The Mismatch - Booking Our Dream Postseason Matchups, UConn’s Dominance, and Zach Edey’s NBA Potential

Episode Date: April 9, 2024

Verno and KOC discuss last night’s national championship game, which saw UConn continue its dominance  against Purdue as it secured back-to-back titles (01:07). They share their thoughts on watching basketball games at football stadiums, KOC's updated draft stock for Donovan Clingan and Zach Edey, the most obvious team for Clingan, and Tristen Newton’s NBA potential. With the season nearing its end, the guys discuss which playoff matchups they want to see the most in both conferences (30:51). Got a question for Verno and KOC? Send them an email at [e-mail]! Or you can send the guys a tweet @ChrisVernonShow and @KevinOConnorNBA! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out rg-help.com to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody, it's Austin Rivers from Offguard, and I've got some exciting news. Offguard hosted by me and my guide Pasha Giggi is officially moving to our own podcast feed. We are now dropping two shows every week. Me and Pasha go way back and talk so much hoops already that we figured it was time to fire up the mics and let you in on these conversations. Every week, Pasha and myself will hit on the biggest stories happening around the league. Tap into the show twice a week on our new Offguard feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon and join me as he does on this Tuesday morning from Theringer.com.

It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K., Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Feerne. I'm in Arizona. I'm in a hotel room right now. Not my usual setup. How are you? Not your usual setup, but you did get to witness history last night as the Connecticut Huskies won a second-churchase. straight national championship. Well, I guess you saw the whole thing.

You saw the Final Four and then you saw the title game over the weekend. So take me through it. Tell me what this weekend was like in Phoenix. Witnessing that Final Four, obviously you're looking at it through the prism of NBA prospects, but watching those games being in that arena for both the Final Four and that title game. Well, first off, I mean, Yukon, pure dominance. You win all 12 games the past two years. of the NCAA tournament by double figures.

Truly incredible what they've done. And obviously they also have a rotating cast of characters, players who left last season, and then you have new guys this year. It's pretty incredible what they did. So, I mean, first off, that was cool to witness, like, such a dominant team just roll through everybody. Because, like, Alabama with Mark Sears, no joke.

And then Purdue with Zach Eadie, no joke at all. But it did feel like in the final last night, one on five at times. I mean, all due respect to Zach Edie's teammates, but it very much mirrored the woman's side of it with Iowa and South Carolina, where it feels like one on five at times with Caitlin Clark versus a stacked, loaded,

bigger, faster, stronger, South Carolina team. But it seems like both finals kind of had the same result in that sense. Because Edie, I mean, he got off to an awesome start those first eight, 10 minutes. Klingin looked overmatched at times. But Klingin got better throughout the game, which I thought was very impressive. from an NBA draft standpoint.

And Yukon just had so many different ways to beat you where you're kicking out to Newton 4, corner three. You got Cam Spencer running, picking rolls, doing like little mid-range pivots and fakes in order to create space. They just have talent up and down the board. They have at least five NBA quality prospects. We'll see who pans out.

But, I mean, dominant effort by Yukon. That's the game side of it, Chris. The atmosphere side of it. Boy, is it weird watching a basketball game at a football stadium. It is weird. It feels to me detached. I feel detached from the court in ways that I don't at a normal basketball arena no

matter where I'm sitting. If I'm at a basketball arena and the nosebleeds or if I'm in a basketball arena close in the lower bowl from the sides or whatever, I feel like I'm connected to the game. But at a football stadium, I had pretty good seats for the first game. I had a bias seat that night because there's so many people credentialed for the four games. And I had a pretty good seat. I felt so detached.

And then the media seat on Monday night, I felt so detached until like a seat moved up. There's an empty seat up close. Court side. I moved to that for the second half. Then you feel like you're in it. But like every other seat, I don't think there was a good seat in the lower bowl. I really don't. It's just weird.

It's really weird. Which is crazy you said. in the lower bowl because I've been to a ton of NCAA tournaments. I've only been to one final four. That's when Memphis played against UCLA in 08. And that was Kevin Love and Russell Westbrook, some guys that are still in the league. Darren Collison, they had a loaded team.

And obviously Memphis had Derek Rose. And I was bouncing around all week there. And I did not want to go as a media member. I wanted to just sit in the stands. and so then I came across, there was these guys from CBS. Of course, CBS at that time was broadcasting the tournament. They had all kinds of tickets. Guys like, I got you, I got you a ticket.

