The Mismatch - BREAKING: Kevin Durant Staying in Brooklyn. What’s Next for the Nets?

Episode Date: August 23, 2022

Verno and KOC return as they discuss Kevin Durant backtracking his trade request to remain with the Nets (01:14). Verno shares what he believes to be the turning point on KD changing his mind (07:40). Now that KD has decided to stay, the guys debate how the Nets will look this season (24:55). Is it possible KD asks for another trade? Or would the Nets explore moving any other players? Also, why the Lakers have a better chance of winning the championship than the Nets, and how the Rudy Gobert trade simply ruined everything (35:28). Have a question for us? Send us questions for our next episode at [e-mail]. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome to the mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. He does every Tuesday from the ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Conter, Kevin O'Campbell. Kevin O'Connor! Burnow! It's been so long. Imani Bates isn't with Memphis anymore.

That's our breaking news of the day. Immany Bates. It's been a long time since we've spoken. Well, look, since we've spoken, Kevin Durant wanted out of Brooklyn, and now it seems like he's going to stay in Brooklyn. Wow. That is of all the days for us.

Now, let me just tell us. We did not plan this. No, we were coming back today, and neither of us. By the way, we never said goodbye. We should have, we should have. I don't think we knew we'd be off for two weeks. So just the timing, people, trips, and we apologize.

There wasn't that much going on. No, they really wasn't. Look, we took you all the way through Summer League, free agency, everything else. And now we're back. And thank you, Kevin Durant. Though neither of us have a relationship with Kevin Durant where we could ask him to plant this story today. I remember when we were doing shows. talking about the odds in Vegas and I said, look, this guy is not going to be there, Kevin.

Like, there's no way they're putting these odds out there if the expectation is he's going to be there. Because if he's going to be there. So I hope somebody went out there and got those odds because it appears as if Kevin Durant is in fact going to be in Brooklyn. In fact, it said so on Brooklyn Nets letterhead. this morning. So just to refresh, everybody, since we last spoke,

Kevin Durant had a meeting with Joe Sy, and it didn't go very well. He wanted a new GM, he wanted a new head coach. And so things kind of calmed down a little bit after that. Joe Sy, the owner of the Nets,

came out and said, I'm standing by my guys. And so then it seemed like kind of an impasse. And every once in a while, there would be a rumor about, hey, maybe the Celtics are talking to the nets about this, or maybe the heat can get involved, or, hey, maybe the suns aren't completely out of it. And then yesterday it was, hey, maybe the Memphis Grizzlies are a potential suitor.

And then as we get up this morning, there's a report from Sean Sharania that says, Kevin Durant, Joe Sy, Sean Marks, and Steve Nash, along with his representation, Rich Climann. And I think it mentions Joe Sy's wife also, she was there. Clara, yep. They all got together. They had this big meeting. They all walked out of the meeting, singing kumbaya,

ready to face the upcoming NBA season in lockstep with a partnership that they are so happy with. Everybody's on the same page and ready to build and towards a championship season for the A lasting franchise. A lasting franchise. So they're looking forward. It's not just one month or one year. It's four years. A lasting franchise.

That's what they want. Sure was a lot of drama to get to this point. I like the Bill Simmons reaction tweet. The Bill Simmons reaction sweet on behalf of everyone at the ringer, I'd like to thank the Nets, Kevin Reed, for two months of lively, provocative, of an ultimately meaningless content for podcasts and written pieces. It might not be meaningless, though. I mean, like, there's always a chance in February.

He's like, oh, at that point, maybe he'll want out again. But the fact that the Nets got what they wanted here, Chris, and they're getting time with Katie, Kyrie, and Ben Simmons, with all the roster changes they made this summer. The Nets could be really good. I mean, like, the grass isn't always greener for Katie, and it could turn out this could be for the best for him. And he might want to stay and have built.

a lasting, sustainable winner in Brooklyn. Yeah, I guess they get what they want. I mean, their roster is not bad. We forget. They got Royce O'Neill. They've got Patty Mills and Seth Curry. They went and got T.J. Warren, who could come off the bench as a heater for them.

They'll get Joe Harris back. Ben Simmons was an all-NBA-level player, you know, despite the last time we saw him and that disaster for Philly against Atlanta. You know, this guy was voted one of the top 15 players in the league, one of the best of his position, were just a few years removed from that. And so they clearly have talent.

