The Mismatch - Are the 76ers a Genuine Finals Threat? Plus: The Celtics, Knicks, and Wizards Surge and Anthony Davis Returns.

Episode Date: April 23, 2021

Verno and KOC are back this Friday, talking about Anthony Davis returning to the basketball court against the Dallas Mavericks (0:25) and what the most important factors are to the Mavericks’ success in this final stretch of the season (2:30). Then they get into the 76ers losing to the Bucks Thursday night after a relatively quiet game from Joel Embiid with Ben Simmons out and how important getting that no. 1 seed in the East will be for postseason success with three juggernaut teams at the top (13:48). Finally, they talk about the three unexpected teams in the Eastern Conference that are currently surging: the Celtics (26:06), the Knicks (29:54), and the Wizards (43:10). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Football season is never over. The Ringer NFL show has got all your football needs covered from free agency to the draft and so much more. Check out the Ringer NFL show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me as he does every Friday from the Ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'Bomber. Kevin O'Bomberts, Kevin O'Kinder, Kevin O'Kinderland, Kevin O'Kinell.

Kevin O'Kinder. Kevin O'Climber. Kevin O'Kle! What's up? All right, so we got a lot of stuff to get to. We saw last night a couple of things that we will touch on, not the least of which was Anthony Davis making his return to the court for the Los Angeles Lakers. He played less than 20 minutes. Did not hit many shots last night.

The rest was certainly there. And it does seem like it could take a minute for him to get back to form. That being said, he made his return last night. And I think the story out of that is kind of the Lakers were able to hold the fort down while without LeBron James and without Anthony Davis. And LeBron will be coming back at some point, but at least they've gotten Davis back now in the lineup, despite the results of last night's game. You know, in the end, they're in the five spot right now. they are three and a half back from Denver, so there's some separation there,

but they stayed two and a half games up on Portland and on Dallas. So there was not the free fall in the standings that there certainly could have been without LeBron and AD. And so it was nice to see him back on the court, and I'd imagine that they'll get back to cooking sooner than later. Yeah, I mean, I looked at last night's game and felt it was just a big nothing for the Lakers except for another example of many, as you know, for weeks now of them being able to hold down the fort, as you said,

without LeBron James and without AD playing at full strength now. I mean, this was clearly like shaking off the rust. Right. It was quite apparent watching the game last night and obviously was on a minute's restriction too. My main takeaway from last night's game is on the Dallas side and some good things and one bad thing. the good things is Dwight Powell is having more moments looking like his old self. Had a few games the last couple weeks like that. And that's encouraging for them.

I love what JJ Redick is bringing. The off ball, you know, shooting ability to create his own shot without the ball in his hands. That's adding a new dimension to the Mavericks. And then the bad part, K.P. hurt his ankle. And like, we don't know the severity yet as of recording on Friday morning. But it's just another injury to worry about with him. And it's concerning because he's.

had some really good moments last night. Well, and there was even the moment where after KP, and then Luca was limping around for a minute, and it's like, good grief. Like, obviously, they can't lose one of them. And we know that any time a guy is limping around, even for a minute, it's like, jeez, you got a game every friggin' day, it feels like.

Oh, my God, right? These guys do not have time to recuperate, so the injuries, any kind of even minor thing gets exacerbated. because, you know, right now you're trying like hell to get in one of the six spots so you don't have to play in a play in. They're neck and neck with Portland. And so you don't have the luxury of sitting a guy down when he might need to be sit down. And so guys are going to, at the end of this season, it's really something to monitor because I hope we don't get some kind of rush of injuries, but especially for the teams that are. trying to get to where they want to get for the playoffs and the play in?

I mean, how many guys are going to play that wouldn't under another circumstance if you had three games in four nights? Because if you don't have three and four, you've got four in six or seven. It's tough. Or you've got five and eight. It's tough. Yeah, the schedule is really tough right now. And all these teams have this condensed schedule, the bunch of games packed in a handful of

days. It's tough. And with Dallas right now, if you know, every team has that tough schedule. But Dallas right now, they're tied with Portland for the six spot. Portland has a tie breaker at the moment. But, you know, same record of 32 and 26. Dallas is scheduled the rest of the way is much, much, much, much easier than Portland's.

And for Dallas right now, they play the Lakers again on Saturday. They're only two and a half back from the Lakers for the five spot. I'm not saying that they will catch them or could catch them with LeBron coming back soon, 80 back now. But that's not out of the question either. You know, with the fact that Dallas has a pretty easy. easy schedule the rest of the way. Well, here is one thing that I do want to mention about Dallas, and this came out yesterday.

It was on Dallas Basketball, FN, and by Mike Fisher. Yeah, and it was the headline. I don't feel like this has gotten that much play. Do you? I mean, considering, you know, it's kind of a big deal, right? When the owner is coming out and addressing, because it starts with, and I suppose this has been a topic in Dallas. It says Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban yesterday wisely addressed the elephant in the MFFL room, the relationship between Luca Dantia to Christas Porzingis,

both acknowledging its dust-up nature and downplaying the long-term significance. On the court, they are fine. He said on 105.3, the fan. That's not to say there aren't dust-ups, because there are. I'd compare it to Jet and Dirk. And of course, he's talking about Jason Terry and Dirt Novitsky, saying that they weren't best friends at the beginning, but they grew to like each other, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he goes on, he says,

coaches, coach, and Rick Carlisle kind of runs a show. So everything gets worked out on the court. But KP and Luca get along fine. That's just they're different people. They like to do different things. And then, of course, Mike Fisher ends the article by saying, Cuban is, of course, spending a great deal of money and Mavs fans spending a lot of money, time, and passion, hoping that, quote, doing different things off the court can be pushed aside and up and down Mavs strive for the same things on the court.

