The Mismatch - Bill Simmons on the Harden Fiasco, Teams He’s High and Low on, Rookie of the Year Picks, and More

Episode Date: December 8, 2020

Bill Simmons joins Verno and KOC on the brand-new feed to talk about James Harden skipping training camp in favor of the strip club (0:45), the Brooklyn Nets (23:24), teams Bill is higher on and lower on than everyone else (29:18), KOC’s Rookie of the Year pick (40:22), and more.  Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Guest: Bill Simmons Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, this is Kevin O'Connor. Welcome to the new feed for the mismatch. Thank you so much for subscribing. And if you're listening but haven't already, please click that follow button on Spotify or subscribe wherever you're listening to this podcast. On today's episode, Chris Vernon and I are joined by a very, very special guest, Bill Simmons. We talked about the Rockets and the James Harden mess that's happening there and what could happen next. Then we've gone up the teams that were higher on or lower on than the consensus,

as well as rookie of the year odds. All that next. Welcome to the mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me as he does every Tuesday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.k. Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Candness. Kevin O'Hourne, we got a guest today. We do. It was a big weekend for our inaugural mismatch feed pod.

And so as we told you, we are going to be bringing. on different people throughout the weeks and who better to have first than the man himself, Bill Simmons. He joins us now. What's up, Bill? I think I invited myself on, but that's fine. That's fine. We can pretend it was your idea. I was like, hey, man, I'm ready. Tell me when. Well, this is perfect because you have been talking about this situation. In fact, last week on your podcast talked about the situation that we're starting with today, which is, James Hardin was supposed to be at Rockets camp. Everybody is having their training camps in the NBA.

James Hardin was seen at Little Baby's birthday party with 100 grand, which, by the way, I will say this before we get anything else, good friend to give, I mean, that was evidently his gift to Little Baby, $100,000 for his birthday. Then he was seen in a gentleman's club. Then he was seen in Dreia's Night Club in Las Vegas. So he's been all around the world over the course of the past couple of days everywhere except for Rockets camp. Stephen Silas said obviously it's an issue to not have our best player here. We don't really know when he's going to show up.

Well, let's start with that. What the hell are the Rockets going to do about this? Well, first of all, you made it seem like it was a big deal that James Harden was at a strip club and a nightclub. He calls that Thursday. Yeah, right. Or Friday. I just think he's living his life. It's a staring contest.

We knew this was going to be how it played out. I did my pot on Thursday. I thought he would get traded before the season. I still feel that way. And I don't like the league that this league is becoming. Is it too much player empowerment? This is beyond player empowerment. This is just being shitty to an entire fan base.

Like, let's call for what it is. This is somebody who is getting paid. I think like, what, $40 million? a year, $41 million a year, who has been with this franchise for eight years and had a connection with the city and the community. And just because they did make the finals the last two years, which I think he's at least partially to blame, just decides he wants to leave. And now he's just going to do whatever the fuck he wants.

I don't know why they don't just stop paying him. Like, he's supposed to be there. Going back to the 70s and 80s when I was growing up, when people didn't show up for training camp, preseason stuff like that, they got fined. Teams are so afraid to start players now. And Kevin, I don't understand that piece of it. Because I always hear the argument of, oh, they don't want to make the agents upset. They don't want to send a message out that they're not player friendly to other teams.

At some point, this is your best guy. And he's allegedly the leader of your team. And he's just basically taking a shit on your franchise. How do you just stand by and not find him, at least? You know, I mean, the player empowerment era has fans believing and in media, too, for that matter, that teams should listen to every demand that a player has. And with James Harden, last year, last summer when they traded to Chris Paul for Russell Westbrook, that was a situation where Mori felt like he had to do something.

And in that situation, they gave up their entire future for one year of Russell Westbrook. And I can't help but look at this mess that Houston is in right now and think James Hardin has nobody to blame but James Hardin for these issues. the Chris Paul relationship did not go well, forced the trade to get Russell Westbrook, and now forcing his way out after Russell Westbrook, wanted out, and he wants out too. So for Hardin, a lot of these issues were, you know,

created by himself, or at least largely created by himself. And this is a situation in which where the player empowerment, you know, as the Rockets, you only have so much that you can do. I still think Hardin's going to show up. And if he doesn't show up, eventually it will come to a point where they are able to just not pay him. It's not there yet. But that moment will come if he doesn't arrive.

But who knows, by the time people listen to this on Tuesday morning, he very well may be on his way to Rockets camp. But I mean, what a mess, man. Like, overall, I'm not sure. What can the league do? Like, what can the league do about taking back power in situations like this? Well, I mean, look, they do have power in a lot of things, right? You get drafted to a place that, you know, you have no say over.

Most guys stay through their first eight years. I mean, there's certainly a lot of things that players don't have choice in. And now maybe the pendulum has swung a little too far the other way. That being said, you wrote this article about how you can't trade James Hardin. Or they shouldn't. They should just sit, let him be uncomfortable, whatever else. Here's the problem, right? If you're Houston, obviously, look, if he's not going to go to training camp and he's not

wants to be part of this team, it's going to be toxic anyway. and everybody knows that you want to move him or that that's what you're going to have to do. You've got to convince him to at least get there, play the part, be a professional, and say, like, yo, we're not going to be able to trade you because whatever you're getting back, Bill, you kind of outlined it, you know, how if you're Houston, you just kind of wait and hold him and let the offers get better. because these teams don't have to do this yet. Well, he's kind of forcing the hand right now in that he's going to create such a bad environment or at least he is right off the bat that I can't imagine somebody's going to be like,

oh, okay, now we'll give you all kinds of crap for James Harden. Like, I think if you're Houston, the play is to just beg it. Like, yo, like, do right by this. Help us help you get a trade because there's no way we can get what we want. want back for you if you're not here and everybody knows you don't want to be part of this. Well, why do they have to do anything? That's the part I don't understand. Everybody's, well, they got to trade him if he's not happy.

It's like, do they? They don't. Because here's what they have. Here's the pressure they have. The pressure they have is he's at the, probably the, I don't know, 10-yard line of his prime, right? He's 31, but he's been really, really durable the last 10 years. And do we think he's going to be at this level for one? more year, two more years, four more years, I don't know. But each year you lose now at this point

of your career really matters to you, big picture. It matters for scoring records. It matters for your legacy. It matters for, can I actually make the finals while I'm this good, as good as I am right now? They can use the pressure of that against him in a weird way. And it's like, hey, man, if you just want to, you know, ruin your season, fine. We just won't pay you. Don't show up to work. They don't have to do anything that they don't want to do. And unfortunately for James, I don't feel bad for him because he signed a huge contract to be there. What was it? Like a $200 million contract? $190 million, $180 million. So if he got hurt, they'd still have to pay him, right? They'd still be on the hook for his contract. They wouldn't be able to be like, yeah, James, we've decided we're

not paying you anymore. Like to me, it's at least somewhat of a two-way street. They have an obligation to pay him. He has an obligation to play. And this isn't a good reason not to, to play because he's not happy. Also, what he's doing is Stephen Silas is disgusting. I, that guy, I feel so bad for him. I do. I mean, this is your first media sessions, right? Right.

