uh in the ncdbara tournament i don't know how no one is comparing him to larry bird i see shades of bird um nicknamed prairie bird uh so for all those celtics people out there kevin o'connor why aren't they going crazy for brady manick i just don't get it seems like seems like there's some hate that's coming maybe some duke bias there in boston i don't know what it is but those are those are my three guys how much you tied us i have i have not it's been a while since i've check mock draft boards. Is Bryson Williams,

a guy that's on anybody's radar at Texas Tech? He's 6-8, great defender, shooting like, I want to say 40%, 41% from three. He has been, Kevin O'Banner's been Texas Tech's best player

in the NCAA tournament, but Bryson Williams has been their best player all season. And I think he's like 26 years old. This guy has transferred like three or four times and set out a year or two. I can't imagine a world where NBA scowls are salivating over Bryson Williams per se. But he's a guy that I would say when I look up in five years and he is on a playoff team and coming off the bench

and he's like the eighth or ninth man, but he's, I won't be surprised. I won't be surprised if Bryson Williams finds a spot in the league, but I also, I'm not going to exactly make an argument that he needs to go first round or anything. Number two, O'Chai Abaji is my highest ranked senior speaking about older players. What is he turned into for Kansas

and how might his role change in the NBA based up what we might have seen when he was younger player because now he's going to be young in the NBA rather than one of the old heads. Let me just tell you, KOC. Agbaji is one of those guys where like if the bucks drafted him or the Nets, like he could actually start on their teams or the Miami Heat.

He could start on their teams next year and actually be okay because he knows how to play defense. And we were talking about team defense and Titus talking about some of the Duke guys having to figure out when to help, when to do this, to do that. This guy gets it. And he also, I mean, when the season ends, a lot of guys are like, I need to take a break from basketball. I need to go on vacation. I need to get away from it. O'Chai Ag Baji's in the gym the gym in that sense where it's like he lives in the gym.

He wants to get better. He's only going to get better. He has all the natural gifts that you would want from someone. And I sincerely think, and I'm not even kidding, that he's going to be a really, really good player and maybe like a first team all defense type of player in the NBA at some point. So I really like Otaic Bajahy. Also character, Bruce Pearl taught us character counts. And Ochaj Baji has, he's an easy dude to rue for him.

And he's just like, real character. Like, in all seriousness, like I, I think that, that excites me on top of everything Tate just said. He is like,

he is a guy that is going to figure it out. He's got work ethic. He's, he's not going to be a locker room cancer in any way, shape, or form. So, yeah,

he's, he's, he's, he's a guy that's, very, very easy to root for. Ocheck. I watched a bunch of interviews with him, and great kid. Seems awesome.

Great kid. I love him. I've heard all good things about him. Number three, if Shaden Sharp had been able to play this season for Kentucky, how different would their season have gone to Sharp? I truly believe this. Did Coach Gallupary give you that question? I truly believe this, KOSC.

This is going to sound crazy, but I truly believe this. I believe that Kentucky could have forced the second overtime with St. Peter's. I do believe that. not to play the one is game, but I do think that that game goes to double overtime. We're going to two OTs with Sharp on the court.

Yeah, what a ridiculous. I don't think that changes their season at all. I think it actually would have hurt some of their success probably. He's good though. He's good.

I will say, I've never seen, I haven't seen much tape on Shaden Sharp. I've seen that he's supposed to be a top-by pick. I'm sure he's very talented. But,

I mean, we saw what Amani Bates was to Memphis. That's probably what he would have been like. You'd have probably been like an additive piece but no way is he an actual significant factor on that team I don't think

well let's move on to another guy that fell flat on his face Patrick Baldwin what happened with him he was supposed to be a top 10 guy I mean he was he was hurt for a lot of the year also what happened with him was the moment he committed to play for his father I think we all saw where this was gone but like

I didn't necessarily think he was going to fall out of where's even graded right now late first Oh my God. And that's from teams thinking, why don't take a shot on a 6-11 dude who can handle the ball and theoretically shoot,

theoretically defend multiple positions. Yeah, it's sad because I don't like theoretical. Yeah, I don't like theoretical either. I like certainties in the draft. That's one thing I'm learning. Theoreticals don't always go too well and relationships and with the NBA draft. I do love the idea of a guy going to play for his dad

or just not playing for the traditional blue bloods and, you know, that's, but man, that is a great case study. Yeah. Why you just go to Duke or Carolina or Kentucky. Yeah. Ray McCallum Jr. taught us that, too. Remember, he went to Detroit to play for his dad instead of going to Carolina. I mean, there's, there's been a few of those.

