The Mismatch - Biggest Surprises From the NBA Season So Far

Episode Date: January 8, 2021

Chris and Kevin take a look at how the COVID-19 protocols are working after Seth Curry’s positive test (5:07) and at the massive leak from the Hawks’ locker room reported by The Athletic (13:14). Then they get into the biggest surprises of the NBA season so far, including the Brogdon-and-Sabonis-led Pacers glow-up (31:43), Lou Dort’s stellar 3-point shooting (37:43), Julius Randle’s Knicks (47:14), and more. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, this is Kevin O'Connor on today's episode of The Mismatch with Chris Vernon and I. We hit on all the latest news, including some drama in Atlanta involving Trey Young, a positive COVID test for Seth Curry and the Philadelphia 76ers. Then we got into some of the surprises across the league, including the Pacers being maybe not just good, but a great team, as well as Lou Dort shooting over 40% from three and a whole bunch else like the Nakes and the magic really excelling early on in the season. All that's coming up next. Welcome to The Misfatch. I'm Chris Vernon. And Joindemey does every Friday from the Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, A.K.K.O. Clymer, Kevin O'Colmer, Kevin O'Candler, Kevin O'Candem. Kevin O'Candemones. Kevin.

Verdo! What's up this Friday? First Friday show in a couple of weeks. I miss seeing you twice a week. I know it's been odd because of Christmas and because of the new year. We have only been doing one show a week. But we are back on this Friday. after last night, I went to a basketball game.

I might have watched one of the worst basketball games I've ever seen in my life. The Cavaliers versus the Grizzlies with none of their guys playing. And I'm only mentioning this because we had joked in one of our shows, the who is that guy? And it was Nathan Knight from Atlanta. And there's been a couple others, Mike Mulder, when he comes in the game. Last night, oh, I had two of them. I had two of them.

You had to go to the program. Dean Wade. Oh, D. Wade. Dean Wade. Not D. Wade. Dean Wade. Unfamiliar with his work. And who was the other one?

I think Jemar Sanders, I think was the other one. One of them played at Penn State. The other one played at Kansas State. Dean Wade. And so I had two of the go-to-the-program moments last night. You mean, Lamar Stevens. Lamar Stevens. I'm sorry.

I said Jamar. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And Penn State was really good last year before the whole thing got shut down. So he's probably the reason. Anyways. I mean, it's tough not seeing Garland and sexton.

But you did get to see that absolutely just exquisite offensive possession by Andre Drummond gets the ball at the high post and he pauses for 10 seconds, does nothing until he crosses over, drives into the paint and throws up a miraculous shot that didn't go anywhere. Yes. Anybody who was on NB. It went backwards. I saw that.

I wish we could, yeah, went backwards. Anybody can go find this on Twitter. I posted at least I will get to tell my children I saw this. You were there for it. I was in the arena for this. One of the most amazing offensive possessions of all time. And I got to witness it with my own eyes.

I will tell you, just real quickly, because that game was crap. It was cool to see a Koro in person. Oh, yeah. I like Kim, Kevin. that box score is not going to show you know kind of what he did but that kid played

39 minutes and in the last minute of the game really won the game for them with a chase down block that he pinned and then a great cut which was a great pass by Drummond which kind of sealed the game for the Cavaliers but it's the first time I had ever seen Okoro playing

in person and I was I was mega impressed I mean he there's a lot of stuff there where you can see there's so much about that about him that you like and especially kids at hustle like that, you know, you figure out the rest because that he plays hard. Yeah, I mean, for him, it's it's the same stories before the draft.

The carer needs to get better. He needs to prove that he had the jumper, but he checks every other box. He checks the defensive box, the intelligence, you know, box with cutting, feel for the game passing. I mean, it goes all down the line, check, check, check, check, except for shooting. And for Cleveland, that's kind of representative of their issues this year. They're a top defense in the league so far, a bottom offense in the league so far. Part of it's Garland sexton being out right now.

They got to get everybody back. But ultimately, Cleveland is, you know, trending upward. It's good to see these encouraging young players for that franchise. And. And Larry Nance. Didn't miss a shot. I was like, I was like, yo, I was like, yo, this dude has to miss or I'm going to hear about this. Yeah, Larry Nitz is good.

Four for four from three. when did that happen? One of those underrated players in basketball, dude. Is that Larry Nans or Larry Bird out there? He was bombat him. Hope Bill Simmons isn't listening. He hears that. He's like, that's blasphemous.

Oh, stop it. Bill's already, he is, he is so sky high on Peyton Pritchard that there's nothing. There's nothing he can say to him. No, nothing can take him down. All right, let's get to some of the stories of the morning, which are, extremely interesting. Okay, first things first. We have our first real coronavirus positive test of which we are aware about with a significant player.

And that is Seth Curry from the Philadelphia 76ers last night. They had a pretty dismal effort against the Brooklyn Nets who were very short-handed with the absence of Kevin Durant and with Kyrie Irving. But the bubble nets, they're back. Yeah, the bubble nets. Seth Curry tested positive. And now, you know, I don't know. We're just going to have to wait for all this news to come out. Now, we're recording this on Friday morning.

News comes so fast and furious. But they were able to get Curry away rather quickly and isolate him. And then, you know, they clearly played the game. But, you know, this is one of those things where it's not like everything that could come from this is going to happen within 10 hours. And so we're just going to have to wait and see on that. I will tell you that I am supposed to see the bubble nets in person tonight as they flew to Memphis to play in a game that is going to be played in Memphis. And I've been kind of checking throughout like, hey, is there a game going on tonight or what? because I think everything's just kind of wait and see and hopefully tests come back negative.

But now you're in a odd situation where you have had a positive test on a team with other players that were clearly in very close proximity to him for some time. And you don't know how this thing can spread. So I don't, it's scary. Yeah. And I believe I was a Ramona Shelburne last night who reported that Joelle M.B. You know, he was next to Curry, you know, before the game. And he plans to self-quarantine with his family until he knows whether he has it or doesn't. He has a three-month, you know, old son.

