The Mismatch - Another Rendition of That’s True, That Might Be True, or That’s Ridiculous

Episode Date: October 25, 2022

Verno and KOC go through a list of the hottest NBA topics in ‘That’s True, That Might Be True, or That’s Ridiculous!’ They discuss whether the Nets are a potential play-in team, the Blazers' hot start, and whether there’s growing concerns with the Timberwolves (01:34). Also, the guys debate whether Kyle Lowry is toast after his poor start to the season, whether the Lakers will ever figure it out, and whether Doc will still be in Philly by the time Christmas rolls around (25:42). They finish up the conversation by discussing the resurgence of Lauri Markkanen and the Jazz before looking at the Spurs and Ja Morant’s MVP chances (39:05). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bill finally gave The Ringer's Philly crew a podcast. I'm Ben Solac. And I'm Shield Capadia. That's right. Just a couple of Philly guys with a new space to fire off some Eagles takes, get caught up in the Sixers, Chaos, and more. We'll be coming to you twice a week on Sundays and Thursdays plus bonus episodes whenever we get Breaking News or Philly Drama.

Join the Fun and follow the Ringers'Phillies special now on Spotify. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Farnan and join as he does every Tuesday from The Ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'O. Concer. Kevin O'Chammer. Kevin O'C., Kevin O'Cliber, Kevin O' Conflict. Kevin O Cannabis, Kevin O Courtside, Kevin. Oh, Bruno!

How are you doing on this Tuesday, Chris, after your Memphis Grizzlies defeated the Brooklyn Nets last night? I did go to a basketball game last night. We will talk about that. And we now have the sample size is growing. It's still very small for all of these teams. Teamy tiny. But certainly a good time to overreact still.

And we are bringing back. That is true. That might be true. or that is ridiculous. Yeah. Yeah. This is one of my favorite segments you've ever created for us.

It's the show everybody loves. That's true. That might be true. That's ridiculous. So I'm going to give a statement and then you decide, Mr. O'Connor. Let's get right to it.

Brooklyn is a play-in team. That might be true. That might be true. It all depends on the guy who filed out again last night, Ben Simmons. I mean, Kevin Durant,

Kyrie Irving, those guys can still wreck. Ben Simmons, he was a 16-8-8-8 guy, all-defense. One of the best defensive players on the planet, and now he's six points, six assists, seven rebounds through his first three games at the Brooklyn Nets. It looks like nothing that he was before on the defensive end of the floor. He's even more tibbit on offense, not even sniffing the paint. He's disrupted their offense in the half-court when they've run, lineups out there with Nick Claxton or

Darron Sharp, two non-floor spaces. Spacers have disturbed the ability for Durant and Irving to penetrate the paint. They look like a better team without Ben Simmons on the floor. And given what, you know, they gave up and hardened to get Simmons and all the time that it took to get him back,

you're going to give Simmons the opportunity to get back in a rhythm. But if he does not get back to the player that he was with the Philadelphia 786ers, or for whatever reason, it doesn't, Does it mesh as well with Kyrie and Kiti as it did with Embed? Yes, Chris, the Nets could be a playing team.

So they were a team that if you were going to bet it in Vegas at the beginning of the year, everybody knew that the gulf between their possible ceiling and their possible floor might have been the greatest in the lead. But if you're going to go bet it, there were only two teams that had higher wind totals in the Eastern Conference. And that's Milwaukee and Boston. And they were right there with Philly. The number is, I think, I believe it was like 50 and a half, something like that. Watching them last night, the first thing stands out to me is, of course, Simmons, he is a long ways off.

A long ways on. He's not even close. No. I mean, he has almost. I believe he has almost as many fouls this year as he does points. I think it's 17. 14. 14 foul, 17 points.

Yeah. Incredible. And they desperately need. need him to be a great defender because that team has absolutely no chance of playing good defense. It just doesn't have the personnel. You know, even when they bring up their bench, it's like Yuta Wada Navi, it's Patty Mills, it's Joe Harris, it's Dayron Sharp.

Dayron Sharp is supposed to be like one of your big guys. Stephen Adams drove past him. Drove past him and dunked. Brandon Clark just jumped over him and done. dunked on his head. They have absolutely no rim protection. Claxton does not provide the requisite rim protection. And they don't have guards that can stay in front of everybody.

Like, I talked about how I had a level of discontent with watching Nash as a coach, simply because watching these teams all of the time, I can see how they interact with each other. But more importantly, you see these teams and what their game plan is going in. in. Now, and I'll juxtaposed it. Over the weekend, the Grizzlies went. They're on a second half of a back-to-back three and four days, all the reasons why you might drop a game schedule-wise. But that would, it's not fair to just draw that for why they got destroyed by Dallas. Dallas has their number, and every time I watch them play Dallas, it's like Dallas makes them play left-handed. So they say in football, right? You want to make somebody do what they don't want to do.

and I watched Brooklyn play Pelicans at the beginning of the season. I didn't see the Toronto game, which is their one win. Then I watched it play Memphis last night, and I'm watching the game going, so what exactly was the goal here? Like, what was your scout in terms of here's what we want to take away? Like, you want to take away the three-point line? So now all of a sudden they got to, if they score 120 in the paint, then so be it. Do you want to take away the paint?