So he gives me a ticket. Kevin, when I tell you, I'm in the top of the Alamo Dome. Like, it was like watching ants play basketball. Like, I mean, I couldn't see anything. And I was like, what am I even doing? Like, my TV experience would be infinitely better than this. And I had no idea what I was. doing. And the other time that that has happened to me was I was in Detroit. This is before they had

this new arena. So years ago when they played in Auburn Hills, it was the craziest thing because Auburn Hills is really far away from the airport. It's like you drove to the middle of the suburbs. And there's like all these houses and nice houses and strip balls and stuff. And then there's just this huge arena. But their arena was huge. It sat like over. 20,000 people or something like this. This is the year that Michigan had Trey Burke and Mitch McGarry and that whole squad, right? And so anyways, I get there and I've got a media pass. When I tell you, I was on the top row of the upper deck in Auburn. I was adjacent to the catwalk. like it was me and Sting

sitting at the top of the catwalk and I couldn't again couldn't see anything so I remember Andy Staples who was at Sports Illustrated at the time text me and he's like hey there's a seat empty next to me down here and I was like

who's is it he's like it's Mike DeCorsi from the sporting news and he's like but he went to Dayton for the pod and he's like so just just come down here so I ended up going from the very very top row of Auburn Hills to literally the scorers table at Auburn Hill. And I make it through

like game one and game two security guy comes over and he's like, what's your name? And I was like, I'm Mike DeCorsi. And he's like, no, you're not. And I was like, you're right. I'm not. But he's in Dayton. You thought you were so slick. Yeah. Yeah. He's like, no, you're not. And he's like, he's like, I was like, but he's in Dayton. He's not even at these games. So this seat was just going to be empty. He's like, okay, I don't care. And I was like, yes.

So I'm just got to sitting there. Next thing I know, I turned to my left and in that pod, guess who sits next to me at the scores table? This was the coolest experience ever. I'm sitting there and the seat next to me turns out to be John B-line. He's coaching, and he's the coach at, Michigan at the time, and he is, so he comes to this next to me because he's going to scout VCU, Shaka Smarthead, one of his teams that was in that mix. I can't remember who they were

playing. I think Akron or somebody. But anyways, John Beeline, like, sat next to me, and I'm like, this is the, I mean, I was young. I was like, this is the craziest thing ever. And John Beline was like the nicest guy ever to me. And he's like, they're scouting the game for the next game. I'm like, I'm really sitting next to jogging his next game. P.S. I get all the credit in the world because in the next round, Michigan beat VCU by literally 100. I mean, it was outrageous. Your insight was so valuable for him. I mean, yeah, I was like, what are you going to do? What are you going to do against this press, John? Like, never would have been able to do it without you. Yeah, and VCU was like doing their havoc defense. They'd pick you up 94 feet, that whole thing.

But yeah, I hate it when basketball is in huge arenas. Hate it. It's very strange. And I get why they do it. I mean, you're selling over 100,000 tickets. And the crowds are good. Like the crowds are intense. It's loud.

I mean, the Purdue and Yukon fans really did show out. It was very cool to experience that. And I'm thankful, like me, Kyle Mann, Kyle C, and Tate, you know, all were credentialed by. I thought like PR did a good job at the event considering all the media. Like I'm sure that's tough to juggle all that. But yeah, I mean, like it was a fun time and all that. But boy, it's just, it's just weird.

It's just also, I mean, I think I was thinking about this last night. I've never even really loved attending NFL games either. I've never loved it. But I've also never had amazing seats at an NFL game. So like maybe if I had like, you know, 45 or 50 yard seats, like close to the middle, lower section. I would like a football game, but I've never sat close

at an NFL game. So I've always preferred watching on TV for the NFL. And I think maybe I still would. The thing that is much, much different that you realize when you go to games is, the NBA is like catered

toward everybody's attention deficit. There's always something going on. Every time out, there's something going on. It's too much. Yeah, but you really notice when you go to a football game because you are just sitting there in downtime. I noticed that when I went to the NCAA tournament for the first two rounds this year, there's like a 28-minute halftime, and there's nothing going on.

They might have a dance team out there for like 30 seconds. Other than that, there's nothing going on. And they don't like play the games, the other games that are going on, which is super frustrating. And so you do notice, once you go to a lot of NBA games, you notice how the other in-person products have so much downtime. And what happens is everybody just staring at their phone? And inevitably, the Wi-Fi at the place stinks.

And so everybody's frustrated on their phone. It's true. The real Wi-Fi is usually bad. It's so hard to get 20,000 people on the same network. You know what I mean? Yeah, but they should be able to improve it, I think. You need to just add more networks and create an environment that's modernized. Let's step that up.

However, though, I mean, ultimately, though, like, I think my, I have not been to every NBA arena. My least favorite one that I've been to, Clippers games. It is too loud. My watch is going off every two minutes. It's over 90 decibels.

It's over 90 decibels. It is so loud compared to every other arena I've been to. Well, wait until they have the wall of sound. in the new arena. It is a bit much, I think, in terms of like in your face, stuff going on. It's like,

I would prefer the clippers go the other way and kind of embrace like a college atmosphere. Because what I love about the college atmospheres is you get the band, right? They're not playing music during the game. Like, they're not playing beats and all that when the players are playing.

There's like a, there's like a dead space, like of sound sometimes that's filled by the reaction of fans. by something happening on the court, by the band. I like that. It's just all basketball sound, right? Whereas for NBA, it's like music or, you know, whatever you get going on in the Jumbotron.