My issue is, you know, I remember at the end of the year, and a lot of the blame was put on Kyrie Irving, but Nick Fidel, who covers the Nets for ESPN, you remember that clip I sent you? And he's like, this was the most miserable, joyless enterprise I have ever been. been a part of him like in my life. Like it's just all bad like the whole year.

And he covered Bulls, teams and Warriors teams and all manner of teams. And it just felt miserable all year long. And then it ends with that they're the only team in the playoffs that get swept. And they get swept by the Boston Celtics. And then you have this summer, which is incredibly tumultuous. You have all the Kyrie stuff again where it's like, hey, are they going to get rid of him? Are they going to have that option picked up?

What's going to happen there? You got him on the books for $37 million. And then the KD stuff and asking for a trade, Kevin, I don't think that that is out of bounds. You know, it's just kind of commonplace now. When you are one of the best players in the league, when you're 34 years old, when you feel like you, you know, you're not going to have that many more cracks at it.

And maybe you feel like this isn't what I signed up for. For whatever reason, if you ever let it all out, say like, hey, man, we had an understanding about this. And then the hardened stuff happens. And then here's what's happened with Steve Nash. Here's what's happened with Marks. And I don't like it here anymore. That's not that big of a deal. Also a lack of trust than Ben Simmons too possibly.

Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shams reported he just started playing three on three. Yeah, and they thought he was going to play in the playoffs. Just started three on three, and it's middle of August. Yeah, so if you have a, if some trust of his broken there, some way, somehow, and he says, look, I don't want to be here anymore. This is not what I signed up for.

I don't want to be here anymore. You know, everybody can take their shots at him, but that's not. That's nothing new. We've had guys request trades. I mean, that's happened since the beginning of time. Okay. But what has not happened since the beginning of time is having a meeting with an owner and saying, I want the coach and I want the GM fire.

The reason that that's so important is because as of today, with the kumbaya story, you could come out if you're Joe Sy, if you're Kevin Durant, you could say, that story that came out about that meeting with us, look, there's only two people in that meeting. So we don't know where that came from. But that's bogus. That never happened.

Was I upset? Did I voice my concerns? Indeed, I did. But I didn't ask for anybody to get fired. And Joe Sy says, he didn't, I don't know where that came from, but we need to address that now. He didn't ask for everybody, baby.

But instead, Joe Syve validated that story when he tweeted, I'm standing by my guys. There's absolutely no reason to send that message out unless that story was true. And so when that story, that's where they really screwed this whole thing up. Because I would argue, Kevin, they wanted clearly. clearly a king's ransom for Durant. Totally understandable. You weren't getting a King's Ransom for Durant after that.

You weren't. That story coming out and then the owner saying I'm standing by my guys because, yes, it makes him seem available, but if you are a... Who trades for players, Kev? Other GMs.

And if you're another GM and you're sitting there going, hold on. This guy has a private meeting with our owner and his request was to get me and the coach fired. Like, I already fired a coach for him. And he didn't just say I need a different coach. He said he needed both different. He's in charge at that point. He's in charge. And so when Josai comes out, I mean, I just think, I think that the price went down for Duran.

And then it became a realization, bro, there's no, it was probably a light market anyway for what they were wanting. There was no market for what they were wanting or what his value would be after that thing. I really think that that changed everything. That story of him saying he wanted those guys fired because we've had a million trade request over the years. We have not had a million I want. We've had coaches run out. I don't remember one where a guy met with an owner and it was so out there that he said fire everybody. That's crazy.

So the one thing we haven't learned yet, and I wonder if this detail will come out, why was there the lack of trust in Steve Nash and Sean Marks? And at the time of that story, I texted a few sources about it like, hey, what's the deal here? and it was framed to me like this is just him trying to rattle you know his way out just trying to shake things up it's not like there was any actual one specific reason it's just another means another tactic of trying to get out and break free and get out of the nets and so for katy now in this situation for the last couple weeks while we've been off there's been many reports saying how even if they were to trade kevin derwent they want to keep kary irving because woeuch had reported the lakers are willing to

give up both the 27 and the 29 and their first round picks in the distant future to get Kyrie Irving. But the Nets are saying they're going to keep him. And now it looks like there will be no Kyrie trade at all because they are keeping Kevin Durant. So for Brooklyn now, what they get is time. They get time with Kevin Durant to try to fix whatever needed to be fixed to try to show, as you said, with all these additions, Royce O'Neill, T.J. Warren, Ben Simmons coming back, hopefully staying healthy, that this is indeed. the place where he can win if there's a full trust

in the front office and the coaching staff and trying to make it works. They can't. You don't think the Nets can win here and try to get KD back. So you're saying, or at least you're suggesting, if they can't win, we could be back here again, late January, February, or next summer

with Kevin Narrant wanting out of Brooklyn. You think that could be the case? I'm saying, I'm saying compete for championships. I just don't think. You don't think the Nets have enough? I think from the moment training camp starts, it's weird. And Kevin, you are asking me to count on Kyrie Irving and Ben Simmons. No, I'm not asking you to count on them.