I mean, if he gets drafted in the late first round, I would say it wasn't that big of a deal because he's still a first rounder. But if he falls beyond that, that would be maybe he stays in college, right? Maybe he can stay in college. Well, his dad got fired, right? So, like, I don't know, I don't know, uh, is if his dad, maybe, maybe his dad gets a job with overtime elite and he goes to place with him. Oh, God. Yeah, I do want to ask you, KFC, your overtime elite top five.

Do you have those? Like, do you have your, I, I don't think we can get to five. We can't get to five. We can get the one. Um, but other than that, unfortunately, I mean, we get all these leagues now. And so many different paths. So Montaro is the one. guy in the overtime elite that could

potentially go first round but you got like Y NBL you get Australia you got OTE you get college G League it's a lot of different don't put college in that group college those are all the other leagues those are all the yeah the others fifth question

Iowa forward Keegan Murray and Wisconsin Guard Johnny Davis both potential lottery picks Davis won big 10 player of the year over Murray quick answer here who do you guys think it ends up the better player Davis or Murray in the NBA? Murray. Murray, he's bigger.

He's got a, I, Johnny Davis fell off a little bit toward. Davis is good. I like Johnny Davis a lot. Did they make the right choice? Name and Davis Big Ten player of the year? Yeah, I think they made the right choice. Yeah, yeah, Johnny Davis deserved him win Big Ten player of the year.

But the Keegan Murray is just, I don't know. He's, he kind of can do everything Johnny Davis can do, except he's two or three inches taller and more versatile in that regard. Like I, I don't know. So it kind of just comes down to that for me. Number six, a question, this is just for Titus. How high does Hunter Dickinson from Michigan get your office? Oh, shut up, KSD.

Get this man out of my face. Get this man. I'll say this about, this is the one forum where I'll be nice to Hunter Dickinson because it kills me to do it. And every time I do it, I need to take like a month off to recharge my batteries here. But I'll do it for you, KOC. I'll use this take here. I am very impressed with Hunter Dickinson,

I'm sorry left I am genuine like he did expand his game he he was last year just like a big like frankly he was just like a big oaf that set tricks and dunked and like somehow got all-American he was he was an ogre a mythical he was yeah he was an ogre there ago

good job he was like he's somehow got like he's playing alongside Franz Wagner and Isaiah Livers and and and Sean D Brown and like this dude just like set screens and roll to the basket and dunk it and everyone was like is this guy an all-American and I hated him. I hate him for that reason.

I hated his stupid face. I hated how cocky was. He was like the fifth best player on Michigan, and he acted like he was the reason they were in the lead eight. I will give him credit that the reason Michigan is still in this tournament, and the reason I wouldn't be surprised if they do beat Bill. No, they could go to the final four, whatever, is that Hunter Dickinson has expanded his game.

He's more versatile. He hit two threes out of the gate against Tennessee, and I think it rattled them. They were like, we didn't actually believe that he could do this. He hit a bunch of tough shots. That to me was his magnum opus of his NBA, the game against Tennessee. I mean, like, he was, he played like an NBA player in that game, and I will give him credit for that. But also, please, please don't, I don't want to, like, I already watched less NBA than I ever have in my life, KOC, and I hate that about myself.

But if, if Hunter Dickinson is, like, popping up on my television when I turn on NBA games, I'm going to be sick. I'm going to be sick. You better hope he's like Garza, you know, going to the Detroit. It comes off the bench a little bit here and there, but not a star. But not a star like he was in college. I don't think he's as good as guards. I really don't. No, I don't either.

I don't think so. I mean, we'll see if he stays another year. We'll see. Yeah, let's hope he stays another year. Number seven, Johnny Zhu Zhang was kind of the man for UCLA last year and got a lot of draft attention. His stock seems like it's fallen. You know, Peyton Watson was a potential lottery pick.

Now he's not even mentioned in the first round. So from an NBA perspective, when you talk about UCLA, you might think this team would stink without the key, you know, top lottery picks and all that, but they don't. They're a four seed facing your eight seed, North Carolina, Tar Hills, Tate. That's games on Friday. Tate, you went to UNC. What makes UCLA such a tough opponent? I mean, UCLA is great because they have all the experience against the same team that did last year. I think they have the best point card in the tournament. I mean, you could argue Gillespie or Nimhard, but I think Tiger Campbell is that guy and has been so far. He's really been the difference. He's the reason that they won the Akron game. So

UCLA, they have the pedigree. I expect them to win this game because they've been here before. But when I look at their group, I mean, you mentioned those two guys. I mean, Peyton Watson, there's no way he's a lottery guy. I mean, he has a lot to develop in his game. He committed, you know, to UCLA on Tyson Tate, so we love Peyton Watson. We did. He literally did. That is our guy.