It's fascinating, right? I mean, just the whole idea, when I read it, I was like, I didn't know this was a thing, right? But there it was saying Mark Cuban went on local radio to address the elephant in the room, which is that these guys, aren't exactly thick as thieves. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I don't think too much of the story. Honestly, it sounds pretty normal for coworkers sometimes to coexist on the court. And then away from the workplace, not really chill and hang out all that much.

Not every co-workers like that together. You can produce together and excel together without being close friends away from the court or away from the office. So I don't think it's that much. I'm a little bit surprised that Cuban addressed it, but I suppose he was asked about it. Well, and it is a topic of conversation in Dallas, Chris. So it's been, has been for quite some time for Mavericks fans about the relationship and the seemingly

lack of chemistry in terms of the little stuff that fans see when they watch every game. Like high fives passing the ball to each other. How they interact on the huddle. Like that's the stuff you see when you're in it as a fan seeing every game and that they've always noticed it. You don't have to, but that stuff can bleed on to the court, number one.

Oh, yeah. And number two, when it matters, again, you don't have to be friends, but not, there's a difference between not being best of friends off the court or even friends that hang out off the court and being able to hold each other accountable and to be able to jump on each other during the course of a game. Like, you do have to have the type of relationship. In order to, for a team to reach its apex, your stars need to be able. to communicate with each other, sometimes in a tough way and not take it personally and not fracture.

And when that matters, it is a incredible bonus when your guys do have a great relationship with each other. There's no way around that. But it's not a necessity, but when the going gets tough, you know, that's when it can show up. When the finger pointing starts. For sure. I mean, you'd prefer, it's like we had this conversation for years with Ben Simmons and Joel and Bede about all their best friends. Are they going to get along? How can it work? If they're not super tight off the court. And, you know, I mean, I think every situation is different and we'll see how this plays out. I think right now you can look at both of those guys. You can look at Chris Stap's Porzingis and say, where's your defensive intensity every night? Where's the heart every single night on the defensive end of the floor? You can look at Luca and say, look, yeah, the refs maybe should blow the whistle a little bit more. but let's chill out, you know, and not let it affect your play and set a real negative tone for the teammates. You can look at both of those guys and say there's things that they need to improve upon as young guys in the league who are still getting better and still figuring out how to be leaders and examples for the rest of the roster. So, you know, for both of them, they both need to grow individually and grow together.

And I still look at this and I still say it is a minimal, it's minimal and importance compared to. to KP's health and durability. Like that to me is still the main thing, the number one thing, and the number one concern about Dallas's upside in a playoff situation. To me, like, number one, that's the thing. KP's health. Of course it is. It is hurt again.

But it is fascinating that an owner, and I know that Mark Cuban, you know, would run 10 miles to find a microphone, but still, instead of just blowing it off, they're fine, there's nothing there. People are making something of nothing. You know, these guys, you know, they're both competitors, blah, blah, blah. He did, you know, he did give more context to it than maybe normally is given, right? It was almost like this acceptance of, yeah, I know Mavs fans and media are talking about this.

They're seeing it in these huddles. They're seeing this lack of interaction or whatever it may be or maybe negative interaction on the court. And let me just assure you, it doesn't matter on the court, blah, blah, blah. And just the fact that he's even talking about it. Right, instead of just blowing it off is something. And it speaks to what the future holds for that team even beyond this year, right? Because you better believe this. They're going to make every decision that makes Luca happy.

As they should. As they should. As they should. And by the way, with Luca, it's the type of thing where he has gotten better at everything he needs to get better at. So when I say that about like the personality aspect and being a leader, and all that, right? He's gotten better as a three-point shooter. He's gotten better as a defender.

Next up, I'm sure the only natural next step for him is improving as a leader, which can happen with age, with experience, experiencing, you know, loss in playoffs last year against the clippers, and we'll see what happens this time around. You know, maybe they won't get the plan. You know, maybe they lose in the plan. Who knows what happens moving forward? It's all about building and growing and building on what doesn't go right for you. And with Luke, I think he's done a good job of that each step of his career.

I want to see KP bring it more consistently on the defensive end of the floor. It's the blessing and the curse of having your best player be a third year player. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're expecting them to lead grown men. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's hard.

It's a hard. You know, at 21 years old. It's 99.99, 9,999% of blessing, though, to have Lucas. Oh, of course. Of course it is. I'm just saying that it comes along with when your best player, when your best player is somebody that's 21 years old, I mean,

what is the expectation of how a 21-year-old is going to be able to comport themselves all the time? Yeah, exactly. That's why when I say that about him complaining about bad calls or miscalls, I don't really care all that much. I think that's part of it. And I think it's more of a symptom of the competitor that he is. Rick Carlisle back in January compared Lucas mindset to like Michael Jordan to Kobe Bryant to LeBron James, that type of guy, just with how intense he is with the deep desire to win and how he becomes so laser focused on those clutch moments. Luca does have that mindset.

And sometimes the bad side of that is complaining. That's because you set the standard so high for yourself. You know, that's just part of it. This is why we're the mismatch because I can do without that. Yeah. I don't sit there. I don't put that in the he's such a great competitor. editor column. It's annoying.

No, I'm, there's always ways to improve though. Like that's what we're speaking to that this great player can still get better in these ways. Like you can still get better as a leader, even if you do have that mindset. There's always ways to build. Also last night in the

Eastern Conference, possibly an East playoff preview with the Bucks beating Philly. And again, Philly is without Ben Simmons. So we know that that is a major difference in how they will theoretically look at the playoffs versus how they look last night.

But one thing that I do think was worth noting was you just don't see a lot of games where Joel M. B. comes away from the game where he has got 23 points. He's got five rebounds.

It's just not a big game for him. And so we're so used to, like virtually every night. It feels like it's 32 and 16 and these monster dominating nights. He ends up last night actually it's 24 points and 26 minutes, not bad, but he's 9 of 21 from the field. He's a minus 19 and he gets three rebounds in the game, which to me, that is at least something to note. when we think about these teams and maybe they become on a collision course against each other in the playoffs, because the job that you are able to do on Embed is going to be what decides a series against them.