I'm saying the Nets get time with Kevin Durant. The Nets get time to try to prove that they can get it right. Whether that means flipping Ben Simmons in December for something else, whether that means Ben Simmons playing the best basketball of his entire last, life, whatever it is, they get time for these potential positive outcomes that are better than it would have been to trade Kevin Durant for seven first round draft picks to New Orleans or to trade him for Jalen Brown and Grant Williams and a couple of picks to Boston. Like all of the potential paths in keeping Kevin Durant include, oh, we could be in the running forward

championship, which aren't included if they were to move them. You know what I mean? It's like they totally still open to them. I just don't see how you go into training. I mean, I guess you can all walk out of me and be like, hey, yeah. Okay, so I did tell them to fire you guys, but let's just act like that didn't happen. I mean, sometimes breakups almost happen, and then people get back together, and sometimes they get married and live a happy life.

Sometimes they have more breakups and it's never happy. Okay. I'm sure we've all seen those. You know how it ended in Golden State. with the level of discontent that went on there, right? There were all those stories about how that was like kind of a joyless enterprise and he was separating himself from the team and they weren't talking and Draymond got suspended for their Tiff and all that kind of stuff

and he felt some kind of way about the way he was treated compared to the other guys. And now last year you have another reporter saying it's a joyless enterprise. Like there is like Kevin does get unhappy. and I also feel he feels to me and I've always been a Durant fan he feels like one of those guys that

you know how they do those I feel like Kevin Durant my mom is one of those ladies that if she watched QVC and you sat her down in front of the TV for four hours

to watch QVC I have no idea where this is going but I'm excited okay if my mom said down in front of the television and watch KVC. And my mom, I love her, I love her, I love my mother.

My mom would buy if they showed you 12 items, my mom would buy minimum six of them. You could sell her. What's the silliest thing she's purchased from that, from there?

She bought an extended, look. There was a branch on my house that I needed to get removed. And my mom said to me, hey, I've actually got a retractable chainsaw. And I said, hold on. My, what are you talking about?

She's like, I saw it on QBC. And I was like, all right. So I went down to her house. She gives me this chainsaw that you can like extend it So that if you've got to get to a high branch, bro, I might as well have walked up to that damn branch with a pair of scissors. It didn't cut anything, all right? It didn't even make a mark in it.

And it was hard as hell to like, I couldn't even bounce out. I'm like, this thing's going to fall and like just hit somebody in the head. This is the stupidest idea I've ever seen, right? The point is, my mother's the type that if you could convince her, you could convince her. You could convince her if she was watching and they said, we've got this thing that cuts broccoli, right? The broccoli cutter, broccoli pro, right? And it's like, here's a stalk of broccoli. And then you just press it down and here's what it does the broccoli.

By the end of 30 minutes, she would be convinced, even though she doesn't even have broccoli in her house or eat broccoli, she would be convinced she would be convinced she needs the broccoli pro. for four payments of $9999 and provide your social security number, all your bank account numbers. 100%. So what I'm telling you is Kevin Durant is exactly like my mother. And whoever is in front of him at the time can convince him of, I think he really does just change with the win. I do.

I think that you can convince him. You saw those things about he doesn't talk to James Harden. They're not speaking at all, right? And then you saw those things about him hanging out with James Hardin. And then all that Philly stuff came up. It's like, hey, could they put together Tyrese Maxie and Tobias Harrison? Maybe Durant ends up in Philly. Like, what do you mean he's friends with James Hardin again?

Like, they couldn't stand each other. You think Kevin Durant has a bunch of flex tape? Yes. At a time. He's just got a bunch of flex tape laying. And so when I see the story today about how they came out of the meeting and everything's okay, I totally buy it. I think Kevin Durant lives in the, I think it's, you can get trapped in the internet world is the real world.

But when you actually get him face to face, he couldn't be cooler. He couldn't be more normal. I find this to be true. Everyone I ever know, I know 10 people that know Kyrie Irvings that all tell me I'd love it. Like, I'm talking know him, knowing. And I'm like, dude, the guy is.