I wish the clippers, that's the one thing I wish they did with their new arena. I wish they went to like a 10,000-seat arena, like smaller, no intimate. I know there's no chance, but I just, I would love to see a team do that.

Well, if you, if you want to be, get a game with less than 10,000 fans and silent. You need to move to D.C. I know. I know. You can get it. You can watch all the best. You can hear what they're saying on the court. I know. I would just love

an NBA team to just try to capture that college vibe during the games. Less music during games. I'd just be curious to see how it go. Maybe it would work. Maybe it would work. I just want to see it tried. I just want to see an attempt. So the big thing

from an NBA perspective is going to be this battle between Zach Eadie and Donovan Klingan. Klingan has been higher on every mock draft Eidie, two-time national player of the year who had had an unbelievable tournament. I will ask you if the result of last night's events changes your draft board at all? No, I think Klingan, I had him three going into the event. I still have him three right now. I thought Klingan, you know, like I said earlier, I thought Eidt completely outplayed him the first eight, ten minutes of the game. Klingen just looked overmatched, like mouse in the house level stuff, right?

But Klingin got way better throughout the course of the game. You know, when I was sitting up close in the second half, I was really like watching those guys battle on the post. And you could just see Klingan doing such a good job at keeping Eadie off his preferred spots. And I think some of the stuff Klingin did. he didn't win most outstanding player of the final four. It was his teammate Newton who did a great job. But Klingin, I thought some of the stuff he did in that second half to help Yukon create separation

with some beyond the box score stuff with making things harder on, Edy, pushing him out to have a deeper hook shot, a tougher hook shot, keeping him out of his position on top of, you know, just his standard deterrence around the basket against Purdue's underwhelming team around Edie. And I will say that Dan Hurley did a very good job in this deal because he came to one of the first timeouts. And this is as Edie was cooking early. And he's like, we've got to change it up.

Like we can't just play this guy straight up. Like whether that means digging down, whether that means – because I think what they were going to do is they were going to make sure, all right, we're staying attached to all the shooters. You know, it's the analytics play. This guy's not going to be hitting three. So if this guy scores a bunch of points and this guy keeps him in it, that's fine. But what we're not going to do is allow him to, you know, pass out of that constantly and then give them open three.

Like they didn't, they might have hit one three the whole game. I don't even know. I don't know what the final total was. It was one, one for seven. I mean, that's incredible. And so they were just going to decide. One for seven. You got, you're going to have to, like, this guy's going to have to make 40 field goals in order to beat us.

But then he was cooking so much earlier that they start bringing an extra guy. They make him start seeing other looks and obviously made life really hard on them. And then on offense, like, Yukon just gets great shot after great shot. Like the movement, the unselfishness. And there's a lot of possessions where I could see Klingan being very, very handy on an NBA level in this way more so than Edie, there's possessions where it feels like he sets six screens and is running all these dribble handoffs. It's crazy. Oh, man. Klingin is going to be an even better NBA player than he was a college player. Can you imagine him? If you look at the teams right now in the top 10,

not a lot of them need centers, right? Not a lot of them need centers. Detroit, you know, they could use a center. Washington, some of these teams they could. Charlotte has Mark Williams, San Antonio has Wembe. Maybe they go to bigs. Portland Aiton. Pertil in Toronto, Utah's got a bunch of bigs. You're getting down to it. But you know who does need a center? Your Memphis Grizzlies. Can you imagine Donovan and Klingin setting screens for John Morant and Desmond Bain operating

in the front court alongside Jaron Jackson? He could play with Jackson. He could play as the lone big on the floor. I mean, I think you guys, you're the obvious spot for Klingin to optimize who he can be in his career and also from a fit standpoint with what you guys need. To me, the Grizzlies are the clear far and away best spot for Donovan Klingen, assuming he does declare. And no pressure.

Just none. None. Zero. None. Literally zero pressure. Zero pressure. To be anything other than a role player. Yes.

Anything other than like doing, this is why I have clinging at three on my board. because at a minimum with Klingin, you were going to get a high-level room protector who has the mobility to not just drop, but hedge, blitz, maybe switch occasionally. You have a guy who can rebound, who's tough, who's an amazing teammate, who is somebody who sets six screens in a possession, like you said.

He's good with the ball in his hands. He can make passes out of dribble handoff, short roll, and he's a really good finisher around the basket. At a minimum, if you get that, you're going to get a good NBA player. And on top of that, you look at his improvement with his footwork on the post from his freshman year to the sophomore year, his improvement with his fall rate. He's an even better defender as a sophomore than he was as a freshman. If he continues to get better every year, he thinks he'll be a shooter at some point.

He shot threes back in high school. He's never shot them well. Maybe that can be untapped at some point in his future. I doubt it. But if you get the improved post play continuing to improve on defense, who knows? He could be one of those, you know, 30 plus million dollars centers, and you feel good about it on your team. So I think with Klingin, he has a high floor and that there's still untapped upside, perhaps, that he could get into in the right situation in the NBA. And as you said, there'd be no pressure in Memphis.