No, it's like we talked about last week, Chris, for Silas. I feel awful for that, dude. He walks into this situation and nobody wants to be there, especially James Hard. And now with this, you know, crap that they're dealing with. But ultimately, you know, I think, you know, to answer my own question, I asked you earlier, Bill, like, what do you do about it? it's like Chris said, there's other advantages that teams have. You have a rookie contract and you have obviously restricted free agency.

They have rights to players for a long time. So it's not like teams don't have power in this. And they do also just have the power to say no. They don't have to take that net steel right now. They don't have to take anything Philly might be offering. I heard your podcast last week where you went through a number of different teams that could potentially make offers. And you kind of, you know, came to the point that the best asset they can probably be offered. it's Ben Simmons.

And I agree with that, but, you know, I agree Boston's not trading Tatum, you know, Denver's not trading Murray. But I do think there are a couple of potential guys that, you know, could make some theoretical sense for both sides. So just going to lay out three of them. Atlanta, Bogdanovich, Cam Reddish, salary filler and future picks or other young players. He just got him. Well, when you're eligible to trade him.

Not now, not now, but when you're eligible to trade him. Minnesota, DeAngelo, Russell, and Pittsburgh. they can trade all their first after 2023. Oh, he'd be thrilled to be in Minnesota. Yeah. It doesn't matter what he wants. It's what the team wants.

And then the last one, New Orleans, Brandon Angerman picks, and they have all a whole bunch of picks. So I'm just laying out those three teams. Why would I want James Arden right now after he's pulling this crap? Yeah, I think it's too risky for, he's a top 10 player. I know, but it's too risky for those teams because you're

trading for a guy who's immediately going to be super unhappy when he shows up. If you're Minnesota, you can't. You just went through this with Jimmy Butler. Atlanta seems like they're all about Tray Young. Trey Young probably wouldn't want James Hardin because he feels like, he feels like they're on the same level, Trey Young because he won 20 games last year.

And then New Orleans is the only one that's mildly intriguing because they have so many picks. And could you talk hard and into Zion and playing with him? And so Stephen Adams, a couple other things. But I think we all agree James Harden. in New Orleans probably isn't a good idea from a night last day. Here's the thing, Bill. You have to cut that one out. You were asking about how you didn't want, how this could change or what the league has become.

It changes by Houston standing up. That's how it changes. Like a team finally saying, to hell with you. Like, show up and play and be bad. Like, that's how it changes. That's the only way it changes is if somebody doesn't cave to him. they're like, yeah, we tried everything to make you happy. We brought in star after star here.

We brought in Chris. You said you wanted to play with Chris. We brought in Russ. You said he wanted to play with Russ. I mean, at what point? Chris, you have kids. Yeah. So they gave James Hardin every single thing he wanted for the last eight years,

even to the point of like actually making the Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook throwing in picks trade for him because he want to play with his buddy. And at some point, when. the best player on the team just feels like he's above the law like this. It hits this dangerous point. I remember this happened with the Lakers with Kobe, right? Where Kobe was basically, he convinced him to get rid of Shaq, even though he didn't like necessarily make the trade,

but it was like a him or me type thing. And those next couple years, they tried to cater to Kobe and to him scoring points, and it didn't work. And it hit that point in 2007 when they seriously tried to explore trading them. and they had two things, and Kobe's like, I don't really want to do that. But ultimately, if Dr. Bus had come in and said, what are we doing? We're not trading Kobe Bryant.

I actually think they would have traded him. And then Kobe, they get Gasol and everything kind of works out. That's the only time I remember somebody coming to the precipice like this and then staying and then everything ended up happily. I guess Hakeem-Elejewan was another one who was unhappy, but I don't think they ever seriously considered trading him. But in the last 30 years, those are the only two names. I remember where, and then the guy ended up staying and then it worked out.

This feels dead to me. I don't think there's any coming back from this. And I'd be really interested to know what the Houston fans think of this. Like, imagine rooting for this team your whole life and this dude that you're defending every year when you lose in the playoffs. And a lot of the times it's because he disappears at the worst possible times. You're defending him to your buddies. And then he's like, yeah, all right, I'm out of here.

I'm going to go play with Joel Embed. Or I'm going to go play with Kevin Doreen. I can't tell you for certain. I'm not totally plugged in. These Houston fans, they hate my guts because I've been... For good reason. Yeah, for good reason. Primarily because most of them are stupid.

But I feel like they have turned their attention once again because they will never blame James Harden. He can really whip it out and urinate right on their face and they would take it. They're not turning their attention to the owner. It's always somebody else. So now it's Tillman Fertita's fault. That's whose fault this is. Right.

Well, he never should have let the Westbrook trade happen. No, it's always going to be somebody else's fault. Of course. But it's always going to be somebody else's fault. It's never going to be James Hardin's fault. And so now they'll stand up for James Harden and he's the big bad guy. He's the problem now. But here's the thing, Chris, and KOC knows this.

He's going to go to a new team and everyone will forget that this happened and it's not going to matter. We went through this with Jimmy Butler, who did the same thing in Minnesota. And all of us loved what he did last year in Miami, right? He landed on the right team. All is forgiven. Who cares? He got what he wanted. And I know that's how the hardened thing's going to play out.

I think what makes this a little bit different was him going to Vegas and the nightclub and the strip club and that. Like, he's kind of flagrantly shoving it in their face. And that's, I can't remember. In the middle of a pandemic. Right. Right. It's not just you're at a strip club when you're supposed to be a. training camp. It's at your strip

club in the middle of a pandemic why you're supposed to be a training camp. Like if nothing else, they've sent out 500,000 rules for these guys. None of which include being in big groups or I don't know. So even when it comes back, I don't

think he can even be around the players for probably like 10, 12 days, right? I believe so. They test you. They get tested every single day. Every day. Chris, are we? sure this season is happening?

Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. This season's going to happen. I mean, it's going to be bumpy for sure. But I mean, you think it launches on Christmas like they think it's going to? Yes.

I think it's going to be hard. Would you bet your life on it? No. Absolutely not. No. That's where I am. The last 24 hours, I've heard, I think teams are getting a little worried about whether this is actually going to come off.