You know, you know, 10 people that are close with Kyrie? That know him. Enough. So like, yeah. Correct. Have been around him in settings where you would be around friends. I was going to say, that's like some good sourcing. So I'm telling you, no one that knows him,

no one that knows it has ever said a bad word to me about it. It is bananas. It's the people who work with him. It's people that don't know it personally. Or the people that work with them sometimes too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm saying like the people, I'm saying the people that, like, are friendly with them, right?

Yeah. Yes. They all swear by the guy and tell me he's not what he appears to be. And I'm like, this guy's wild as hell. Yeah, I mean, he might have some, you know, whack views of the world that people disagree with and all that. But so don't a lot of people. I mean, you just, both people don't care. Yeah.

They tell me if I was around him, I'd like the guy. Yeah. All right. I've pitched a podcast to like Boston, to Brooklyn, like to have them on a pod many times over the years. I think it would be cool to have like a, like his Twitch channel is where he sort of just acts, you know, he's just hanging. He's funny. And I think that's where, that's really. a lot of his fans and viewers,

that's where like the hardest of the hardcore fans get to know that Kyrie that you're speaking of, right? And I think Kevin Durant like the idea, I think if you can get in front of him, you can sell him on it. I think Jerry West probably got in front of him and sold him on Golden State. I wake up every single night of my life, and I have nightmares about losing the finals over and over again. And if I could do it over, I would have done it.

different, right? And he's like, yeah, okay, I'm, I'm in, I'm in, right? I'm in. And I bet you that three other teams that met with him felt like they had him, right? I think he is a guy that you can convince him stuff. And I think that he probably thought it was a great idea to team up with Kyrie Irving. It's a great idea to team up with James Harden. It's a great idea to get Steve Nash as my coach. It's a great idea to go to the owner and say, hey, Steve Nash and Sean Marks are the problem. Get this out of here. So are you blaming,

like Rich climbing, bad influences, so-and-so, so-called bad influences? I don't think that it's bad influences. I don't. I think that he's probably got, when you're that powerful

and you're that big and you're that awesome, very rarely, are you surrounded by people that keep it real with you? You know? Which is tough to know who to trust.

Yeah, I mean, That's why so many of these NBA guys put out rap songs and they're feroendous. Like, bro, who, like, nobody around you told you how bad that is? You know, like, I mean, they're surrounded by people because in many cases, yeah, yeah, they're the most powerful guys. I mean, that's true of anybody that's very rich and very powerful. Very rarely are they surrounded by anybody that is telling them, hey, man, that ain't it on a regular basis, right? I think he's the kind of guy that can be convinced of things.

So I bet he probably walked out of that feeling fine about the way it's going to go with the Brooklyn Nets and they probably talked it through. Because I think he's one of those guys that is different. Like that online persona that he's got going on right now and sometimes even when he's like doing interviews or whatever is much different than I think the kind of person he is. I really do believe that Kevin Durant's like a good guy. I do. And I think he's probably the kind of guy that is incredibly reasonable. But you've got to sit down and talk to him. You got to sit down to talk to him.

And when you talk to him, then he's totally agreeable. And like it's not nearly as bad as it seems. I mean, I don't know. I don't know, like how much of it is. getting convinced to buy the, you know, flex tape mentality. I mean, that might be an element of it. I think it changed. And that's about changing his mind all the time.

Guys that change their mind all the time are also easy to sell on. Sure. Whoever they're around can convince them. Emotional types you mean like that? Correct. Yeah. Yes. Where they can be pulled one way because they're feeling emotional

and those people can sometimes be convinced of things. Yeah, sure. I mean, like, I think we've all know people in our lives who can be like that, or we did know people in our lives like that. I think with Kevin Durant, regardless of some of the choices that were made, I still think going to Golden State was the wrong choice. I think either staying in OKC or going to Boston were the best choices. I still, if I fell in that way at the time, I still do now,

even looking back despite two championships, despite two finals MVP's, I think whether it's right or wrong the way he's perceived from making that choice, it's always going to go down as riding the coattails of Steph Curry and that Warriors dynasty, a 73-1 team turning your back on the team that blew a 3-1 lead. It's always going to look like that. So Katie going to Brooklyn and doing it his own way, building it his way, that choice I don't think it was necessarily wrong. I get it.