I truly believe that. And at least for one night might just be a blip, might just be a regular season game. At least for one night, they were able to make him inefficient and keep him from dominating them the glass. Yeah, I mean, Milwaukee did a nice job on him. And that's something like you said, to file it away.

Maybe there's something to do it. And we'll look back at it if these teams face off again sometime to down the line in the playoffs. Like, they did a good job. They did a good job. And I think Brooke Lopez especially, I mean, he had the far majority of the matchups against him beat last night and did a good,

did good work against him making it tough on him. I would say this, though, Chris, I'm not going to overreact too much to, much of what we saw because as you said, Ben Simmons was out. It was a different team. It was also the second night out of back to back for the Sixers. They played on Wednesday night against Phoenix had that win.

And then they traveled the next morning or maybe that same night to get to Milwaukee on the road. It's always hard with any of these. Without the context of where these games fall in the schedule for every team, it's hard to know what we make out of them. Yeah. The game did make me think of this, though. Like this was my main thought watching last night. it's the importance of the one seed for Philadelphia. It's critical because with the two seed, you get a tougher first round opponent,

then you likely get the bucks in the second round, and then you likely get the Nets in the East Finals. Beating both those teams, Brooklyn and Milwaukee and back-to-back series, is going to be what an immense challenge. If you get through that, that is an incredible accomplishment. Whereas, you know, that's the harder path as the two-seed, whereas the one seed, you get to avoid the nets and the bulls. bucks until the East Finals.

God forbid you're in two and you end up with Miami in the first round. You know what I'm saying? That's no picnic. If you have to end up with Miami, a bam out of bio and Jimmy Butler and the team that went to the East Finals last year or the NBA finals last year for that matter, and then you have to play. So if you had to go heat and then bucks and then nets, I mean, that is. And make it through that unscathed.

Yeah, man. And it's, look, for Brooklyn, they have a lot of. of guys out right now. They have a harder schedule than Philadelphia. After this cup, these games against Milwaukee, it gets way, way, way easier for the Sixers. So, like, if I'm placing a bet today, I'd place a bet on the Sixers to get the one seed. But with that said, there's no guarantees here. There's no guarantees that you get it. You could, you know, hit a tough stretch. So I don't know, just watching the game made me think about how important it is to get the one seed for Philadelphia. Yeah. And we're still out there on, on the Durant thing.

Like, it is what it is. I saw our buddy Nick Wright, you know, do this monologue the other day. And it was, I think he chronicled it was like the last 400 days. He's played in 24 games. That's wild. Four of which he's left with injury. And it was like, what? In that con, when you think about it that way, and of course, that is including

that last game that he played in for the Warriors. But even if you did it, if you just said this season, you've played 20-something games, three of which you've left. left with injury. I mean, it is a thing. It is something to have great concern about because they're, whatever their destiny is, is totally dependent on him being healthy.

Yeah. Just is. For sure. Chris, where are you at right now with the Sixers as a true finals threat? Oh, I think they're right there at the top of the list. Yes.

I mean, because here's the thing. I think that they, I think size-wise, they are going to be a massive, massive problem for even the Nets. I do. Because you're going to walk into a NET series and you'll have to do it the same way that some of these grind it down teams did it against the warriors in the past, especially with somebody's that offensively explosive, which is just you murder them on the glass and you turn that thing into half-court basketball. And so when they miss, you get the ball. When you miss, you get the ball.

And when you're throwing Ben Simmons, Joel Embed, and Tobias Harris out there, I mean, that is a big lineup. And they also have big guys that they can bring off the bench. And that could be the thing that is a problem for Brooklyn if there is a problem, that it is DeAndre Jordan and Blake Griffin and Nick Clackson. They don't have somebody for Ambid. and they might not have. And obviously Simmons, an elite-level defender, he can take one of those outrageous scorers, at least one of them,

if he could just make one of them inefficient. So, I mean, I view it, I view all of this through the prism of, can you beat the Nets? And I think that they are, it's possible that they're the antidote for that Nets team, that, you know, along the way, whether it was Memphis,

whether it was Oklahoma City, these teams that were rugged and had a bunch of big guys, they were the ones that always gave the warriors a really hard time. And they could keep the possessions lower and grind it out against them and really dominate with their size.

In that case, it was Durant, Abaca and like Perkins or Adams. I think, yeah. I mean, Philly's right there. I would say, I would only be shocked if it's not the Nets, Philly, or Milwaukee. You know, it's kind of funny.

The Philly has lost three games in a row now, Golden State, Phoenix, and then Milwaukee. And yet I come away from this week thinking like, oh, Matisse Thibble made life hell for Devin Booker on Wednesday night. Thibble had one of the better defensive performances. I can remember watching this entire season, just how tough he made it for Booker every time he ran a pick and roll and Booker was forced to pass. or Booker brought the ball up to court one time. Thibel strips him from behind.

They get the ball back. Booker eventually has what seems like an open three point opportunity. And it gets blocked by Thibel. I mean, he's just so active. It's amazing to watch Matisse Thibel doing what he's doing. Seeing George Hill continue to get integrated into the offense. Like, it feels like he's going to close a lot of games for the Sixers. I mean, he plays an important role as a ball handling presence and getting more opportunities to do that with Simmons out.

You know, I really like what George Hill is. bring in. So I feel, even though I've lost three in a row, I feel better about Philly because of these individual traits that we're seeing from the team. Like, Thibel can be a stopper. He'll can be a playmaker for you. They can play different ways depending on the series, depending on the matchup, depending on the night. So I'm higher on the Sixers after the three losses in a row, which is weird to say. I also want to believe. And I talk about how every year we talk about like those playoff scars and getting your heart ripped out of your chest and the character that builds and the things that come along with that.