I get to do the, I get to do the Rosillo. Bill, you played basketball. Here's a thing. Here's a thing. It's a germ. Like you're literally passing around a germ. In football, there's 22 guys, like five of them touch it. Five of them touch the ball, right?

And then they're swapping it out the whole time or whatever. And I know there's 53 guys on the roster. But in terms of basketball, if one guy, you know, is asymptomatic or has it or is carrying it or just happened to be hanging out with his girlfriend over the weekend and she has a job where she's going to work around other people. I mean, it's just so hard. It's going to be so hard. Not to mention, you guys have both been in NBA locker rooms.

It is tight quarters, man. Tight quarters. It's just going to be hard if the, I mean, obviously we're praying for a vaccine as soon as possible. And obviously the NBA will be privy to that. But I don't know. College basketball, they had. One of my best friends covers college basketball.

I think there were 90 games or something like that scheduled this weekend and 35% of them got canceled. 35% of them. 35% of the games. And it's getting worse across the country. So, yeah, I'm concerned about that piece of it too. But, yeah, it's, I think short term, just looking at it for what this is, this is one of the best players in the league doing something that we haven't seen very often

in NBA history. And the way he's doing it, I think, pretty much stands alone. Okay. So I listened to your pod, as did Kev last week. Kev, I know you were, I know you're very interested in this, the whole Brooklyn and Philly. You kind of lined it out. And I know you threw Denver in there with the Michael Porter Jr. thing and whatever else. That was the only, I thought Brooklyn had to get another asset or else they don't have enough. So that was the best one I could think of. I think I think it's crazy how you guys are dismissing the ideas I threw out there. I'm looking for like the Toronto landing Hawaii. I'm looking for the the okayC landing Paul George. I'm looking for the dark horse team. New Orleans is a

dark horse. I think that's legit. Yeah. Atlanta like if they're good, you know, or or at least they want to really make a push or Minnesota if DeAngela Russell's and they want to try to maximize Carl towns. I mean, they did it before with Butler, different regime, but still, I mean, I feel like... Atlanta's not getting James Hardin unless Triung's in the trade. I'm sorry. What about their future picks? That could be better than the Brooklyn deal. That could be better than the Brooklyn deal, even with the Michael Porter Jr. idea, you mentioned. You can't trade him unless you have one person you can point to to your fans and you say, we got this guy. That was the flaw of the, even like something like the original Hardin trade, which was, and he wasn't the same kind of guy,

but it was like Jeremy Lamb. Jeremy Lamb, yeah. Yeah, and Kevin Martin, and it was the Stephen Adams pick. And just in general, it hasn't worked. It's funny, though, I think teams are getting better

at superstar trades because the Davis trade that New Orleans made was probably the best version of one of those trades, right, where you give up a superstar, but they got a ton of shit back.

Okay, so what do you think that Philly would trade Ben Simmons for James Harden? Because you mentioned that. I think they would, have to. I think you have to. Today? Or do you have to wait until the season begins? I said this last week. I think you have to, if you're Philly, you're not throwing in anything. It's just Simmons for Harding. That's it. And the only way you throw in more is what

I laid out in that pod, which is you have this other suitor comes in and you're worried you might not get him. And now you have to throw in stuff. But I think Simmons for Hardin is an awesome basketball trade. That's the best player. That is by far the best player you could get back. Remember when Marbury? Yeah, remember when Marbury and Kidd got traded for each other? Phoenix had to trade Kidd because he had domestic violence situation. And they flipped him for Marbury.

And it was just a great one-on-one trade where it was like Marbury is this young guy on the way up. Kid is right in his prime. Marbury is worth 80% of kid. They're extenuating circumstances. So they do the deal. And then Kid makes the finals the next two years. But it reminds me of that trade where it's like you have one guy who's, arrow still pointing up. You have another guy who is like directly in his prime. And if they got

Harden, I think I think they would have to be the favorites in these. I would, I would think so too. But one thing I just want to get back to that you mentioned in passing earlier, Bill, was you said, you think this from the Houston perspective is dead, the relationship with Hardin and Houston. I wouldn't go that far yet until he ends up showing up. He's unhappy. And if things don't go well. I think if it doesn't go well once he returns whenever that happens then we can say it's dead but until then I still think there's a pulse

and for the rockets they need to get him back and field this out they have to figure out how it works with Hardin and Wall and Christian Wood and PJ Tucker and all the guys they got there with a new coach, new system. Silas said today there's more ball movement that's an emphasis for them. They gotta see

how it works with Hardin before doing anything. Just have to. I don't care how bad it is right now. You don't trade James Hardin, a top 10 player, an MVP candidate for, you know, these four quarters out there that people are offering. There's not a deal that you take. So it's not dead quite yet, in my opinion. I mean, it's close, but they got to give us a chance.

KOC, I agree with you. Oh, yeah. No, look, I'm not going to, I certainly would not disagree on that in terms of when do you have to make the, it's dead in the sense that it's never going to actually work. he's happy again in Houston. I think that piece is dead. I'm a child of divorce. KOC is not a child of divorce. I'm more cynical naturally. I know firsthand divorce happens. This is a divorce. This will be a divorce. I don't know when, but it's going to be dead. It does feel inevitable. I'll say that for sure. Yeah. I mean, they offered him the Supermax and he didn't want to take it. And now

he's not showing up. Like, what more do we need to know here? Like, I mean, for Tita and his son, they sound like such a delight to hang out with. I don't know what he's thinking. Wait, what was the name? What was his name of the book? Like, shut the hell up or something? Shut up and listen. He's got a book called Shut up and listen. No, I wonder why I have a problem was with this.

Star player. Oh, my God. I mean, look, in fairness, the Houston fans, I understand why they, like, they've turned this guy into the villain. He seems all around all. They sound awful. He sounds awful. He really does sound awful.

He came in. Everything was great. And within two years, everybody's going to be. gone, everybody. Literally every asset they have, including Darry who was like, yeah, I'm going to take a year off. It's going to be great to spend time with my kids. Ten days later, he was working for Philadelphia. Poor Rockets fans. Once Hardin's traded, they're going to get the John Wall-de-Marcus cousins show five years after it would have been fun.

Oh, no, not the John Walt DeMarcus cousin show. I got to say, I still think that's fun. I'll watch it. It still signed me up. For Wong and Cousins. I'm Wollong Cousins. I'm I'm well, cousins. I'm not giving up on them. I mean, if they were in the big three, um,

oh, whoa. All right. All right. So anyways, uh, I do want to ask you one thing that I have not heard you mention at all, Bill.