Like I understand him going there. for to be in this position, it's still weird. It's still strange that it's even at this point after this trade request, getting Nash and Marks wanting them to be fired. I wonder, Chris, like, with everything that's

transpired the last couple of months with Kevin Durant, why isn't that it seems like no matter where he goes, even if things end up panning out well, wins two championships and golds, but it doesn't feel like it's everything you're looking for. If he goes, it makes deep playoff runs,

even wins a championship in Brooklyn, is there still going to be this weird little cloud looming over about this weird situation that happened? Or is there any chance that like this was a necessity for the Nets, for Durant, for Kyrie, for Simmons, for them to move forward and for things to be totally normal? How do you see this playing out in the months to come? I think that it will be very dependent upon those other two. I mean, you've got you got Kyrie that wants to play every other game. You got Ben Simmons that has not shown any interest in playing basketball in quite some time. And so I think he's going to look around.

He's not doing it with, you know, Joe Harrison, Patty Mills, right? Nick Clarkson, he still needs to prove he can play 30 plus minutes for the entire season. They still need another center. Yeah. So like with that, so like, I just think what you're counting on, And I also think that locker room is going to suck. Well, that's what I'm saying. I think it's going to be terrible.

I think it's going to be terrible. You have a coach that the best player, knowing, they all know the best player trying to get the guy fired. Yeah. That is untenable. I'm sorry. It just is. Everybody can say, well, they're all adults or whatever. Like, bro, in the end, they all know deep down.

and everybody else on that team knows that. Okay? So that's that. And then you look and you go, who are the three best players in that locker room? And it's Kevin Durant, Ben Simmons, and Kyrie Irving. Good luck. Good luck building a culture.

There's no chance. There's no chance they can build a culture that can win at a high level with those three guys and what we do know about them. and then what we know about the head coach and where his, you know, authority is right now. And so that doesn't necessarily mean

that we won't be back at this point in January or February. We could be back here again. If things stay sour, if things don't get better, if they aren't able to make more moves to bolster the team, there's nothing stopping Kevin Durant from wanting out again later in the NBA regular season or next summer, we could be right back here again.

And so with the Nets at this point, like this is all they get is time. That's all they got here today. It's time to get it right because there's nothing stopping Kevin Durant from doing this again in the near future. Just it could be five months from now. Let me throw something at you, okay? The reason that was able to take place yesterday

with that meeting and then then coming out with this statement that there's a partnership going forward. And it had the boardroom logo was on the statement too. It wasn't just a Nets logo. It's a boardroom logo right next. All right. So the reason that that was able to happen is because Kevin Durant wanted out of this situation. And it wasn't just because of the coach and the GM.

He wanted out of the situation, whether that's because of the Ben Simmons Hardin, fiasco, whether that's because of the way they handled the Kyrie thing or the way Kyrie handled the Kyrie thing. Look, Kevin Durant has a lot of reasons that are totally reasonable as to why he wouldn't want to be there. How about this one, Kevin? The reason that was able to come out is, yes, in part, that there were not trades out there.

But also because Kevin Durant and. and that management, ownership, everything, got on the same page about the changes they want to make before they get into next season. The Kevin Durant was given assurance is, we know you don't want to come back to this, but here's the deal. We're going to change what this is.

And so here, let's all get on the same page in this. What can we do? You're going to be here. End of story. So what can we do here? you want to play with Ben? You want to play with Kyrie? You want to play with, you know what I'm saying?

Like, it is what it is. You got a four-year deal. We're going to be married to each other. So here, let's do the, let's do the therapist, the counseling right now. What can we do so that we're happy and you're happy and we're going to be married? So let's stay together for the kids, whatever. But we got to figure out the rest of this. And I think that's totally plausible, right?

And that what their roster, whatever we would evaluate is their roster right now is not what their roster is going to look like. And I do think that there will be a clue as to what Kevin Durant. So maybe we're not back here with the Kevin Durant stuff in January, February. We're sure not where the Kyrie and Ben stuff and all that. I see no chance that Kevin Durant, Kyrie, Irving, and Ben Simmons are going in as the triplets, the three best players on the net, walking into the playoffs together. No. No way.

Oh, so you think there would be a move before then? Correct. Whether it's Kevin or Ben or Kyrie? No, I think that they're probably I think they probably talk to Kevin and said, here, here's what we need to do. If it's Ben that you're worried about, we got to rehab Ben and get him playing at an all NBA level

and then we'll move him for whatever you want and move him for. I think that's the most likely. I like what it's not buying time with Kevin to get him a deal. It's buying time to be able to fix the roster so that they can. Look, we're willing to partner with you. That's what partnering is.

