The Mismatch - Believing in the Thunder, Why the Knicks and Mavs Won the Day, and Recapping a Mediocre Trade Deadline

Episode Date: February 9, 2024

Verno and KOC discuss a mediocre NBA trade deadline that saw no real impactful moves made. They go through the winners of the deadline, including the Knicks and Mavericks, as well as their disappointment with the Lakers and Warriors for not making any moves (08:40). Next, they discuss what kind of impact Gordon Hayward will have with the Thunder, and debate whether Oklahoma City can make a Finals run (24:35). Also, they discuss what Royce O'Neale brings to the Suns, Xavier Tillman’s fit with Boston, and other smaller deadline deals (38:07). Got a question for Verno and KOC? Send them an email at [e-mail]! Or you can send the guys a tweet @ChrisVernonShow and @KevinOConnorNBA! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out http://theringer.com/RG to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? It's Austin Rivers from Offguard, and I've got some exciting news. Offguard hosted by me and my guide Pasha Giggi is officially moving to our own podcast feed. We are now dropping two shows every week. Me and Pasha go way back and talk so much hoops already that we figured it was time to fire up the mics and let you in on these conversations. Every week, Pasha and myself will hit on the biggest stories happening around the league. Tap into the show twice a week on our new Offguard feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to the mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me on this Thursday afternoon.

Post-Trade deadline is Kevin O'Connor from the ringer.com, aka Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Clymer, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Brien. Kevin O'Brien. What did you think, man? How was deadline day for you? You having fun? David Rar already gone. What a dud.

What a dud. A dud of a trade deadline day. Yeah. Look. Big time. But for you, I got to be honest. I thought we were going to come on this camera and I was going to see swollen eyes. I thought I was going to see a red face.

I thought I was going to see a man that has been moaning and grieving for the last four hours. And you look, you look good as ever, Kevin, unfazed by the new. of the day. And I got to tell you, they did just super dirty right in the middle of trade deadline, while everyone in the free world is locked in on NBA transactions. Out of nowhere, those dirty pistons say they've waived Killian Hayes right when everybody's paying attention to everything going. See, this happens in a day or two. It kind of just flies. by. But instead, right in the middle of the entire NBA world and all the fans' attention, here it goes, and then it leads to the memes, and then it leads to the jokes. And a lot of people

made jokes at your expense. A lot of people made jokes at Killian's expense. And I want to say that when I read the Killian Hayes camp asked for a change of scenery and the pisses and said, how about the bus stop? I didn't laugh at it. I didn't laugh at that tweet. When they said, Killian Hayes' camp asked for a change of scenery and the pistons said,

how about Lifetime Fitness? I didn't laugh at it because you're my friend. And that's why. This is the best day ever. I mean, I mean, you did say to me, Chris, my eyes don't look puffy at all. When the news broke, I was in the middle of listening to my playlist, my 100% good songs playlist on Spotify,

and Purple Rain by Prince was the song playing as the news broke. It's just, never going to cause you in a problem. The guitar solo was literally about to kick in when I got the bomb on my phone. And there were some tears, a little bit of sadness, a little bit of anger when I saw old takes exposed pop up and a little bit of resentment against those. Oh, old takes is a tough one. A little bit of resentment against the pistons for doing me dirty like this. It hurts, Chris.

Dirty, dirty. And I said to one of my buddies, I said, look, man, I promise you, nobody is built for it to take this. more than Kevin is. And I said, and honestly, I said, the only, the only bad thing about it was that he had him one. If he had him two, nobody ever cares. You know, nobody sits around and goes, oh, you like James Wiseman, right? A lot of people had James Wiseman number two. In that draft, though, less, right? A lot of people had James Wiseman. Some people had James Wiseman number one, and nobody ever beat him up over it. But

you went out on a limb. You went out on a limb and the limb broke and now Killian's waived. I mean, look, we've talked about this on pods. I think me and Kyle Mann talked about him the draft show. You and I might have talked about it. We've definitely talked about it too. I mean,

I think like with Lamello, with Anthony Edwards, those guys should have been ahead of Killian. No shit. So should have Tyree Taliburton and a whole bunch of brothers. About 30 guys should have been ahead of them. But ultimately, I think a lot of teams, a lot of people around the league, including Detroit, they had them in their top three, their top five.

And I don't think a lot of people could have anticipated that he would be such a bum on offense. Hopefully, for Killian's sake, he lands in a situation where he's able to fix his jumper, whether it's with the Spurs or the Thunder or somewhere overseas, go to. the Dante X-Som school of improving your three-point jumper. And because if he improves his three-point jumper, you can be a serviceable NBA player when he's a good defender, he's a good passer, he's a good decision-maker. He just sucks as a score, and I think he's got like some confidence issues as well.

So it's unfortunate. Everybody's got their draft whiffs, their draft mistakes. It's kind of cool to have- swearing off French guards. French guards, done. We're done with them. Sure. After Nilakina and this one, you're done.

You're swearing them off. I'm done with French guards, not done with French players, but I am done with French guards. There's plenty of French players in this upcoming draft, but they're none of them are guards. It's kind of cool for me personally. It's kind of cool to have such a public miss because it becomes a conversation starter with a bunch of people around the league where you just talk about why you missed on certain guys, your biggest whip you've had. I don't know, it's been kind of fun, like privately to have those conversations publicly. I don't really care. It's just, it's kind of, it's a fun joke to kind of, to kind of have fun with.