And so now they got it knocked out a bunch of jump. shots, they took away literally nothing, nothing. They can't take away anything at any level. And they, you know, they don't have the defensive personnel on the team. They don't have rim protection. And Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving scored 74 points on 71% true shooting percentage. Absurd night. And they lost.

They lost. I mean, I don't know what more you can ask of those guys who are absolutely brilliant offensively. And you can talk about like, well, what about when they get T.J. Wormack? It's not like he's Dennis Rodman. What about when they get Seth Curry back? It's not like he's Gary Payton. But they don't have anybody. Yeah.

They don't have anybody to guard you. Their defense is so bad. I think they have bad personnel for defense. and I think they have bad scheme for defense. And so I see no way that they're going to be able to guard people. They can do the Nash thing and just try to outscore people, and that'll work for an amount of games. But, man, I think it's going to be a tough go for them.

I really do. And one of the issues so far for them is it's not just the defense at all times, whether or not Ben Simmons is on the court or not. Their offense has just sputtered. time that Simmons has shared the floor with Kyrie and Durant. And granted, like we said, we're working with super small samples here. I went to cleaning the glass this morning to look up the numbers for line-up combinations. Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving with Ben Simmons and without Ben Simmons.

They've played 103 possessions with Ben Simmons, and they've been outscored by 23 points per 100 possessions. And the 51 possessions, Katie and Kyrie have been on the floor without Simmons. They're outscoring teams by 10 points per 100 possessions, a difference of 33. So, again, we're working with tiny samples, but the early return so far is that you have a defense that can't defend no matter who's on the floor,

and then you have an offense that's sputtering when it's running through Ben Simmons rather than through Kyrie, Katie, or even Patty Mills, for that matter, since he's been the guy bringing the ball up the floor more frequently when Simmons isn't out there. It's just, it's a real issue here. with personnel, with Simmons, not being what he once was yet, if ever.

And then the Steve Nash coaching, the schemes, the game planning. It's a lot of issues here that makes you me wonder, you know, did Kevin Durant see this coming when he made his trade demand during the summer? Well, like, can you just see, and this is the big difference from the last time that we saw Ben Simmons playing? For his fault, he could still be a devastating player because he does. so many other things besides score the ball. But they don't play, they play my turn, your turn.

It was like, all right, now somebody throws it to Kyrie Irving. And Kyrie Irving's breaking somebody down and hitting a crazy shot. And then Kevin Durant does it the next time. You've never seen four and five past possessions. And, you know, the game starts off. Ben Simmons brings the ball down the court. Santiago, who is assigned to guard Ben Simmons. He wasn't even guarding him.

He's standing. He's standing between the free throw line and the block. Oh, my goodness. You know, with all those players that are the explosive players that can get to the basket, but you would rather them shoot, and whether this goes, and this is even the great ones,

like LeBron for an amount of time, where people would just back off of them, or Westbrook or Wall, or John Morant before this year, and he started banging threes, on and on and on. You can go through all kinds of players where it was like, all right, if I'm going to pick my poison, I would much rather them just pull up for a shot.

That's a bailout for me defensively. But you would give them that space. And even with Ben Simmons, the way he became very good and became an all-NBA performer, was he would use that space as a runway to get downhill. And now I'm either going to the basket and I'm 6-11 and I can go faster forwards than you can go backwards. or I'm kicking it out. And now the ball's in motion, swing, swing, open three. He was always in the league lead of setting up three-pointers.

He was great at that. But he doesn't even go to the basket anymore. So if you're not going to penetrate, like you can't set up the kickout. It's just like he stands around, he sets a screen for somebody, and then he goes down to the dunker spot. It's like I don't even, so look, he looks at, he looks at, It's like a shell of himself. I also think they're using him poorly.

They should be running more high pick and roll with Kyrie Irving with Simmons as a screener. They did it with K.D. in their first game and Simmons got this great short roll opportunity, pass, kick out to the corner three. That's what they got to do more of. But they're not running enough pick and roll. It's too much dribble handoff action. It's ugly at this point. And how much of that is on Nash, how much of that is on Simmons with his,

his unwillingness and on ball screens. We don't know all the answers yet. This team is still figuring it out. But, Chris, you're right. It's partially how they're using him and partially just how he's performing as an individual. Yeah, and I know some people like Claxton, but I mean, you're too bigs.

Cannot be Claxton and Dayron Sharp. Yeah. Which speaks to the front office not signing a true center. I'm like, no wonder your ass had DeAndre Jordan five years too long. Like, how? You got nobody? That's the only other size you have on the whole team?

That's wild to me. Wild. And so I just don't see how they're going to defend. Even if they get the offensive thing figured out, I don't see how they're going to defend people with the personnel that they have and the absence of any rim protection. You know, you got to have one or the other.

and so either be able to stop people from driving to the basket or when they do drive to the basket, I'm filtering into something that can stop them there. But if you have no line of resistance on the top or bottom, yish. And I don't think that's an overreaction. That personnel's not changing as far as I know. And there's no hero on the horizon that's some kind of lockdown defender. I mean, even when you had like some size and you had Bruce Bryant, and you had some, you know,

some guys that'll get out there and fight and scratch and claw and defend. I mean, Grizzly's backcourt had 76 points. Seventy six points last night. Somehow outdid Durant Irving. It was wild to watch.