That means he has a say. Yes. So we're going to find out what his say is and who he wants to play with and who he doesn't. What's the reason he didn't want to be here? We ain't fixing the Sean Marks thing. We ain't fixing the NASS thing. We can't fix the roster thing. So let's sit down.

Let's figure this out together. How can we build it so that you can win a title? I think that's plausible, right? For sure. I mean, Ben Simmons seems like the most likely guy you would move. Unless Kevin Durant did want to turn his back on Kyrie Irvin. Unless it turns out that, hey, trading him to the Lakers and using those picks to get instead Turner and heels, maybe you'd rather have those pieces. I just don't see it.

I think Kyrie is there to stay. He wants him sign long term. They want to build with those two. The question would be, what do you do with Ben Simmons? What do you do there? Is he a guy that's going to be a keeper? Is he going to fully buy into being a Draymond-like player screening for Kyrie Irving, feasting on the role?

Is he going to continue defending at an all-N-B-A level in a new situation? Just because he did in Philadelphia, doesn't mean it will carry over to Brooklyn. You would hope it does. You would hope he's out there to prove himself and show that he's still one of the 15, 20 best players in the league. But no guarantees, because he also didn't choose to go to Brooklyn either.

Right? So I think that's kind of an underrated, you know, subplot of the year potentially going in for the nets here. By the way, Kevin, real quick. It's three different players that we have all known at some point in their career have alienated themselves completely from their teammates. Like not speaking to anyone else on the team.

And they're all on the same team together now. You've had Kevin do it twice. You've had Kyrie do it in Cleveland. when they were making a finals run, no less, where the reports were he didn't talk to anybody for a month. In the playoffs. Didn't even speak.

And then he didn't even play last year. And then you had Ben Simmons, who's like, he's on the Mount Rushmore of not playing. Sorry, Jalen Rose. It's going to take me a while to get rid of Mount Rushmore. But Simmons is right there. I mean, he's at the top of the list. It's crazy.

And you're going to put them all in a locker room and say, hey, everybody, fun team we got here. This sounds terrible. Miserable. They need to trade for somebody that just like, I don't know. Eudonis Asim's already resigned with the heat. He needs somebody like that.

They're just like get everybody, like all the ducks in a row. And get everybody. Like, I don't know who is going to be the voice. Poor Patty Mills just sitting over there. And he's like, God, everything was so cool in San Antonio for so long. So it's such a culture. So where do the Nets rank in the East right now? So they're behind the Celtics, behind the bucks, behind the Sixers, behind the heat.

Yes. So they're fifth then. Are they fifth? Or are they lower than that? How about the hawks? You'd put them ahead of the hawks, right? Yes. Bulls?

No. But I mean, bulls, they got healthy Lonzo, healthy Caruso. They're pretty damn good. How about Raptors? Prior to. He or two, Scotty Barnes. Certainly the, look, I just think the chemist and the culture is just abominable, truly. Is the best case scenario for the Nets?

hoisting the Larry O'Brien trophy next June? Is that actually the best case scenario? Of course. Okay, so you still think they have a chance to win the title then? I mean, they've got one of the best five to ten basketball players in the world. Okay, we're on the same page there. Guess who else has a chance? LeBron James, do I think he's going to do it?

Absolutely not. But it's foolishness to think he doesn't have a chance. Who has a better chance? The Nets are the Lakers. The Lakers. Really? Interesting. Yeah. Huh.

Again. I like the Nets roster more than the Lakers roster on paper. I didn't see Kevin Durant, you know what I mean? Like, I know his foot was on the line against Milwaukee, but his foot was on the line against Milwaukee. They didn't win. They didn't win. And his was the only team that got swept last year.

The only team in the whole NBA that got swept was his team. Now, you could retort. and say, LeBron's team didn't even make it. But there is a, it might be a far-fetched chance. Like, Anthony Davis is like a year older than Janice. We think of him like he's frigging Kareem Abdul-Jabbar now or something. We do? Yes.

