The Mismatch - BREAKING: Nets Fire Nash, Eye Udoka, Plus: Siakim’s Dominance, Cade’s Rise, and Kawhi’s Weird Season

Episode Date: November 1, 2022

The Nets and Steve Nash agreed to mutually part ways, so Verno and KOC discuss the fallout in Brooklyn before briefly discussing the noise around Kyrie Irving (01:09). They next discuss last night’s Pistons-Bucks game and go through Giannis’s monster start, which has helped the Bucks remain the NBA’s lone undefeated team (28:19). As the Jazz continue their winning ways, the guys debate how long it will last before Danny Ainge decides to do something (37:57). Kawhi Leonard has played only two games this season; the guys discuss his continued absence from the Clippers and debate whether there is something else going on (58:25). They lastly go through the Josh Primo situation, Myles Turner calling his shot, Jimmy Butler's belief that the Heat will win the chip, and Donovan Mitchell’s resurgence with the Cavs (01:10:17). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bill finally gave the ringers Philly crew a podcast. I'm Ben Solac. And I'm Shield Capadia. That's right. Just a couple of Philly guys with a new space to fire off some Eagles takes, get caught up in the Sixers, Chaos, and more. We'll be coming to you twice a week on Sundays and Thursdays, plus bonus episodes whenever we get Breaking News or Philly Drama.

Join the fun and follow the Ringers Philly special now on Spotify. Welcome to The Mishmatch. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me as he does every Tuesday from The Ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'O. Conflict. Kevin O. Cannabis. Kevin O'Cortside. Kevin! Oh, no! What a shocker today, man. Oh, boy. We have had a bombshell drop the day of recording.

We will get to everything that took place on Monday night and I had kind of reactions from everything that has taken place so far in the NBA. But the biggest news, let's start with the first news, which is that Steve Nash has been let go as the coach of the Brooklyn Nets. I suppose they've worded it as a mutual parting of ways. Which would be no surprise considering all the Kyrie stuff and all the drama that it would be mutual. Right. And we talked about this the other day after I had seen them in person. And, you know, before the season we had done our semi-boldt predictions. And one of them was that Nash was going to be the first coach let go.

And the reason I made that prediction is because I think I told the story then. Years and years ago, when I was covering QB. Brown, he used to talk extensively about the importance of the relationship between the head coach and the best player. If you're a coach, and he would always talk about this at the clinics he would do, if you're a coach, your best player has to be on your side. And 99% of the time in the NBA, when you see a coach that is let go or fired, And you can, and then I ask you, can you draw a line between the player and that coach? Do you think that the best player would have fought against this or would have had a problem with it? The answer is almost always no. And in fact, many times they are the agent for change in that it happening.

And so when we go into this season knowing that Kevin Durant was not exactly walking arm and arm with Steve Nash. In fact, the direct opposite, which is I'm trying to. to not play for you this upcoming year. It was doomed from the start. And then when you get off to your bad start, you always get into the situation where when things are not going to expectation, general managers are going to say,

it's not the roster. Roster's good enough to win. Coach is going to say, I can't coach. I mean, we're not, we don't even, we don't have any rim protection. We don't have enough for a perimeter defense. Like, what do you want me to do? I'm playing these guys, the best,

best way I know how. And so as a GM, you get to say it's the coach's fault once. And then. Always the first scapego. Always. Yeah. And you can't get rid of the players, right? That's the hardest thing to do to get rid of the players.

And so when you're not reaching expectations, GM or the coach, the GM always wins it the first time around. And then if they still have their failings, then the GM will lose his. job, right, if they don't meet expectations. But Nash being let go after a disappointing start, I mean, I know some people might be like, that's not even semi-bold, but I mean, this team was still, I hope that everybody that doesn't think that was semi-bold went and bet the Brooklyn under because they were like the third highest win total on the board in Vegas.

You know it would have been, you know, really semi-bowls? saying that the new coach would be Emie O'Doka. Okay, now that would have been like... Passonine, bold. Yeah, I don't even... There's no word.

But Stephen A in October, middle of October, Stephen A. Smith said that if the Selving said fired Udoca, he thinks the Nets would have fired Nash and hired Udoca immediately. So he knew something back then in October. Well,

you remember when they played in the playoffs and Udoca beat up. him with that Celtic team. And he was in the assistant coach the year prior. Swept them. Yeah. There were those stories that came out about how much they liked. Yes. He made Udoca.

Katie and Carrie, all those guys. Yeah, and how much he meant on their sidelines alongside Steve Nash. And Udoka clearly proved to be a very good coach for Boston last year. He also

beyond the being on that bench with these guys, so there's that prior relationship, you got to know there's a long-term deal with Marks, because it's all these Spurs guys, right? Mark's the Spurs guy. Udoca is the Spurs guy. They all come from that same lineage.

And so there's like a, that's not just a, from afar I viewed this coach and I really respect him. He knows him, knows him. He was there in Brooklyn with them. He valued him so much. he hired him in Brooklyn to be on that bench. And then, of course, lost him, you know, to the Celtics. But now is bringing him back.

And so I think's a lot of Udoka. There was never clear reporting on what actually took place with the Boston fallout. And here's me betting there will be clear reporting now. I'd be surprised if we don't hear the clear reporting. All we know is for sure is that there was an inappropriate workplace relationship that broke a team rule. And that is the reason for the suspension. And then there was the harassment allegations. We don't know anything about that.

But I'm sure in the coming days we would find out more about that, considering that he's back in the spotlight now. He's hired as a head coach while being suspended. It's surprising, man. I'm kind of shocked by it here, considering everything that's happening with Kyrie right now, and then you hire a coach who is currently suspended. While Ben Simmons is out for two games of the knee injury,

months after Kevin Irintam handed a trade. They couldn't be in a worse position right now. I don't understand. Okay, so let me just ask you this. Look, we don't have a lot of information yet. the same way that we found out everybody hated Russ's guts but never said a word about it until he was gone from Seattle. You know, like all the dump comes out.

Somebody in Boston is going to report all the everything. Yeah, I would think so. Yeah. Right? They've all held it back. But now all the talk is going to come to the surface. And so we're going to find out if people are going to be able to make their decisions whether or not they think that Emo Doca is worthy of being a head coach again or not.

And rumors can get out of control. I can only say this. And for what it's worth, real quick. Yeah. But the reporting that we do have, just want to insert this, is that Woj said on September 30th, is that he used, quote, crude language in his dialogue

with the female subordinate prior to the start of an improper workplace relationship with that same woman. Just wanted to insert that real quick. Okay. So I assume those will probably be text, and then that can be made, you know, somebody will probably leak that. It's the way this stuff goes. It's sad, but it is. It's the way stuff goes.

And I would, I just have this thing in my mind, like, where you remember when all the story came out and then guys were really jumping on the Celtics being like, look, there have been affairs. and guys haven't, you know, it hadn't been like this where they held a press conference and they made a big thing of it. So there are people that were coming to email though because of defense a little bit. And then Matt Barnes went on his Instagram and was like,

like, she was like shell-shocked. Like he was like shell-shocked and he's like, I just got a call. And he's like, and I just need to apologize for what I said, you know, I didn't know the whole situation before I spoke and this is a lesson about knowing. You got the guy saying it's way worse

than you ever could imagine and all that. And I was like, whoa, what? Like, Matt Barnes drove 200 miles to kick the shit out of Derek Fisher. Like, what is he mortified by? Like, this is, what is going on? And so that's always stuck in my mind of, like, a couple of the guys that, like, spoke out about it. Like, then, like, came back. And we're like, all right, maybe I jumped the gun on being overly critical of,

because this was that you know I didn't know the whole story now I do I've been alerted to the whole story and I shouldn't have said what I said and I was like what wait what happened that you feel badly about you know kind of quasi defending this guy you know and Stephen A was the one that he was out there I mean just you know ripping the Celtics for the whole deal and like when do you ever see this happened and like so we acted like the gerson rose house thing like never even happened in Minnesota. And then even since the Udoka thing, we've had a front office member of the Detroit Pistons

with a inappropriate relationship that he has been, you know, let go because of. Or suspended. Jim, Rob Murphy. And he was thrown leave for allegations of workplace misconduct. Yeah. And so I don't know, man. I don't know.