Virtually everybody has to lose before they win. I mean, even that Miami team, the big three lost before they won. And I want to believe, for the sake of the NBA, I want to believe that that's so, that chemistry does matter, that you can't just throw together a team. and then go and take a run to the finals. Now, I say that, we just saw it basically with the Lakers last year. But I don't want that to be commonplace that just every year you could just throw together a team, build this super team. And it doesn't, like all those things that like going to the playoffs and earning your stripes or taking, you know, getting some scars or playing together in a meds about.

I mean, because this, this will be by far the most ridiculous. because these dudes have not even shared the court, Kevin. They haven't even been out there. Like, we're going to get to the playoffs, and the amount of possessions they have played actually together. And with, like, even their guys, like, you know, when you're talking about Claxton and you're talking about Blake Griffin and who, like the amount of possessions that whatever their most used lineup is going to be come

playoff time is, it's going to be ridiculous, like truly ridiculous. The amount, the lack of continuity that should be there, but we know probably won't because they're just so offensively devastating. But I want to believe that, you know, these teams that have lost, the Bucks, the Sixers, teams that have been together, done it together, gotten their heart tripped out together, that that matters. When you get to the playoffs and when push comes to shove, that that is an advantage for you. Yeah.

And there's a, it's kind of funny. Like stylistically, there's a handful of those teams. Some of them have underwhelmed this year like Miami, Boston, but still, like you still feel like there's a chance that they can fight. You have Jimmy Baller saying what he said the other day about like, we'll get to the, we'll get the playoffs together. I'll take care of it from there. You know, like you still have some level of belief in those teams in Utah and the Western Conference. going through it, you know, losing the way they have. The Clippers going through it, losing in their first year together.

Last year, year two, a lot of the time is better. So, you know, there's a lot of those teams that have been through it together, and you'd like to see them do well. And you think about the last two Western Conference finals reps that we have had that maybe people didn't see coming. It was the Blazers who had gotten beat time and time again. They've made the playoffs and gotten knocked out prematurely. and then Denver, who had gotten their hearts ripped out, you know, in the seventh game.

So, I mean, yeah, I want to believe that that matters, that you can't just throw together a team that doesn't even play together. And it just, it's of no consequence. And hopefully that provides a real advantage for some of these teams, especially in the East, because we really only have the, you know, because the team that we thought was like the top contender for the Lakers last year. year was also just a thrown-together team in terms of, I know they had like Lou Will and Montres and those guys, but that was going to happen based upon what Kauai and Paul George did. And it was their first run through. Guess what? They took some scars last year.

And now this year may be better off for that, I would imagine they will be, certainly when they get into some of the situations that might come. You mentioned Boston as a team. Big Kamba night last night. I think he ended up oddly being the leading score in the NBA. It was not a huge slate of games, but he had 32 points in the game last night. Watching back through some of those highlights, I mean, he was getting to the basket. He was knocking down some threes.

And over the course of this month, we'll see if it's small sample or not. But the field goal percentage is way up what it's been throughout this year. he's closer to 50% than he is to 40%. And this hasn't been, you know, and I know Boston fans are not exactly, there's not a lot of people run it out buying Kemba Walker jerseys all the time. But if you just watch last night,

which was a bad, bad Tatum night, like Kimball Walker looked like Charlotte Kemper Walker, like a guy that really can be a huge problem. And it hasn't felt like he's a huge, problem when you go into games, but if he could be, you know, and you got to do it when Jaylen's back too, but he's trending up at the right time. It was a Kimber Walker masterpiece, really, because not only did he score a lot, he also took three charges in the game, and now he is tied with Kyle Lowry for the league

lead in charges taking. Is that right? Yes. time for the league lead. I would not have gotten that right. You know, charges per game. This is according to the second spectrum. Who do you think's first and charges taken per game?

Well, and you're telling me it's obviously not one of those two? It's not one of those two. Who's number one? Kemba is number two for what it's worth. I'd say it's a big guy. And so... You're never going to get this guy. I'm not?

No, you're never going to get them. Why? Is it one of those like per minute things? Yeah, no. Just charges per game. And it is like a player who'd qualify in the minutes lead report. Okay. So he does play enough.

Yeah, he plays enough. Yep. He plays enough. A significant amount of minutes. All right. Hold on. A big guy that I think takes a lot of charges. So you think it's a big guy.

That's where we're going. I do. A little pop quiz here. That's what I guess. The listeners can play along as well. Well, I guess, I guess, I guess, look, should you narrow that down? Am I right that it's a big guy or not? Just take a guess.

I'll say the shocking revelation will be that it is Rudy Gobert. It is not Rudy Gobert. Rudy Gobert takes 0.069 charges per game. He's taking full. He just, yeah, he just blocks shots. He doesn't take charges. Number one, number one in the lead. My theory on this would be that that would be shocking and he's in front of the basket all the time.

Number one is Blake Griffin. Blake Griffin takes 0.576 charges per game according to second affection. That is the old Clipper influence. You can take the flopper out of L.A., but you can't take the L.A. out of the flop. He took four and it's worth. He's taken eight of them with the nets, 11 of them with the Pistons. So 19 total on the season.

Blake Griffin, number one in the league in charges taking per game. Kemp is number two. But yeah, anyway, like back on track, sorry. But I hope you listeners enjoyed playing this little pop quiz game. Charges taking. Well, that goes on it. That goes on Blake Griffin's Hall of Fame resume. It might go on my blurb on Monday for my power rankings.