People think of Anthony Davis, like, his best days are 1,000% behind him. And that is more than likely so. but when you're still in your 20s, you're not even to 30. I mean, Anthony Davis being one of the best five players in the world is still a thing that can happen. Yeah, it could. If he comes back healthy,

he returns to a defensive player of the year level. That can happen. If he's shooting the ball well, staying healthy in shape, yeah, there's a chance. That can. And if you told me that that's what that guy is, then you can put three whatevers around.

them and you got a crack. Kyrie, you can't say that about. Hell no. What? Kyrie hasn't made a team better in 10 years. What team has he been made better? I mean, that's complicated. We always have to

he made Cleveland better with LeBron there. That's 10 years ago. Pretty close. Yeah, it is pretty close to 10 years at this point. We're in 2020-23. He convinced a whole city of Boston that Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown stunk.

I mean, well, that's the other part of this. Since you just mentioned Jalen Brown, everything this, like that Bill Simmons suite that I read earlier

about how it was ultimately meaningless, not really because we don't know how this will affect other franchises and their relationship with the players

that were involved in these discussions, whether it's Jalen Brown in Boston, McHale Bridges and Phoenix, whoever it might be, Tyrese Maxie in Philadelphia, how will there be a lasting effect on the relationship

between those players and those franchises that could lead them to either leave or just be a little bit more disgruntled? We don't know the effect that's going to have. Is Jalen Brown going to get over it? I think he is, he's the most likely to not let it go. Jalen Brown.

Yeah. Two years left on his contracts. He was involved in Kauai stuff, 80 stuff, and now KV's stuff. in fairness those are the names that you know every time his name gets brought up

it should make you feel good it's like a generational player right so that makes you feel good on that end and in fairness Toronto did make the trade for Kauai Leonard and they won a title so Anthony Davis did get traded

and they won the title so I mean it's not well since you just said that are you And we held on to you. Are you at all surprised that a team didn't go over the top to get Kevin Durant then? I don't. I think they had a chance of that happening until the, I want the coach a GM fire.

But even then, are you still surprised? It's Kevin Durant. You know who he is. Bro, I'm telling you this, Kepp. I think the Gobert thing ruined it. I do. I think it ruined it. I believe that with all my heart.

Once, forget my opinion of Gobert, your opinion of Gobert, forget that. Once that was out there as that deal, it had to be so far above and beyond that deal. Once that standard is set, I think that if, let's just say, and let's just say it was, let's say that deal, right, was made for, Kevin Durant, all the picks, and then maybe it's somebody, you know, somebody that's a little bit better. Maybe they give, Minnesota gives up a little bit more than just Beasley and Beverly and Vanderbilt,

even though those are all eight-man rotation, like very valuable players to have under team, right? But all those picks and those rotation level players and whatever else, when that was, said as like, here's what they got for Rudy Gobert. I mean, what you were going to have to give up to get Kevin Durant. That's why you got to wait. And to wit, I think that's why we might have to wait on Donovan Mitchell.

Because I think that Danny Aange would have moved both. But then once he got that haul for Go-Eyman-Mitchell. He's not going to be able to get the hall for Donovan Mitchell until we get into the season, until we get to the trade deadline, until you're a little way down the road. And then he can get what he wants for Donovan Mitchell. But once the, so I think the, I think the Gobeyer deal screwed up the Durant deal, and I think the Gobert deal probably screwed up the Donovan Mitchell deal. I just think that was just such a enormous hole that we do compare things.

And so we would be sitting here going, dude, they got less for him than what they got for Gobert. That's ridiculous, right? And I think that probably it just changed everything regarding what's the fair return for Durant. That's why I think nobody ponied up. I think there's just no way you could meet the level. of return that they would have desired for Kevin Durant. I wonder now if there's, so I reported back in early July at the time, like shortly after Kevin Durant made the trade demands known that the Nets were one

of the teams that could be a Donovan Mitchell destination and obviously a lot of names have been put out there in the week since. I wonder if there's any chance at all you could see Brooklyn try to flip Ben Simmons for Donovan Mitchell. Would you be a fan of the Mitchell? How about Kyrie? You think Danny would be? infatuated once again?

No, no, no. As a way. No. No, I'm saying it as a wait. 37 million, we'll take it up. How about Simmons? Danny Aange liked Ben Simmons in the draft, loved him, viewed him as a potential centerpiece in Boston at the time. Totally away from everything.

Yep, in Utah, clean slate, built a roster around Ben Simmons. Makes a little sense for the Utah side. of things to get a 26-year-old former all-N-B-A guy. It just depends on what else would be in the deal. And for Brooklyn, strictly from the Brooklyn side, though, forget about the Utah side.

From the Brooklyn side, would that be something you would pursue? Mitchell, Kyrie, you would? Yeah, because then I've got him, even if the other flaked won out. Yeah. And you could also maybe get Jared Vanderbilt in a trade and return to.