I mean, it's one of those where we'll find out, I guess, the details of are you surprised that Boston would let him? I mean Missoula is his performance and the way the team feels about him probably helps them make this decision

just to let him walk you know maybe they also don't want to deal with like the scrutiny that they would get for trying to get a second round pickback for Odoka like negotiating it you know they might just decide just to cut them clean let him go let him be Brooklyn

problem is for what the Boston side might be thinking. And for Brooklyn here, man, I mean, can't make any of this up, man. I mean, clearly this is a Sean Barks sell job. Oh, I mean, and also. You know what I mean? Like, this is the guy that could coach them. He can handle Kevin. He can handle Kyrie.

If you want to. That's what it's going to be. 100%. I mean, there's no way. I mean, I cannot imagine this. The other side of it is like you have the second note people who understandably so will Kyrie, you know, trade Simmons, and then Kevin Durant can make the decision that he wants to,

whether you trade him for a haul, or he decides to rebuild it, right? Like, that's the other side of it. This says to me that they think Kudoka is the guy who can make it work with this mess they currently have. But I don't think just changing the coach is enough to overcome what this team is in right now. It'll be interesting because it does change my opinion

on whether what they are capable of. I would say he's a better coach. He's a better coach, period. He's a way better coach than Steve Nash. Yeah. So that will be a better prepared basketball team. The next problems are, I mean, they do have basketball problems with some personnel issues

that are just going to limit what they can be. On the other side, though, if he can get them to commit to at least taking something away defensively. That team's going to be able to score enough points to beat a lot of teams. They don't have to be amazing defensively. They have to not be the worst.

They need accountability with each other. I mean, I think if Odoka can get Kyrie to hold himself accountable and KD to hold himself accountable instead of just pointing the fingers at others, if they can have a locker room culture like that, then sure they can be better.

But I think from strictly from a basketball, standpoint. It doesn't change the fact that Ben Simmons has already hurt. He's out again for a second consecutive game with a knee injury. Kyrie Irving hasn't played a lick of defense. The team lacks wings. They aren't healthy with their depth as well. And they lack a big behind Claxton that adds size and beef. Like this team has roster issues. They have guys underperforming. There's chemistry issues. And the Kyrie stuff looms over all of it. And, how that is going to develop over the coming weeks and months, we don't know at this point. Well, I mean, what you've got to pray is that you were talking about getting through and holding them accountable.

I think for in the Kyrie point, it's on and off the court holding him accountable, right? Hopefully, Udoka is the kind of guy that can get through to him. Yeah. Hopefully. I don't know if anybody can. It doesn't appear that he's very willing to listen to anybody. You know, he does a lot of the smartest guy in the. the room. I watched something. Now I know and you don't know and you're not, you know.

I mean, I... That's what it felt like during that presser on, what was it, Saturday? Yeah, it certainly. The back and forth to Nick Friedel and others. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, he's a extremely complicated guy, you know, just listening to him talk, right? On one hand, he understands his influence on the other hand. He says it's all made up. He says it's all made up. he says I'm an eunacquisition.

Yeah, right? Like, bro, what is it? Do you think you have influence? Because you think you do when it serves the purpose of the argument. But then when you have to be accountable, then you say, you don't. You're overstating my influence when it comes to the accountability of said influence. And so I don't think that, you know, I'd like to believe that with any of these guys that there's somebody that could sit down and get through to them,

but sometimes there's just not, you know. That's asking too much. Look, email with Elok is hired to coach basketball. That's what, and that's a whole other set of issues with the Brooklyn deaths right now, beyond the social implications of what Kyrie Irving promotes on a social media,

which is a whole other, it's just always, it's always something. And, you know, people can say like, oh, people are too hard on him or whatever else. I know that, you know, he certainly, whether he learns a lesson or not, he's certainly been made very aware people's opinion of what he said promoted, et cetera. And at that point, you can either decide, hey, you know what?

These people are out to get me, or they're all bozos, or they don't know what I'm talking about. they're trying to attribute to me something that I didn't even say. Or you can say, hey, where did I go wrong here? Where'd I go wrong here? Because this is not what I want people to think of me. And this is not who I am. And this is not how I conduct myself. I mean, literally a week ago, 24 hours before all this stuff hit,

I told a story on the air about all these people, coming in contact with him and just swearing by him and the way he treated people face to face. And so a guy like that in his mind goes, I don't have any biases. I don't have any hatred in my heart. I'm a good guy. I'm nice for people. And in fact, I treat people well all the time. Go ask around. You know, the way I treat. What's more important? Who I am, what I say in the way I actually treat people, or what you want to profess that I believe, just because I said I watch this and whatever. And I get it, but you get so defensive about it

that you're unwilling to see the reality and the unintended. Because I don't think he is some horrible, anti-Semitic hate-filled person. He's just been pushed down a bad, bad path with some horrible consequences potentially for a lot of people. Correct. And we know it hurts a lot of people for sure.

And he doesn't understand that. Yeah. You know what I mean? When the documentary pushes like, you know, the Holocaust that happened and uses fake quotes from Hitler at the beginnings. Yeah. It's madness. And again, it doesn't matter if you believe everything that was in there. It doesn't matter

It doesn't matter, bro It doesn't matter The second you post it and say Hey, 4 million people should go check this out It is a tacit endorsement of it It just is You know what I'm saying I mean

And that's serious material Like look I'm uh I'm looking forward to I just saw this trailer the other day Kev This movie I want to see it so badly It's called Weird. Have you seen the trailer for this?

No, I haven't seen the trailer now. All right, it's called Weird. The Al Yankovic story. And Danny Radcliffe, the guy from Harry Potter, he plays Weird Al Yankovic. And like there's a million stars in it, and it's supposed to be absolutely hilarious. All the reviews have been amazing.

And I saw the trailer. I didn't post it, but I certainly would. But if I posted the trailer, it'd be like, yo, this looks awesome. weird, the Al Yankhamek story, right? You would surmise that I am greatly interested in the Al Yankovic story. And maybe I don't agree with every joke in it or maybe there's something. You know, I don't want you to attribute everything to me.

But that's just a fictional movie that you would say, oh, he probably thinks that's funny. much less a documentary that is dealing with insanely serious, you know, topics. And so if I send that out, just not understanding that that does have an effect and that people look at that and say, I agree with this. I think this is worthy of your time, worthy to watch, and not understand. you know, that everything you watch isn't necessarily true. But I think he's, you know, look, he's a guy that watch a damn YouTube video and then said the earth was flat. Like, I mean, he is that guy.

You know these guys. I had a guy the other day who was fixing my air conditioning. Oh, my God. This guy, he's storing up on ammo for a frigging government. Oh, the government takeover. The COVID was just the start. I mean, I'm like, yo, bro, you have watched way too many YouTube videos. Like, everything's fine.

I had an Uber driver. The Uber driver I had, when I moved to L.A. in January 2018, the guy who picked me up told me he built like an underground bunker for the same reason that you're talking about, Chris. Yeah, I'll never forget that ride. I don't want to say his name, but you know who else got one? You know who else got one? Who's that? Adam Morrison. Really?