I did see some, I, in all seriousness, I saw one, very measured analysis of it. And, and it said that the biggest problem with Killian Hayes is that he's ass. Who said that? Troy Weaver? Or was it on town? Because I'm not, because I'm not, because I'm not sure who makes their decisions there. The doubt is that he's ass. Yeah. That's ass. All right. Detroit, man. Trade it away Bogdanovich, trading away, Alec Berks.

That team is going to be even worse second half of the season now. But those are some good acquisitions for the Nix, especially with that OG in Annanobie. That team's going to be about 500,000 times more fun. Yeah. Did you see Jaden Ivy's Instagram post? Yeah. The second Killian Hayes got waived. No, he posted a picture of him and Cade Cunningham together.

No, he posted a Bible verse as well. He posted a Bible verse. He posted a, it was him and Kate Cunningham standing together. You can't just be looking at photos. You've got to read the captions, Chris. Nice. Come on. The Bible verse is, uh, and let us not grow weary of doing good.

For in due season, we will reap if we do not give up. That's the photo of him and Cade Cunningham. So see you later, Killian. It's me and Cade. So it's Jade and Ivy. That's the, uh, the transnational. of that Bible verse. Galatians 6-9 for what it's

forth. Nice. Golly, Kevin. Galatians. Galatians. Galatians. Let me redo that. Let me give me another one. Galatians. No. You don't get to do that.

You don't get to read it. You grew up in the cell. I didn't. I don't know anything about the Bible. I went to Catholic high school. All right. All right. All right.

This was not a super fun draft day. Trade deadline day. There wasn't big stuff that went on, but there were some things that could move the needle. What? You like gallotons? Galatins. Galatins.

Darryle Moray. There were some things that could move the needle. When you think about trade deadline day, the first team that stands out to you is the Lakers not make. a move for sure. The Warriors not making a move. I think some of these bubble West teams

with the veterans on there that you could come up with a lot of reasons why they should overpay. I think the Warriors did try to overpay. For Alex Caruso, the Bulls are another ass team as well. They didn't want to take an overpayment of Moses Moody and multiple

first round. The Bulls, go tell them, let them know for me. And the Lakers and Warriors, I think they're the two teams that stand up the most with their lack of movement. But ultimately, I do think this deadline, the moves that we did see, that there's a reason why we didn't see any big moves. Nobody was moving big-time players.

So I think for the Lakers, they're just holding on for, like we said, this off-season to make a bigger move this summer. And whether it's Donovan Mitchell or Trey Young or whoever the star is, and then for the Warriors, you know, maybe they'll continue to trend a little bit up with Draymond Green back on an every-night basis. Are the Knicks the big winners or the MADs? I mean, they're both winners in their own respective ways. I think the Knicks considering that OGN and OBB injury right now for the next three-ish weeks, according to Wojj.

That definitely makes that Bogdanovich and Burke's acquisition more helpful in the short term. But I'll tell you what, man, like that Knicks rotation, they got once all their guys are back, including Mitchell Robinson, they got 10 or 11 guys. Playoffs, you're playing eight or nine. I tried to write down lineups. It's tough, right? Brunton O.G. Bogdanovich, Randall, Mitchell, Robinson. And then you've got Birx, DiVincenzo, Hart, precious, and Hartenstein.

And that's not even including McBride. So, yeah, to your point, I mean, it's at least 11, at least 11 that they've got. So, I mean, that is a good, solid, deep team. Also enables you to withstand injury, which they're going to have to. They've been playing without Randall. they've been playing now without OG. They will continue to play without Randall and OG. And you're still able to put out a product that can win on a regular basis when you're this deep.

So certainly it went. And they didn't give up anything that matters. I know. The Knicks retain all of their first round draft picks. Like that's crazy. They get OGN and Obie, Bogdanovich, and Alec Burks and all these guys this season. and they still keep all their first. And because they gave up players, obviously with the OG deal,

and players here too. Quentin Grimes is a good player that the Pistons are getting. We know Grimes can be a 3-and-e guy at a minimum. We know he can do that. But now maybe Detroit can feed him some more touches and on-ball opportunities over the course of the remainder of the season, like the Knicks did over the last 9, 10 games of last season, when Grimes is like a 20-point-per-game guy for a short stretch,

which is why I think for Detroit, that's probably a little bit bit bittersweet. to see Grimes go. But it seems like he just fell out of favor with Tivito and Burks and Bogdanovich had some dynamic scoring next to Brunson, next to Julius Randall once he's back. I think with Devin Chenzo's success on that team, it's kind of a preview of what it could look like for Bogdanovich and Berks with them being a guy who can go off on any particular night.

Well, and with the Grimes case, they got a better player. O. Gennonobie's a better player. and that soaks up. In the Tibbs world, 43 of 48 minutes. So, there's just not, there's not enough wing minutes

to go around once you added Anadobie into the mix. But Grimes is a player for him. He was. They just, man. The other one, so the Knicks standout

because they gave up Grimes, Malachi Flynn. They got off that Fournier contract after Fournier had requested a trade 10 years ago. Archie Diocano a couple seconds, as you mentioned. The Mavs seemed like the other winner to me. I like the Gafford fit a lot.