And I find this very, very interesting because much like everybody knows that like you had podcast, yeah, podcast guests over the years and guys you were really friendly with. Um, Daryl was one of them. Steve Kerr was. one of them. I have not heard you

mentioned the Nash thing at all. In what sense? That he is the head coach in Brooklyn and whether or not you think Steve Nash, like, how that's going to work. Because you actually also know Kevin Durant and now we have Kyrie's

obviously throwing his flag in the ground to the media right before the season even starts that I guess he's just going to email us all statements about how he feels about everything. but you know that guy as a person. I think on the surface, everybody thinks, hey, great point guard, great guy, probably

could end up being a good coach, but he's not exactly walking into the easiest situation. I talked about it once with Raja after he got hired because I was shocked that people were not realizing what like a natural coaching kid in that he was. And just the history of the week, the best players who were leaders like he was always become coaches. and if they want to become coaches, they immediately get hired, and that's just the way it goes. I was surprised having known him for a long time and knowing how he feels about chemistry and the importance of team personality and stuff like that, that he was willing to walk into this Durant-Kairie thing.

Now, the caveat is he spent a lot of time with Durant, and Durant's a good guy, and I think they really spent a lot of time kind of obsessive. over craft and little things about drop steps and shooting off the wrong foot and all the stuff like if you're going to use Steve Nash as a resource and Durant just like loves the hoop that's who he is he's fundamentally he loves basketball he loves talking about basketball and him and Nash I think really clicked and I think Nash is probably looking at it as if Durant is healthy again this guy was the best part in the league when he got hurt he was he was the best part in the league that playoffs when he got hurt. And if he's even 98% of that, I have a chance to compete for a title. And Kyrie is a point

guard. I can get along with other point guards. I'll figure him out. I've dealt with Amari Stadermeyer. I dealt with Acknowledic personalities. And then Brooklyn and a lot of money. You know, I think Nash wanted to be in a big city if he was going to do this. And I'm sure there was a pro con list. I didn't talk to him about it. I'm sure there were a ton of pros. I'm sure there were a couple cons. But a really high profile first job, I guess would be more scary. Really high profile. Because I remember talking to Kerr when he was taking the Warriors thing. And that was a no-brainer. And Kerr was decided between Knicks and Warriors. And I remember talking about it. I was working for ESPN. And it was like, what did you think? And I was just like,

the Warriors thing's a no-brainer. I can't think of a single reason not to do it. You have your best player is an awesome guy. You have a young team that kind of underachieved last year for what they were you have owners that are willing to spend and you have one of the best fan bases in the league. Like, that's a layup. I don't feel like Brooklyn was a layup. But Brooklyn is supposed to be awesome. Do you think Brooklyn is supposed to be awesome, KOC?

Like, what is it? I mean, a win. You mean, it's a basketball team or a franchise? Yes, they are, people are expecting them to be a dynamite team. I mean, people reacted. Kevin Pelton, you know, he just throws the numbers in the computer and sees what pops out. And they had them like, I don't know what it was, like,

41 wins seventh place or whatever like in those projections and people were like oh 41 of 72 or 41 of like 82 yeah yeah 41 of 72 where it was like it was like seventh place because it was taking into consideration uh a the injury thing and be the fact that they should still be pretty shitty defensively yeah i mean i think the defensive aspect that's what that's what's going to determine if they're awesome as you said are just very very good i mean we saw the last couple of years, Lakers, Raptors, you need defense in order to win a championship. Did the Nets have enough of that? I'm not so sure they do.

Oh, come on. We know they didn't. DeAndre Jordan, probably not. Not with DJ, you know, anchoring the paint. Katie coming off in Achilles, Kyrie not being a great defender, though, I will say, in postseason setting with Cleveland, he did lock in on defense and was better when he had to be. But that's my favorite, the Achilles, though, is the, that, that, that, when you're talking

about can he be 95% what he was, whatever. That 5% is, you can lose, like, just, West Matthews is a good example. He's probably the most modern example we've had of this. He's a different player after the injury. He just was. He was not the same guy. Offensively, I don't worry as much with Katie,

but defensively, and with Clay, when he returns, too, I do worry about moving laterally and on switching against quicker guys. That's where I get concerned for what Katie can be defensively. Because when we saw him, he's tall. Oh, yeah, he's tall. he's seven feet you know and it's like once i was worried with tall guys when anything below the knees starts to go knees and down you know and but i on the other hand if anyone was going to spend like

a couple million bucks to rehab that achilles you know the technology is better now so as chris knows that's why chris is that's right in such phenomenal shape you know chris has a cry out chamber how dare you even his four kids they go in the crowd chamber. My number of kids changes every time we speak. Before we get you out of here, the team that you know you are going to be higher on than people, the team you know you're going to be lower

on than people going into the season. Oh, that's a good question. I really like Washington as as a team that is just going to be a 45 to 47 win team that has a lot of pieces that I like. And it was the team, I was hoping Westbrook would go to. I like him and Bill together. That's 55 points a game. We can debate Westbrook

another time, but that's 55 points a game with those two guys. And I like their role guys. I like Robin Lopez. I love Bertons. I think Brian will be good. If KOC's dude, Denny, if Danny can come through, Denny and Rui, both

of those dudes. And Troy Brown and Troy Brown. That's Kevin's guy. I like that team. If you were telling me, Toronto versus Washington, you would say out Toronto definitely have a better record than Washington, but I think Washington has a little more upside just because what Russ brings to the table

as insane as he is in so many different directions is just he's going to play 82 games. He will play 2,900 minutes. He'll average a 27-9-9 and 9 and you'll win some games you probably shouldn't have won. The Ringer NBA staff released like power rankings today and they had the wizards in the same group as the Hawks and magic. and I'm like, ludicrous.

It should be way better than that. No way. It should be way better than those too. They're in the Indiana group. I agree. Indiana group makes sense. You know this bill, because all those years, you had season tickets to the Clippers,

and it's much like when I was having to go to every grizzly game when they sucked for so many years. And it is, you gain a different level of respect for the stars. I feel like this has a profound impact on teams. You gain, you see the guys on a Tuesday night in Memphis where there's like not even a video camera at the game. and they still want to just rip your hearts out. Like, those are the wins you just get because those guys just, they don't care.

Like, no matter what game it is, whether it's national TV or not, they want to kill you. And that's the kind of thing that, like, the Westbrook guys, like, that, I always end up. Kobe was like that every single time. I watch that dude put up 56, 63, 65 in games that just nobody was even, watching. You know what I mean? Like, always watching the game. I'm bummed they didn't take

Dinwiddie is the one regret I have with this whole thing. Because I think you had Dinwiddie. I think he could have played with Westbrook and Beale because he can play off the ball. I think he would have given them some playmaking kind of unselfishness that they desperately needed.