And, you know, we, I remember back in August and Bede had like the hazmat suit. And he was dead ass serious about taking everything seriously. It wasn't, it wasn't for the lulls. It wasn't a joke. It was serious. Yeah, man. It's tough. And obviously we had the Celtics this morning with three people, you know, who.

with contact tracing, Robert Williams, Grant Williams, and Tristan Thompson as well. So Boston is going to be without three of their bigs for at least the next week. But they will be with the one that matters most. You know what this means. You know what it means? Tell us,

tell the listeners, Chris. It's taco time. Yes. It is taco time in Boston. I hate that these guys are out with the contact. tracing and they're going to be out for some amount of time. I don't want to make light of that. But in their absence, there are no more big guys on that team. When you take Robert Williams, Tristan Thompson and Grant Williams off that team, who else is over six nine?

Daniel Thice. Tice and Taco. But that's it. I bet you're going to see a lot of small ball, a lot of shemio jolay in there for the Celtics this next year. I would be more, I would be so mad at Brad Stevens if he did that. Let Todd. eat. Come on, man. I want to see Taco fall in. I'd like to see Taco play a little bit more, too. Anyways, look, this is now, this is now concerning because we made it through about the first 10 games of the season, you know, relatively unscathed. We had the Kevin Durant, you know, having to sit out for four games, but now we have a real positive test by a significant

player who was who was on a team and with the games you know this ain't like the NFL where it's like you got a week to figure it out and then maybe we'll just play it on a Tuesday right like these teams are playing you know in some cases 17 19 games in the month of January a week of missing games could be four or five games yeah you got to try to figure out how to reschedule it so honestly like there's no way for us to be able to comment totally because we don't know how the NBA is going to handle this going forward. But

hopefully by this afternoon, we'll get some level of clarity. I mean, do you let these teams just keep playing other teams? I don't know. So far that seems to be the case. Yeah. So far. I mean, ultimately, with like the Seth Curry positive test and playing the game anyway, with him isolating, it's the type of thing where

for the NBA, this is a challenge. It's a different unique type of challenge compared to the NFL because like you said, the time between games. But for the NBA thus far with the contact tracing, they do seem to be taking seriously the possibility of a positive case before it's a positive case. You get one of them saying they're like they're being very proactive with saying guys need to sit out a week. And that's not something that we saw as much, you know, from the NFL. it's like very strict rules when it comes to that. Like if Michael Porter Jr. out an additional 10 days, you know?

So for the NBA, they're managing it. And we'll see how this continues moving forward. I'm a little bit surprised we haven't gotten more cancellations already. You know, really just the one, the Houston game, right? Exactly. Opening night for them. That's it for cancellation so far. I thought there'd be a couple more or a handful more the first couple weeks,

but they're having been. And we'll see over the coming, you know, month or so how this continues to develop. But hopefully, you know, fingers crossed that for all these guys, it's just, you know, being cautious and that there aren't further positive cases.

Yeah. Well, and this will have a profound effect, like say for the Celtics, you know, now you've got three guys out for a week. Yeah. Right?

That's big. It's big. And that's why before the season, like, when we're talking about what we're expecting from these teams, this is why, you know,

to have the play in tournament. is important because even for a team like the Grizzlies, you know, with an injury, you know, or whether it's a positive COVID case, whatever, or just contact tracing, whatever it is, something that knocks players or a player

or multiple players out for an extended period of time, whatever the factor may be, it's good that more teams are going to have an opportunity late in the season, and have something to care about because ordinarily, out for a week or two weeks, especially in a shortened season with only 72 games instead of 82, one week out could screw you.

Like that could be it. You can be done for the year just because of that week off. But at least now those rules, you know, with the playing tournament, give more teams an opportunity. So that's a good thing because for Memphis, you know, John Morant gets back. Obviously, again, not a COVID case, but an injury. But it's great that once he gets back, once Darren Jackson's going to still get a chance.

Still get a chance to get it and make a push. Something to root for fans. Yes. So for somebody like Boston, you know, it's more about seating and all like that. Yeah, I mean, it might be that you have to play Miami in the first round instead of Orlando, right? Like, I mean, you might. Yeah, yeah. Because the difference between the two seed and the four seed might be a game or two. Orlando, the current two seed in the east. That's right. Oh, no, I was saying, yeah, Boston would be the seven. I was saying Boston be the seven. Orlando is, of course. If Boston were the seven, they'd have to play in that playing tournament. I have to win one to get in for the seven. But, um, I was saying Boston. You know, yeah, it's the type of film. And that is like when you're, especially, it's who you lose. I mean, they're losing all three of their big guys.

Yeah. That's tough. You know what I mean? Like usually you at least got your backup guy available. But when you're losing all three, so they're going to have a- You do have Daniel Tice, though. You do. You do have Daniel Tice.

There was a big story this morning that came out in the athletic, extremely well reported by Chris Kersner and Sam Amick. And this was about a Hawks film session that saw John Collins take on Trey Young call him out in the film session. And in the interest of not just paraphrasing, I will say that John Collins, this is from the article, John Collins is a fourth year big man who just weeks before bet on himself in a big way during his failed extension talks with the Hawks, shared his unfiltered and unhappy views about the way franchise centerpiece Trey Young was. running the offense. According to three sources who were either in the session

or had knowledge of what was said, Collins raised several issues about the way these hawks were functioning with Young at the helm. And it was about needing to get into offensive sets more quickly to limit all those early shot clock attempts

that leave his teammates on the outside looking in, shared his desire to be more involved and expressed a desire for more ball involvement and flow on offense. Now, okay, you read this and it's very salacious, and so, you know, you do get that. It's one of those things that is a fun read because you're getting behind the curtain on something that's going on. A couple of things. Number one, it is always difficult when you have a bunch of different, and this is what the Hawks are facing this year.