He doesn't need to get there. Or if it's the wizards that get him, it's like, oh, we got a role player? Oh, my God. This is horrible. And on the other side, I have just gone back and forth on the Eady thing. And I think I'm settled on he's probably got a place in the NBA. He's not going to be a high level player in the NBA. Like there were times last night.

He'll be a rotation guy. There's times when I'm watching him last night. And I'm like, he ain't doing this bullshit in the NBA. And he looks slow. And it's, I get it. He's skilled. He is better than people have given credit for. He's not just tall.

Okay. Yeah. Let's get that out of the way. On the other hand, how much of what he does translates to a much faster, much more athletic NBA. And that's where I, you know, again, the guy is outstanding as a college player. We're drafting college teams. I want Zach Eadie. But in terms of the next level, I would be shocked if he turned into a star.

So it's just about managing what you have. But he is a superstar on this level, and that's what I'm saying. I will say this, though, Chris. I mean, I don't think Edy will be a superstar at all in the NBA. But in terms of being a rotation guy who can contribute to a winning team, I do think Edy, you have to consider, like, people talk about some of the lob dunks, Yukon's backup center, Samson Johnson had, two of the lob dunks he had. kind of with EDI and drop coverage, you can look at that and say, well, E.D. looked a little bit, a little bit slow recovering on those. You can talk about the post game that E.D. has. But so in college, he posts up, he posts up on 64% of his possessions according to synergy. 64% of his possessions on offense are post-ups. That is not going to be the number in the NBA. In the NBA, he's going to have a point guard regardless of where he goes that can run a high pick and roll with a spaced out floor.

and get the seven-foot-four guy some easy shots at the basket, where he's that big target. And so I think you're going to see Eadie's role change in the NBA in ways that produce offensive, Braden Smith, all due respect, not an NBA guy, can't show. And on defense, some of those possessions with him, they don't have the size of the perimeter defenders that a lot of NBA systems are going to have either.

So I think with Eadie, there is a place for him, fit will matter significantly for Edy considering his skill set but I don't think a team is going to draft Zach Edy unless the fit is right. You know what I mean? I just can't see a team drafting Zach Edy where it doesn't make sense.

A team that's going to draft Edy is going to be like, oh, oh, the Miami Heat, they now have Bam Adabio shooting threes. Oh, Bam out of Bio, who is one of the best perimeter defenders is a big man. That could actually work. Eid and drop coverage, bam on the perimeter. It's going to be a team like that where you're like,

oh, this actually makes some sense. Right. So I think with Edy, I feel good about the fact that I would assume a team drafts him where the fit makes sense, which should be good for his career.

All right. Last thing on this game. We knew people love Klingin. We know people love Castle. What do you do with Newton who had this unbelievable tournament and was obviously great in the title game?

I mean, he has everything. except for a proven jumper. He's 32% in his college career. He's been around 32% throughout his entire college career. But, I mean, he's a good combo gar with size, 6-5. We can see the way him and Castle defended together as a duo and so many different matchups throughout the season where, you can't attack either of them.

I think with him, the playmaking, he is a solid playmaker, good connective piece, maybe not a primary guy, but how much does that jumper improve? Are you betting on it improving when he is an 83% guy from the line in his career in college? He has touch. You see the touch around the basket. You see the touch from the line.

Is it something mechanical with his shot from three that a team feels like, we can fix this right up and get you close to 40% from three? If that happens, the dude is going to be in the NBA playing regular minutes for a long, long, long time. I think the other thing that you love, And this is true of that Villanova team from way back when, who was a dominant college basketball team, is that you watch these guys and you go,

these guys, A, know how to play, B, they know how to play within a team concept, right? They are great team basketball players. Yes. And NBA teams, not only want those, they're also the kind of guys that can stay in the league for 10 plus years by being great team basketball. basketball players. And these kids have proven that they are unselfish and that they are willing to

sacrifice for the greater good because it could have been any manner of players that led them in scoring last night. And that is just not true of most basketball teams in the world. And I think it speaks to the kids and the buy-in that Hurley gets from them on both ends in order to play that the way they do, and I think that it actually is going to help all of their collective draft stock a great deal, because you're going to look at those guys and go, these guys know how to be on a great team and also play a role within a great team. All of them. All of them. I mean, we saw that with Caraband and the game against Alabama. He had two blocks in the second half against Mark Sears. He showed how he's more than just a shooter. We saw that with Cam

Spencer in the final against Purdue. Against Alabama, early in the game, UConn, Alabama's defense is sagging off of Stefan Castle. And Yukon's like, okay, we'll take that shot. And they got going with Castle from three. They used Castle and other actions to get him going towards the basket against that sagging defense. And then against Purdue, they're running pick and rolls with Cam Spencer to attack weak defenders, creating shots with him. He's such a swervy little ball handler.