But in general, if you have two really good players and you have good role players around them, you're going to be good. And they have two top 30 guys. Oh, the team. Yeah, you know you're going to be lower on than the consensus. It's got to be somebody in the West, right?

Say the Lakers. I dare you. No, I think the Lakers are going to be good. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. How about the Grizzlies? I'm dubious to the Clippers. Ooh.

Interesting. Clippers. I think there's some weird chemistry shit going on there. They didn't make all the trades I thought they were going to make. I didn't like anything I read from those dudes. Paul George talking about basically blaming Doc Rivers. like it was Doc Rivers fault. He just would check out of halves.

Marcus Morris, I wasn't used correctly. You're Marcus Morris. You've been on nine teams. What are you talking about? Hey, how long does it take you to drive to San Diego, by the way? When I read that, that's a two-hour drive. Because my daughter has soccer in there sometimes. It's like you try to leave when there's no traffic because it's a legit.

It's a legit two hours. Legit. No wonder he was always late to the plane or whatever. I thought he had like a helicopter thing going on. But I don't like, here's the other thing with Kauai. You know, he landed in that really a perfect situation in Toronto, right? Like they have a foundation, they have real leadership, they have an awesome coach, they have a great organization. He's entering a team that was already like kind of a fringe contender.

It wasn't unrealistic for them to make the jump. And all I had to do is fit in. You didn't have to be like the guy. I don't know. Can he be the guy? if your best two guys are Kawai and Paul George, what kind of team are you going to have? What kind of hard are you going to have for four rounds?

This might be a silly thought, but I'm just going to ask it anyway. Is there any chance Kauai comes back a more vocal person realizing that he needs to take the... No chance? No chance. He doesn't speak. No chance. Listen, I think he's one of the top 30 players ever. I think he's awesome. But somebody's going to have to be the alpha dog in that team. And maybe it's going to be Ty Lou because I think he did that with the calves.

If he can be the alpha dog and hold those dudes accountable, they, they, we can't, you can't say it strongly enough. They've rolled over in that Nugget series. That was a rollover. That was, there's like something wrong with your team. And really all they did was flip Harrow into Abaka. I don't feel like that's enough. But why can't that happen?

Kaui Leonard's a player who transformed who he was. He has maximized the on-court product. This is the first time San Antonio, when they were winning there, they had established leaders, goes to Toronto, they have Kyle Lari and other vets there, and then he goes to the clippers and they fail. Is it not possible that Kauai over the off season is like, you know what,

I got to work on me, how I am as a leader and how I interact with my teammates. But how do you work on that? What does he go to like Starbucks and orders a couple of baristas around? I don't know how you even work on that. It's a commitment to using your voice. It's a commitment to being a leader. And I think that's a transformation that whether it happens in business or whether it happens on a basketball team is something people can make.

It's not like he hasn't been a leader by example, you know, by what he's actually. Hopeful Gen Z, KOC. And maybe it is. He has been. He's been a leader by poor example. If what they say is true, which is playing whatever he wants to play, people sitting on a plane, people sitting on a plane, wait. waiting it for to go off. I'd be like, that part is ridiculous.

You know what I mean? Here's the thing. You can get away with that special privilege stuff when you're LeBron and that's it. That's the only guy in the league who can do that stuff. And by the way, LeBron is an awesome leader. And you read all these different stories about he really puts a lot of time, thought, and energy and how to be the main force with all these dudes and organizing team dinners and movie nights and all these different things.

Kauai's not never going to be that kind of guy. But I worry about two things with him. One is, has it already passed the point of no return where they were catering to him in so many different ways? How do you kind of pull that back? You're letting somebody pick when they practice and pick when they show up. How do you, like, crack down on that? And then the other thing is just him physically, I thought he really slowed down. KOC, that last round against Denver.

That's what I worry about. He looked like he was past his prime in a couple of those games. Whereas like in the Dallas series, it was like, oh, my God, Kauai's amazing. This is he's never looked better. And I thought he tailed off big time. That's why with the injury stuff and him, you know, load management and missing practices, I get it. But the fact that he has to do that in order to be healthy and be productive deep into

a potential playoff finals run, that's why I worry, the physical reason he has to skip those practices and has to load manage because of the fact that he has some problem with his lower body that causes that issue. And that as we saw in the postseason did cause a bit of a decline. He did not look like the Kauai Leonard that we saw with Toronto or the San Antonio Spurs or even earlier in the season with the clipper. So that's my number one concern with them is the health of Kauai and the leadership aspects. Do you like their team? Do you like the way the pieces fit?

Because I'm not sure that like I can't believe they didn't get rid of Lou Williams. Louis is like the worst playoff player the last 10 years. It's still a good team and I don't think I'm ready to assess their playoff hopes until the deadline passes. But right now they still going to make changes. Lou Williams got to change that. I think the Kennard upgrade. I mean, we'll see how the chemistry shakes out. They know more than anybody who the causes were of the chemistry issues there.

And swapping Harold, granted, Harold was really good for him. And he was an energizer at times and their offense was sluggish. And they needed him during the regular season. They know in that front office and coaching staff who the real chemistry issues were. And if it were just Harold and not Lou Will and not Patrick Beverly or anybody else, then maybe things can work out better with this. this different mix that they have. But I'm not convinced that they're done making moves.

I think more will come and needs to come. Chris, one other thing on this. What happens if they don't come out of the gate well? And you have Paul George, who has a player option, and you have a thing called the trade deadline. I feel like he becomes available pretty fast. They will be a scapegoat coming out of the gate here in the first two months unless they look like the clip.

The thing with that Quippers team last year, they never looked like the Quipper team we thought we were getting. You'd see a flash for a game or two games. You'd wait, wait, it never happened. And even in the Dallas series, they let a Dallas team hang around that had fucking Luca playing on one leg. And Porzingis played, what, 40% of the series, 30% of the series, that Dallas dragged it to six? Like, what the hell was that? So are you leading that we can come full circle? And Paul George, we team him up with James Hardin?

Those to deserve each other. The Paul George, Doc didn't use me the way I'd like to be used. I couldn't believe it. I just can't believe these guys that that was his takeaway from the season. It wasn't like, I need to look at the mirror. What happened? I've never really come through. I got to really try to figure out how to go up a level.