Next one. Kevin Portland is a good team that we should have been higher on. That might be. True. Oh, that's absolutely true. Come on. Come on. They're clearly better. Yeah, they're clearly better. Yes. Good, but like, I guess, I guess my question is good team, do you mean top 60 in the West or top 10 in the West? I mean, we weren't talking about them as a top 16. We were not, no. In the West. We were talking about them in the playing conversation. And towards the bottom of it, maybe. Yes. Better than expected. Yes. And, But we were talking a lot of if it went the wrong way.

And also, we were talking about if Damien Lillard doesn't look like Damian Lillard to be. Oh my God. He sure is hell. He sure looks like Damian Liller. Yo. He sure does. He looks like the best player in the league. Yeah.

And Anthony Simons, the game he had last night against Denver. I mean, scoring from everywhere on the court, but also some of the passes he made. Anthony Simon's made some really slick passes off the dribble, one to a corner three-point shooter, just so smooth off the dribble after attacking the basque. And then another one, if I remember correctly, I think it was in a pick and roll where, you know, through a tight window,

passed the ball to a cutter at the rim. I mean, that dude was always a bucket. I mean, he's got, he's become a better bucket. He's become a better playmaker. and the dynamic between him and Damien Lillard is very reminiscent of Dame and CJ except better because Simons is younger, more flashy.

He can shoot more frequently from three at a younger age and the passing is there too. So, I mean, this Blazers team with Jeremy Grant and they don't even have Gary Peyton back yet. They got Josh Hart. So, I mean, they got some guys that can defend. Yeah. I mean, I think some of the things I said about

the Billups scheme. during preseason were true. But maybe they're just working things out at the time because this team looks effing awesome right now. They look good so far for sure. They've had some big performances. And just I know it was an utter collapse for the Lakers over the weekend. But I was watching that game.

And it showed a lot of heart that Blazers team. They showed a lot of heart down the stretch. Like you still got to make the plays to have that kind of. of a run at the end of the game. And I was impressed by it. It still got Damien Lillard. And if that's the Damian Lillard you get, that's one of the top five to ten players in the league when he's had his apex.

And certainly, if he's healthy over the course of the season, like the instant reviews have been very good and certainly much better than I think we expected them to be. You know, was it more likely that they were an average? to below average team. And maybe we'll see. Maybe this will all look foolhardy in a couple of weeks. Maybe.

Well, I mean, we'll see. I mean, ultimately, though, the key, like when we did our semi-bold predictions, and I said Blazers trade dame or, you know, whatever, whatever form that takes he wants out or whether the Blazers trade them, I don't think that's going to happen. Well, let's put it that way. That's not going to happen. The Blazers are at least going to be competitive enough that they're going to be a team that looks to add, not subtracted. That's what I would say at this point, whether or not they end up a good top six seed or whether they're still in the plan.

That remains to be seen. But at the least, this team is good enough where they're going to be looking to make additions come trade deadline time. Minnesota has bigger problems than just the bleak start. True. Yeah, I mean, I think just true. Yes. The cat, Gobert fit is not great so far. Who could have seen that comment?

I mean, yeah, but it's not due to Rudy necessarily. Cat is underperforming. DeLo still is he's fine. Anthony Edwards has been up and down. I didn't love the comment Carl Anthony Towns made about Anthony Edwards after their last loss. Did you see that, Chris? I did.

Yeah, everybody laughs when he talks about eating fast food. Yeah, but he doesn't like it. Yeah. It's just a strange thing to say in front of the media. Anthony Edwards last week also said, I'm better in space. Yep, he did. I think he's a Chris Vernon show fan.

He did say that. He did say he's better with space. And when they're running up and down the court. I mean, to me, he is that, they've tried to speed up this timeline. He's the best player on the team. And they've tried to speed up the timeline, maturity-wise, everything else with him,

and to win now. And you never know what I think of the new GM, They got the ownership thing going on and everything else. But, man, there's some bad vibes coming out of their last night because, you know, my guy, John Krasinski, I read him when he writes about the T-Wool's for the athletic. Always great. And he was kind of going through it like that this isn't just about the fit and, you know, adapting to this and figuring this out.

It's the look at them and the effort that they're putting out. Look at the way they're getting bad. Waxed. I mean, Utah just stormed on them. And San Antonio just stormed on them. And, you know, look, they traded away. They traded away some dogs. They traded away Vanderbilt. They traded away. People always laugh at me when I tell you that there are guys that can have profound impact on a franchise simply because they don't, they don't allow the other guys to, Half step. They don't allow the other guys to not put in the work. They don't allow the other guys to get down and mope and do all that kind of stuff. And you had some guys on that team that are diving the stands for loose balls guys that can have impact. You know, you got motors like Beverly, motors like Vanderbilt.

They end up, you know, the rising tide lists all boats. And I don't know who they're supposed to listen to. I don't know who the leader is there. That's what it feels like to me. They're getting their ass kick. They're getting runoff. They go into a huddle. There's Finch, of course.