You have a bunch of different agendas at stake. You have a player like Collins who is playing for it. Yeah, he wants to get paid. This needs to be a big season for him. This needs to be a big season for him. And so what is most important to John Collins? You would love to say the team winning and the team winning a lot of games. But when you turn down the amount of money John Collins turned down,

you better have a great season because you're betting on yourself and you know that that's part of it. You also have a coach and a general manager that clearly made moves because they don't. know if they're going to have their jobs going forward. And so they're really in win now mode. So you have get contract now mode. You have win now mode. You have all kinds of stress just throughout the situation, right? And that's what happens when people don't feel safe in their jobs or and maybe they don't

feel safe because they don't have a contract going forward. And that is the case with both the coach and the management and one of the big time players on the team. I am unsurprised by this. Obviously, Trey Young didn't make that much of it, but I mean, the other thing is that this getting out is not good. This is not good. This is not happening.

No, it is not good that it leaked from at least three different people. It leaked. So that means you got a lot of people saying, can you? believe this shit? To report, I mean, like, they're telling the story to people, right? And the good teams, they have these meetings and they keep them in house, right? And they, they had a meeting. They had a film session that ended up getting out to the public rather quickly.

And it's, it's just, you know what happens? Because I covered something like this a couple years ago. I don't know if you remember this, but Garrett Temple. and Omri Kasby got into a fight in the locker room, like literally a fight after a game. And it was reported everywhere, right? And the breach of trust that was, like the locker room can never be the same.

It just can't. It just can't. I mean, it's only natural. It's only natural, even if it's like a rogue agent. Even if it's a rogue agent, you can't help but just look around that locker and be like, there's people in here talking about,

about what's going on behind closed doors. They're talking about me. They're talking about what Cliff Capella said. They're talking about what John Collins said. That should stay in-house. You know, obviously credit to, you know, Sam and Chris for their outstanding reporting. Like, because that is like a very intriguing reed that they put over at the athletic

about this locker room and this situation. Because for weeks, and I'm sure they've heard this too, especially Chris. He's there in Atlanta. He covers that team. He's on that beat. You know, there's been rumblings for a long time. The guys just don't like playing with Trayon.

They don't like playing with him, that they question his decision making. They question how ball dominant he is. For a guy, Trey Young, you know, 5-11, 170 pounds. He, Trey Young could go down one of two lanes. He could go down to James Hardin Lane if he wants to. Or he could go down the Steph Curry lane. And it seems like he leans towards that James Hardin Lane. And you know how much I love Hardin.

you know how much I do, Chris. We've argued back and forth about him over the years, but to me, Trey's best path is the Steff path, where he's thriving off ball. He's not an elite level shooter like Steph is, but he's very good, coming off screens,

running off handoffs, and instead what we've seen is him being stagnant, just standing off ball oftentimes. And that frustrates me. It really does. Because Trey, we know how magnificent he is as a passer. the shot creation abilities that he has to distribute the ball around the floor.

And what he can do is a score himself now drawing fouls at a near league high rate. It's, I mean, like it or not, he's getting to the line. He's got to be able to blend both of those sides of his games in order to fit with teammates and create a culture where everybody likes to play. Because what's happening right now

is not going to work in the way that it needs to, especially because he's a zero on defense. You don't want to hear this? You don't want to hear this. But this is why I fight all the time about the tanking bullshit. Kevin, you turn the keys over to these kids and you just say, do whatever the f you want. Now it's time you've got a real team around you. Those habits don't die.

They don't. It is so hard to get it back. And I've seen it ruin career after career after career. when you play in meaningless game after meaningless game and you start putting up 30 points a night and while losing 60 games and now you've got real players around you and that's not how you can play anymore.

That doesn't equate to winning. That equates to your success, but it doesn't equate to winning. And it is so hard to get the genie back in the bottom, right? That is the difference with Hardin. Hardin played in a team concept right off the bat when he came into the lead. It was very, very, very good off ball.

I just think it, I think it is so hard for these guys that when they are just turned over, they can just do whatever they want to do, then they lose the sense of what, like, yeah, you can do that, man, and you can average 30 points a game, but is it going to equate to winning and having good chemistry and this team being able to succeed? And so I think that when you're put into a situation where you can do whatever you want to do whenever you want to do it. And I remember a scout told me this and I said this on this show. This is because I was torn on Trey. I didn't really know.

He said, if you're going to turn everything over to him, you're going to get that guy. He goes, but look at the Oklahoma guys. They're not happy. And the team wasn't good either. No, and the team's not good. And he said, but that's what you're going to have to do to get that. are you willing to do that, right? Because he's not just going to be a guy that fits in, you know,

and plays with everybody else. And I'll never forget that guy saying that because now it's like, I'm watching this play out and you see teammates discontent. And you see that like, hey, it's good for him, but is it good for everybody else? And you are, I mean, it's 10 games into the season, Kevin, for goodness sakes. And that, you know, like, is it good for everybody else? You know, part of me thinks John Collins, I understand his frustrations.

There's different agendas at work here. Like he said, he wants to get paid. He's an upcoming free agent. But Trey dominating the ball the way he does is part of what makes things work there. It's part of why things have worked, especially because right now, Gallinari's out. Rondo has missed games. Bogdanovich just struggles.

You know, these other shot creators that you have on this roster, either haven't been there or haven't produced. And Trey is that guy. And what we saw in that game earlier this week is a player who was giving John Collins what he wanted, pass first, not looking to score quite as much. And that's the result you got. Like you do need Trey to dominate the ball to an extent. What I would love to see is just a blend of the off ball movement, of the cutting,

of coming off screens, you know, relocating after giving it up, yourself open. I want to see that. And I still want to see the guy who can create on the ball in pick and roll in isolations. Like, you got to blend both. Well, and you know what, you know what happens. And that's the issue. You know what happens here. What happens here is John Collins gets traded. Probably. I mean, make no mistake about it. Let's be, let's be honest here. I mean, I mean, you know, I've heard for months even before free agency that he was a guy that, you know, is involved in trade discussions. Right. And so, no, no shocker there. Like, no, surprise, a guy they didn't resign, that they didn't give a contract to. No surprise that he's involved

in trade talks. It's just a matter of who would want them. And they want to keep Tray Young happy. Sure. You know what I mean? There's a lot. Look, look, dude, we've talked about this for months. That Atlanta, they, they have, they are under pressure coach and GM to make the playoffs. That's why they made the moves that they did. And they also hired Nate McMillan to be a lead assistant there. There was all that talk earlier in the week about the Kings, parents, their dads, like and tweet, sweet and stuff. Trey Young's dad liked the tweet earlier this week saying we all count in the days McMillan takes over.