He could be your, you know, Ben Simmons, the versatile defender on the perimeter with size. I actually don't hate that deal. I'm intrigued. And let's just say that were to happen. Let's say those discussions were to happen. The important date to remember is August 30th.

So one week from today, that's when Patrick Beverly, Jared Vanderbilt, some of these other guys on Utah's roster can be included in trades in combination with others. Because they were acquired during the off season, there's a two-month delay on allowing that to happen. But August 30th. So one week from now, that's when stuff, could really shake out with the Knicks and the Jazz

or the Nets in the Jazz or whoever, whatever team you want to fantasize about. That Nick's deal, like they're obviously like low balling now. I get the picks and whatever, but it's not even Mitchell. I mean, Evan Fournier and Obie, come on. I get it. Like, we're getting picks. We're getting a bunch of picks from anybody no matter what.

Okay. But we got to get better players than that. you got to come off IQ or Grimes I mean you got to give me some of your young guys right I'm sure that's what Danny Aid's saying did you see the Mark

Berman report saying that Tom Tibido who wants to keep Quentin Grimes over R.J. Barrett did you see that? From the New York Post. That was really reported. And Mark, I mean, I know a lot of mixed fans

don't like Berman, but I just wanted to bring it up anyway. He reported there's a Mark, Mark, Mark, Mark Berman is awful. He really is. I just wanted to bring it up as a conversation starter. You could, hey, you could Google any Memphis Grizzly's player for six years of a

playoff run and Nix and Mark Berman will have a story about them getting traded to the Nix. Markisaw, Mike Conley, no, or that they're going to sign in free agency. Zach Randolph, Tony out, you name it. Mark Berman created a. a story out of thin air every single time. He's one of those guys that like is like I'm in New York and every free agent's

going to come here. He stinks. He does. He's awful, right? Let's say it's true. It's just like 90% of what the guy writes is just nonsense. Let's just say it's true.

I don't believe it. For the sake of the discussion, let's just say Tibbs actually feels that way. Is there any logic to it from the next standpoint to give up RJ Barrett in a trade for Donovan Mitchell if it means keeping more picks potentially? Is there any logic from the next standpoint? You just

said how they should be going for Mitchell. No. There's no. There's not any logic. Okay. No. No. No. Yes. No. Zero. And the other thing is I would bet whatever you want to bet

that it's four clicks made up. I know, I know, I know, I know, I know. But I'm just saying, forget about Berman for a second. Why is Tom Tibino play in RJ Bear 48 minutes a game if he doesn't like him? Quinn Grimes didn't even play. It doesn't even make sense. I know, I know. I know. I agree.

I'm just saying I brought that up just simply because from a trade negotiation standpoint, If you want, you just said how you want to get a deal done if you're the Knicks. And what they're offering right now isn't enough. I totally agree with you. I'm just saying, is there any logic, though, in this situation to giving up RJ? Or are you, if you're the Knicks holding firm, you're not trading RJ, you're sticking to it. Okay, I'll say twofold. A, they're not taking RJ.

RJ's about to get paid. RJ's about to be up for an extension. Which has also been reported that the Jazz wouldn't want RJ Barrett. They don't want that. That's not what they're trying to do right now. They're trying to pay people. Trying to not pay people. How much of that could be from a negotiation standpoint, too?

Because if you're up to you'd any age, why wouldn't you want 21-year-old RJ Barrett who just averaged 20 points per game, good defender? Because you're about to have to sign him to $100 million. That's why. And you're trying to rebuild. Look, the Durant stuff's been big. The Donovan Mitchell stuff, you gave us that date, which is seven days from now. We are going to do another show this week.

So I do want to give everybody a heads up. Give them that email. We'll take some mailbag questions since we've got another summer episode. Obviously, we'll hit anything that breaks between now and the end of the week. But we will do a whole other round of answering your questions that you may have had for us. So give them the email address, Kevo. So you can send us questions two ways. You can either email us at NBA Mailbag at gmail.com or we'll do another tweet, Chris,

where we do like the co-tweet. You can respond to that or quote-tweet that with your question. And we'll answer some of those for the mailbag episode later this week. NBA mailbag at gmail.mail.com or look for the co-tweet that will be on both of our Twitter pages at Chris Vernon Show at Kevin O'Connor NBA. Thanks to our executive producer Jesse Lopez as always. Kevin, I'll talk to you later this week. I'm looking forward to it, Chris.

Have a going, everybody.