He's got one too? You never seen that? No. Oh, Adam Morrison, wild as a buck. He's got like ammo, gun, food. He can survive the nuclear war. Yeah, they're going to look really smart when there's a nuclear war, huh? Yeah, Adam Morrison.

Let's hope they don't look smart. We don't want that to happen. We're all going to be crashing at Adam. Morrison's house. Yeah. At Trump moving? Yeah.

No. He's ready, boy. He's ready. I mean, I'll tell you what, man. The Nets are really leaning into being the NBA's villains, aren't they? So is it by tonight that we find out everything that happened with IMA Udoka in Boston?

I don't know. Might be by the time people hear this podcast. We popped back on. We already recorded this morning. We hopped back on after this news was released. Crazy. Yeah. It's nuts, man.

You think Steve Nash ever coaches again? Maybe. I don't know. I mean, two-time MVP, great player. Prior to this net stint, players loved him as a trainer. You know, what Kevin Durant included, loved him. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets another chance if he wants another chance. Yeah, I would imagine he probably didn't love this.

No, of course. Yeah, his first experience, I'm sure he hated it. It couldn't have. Things could have, it's amazing sometimes in life and like true in sports as we see here. Knicks fans are so sad and disappointed and angry that they don't get Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving. And you look at them now, you know, three years later after their decision to go to Brooklyn instead. And Nets fans are overjoyed, best team in New York. And now we're here where the Nicks have a brighter future and the Nets are stuck in this mess. Sometimes in life the things that you think are best for you or the worst for you in the moment.

and it ends up being the opposite. What's best for you could be for the worst, what you think is the worst for you, could end up sending you down the best path for the best outcomes. I mean, for Brooklyn, you just never, you never could have seen it going this bad.

When the decisions happened, when they signed there, when Kevin Durant, Fult was on the line and they lost to Milwaukee, you think it's only to get better from here. You never could have seen any of this coming, man, none of it.

But now, like it could get worse. Like I said, Ben Simmons is hurt. It could get better, though. It could get better. Katie could demand another trade. Like, we don't know. It could get better.

You're right. If Udoka gets KD on his side, you know what I mean, which I'll assume he has. And he can, you know, Kyrie respects him. He gets through with him and see what he could do with Simmons. That would be an unbelievable coaching job if he can, you know, resurrect Ben Simmons. Because he is looked like the dead man so far. and he can put him in the best position to succeed. Like, look, it's not going to be worse than it is right now.

No, of course. They suck. Only if Katie says I want out, I don't want to be here. Then it gets worse for them. Yeah. I mean, regardless of what any of us feel about their decision to hire Udoca after firing Nash, and regardless of how anyone feels about the Kyrie stuff, um, where all those feelings are valid.

But for the net specifically internally, like, this is going to be tough for them to navigate, man. like to ignore all that noise that's happening outside, people sitting on the sidelines saying fight anti-Semitism at that Pacers Nets game, eight people in the front row. Like this is, I don't think this is going away, right? So for this Nets team internally,

I don't, like, this is going to be so tough to navigate for things to get better for them moving forward in the coming weeks and months, especially in the East as good as it is. Like this isn't going away. It's going to be difficult for them. It's going to be crazy because on the Adoka front, it's like,

there's something bad enough that a team that was in the NBA finals was not going to bring back their coach. Yeah. And yet, not bad enough that somebody else would be willing to hire. Two months later, in the middle of his suspension. Very weird. Yeah. Very weird, right?

Like I said, they're leading into being the villains, man. Well, in some of that. They're going to be the most hated team in basketball and sports. Yeah. And some of that might be because lawsuits would take place if he's coaching for, right? Yeah. Because I mean, I know we're going to get to the Primo situation later. But I mean, same deal, right? If this guy stays employed with us, now we're on the hook. Now we're sitting in that courtroom because we are, right? But this is our punishment. We're taking action. We're getting rid of this guy. And so, oh, God, now then that's, are going to sign primo, right?

They're up with best. Yeah. I mean, it's going to be fascinating. There's always drama. But, man, I certainly did not see this one coming. No, me neither. Nash fired and Udoka hired. And now, what if they meet the playoffs again?

Wow. Crazy. Crazy storylines. Yeah, crazy. This is truly crazy. And if I would have told you this, imagine if I would have told you this in June while the finals are going on.

It's unfathomable. Yeah. That in the middle of November, first day of November, that Udoko would be hired as Nets coach would be like, what? Unfathomable. The NBA season is underway and it's a perfect time to download

Fandul, America's number one sports book, because right now new customers get a no sweat, first bet up to $1,000. And plus, Fandle is the only sportsbook that's giving all customers three months of NBA League pass when they make a $5 bet on the NBA. On the Fandual Sportsbook app, you can combine your bets for a chance in a bigger payout with same game parlays, whether it's with the money line, point spread, player props,

and plus with live betting, you'll get updated odds on games that have already started. But if you don't want to bet on games, you can always focus on the awards, MVP, futures, rookie of the year, whatever it might be. The Fandil Sportsbook app has everything on there. It's safe, secure, and super easy to use. So download Fandle today, and use promo code mismatch to get your no sweat, first bet up to $1,000.

Make every moment more this season with Fandul, official sportsbook partner of the NBA. 21 plus in select states first online real money wager only. Bonus issue is non-withdrawable free bets that expire in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.Fandul.com. Gambling problem in Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Illinois, and Virginia.

call 1-800 gambler. In Arizona, call 1-800-9-9-7-8-8-9. In Indiana, call 1-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-9-7-7-7-7-7. In Indiana, call 1-800-000 with it. In Kansas, call 1-8-7-7-0. In Louisiana, call 1-8-7-8. In New York, call 1-8-7-8-8. Hope New York.

In Tennessee, call redline, 1-800-8-9-9-7-8-8-9. In Wyoming, call 1-8-8-2-Gabler. Hey, thanks for listening. Just a heads-up for the next hour of this podcast. We're using my Zoom audio. I had an audio equipment error with my typical podcast recording equipment. But the audio works good enough.

Appreciate you listening. I hope you have a good rest of your day and enjoy this conversation. Janice Ante Koumpo, who fell short of winning a second consecutive championship last year, has come back after also not winning an MVP, has come back with a vengeance over the first five games of the season, or at least these last five, 44 and 12, 43 and 14, 30 and 14, 34 and 17, 31 and 7. I mean, he has gone crazy in the absence of Chris Middleton.

I think Janice, who many do believe is the best player in the league right now, he's certainly staking his claim thus far. They are the only undefeated team left in the NBA. though they got taken down to the wire by the Detroit Pistons last night. And Janus has just been absolutely positively out of his mind so far, Kevin. Well, Yonis, I'm the best player in the world. I mean, that's been apparent for a couple of years now. And, you know, like you said, Chris, only a defeated team in all of basketball right now.

They remain, you know, an elite defense. They remain in elite offense. And obviously, Yonis gets a little bit of help. I mean, Drew Holiday last night, big-time shots down in the fourth quarter, hits the three-pointer to go ahead late in the game. But ultimately, though, this is driven all by Yon, both on defense with his help or on ball. And then on offense, we talked about it last week with transition. You know, he's even more dominant than he was in the past, a lack of a take file. In the half court, he's even more potent out of the post.

Last night, he had some of those fadeaways inside. statistically he's putting up more potent numbers than he ever has before from the post. This is a guy who every single year of his career continues to get better, and we're seeing it again early this season, even without Chris Middleton. So far this season, Janus is averaging 34, 13, and 5 with a 63% true shooting percentage. Come on. Yeah. What are you supposed to do, Chris?