Stay strong. He liked the tweet about that. And so Lloyd Pierce, a guy who already under pressure from ownership, GM, Travis Schlank, under pressure from ownership to get wins now. The father of Trey Young liking tweets about wanting a new head coach. It's a different world now,

wouldn't it? A lot of issues. A lot of issues. world now when the dads are on social media. Whose dad did you know about when we were kids? Like seriously? Yeah. Nobody.

You say that like you're not 40 years older than me. No, I know. When we were kids. But I mean, even when you were a kid, did you know about people's? No. Not at all. Not one bit. It's social media.

That's all it is. I'm sure it existed. I'm sure, but it wasn't like the microphone wasn't there. That's the difference. That's right. They have an outlet now. Heard heard about it. People follow them and they have an outlet.

Yes, exactly. To the point where when they, when Trey Young's dad likes something. Yeah. There were a couple other tweets too. That was the main one I saw. Yeah. And ultimately, dude, this,

this Hawks team, they get a lot of talent. Yes. They get a lot of talent. And to me, I think, you know, John Collins is a little bit wrong here.

Trey needs to do what he does. But to me, me, there needs to be a blend. I feel like I'm playing a mediator here. If I were in that locker room, there needs to be a blend. And unless that blend occurs, which is up to Tray Young, it's up to Tray Young to take on that responsibility and commit to evolving. If he's willing to do that, then Atlanta can thrive. If he continues to play this way, I think you're going to have more issues. And by the way, this relates a lot to what we talked about with the Warriors, right? With Steve Kerr and Stefan Curry earlier in the week or last week,

whenever it was, and I wrote the story on Monday about, you need to have Steph more on the ball, more ball dominance from Steph mixing the old with the new, with the off ball brilliance that you had with those Andrew Godala, Sean Livingston, Andrew Bogot Warriors teams, the David West,

all these guys who were smart, genius playmakers that could get him the ball. Need to blend both. Kerr had that, you know, Kerr hates pick and roll. I mean, he doesn't like running much pick and roll.

And he says because, you know, where they feel like they're not contributing. And they feel like they're not part of the offense or just standing in the corner. He wants to get guys involved with movement, with cutting, with passing. And again, to me, that's what needs to happen with Trey's a blend. And look at the Warriors with what has worked over the years. You're not going to have a motion offense with all that fantastic passing.

But Trey needs to see that and take a little bit of that and bring it into his game. And otherwise, otherwise, man, I'm not sure where this goes with Atlanta. By the way, you watch it. I'm not sure, man. By the way, you watch it with the Warriors, too. You know, and Steph's obviously been out of this world. But I was watching the other night, and it's the difference between,

we talked about, like, how many high IQ guys they had and how many guys they had from that had won, you know, throughout their years in the NBA. And again, I'm not saying this as a disservice to the players as much as I am to the situations in which we talk so many times about what you come up in. Kelly Ubra and Andrew Wiggins have played in like, you can count on your hand the amount of games that have mattered that they've ever played in in their life. You know what I'm saying? Like they just spent six years doing whatever they wanted to do.

And now they're reading and reacting with Steph Curry and Dremont Green. And you can see Dremont's like visible frustration. Just about like, hey, like typically I've had a guy for the last 10 years that cuts, you know, when he sees me get this ball at the elbow, right? And it was also, it's the benefit for James Wiseman, right, in learning right off the bat how to play with those guys and every single night competing. One last thing on the Tray Young thing, this is when I got really, like, it's one thing to, like, say, okay, this happened in front of everybody, right?

Like this moment of, you know, I don't know, what do you say? 15, 20 people could have feasibly known about what took place in this locker room with John Collins of Tray Young. But then if you read deeper in the article, the part about Capella, okay, Clint Capella, a 26-year-old who was acquired from Houston at last season's trade deadline had a similar act unfold before the Dwight Howard James Hardin era in Houston. Sources say Capella's message focused on that cautionary tale, how Howard's demands for the ball along with Hardin's reluctance. to give it up more freely, widen the divide between them and led to collective failure. This kind of push and pull between talented wing players and big men is as old as the league itself, but Capella clearly saw no reason to let history repeat itself. Blah, blah, blah.

Okay, the hell do we know the private conversation between Claypella and Tray Young? Like, this is crazy. This is crazy. Great reporting bad leaks. I mean, if you're Atlanta, I'd be extremely worried about the leaks. the fact stuff gets like the fact stuff like this gets out, these specific details, that's scary. What? It's one thing.

If it's, you know, you can look around and you can play the game of clue and you can try to figure out, all right, who's talking, who's running and talking to the reporters? You know, there's 20 people in here. It's a moment where John Collins starts yelling at Trey Young in front of everybody. You can see how that gets out. This is a very specific conversation about. a very precise instance of which Clint Capella went through in Houston. Like, what are we doing here?

How do? How is that being reported? You know what a lot of, you know what a lot of NBA people do? People who work with the league. They like to play like, who's the source? Yes.

Because I was like, like, NBA people know, like, who knows what reporters, who, who talks, who doesn't. And so I guarantee like in every NBA slack or group text this morning, they're talking. talking about which agent connected to these players or coaches, which player or coach themselves is the one doing all this talking. Like, that's the game. NBA people are playing this morning.

It's just fun to think about. This is not a hard one because I'm going to read you a stanza. Only this time. This is after the film session, okay? Only this time. It was Hawks big man, Clint Capella, who decided to weigh in during a private conversation discussion with Young. It wasn't that private. I mean, it's either one of those two guys or this discussion was not private at all. Like, I'm no, I'm no matlock here, Kev. What do you mean a private discussion? I mean, unless Cleopoeppella is telling you, hey, here's what I talk to Trey about.