Okay. Well, let's talk about what you did this past week, which was, and this is going to be a conjunction with talking about the three hottest teams we got going in this Eastern Conference. The Raptors have been on fire in April, and then who would have imagined, Kiv, that we would get towards the end of April. And we would be, I would have bet big money that we weren't, I was not going to introduce that the teams that are eight and two in their last 10 games. And we already touched on Boston, who's been eight and two. The two hottest teams in the NBA being the New York Knicks and the Washington Wizards.

just impossible odds that you could have gotten on that. And both of those teams have been awesome. They're in different positions. New York, by virtue of their record, has moved themselves all the way up to a home court advantage team. If we started the playoffs today, Washington is scratching and clawing just to be able to get into the play-in, into the play-in round to give themselves the opportunity to be a part.

of the playoffs this year. And I think it's fair to say that for the season, the Wizards have not been as good as we expected them to be. The Knicks have exceeded every single human's expectation on the planet. I think they, I bet if you even asked Leon Rose and Tom Tibido, they didn't. 100%.

No way. 100%. They didn't, they did not expect it to be, to go this well. I would say Tibbs would be less surprised because a coach, you always feel like you have a chance. Management. Right. You have more of like an unbiased perspective of the team.

You know, you know, you might suck. I would be shocked if Leon Rose, you know, and the lie detector was like, oh yeah, we expected to be slightly above 500 and also one of the funnest teams to watch

in basketball. Right. Well, and look, we've got some freaky stuff going on with them, Kev. Let me pull this up because I, okay,

over the last. 10. As I mentioned, the Knicks are 8 and 2. Julius Randall is playing 40 minutes a game and averaging 28 points, shooting 39% from 3 point range, shooting almost 7 a game, 86% from the free throw line, and he is averaging just a tick under 10 rebounds per game and 7 assists per game. So we're talking 28, 10, and 7 over the course of the last 10 games. And R.J. Barrett has come along for the ride with him and is 18 and a half points per game, 46% from the field, 50% from 3. And you talked about R.J. Barrett in your video this week that you did. And let me say this. This is, it might be. opinion, one of the best ones you've ever done.

I would say top three. I'd say top three. Pocke number one, of course. I forgot you even did that. I thought Drew Handlin was unbelievable. Yeah, truly good. Like, when you talk to somebody like that, sometimes, and for those that have not watch it, I would encourage you go watch it.

He is a trainer to many different players, including R.J. Barrett. And he talked to him about the shooting mechanics, and he spoke about that. And immediately, I started thinking of other left-handed shooters that I have covered over the years. And he talked about the elbow in versus elbow out. And look, my favorite player, or certainly one of them that I've ever covered, was Zach Randolph. And I immediately thought to how he looked when he shot. And his elbow was always out. His elbow was never like straight in front of his face.

And the other thing was the deceleration that he talked about and how RJ can get better on drives going out instead of up. And then, of course, you had some video clips of it. But the fact that he got into such intense detail about both of those things and how this particular player improved made him. honestly so much better an interview subject than I thought he was going to be when you introduced it. Yeah, truly. Yeah, he was great, man. I really appreciated Drew Hanlon's feedback on that. I mean, all through the years, like I've gone to Drew for a couple different stories for the Tatum thing last year that I wrote.

And some other stuff over the years, he's always insightful. And I thought, you know, when I watched the video back on Thursday morning with fresh eyes after like, you know, editing it with Bronic Nair and Dylan Burkey, who produced the video, they do awesome, awesome. awesome work. And watching it with fresh eyes, I'm like, geez, like, Drew really brought like some life lessons here too. He really did. He said something at the end the video. In regards to RJ Barrett's development, we were talking about where he is today. And then I asked about like, what's next for him? He shoots a lot of mid-range pull-ups, but he doesn't shoot really any pull-up three-pointers. And because I knew like in the past, that was part of the training plan for Bradley Beale and for Jason Tate and was extending your range each

year. And so he said with RJ, the focus this past summer was about catch and shoot three pointers in the little simple mid-range pull-up at the elbow. He said this summer will be about extending that pull-up to three-point range as a simple pull-up. And then over the years, you build from that, adding side steps and more complicated shots. But he said in there, he's like, our philosophy with training players is to focus on one thing and to try to drill that down year by year. And that means you'll get really, really good at that one thing and you'll put off other stuff that, you know, might take a while. But the alternative is like spurting yourself too thin, trying to work on too much. And then maybe you don't get a lot of improvement.

And I just thought, you know, that like no matter what you do, that is a type of, you know, philosophy to follow if it works for you. Everybody's different. But for me, like, I've found in my own life playing guitar, like, it's easy for me to focus on one thing. I've played comfortably known by Pink Floyd almost every single day, Chris, for the last couple months. And I'm better at playing that soul than I have ever been in my life because I play it every day. I'm not really playing a lot of other stuff. I am here and there because you got to, you know, touch up on what you're doing. But that's my primary focus.

And I think with basketball, whatever it is that you do, that's something to follow. It's a game plan to follow. And I think it's important also to have a game plan. Well, and I think it's just nice to me to hear the story. This kid has obviously worked to get better. He has worked. Here are the things. And he also has somebody that's telling him like, hey, here's the difference between.

And then it is on that particular individual to take that stuff to heart to say, okay, I, I, there's a lot of guys that can sit there and say, look, I've gotten this far doing it my way. All right? So they don't want to hear it. But when you find somebody like that that is willing to listen to somebody that can help them truly improve, and then it's on them to put in the work. And there is no denying because you add in there. I think he shot like 30% from three from Duke at Duke, which is crazy because that is not a hard shot.