No, it's Doc Rivers' fault. He didn't use me. Even KOC, who's been critical of Doc, I think, said it best. and said, Doc Rivers isn't the reason you hit the side of the backboard. Right. If you're going to criticize Doc,

criticize him for guarding Yokic with Harold and Jamich for the whole fucking series. Like, that would be a doubt on criticism. Why do we guard that thing with two guys who can't play defense on him? And then Jamichael Green's like,

I'm just going to go play in Denver. He's like, I thought that was the most fascinating quote of anyone in the off season. It really was. When he was like, yeah, you know,

they killed us. We rolled over. and I was like, well, I'll just go play with them. Whatever he said. I was like, oh, my God. I think he said they showed a lot of heart coming back 3-1 or something against us. Right. It seemed like an indictment.

Oh, for sure. Bill, we're going to let you get out of here. You're the man. Thanks for giving us our own feed. I want KOC's rookie of the year pick. Rookie of the year pick. I sent you all the odds. Yeah, we sent the odds.

You sent us the odds. Hey, the best value on that thing you sent us is Cole Anthony. That's the best value. It is. Come on. No, you come on. No, you come on. That's ludicrous.

Those other odds, those other odds suck. Lamello Ball and James Wiley. Lamello's not winning it. But those are like a hundred bucks pays $300 bucks. Give KOC the floor for 25 seconds for his case that Killeen Hayes is going to be the Rook of the Year in the trade. Just do it. You stole the words right out of my mouth.

We're talking about the Piston's starting point guard, a team that has some talent around. them guys to pass to guys to alleviate the pressure for him they're not going to be the worst team in the league so they have that going for him too if you're talking about what media does maybe but not the worst

killing Hayes is going to put up numbers he's going to get a bracket up a lot of assist tell him the odds he was he plus 850 he's a plus 850 behind edwards ball topping and wiseman so fifth best odds I like those for killing i like Hayes plus 850

haliburton I think was 1901 something like that 14 to 1 plus 1,400 for Halliburton. And then Wiseman was the other one just because there's a world in which Wiseman comes out and he's just really good. Yeah, that's possible. And averages like a 17 and 7, something like, who knows? One of the note on Hayes, he's going to be good defensively.

And for like the nerds out there, you know, that we'll care about defense, that there will be cases made. Like, he's the best defensive rookie in the league. He's deserving a rookie of the year. So if you're talking about betting on who voters like me and you, Bill, will vote for, I think Killian Hayes plus 850s a solid value We will have recently though

we have given that award to the guys it's gone more the way of the MVP Now I'm not saying that those aren't the best players because they have been the best players But both Luca Donchich and John Morant were not on extraordinarily shitty teams Right yeah but you got to put those guys aside I think this would be more like a Michael Carter

Williams Malcolm Brogden type of look in the year right Yeah where somebody just played 32 minutes a game and put up solid numbers and everybody's like, eh. I agree. I have a question for Chris. Yeah. Killian Hayes, 2021 on Rookie of the Year or the French Kendall Marshall, if you had to pick one. What are you doing this to me?

There's steam coming out of his year. One or the other. Those are only two choices. No, wait, have you turned on Killian Hayes, Bill? Because who was the one that you, the KOC one that, uh, the K-O-C one that, uh, It was the seven-footer that weighed a hundred pounds. The seven-foot 190 guy that, oh, prestu-stated two picks for it.

That guy's going to suck. Oh, please. He's not going to suck. Too much steel. Too much size. On draft night, it looked like they were holding his whole family hostage. They're sitting around a kitchen table. I was like, oh, my God.

What is that? They're texting, Presti updates. We've gotten them up to 1951 pounds. He just had six cheeseburgs. That guy's going to suck. I can't wait to play this clip back in seven years. Yeah, you said that about Bobba. We told you that about Mo Baba.

We said the same thing. I'm not out on Baba yet. He's still on the sec. I'm still on the island. Here's my fear with Hayes. I do think he moves at his own pace, which Luca, somebody like that can do. He's not like the lightning fast.

He's more like the, you know, he has like a vibe with how he plays. And I worry that the NBA is going to be a little too fast for. as a rookie. I think eventually he'll get there, but I worry about that because he's not like explosive, like a typical point guy. He's not explosive and he doesn't have the burst

that you find in a typical star point guard, but he has a great footwork for his age, good feel, and he's very good of decelerating, too. He can stop and go. He's a field guy. Yeah, he's a field guy. And maybe he won't be like a top 10 point card.

I mean, a top 10 player in the league, but I think he can be a top 10 point guard. And that's where I see Killingen Hayes' upside. And potential rookie of the year, I give Lamello better odds than it seems like you do, Bill. I think he's going to put up numbers in Charlotte, especially in the assist category. You're out. Gordon Hayward's going to put up the numbers. Lamello takes a backseat.

Why are you so out on Lamello? I'm out. I just as a rookie of the year, I think he's going to have too many games where he goes like two for 13 with seven turnovers. That's what's going to hurt him. It's being too erratic. But like I mentioned in Hayes, he's going to have defense as an argument for him. He's going to be more efficient. Lamello's going to have the inefficiency as a score that works against him when it comes to

Rookie of the Year debates. Because I don't know if there's going to be a clear-cut obvious guy in this group of rookies. I don't see one guy. Well, I don't know if you saw, but it does not help my man James Wiseman. He wasn't even able to show up at training camp today. You know, Kerr had to talk around it a bunch, but both he and Draymond green out and everybody kind of understands that, you know, it's so, it is such. a tough spot for these teams to try to explain when somebody test positive because they just

they don't know what the hell to say. And then their coach is out there trying to talk about the team and they can't really say. But then they just kind of let like wink wink to the reporters like, hey, you guys are on the right track as to why they're not here, but they can't say because of the, you know, the rules. But that's not a great. It's not great because, look, everybody's trying to get this stuff together so quickly. I mean, these teams are playing preseason games Thursday. It's unbelievable. I saw an ad for a game and I couldn't believe it.

Yeah, it was like three days away. You know, the one other guy I didn't mention his top and just, and I wouldn't bet on him because I think they have too many guys who play same type of position and I don't know how many minutes he's going to get, but I like that he's older.

I think he, you know, he's somebody that could come in right away and maybe just wreak a little havoc offensively. I don't know if he'd do anything defensively. but that was, this is going to be an MVP, rookie the year season where whoever wins it is not going to have great stats. It will be like that Carter Williams season, I think. I don't see there's,

I don't think there's any candidate who you'd be like, oh my God, that guy's averaging 20 a game. I just don't see it. So you think it's just going to be bad team, huge stats guy. Bad team point guard. That's why I was thinking, or even Halliburton, in his case,

like if Sacramento is a little better than people expected. But where is he playing in? A bench guy? Sacramento. I mean, we'll see. Does Buddy Heald start there? Probably. But, you know, maybe Hallibur and still puts up numbers off the bench.