What do you do with him? Come on. What do you do with them? 36, 13, and 5. I mean, good grief. And his P.E.R so far is 33.1. And there's actually one guy in the league whose P.E.R. is higher. As of right now, Luca Donchitz has a P.E.R. of 36.

I mean, these are the numbers so far, even through five, six games are absolutely, freakish, for lack of a better term, with these guys. Now, I actually watched that game last night, the bucks and the pistons coming down to the wire, and I could not help, but notice, as you're watching that, how unbelievable Cunningham has become. Oh, he's special. He's starting to realize, hey, my team isn't good, I need to score.

You know, and it's like, all right, these Janus numbers are absolutely freaky, But over the last four games, Cades had a 26, a 35, a 23, and a 27. I think so far, he's averaging around 23, 7, and 6. And he's in his second year in the league. I mean, I don't know. I guess we were looking for, like, who could be, who could have a breakthrough year, who could have a real assent that last month

of the season last year, the Pistons played it out. They're very competitive. Looks like they've got a real hit on Ivy and a good pairing alongside Cade. But Cade has come back bigger and stronger and certainly in total control. That bright future Pistons team that we dubbed that we knew we were going to like to watch, they're well worth watching. And a major reason is Cunningham is he, I mean, the numbers were good last year, but this is clearly the marks of a guy that is going into, right? They say the hardest thing is to go from a really good player to a star and a star to a superstar. This is like turning into star before our eyes.

At least the early signs are clearly there. I mean, he's taken over 20 shots or 20 plus shots in four straight. games. And, you know, it's so early in the season now that's half of this games, he only took 20 plus shots last season and 17, 16 total games. Wow. So, I mean, like, we're already seeing a higher volume from Kidd Cunningham just purely based on the amount of shots that he's taken. And like, in that Buck's game last night, you saw Chris, he's pulling up from midrange against that drop pick and roll by Brooke Lopez going to his left or his right. He's pulling up from three. He's coming off. He's coming off

of off-screen actions going towards the basket. He's scoring in every which way possible. He's also feeding Boyon Bogdanovich off of some of those handoff actions are off-screen actions around the elbow. So I think with Cade here, we're seeing him step up and realize I can't just be taken 14, 15, 16 shots per game for my team to have any shot of winning. I need to score at a higher volume because I'm the best player on this team. and I'm becoming one of the best players in all of basketball.

And for me to actually realize my potential, right now in my career, the volume's going to have to be there. And granted, there are different types of players. It kind of reminds me of, you remember when Nicole Iokic used to be taken sometimes, like he'd have a two-shot game, a seven-shot game, and then he's like, okay, to be unselfish, I need to score because it's for the better of my team. Granted, we're not at like an MVP stage or a contention stage for the Pistons. I think Cades already at that point where he realizes that he needs to be taking 20 plus shots.

So it's nice to see him doing that with far more regularity this season. And I don't see why it wouldn't continue. Since we last spoke, they signed the Bogdanovitch extension. That came as a little surprise. Yeah, so what did you make of that? Do you make of it that, hey, they want him to be a part of this? He's clearly been fantastic thus far. It's good for their young guys.

and maybe we'll try to fight, get to the play in, maybe get a spot, you know, will at least play it out, try to get to the play in, start winning, building a culture, and maybe try to take some lumps and some high stakes games if we can somehow get there. Or do you look at it and say, this is, we acquired this as an asset? this is now a solid asset that people don't have to worry about as being a rental, right? You're not renting it if you're going to pay, if you're going to pay up for him. If you're a contending team that can add him into the mix, that now he's got a contract that goes out further. And so that's what you're getting.

I don't know. What do you think? Do you think they did it to make it an even more desirable asset going forward? Or do you think they did it because they want him to be a part of that, even though he doesn't necessarily fit any kind of timeline for that team? I think it's a little bit of both. You know, I've heard, you know, Dwayne and Casey really loves Borgdonovic. And I think if you're in that front office, you can look at the situation

and see that he is on paper a great fit next to K, the spacing that he provides, he can do a bit off the drill for you like we've seen for years in Utah. You can have him come off those handoffs and those screens get him rolling towards the basket if he can pop out for threes. He can handle the ball a little bit too. So that helps with Cunningham, Ivy, to have that spacer or that creator. So it makes sense from a roster standpoint, from a developmental standpoint, to help those

guys along and have some infrastructure around them. At the same time, you're right, Chris. He's in his mid-30s. It'll be 35 by the time that contract ends. So for the Pistons, now you at least have a good quality player who a lot of teams in basketball would want. So next summer, when he is trade eligible again, yes, at that point he'll have more value.

They can get him, you know, trade him for a first-round draft pick if they want to. But ultimately, maybe they decide to hold on. I mean, it's about development. And maybe this team doesn't feel like they're as far away from being a playoff contender as we might on the outside, and you couldn't blame them with all the talent they have on their roster. Jane and Ivy off to a great start, your guy next to Cade starting at that lineup. Unfortunately, for me, Killian Hayes not so good off the bench, but.

And my guy Bagley hadn't even appeared yet. He has not, no. But yeah, they get some top in talent on that team, and I can understand the point in signing in for both reasons, honestly. it is probably a disappointment for a lot of teams around the league that he won't be flipped prior to the deadline though a lot of teams would have wanted by Donovish for sure Kevin what are we going to do about the Utah Jazz what is Danny a angel Santa gonna do about him he's got to break this up two consecutive wins over the Memphis Grizzlies and that's something else isn't it I think this I've watched them both a the crowd for those guys

games is crazy. You, you, if I just told you, hey, watch this game, you would think that they're like a premier team in the league that's like been winning a ton. And it's, it's crazy because you watch some of these different games around the league. And they're like, oh, man, it's just like, there's this sense of, there's a sense of like, all right, it's an event or my company had tickets or whatever. Like, you know, you're watching the game. And the third quarter starts and there's like scattered fans throughout the lower bowl.

And then even now you're into like already the fourth quarter. You're figured it's going to fill in and it never really feels in. You're like, oh, all those people just left. They got bored. They figured they just go ahead and get up for work the next day. And there's a lot of teams like that that are not competitive teams. And it's like, all right, if you got tickets or it's an event, I'll go. and maybe I'll go for a little while, whatever.

They are, it's like, they're going nutso in that arena for this jazz team that's thrown together. It's Kelly Olinning, it's Beasley. The team has like this chemistry. There's a moment two games ago where Bain hits a three. I think the Grizzlies went up like 118, 113,

something like that. Olinic hits a three. Olinic gets a layup. There's another three. and then it culminates with Beasley hitting a three and the whole team runs out and frigging him. They're all going crazy. They're high-fiving and hugging each other.

I'm like, what is going on? Like they have great chemistry. They had like 30 assists the other night. They're bopping the ball around. Colin Sexton, like, tries to go at everybody. They've got like, they got these guys that are like sharing the ball. They got heart. Like, I promise you, if he didn't break it up,

This team would win a lot more games than we would have expected them to win. Because I was super impressed. Now, the Grizzlies defense absolutely sucked. It's probably worse than the league. If it's not, I think the Pistons of Brooklyn were the only ones were the worst defensive efficiency. And that was going into last night. But last night was-

Memphis is worse now. Yeah. Oh, they're terrible. I mean, in the absence of Jared Jackson, Jr., They're down Bain last night. By the way, I've answered my question for a couple weeks ago, but don't trade Jaron Jackson Jr. Because you have to say, the Aldama.