I like the PJ Washington fit, and obviously the Grant Williams fit did not work. One of their free agent acquisitions that you and I were both a fan of. Reminds me a little of, do you remember when, remember when we kind of thought that it was nice for Cleveland to get Jay Crowder? And then it just didn't work with LeBron. Like Jay Crowder just being a stand in the corner, right, wait for it, the knock down threes kind of guy.

It's not what he was. It's not how you get the best out of him. And also then you've probably, it's just not the best of fits. And I kind of feel that way about how the Grant Williams thing. worked as well, that you're not going to be able to get the best of Grant Williams playing how the type of players they need to go around Luca. But I think they found, you know, we'll see on the PJ Washington shooting front, but certainly Gafford fits that mold of, all right, now I can play off pick and roll and I finish everything at the rim. And I never take

bad shots. Like Dan Gafford knows exactly what he is. and doesn't play outside of it. And so he'll set the screen, rush to the basket, lob it up. I'm going to try to rebound everything, and I'm going to try to finish everything you throw up high in the air. And so having him and lively

for those 48 minutes, whenever they get lively back full force, I think is, I like this for the Mavs. I really did. And I thought this makes them better. The Mavericks came out as big winners today, for sure. You nailed it with Gafford, up Lively once Lively does return. Lively's proven to be injury prone so far. So Gafford might be a

big minutes guy for them. They both fit the lob, the lob construct that Luca loves to have and the pick and roll partner. But P.J. Washington and his own way can be a very interesting two-man guy as well. PJ Washington is good at rolling to the basket. He can short roll, make plays off the dribble, make the right pass, dribble into a finish. Or, I mean, he can be a lob guy, too. He doesn't have the verticality of Lively or Gafford, but he can catch a lob for you. can spot up from three. He's like a 37, 38% guy on open three point attempts. He's going to have a heck of a lot of those with Dallas compared to what he had with

Charlotte. So I think with PJ Washington, there's a chance here. We see the best version of him that we've ever seen on offense because he's not going to be asked to do a lot. And he's going to have a guy serving open shot opportunities for him on a silver platter. So we know he can be a guy that can go off. We know he can get hot and score 30. We've seen him have 40 bombs before. So I think with PJ Washington, he's an upside ad and a guy who raises their floor because of what he can provide offensively and defensively, too, with the versatility. If lively's out and you got Gaffert out there, you can play PJ Washington as more of that versatile perimeter guy, but you can also use him as a small ball

five in spurts. Last year with the Hornets, when he was playing with full throttle effort, playing for a contract, playing for an opportunity, he was way better defensively than he has been this season. He is, I don't think he's been that good defensively watching the Hornets this year. But last year, to me, is more indicative of what the Maverick should be expecting as a guy who is an active at-rim helper. He can provide, you know, shopwalking inside.

He can provide switchability on the perimeter. So Dallas is getting a really interesting two-way piece that for the first time is going to be playing in high-level, competitive basketball games in the NBA. So I'd be, I'd be super, super excited if I were a Mavericks fans today with the two acquisitions they had.

Yeah, me too. And again, not giving stuff up. It's a great, great trades. Yeah, we look at the Knicks. We look at the Mavs, and they're the ones that particularly stand out. We didn't give anything up that has been helping us become what, you know,

what we are right now. and yet we're now able to add these guys into the mix. And so, yeah, good job by both those teams. A couple of them were pretty confusing as we go through the rest of the trade deadline. For what it's worth, that does give a first round pick for the PJ Washington deal. So they did give something. And Grant Williams is a good player. He just hasn't been a great fit with Dallas.

So they did give something. No, no, no. No, I'm not. I'm only talking about like that for this season. Like, what is helping me this season? And if you're bailed on the Grant Williams thing, for sure, that's a future asset. I'm talking about making me better right now. Sure, yeah, yeah, I understand.

Am I losing anything off of my team that is going to hurt me possibly? And in the case of both of those teams, I don't view it. Like, nothing is going to hurt you now. Made down in the future, if the PJ Washington thing doesn't work out, then maybe you end up regretting, giving up the pick. But I don't think they're going to regret giving up Grant Williams because they had already bailed on that quickly and decided that that wasn't going to work. From the Charlotte side of that as well, I mean, it's a good return. We talked on the show last week about how maybe you keep PJ Washington, but I'd be satisfied with that for him in return.

Because Grant Williams could maybe he ends up working out there next to Brandon Miller, La Mello Ball, Mark Williams. I mean, in theory, he does fit all of those guys. So I like it from the Charlotte side and getting a first round pick in the future. I think it comes out as a win for them. Of the other things that happened on the trade deadline, what happened to Buddy Heald's value? He's an upcoming free agent.

Okay. Not one that you can't. I mean, people still trade for upcoming free agents that they want to sign in the off season. It happens literally all the time. Pascal Seaccombe just got traded for. Pascal Seaccombe is an upcoming. becoming free agent. I don't know this for a fact, Chris, obviously. This is something that

have to be deeply back-channeled or it's your wrist tampering, but the Sixers have a ton of cap space. And maybe there's some indication from the Indiana side of things that Philly's the team for him. That's always possible, but that could deflate value there. Maybe Buddy himself said, yeah, you know what, I want to go to Philly. And maybe that'll be revealed that this is the team. He he indicated they're the Pacers that he wanted to go to. Because I do think he was worth more than this. I'm with you there. He's worth more than what they got.