You know, he can get into the pain. He uses pivots and pump fakes, create space for himself. He can shoot the hell out of the ball from three. and they got him going early in the game. All of those guys are selfless players. They're all smart players. They all know how to screen. You see Stefan Castle as a freshman guard,

five-star recruit willing to set screens. He's a guy that went there to win, and he did show he can win. And I think with all of them, you can on one hand say, well, they're in a perfect situation. There's five NBA prospects in the starting five. Of course, they're highlighted to look as good as they can be.

Well, on the other hand, you can say, there's five NBA players and they're used in a gorgeous system that is very much NBA-like that did put on display exactly the way you want to see them use in the NBA. They were not asked to do more or less. They were asked to do exactly what you dream of them doing in the NBA. That's right. And I feel like with all five of them, I believe, are draftable players. I think all five of them should be drafted. It's just a matter of where because with Tristan Newton,

if the jumper does come along, despite his age, you could argue he's a first round prospect. Two-way ability at 6-5 who can defend, who minimizes mistakes on offense, if he can also be a good shooter on top of that, which he hasn't been in college. But if he can be, which you saw in the tournament at times,

I mean, he hit two-threes in the final. And it can improve. You can improve that. You can get in the gym. 80% guy from a free throw line. There's plenty of reason to believe that he can improve as a shooter. I mean, it is so unlike so many other prospects where they're below 70% from the line where they don't have touched near the basket.

There's a lot of reasons to believe Newton can improve a shot. And I think all five of them should and will get drafted. And that's kind of, I mean, assuming, you know, all five of them go through. Castle will clinging. I can't imagine why he wouldn't. But all the others will. Somebody tweeted us Conley about Newton, which is an interesting cop. Like a bigger Mike Conley?

I covered Conley early in his career and he couldn't shoot a lick either. But he got in the gym and developed into a fantastic shooter, you know, and he was just not a guy. And Conley, still to this day, one of the better shooters than the NBA. Oh, yeah. Yep. Oh, wow, Mike Conley. I just pulled up his numbers. Mike Conley in college, 69% from the free throw line, nice, 30% from three. I kind of had forgotten his numbers were so low at Ohio State. And even early in the NBA, I mean, he's been a 82% guy in his career, but his first four years of his career, you know, below 80%.

So, yeah, good on Mike Conley improving a shot over the years. And still is still kicking it. I actually got to catch up with him this weekend. He, as a great teammate. Marcus sold Jersey retirement, right? And he flew in for it. How cool is that, huh? And then they had a game in LA the next night.

Isn't that amazing? Yeah, super cool of him. Yeah, that must have been so cool to see all those guys together. That must have been like one of those special nights that you and any fan and attendance or even just watching from home on TV, you guys are going to remember that forever. How did you like the ceremony? after the game. I'm a fan of it.

I think the post game ceremony is best because it can go along. That's right. Yes. And it also made you completely forget about the miserable game that you just watched. The game is irrelevant. You're there for the ceremony.

Which, by the way, I do want to say, I do want to mention something because of being at that game. That was my opportunity. I was so thrilled that MB played in the game because I wanted to see him out there person. And when I tell you, this guy did not try at all, Kevin. And he had 30 and 12 in 20 minutes. It was unbelievable.

So my questions of how is Joe L.M.B. going to look? I had watched him play against Miami, you know, right before we had done the pod last week. And then I got to see him in person on Saturday. and would I tell you he had 30 and 12 without trying in 20 minutes, it was the craziest thing. It would truly, I mean, I get it. He was playing against guys that are G-League players, but still, it was something to behold

and made me feel a lot more confident about what he could bring to the table as he gets this ramp up before they get to the playoffs. Get in on all the NBA buzzer-beaters, ankle-breakers, and Tomahog jams with Fandul. America's number one sports because right now new customers get $150 and bonus bets guaranteed when you place your first $5 bet. If you've been thinking about joining Fandul, there's no better time to get in on the action than now the final stretch of the NBA season. The app is easy to use and there's so many different ways to bet with live same game parlay.

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See terms at sportsbook.Fandul.com. As we've said many times, we kind of know the, we know all of the teams that are going to be involved in this playoff and play in at this point. with the warriors pulling away from the rockets. And with, we know that it's going to be Atlanta and Chicago at that bottom game in the Eastern Conference. And then there's still some stuff to be decided within the top eight on both sides. A lot of stuff to be decided. Lining up the schedules with three or four games left and trying to figure out the way this is all going to hash out and then doing the tiebreakers is like nearly impossible to know exactly how it's going to play out. So I've put together both conferences and much like they do in wrestling, I'm doing the dream booking of this.