But it has to be a player. Like who's the voice. And the best player is Edwards. He's the guy. But he's not ready to be that right now. He's not ready to be face of franchise, leader of team, you know, follow me. And

town. Eat too much Popeye. Yeah, right. And evidently, and then you got Towns who's doing this mealy mount

passive aggressive. You know, maybe I could, maybe I could talk to him about taking care of his body better because they say he's, they say, they say,

passive aggressive. Well, they say Edward sucks and backs to back, in back to back. Yeah. That's the thing. I mean,

so he can't play two games in a row. And, and also that there is a, you know, there's a scout on him, now. And then he becomes disenfranchised. He's over there standing in the corner, kind of moping. I don't know, man. You got Russell in a contract here. Chris, I want to go back to that statement you made about the wolves not having space. But Anthony Edwards preferring to have more space on the floor

because the pick and roll combinations, again, small sample size, the numbers early are really interesting here. D. Lowe, when he's paired with Gobert, the wolves are shooting 52%. When Edwards is paired with Gobert and the pick and roll, they're shooting only 28%. But those numbers are inverted the other way around. DeLo with Cat has been a horrible combination shooting only 28%. Edwards with Cat has been good shooting 50%. That speaks to the aunt comment saying he's better with space, but it's no surprise that Deelow has been better with a rim runner or vertical threat like Gobert.

So I wonder if at some point this offense is able to regulate and figure it out. Does Anthony Edwards get better at playing with a roller like Gobert or is this always going to be an issue whereas he needs to be paired with Cat? It's just strange the dynamic that combination has because in theory, Gobert should be a good thing for Anthony Edwards, but thus far it just hasn't been. And I wonder if at some point that changes or if this is going to be a fundamental issue. And like we said, in semi-bold predictions, will there come a point this year where we're talking about do the wolves need to move off of one of the star players, including potentially Carl Anthony Towns, who will be making $62 million when he is

32 years old at the end of his contract. But that's why I like the fit with the Towns thing, and I thought that it was so devastating. Yeah, but you talk about dogs, Chris. Kat's not a dog. No, no, no, no, no. We're talking about trying to make your accentuate who your best

player is. What's the best way to accentuate your best player? And you went and acquired a center that even if he goes out and sets the screen, nobody has to go out there. Nobody has to go out there. Just think about this in simple term. You set the screen for me.

I turn the corner. I'm facing two guys. There's the guy chasing behind me that's coming around the screen and your guy because what do that? Nobody has to go out. What are you going to do? Throw it back out to him and he's going to hit a shot.

Yeah, because he's not, he's a roller, man. With towns, the answer is yes. But, I mean, I know, and you've got this devastating guy in Edwards. So can't have just two guys roll into the basket. Russell's not going to finish a ton at the rim. Edwards is. Edwards can finish on anybody. He is a bull in a China shot.

Yeah, but I think for the wolves, the difficulty here is Kat might provide on offense what you're talking about, but does he provide it on defense? I mean, that balance, I'm not out on this team at all. any means I'm not out on the wolves. I still think the dynamic could work. There's risks. There's things that could cause them to fail. A lot of reasons can cause

them to fail, including Rudy Gaubert, who you know I love, but his weaknesses are real on offense. But I do want to give Chris Finch time who for years, he was great with Yokic in Denver. He was creative and innovative with 80 and Boogie in New Orleans.

And now with Gobert in towns, it is going to be on him as the head coach and that entire staff to get it right, but also how does Edwards evolve? How does he develop playing with a new vertical threat and Gobert? That's what's going to be interesting to track over the duration of the season. The NBA season is underway and it's the perfect time to download Fandul, America's number one sportsbook because right now new customers get a no sweat first bet up to $1,000. And plus, Fandle is the only sportsbook that's giving all customers three months of NBA

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the number one team in the Eastern Conference record-wise last year, is Miami Heat. Part of those struggles, maybe a lot, some people's idea, is because of Kyle Lowry, who started the season downright miserably. Kyle Lowry is toast. What do you think?

Sure seems like it. Might be true, might be true. I'd say true, considering it's now been basically the entire 2022 calendar year. The way he ended last season with Miami is very much the way he's performing right now,

and that is... I don't like watching it. I've always loved Kyle Lowry. Me too, man. Even before the Toronto days, when he was that young up-and-comer with the Rockets, he was fun to watch then. It sucks.

Is it just over? Is it over? I know. It's too bad. And if it is, let's say that this is true. What does that mean for the heat and what they can become this season?

Do they need to make a move? Are they a Rust team? Like, after a buyout? I mean, like, what's the plan from Miami if Lowry is indeed toast. Yeah, that's interesting. Do you, I mean, it's probably not, they're probably going to ride it out with him, right?

I don't know. If he's toast and you have Butler and Bam and all these guys with championship expectations, you've got to find another guard. So who would that be? I think it's got to be Russ. post buyout after the Lakers move him to Utah Meena, Charlotte, whoever it might be, after the buyout,

you're the team that brings in Russ and tries to make it work. Riley might not hate it. I don't know. You never know what Pat Riley. You really don't. And Westbrook would have a real chip on his shoulder more than he already does.