The college three, there's a lot of guys that can shoot that proficiently and not shoot. The NBA 3s. The NBA 3, it's a world of difference. But the fact that he can knock him down the way he can now, and especially as I told you, over this last 10 games, he's 50%. And when they throw, when they whip it over to the corner, you feel like it's automatic now for him. That's just, that's a kid that worked, worked to get that way because he wasn't. He wasn't that level of shooter at all. And that's the thing with RJ Barry, that's always been, you know, the conversation about it. This is a guy. who's a worker, you know, and Drew Hanlon said it in the interview, like, he's also not just a worker. He seeks feedback and seeks criticism because he wants to find things to get better at. And I think that speaks to the importance of having, like, good people around you. Like, you know, Drew Hanlon and his role is the skills coach and all that, but also like just Rowan Barrett, you know, the father of R.J. Barrett being, you know, a player, being having the role in Canadian basketball that he has had,

having like that guidance can help empower somebody who does have those traits. He's also always had Nash in his life. Dash in his life too, exactly. A lot of people. A lot of good mentors. I think maybe one of the reasons to, the reason I'm bringing up these two guys, Randall and Barrett, is because I think they're both cut from the same cloth in terms of that level of work. Because, and that's why, if you're searching for reasons, why in part has this team overperformed in our expectations?

in a way that most people did not see coming. It's because you have these two guys that are incredible workers and do play hard on regular occasion. And then off the court, there was a Knicks game I was watching. And forgive me because I'm not, you know, it was one of those like sideline reports that they were talking about.

And I want to say it was Minnesota. I think it was Minnesota. and the reporter is telling a story and she says that when they went to Minnesota, they had like gotten in late, and there was a local high school that was closer. They weren't going to be able to get in one of the gyms, but there was like a local high school

that they could call ahead and they could get up shots when they got to, when they got into town. And so, So Julius Randall, they were getting into town late. He got there and he went to this high school and got up shots. And the reason he did that, and the guy at that high school gym, she went and talked to him, he said the last person in the NBA to do that was Kobe Bryant.

And he said, and then she goes on. It tells this story that the thing that Randall talks about with Kobe and what he passed on to him was the work ethic and that when you get in town somewhere else go get your shots up and it was crazy to hear that story being told there and then it becomes a point where a couple other guys then have started going with Randall when they get into towns at different places because sometimes you just can't find a gym but the idea that you go and find a gym that you can go to and he saw Kobe Bryant do that. in his career.

And it was a story from this year that Randall went out of his way and did that. And so when you talk about the Barrett thing and then I see that video and then I heard that, you know, Randall's story earlier this year. Yeah, when you've got these kind of hard workers like that, that just has, you want to know how to overachieve, have guys like that. Yeah. You know? Those are the types of people that you want to win with.

They care. Yeah, like a team can win with people who don't put. it all in there, you know, that don't really work hard or work smart. You can win like that, but I don't think there's anything more rewarding than winning with people, you know, in your locker room, in your corner, in your group that just put it all in there for themselves and for the greater good of the team too. And like this whole Knicks team, like we're talking about RJ Barrett and Julius Randall here, but there's so many workers on this roster. Like, like, just tough guys. Taj Gibson, no way.

Wells had a slow start to his career playing so well right now. Alec Berks playing really, really well. I mean, you'll quickly. Like up and down the roster, man, this team is a bunch of hard workers.

And it's just fun to watch the next. D. Rose. D. Rose is, Hey, he's still good. Yeah. He can still do. Derek Rose is still good.

Derek Rose is still producing. And it's, it's wild to watch Derek turn into what Derek is now, you know, as, Once upon a time, he was the phenom, youngest MVP ever, the whole not top of the world. But, like, he is still a totally solid NBA player who on any given night may really, really surprise you. Yep.

He can turn it back sometimes. He can turn it back. Yeah. The other team that we mentioned was the Washington Wizards. And I want to mention this name because. I had mentioned, I guess, a week ago on, I had seen this Tom Haverstrow tweet, and it was about, it was from a table that was put together because of COVID and how many player games had been missed this year because of what had, what had taken place this year. And I, that table that I saw, I didn't know who put it together. The guy reached out, the guy happens to be a massive mismatch fan.

So I want to give him his love. Nikiel Marar is the one that put it together, him and his team. And what they did was NBA player days missed to COVID this year, and they have the chart so that you can go and look up. And so my initial reaction to it, Boston actually has missed the most. And they are followed by Dallas, Toronto, Miami, and then Minnesota. and then the least by pretty wide margin is Indiana this year. But at the beginning of the season, about 10 down,

you'll find the Wizards. And you know the Wizards had an issue with that. And I do think that it was even harder for them because they're trying to put together a whole team, you know, playing in a way that they have never played before. And the insane thing about them while the story of the Knicks is, they've been good defensively kind of all year. And then you've got these Randall and Barrett crazy stats.

And you do have crazy stats for the Wizards. Over these last 10 games, you've got Beale averaging, you know, still 30 points a game. You've got Russell Westbrook averaging 21 points, 13 assists, and 14 rebounds per night. Burthans finally decided to start hitting shots. and the interesting one, the Dan Gafford edition, I'm glad you brought that name up.

It's been real, but it's been significant, but beyond all of that, the most insane thing about the Wizards in this streak is Fred Katz, who covers the Wizards on a daily basis, had been tweeting out about this,

and I just kept thinking, this is crazy. Washington is now 18th in the NBA and defensive rating on the month 11th over the past two months and Fred went and said if you go to clean the glass which takes out garbage time

they are 16th on the season but since February 13th they are 6th in the NBA in defensive rating 6th this team didn't defend anybody The Daniel Gafford effect.

Six. Daniel Gafford has been legitimately really good. Like we kind of like joke about it because it's Daniel Gafford. And it was not a surprise. But he brings real energy on both ends on the floor, lob thread on offense, just constantly active on defense. He's one of those. It's like we just talked about with the Knicks with the energy aspect.

Gafford brings that energy and intensity and focus and heart every single possession on the defensive end of the floor. And that's if you're a teammate, if you're on the floor with a guy like that, that's inspiring, man. That inspires you to watch and inspires you to play harder. He also can finish and it's perfect to have with Russ because he was playing with a bunch of guy. Robert Lopez can't finish nothing. Mo Wagner was starting for him and couldn't these are all like below the rim players. You know, if you just got somebody. Or picking pop guys sometimes too. Yeah. If you got somebody, I mean, you know Russ is a freight train.