If this could play out, what is the best way that this could play out in terms of matchups that I would want to see? So I'm going to go through these and then you tell me if you agree, okay? In the Eastern Conference, if this could all hash out the right one, way. I would want Boston versus Philly. I would want Bucks versus Heat. I would want Knicks versus Pacers. And we could replay all the Reggie Miller 90 stuff and we could get Spike Lee on the front row yelling at Halliburton. And I would want Orlando and Cleveland. Now, this is how, and again, it's probably not going to hash out the way I'm dream booking this. But just hear me out. Philly is 28 and 7 when they have.

had M-Bed and Maxi both available. That is an 80% win rate, which is just a tick above the Celtics, which is 79.5. So to say that they are not an eight seed is the understatement of the century. But if some way, somehow, they ended up the eight seed, then we get to see them play against the best of the best. And what would or possibly could be an Eastern Conference for finals matchup that we would never get to see. This is only real way probably to get to see it is if they match up in that first round because them both, you never know the way the playoffs are going to go. You're never going to go to bad injuries, whatever else.

But also, you're going to get those two teams playing against each other at what appears to be peak of powers. And it's more about would I rather see those two. play against each other than the Bucks in Philly because that would be the other choice or I guess Orlando could flip the standings on the Bucks still. But if we're doing dream booking, I would love to see the Doc Rivers. Now he gets a crack at the heat. There's really no bad option there because Doc Rivers coaching against Philadelphia would be

great as well. Yeah. See, to me, that's my dream booking is Doc Rivers and the Bucks, reeling at the end of the regular season going against the sixers of the first round. That beat, that's my dream first round match of it. It is. Seeing those two teams face off because you got the sixers like we said on the show last week. They're now five and oh, uh, their last five games. They have three games left versus Detroit versus Orlando versus Brooklyn. They could finish eight and now in the year. Going into the playoffs where it's the bucks. Or they got to get this fixed team meetings. I know.

They seem like a team falling apart, you know, dame dealing with a groin injury. They just feel like despite all the promise and, you know, at one point, their defense was looking like it was rocking. We talked about, you know, early in March. Can you imagine, though, if they might have to change my finals pick, Chris. We both might have to change our final. I know. They give you no, they can never just give you like two. week straight.

Seriously. It's so frustrating. Oh, my God. And that whole Toronto, Memphis, Washington stretch, I mean, that is appalling. No kidding. Truly appalling. None of those teams, those teams are playing guys that nobody, like, you truly have to look them up.

I just got an email this morning that Memphis signed a 10-day with a guy named Jack White. I was hoping it was. I was hoping it was. is I'm going to Wichita. Do do, do, do, do. I was like, Jack White. And at this point, if Jack White wouldn't play guard for the Grizzlies in these last three

games, the Jack White, or Meg White for that matter, it would not shock me. Or Meg White. This is who they're playing against, though. This is who the Bucks can't beat. Jack White of the world. Like, they're literally signing people I've never heard of in my life. Or Meg White. Yeah, Meg White.

I want to sign them both. Maybe we can get them to play a postgame concert, a reunion. Oh, I'd love that. I'll fly out like Mike Conley did for that show. Jack, Jack White's one of my favorite live artists I've seen. He's awesome live, dude. I saw them in person one time, and it's before they broke up. It was on their last two of them.

and they were absolutely unbelievable. And then I saw him with the, what's the other band? The rackintours. I saw him with them too. I mean, he's got so many freaking bands, dude, over the years. Imagine how disappointed I'm going to be when this is a different Jack White that the Memphis signed that I'm going to go watch. You know, one of the weird things about the Bucks, so they've lost six out of their last seven games over this stretch of losing six out of seven. the starting lineup with Brooke,

Janice, Middleton, Lillard, Beasley. That five-man lineup is still a plus eight. Well, and they're horrible without Lillard. I mean, they can't win a game without him.

Oh, for sure, they can't at all. No. But that, but my point is that, oh, no,

their numbers all year have been good. But that five men is still good. Yeah. Even during a stretch, like as it has been all season long. You would rather see them play Miami. Yeah, I think so. After losing the Miami last year, the rematch in the first round,

can they get through them? That'd be cool. At the same time, though, Chris, the Bucks are only a game up on both the Magic and the Nicks, a game and a half up on the Cavs, two and a half up on the Pacers. So they could fall to four or five. That is possible that that could happen,

where maybe their matchup ends up being, The Nix or the Cavs or the Pacers. They have two games against Orlando, so it's a real possibility. I know, exactly. That's why I was dream booking this thing, again, because these matchups are not going to play out this way. I'm just dream booking it, like the best possible collection of series. I put Orlando and Cleveland against each other because I want to see one of them,

you know, I don't want to see both of them get ousted, and then there's no new blood in that second round and I want one of them to have that achievement. Pacer's versus magic too, you can get that result as well. You can, but on the Pacers front, you've got all that Nick's history with them. Yeah, I know, that'd be cool. You know what I mean?