Oh, yeah. Can you imagine him getting bought out? Oof. The vengeance he would come back with. And they got a bunch of tough dudes anyway, always. Sometimes that's what it takes. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

Oh, well, that... It sucks, though, watching Lowry right now at this stage. It does. I hope he's... I hope it's not true. I hope that's ridiculous. I do. Next one.

The Lakers are not going to figure things out. I mean, this is complicated. How do they figure things out? Is it... I wrote about on the ringer, they need to trade Russ, whether that's, you know, when I say immediately in that article it means

it'd be hilarious if they got rid of Russ and still suck. Well, they might still suck because Russ isn't the only problem. Russ is not shooting well, but the rest of the team is shooting 22% from three. Nobody's hitting shots in that team. They have nobody with size on the wing who can defend multiple positions, which is the necessity to play championship basketball now.

They have a lot of issues besides Russell Westberg. Not to mention Anthony Davis, granted he has been great on defense this. year he's already dealing with the back injury and he is has a long injury history it's scary with him this is a team that's you know operating on thin ice here so

the lakers have a lot of issues even if they were to trade russ for some package of players whether it's like hayward and rosier from charlotte or whether it's you know clerks and beasley and rudy gay from Utah or whether it's miles turner and buddy healed from

Indiana that's not a a solve for all of their problems. It's something that could help and put them, put them, A.D. and LeBron in a better position to win a lot of games and make a little bit of a run in the playoffs. But this team is,

in all likelihood, beyond repair. Yeah, and you know what's crazy is I thought, I was like, when they made the Beverly deal, I was like, man, I really like this. Good to have a guy like that there. But the truth is, I was wrong about this because Beverly needs to be with a bunch of young guys or a bunch of losers.

because these guys, they don't listen to him at all. A bunch of losers. Chris, they haven't won a game yet. They are a bunch of losers right now. No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm saying, like, guys that, like, that he could come in. He's got a voice in that room as like, hey, I've been on a lot of, you know, teams that have been to the playoffs. I've been a part of winning.

I've helped teams get there. Here's what it requires, whatever. None of those guys that are on that lake are thing. Nobody listens to Patrick Beverly. Everybody's like, shut up. You know what I mean? Like everybody in Minnesota, there's a million articles written about this. Everybody listen to Papav.

Everybody. Like it inspired all those guys. And he was, because he's in there, he, you know, if you go in and after the game, there's some guy that's running three miles on the treadmill, even if he's not good, you're sitting there going, what? Look how hard he's working to be as good as he can possibly be. But I don't work that hard. Like nobody on the Lakers gives a shit.

They walk by and they see Patrick Beverly running on a treadmill. And they're like, who gets him? Whatever. What idiot. Go home. You know what I mean? They're all made men. They got MVP's and stuff. Right?

He needs to go to like a team with a bunch of young guys. Like he's like, he's like major pain or something. Go whip a bunch of fatties into shape. Oh, God. That's what he needs to go do somewhere. I think he's in the right spot. it's just everything else isn't right. No, he's not in the right spot.

Nobody listens to him. I see him trying to, like, talk to them and rally them together. They're all like, yeah, whatever. Yeah, but he's like the Delavadova type that LeBron has always liked to have on his team. That's what he is. It's just ever, they're missing the other pieces.

For us isn't good. They don't have enough wings. They don't have enough shooters. There's a lack of space, a lack of versatility on defense. I mean, granted, they have been great statistically defensively. That is largely a testament

to Anthony Davis and what he is on the floor right now. But if he, if this is any time or like in the Clippers game, isn't able to defend at the level he can because he's nagged by the back injury or whether it's something else,

they're going to fall apart. And the Pelicans are going to be smiling all the way to the draft lottery. Oh, their body language is so bad, too. Oh, the shot at the end of the game, 30 seconds left, 18 on the shot clock, when Russ jacked that big range jumper. And LeBron threw his arms up and he couldn't put him down.

Aide, like briefly put his arms up. There's a moment you could see on the Blazers bench, Greg Brown, he's like jumping up and down as Russ elevated to take the shot. Like he knew right away that this is good for us. And it was very good for them. Yeah, I don't hate the idea of going two for one there. It's the guy that shot it. Yeah, I mean, sure.

But as Kurt Goldsbury tweeted out, though, that was, Russell Westbrook is the only player that attempted a jump shot with under 30 seconds to go, with 15 seconds or more left in the shock clock with their team up by one possession in the last four years. I know it's a highly specific situation. I mean, come on. Ridiculous. But it speaks to the unusual nature. what happened there.

I just want them to get rid of him so that they can stop blaming him, right? I would never defend this version of Russell Westbrook. Yeah, but it's fair to blame him, Chris. That was not the game winner. You know, LeBron had a shot. I know, but I know, but it's fair to blame him for some of their issues.