Yeah. That was a quick one. It was a premature question for you, Chris. That was a quick one. But, I mean, look, they're down some guys, but I'm not taking anything away from Utah. They, you've got to, you know, in order to make a team look bad defensively, you got to, you got to swing the ball around. and it was just open three after open three,

and they guys that can knock him down. And this marketing thing, I mean, you know, a couple weeks ago. What's your take on him, Chris? You know, after the two games, you saw him score 23 points in the first game and then 31 points last night on even far greater efficiency.

He does everything, doesn't he? Look, you're asking me at the wrong time. My opinion, after watching those two games, this guy is frigging awesome. Like, I don't, if I had no prior opinion of Lori Markening, because I watched him in that Pelicans game earlier, and they're like, they're throwing Herb Jones at it. They're throwing everybody at him. He's just laying waste to everybody. Same thing went watching him these last couple of games.

The guy is a bucket so far for this Utah team. And I don't know, you know, it might be premature, Jeff, but we talk so. many times about, you know, the book is, the book is never written as early as sometimes we think it is. You know, there are some guys like we just mentioned Cunningham that show it very early, but opportunity, fit, you know, sometimes maturity or development within the league. It can all play a part into it coming together a little bit later for someone. And this is a guy that showed a lot of flashes.

that rat Chicago Bulls team he was on. He has not been in the most ideal places. He had a couple moments in the playoffs last year where he showed for Cleveland, you know, down the stretch. And I don't know. He's looked like a different player so far this year. And it appears to be real to me. I mean, the guy has been a bucket.

I mean, like we talked about maybe a couple episodes ago, he's still statistically not shooting the ball from three well. He's at 31%. Crazy. He's a guy who's typically around 35, 36% from three. So his numbers could get even better over the course of the season if he's able to hit his career averages. He's at 36.3% for his entire career shot over 40% once

just two years ago as last year in Chicago. So there's even a higher sense. ceiling for him. Yeah. Right? Like, but the way he's scoring is, you know, he's screening and popping for three, he's attacking clothes. I was rolling to the rim.

He's attacking the basket and transition after bringing the ball up. He's running an occasional pick and roll. He's being used all over the floor. And on top of that, I mean, I know Jai got buckets last night, but I'm pretty impressed by his defense, too. He had some of those blocks, contestant shots inside. He's after. He's doing it on both ends, man.

The block on Brooks that he swatted into the sixth row and stood over him? Oh, my God. I'm like, who is this? I'm like, who is this guy? Like, it's not the first time I've seen Lori Marketing? The people that were on Markingan Island, I mean, stocks going up. Good for a year. Yeah.

If you held, because, I mean, we we sold that thing forever ago. And now I wish I had a little. Is there something about these Bulls players? You got Lowry Market and excelling after leaving. You got Wendell Carter. Yeah. What does that mean for like a Patrick Williams or, you know,

free Kobe White? Yeah. What does it mean for one of those guys? Who knows? But I know this. I know that it is different because it is in the context of winning. with the jazz. This is not just putting up a bunch of meaningless numbers

on a team that's losing every night, which can be the case with guys. Somebody's got to score. You know, these games are having 115 points scored in them. So somebody's going to score a bunch of points. And if you're one of the better teams on one of these, or if you're one of the better players on one of the terrible teams, you know, you might just get a bunch of numbers.

but they're winning. And I think teams, I think partly there's some teams that probably go in there and think it's going to be a little easier than it is. But it's not, to me, for a bunch of guys that have been thrown together,

when you got Vanderbilt out there, marketing out there, and Colin Sexton, I mean, they're just playing together for the first time. The 30 assists a couple of nights ago is what's impressive. Oh, the ball movement's so nice, yeah.

they're like all these guys that are like chip on their shoulder cast it off because right so now some team has given up on them already some in some cases two teams right so they got a bunch of guys with like this chip on their shoulder and they're there to like play for the for the greater good and make each other better in fact I believe virtually when I was going through it last night I think I think everyone has been a discarded guy. Is that right? I don't think they have anybody that has been there.

Like even the guys that were drafted, right? Because you have that Obaji from, that they got the Cleveland deal. You have the Kessler, who was drafted by the T-Wolves. And so... And those are draft match trades, though. I get it. I get it.

I get it. But you were traded by someone already. Right? Yeah, pretty much that whole team. Yeah, the entire team. Well, Will Hardy, we have to mention him, too, that he's the guy who's, you know, orchestrating this as the first year head coach. And we talked about it during the summer, even before the IMEA Udoca stuff,

how much of a loss, you know, we were hearing that might have been for Boston, with how integral he was with some of their game planning during the postseason and the adjustments that they were making. And we're seeing already just how well he has this team playing. on bolt ends of the court with a bunch of these pieces pulled from different situations.

Nobody expects them to win. People are saying they're not a real basketball team and look at them now. They're playing at this level even if they weren't winning, even if they weren't winning these games, we'd be like,

oh yeah, the jazz looked like they got a bright future. That's what we'd be saying if they were losing. I know. Well, and some of these guys, it can be a real wake-up call. for a lot of guys. They're uncomfortable.

They feel as if, you know, they weren't good enough. They're going to now show the world. And I just went through it. Marking and discarded. Conley traded. Jordan Clarkson traded there. Olenick discarded.

Vanderbilt. Malik Beasley, Colin texted, Taylon Horton Tucker, Akbaji, Nikiel Alexander Walker, Azabuki. Literally the whole team. The whole team. Nobody's like,

A homegrown jazz player. Can I say something really dumb? Yeah. We're talking about last week, I said, the pressure's on them to, you know, blow it up and start losing games. What if they went the complete opposite way and use those picks to add players to this team, Chris? Like, what if they traded Mike Conley, Malik Beasley, or another salary with a whole bunch of picks for Kevin Durant? Oh, my God. Oh, for goodness sake.

He wanted Katie in 07 draft. He wanted Katie to come to Boston the year. He went to Gold State. What if in L in Utah, he goes and gets Kevin Durant from the sad Brooklyn Nets. How dumb of a thought is that, or is that not dumb? Pretty dumb, but I'll say. I'm just thinking like if you're an NBA team, No.

The amount of times I've heard from teams thinking of these goofy ideas. Like they think through these things, what if we did this? So I'm just trying to think about if I'm Utah, what is the most whack, you know, against the grain thing I could do? Trading a lot of those for Kevin Durant. This is playing out perfectly, though, for him. Because, look, it's an 82 game season. We're joking about this. They're going to lose games.

Yeah, the last 40, you just, like, this is the best case scenario. No, but I'm serious, though, what if they added? Like, I'm saying, like, if they added a star on top of this court, yeah. Like, I'm legitimately asking because, like, what would it mean for this team? What could they be, like, Jared Vanderbilt was one of the best rebounders basketball, really good defender. Larry Martin, and we're talking about him, like, it's sustainable.

You got Clarkson in the back court, Sexton, who you're, really like in the back court. They get some talent. So what if they added a star and like a couple other good players on top of this? Could they become... Like a star like Donovan Mitchell? No.

I said a star like Kevin Durant. Donovan Mitchell's average 28 points a game. It's a thought exercise here. It might make no sense. But like, did they have the foundation now to add a start, whether it's old man, KD, or young guy,

Victor Wenban, Yamma. The point is, is that the foundation is being laid right now. I think that's my point here. Yeah, maybe. It would be a way to go about it. I think maybe more likely that this is playing out perfectly, where they're winning games, they're building up all of the equity of all of these guys.

I think if you're a winning team, you're looking and you're going, man, we got a spot for marketing. We got a spot for Malina Beasley. They've got a spot for Malibu. We got a spot for Colin Sexton. and we got a spot for, you know, these kind of guys. They're all building up their value.