I told him the story of James Hardin and Dwight Howard. Hey, you know, the wise old, 26-year-old Clint Capella sitting down Trey Young and telling him the age-old story of Dwight Howard and James Arndon. Come over here, son. Let me tell you a story. It's like Esop's Fables. Opens up a little storybook. Yeah, the Hardin and the Howard. Superman and the beard.

and this is what happened don't let our team get pulled apart at the seams. It could be a children's book, really. Yeah, ridiculousness. Superman and the beard. My God. Yeah, real private discussion you got there. All right, let's get to some of the things

that have surprised us so far this year. All right, I'm going to list these off one by one. Okay, yeah. Let's go through. Let's go through some surprises. The first one, want to mention is a team that is at the top of their division standings in the Eastern Conference that has been very good so far this year.

We have given them more love this year probably than we ever have in the past. And that is for our massive legion of Pacers fans. But the reason I'm mentioning them is because we have spent so much time talking about Sabonis, right? Go look at Brogden's dog. Yes. Thank you. I'm glad you mentioned Brogden.

What in the heck? Like, look, I'm a Brogden guy. I'm a Brogden fan, always have been since the draft. I loved him at Virginia. Yeah. That being said, you don't see, and it's only 9-10 games, but I thought Malcolm Brogden is probably always that 18, 19 point per game guy. It's going to get you 7, 8 assists, it's going to play outstanding defense.

You know, a really good, high-level NBA point guard. He might end up falling into the class of the, the Andre Miller's of the world, right? Where it's like maybe he doesn't even get his credit that he deserves. But this guy's average of 25 points a game. You know what I'm saying? Like Malcolm Brogden and seven assists. And the seven assists, right?

So like Malcolm Brogden and that production and you take a look back and like, look, it's impossible not to go. All right, would you rather have Malcolm Brigden or Drew Holliday? You know what I mean? Like you had and your first round picks for the next 10 years or whatever they gave up, right? Because they had to go and get Drew Holiday this offseason. And we're not far removed from them letting Malcolm Brogden walk in Milwaukee. Big mistake. Yeah. And if we look back now, I mean, 25 points a game now. We'll see how long it sustains itself. But it's pretty clear. Malcolm Brogden is not a static player. This is a, guy that is continuing to get better. And I think it's pretty shocking when people see him amongst, you know, these scoring leaders lists and stuff. And obviously, between him, they've got two guys that have really, really improved.

And with Brockton and Sabonis, it, every day, it looks like something better to build around that if you just added the right things around it, you could have a really, really, problematic team to face in the playoffs. I've been thinking of, you know, story ideas to write about like this week about like, what should I be planning ahead for right now? And it's like the pacer's the pacers are

the, I keep coming back to the thought. Are they being underrated as a contender? Are they being underrated as a contender with the way Sabonis and Brogden have developed? I mean, I know Milwaukee is still the quote unquote favorite in the east. You know, Philadelphia is on top of the east right now.

Boston's there. Miami's going to be there, etc. but but, but, but, but, but, but Indiana is better than last year. Will they get the, will they get Warren back? Hopefully. That's important for them. It is important. They need that spark plug score at the wing forward spot. And Warren's critical there.

They need him. But with Brogden's development, he's already been a 50, 40, 90 guy in his career. He's knocking on the door of doing that again with higher volume. I mean, his development right now, he's still so young right now. I mean, he's still a young player overall. He feels like he's been around forever. He feels like a veteran player, but he's still, he's still 28. He's just entering his prime.

We're two years removed or a year and a half removed from people talking about Victor Oladipo, maybe being the best shooting guard in the Easter conference, right? And now Vic looks pretty good. And now you've bragged it on top of that. But I think he's probably the third best player on the team, which is saying something. Right. Which is saying something. And that's what I'm getting at with Indiana.

like not only they have this top end talent with Subonis, you know, DiPo, Brogden, Turner's really good, they have good role players come off their bench and holiday. They get depth. I look at this team, you know, hopefully Warren can come back and it's like are they being underrated?

They have to win in the playoffs first. I agree. I agree. Obviously when it gets to that point, and we'll assess when it does get to that point, but looking at the league today, I feel like they're still being viewed as this nice team. like, oh, the Pacers.

Oh, no, they're fun. They're good. They're good. But, like, to me, I'm starting to look at this team, like, oh, they are legitimately a really, really, really good team that might actually be great as we see this over a longer period of time. The Brockton being a 25-4 game score was what I had written down is my surprise. I didn't see that coming. Even if I thought they were going to be good. You know what I mean?

Like, that's a significant leap. And by the way, like, how important is that? Because last year when Oval Depot was coming back. and he didn't look like himself at all. Brogden was, you know, handling the ball a lot. He possessed the ball for 6.8 minutes per game according to NBA advanced stats.

This season, it's still at 7. He's getting even more touches than he did last season, so he's handling more of the shot creation and responsibility. That is so important for Oladipo here because now Victor Oladipo doesn't need to also worry about the playmaking. He can focus on what he's best at, scoring, attacking a defense that, you know, that's rotating,

not in its proper positioning. And Oladipo is thriving. He looks really, really good, especially compared to last season. I'm still not sure he's quite at his peak level, but he's getting a lot closer than we saw earlier in the year when there was concerned that he'd ever get back to that. This team, this Pacer's team really good, dude.

Don't underrate them if you're a fan of another East team and you're looking at threats. Annie Annas a threat. Here is another surprise. And I say this because I've caught myself watching the end of probably too many of their games. Right. So I have a tradition where

odd nights, my son and I will watch the games and he will keep up with on his iPod touch, the scoreboard, and he will keep me alerted to all of the scores and we'll flip around

right from game to game to game. His iPhone touch. We'll try to watch the last five minutes that's so we didn't have to do the phone. Yeah, that's smart. Good parenting right there. Yeah. So,

But he's got the sensation of having a phone. Yeah. Right. But we watched the last five minutes of so many of these games, right? He'll say, oh, this game's gotten close or this game's coming down to the wire, right? I can't tell you how many. It's more nights already than I expected that he has said, flip over to the OKC game. And I'm like, for what?