He's going to be going to the basket and he's going to get you baskets. Just keep moving with him. But and people can roll their eyes that Thomas Bryant injury really hurt them. It did, taking him out of the mix because they didn't have anybody else to just plug and play until they got Gafford, which is a sneaky, great trade deadline acquisition that I don't think any of us particularly expected. No. He's been, and sixth, and sixth in defensive rating is crazy to me. And by the way, the Russell Westbrook, Daniel Gafford,

pick and roll combination, like statistically has not been that efficient. So, like, there's still room for growth there, according to second spectrum. They score, that wizard score, 0.6 points per chance

when Russell Westbrook is the ball handler and Gafford is the screener. And that's in the 16th percent. But, but, but Kevin, hold on now. It doesn't have to be picking

Pick and rolls. I know that. I'm talking about Russ flying to the basket. Chris, we're on the same page. All I'm saying is like there's still room for growth. Like it's not just pick and roll, but like pick and roll can be even way better.

It's like as good as these guys are with Gafford cutting for dump offs, always available around the rim. And exactly we're talking about like the pick and roll itself can be even better. Like there's still room for growth of those guys. Good luck running pick and rolls with Russ. You ain't got time to run that shit. He is fly. him. He is gone. He's going straight to the basket. He's not waiting for your screen. He doesn't need it. He's going straight to the basket. Just be there. Just stand next to the basket and he's going to throw the ball into your hands. Right? There was that clip that went around that video earlier this year of him flying down the court four different times and dropping it off to like, it was Danny of Eja one time. It was Robin Lopez and them all like, you know, either getting blocked or blowing layups at the rim. And it was like the sad horde stuff.

going on. It's just he's going to get you layups. I mean, Stephen Adams made a living off of it. Just, just stand down there. Just be there. Be available. But the Wizards, it'd be a lot more fun if they get into this thing, because at least even if they're just in the play yet, it makes it entertaining to have Westbrook and Beal in there. And you've got a puncher's chance when you've got those two guys. For sure. And you know, you've got the Wizards right now in the 10th spot. They're half a game up on the Bulls and the Raptors. Raptors winters a winners of four in a row right now. Chris, I have to say this. I have a player that's growing on my favorite players list. You're going to be late on this. Do you know, late? Who is it?

I saw, I saw you tweet about it. Freddie G. Freddie G., baby. So, Freddie Gillespie, the reason I say you're late on this is because I watched him play every game. He played for the Memphis Hustle. He played in the bubble. And we all wanted him, we all wanted them to sign him. He was the best guy. He was the, I mean, he was, he was, he was, he was, he was, fantastic. You know, they'd signed him before and he's going to be playing for the Memphis hustle in the bubble. And it was like, who is this guy? Because he played with this serious energy. And he was putting up some really big night for them. And especially when, you know, when the Grizzlies bought out Gorgie Jing, I kind of thought that that roster

spot, that that would go to, maybe they'd bring in Gillespie, who was kind of a revelation for that hustle team. But everybody, everybody that paid attention to the bubble and paid attention to the team, everybody fell in love

with Freddie there and knew that at some point, he was one of the guys that made one of the biggest depressions at that G-League bubble. And so it's not all that surprising to be that he's having, you know,

a little run here with Toronto because he was, anybody that watched him there, he was clearly better than his operas. position most every night. Yeah. You know.

Yep. I mean, you got Freddie G. who's just a ball of energy on the court. So lovable off the court. That video, the Raptors posted of him today, dancing to party in the USA by Miley Cyrus. You got him yesterday.

Did you see his media availability when he was asked about defensive schemes? And he turns to Raptors PR. He's like, if I allowed to answer this question? Can I talk about schemes? It's so great. Yeah. You know the other thing that you think about when you think about this Freddie Gillespie play for Toronto?

Bro, imagine Baylor with him. Oh, yeah. My God. I mean, they didn't get to play out last season, right? Because it all got shut down. But hell, I mean, Baylor might have won the national championship last year. They had that dude, too. One more quick thought on the Raptors, though.

Their entire center rotation has changed. Gillespie, the energy off the bench. that he's bringing the shop blocking 7 foot 5, 7 foot 6 swing span. Kem Birch in the starting lineup right now and the rotation every night, Birch has been very important for that team. They feel, they feel a little different. They feel different. And it's like we've talked about a lot.

This is a running theme. I'm not sure how much like what happened in December and January and even February really matters all too much when projecting forward. The Raptors right now are a completely different team. And if they get into that play in, wouldn't shock me if they win two games to get in and grab the eight seed wouldn't shock me one bad they could be tough they could be tough

we talked about hey look we talked about being in those moments big games playing together I mean Van Fleet Lowry and Seaccombe regardless of who else is surrounding them those guys they've been in those moments together they've won a title together

for goodness sakes Toronto's got a really tough schedule down the stretch so their last 13 games are hard. They've been awesome in April, though. Yeah, they've been good so far, you know. So they're riding a hot streak and I hope they're competitive. I'll put it.

Bottom line, I think this Raptors team has shown why within that front office, there's belief that they can be really, really good again next season when they're back in Toronto. There's a lot of talent on that roster. Well, and Kev, you never know. And this is, we'll parlay this into like kind of some stuff going on this weekend. you have Miami who you know still has just not been moving up these standings

but it might be on the horizon they get to play a trayless Atlanta Hawks team and I saw him yesterday briefly when I was walking through by living group the jump was on and they had him on there and he made it sound certainly a lot better than maybe we originally thought that injury might be but in the meantime they are going to have to play without Trey Young who has been essential to kind of what they've been doing

so the heat have them but then if the heat kind of get it together and Chicago still hasn't had Levine back even though they've won a couple games here there's two games in a row where the heat have the Bulls and for a team like Toronto or a team like Washington or whoever else if the Bulls take a couple of those losses I mean that could just put them out of it honestly like if they they get it

The heat could really put the bulls out if they could drop them twice in a row. You're just getting way too far behind the eight ball with these other teams playing really well. So that's a possibility. We have the second parts of two games that we saw last night. So we will get to see a rematch of Milwaukee and Philly on Saturday. We will also get to see a rematch of L.A. and Dallas. And I think these can be instructive just because the same way we look at it as a playoff series, that it's like, okay, here's what happened in that first game. Inevitably, you're playing the exact same team.