And it would just kind of be nostalgic. For a history buff. Yeah. Yeah. Whereas I think New York and Orlando would play like, I mean, Jesus Christ, they'd be the scores would be 82 to 80. In those, I mean, it'd be miserable. And Cleveland as well, both of them,

I just don't think it'd be, I like the, I like the contrast in styles because at least the Pacers just fly up and down the court and are trying to beat you with offense. Whereas Orlando, Cleveland, and New York are all going to be willing to play knock down, drag out games. Is there a chance that we see the Knicks take the two seed here? And the reason why, again, like you said, it's tough to figure out. with the schedules, but the next final four games of the season. They have two games against the Bulls, one game against the Nets, one game against the Celtics, whereas the Magic have two games against the Bucks, one game against the Sixers, one against the Rockets. And then the Bucks, they have the Celtics tonight, two against the Magic and a game against Oklahoma City. Oklahoma

City is trying to win games as well. The Bucks could lose out unless like they close. flip the switch now. They could lose out. And the Knicks do have the easier schedule between them in Orlando. So it's tough to figure out the overlapping games and matchups, but maybe the Knicks could slide up the two. You can't rule that out. You can't.

And then would you rather see them play Philly or Miami? Miami. So we get the old videos of Jeff Van Gundy hanging on a guy's ankle? I don't know. but then at the same time, I'd love to see Boston, Miami in the first round, too, considering their history against each other.

Honestly, man, a lot of the matchup combinations are pretty exciting. They are pretty good. They're pretty good combinations. And somehow they're probably not even as exciting as the matchup combinations in the West. And here's the crazy thing. We're talking about this,

like seven and eight are determined. And all you need is one massive Trey Young game. He's coming back. Or you need one massive, massive DeMar de Rosa game. I mean, in the end, it is a 48 minute game. You never know. And so it might not even be Miami and Philly that are participating in those seven and eight seeds because you're still going to have to play. I mean, I think we've all just decided that

that nine and ten games is not going to make a difference in the east, whereas we think it will in the West. But that's always when something crazy happens. And again, it's a one game set. comes out of that Atlanta, Chicago game, it's one game. They're playing against the loser of that seven and eight. And anything can happen in one game. And by the way, the seven, eight might not be Philly versus Miami. Philly right now is only one game back from Indiana for the six seed. And they have no reason to believe that they're losing a game.

Oh, for sure. They could win out and grab the sixth seed. Unlikely you get to five. You're two games back from the Cavs. But then again, you never know. The calves are really sliding right now. They've lost three in a row. They have Memphis, Indiana, Charlotte, though.

So they should at least win one or those. They should win two of those. Well, and then it's possible it could hash out where Milwaukee falls down to three. And next thing you know, they're playing the six, which is Philly. And you've got the friggin' dock rivers, the Pat Bev's thing. I mean, you got so much heat with that. You do. It would be so awesome.

I hope we get Sixers bucks. That's my dream matchup. If I could choose any in the East, it's Sixers bucks in the first round. All right. On the West side, this is a little bit harder, honestly, trying to figure out who I wanted. So this is what I came up with. I came up with Minnesota versus Golden State, Denver versus the winner of Lakers Pelicans, O KC versus Phoenix

and Clippers Dallas. I'm fine with the Clippers of Dallas playing against each other. Luca versus those wings. I agree. You know, it's a great series. And they faced each other twice in the past.

Yes. Yes. Yes. So I'm fine with that one. We could keep four or five and then just trying to figure out who I want. And so this was like basically

a contrast in styles type of thing. And so that would be that Denver would then play, Golden State somehow gets up to eight. They win their 9-10 game. Well, I guess I can't have that. Well, I need the, in this scenario, again, this is dream booking. I'd need the Lakers to move up, right? And so then the Lakers would move up and play in the 7-8 game and then win that or lose that,

dependent upon. And I guess if it turned out that way, if they, obviously, if they lost it, they couldn't get in by losing to Golden State, but maybe it plays out where they win that game, and then Golden State plays the Pelicans. I mean, again, I'm just trying to dream book this thing and try to come up with the matchups. So I had Minnesota versus Golden State, Denver versus L.A. or the Pelicans in the first round, because that's a big thing, right? You've got Yokic getting tested immediately, and both those teams have real size.

I just feel like Denver would wipe the floor with any of those miniature teams. I know they would, but at least maybe you could have some fun with Zion and Valanchunis and that whole crew with the Pelicans or with the Lakers. And though they have not had success against Denver, they've got size at least and they've got experience. So it gives them at least a fun matchup. And then OKC Phoenix would be an absolute blast to watch. I'm a little surprised you're not asking for. okay C versus the Lakers to see who I pick. Oh,

geez. I know who you'd pick. OKC's got to get healthy, man. Like, you know, Gildes Alexander and Jalen Williams have been sitting out. They've obviously hit a rough patch here. But the most important thing is not their seating.

It's about them getting, being available and feeling great when it comes playoff time. Because it goes without saying they desperately need both of those guys involved. And it doesn't seem. like there's any reason for serious worry. But it's always a concern when guys are sitting out towards the tail end of the season. Minnesota, it seems like there's positive news regarding towns.

So we might get to see towns as a playoff performer. But which of those would you switch? I went Minnesota, Golden State, Denver versus the Lakers or Pelicans, OKC Phoenix, Clippers, Dallas. I mean, Clippers Mavericks, I want that locked in. I would love to see Clippers Mavericks because Luca has lost to Kauai Leonard and like those Clippers teams in the first round twice. His first two times in the playoffs, it'd be cool to see them rematch again. Lock that in.