And like the other night, they beat the Pelicans was a game that I was watching. you, right? Like, they don't, like, super suck. Like, I, and I am, I, I just thought that this was going to be like, they're going to be super horrendous on purpose. And, and, and there's going to be, like, a few teams like that. Like, Detroit is awful, right? But, Blake Griffin, oh, he looks done, roasted and sad to watch. Oklahoma City was the one that everybody said, there's really only one team in the West that doesn't fancy themselves as a playoff team. And I know they don't fancy themselves as a playoff team, but I thought they were going to be awful. And they are not. I don't understand it. And even when you watch

them and you watch who they've got out on the court, it is shocking that they, I think they're what, a game under 500 right now? Yes. Yep. Like they are, they compete. Three and four on Look, and by the end of the season, they're not going to win many games. But I'm telling you that if we're talking early season surprises, the fact that I have had to watch the end of four Oklahoma City games at least already is shocking. Because I thought they were the one that everybody was just going to be able to chalk up as a win. Lou Dort is shooting 46% from three. And he was a guy who wasn't really covered just a couple months ago.

the bubble and during the whole regular season. So with Dordt, with Dort, shooting 46% from three is surprising. But let me say this. He's a good example of a guy when it comes to three point percentage. This is why historically, free throw percentage is a stronger indicator of future three point shooting success than three point percentages. And Lou Dort shot above 70% from the free throw line in high school and college. He shot 79% from the line last season.

a rookie with okayc he could not shoot threes but he has the touch the feel the free throw shooting ability that bodes well for him and he's not going to continue shooting over 40% from three for the rest of his career but the fact is is i feel like there's a guy in there who can reliably shoot above 35% and that changes everything for him because lewdor the guy we saw in the defensive end of the floor what he did against hard and creating some issues for him if that guy can be a liable three-point shooter for you. That's a 10-year pro. So with Dork, Kiv, like, he hadn't been in the league that long.

Is he one of these guys going to be up for a contract? Is he in the contract year? No, I mean, so he went on drafted and he signed a four-year deal with O KC. So he's not a free agent until 20-23. So he didn't take long-term, long-term security. Outperform your contract guy. Yeah. I mean, he does have only partial guarantees for the next two years.

Maybe there's some type of, you know, long-term deal. Wow. There is a benefit to giving money to a player who's deserving. Sometimes that's sort of the heat way, you know, rewarding players rather than, you know, penny pinching and, you know, keeping them on their small deal. So maybe we'll see. But it's encouraging. And I'll tell you what, one last thing on Dort. Watch him, you know, in college, watch his Arizona State video.

Look up some Lou Dort, Arizona State highlights. You're going to see a guy who could create off the dribble who could be a spark plug for you. And all I'm saying is Lou Dort right now at 21 years old. We know him as this awesome hard-nosed defensive player. We're starting to know him as a good spot-up three-point shooter. The next step might be off the dribble. There's something there with him that needs to develop. He needs to get better at decision-making.

He needs to tighten his handle. But there is an ability there that's untapped and it's raw. But for OKC, I'm curious to see as they suck, you know, is there a rebuilding tool team rebuilding, you know, phase here? How does he develop over the next couple months, next couple years? something to watch for. He's more. He can be more. They're not a total pushover. So that was one that I had written down. It's not they don't have all. They're not full on tanking. They have good veterans.

Like Al Horford can still play. George Hill can still play. Yeah. One of the young guys, Shaggildes Alexander doesn't suck. He can already play. Sam, he's going to have to trade these guys. Because he needs more draft picks. He's only got 55 first rounders in the next three drafts. Somehow. now. Another thing that is surprising is, I don't know if you saw this, but there was a story

that came out of Seattle last night about some of the legislature there talking to Adam Silver and being very positive about things hurtling towards Seattle, getting a franchise back. It was the mayor of Seattle, right? I believe. Yeah. And you and I had spoken about Brian Winhorse article about expansion

and about how the NBA is really looking into this because it is a way to get rid of some of the debt without having to share it with players, that if they expand the league by two teams, it could be a massive financial windfall for the 30 teams that are there. And a lot of them are trying to mitigate those losses. And so I just had this written out as an early season of prize. This has happened so fast. Like we went from Adam Silver, never really broaching it to, hey, maybe there'll be a franchise in Mexico City one day. or maybe one day we'll expand across the pond to now after the coronavirus and the economic problems that have come along with it.

Like this became very real, very fast to now the point where at least on one end we've got Seattle already believing that they are getting a franchise and then Las Vegas or whoever. Yeah, whoever will get the other one. But like, I think this went from an idea to a reality. It feels like in like two weeks. Like this all just happened to where it was like, like it couldn't be longer than a month, right? I remember Adam Silver for the first time ever, he was asked at a press conference and he responded with,

it's definitely something we're looking into. And everybody was like, oh, hold the phone now. like there really could be a there really could be an expansion here and now it seems like this could happen quickly we'll see we'll see i'm sure you know adam silver was giving you know positive vibes to the to the to the Seattle representative there um you know to make them feel good but also the pandemic has accelerated everything for the NBA with all the innovation that they wanted to go forward with they installed the playing tournament last year giving the nine-seater chance immediately.

Now they have the nine and ten that have an opportunity to get in for a one-year trial, which I would expect to stick because I would expect that fans are going to love it again, just like everybody loved everything last year in the bubble. And with expansion, that's always been something that, you know, there's always been interest. You mentioned how Adam Silver never really went too deep into it, but it's always been something they want to do in the future. But now it's something there's a window here to push for and try to get it through. And will it happen?

I don't know. We'll see. We'll see. It's happening. We'll see. We'll see. If you say that, are your buddies in the Grizzlies front office? Like, please move us to the East or not so much anymore because the East is looking pretty good. I would imagine that it will be Grizzlies, New Orleans, wouldn't you think? So like, it's got to be one of the three, either Minnesota, Memphis or New Orleans. Right? It's got to be. Like, who would it be of them?

Memphis is literally the most, the furthest east, right? I'm not, I'm not a geography major here. Oh, look. Hey, when Jerry, when Jerry West was the GM many, many years ago, he fought then that they should be in the Eastern Conference. That was the year that Hubie Brown won 50 games and the Grizzlies were the eight seed. 50 wins got the eight seed. That's, you had to win 50 games just to get into the playoffs. And he was like, we should be in the East anyway.