You make the adjustments. You come back for a next game playing against each other. So I do, I like this for that, for that portion of this. You know, the one thing about this crap schedule is that when these teams play back to back, you do kind of get that playoff. feel where you're seeing the same team, therefore you are preparing for them for next night. You kind of see how much the other team can flip the way the first game was played. And then we have Memphis, Portland, which is a monster. They play two this weekend.

That's monstrous for the seating from really six down to ten between those two teams. When you've got the Warriors right there, the Spurs. behind Derek White went in last night. And the Pelicans are, they won last night, but they're in danger of, you know, they're a little bit farther behind. New Orleans has to win these games. Three back from Golden State right now.

Three and a half back from San Antonio, four back from Memphis. Like, 13 games left. You're probably not catching Memphis. Maybe San Antonio, you've got to hope for catching the Warriors and Stefan Curry. It's going to be tough, man. Right.

And so we have those. And so we do have some pretty, big games that are going on this weekend. And it just speaks to what you and I have both been big supporters of this whole play-in thing. I don't know how anybody could not feel that this is not infinitely more entertaining. And like these games, like Toronto's games and these Blazers Grizzlies games and that Mavs game and like all these games actually do have some meaning.

A lot of meaning. where yeah if the wizards aren't involved in the 10 at all like who gives a shit but they are and so it's like okay if they keep on winning that you know these other teams better watch their back and I think it I think it's having the desired out of this is playing out very very very well it really is for the teams that are involved

the stars that are involved for the fans involved too Yeah, in jeopardy. They're in jeopardy of missing, like not being involved in it at all. And, I mean, and you're talking Step Curry. You're talking Zion.

You're talking Russell Westbrook. You're talking like real stars in this. Kyle Lari said it the other day. He said, I think it's fun. It's more engaging for the fans. It's kind of an NCAA tournament like. It's kind of NCAA tournament like for a couple of days.

I think it's just something that gives fans something to look forward to. That pretty much sums up the way I feel. about it. It's going to be fun. It's going to be a really fun week for the playing tournament. Because I'm already looking forward to this weekend and like how these games play out, but imagine when we get to the last week of this. Oh yeah, it's going to be nuts. That really is going to feel like elimination time, you know? Big time. One thing that we do on to end on today because I want to mention this and I want to send out my

thoughts of first to all, you know, the big blue nation, as they call them in Kentucky. and John Cal Perry and that staff, who I know a few of them from their time in Memphis, and also Terrence Clark's family. Yeah. And everybody that has been with him, prospective draft prospect, Terrence Clark, 19 years old, played last year in Kentucky, and was getting ready for the NBA draft and tragically passed away in a car accident yesterday in Los Angeles. To see that come across my timeline, I mean, my heart just.

dropped. It broke my heart. I got a text yesterday from somebody who said, I'm hearing some bad stuff about Terrence Clark and I searched Terran Clark's name on Twitter. There's nothing there. And then 10 minutes later,

there's a couple of tweets popping up about it. And I don't know. I don't know what the news first came out. It's like this 19-year-old kid, I just signed with a clutch sports on Wednesday. You know, it's awful. I mean, what should be like the height,

you know, the good moment in his life, It's just, I don't know, it breaks my heart. It really does. Thoughts and prayers to everybody involved with Terrence because that is, I saw Tyrese Maxie tweeting about it last night and just how, I mean, you know, and it's a shame that stuff like this happens, but everybody always then reiterates, you know, hold your loved ones close because you never know.

Yeah, no, you never know. Nobody's exempt from anything. And that's the scary part of life. And ultimately, I mean, Terence, close. Clark, I didn't really, I don't know anything about him really. He's a Boston kid, you know, born in Dorchester. And everything I understand about him is that he was so many people loved to be around. You know, a lot, he knew a lot of NBA players, his teammates.

There's just a good teammate, good person to be around. So, you know, sending all the best to his family and everybody who loved him and knew him, it's heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking. Heartbreaking to say the least. Before we get out of here, a little reading for everybody to do. This weekend on the ringer.com. What do we got, Kev? We have the oral history of the best game Mike Dantone ever saw by Mike Mazio on

the ringer.com. Looking forward to reading that. I haven't checked it out yet. It's about a 2006 game between the Sons and the Net. Steve Nash, Jason Kid, a 161, 157 game. I look forward to checking that out. And also one of the things definitely to check out, too, is Mirren Fader's profile that she wrote about Jay Sean Tate, a rookie from the Houston Rock.

because I thought it was beautifully written and tells his story and his background and some of the adversity he has been through throughout his life that has made him into the hard-nosed tough player that he is today who just plays to win. I really love that story too. Super cool. All right, so everybody read those over the weekend.

Look, I knew that that Dan Tony article was not going to be about his team missing 27-3s in a row, whatever they missed, right? Not that high-scor and fair. And Rajah Bell's all. also in that in that story. Yes, Raja's in that too. Right. Our own Raja Feltra. Yes, the ringers, real ones.

With Raja and Logan. We will have a good weekend. Hopefully you have a good weekend. We'll watch a bunch of basketball and we'll be able to reconvene on Tuesday. This episode came together thanks to the work of associate producer Sasha Ashall. And Kevin, I'll talk to you on Tuesday.

I'm looking forward to work. Chris, have a good weekend. Everybody.