He's not the sole problem. But that is the only clip you see everywhere. I could show, I mean, I could put together a super cut of Anthony Davis hit the side of the back And LeBron He can't shoot either Lebron shooting an air ball And like I mean

This happens throughout these games Like they all You know what I mean And yet it's The play you're gonna see is The reason they By the way The rest of the team

Besides Russ Is shooting 22% from 3rd Right And by the way Jeremy Grid As far as I know He wouldn't being guarded by Russ When he drove straight at their asses

And finished at the rim Both of them Both of them both of them and yet the clip you're going to see everywhere is a Russ Miss jumper they're still up one Jeremy Grant comes down and just bodies

both of them nobody but nobody cares about them you know what I'm saying that's why I'm saying get rid of rut he can't be your scapegoat anymore Vogel was a scapegoat last year this year it's going to be Russ like just get rid of him

the truth is it's Palinca which is why Lakers fans were so pissed off that he got the extension yeah and Jeannie he best said on Rich Eisen's show how she gave the extension to Polinka because wanted organizational stability after he hired Darvindham,

so I get that to an extent. But some of the moves that have been made by Palinca in recent years, including signing off on LeBron's preference to get Russ, has put them in this situation now where you mentioned earlier how Ben Simmons isn't even being defended. Well, neither is Russell Westbrook. Teams

aren't contesting his shots. They're leaving him wide open. They're clogging the lane. So even though he's not The lone issue, he is the most glaring issue on the team. And that needs to change for them to have any chance of salvaging this entire season. Next one. Doc Rivers won't make it to Christmas. That might be true.

That might be true. I would never go as far as saying that's true. This might end up being looking ridiculous because, you know what I mean? If I told you the Sixers won six games in a row and got it back on track, it wouldn't be the most shocking thing in the world. world. But it also wouldn't be shocking if they, you know, continue sputtering. I think Doc's going to get back on track,

right? I mean, I don't know. Look, it's all bad vibes to start the season for sure. And it was pretty clear. It was like, oh, well, now Joel Embed's kind of mopey, and it's the James Hardin show. And so then they do this massive course correction

where they throw the ball to M.B. 700,000 times the next game. And he has big total. but they still lose. It's like, can there be a happy medium here? Maybe we're both of y'all are happy with your plight

where it's not one or the other? To me, I think the most important stretch for the Sixers. So they have games coming up, first of all. Because Toronto, Chicago, Washington, New York, Phoenix. And then they have a stretch at home where it's

Atlanta, Utah, Milwaukee, Minnesota, It's a long homestand over nearly two weeks and we're like three or four national TV games. That to me is the stretch where if they're coming out of that and they're way below 500 or the team has some chemistry issues after that Brooklyn game near Thanksgiving, I think that's where you could see a change potentially made if things aren't going well. Or by that point, like you said, Chris, maybe they're thriving, maybe hard and and embedded in the league's number one pick and roll duo. they're smiling, they're happy, Embed is in great basketball shape, and the team looks good.

But there are definitely some alarming concerns from early in the season based off of Embeded as we talked about last week. PJ Tucker not looking quite the same on defense after he got the big contract, the bench not meshing anywhere as well as they might have expected internally.

So there's a lot of concern, but still a lot of time up to go. I'll tell you this, they all, from that organization, just need to be sending gift bags over to both the Eagles and the Phillies. Because there's so many good vibes with the other stuff going on. You're right. If that was going poorly, the Eagles stunk again.

And if the Phillies were already done. But instead, everybody's in love with that Phillies team. They're in the World Series. The Eagles have the best record in the NFC. And, you know, people are kind of paying attention, not really paying attention to the NBA. until a little bit later on. So the focus, the light is going to be nearly as bright.

And so, right, I think it might be ridiculous just because I think everybody in Philadelphia is caring. They got two awesome things to care about right now. Who gives a shit what's going on with the Sixers in the first 20 games in the season? You know, I mean, Darryl Morey does. Of course. You know, Chris Ryan. Chris Ryan does too. But Chris Ryan probably way more into the Eagles and the Phillies right now than he is.

The Sixers. And the World Series is the game one, game one is later, what, Friday, Thursday, something like that? Yeah, later this week. So they have some time. Yeah, they've got a little while. Both those teams in that city outside of the Sixers have been great. Kevin, the Lori Marketing thing is real.

Do we both owe Lori Marketing an apology? Yeah, I apologize for giving the Bulls an F-plus for drafting him on draft. night. It took a long time to get here, but. And I hated him after Summer League, and then he popped off for that rat team he played for with Chicago, and every day they were tweeting me, Lori Morganan, you were wrong, you were wrong. And then he went back to being lame again. And now he's awesome. He's had some awesome moments for sure. Yeah. He was cooking everybody on the Pelicans the other night.

He looks so good off a dribble, and he's not even shooting the ball from three at the level that he can. He's only 24% from three right now, still putting up big numbers because of what he's doing, attacking the basket, the diversity of the role that Will Hardy, the new Jazz head coach, has him in, where he's running some picking role as the ball handler.

He's screening and rolling and operating out of a short role, finishing at the rim, playmaking, bringing the ball up to court himself, attacking off a closeout. It lists offensive responsibilities. Marketing is doing all of them for

the Jazz right now. And yet he's still not shooting the ball at the level from three that he can and has in the past. So I think for Utah, with the role they have him in, I'm buying, I'd say that's true. And, you know, good for them. But Danny Aange landed a guy that didn't even have the, he wasn't even the key piece in the return for Donovan Mitchell. But he's looking like it. And let me apologize to the jazz. They are infinitely more. watchable than what I would have expected. Young Bull. I mean, I watched the end of that Pelicans game when they beat the Pelicans the other day.