But the second round picks that they got aren't bad necessarily. They get three second round draft picks. Like one of them's an early second rounder, I believe, this year. And I know people talk about, oh, this draft sucks and all that. It doesn't suck in the middle of the draft. So you get an early second via the Raptors this year. you get two distant future seconds, one from the Blazers in 2029, one from the Clippers in 2029. That's a long ways from now, but you do get a early second this year, pretty much

equivalent to first round pick value, in my opinion. I think you can look at it one or two ways. Either he wanted to go to Philly or they just viewed this as like a pretty good value pick and return that they get in the immediate and then two potential mystery boxes in the future. I tend to lean towards the latter that this is actually pretty good value of getting three seconds instead of just one first in a draft where it's not too different if you're 22

or you're 37 with where you're picking. It's certainly possible that word could have gotten around like, hey, don't trade for my guy because I just look at it and I go every year, every team that loses in the playoffs, every one of them, Whether it's the first round, second round,

or when we get to the semifinals and the finals, every one of them, when they come and do their postseason press conference, say we need more shooting. Every one of them. When they lose, they say we need more shooting. And so here's one of the best shooters in the entire NBA. I just figured the value would be greater,

especially if I'm trying to go win a title. like that's what that guy does whatever his faults are the guy can shoot the shit out of the ball and obviously kind of falling out of favor there in in Indiana

and that's fine if they were going to move him I just I just find it hard to believe that that was the best deal they could get for him but let's see the end or there maybe maybe well Chris here's the thing though Here's the thing. Like, you also need the, they got an expiring salary back in Morris.

So not only did they get the early second round draft pick, like what team in the late first round had a first to give and an expiring salary and they had a need for a shooter. You could argue that maybe the Pacers just should have kept healed and went into free agency. But, I mean, for them, I think they look at it. Like we have Benedict Mathuron. We need to invest in him. would we really want to sign a heal the $20 plus million annually?

I think it's a better return for Indiana. Neesmith, too. I think it's a better return for Indiana than it appears on paper, just because I don't think the market was actually out there for him. Yeah, I'm just, again, I will accept that. I just am surprised by that

when every team seemingly needs shooting. And they turned around and went and got Doug McDermott. So they went and got another guy that could shoot. Thank goodness. Thank goodness the Spurs didn't get back T.J. McConnell on that McDermott deal. Bill would have been all over. Why?

Well, because earlier in the year, I was saying to Bill, you're crazy. The Spurs should not trade anything for T.J. McConnell. It's like, don't do it. It would have been a hilarious bandit of getting McConnell. Oh, so you were waiting for the details of that trade. Like, please, God, please let it not be DJ McConnell. Yeah.

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Yeah, Doug McDermott back to the Indian. Look, Doug McDurman can shoot two. Looking for a guy that could knock down shots. A guy can still knock down threes. What do you think about Oklahoma City getting Gordon Hayward? Give up, you know, the Bertons contract, Trey Mann, a couple other assets, but nothing that was, you know,

playing significant minutes for them and acquire Gordon Hayward. Do you like this deal? Gordon Hayward to the Thunder could end up being one of the most important acquisitions of the day. And the reason why is because of the versatility he's going to provide in their rotation. He can either be A, a bench ball handler, a guy behind Chey Gildless Alexander who can help run the offense and facilitate things, or B, he can be that fifth guy on the floor who provides a different look than Josh Giddy. Giddy has improved as a shooter this season, but he's still not a knockdown guy. Gordon Hayward in no way is an elite shooter, but he's a better shooter than Giddy.

So he can still provide some of that connective passing ability that Giddy has provided in that kind of spot-up role, and that next to SGA, next to Chet, next to Jalen Williams, but he can provide better shooting, more experience. And I think that type of versatility and that thunder rotation could boost the types of of lineups that Mark Dagnell can throw out there and the way he can structure his rotations depending on the matchup, depending on how giddy shot develops. Gordon Hayward, this is an opportunity for him to improve his own stock too in this situation because he doesn't need to do a lot to make a positive impact. Here's the one thing I'll say about it is it's not, we talk about this a lot when it comes

to the playoffs. It's not always about the individual numbers that a guy puts up. as much as what he can provide a team regarding the way they play offense. And I look at it and I say, look, if Hayward can stay healthy and he can play minutes for you, the Giddy thing. It's going to be a situation that they get into when they're playing high leverage basketball and people just do not stand out there with Giddy. So now you're more crowded for SGA because my guy is now standing at the free throw line rather than out of the three point line.

And if Gordon Hayward could just be a guy that when he is out there, he has to be guarded all the way out to the three point line, teams aren't just going to be able to cheat off him. Teams aren't going to be able to leave him. Now, that just by him being there and being guarded all the way out there, just by his presence, all of a sudden it makes SGA and everything else they're doing so much easier to manage.

give you for instance last year you saw it when memphis got into the playoffs they're playing against the lakers and they just acted like dylan brooks had sars they're just can't get farther away from him and yet when they brought in luke canard all of a sudden now you've got all these guys now the lane's starting to open up because now everybody you can't have four guys standing with a foot in the lane and then doing a close out that you don't even really want to close out on because you'd rather have these guys shooting. But as long as you've got somebody out there that can space the floor out, it ends up making your best players better.