But then what does that do for the team, though? Like if your team is 500 in January and then you pull the plug on everything? I don't know. Ask Sam Presti what it does. He did it. You remember we were just talking about this a couple of years ago? He shut everybody down. Yeah, that's different than trading everybody away, though.

I mean, shutting everybody down? I mean, you literally just start losing on. purpose. Yeah, that's, you know, these guys have an injury. We're going to be conservative with you. I mean, this rebuild. This will be all right, you know, we're trading you away. There's a difference there. This rebuild just started, Kevin. Yeah, I know. You know. And it's only seven games into the season. Of course. Right. And in fact, just to wit. Eight now. Eighth six and two. So how about this? Freeze frame. Western Conference home court advantage. Portland, Phoenix, Utah, San Antonio.

That's something else. Even Phoenix in there, people were kind of out on them. And now they believe they're the only team of basketball of the top five offensive and defensive rating. That's the top four seeds in the West. Portland, Phoenix, Utah, San Antonio. As of November 1st, 2022. So I think that they're just, you know, seven games into this.

It's been fun so far. Another thing that's been fun so far is despite not having Joe L. Embedd, this Tyrese Maxy's surge feels very real. Started off they're kind of figuring out with Embed and Harden. You and I have been both big Maxi fans, but Maxi has been absolutely fantastic recently. The numbers over the course of the last. last week have all been just off the charts, including the one game that I know you highlighted

on Twitter a few days ago with the 40 plus night. 44 was it, I think. Then he was big last night, again. And he's shooting 45% from three on 6.6 shots per game. One of the best shooters in basketball, period. Wow. Wow. That's a guy who shot 30% as a rookie who at Kentucky, people were,

worried about his inconsistent scenes of a shooter. When I talked to, when I was reporting Darry-Mori story and I was in Philly for Media Day, I asked Maxie about that, like, why should we have confidence that last year wasn't just like an outlier season for you as a shooter? And he's like, because it was real. Because of the amount of work that I put into extending my range and improving my confidence, he says it's become something for me that's normal. to shoot as well as that.

And he says, I think I was just a better shooter. You know, when I was younger, I was just inconsistent. I didn't have the confidence. And you hear that all the time, confidence, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, I'm confident now. Like, you watch him play? This dude is confident. He, like, he is no fear.

He pulls up from 30 feet. He can come off screens. He can shoot every shot that there is from any area of decor. He can pull up from mid-range. He can get to the basket and finish with his, like, a hundred mile per hour, you know, slow down at the very. last moment, lay up with my left or right

hand. He can score at all three levels of the floor and his passing, even though it's a secondary asset for him, he can make the right passes. And I think for the Sixers team, Maxie's upside, in addition to Harden playing at the

great level that he is, if you can just get him beat back playing at the level he did last year or anywhere close to it, I mean, like we were high on this team before the season. We had concerns early on,

and I still think they need to make one more move. But ultimately, they have all the pieces you need to go all the way. Yeah, but it's a lot more. I think one of the parts of figuring out, I mean, you saw Harden last night with 17 assist. This now, if Maxie is that other guy, I would count on Maxie in a playoff situation much more. And so if this ascension goes where it's not just James and five guys

or four guys standing around, which, you know, you're trying to figure out what's best for James, what's best for Joel. And they were small last night. And it was pretty good. And they got the most out of De Anthony Melton that they've gotten so far. And isn't that cool they can go small? Like this, like they can just pull out small ball at any point with PJ Tucker at 5.

And it looks like the Houston days. Yep. another guy that's on a tear Pascal Seaccom man the tear continues we've mentioned it twice and your guy Coloco I remember you liked him in college

he got a start last night looking good man which was he a second rounder right yeah he had like he had three blocks I think last night he had some rebounds and you know it's not so often that this is a good team

for a second rounder to get thrown into the mix as a starter and kind of holds his own last night. Could be another in the long line of long athletic, Raptors finds, right? Or another guy that can contribute. But yeah, they started him last night, and they just-

They smacked around the hawks. Yeah, see, Ackerman that goes without saying, we talked about it a bunch last week, dominating in isolations. Like, that dude is unstoppable, bowl with a mismatch after you switch a screen against him. And Atlanta did a lot of last night and he just roasted them every single damn time. Well, the other thing is we talked about can him and Barnes be awesome together?

And that was promising because Barnes was great last night in conjunction. I was disappointed with the Atlanta side of things last night. Trey Young, Penn turnovers, three of 13, not moving off the ball, played some absolutely embarrassing defense on multiple occasions. I think it was Siak and he had picked up and then he just kind of slow down his jog and pointed at John Collins to pick him up. It's like, what is this?

What are you doing? Do you care about winning? Maybe it doesn't because it's in late October game. It's October 31st. Happy Halloween and he wants to go out and party. But I mean, I was very disappointed by that Hawks effort last night. They switched way too many screens, man. Yeah.

Other things that we need to mention. The clips have feast on those. Clips got all they wanted from the Rockets, and that's not even the story. In fact, that they won by two points or whatever it was against the Rockets. It's this Kauai Leonard thing. Still, man. Scary.

He's only appeared in two games. And now they've ruled him out of multiple games as of right now. At least the next two, he's supposedly out for their Texas Road trip. Jesus. I don't know, man. Did you see that tweet going around about Kauai? I'll give credit where Karenda does, Veda, Fly. Kauai Leonard family probably doesn't even know he's in the NBA.

Probably comes home, probably comes home, says nothing, and hops in the shower like he works overnight at Amazon. I was dying. It's dying. I don't even know he's in the NBA. Come on. We still got to be able to get these jokes off. That is hilarious.

That's good. Absolutely hilarious. Look, you laugh through the pain because I don't know what's going on. The guy's been out forever. I mean, we got to, that is a great joke. That's really good. We goofed about it, you know, and I'm like, what is going on? Like, it's coming off the bench and it's only two games and now.

So what, it's going to be at least six out of the first eight? Yep. Because I thought we're working up to this point. Yeah, it'll be seven of the first nine, right? Yeah, I guess, look, man, you want, And look, it's not just about Kauai. That has a profound impact on the team. This is supposed to be your best player.

And the expectation was he's going to be back. And Paul George went crazy last night, and they needed every bit of it to beat the rocket. And I get it. It's like, all they care about is having it ready for the playoffs. And it's like, what? I don't think we're in the business of paying guys $200 million to just be okay for the playoffs. Like theoretically, you were working your way back to this point. You were even talking last year about, hey, he might come back for the play in or the playoffs.

They make it. It's a possibility he could come back. Like, that was the word around. And it's like, okay, well, since that point, you had all the rest of the spring, the whole summer, all leading up to this. And I don't know. It just makes you wonder what is going on here? You said it in there, Chris, you know, it could be about overly cautious. We have time to get them going.

We'll get it in the playoffs as long as it's healthy in April. That's all that matters. The problem is that the Western Conference is stacked, and it's not easy to make the playoffs. What are you going to do? Make the play in win two games or one game, and then you're the seven seed against one of the best teams in the West. It just seems like you need to compete in the regular season. The regular season matters. Where you are in the standings matters.

So I think for the Clippers, I don't think it's about that, ultimately. I don't think it's about, you know, we've got to be cautious with Hawaii. We'll get into the playoffs. Everything will be cool. I think there's something going wrong here. There has to be. There's no way you play only 42 minutes in your first two games, and then you're already out after barely playing in preseason.

and also not even looking like the same Kauai Leonard we saw prior. I mean, it's not just that he wasn't playing a lot and coming off the bench, it's that he just didn't look like the same old Kauai Leder. Well, and it's like where I get it, it's like, okay, we threw him in the game and it bothered him. It didn't respond like we thought it would. Okay, but what I'm saying is there's been over a year and a half. Like you would be able to tell that it's,

His knee wasn't responding. It's not just a basketball game. You play five on five. You play three on. You work your way up to this. That's what rehab is. Do you get to the point where he trust it and the soreness goes away and you're dealing with it and it doesn't hurt? And it's all just so strange, so strange what has gone on with him.