Maybe he ends games in Sacramento, if they get into the playing tournament, who knows? I could see. It's just hard. Some of these guys are going to play 35 minutes a night, you know. Yeah, you're right. I'm so mad that they ended up with him because that freaking franchise where they're just like, yeah, take Bogdanovich. We're not going to match. Take an asset from us.

We'll pass. like these guys and they knew it was going to happen everybody knew everybody knew he was going to get off match the contract you can trade it in six months what are you doing

or you could have traded him at the trade deadline last year they literally turned him into a zero yeah they could have traded as Chris said they could have traded him

for the deadline teams wanted him they were the no no we want to resign him he's important us and then he goes for nothing like if you're a king's fan you're looking at like

what the fuck just happened no you think Danny Age is your GM. Oh. What the hell is that? Too soon. Too soon. I mean, it doesn't make sense, but not sure about too soon.

There's been a massive spike in the John Morant rookie cards, which I think is the Vernon. I think it's the Vernon family driving the price out. That's right. I own them all. It's unbelievable. They're treating him like he's like Oscar Robertson. I own them all. I've flooded the market.

Now, there's only so many. They're so scarce now because I have seven to eight hundred. I've got a whole of them. Crazy. I'm just going to keep pile of them up and I'm going to pray that it all worked out. Last time before I go, I love working with you guys. I'm really proud that you have your own feed. It was fun to watch the show grow and become what it became.

I think it has a lot of fans. And I love how hard you guys work at making the show entertaining. And I'm proud to have it. My man. So thanks for having. Thank you, Bill. Super appreciate you. Thank you for coming on.

Bill Simmons. Thanks, buddy. Thanks, Bill. Certainly appreciate having Bill Simmons on the show with us and all the kind words. Kevin, we have been promoting a lot for the new feed. I know we're super excited about everything that happened over the weekend. We're very grateful to all of you. And please help us get the word out about subscribing to the new feed.

because this is the only way people are going to be able to get the pod from now on as the Ringer NBA show feed continues. And they're doing some stuff with that too. Yeah, there'll be a new show on Friday premiering this week to be determined. You know, you'll see it when it comes out. But I'm looking forward to it on Friday. And then sometime, you know, in the coming weeks or months, I'll be hosting a show, I believe, midweek on that feed. So we got more coming on the Ringer NBA show feed. So stay, subscribe.

there, stay following that feed. But also with this feed, the mismatch, please be sure to tell your friends who love the NBA, hey, check out this pod. Hey, check out this pod. Maybe they'll like it. Maybe they're already a listener. They just forgot to subscribe or didn't here last week's pod.

So word of mouth is very, very important. So we appreciate everybody who's already followed and subscribed the new feed. That means the world to us. Me and Chris, thank you from both of us. But also, we're going to keep pushing it and hope you guys can help a little bit too. Kevin, and by the next time we talk, I mean, it's going to be preseason time where we're actually going to be talking about how people have performed. Dude, it's wild. Our show drops Friday morning.

That night, that night, we get five NBA preseason games already. Doesn't this feel like NBA 2K when you simulate the off season and suddenly it's the following season? That's what it feels like right now. Everything, I mean, and life is moving simultaneously slow and fast. This NBA season was just all fast. It's weird. I'm going to tell you, this weekend, my son was playing 2K. And he was playing, he was playing all manner of games throughout the day while I was watching some football games.

He had another TV on in the room, where his gaming console is. And I was watching as he was playing. And I saw him playing against these different teams. So I saw him playing against the Warriors. And I saw Wiseman on there. And I saw like LaBello playing for the Hornets. and just even watching them and watching like what their faces

looked like and everything. The game is incredible, by the way. Did they fix the fact that in transition shooters go to deep mid-range and don't, you know, go to the behind the arc, but they fix that? I don't know yet.

I don't know. I was just watching him play. I was just watching him play. But even just watching that, you know, it becomes real that, oh man, this is going to look cool

with Wiseman there running with Steph Curry. Like, you know, we could throw it down to him at the post or whatever. And the preseason, obviously, can be boring. There's never that much you can draw out of it. But it is going to be fun for the guys that are on new teams.

And especially, it's always fun to see the rookies for the first time. Even if it's preseason, just seeing them on a court against NBA level competition for the first time is something that's always fun. And you can usual, like, it's not the. end all be all, but you can kind of see who looks like they fit right in right off the bat during the preseason. You can. I think preseason is valuable in that sense. You can never overreact to what's happening, but I think you do have to take in, and we'll talk about this more later in the week, but you have to take in what is happening and think about how can this translate to the regular season? I remember in James Hardin's MVP season, his preseason numbers per

36 were pretty close to what his actual numbers during the seasons were. And I remember, I forget if I predicted Harden for MbP or said watch out for him as an MbP canate like we talked about recently. My memory is not the sharpest. But I remember that preseason looking at his numbers like, this is, this is like historic pace for him compared to his past preseason. And his past preseason were similar to his regular seasons that followed. Point being is that for rookies, for veterans, for guys in new.

situations or in changing roles, there is stuff to watch for in terms of how they might be utilized and how things could translate to the regular season. So I find value in it, but you can't read into it too much, especially with team performance. Who's Friday? Do you have that pulled up? We got Friday 7 p.m. Orlando and Atlanta, New York and Detroit, Col Anthony, Col Anthony. 8 p.m. Houston, Chicago, 10 o'clock, Lakers, Clippers, 1030, Kings, Blazers. five games. I'm excited. I'm excited, Chris. You're going to get a lot of, uh, was it, Horton Tucker in that Laker game, aren't we? Amen. Horton Tucker shows are plashes. There's no way any of those guys are playing. There's no way any of them will even touch the floor. It's going to be the Taylin,

uh, Talon or Horton Tucker show. It's the Alex Caruso show. That's what's going to be. Then again, has Caruso entered that echelon of Lakers that's got to get star rests. He didn't take the night off. I don't want to give it to him. He's pretty good. I can't wait. There's going to be preseason games by Friday. Did you see my hoodie?

I posted on Instagram the other day? No. My father John Misty. Oh, yes, I did. Yes, I did. Did you see the comments? That was funny. Just for a description of people,

I bought a Father John Misty hoodie that Dan Bealey and John Titterington, the people who made the theme song for the mismatcher in the band, Father John Misty. And I love Father John Misty. that band Josh Tillman. He is Father John Misty. I support them. So I bought a hoodie.