And so I look at it and say, man, if Gordaer could just stand out there, knock down a reliable amount, but more importantly, just be guarded all the way out to the three-point line, that's where SGA is an impossible one-on-one guard. you've got to make him see two. And to me, at least Hayward makes it so you can play where he only has to see one. And now you're cooking with grease. So I look at it. But he's always hurt.

He's always hurt. It's a perfect acquisition for them because he helps now, but also he's an upcoming free agent. So they have flexibility there. You either can enter the offseason with cap space or you can enter the offseason deciding, yeah, we'll re-sign him. to number X, and then that X number could be the deal that you end up flipping for a star in the future using your big pile of draft picks that you have. That could be a very valuable contract in that sense. So it's like a nice short-term deal for Oklahoma City, but also a potentially very valuable future deal. And I think with then, like I'm working on doing my

power rankings that'll be up soon on the ringer. Okay, C, like championship power rankings, how high would you have them? I have them penciled in currently at third with my championship power. Is that premature with their youth? Can they win a playoff series? Sure. It would be unheard of for the youngest team of basketball to go all the way to the finals. But this team is an outlier in terms of they have an MVP top five candidate in SGA.

They have another all-N-B-A caliber talent in Janeland Williams. They have Chad Holmgren, who's a all-defense. defensive team candidate. They have so much depth and versatility. They have one of the best coaches in the league in Mark Dagnold. Why is it unreasonable at this point? They're one of the best teams in basketball today. They're uniquely positioned to have success

in the postseason with their versatility. Why not have them that high? Because we pay attention to the history of the NBA and the history NBA tells you that you've got to go in and you've got to take your lump. You're going to be going up against veteran teams. You're also going up against a team.

You're going to be going up against teams with the bunch of size. That is going to be the one thing that really can bother them is when it turns into more of a half-court basketball game, there's going to be some volleyball played on the boards against some of these bigger teams because they can't match up size-wise. And so they have to use their advantage. And the other thing is just being through it, being through that level of intensity, being through the game planning for one team and all of your weakness. get exposed. Literally all of your weaknesses.

That's something that has learned because those guys, what happens is you go, you take your lumps, you lose, and then you go back and you say, all right, now when they are focused on me, when it's not a one-off, when they focused on me, here's what I couldn't do. And then you go and fix it. That's why it takes a while.

That's why all of these teams, even the best teams, even the team that we are celebrating still as reigning champions the Denver Nuggets. And we come in here every year. We talk about taking your playoff scars. That's the way it works. So when you say why not, that's why. Because we've seen all kinds of great young teams burst on the scene.

They still have to, they still catch their scars. It's never an easy road. And most of the time, it's pretty tough. off. They might, I mean, I'm not saying they can't win a series, but I'm saying by the time you get to the second round and you're down to four teams. But here's the thing.

I have them behind Denver. I have them behind the clippers. Is it that unusual, like, unreasonable to have them ahead of the Timberwolves, ahead of the sons with all their defensive concerns, ahead of Lakers, Mavericks, Pelicans? I mean, I don't know. I would you really put any of those teams ahead of the Thunder despite their youth in the West?

Again, you're not asking me about where they should be ranked in terms of their strength right now. You're asking me where they should be ranked in terms of their... Yes, yes, I would have them below those. Ahead of all of them? In terms of winning the championship.

All of them. I mean, Minnesota, Phoenix, and Dallas? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yes. I would say those teams have a better chance. And that is not being disrespectful to Oklahoma City.

I mean, look, everybody comes on here. I think it might be. I think you're underrating them personally. I do. To ask them to win a playoff series first? I think. Before I'm a hardcore believer that they can win a title? Totally understandable based on history.

What are we talking about? But do you at least agree that for a young team that has never been through it, They are uniquely deep with top-end talent and with just quality players across the roster with line-up flexibility and with a great coach. Yes, they haven't been through it, but they are unique in that sense. Do you agree with me there, though? For a young team, they are unique in that sense, right? They are unique and they've got a great player for sure. Multiple great players.

Slow down. Slow down on great. They've got an all-NBA player. Did I just see the All-Stars announce that they have three All-Stars and I missed it? So don't on great. Like, let them develop. And here's the thing. You could say all this and you can build it up.

And then if they get the number one seed and the Lakers get eight, you'll pick the Lakers. End of store. No, I wouldn't. You will. No, I wouldn't. Yes, you will. No, I wouldn't. I would not be the Lakers over the first.

Mark my words. Mark my words. If they get one and the Lakers get eight, you will pick the Lakers. I would not pick the Lakers. Wait until it gets there. I might pick the Thunder and go to the finals. Who knows? No, you won't.

I might. I'd consider. We'll see how the season finishes. I might. We talk about concerns that teams have like Clippers health. I'm picking the Nuggets to go to the finals today, but Clippers health. Sun's defense, Timberwolves' endgame offense,

up and down the line. Every team in the West has concerns for the thunder of the concern is they're young. That's the concern. They're young. They don't have experience. How will fatigue build over the course of these young guys? And rebounding.