Jordan Clarkson going off. Kelly Olinick with the game winner. It's just a bunch of like grinder gang guys. Walker Kessler and Jared Vanderbilt Grinders interior players. Yeah. Yeah. And obviously my old buddy Mike Conley's there. and like I didn't ain't watching them.

I really didn't. I wonder at one point though, just do the Utah Jazz say this is a little too much winning? Too much. We got we got to make a move with Jordan Clarkson and Malik Beasley, Mike Conley, some of these guys that are contributing, Rudy Gay contributing to their victories right now,

because at some point, man, if Utah keeps winning, granted they just lost Monday night to the Rockets. But if they keep winning, man, I wonder if there comes a point where they get a pole to plug and play more of these young guys and trade them. Of course it will, but this is the best possible scenario. Start the season, playing hard, putting up numbers,

looking like guys that can contribute, and now all of a sudden you've got guys of real value. Somebody sees Lori Marketing and they're like, well, shit, we like to add them to our team. Somebody sees Colin Sexton and they're like, man, or they see Jordan Clarkson or they see like all these guys. Malik Beasley on and on. Like you could get something for all those guys. You're right, Chris.

But the risk in waiting is Utah's most valuable asset out of all of their young players, their 14 future first round draft picks, their most valuable asset is their own pick in 2023. And with each day that goes by where value could theoretically be gained for some of those veterans with the potential, for a return from another team, you're losing value with your most valuable asset in the organization.

That's the risk for the jazz here. It's still just like a 14% chance now. It's not the same as it used to be. It's not. You're right, you're right, Chris. It's 14%, it's 2%. You really just need one to be the- You're right.

You're 100% right, but 14% is more than 9% with the 6th-bath odds. I get it, but you just- It is more. It is. But again, it's not worth... And when you already have 14 future first-round draft picks, like whether you get a top three protected

or whether you get an unprotected for Jordan Clarkson or whatever it might be, or if you get a potential late first instead of two seconds, that's a marginal difference too, just like you're saying with the draft odds, 14% to 9%. But there is hard quantifiable value in that pick, whereas there's theoretical value

and some of those future picks that you may or may not get for some of your valuable assets. So I think that is something worth considering when it comes to the timing of when these moves might end up happening for the jazz because their most valuable asset

is their own in 2023. I don't think you're going to have to worry about them losing a boatload of games. It's just the first four, five of the season so far, right? Will Hardy has those guys playing. I'll tell you that. They're clicking, man. Every guy is in a role that makes sense.

They're playing together. They're playing hard. I mean, like it's not just Lari Marketing and it looks good either. It's like we mentioned Kessler and Vanderbilt and passing. Like, they have a lot of talent that's performing at a high level right now. What I mentioned watching that Pelicans game,

and I saw Zion Williamson's out for their game tonight. Herb Jones is out for their game tonight. Ingram's got the concussion too. My goodness, man. I mean, within the first week, within the first week of the season. Dude, I was so looking forward to watching Zion move. know it. One of the things that I did find interesting is Zion went out of that

game after the spill. Ingram was out of that game and you saw them throw in a bunch of these like role guys. That's when they actually made their comeback. They were getting drilled by Utah and they made their comeback. They had like Alvarado in there. Trey Murphy was in there.

Herb was in there. Like they had guys and it was kind of like CJ and four role players. They were pretty much doing it because the other guys, the other guys were out. And Willie Green was screaming and yelling at it. That ended up being actually a highly entertaining basketball game,

which I was not expecting. I figured a fellow could have to murder them, right? But that Utah team, man, you don't want to see them on the schedule right now. They've been making fans leave the arena disappointed for sure thus far. They might lose some coming up. They got Houston again Wednesday. I mean, we'll see with that. Then they get Denver and then Memphis twice.

Speaking of teams that we did not expect to make other teams fans leave the arena disappointed, the San Antonio Spurs. The San Antonio Spurs have started and winning some games. The San Antonio Spurs have play in potential. It might be true. Oh, that's ridiculous. Come on, come on. Well, no, okay.

Chris, if we're talking about the 10, that 10 spot is where a team could win 32 games and get to 10. So that's when I say that might be true. That's where it might be true. It's for the 10 seat, okay? No way. No way. Not to eight, the 10.

And the reason why is because Yacke Pertil, once again, one of the better centers in basketball. Oh, God. Kelden Johnson. One of the better centers in basketball. basketball. I mean, one of the better. Like, better at the top 15.

Kelden Johnson and Devin Vassell and Tray Jones have all taken leaps so far early on in the season. I like all of them. You do. You like all of them. Those three players. I don't like Arnold. Pertil is the 538, you know, he's the new. Okay.