He's our guy. So he literally, we are pulling for him and know that he will be a star next year, but it's not this year. So I get why he falls out. The Johnny Juzane thing, I just feel like. you know, the spark, the run that he was on, that was like a magical moment in time. And that's not who Johnny is day to day. So a lot of people are like, why isn't Johnny doing Johnny things? And it's, you know, that's a once in, you know, a lifetime type run. But I think he's a really solid player. I would take Johnny late first round, second round. I think he's still an NBA guy.

We worried about his separation last year and I think that's still the problem. But UCLA is a really tough team despite all the draft stuff. It's not like these guys are different. They just were overrated a little bit by the NBA. No, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, think the the draft stock of Watson and Zhu Zeng falling is indicative of it's actually like a good thing for UCLA because I think Hami Hockes like elevating his game this year and he's he's become their best player. So I like part of the reason Juzang hasn't been as good is because he's not it's not because he's falling off. It's because Hamey Hockes has turned into like a great, great, great college basketball player. Shades of Jimmy Butler, AOC.O.C.

Yeah. Like Peyton Watson just doesn't have. There's not enough minutes for him. like UCLA is too deep and they they're too experienced so like I I'm not out on Peyton Watson he's going to come back next year and he's probably going to kill it and Drew Zang is the exact same player he was last year I mean like we talked about like his separation like that is the big knock on Johnny was he hit a ton of tough shots in last year's tournament but then you also realize that every shot he took was tough because he couldn't create any separation um so I I don't know the man has a knack for scoring his mid-range game is insane he's definitely a throwback players in that regard you know like the the one

knockdown shot that you know is going in from Johnny Juzing is a 14 foot pull-up. And I don't know how much value that has at the next level, but the mid-rage is back, Titus. But the guy puts the ball in the hole. I love Johnny Ju-Zing. I don't think there was no world, and there was no world where Johnny Juzen

coming back to UCLA was going to improve his draft doc, if we're being completely honest, because no one, we knew who he was already. So, like, I don't think he came back necessarily to improve the draft stock. I think he came back because he went on an insane final four run and got to live in Los Angeles. Angeles for another year and be big put on campus at UCLA. Pretty good. I think that's the reason to come back.

Pretty good. I mean, it's a good reason. And I think, yeah, so you're describing UCLA, their deep team. A lot of different guys who can beat you. With North Carolina, we saw that scare against Baylor, Brady Manick gets ejected. It all falls apart. Tate's losing his marbles. Can't even speak. Can't even breathe. Is there any chance for North Carolina against UCLA, Tate? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, North Carolina has a ton of talent. Amando Beacott. If he gets a double-double in this game, he'll end the season with most double-doubles in the country. I really love what RJ Davis is doing. RJ Davis had 12 assists in the first game, had 30 points, played 45 minutes against Baylor, was the heartbeat of the team. Caleb Love can be both the

most infuriating player you've ever watched and also the most amazing player you've ever watched. He is the definition of bipolar basketball. You don't know what you're going to get, but sometimes when it hits, it hits right, and it's amazing. Brady Manick, as I said before, averaging 27 points per game. The starters, the iron five of North Carolina, you're going to be hard pressed to find a better five. But I think the iron five of UCLA is probably one of the few iron five that's more ironed than North Carolina's five,

which is why I would take UCLA in this game. And I think North Carolina is going to grow up in this game. I love that the NBA doesn't like any of these guys. I think they're all going to come back other than Brady. And they're going to get hopefully some respect next year. But yeah, I mean, they have a fighter's chance. They have a puncher's chance. but I think UCLA is maybe just the more iron better version of UNC right now.

We talked a little bit earlier. Last thing here about you guys doing a game, the St. Francis, St. Francis, St. Francis and Brooklyn, right? St. John's for St. Francis. There's a lot of saints. I mean, Jesus Christ. There's a lot.

I knew that poll, that quote of K.S. He said, there's a lot of saints, Jesus Christ. I went to Catholic school and then I learned a thing. You guys, I was listening to some of the clips again recently, like the best of that's on YouTube and I went into synergy in, like, click through. You guys were good. Tate, have you done play-by-play before, like in college? Yeah, I did it in college.

We've done the 3X3U before. You know, we do that every year. We're going to do that again in New Orleans for the Final Four. I mean, we actually laugh at how much people were, like, thought that we would just absolutely be idiots. So, I mean, I agree with that, be fair. I just synthesized I have no experience I didn't go to school for like

Tate's the Big J on the show So he didn't surprise me That he was killing it with the play by play I just kind of synthesized like 30 years of watching College basketball commentary And all the tropes I tried to bring out

I tried to say it's cold outside But the action's heating up And we don't need a three here When a team's down three with five seconds left For whatever reason we got to point out to the 3 here KOCC the secret is we were supposed to be calling a blowout

so they're like you guys have so much 27 and a half points for it Yeah that's the funny part We went into it like not even We didn't really prep that much Because we're like this game's gonna be a blowout Who cares And then we look up and it's like

Did it go to overtime? I don't remember it almost did It almost did And we were laughing so hard Because we were like man We literally didn't know a guy on St. Francis Not a single player going into that game.