I told you and rebounding. Like, that's a big thing when it comes to the playoffs. It is. Possessions go down. The other team has the ball more, a lot more when it comes to the playoffs, because they're playing volleyball on the backboards. That's the other thing.

Rebounding would be the biggest concern against the favorite, which is Denver. Against Minnesota, of course, it could be an issue as the series goes seven games, but I still think the Oklahoma City Thunder could beat Minnesota in a series, for sure. I do. They have two of the best ISO scores in the league

and SGA and Jaylon Williams. They have incredible versatility and lineup depth. I think Oklahoma City is a real threat. They don't have Rudy Gobeyer? Of course they don't. There's only one team with Rudy Gobert, the Minnesota Timberwolves, number one defense in the league

with the best defender of this generation. And you just picked them to lose to the team that's never won a... Again, I'm just like, you just got to prove it. They're a great story. Fantastic season. great team. Playoffs are a different deal. You got to go to the playoffs and you're going to win in the playoffs.

I'm with you. I'm with you. I get it. I understand. But it's not like we haven't seen a former Oklahoma City young team go very far before as well. They didn't win at all. They lost. They got destroyed in the finals, actually. But that young Katie, James Harder and Russell Westbrook team did make a deep run. They did make a finals. And it was a preview of their success. to come. They never ended up winning at all, but they did sustain success and have a lot of deep runs and a lot of success together. And so with this OKC team, yes, they have to prove it, but it's not like it's not unheard of for young teams to have deep runs. Okay. It's say it's not unheard of.

It's unheard of to have three fucking MVPs on your team, Kevin. And I know they weren't MVP's yet, but those guys are literally all first ballot Hall of Famers, 15 time All-Stars. 15-time All-Stars. and MVP's. Like, come on. I know. I know. That's what's rare about that. I think you're, I think the guy, I think, I think, I think the guy you're underwriting most here is Jalen Williams. Jalen Williams, if he weren't sharing the floor with SGA so often, would be a 25 plus

point per game guy already. He would be. I'll, I'll say that with full confidence. He would be a 25 plus point per game guy on great efficiency. That guy is awesome. he'd be an all NBA guy if he weren't sharing the floor so much with an MVP caliber guy and he was getting those opportunities. That guy is awesome. Chet already really good. We don't need to rehash this. There'll be plenty of times to talk about Oklahoma City.

But I think that to bring it back to their big deadline acquisition, it was smart for Presti to do this because he gives his team a greater chance of actually exceeding those expectations this year, while also maintaining all of their future flexibility, actually even increasing their flexibility with that Hayward deal. So Oklahoma City, one of the winners of the deadline for damn sure. All right. Milwaukee got Pat Bev.

What a big nothing deal. This is. I don't understand why. Like, he was so ingrained with Philly, though. Like always pumping up Maxi, always pumping up Embed. Always like being their little Chihuahua, you know, and getting in the mix, getting in people's faces, and I mean,

him having to smooth it over with Damian Lillard is hilarious. Truly hilarious. Because it was just two weeks ago that they were at each other's neck. And obviously, they're the clip that was going around

everywhere of Damian Lillard saying, I'll beat your ass. So they got some smoothing over to do with that. But you don't care about that deal at all. You think it's a big nothing? I mean, look, for the Sixers side of things, they could not score anytime Beverly was on the floor. Kevin's going to be in the mix in the playoffs, Kevin. He's going to do something. Yeah, Beverly, the Sixers couldn't score anytime Beverly was on the floor.

I understand moving off from him, campaign provides better shooting, better ball handling. He's a better fit, in my opinion. He's not a dog like Patrick Beverly. But, I mean, ultimately, I think it's a better fit for them. And it's also a better fit for the bucks. They get a dog on their team. they get a better point of attack defender who can provide some energy. The concern I'd have for the buck side of things is that Doc Rivers sure as hell does love playing veteran players. This is just another guy playing ahead of Andre Jackson,

who's better than Patrick Beverly already in terms of talent level. Beverly is just more proven, more experienced. But I hope Doc eventually gives Andre Jackson some opportunities. I think he's fully deserving of him. How about the sons? Ed Royce O'Neill. I saw you like that deal. And then they added our buddy

David Roddy from Memphis in another deal. So they added some wings there to go along with Booker, KD, and Beal. I like the Royce O'Neill acquisition. He's an upgrade. It's kind of a good consolidation trade for them. And they keep

this year a little as well. But Royce O'Neill, he's a solid three-point shooter. He's very good at attacking close-outs. Hopefully he can get closer to what he was defensively, in Utah is a solid overall defender. He's not great. He's not a stopper by any means. I don't think defense really matters for the Sons at all.

They just wanted to better fit offensively. I think I'm sure Vogel will talk about the defense O'Neill provides. It doesn't matter. It's about optimizing that offense and further increasing their efficiency on that end of the floor, creating more half-court defensive opportunities, the more you score. And I think Lorye O'Neill helps fit as a glue guy in that situation. And with David Roddy, do you think he does add something defensively to that team? Because shooting-wise, that is not panned out for him.