Yeah. I mean, really, they should. I know. The Grizzlies are pretty East. Yes, pretty East. All right. Let me get to another thing that has been a surprise so far. And that is the New York Knicks.

So we talked about this on Tuesday. But since then, I watched their game against the Utah Jazz. And I tweeted Austin Rivers has waited for this his entire life. Austin Rivers looked like those high school mix tapes you used to see of Austin Rivers when he was at one point, the number one high school player in the country. He was just breaking people off. I mean, the whole bag, floaters, fadeaways, stepback threes. He scored 14 straight to end their game against Utah. It was out of control.

and this as you watch that unfold it's like this now the jazz game was one that could quickly bring you back to reality you're right

I mean that's an extremely good team and they clearly faced a hawks team and now might have sent the hawks into a total locker room tailspin after the Knicks came back on them the other night night and stole the victory away from them.

But that Utah game, look, Austin Rivers being that dude for them down the stretch, I mean, that was, if you had never watched a Knicks game before it, or you had never, if you had no awareness of who Austin Rivers was before, and you watch that, you would think Austin Rivers is the biggest superstar in the league. This is like Kobe stuff. The best next point card since Jeremy Lynn. Just took over the. the game. Oh, it's River Sanity. Is that what you're saying? I like the Austin Rivers quote after

that game. He said, I've been on bad teams before. This is not one. I can promise you that. I don't know where we'll end up. There's so much work to do, but I do know that the spirit is different. This is not the Nick team that y'all have been covering. Speaking to the New York media there, they're not. Maybe, maybe. Maybe. You never know. After seven years, is this the new Austin Rivers? Is this home? Do you know this? It would have, the roof would have blown off of Madison Square Garden when he hit that last three. That was the craziest thing ever. And who knows what's sustainable because R.J. Barrett's been awesome. They haven't had Obie yet. R.J. Barrett's been awesome. Julius Randall's numbers are just freaky at this point. And,

And I have been the Julius Randall fan. And I've been the Julius Handel hater for a long time. I remember one of our big arguments. You wanted to trade Julius Randall for Otto Porter and a, or Julius Randall and a first rounder for Otto Porter. And I fought you that I would rather have Julius Randall. Then we fought last year. You tried to tell me he was worse than Dario Sorich.

Now come back. No, stop it. I'm looking stupid now. You get Julius Randall. His respect. Julius Randall averaging, let's just make it clear when you say outrageous numbers, 23 points, 12 rebounds, 7.4 assists, shooting 34% from 3. I mean, the dude's been kick ass.

And that's like the surprising aspect to me with the Knicks. Randall, a guy that I've never been a big fan of, still not the biggest fan, but a bigger fan right now. And I love the way they're utilizing him on the offensive end of the floor. Tibbs has him running more handoffs around the high post around, you know, the wings, in the three point line. He's facilitating a bit more. He's still turning the ball over nearly five times a game too many. He had three at the end of the Hawks game that were just like, oh my God. Still too many turnovers. Still too many. But the passing willingness is encouraging to see. And he's, he plays hard. He plays hard. He does. You know, I mean, he was in there fighting Rudy

Gobert and those guys. And he's an undersized guy. I mean, that's always been my issue with Randall going back to Kentucky. I remember I wrote an article for Celtics blog.com like in 2015, whatever year his draft was at 2014, 2014, that's right. And it was like, Celtics fans wanted Julius Randall and it was about his defense and just how bad he was at Kentucky and the defensive end of the floor. And Randall's one of those weird types of players who plays so hard. It's just he's not always in the right position. He's often in the wrong position. and with him that's been a learning thing for him is, you know, over his time in the league.

And it's encouraging to see that progress under Tibbs. It's been a little bit better defensively. He's been a little bit better as a playmaker. And hopefully for him as he gets more time with this group around him than he gets even better. Because there's a, there's a really good player in there. There is, undeniably. Just, you know, hopefully it can come together. I'm encouraged.

And that next team, look, you turn right. it's one thing to beat the Atlanta Hawks to come from behind and that's super cool. But then you had to turn around the end of play the Utah Jazz who were at total full strength. Yeah. And Utah has no answer for Austin Rivers. Is Donovan Mitchell ever going to be consistent?

Austin River. Can I ask that question, Chris? Is Donna, is Donovan Mitchell ever going to be consistent? Are you just going to blow past the Austin Rivers MVP discussion? Yes, I am. Oh, okay. Mitchell was eight for 23 in that game. And he's had a lot of those nights throughout his career.

Obviously, Bubble Donovan Mitchell versus Jamal Murray was one of the epic, you know, guard battles we've seen in a long time. But those two guys are very, very, very, very inconsistent. Are they ever going to bring it consistently, Chris? My inclination would be yes, because I side with the talent and I side with the great players figuring it out. And I do think Donovan Mitchell is a legitimately great player who has had a lot thrown on his plate at, you know, for a very early age. He was expected to man the load as a second year player. You remember people criticized him.

And I saw him when it mattered most in the playoffs. You saw what that guy became. So, I mean, when he goes eight for 23 in a regular season game on a Tuesday night, I don't give a shit. Like, I saw him drop 50 in the playoffs. He was there for it. You know what I mean? That's what I'd care about you being consistent is when these games matter most.

and I think he's got his bona fides with that, right? He's no longer a question of, can I count on this guy? And so these swings throughout the season, you know very well, Donovan Mitchell could turn up. If I told you Donovan Mitchell this weekend goes 16 for 21 and has 55 points, would you be stunned? No.

No. I'd just like to see, you know, more consistency, less lows. That's all. And he's still young. I'm just, I'm nitpicking here. One thing that's nice with Utah. You are really nitpicking. Get off Donovan Mitchell. I love Donovan Mitchell.

I said he was, I've been wrong about plenty, including a guy that's hurt in Detroit right now so far. Oh, no. I loved him, you know, coming out of the draft. He's better than I expected. And yet I still feel like he's also viewed as better than he might actually be right now. That's what these guys do, though, Kiv. That's what these guys do.

if you are the guy you're not you're not awesome every night you're 8 for 20 you're 8 for 23 and then the next game you're 13 for 20 I'm nitpicking here and also the nice thing for Utah is you don't need them to bring it every night because Mike Conley is looking

more like Mike Conley yes they got to get Bogdanovich you know be in Indiana Bogdanovich yeah or even how about Utah Bogdanovich you know how about that guy That would be nice too. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. Because like that, that has still never looked like it's supposed to look. Now, we didn't, we saw him without him in the bubble. But like they kind of got it going a little bit before the end of the year or before, you know, the season got shut down. But it's never just been all right with those guys, right? and Ingalls coming off the bench and it just, it never was all right.