Clippers Mavericks. For the three seed, let's assume Oklahoma City stays as the three. Yeah, I want to see Lake. I do want to see that clash of style. So I want to see the Lakers move up to six in that situation or O KC's the two and the Lakers or the seven, something like that. I want to see that clash of styles. I want to see OKC challenged against the Lakers size and see if they can do what they

haven't really been able to successfully do during the course of the season. I think that would be an awesome test for them. So I want to see OKC Lakers. And you would pick the Lakers. I know you. I told you that months ago. We'll see. We'll see what the matchup.

Yeah. Closing the season, incredibly strong. Man, all the matchups are so good. All of them. Well, you've got to pick one for Denver.

Who would you want Denver to play? I haven't picked one for Minnesota either. Oh, I guess Denver Phoenix would be great. Yeah, Denver Phoenix, I want to see. Phoenix was the greatest. challenge last year for Denver

and their West Run. So Denver Phoenix and then Minnesota against the winner of Warriors Pelicans will go with. And, you know, Kings fans are screaming right now like they're leaving them out, but they're injured team. They're not at full strength. I don't

think that they'd be an interesting matchup for really any of those top seeds, unfortunately. Right now, the Sons are 23 and 14 when they have all three. of the guys, eight and four against the top 10 in the West. And all their last four games are against that group.

And so they're probably going to need to win three of four to end the season in order to stay in that six seed. You know? And if they do, then everybody's going to be back on the, should we start believing in the suns, right? If they can get through this gauntlet of a schedule at the end, that especially these last four, by winning three or four, then everybody will be like, hold the phone now.

Like, let's look at their record when they've got the guys. 23 and 14 is a great record to have. And that's what their record is when they've got Durant, Booker, and Beal, and yet still nobody believes in them. You know, because much like so many of these teams,

it's like as soon as you start, then they have some kind of ridiculous loss that you're like, what? What's going on here? I can't remember a year where you've got so many teams that are hard to believe in, that you can really, you know, that's why Dallas stands out like a sore thumb. It's like, okay, they have been totally awesome for now we're going on a couple of months. And everybody agrees that they are the ones that you want to try to stay away from if you can.

That being said, they're playing one of those ones, possibly in the Clippers, where it's like they just won without Kauai Leonard. Like they just had a run without Kauai Leonard, where he's, they've been without him for four games that they've won six of their last seven to keep their top four spot. And so you figure it out, including coming back from what, 26 down over the weekend. 26 points. Paul George, you know, the go-ahead jumper against the cat.

He had an awesome second half. I'm curious with the play-in teams. Right now, it's Pelicans, Kings, Lakers, Warriors. Of those four, which two do you most prefer to see advance to the playoffs? The Kings are, you know, I don't disrespect them nearly as much as you, but they're too hobbled. They're too hobbled. Yeah, they're too hobbled. They are.

They're way too hobbled. So it's somebody that could get to the second round. And so now you're down to the Lakers, the Warriors, and the Pelicans. And I'm not saying this to be a Pelican's Aater. But obviously, this could be last run for the Warriors. This is probably the last time we're seeing them in this state. So I would like to see them in the playoffs, right? I mean, you go out with a whimper if you lose in the friggin' play in, and then you're gone.

I would like to see the Warriors in the playoffs because I think that they've been one of the great franchises, great teams for, you know, a long, long time now. And I don't think we're, I don't think this is the last go round for Steph, Clay, and Draymond, one way or another. Which, by the way, the reason I had them against Minnesota in the first round is because not only do, is it the contrast in styles, it's also Draymond Green choked Rudy Gobert. Like, I want to see this.

I want to see them having to go. up against each other for a playoff series. Can you imagine the drama in that? Oh, my God. Every game would be something. Every game. So that's why I went Warriors and Lakers on that. And Lakers just, I mean, I feel really bad for Lakers fans.

I mean, this is like, you know, the most you've ever gotten LeBron and AD, 1,700 minutes played in unison, and you still stink. Like, that's tough. I feel bad for them. More minutes played in unison than the past two seasons combined. And, you know, just trying to play your way in. You know, I think I speak for all NBA fans. I just feel really bad for the Lakers.

And I just want that underdog. I just want that underdog story. I mean, I love their small, they're a small family-owned organization. If you told me that the Lakers are going to play against Denver, I'm signing up for it. If you tell me they're playing against OKC, I'm not. Yeah, because you don't want to see it beat OKC.

That's why. I don't want to see him beat OKC and get every call. And Denver wiping the floor with them again would be funny. Denver should wipe the floor with them and then draft Brony. draft Friday. No, I think No, those are why those are all my dream matchups. But it's going to be fun.

We're going to get to watch a play out over the course of the next couple of days, and we will reconvene on Thursday, and we can go through some of our thoughts as the season is going to be very, very close to wrapping up. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always, and Kevin, I will talk to you on Thursday. Have a good week.

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