He's a solid, smart player, but he's not a shooter by any means. But defensively, does he? No. No, you don't think so? I've been super disappointed with the shooting because, no, no, no. I do think, like, I think he's, again, a dog, a guy that's going to play hard, a guy that's going to take every assignment he gets, you know, super seriously, a guy that's going to crash the boards.

I think he's actually good to augment stars. We talk about guys having to be connectors in the league. I think that his situation, not unlike probably the Grant Williams one or the Jay Crowder one we talked about before, which is, you know, a place like Memphis is built for drive in, touch the paint, kick it out to threes, right? That's how you're going to exist around John Morant. and it's like, and I wish he could have turned into a guy that you kick it out and he gets that

butt naked three and nails it, but he doesn't. He misses it and he misses all of them, like, routinely. And I do think that in Phoenix, you don't have to do any shooting. You don't have to be the one shooting the ball, right? You go and you set the screens and you dive to the basket, you do the dirty work, and you take some kind of assignment. The guy's always going to play hard. The guy's always going to play with energy. And I hope that he started hitching on his shot this year. We've seen this happen, and I know you're big on noticing this.

It started in Summer League this year, and he just couldn't make a shot. And he's got this hitch in it now. And this guy was a great, great score in college. But hard-nosed player, great teammate, and I hope he can get the shot figured out so he can, you know, fulfill his destiny because it's just hard to be a wing in the NBA that's not reliably knocking down threes. I do think on that team, though, the shots aren't a problem. So you just got to do all the dirty work. You got to go in there and be like Royce O'Neill, and you got to do all that other stuff. And I do think he'll do whatever's

asked of him. I don't think he's going to be. You know, the other guy that Memphis moved, and I talked to you about him yesterday, Xavier Tillman. I think he will help Boston. I do. He, again, not a guy that's going to bury a bunch of threes, but Celtic take 53s. You know, it's not like you can't make them. He can make some of them.

Some don't need any more three-point shooters. Yeah, I know. But like, he, he'd been called into action a couple different times. and even has started playoff games and is a really good defender, another good connector kind of guy. And I think there's guys in the league that can play 12 minutes and be productive.

They go in there and they get you four points, and they'll grab you three rebounds, and they get you a steal, and they may help you change momentum a little bit, get you block, something like that. And then there's some guys, if you give them eight to 12 minutes, minutes, they can't do shit.

But if you give them 25, 30 minutes, then they actually produce something. They get the flow of the game or whatever. Like, he's a kind of guy that no matter when you put him in, he will go in and produce. Like, he's ready to play at all times and will go in and affect something. You will notice him when he gets in the game. He'll do something, whether it's a rebound, block, a steal, a pass, something. and they needed more size. They needed more, you know, especially, you know,

Porzingis and Horford insurance, right? So I actually really liked that deal for Boston. I think Tillman will help them. I do. Tillman's like another tool for Joe Musula to use at certain situations. He could be a Horford backup. He can be that switchable, versatile defender that they need. And or they can turn their cornet if they need a shooter or they can turn to

you know, Keda, if they want their rebounding and room protection. They have different guys as backups behind Horford and Porzingis to give them different looks depending on the situation. I'm trying to look and see if there's anything we're going to get yelled at. Kelly Olenich. Kelly Olenick to the Raptors. That's one.

Kelly Olenic and Iqaji to the Raptors for Kelly Ellison. People are going to say, why didn't you talk about the Olenic deal? Somebody's going to say that, really? Yeah, I mean, I think this one's an interesting deal because the Raptors gave up a first round pick for a 32, soon to be 33-year-old

center that's going to be a free agent and Egbaji who has not been good offensively for the jazz. He's a hustling defender. He brings solid defense, especially in transition, but offensively he hasn't panned out. And I think for the Raptors, it's an interesting deal in the

sense that it touches on the quality of the draft. They didn't want multiple first round draft picks this year. So I look at it like they're kicking the can forward in terms of value. And sense that they probably hope that they can get something more out of Iqbaji that they maybe feel they can fix him offensively. And then with Olinic, he's from Canada. I'm sure they feel

some level of confidence he'll want to resign with the Raptors and sign a contract there. And maybe Kelly Olinick could continue to maintain his value as a guy who could eventually net them a late first or an early second retaining the value of this 2024 first that they're giving up. So I'm not saying that it's a deal without risk for the rappers or Leninic could leave. Abaji could end up busting and that 2024 pick could end up turning into a really good player. But I get it from Toronto's perspective to do that. And for Danny Ains and the jazz side of things, yeah, I do get it from. You don't like it from the Toronto side at all?

They did this shit with, they did it with Yaka Portal last year. Like, what are you doing giving up picks for these centers that don't move the needle for you? No, but they already have a pick in the top 20. They might retain their own first, depending on where it goes. It's top six protected going to San Antonio. Do you want three first round draft picks this year? Probably you don't want three. You still have one or two.

You don't have to exercise all of them tomorrow. Of course not. You can get to the draft. It's still move stuff. Well, Lennox is a solid player, man. And Ogbaji has shown plenty defensively. He just hasn't paned out off. offensively.

Yo, if Danny Ains is trading me him, I don't want him. Danny Age just got to look at him. It's not like Danny hasn't been wrong, though. Danny's been wrong too. Everybody's, everybody's been wrong. Is there somebody that Danny Aange traded away

that it came back to bite him that I don't remember? Yeah, Kendrick Perkins for Jeff Green. Okay. Well, that's a good one. Jeff Green was kind of weird. I think he's still playing, isn't he? He is. He's for the Rockets.