And the whole, I mean, honestly, like all of the medical evaluations and the, and then the handling of it going all the way back to the last year in San Antonio. He didn't play all that much for the Raptors when he was there. But he made it through that entire playoffs and finals and was the best player. And then he's played what, maybe like 100 games in a clipper uniform, I think. I think he's played like 100 games. It's wild. And now it's scary because they're already ruling him out.

11 in 3 years or 4 years for the Clippers. Because he missed all of last year. He played 57, 52, 0, and currently at 2. Yeah. He's missed 5 of the last 7 and is expected to miss more from here. I mean, he was over the 11 games in his last playoff run with the Clippers, he was averaging 30 points on a 63. effective field goal percentage, which is unbelievable.

Eight rebounds, four assists, only two turnovers. He looked like one of the best players in all of the world, right? And now, you know, a year and a half later, he didn't look the same preseason, didn't look the same in as two, you know, stints off the bench with the clippers. You just hope he can get right. And at some point this year, show what he was prior, because that guy was unbelievable.

And I missed that version of Kawhi Leonard where the game just looked easy. Defensively, he dominated, stole the ball, ripped the ball out of people's hands, and then offensively he could just get anywhere he wanted, man. I miss watching Kawhi Leonard. You know how I knew something was really wrong

is I was watching those TNT games last week and there's a commercial that comes on and it's for New Balance. It's a basketball commercial and it's frigging Jack Harlow playing basketball. And I'm like, okay, all right. If they got Jack Harlow, I've seen Jack Harlow hoop. If they got Jack Harlow doing the basketball commercials,

I mean, this guy can't even film a commercial. He's like literally the face of New Balance basketball. They got Jack Harlow hooping. I'm like, who is buying basketball shoes because of Jack Harlow. What? What is going on? Like, if you want to do like some, you know, streetwear style shoes or something, let Jack Harlow sell them. They had Jack Harlow selling the hooping shoes. I'm like, this is crazy. You ever seen this jumper? I watched that thing when he played against Little Baby. Oh, my goodness. No. No. It's men's league.

You think they'd ever signed podcasters to signature shoe deals? I mean, hell. I'd go with, I'd go with New Balance. I'd go with anybody. Look, I could at least film a commercial for you. You know what I mean? You got freaking Jack Harlow doing a basketball commercial. What's your preferred sneaker?

Nike. Adita, you're Nike. I'll wear anything. I'd wear a deal. I'd try an Adidas steal. We need to get you a sketch. We need to get you a sketchers, do you? I'm not sure.

Maybe. Depends on a. The price is right. The price is right. The price is right. They pay Kevin a note. He'll be the Air O'Connor's. It depends.

It's not a preference, but it depends. How about crocs? Why not? You know who's a... There's a bunch of NBA players that are big on crocs. Oh, yeah. I've never worn them. I've heard they're amazingly comfortable, though.

Yeah, they are amazing. You have any of us? My kids have a million players. Every kid. Really? They're cool with kids? Every kid has crocs. Seriously.

No, kids don't care. So kids and kids wear sketches too all time because I mean like, you know, I mean, they're not sitting there worried about, right? Like, I think about this all time because I, you know, I'm surrounded by my, my mom and dad who are in their 70s and my kids who are not teenagers, they're in. grade school. And so I'm surrounded by both, right? Neither of which care what anybody thinks about them, right?

Kids don't care what anybody thinks about them. Old people don't care what anybody thinks about that. And somewhere in the middle, we get all screwed up where we spend all these years caring what everybody thinks about you. But if you're ever around an old person, they'll say anything. I don't care what anybody thinks about. They'll wear anything. They're caring about comfort.

And it's the same thing with a kid. They care about comfort. They're not worried about your judgment. They're not worried about it. I mean, if I didn't make my son wear clean pants to school, he would, like, he'll just go, he doesn't care if there's grass stains on his knee. He don't care. He's not a big ketchup stain on the knee.

Yeah, he's not worried about. Bro, you cannot go to school like that. Not because you care because I care, because it's a reflection of me. If I'm sending you, if I don't even wash your clothes. Like, bro, you have, you have clean clothes. But the point is, kids don't care and old people don't care. Somewhere in between, we spend all these years of our life caring what everybody thinks about us. So you're saying we should start wearing, you know.

I'm just saying there's an innocence. I'm saying there's an innocence to both that I envy. Why don't we just take it off? We can learn from it, Chris. Maybe so. You're going to wear Croxin to work tomorrow? I mean, I just don't prefer that. You know what I'm saying?

I have comfortable shoes. Let's see. Yeah. So, I mean, it's not because of the, I would. I don't care. I need some new sneakers. I'm due. Yeah, you got those lawnmower twos, right?

The ones that look like you cut, like you cut the grass in them. Wait, wait, one of those? Like you cut the ground, like you do everything in them. Like you cut the grass in them. Yeah, more than, uh, There's a picture of me with Kevin Clark that got posted it. Some people are like, what are those? They were like, what are those?

What are those? Yeah, they're like these laceless Adidas. Oh, no. That feel amazing, but they're getting a little old. I can't wear them anymore. You got to get some new kicks. Kevin O'Kicks. All right, we got to get to some of the other stories that are off the court things.

It's wild. Josh Primo's story. So we were texting the night of it dropped because we don't know what's going on when it first drops. It's like the Spurs have waived Josh Primo. And it's like, what in the hell? Guys drafted 12 overall

in the draft. They had just extended him. The quotes about him, about what they, you know, kind of viewed him as. They saw a lot of promise in him. And then he's going to, on, he comes out with a statement about, you know, some personal trauma he needs to deal with and dealing with his mental health. And so then we kind of pivot to, oh, geez, man, like,

what's going on with this guy? On one hand, I'm thinking to myself, but wait, if there's something like really wrong with them, the Spurs, we know from the DeRosen thing, they've been very, they've been a very good organization about people dealing with mental health and mental health issues and you know they they went through it with demar who was very public about his battles um and and they've dealt with it before and so you're like did he do something is this kind of covering up whatever's about to drop and then it comes out that he uh i mean he showed his private unwarranted to a team employee team employee has not been named i guess she's got the same lawyer that the defendants had in the, or the, not the defendants, but rather,

the prosecution had in the Deshaun Watson case. And so Josh Primo is accused of and you'd imagine guilty of, given that the spurs cut ties so quickly because it makes you feel like there's lawsuits that are on the horizon. I know that there's going to be a press conference where she is going to speak about it. And someone told me yesterday, for what it's worth, someone that would be in the note told me that it was not a one-time thing with Primo. And I know that somebody has reported multiple, but I was told that it was three different times.

There was something like this that happened with him. All of its first employees. I don't know if it was all employees, but it was three different times. that this has happened with him. So it's not like... That we know of. A one-time deal. I mean, when that statement was released saying,

you know, I've been seeking help to deal with previous trauma. I suffered and now going to focus on mental health. You know, if it were just that, the spurs were to kept them in support. And like, it's not just that. That feels like it's just pulling the mental health card to cover up being an absolute creeper. Yeah, right.

For a predator behavior is what the, You can't excuse everything. Of course. You know what I'm saying? Bro, you pulled out your wiener. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, I mean, I'm sure they're going to have some doctor on that's going to tell me that, you know, pulling out, pulling out your wiener is a disease and I'm intensitive.