It's, it's never looked like it should look in theory, right? When you add him to that mix, the fit has not been perfect. There. And I don't, I don't know.

I don't know if it's, because we're, we're now, I mean, they've played quite a few games together, right? It needs to start looking more fluid better. That offense should be,

devastating. I think that's what we thought. We thought that offense would be devastating when they brought in Bogdanovich. Like, wow, Mike Conley and Donovan Mitchell and Bogdanovich. And it's like, it's not devastating at all. When it comes to inconsistencies

for players, one of the things that I'll bring up, you know, after mention this about Mitchell, he's shooting 9.3 3-pointers per game the season up from 6.9 last year, up from 6.7 the year before that, up from 7 as a rookie. I wonder how much when it comes to, you know, the highs and lows from some of these young guys is sometimes forcing shots that they might otherwise not be comfortable with, you know, rather than going in for a mid-range shot, maybe on a night they're not feeling.

I just something I'm interested in there. You also got to remember, because I was thinking about this last night. These guys are playing a lot more games than a shorter amount of time. Yeah. Some of these teams are playing 17, 19 games in January. For sure. Oh, yeah. I mean, that is a, that's every other day.

pack schedule. That's every other day. So you just don't have the same recovery. And you're also, this is something to pay attention to because I thought about this. I watched the series against the, against the Lakers this past weekend. And it had like the playoff feel in the sense of the team was staying in town and then you faced them again. So you made all your adjustments and you're playing against that team for a second time. and I'll be very interested to see how the numbers flush out in terms of the second game that teams played against each other.

Because you've got a lot of these that are happening because theoretically what happens in a playoff series is you play against a team. You say, all right, we sucked here, we sucked here, we sucked here, we lost the game. This is, and you make all the adjustments. And so a lot of times you see series end up one to one because the losing team gets to go to the film room and say, we're going to change this, this, and this. The winning team says just keep doing what we're doing, guys, right? Because you won. You don't have to change a lot.

And so the team that made the adjustments for the second game ends up winning. Well, I do think that that has an impact on guys' performances too. Because if you bust somebody's ass one night, you're a lot less likely to get to bust their ass, you know, two days later. Because the other coach is like, all right, this is what we're doing. We're trapping every picket roll or whatever, right? And so it's a little different aspect to this season than we've had possibly in the past. On the note of three-point shooting frequency, I was surprised to see C.J. McCollum averaging 11 attempts per game.

And that's noteworthy to me because just a couple years ago, it was nearly half that, 6.4 for him, up to 11. that's over half of his shot attempts are from three. And I just wonder how many more guys are going to accelerate towards this 10 plus or, you know, 8, 9 plus three point attempts per game that are the high volume scoring style guards like a Mitchell shooting more threes, like a McCallum shooting more threes. Like I said, 11 per game of only 20.9 shots per game. 53% of his shots compared to 38% of his shots from three this season. That's a dramatic difference, man.

I just wonder how many more of these guards are we going to see leaning into that? Because the three-point rate continues to go up across the league. Teams like the Spurs are shooting a lot more threes. It's going fast and it's accelerating. And I wonder how much this goes up more for some of these guards, some of these players who dominate the ball a lot. And by the way, McCollum, he's been really, really good, having a career best season for Portland. And I bet it continues for him.

Is that another thing you were wrong about? Portland. I've been right about them so far. They're not good. They're four and four. They're four and four. And they just had the bit of soda Timberwolves who have nobody score like 120 points on them last night. They still won.

They have a bottom five defense in the NBA. Last thing. before we get out of here. Last thing before we get out of here. A lot of work to do. Because I don't want to hear from them. Shout out to the Orlando magic. They deserve it.

They've been winning to start off this season. They've been a good story. Thoughts and prayers with Markle Fultz is horrible. Horrible. He had just, I mean, he was really taken off. He was starting to be the faults that got drafted very highly.

Maybe not number one, but a guy that certainly, looked like a lot of pick. Showed a lot of promise. And now they're going to have to do it without his services. As I said, when I had my projections going into the season, I like them more than you. And it's just because I think that Clifford is so good to me.

I think he is such a good coach that makes good adjustments and just squeezes out every bit of like any amount of wins. you could have, he'll get him. I really do. I think he's one of those guys that can maximize whatever they could possibly win this year. I think there's

very few guys that could win more games with that roster than Steve Clifford. Not to, you know, be a downer here, but coming up on their schedule is a much bigger test than the teams they've faced so far. They have Houston, Dallas, Milwaukee, Boston, Boston, Brooklyn,

New York. that's their next week and a half. If there's one thing I've learned, though, if there's one thing I've learned, though, you have no idea who you're facing. Last night, I thought I was going to watch Sexland, and I was going to watch all these teams. Such a great exam. Hey, tonight, I'm going to watch a Brooklyn team with no Kyrie Irving, no Kevin Durant,

no, like you look at this schedule and you sit there and you mark wins and losses, and then by the time you play the game, it's like. All I'm saying is on paper. are a much stiffer test for them than what they've had so far the season. That's all. You know, that this will be a better person. It's somebody doesn't realize it's

Cole Anthony time. It is Cole Anthony time. It is Cole Anthony time. Watch out, Kim. I still like a lot of the guys on that team. Aaron Gordon, still a big fan. Moamba. Still a fan. Kim Berge. Canberts. I still like Mo. Not the big, not the biggest Kim Birch fan blocking Moabba's minutes.

Fred Stevens, we want to see Taco Fall. Yeah, we want to see it. If these guys got to be out, we want Taco Time. All right. Kevin, have a great weekend. Thank you to producer Sasha as always. And we will talk to you next week. Have a great weekend, everybody.