The hoodie looks like a Lakers logo, but it says Father John Misty. Yes. So, you know, I posted that. And you're wearing that in Boston. Well, I mean, technically South Shore, Massachusetts. But yeah. But the Lakers fans loved it.

They're like, come to the dark side. You're that much closer. I'm like, it's a Father John Misty hoodie. It's a Father John Misty hoodie. because it looks like a Lakers logo. It's not a Lakers logo. Where do you land with this, Sasha? Where are you at with this?

As a Lakers fan, what are your thoughts on that? It's meant to look like a Lakers logo, too. I know it is. But it's a Father John Misty hoodie. That's an NBA, it's NBA related. So I had to get it. Why would I not get it? I disapprove.

Look, look, you've been predicting the Lakers before the season even starts for the past two years. And then he put on the Father John Misty Lakers lookalike Hedy. I don't know what you expect, honestly. He's kind of a

closet Laker fan, isn't he Sasha? You can tell. Well, he's a He's a LeBron fan. There's no way around that. I'm also an Alex Carissa fan. And an Anthony Davis fan.

Oh, Anna Markle-Solfan. Oh, we got so many players to root for. Oh, there's so many players to root for. You know, I was a really, I really like Dennis Schroeder in the 13 draft, too.

Back when I was wearing for Stel. I'm like, he could be a great Ronda replacement. Here's the question. Would you have bought the father John Misty hoodie if it looked like a New York Giants logo? I mean, no, because it's football.

And I have, I mean, no, for that reason. I was just trying to think, because I know you're a Patriots fan. How about a Yankees? If it was a Yankees logo. No. No, I don't think so. Okay. I mean, we are testing.

There are certain... Or testing you here. There's certain barriers that I feel like as someone who grew up in this area. And I realize that the Lakers won that, like, you're like, you cross the barrier. Yeah, you, yeah. But like for me and my upbringing, like, I lived Red Sox Yankees. I lived one of the heights of that rivalry back in the early 2000s. Aaron Boone, Alex Rodriguez, Jason Veritech slapping.

You didn't hate the lights. You didn't hate the Lakers? You didn't hate the Lakers. I mean, of course I hated the Lakers. You can look back at my Facebook statuses from like 09 and 10. I mean, those are all hidden in the past. But let's not look back at those.

Let's do it. Let's do it. I want to see teenage KOC. I used to hate LeBron. But I also used to love LeBron when he was a young player. I had a journey like loving LeBron when he led the calves against the Spurs, then hating him during the Celtics calves around. rivalries, hating him when he went to the heat, and then growing to appreciate him.

And now really, really truly deeply appreciating him and respecting him as a player in person and leader and everything. But, you know, with the, with the Lakers, that Celtics Lakers rivalry was really only two years in my life, two years. You know what I mean? It was Red Sox Yankees. It was really quite a long time, it was many years. And that was what was really ingrained in me from a young age with my dad and our early. And with the Giants, I'll tell you what. Super Bowl 42. Super Bowl 42 and the Patriots lost, the 18 and O Patriots lost to the Giants, Eli Manning.

Eli Manning. Eli Manning in the Super Bowl, it still gets me mad. It still gets me sad. On that day, I cried. I cried when the Patriots lost. When Tom Brady threw the Hail Mary and it sailed past Randy Moss, I cried. that's one of the only times I've ever cried over a sports game. I cried after the Celtics won the championship in 08.

I cried after the Patriots beat the Seahawks and shared that with my dad. But I also cried when the Patriots lost to the Giants. That's the only loss I've ever cried at because that team was like a friend to me, not like a best friend to me. And just the amount of fun we had during that ride, that's one of the reasons why I think that loss shaped me as a person because I don't think that. I'm serious. I mean,

I'm serious. I don't. Shape you as a person. It did. I don't think I truly, truly appreciated that run. I think I took it for granted. And after that,

the sadness I felt and, you know, over a sport, you know, losing, losing, you know, the Super Bowl,

despite being a spoiled fan that already won multiple championships for my city and including the Patriots, I was, I was like, I can't invest everything in the end. I can't invest all my hopes and the final destination. I need to appreciate every step of the way there.

And ever since then, I have invested my energy and my heart into enjoying the journey and taking it step by step. And it's largely due to that loss. Like, it sounds silly, but that was a pivotal day in my life. It really was. It really was. Well, I'm going to be, I'm going to be your therapist. Thank you, Chris. Kevin, you don't have to overcompensate to LeBron for things that you wrote when you were 14.

And you don't have to appreciate everything just because the Patriots lost. All right. Give it up. LeBron doesn't even know that you say. He said he was a scumbag in 18, in 2008. Here's some of my statuses. I looked at it up on Facebook just now. July 9th, 2010.

There's a typo I typed EPSN. EPSN might as well be renamed LeBron James Network for the last few weeks. June 22nd, 2012. Bill Russell handling the MVP trophy to LeBron James. Just sick to my stomach. I love it. And then, though, this is where things turned for a lot of people. July 11th, 2014.

What an awesome day in sports. LeBron James resigning with the Cavaliers is the best thing that could have happened. It's a perfect story, and I really can't wait to see what happens next. When I read the news, I couldn't help but laugh and smile because it's something I've been wishing for so much. Hopefully I can go back to loving LeBron like I did during the run to the NBA finals back in 2007. That's what I wrote in 2014. That's when it turned for me and for a lot of people. that was a you know it turned because they traded away paul pierce kevin garnett and ray allen no i mean i mean

for lebron specifically though that that was a great story though that's a great sports story that lebron won two titles with miami and then he goes back to cleveland that sucked and he wins with them we're going to look back of that mere more so than we already do many years from now and see that LeBron Block against Iguada and everything else that happened in that series. And I mean, that's special, man. The fact that he did that, that's pretty crazy. Now winning with the Lakers and still going, extending his contract. Boy, oh, boy.

I mean, think about it, dude. If you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't stop. Your kids weren't even alive when he started. Jesus Christ, I wish Randy Moss would have caught that ball. Trust me. None of this would ever. I do, too. I do too.

I do too. hear about LeBron every friggin' day. If Laredi Moss would have just caught that day, if David Tyree didn't wedge it against his hand. If, if, if they got the stop on Brandon Jacobs on fourth down, if Osamaix Samuel didn't drop an interception. Come on, let's keep going. Not that it haunts you.

It haunts me. I've watched those final, the fourth quarter, wait too many times. Oh, my God. All right. Well, look, hopefully we'll be watching basketball by the end. this week. Certainly appreciate Bill Simmons joining us on the show. Thank you to producer Sasha, as always. Please subscribe to the mismatch feed on Spotify, Apple, or anywhere you get your podcast. And we will talk to you on Friday. Thank you, everybody.