But like, come on, bro. You know better to be yanking your wiener out when people don't want to. Yeah. When people don't want to see it. Like, I'm not going to feel bad for you. Like, that's ridiculous. And so I guess there's going to be. There's going to be more information that comes out about it.

But I mean, do you know how bad it has to be for them to cut the 12th pick in the draft? Exactly. Right. Who is shown promise? Who they're going to have to pay $8 million to. The way they did it, they didn't void his deal. They waived him and are going to pay him $8 million. They just said, peace out.

See you later. We're caught on our losses. You're out of here, dude. And they're having to pay him $8 million. to go away. You know how bad it must have been? Yep. They know.

It's first, though. Well, and they know they can't keep the guy employed. If you keep him employed, now all of a sudden you're in court. Right? Like, this was what they had to do. I got to get around unless you want to be part of these lawsuits, especially when it happens in-house. Right?

Now, where they'll be under fire is when we do the whole, when did they know? When did this happen? why didn't they do anything before they cut him? They only did this because she lawyered up. Whatever, right? Like, there's going to be a bunch more that comes out about this story. And it's probably not going to be pretty, to be honest. Probably not going to be pretty.

It's already pretty ugly. But, I mean, the guy is the 12th ticking the draft, for goodness sakes. And he's, what, 19? I know he cleared waivers. He turns 20 in December. Still just a kid. All right, God. You can make a...

You can make a mistake that ruins it all. But I guess we'll see what ends up happening with that story, but a crazy one to say the least. Miles Turner openly lobbied on Wojus podcast to get traded to the Lakers. What did he say the Lakers? If I'm in that, they take a hard look at me. I mean, I don't know if I can remember, and sometimes my memory gets fuzzy,

but where a player like openly lobbied to be traded to a place that like it's kind of been out there but not really been, you know, locked down completely. The whole Buddy Heel, Miles Turner, Westbrook of the Pigs, all that kind of stuff. Like, I can't remember you've got, you've had the ones where we've kind of known that Clutch wanted to force Anthony Davis to the Lakers or something like that. We've had it that way. But a player coming out and being like, hey, I'm pretty awesome.

You should take a look at me. Like, I can't remember a player like kind of making their own case to be traded for. I almost wouldn't do it because he did it. I'm not kidding you. I think so. The more people I talk to around the league, the more I feel the,

the Lakers won't give up their first this year. But they would wait, like we talked about last week, that they'd wait until the summer when they can trade three first. What I think the Lakers would want to do involving Miles Turner,

making his wishes come true, and Buddy Healed two, would be the one first round draft pick with multiple second rounders on top of Russell Westbro. That's what people around the league believe is what the Lakers would want to do.

And then they could go into the office, season with Turner and Healed already with one first round draft pick in the future and one in 2023, which would allow them to make another deal during the summer and would sign and trade possibilities or just all right trades, whatever it might be. I think that's what the Lakers want to do. Maybe Miles Turner on his side of things is trying to, you know, hurt some leverage from the Pacers to get a first round pick from other teams as well. Maybe that's part of the strategy. here with him outright, you know, saying that on Woolwich's pod. I don't know, but I do know, but my understanding is the Lakers are unlikely to give up both

first unless it's like some obvious deal or unless they clearly are in a position to be a top six seed. Like right now, like giving up both of those first for, you know, ruining your flexibility to the suburb just seems unrealistic. If something like that happened, I'd have to imagine the Pacers, it would just be a buyout, right? I mean, you're not doing that to Halliburton and Matherland. Oh, with Westbrook, yeah. Yeah, I would assume so.

You just buy him out and then he goes and ends up with the heat or wherever. Yeah. And that would also assume that it's both healed and Turner. I mean, if it were just Turner, that means the Lakers could put together different combinations of players, even maybe a side of us. Yeah. Openly lobbied for it, though. I know.

Weird, huh? Yes. At the same time, I get it. I mean, like, they have a lot of centers. They still get a vet in Tice. They're playing young guys, Smith, Jackson. Like, they have a lot of bigs.

So if you're Turner, you're entering free agency this coming summer. It does make sense for the Pacers to trade Turner. It genuinely does. But openly, you know, pushing for it. That's strange. Strange. I mentioned the heat in passing.

And Jimmy Butler fired off in the locker room. A very good article by Sam Amick. our buddy from the athletic. And the quote was, we're still going to win the championship, but I don't care what nobody says. Count us out. We're going to win the FN championship.

I'm telling you, I don't give a damn that we started two and five. Okay. All right, Jimmy Butler. They're going to win the championship. I mean, I'll tell you this. It'd be an unbelievable quote at two and five. If they, like, if they did it,

and then you look back, And then you look back and it's like he told you after seven games, I'm going to win the championship. I don't think it's fair to count them out. They're always a hard out. They certainly have moves that they can make. Riley is now at that point where he wants to get another title. And so you'd imagine he'll be super aggressive in trying to put together a team that can win the title. They're a shot away from beating the Celtics.

last year who represented the Eastern Conference, and that was being down some guys. And so Jimmy Butler never, with the lack of confidence, they have gotten off to this slow start, have the heat. But there he is. He's at least posting the quote that we're going to be able to look back at and either laugh at or say, he told us. Take this, I never, you never want to bet against Jimmy Bucking.

come playoff time. You know he's going to be there for it. Playoff Jimmy is a different animal. And, you know, they need, they'll have to augment their roster a little bit, but they've had a very, very aggressive general manager that I would imagine is going to be in the position to where he says, okay, if that Lowry thing doesn't look like it's going to help you towards that goal and that's not going to work out this year, then it'll be very aggressive at trying to find something that will.

work this year because they are clearly, there is no debate about them. They're in win right now mode in Miami. There's a lot of teams that have different, you know, trajectories. They are veteran-laden win this year, the title. And so they will conduct themselves as a team that's trying to win the title this year, not saying this could be better for us down the road.

or whatever. They'll make wind-down moves. They did it with Lowry, and it doesn't look so good. Hopefully it'll look better for them. But if it's clearly not going to work, they'll be super aggressive, I bet. They have to make a trade.

It's just a matter of what they do. Is it like a move around the edges with a Duncan Robinson or Kyle Lowry? Is it a crazy trade? You know, last summer, the Nets wanted BAM out of Iowa in order to trade Kevin Durand is something to that extreme.

They got to make a move, period. I wonder whatever's going to happen with the Jay Crowder thing. Because he was mentioned with them, you know, it's something that could land there. And then there was the other one. Who was it? I was watching the other night where I was like, man, they should go

make the Crowder trade. Oh, Cleveland. Because it kind of got that one spot where Lavert went crazy the other night. I think he had like zero or one, you know, maybe the next. I mean, you know, he's a heater off the bench that's best suited for that. I know they've been running Dean Wade out there some. Wade looks good.

Lavert out there. You know, that poor kid, Okoro, he is. I mean, he won't even shoot the ball. Yeah, he just can't shoot. He's a number five pick overall. And that's the spot you're talking about where. Jay Crowder fills that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm just trying to, yeah. Like, they need a three. That's the only thing they're missing. They get Garland back? Yeah. You got a three and you run out there with that group. You run out there with Garland, Mitchell, Crowder with Alan and Mobley? That'd be nice, man, especially with Mitchell playing the level that he is.

Remember when the trade was made and we were talking about he needs to be the guy he was in college on defense? He's that guy again. He's flying around. on defense, tough, hard-nosed-on-ball, active off-ball. This is what Utah was missing the last couple of years. So it's cool to see him bring that back on top of shooting the shit out of it, scoring from everywhere. Kevin, it is always a pleasure.

Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always. And I will talk to you on Friday. Looking forward to it.