We didn't know a single-point. When we sat down in the chairs to start calling it, we didn't know a single-person thing. I mean, think about that. We didn't know their coach's name. They had to tell us to the coach was before the test. Do you guys want to do it again? Oh, yeah.

Of course. We just don't want to do it under those circumstances. Where you don't know anybody. Well, no, it took two hours to get there, KOC. We were in Manhattan. We had to get a Jamaica Queen. Yeah, we want, we don't, like, if you told us we could call one of these elite eight games, I don't think we want to do it.

We would even want to do that. Our level is that, like, a game that no one would, no one's probably watching. That's a great environment. Can you get to a level where it is the Sweet 16 game? It's a great question. Stick around. That's the climb. Stay tuned.

Yeah, buy Titus and Tideson stock now and maybe someday you'll look up and we'll be calling the Iowa State Miami game on TBS. Or, we're like the Hornets Pacers. Oh, there you go. There you go. That's the move. We should do an alternative broadcasts of the Hornets Pacers. Send us up to the NBA.

Yeah, I mean, let's do it. Let's do it. All we have to say is we're NBA Twitter, right? KOC and they bump us out. Just NBA Twitter. We're NBA Twitter now. Yeah. Oh, man.

Well, KOC, you got to come on our show now. Absolutely. We got to do it. This was fun, guys. I miss working with you all, but I'm glad we became friends. Yeah, of course. Yeah. You guys are awesome.

It doesn't matter what team you play for. We friendship is forever. We are KOC fans forever. And that's all that matters. Let's do dinner soon, too. I like that too. That's always a good sign when people listen to a podcast to know that we're actually friends is we make the dinner plans on the podcast.

You know what I think listeners love that. They're like, they walk away. They're like, oh, they really do like each other. It's also like a contract. It's a social contract, too, because it's on the air. You're like, you can't get out of it. It's recorded. When's the last time I saw

to each of you? I forget. I mean, dinner and Westwood. Jim's birthday, right? It wasn't it Jim's birthday? Wasn't it?

Wasn't it? Jim's birthday? It was the last time I saw you, Tate. Yeah. Titus. We got tacos. Yeah.

Yeah. We got tacos. Yeah. That's great. Let's do it again soon. Maybe whenever your schedule clears up after the tournament or even earlier in the week next week.

I'm down. We'll figure out. We'll find a spot in LA. Love it. Deal. Thank you guys for coming on. I appreciate it. appreciate it.

See you, see you. And that was a fun conversation with Tyson. I just always love talking with those dudes. And now I'm even more fired up for March Madness

as week. And we might actually get Duke and Gonzaga again. The NBA draft dude and me is hoping for that. Plus, it would be fun

for college basketball fans to watch those two teams go at it. But yeah, that was a great conversation. We didn't talk NBA today. Chris Vernon and I covered a lot on Tuesday's

episode of the mismatch if you haven't listened to that yet. And on Friday, I'm sure we'll catch up on some of the stuff that happened tonight. It will probably not be the fact that Moamba hit a go-ahead three-pointer in a magic win over the Warriors.

I know Steph's not playing, but I had to mention Mo'bomba hit a go-ah-ahead three-pointer and the magic beat the Warriors. I'm sorry about your lottery odds, Orlando, but that's good for Moabamba. But there are two things we will talk about on Friday, I'm sure. One of them, Zion Williamson, out of nowhere, a day after it's reported that he won't be back this season, post a video on his Instagram. dunking between his legs off a pass from the backboard. We are going to be talking about that or what this means,

and I'm sure maybe by Friday we might actually get some news. And then also, after the Clippers lost to the Nuggets, 127 and 115, a big night for Yokic, big night for Bones Highland. After that game, Terrence Man, who had 24 points for the Clippers off the bench, was asked about the state of the team. The Clippers have lost four games in a row.

They're starting to slide. and he says we've got guys coming back. We've got guys coming back. What does that tell you? It's another sign that Kauai Leonard and Paul George could be returning this season. And that is one of the big, big storylines to think about as we enter the final stretch of this season,

which I am loving. I'm so fired up for this playoff race. I think the postseason is going to be incredible. We got March Madness right now. It's a good time. This is the best time to be a basketball fan. And I hope you're having as much fun as I am. Have a good one.

Everybody talk to you, Friday. Chris Vernon on the mismatch.