He just won a championship with a nugget. He still played. Yeah. So, was he wrong? It was wrong at the time. It was wrong at the time, considering, you know, injuries happen at their center rotation, and they really could have used perk.

But that deal always comes to mind first for the mistakes. He offered four first-round draft picks. That's the one that came back to haunt you. I mean, I don't know. He offered four first-on-draft picks to go get Justice Wins. low the deal than it happened. Yeah. You're right.

Sometimes it's the deals he don't make. I'm not saying he's infallible. I'm just saying if he looked at this guy and then is like willing to get rid of him already, I'd be worried. Like why doesn't he want him? Yeah, but I mean, I get it. I get it, but sometimes you know you're giving up. Like, like, Baji's only 23 right now.

He turns 24 in April on 420. Just looked up his birthday. he's a little bit older. I'm sure on Danny's side of things, he might still think Bogi can turn into a good player, but he'd rather have the draft pick and the versatility on draft night. Maybe there's somebody he has his eye on come June.

And he wants that versatility. He didn't pick him. He was part of a trade, but he didn't pick him. So he's not married to that talent evaluation that you sometimes can be, where you just want to keep believing in the guy that you originally evaluate. So he was part of that Cleveland deal, right?

They picked him. If I'm not mistaken. What was the date of that trade, though? That was... What, that was the... Okay, yeah, that's right. Yeah, that was September. Yeah, he wasn't...

Marketing and deal, right? You're right. Yeah, it was the marketing deal, but I was just... I forgot the date of the deal that actually happened. The draft, obviously, is in June. The trade happened on September 1st. So, not like, it's not like it was a draft night deal.

where he dictated who was being selected. Yeah. So he just, that was a Cavs pick back then. I think we pretty much covered every trade day. This trade deadline stunk, Kevin. I know,

it really did. Monty Morris to Minnesota. Yes. Fine. And it gives him a backup guard. Gives him a backup guard. Dinwiddie's going to be waived because Schroeder and that young went to the nets.

Dinwiddie to the rappers. Dinwiddie, maybe he signs with the Lakers. You don't want an Avi. going to the Grizzlies. I was right about him. I told you during the off season. I didn't buy his three-point jumper.

That was spot on. This is a homecoming, dude. Jaden Springer to the Celtics. That's an interesting one for the Sixers. You know what an Abbey, a big welcome back video, the whole thing. Yeah, that'll be nice. He's coming back to a little silver line for the second half.

Coming back to where it all began. I've got to go, I'm going over to the arena tonight because I'm going to watch the Grizzlies play against a Bulls. I'm going to go find a Bulls executive. And I'm going to tell him, Kevin O'Connor said, you guys, you guys are disgusting. They are. You're absolutely disgusting. It's not even, like, if I were Arturus, aka their GM, I'd quit.

I'd rather be an assistant somewhere else than run that team. You might, you know, like, you're not in a situation where you're empowered to make the moves that you think are best for the franchise. The Risendorfs, they're the problem. They're fine with mediocrity. The Risendorfs are the people dictating all, like, we're not trading the Ellis-Truso for multiple first round. draft picks and Moses Moody. They're the ones unwilling to move Demar de Rosen, who's a free agent in a handful

of months. They're the ones trading Wendell Carter and a future first that turns into Franz Wagner to go get Nicola Vucovich. They're the people that want to be mediocre and just sell a couple first round playoff tickets, but you're not even good enough to make the playoffs. That's the problem. It's the Risendorf.

So if I were AK, I'd quit and go work somewhere else. You think he has done, he hasn't made a trade. What did Zach Graham put up? in 30 months. By the way, it's Reinsdorf, the Risenorf.

I was like, what? I don't know. I don't know how to pronounce anything, dude. But my, might as well end the far the same way. You just destroyed the guy's legacy.

The Risendorf. Jerry Rinesdorf is like, is he talking about me? Why does he hate me so much? The Risendorfs. The friggingerrists. Dorff's. Jerry Ridesdorf,

I hope you're listening to this. He'd be like, who is this guy talking about? He's probably reading his Bible from the book of Galatins. What is Galatians anyway? All right, well, this was a dud of a trade deadline.

I certainly wish we were talking about more things that we're going to move the needle. Big winners, Knicks, Mavs, maybe some of these other stuff will show up. You know, Kevin thinks it's a sneaky, really good move for Gordon Hayward with Oklahoma City. And then what? I guess big losers are the Rising Dorbs and Lake. And Galatians. Lakers and Warriors who have two of the, Lakers Warriors, two of the greatest players in the history of the world, neither of which.

properly equipped them for battle when it comes to playoff time. Is that fair? That's who you started off by being disappointed with. It does suck that they don't have the goods. Curry or LeBron probably do not have the goods to be able to go and compete at the highest level. It's really crazy at their age. It's too bad.

All right. Kevin, it's always a pleasure. Thank you to our executive producer Jesse Lopez. always and I will talk to you next week. Have a good night, Chris. Enjoy the game. Pulls our ass. Must be 21 plus in present in select states. Fandul is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with the Kansas Star

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