Whatever. Okay. Whatever with Fertil. Kelton Johnson, though, shooting the ball better than ever, building on what he, the progress he made last year, still getting to the rim, still playing great. defense lost 21 pounds. He looks like the best shape of his entire life on the court physically performance wise. Devin Passell looks awesome. He's looking like Chris Middleton out there, his mid-range pull-up, scoring from three off of movement actions, some pull-ups. And Trey Jones, now that they

traded the Jean-Tay Murray, Trey Jones, he's shooting the ball better than ever. His passing reads, as always, are high level. He's gritty on defense, even though he's small. So this is a team that with these guys, and then you have the upside plays, like a Jeremy Sohan starting, you know, he's not great yet, but the energy he brings, the rebounding, the coast to coast stuff, at the least,

the spurs are fun, at the least. And if these guys continue maintaining play, maybe, maybe Popovich gets them in in the 10-seat conversation. Maybe. I don't think that's outreed. I'm still hung up on

Yakop hurdle, one of the best centers in the I didn't say one of the best centers. Yes, you did. Yes, you did. No, the word I said was one of the better. One of the better centers. Hey, there's a YouTube video I was watching the other day. What is the wrong with saying?

He's one of the better centers. No, if he finishes at the high level level. Oh, I know, no. He's a great screener. He's a very good passer. He's a good positional defender. Yeah, great rim protector. That's what I read at 538.

There's this YouTube video. There's this YouTube video. The 538 projected him to get a supermax? Yeah. I was watching the other. day this YouTube video. And if anybody can type this in, it's,

just type this, John Morant career high. And it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's 52.

And, um, one portion of this movie that I was watching, this guy, Morant, testies, like,

rub on this guy's neck as he's cracking him. On the head, uh, with the dunk. It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. Unbelievable. And that was Yankee Pertil he dunked on there.

Yes, I know. Yeah, it's like a, yeah, the new Bill Russell. I thought that was Rudy Gobert. I thought that was Rudy Gobert. Rudy Gobert is actually a real rim deterrent. Thank you. I appreciate you saying. That's very, that's so nice to you to say that.

But get out of the way. Let Ann Cook. I didn't say Purtle is one of the best. Free Ann. I said he's one of the better. centers at all of basketball. Free ant. All right.

I think we've pretty well wrapped up most of the stuff that we've thought about so far on that's true. That might be true. That's ridiculous. Ending with the Spurs being a play of team too much. But it has been fun. How about a quick one for you, Chris?

John Morant's MVP. Oh, that's a good one. John Morant can be the youngest, I guess he'd be the youngest MVP since Rose. There's a big break. You know, there used to be guys that won it when they were young. Rose was 22. Janice was 24.

And there have been a group of guys at 24, but really, everybody that was like 23, that's all guys from like the 60s, West Unseld, Moses Malone, Bob McAdoo, Kareem. was 23 Chamberlain was 23 Russell Bob Pettett and then the first MVP's for Jordan LeBron and Janice

they were all 24 Yokic was 25 Durant was 25 Iverson and Duncan were both 25 too so it'd be the first one really I mean outside of Rose nobody's done it at 23 before

Morant's leading the league in scoring so far If he stays healthy, he's going to have a real chance. He's going to have a real chance. Because they've won game so far without, you know, they still haven't gotten Jerry Jackson back. They just got Dylan Brooks back. Zaire Williams, the rotation guy.

He didn't come back. There are other guys that perform, Contchar, Aldama, the guy so far. I mean, they've got to win a, You'd have to have the best record in the West or the second best record in the West to really be in that conversation. And so obviously

Luca's going to be right there. Yeah. I mean, it might be the three three international guys and then the American guys, I guess Tatum and Moran would be the ones. Maybe Dame if Portland continues being awesome. Dane at this point, yeah.

But yeah, you're right. And throw him in there too. So, and especially if they have a much better season than we any of us expected. But then you've got, obviously, the international guys with Mbid, Ante Cumpo and Yokic. Then probably Tatum and Morant. Yeah. And then Dane would be in there right now. Again, it's always fun to talk about MVP through four games of the season.

But, I mean, if you projected out, Gail that started real early. Well, I mean, Morant was second team all-N-BA last year. Oh, yeah, he was fantastic. 50-something games, and they had the second best record in the league. Like, he was in that mix for a while. Also, Steph, too. Can't forget, Steph.

You think he's got an MVP season left, though? Probably. Maybe. We're probably. We're probably not. I mean, we're probably, at the tail end You know

When you go out of your prime Other guys are at their prime Yeah He's average 33 right now 33 Yeah What's shy like 35 35?

35 Well no It's been a fun first week of the season I'm loving the first week It's been a good time Yes It's been great So far

Yeah And there have been a lot of fun games I've been surprised. Look, that game I went to last night, Grizzly's Nets, that's the first time in a regulation game that four players have had over 35 points. Wow. I didn't realize.

I mean, it was literally historic. Wow. Four players were over 35, and it was a regulation game. This is one of the most entertaining games I've ever seen in my life. Wow. I mean, you know, Durant and Kyrie were like at peak of powers offensively. And obviously, Morant and Bain went crazy. They had 78 each and those two had 37 each.

Crazy. That is tough to get 35. Yeah. Four guys that scored 35 in a game. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, it's been great. The beginning of the season's been really fun so far.

enjoyed watching these rookies and these teams for the first time. Thank you to our executive producer, Justin Lopez, as always. Kevin, I will talk to you on Friday. Looking forward to it. Have a good week, everybody.