The Mismatch - Bronny James, Reed Sheppard, and Summer League Observations. Plus: Jalen Brunson’s Extension.

Episode Date: July 16, 2024

Verno and KOC are live from Las Vegas as they recap their Vegas trip before diving into the summer league action. They discuss Reed Sheppard’s impressive debut performance, debate if Tidjane Salaun will become the best French player from this draft class, get into what DaRon Holmes's unfortunate injury means for the Nuggets, and more. Also, they discuss Jalen Brunson’s extension and why he decided to take a lot less money to stay with the Knicks. Got a question for Verno and KOC? Send them an email at [e-mail]!Or you can send the guys a tweet @ChrisVernonShow and @KevinOConnorNBA! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer:s Jessie Lopez and Isaiah Blakely Social: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, my name is Dave Gonzalez, and I haven't read any of the books in George R. Martin's The Song of Ice and Fire. I'm Joanna Robinson and I've read every book in Georgia R. Martins, a song of ice and fire. And I'm Neil Miller and I have also read those very heavy books. Years ago, we hosted a Game of Thrones podcast called a Storm Spoilers, and we're thrilled to head back to Westrose to cover the second season of House of the Dragon on the Trial by Content feed. We'll be using our book knowledge to dive deep into each episode and answer your lingering questions. So send us a Raven every week to Trial by Content at Gmail. com.

Follow and subscribe to to trial by content on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast to join us on Thursdays where these two

will explain to me which Targaryen is right. Welcome to the mismatch I'm Chris Vernon and joining me live in Las Vegas Nevada for Sover League

is Kevin O'Connor from the ringer.com a.k.a. Kevin O.O.comer, Kevin O. Kahn Kevin O. Candyland. Kevin O. Blazerian. Kevin O. Sphere in the shadows of the

sphere. Kevin O. Oh, live and in person, our annual live in Vegas. Last time we saw Chris Angel, Chris Vernon, Chris Angel, great idea. We did go see Chris Angel. So one of the things that I've learned about Las Vegas Summer League, I've been coming out here for many years. And my producer from back home, Rosa, I had told him, I said, look, now, every year,

we never regret going to shows. We never regret going somewhere great to eat. We always regret going out or sitting at the, gambling all night. That's true. And you just lose money. Who likes to lose money? So this year, we have decided to actually put into action trying to go to either

great restaurants or go to shows. And so I've been here since Thursday night. Friday night I did Garth Brooks. It was a 50 out of 10. He has like no set list. Takes like fan requests and whatever plays all kinds of songs that you like. like would never hear him play. Deep cuts, like the hardcore,

Brooks fans might love. At one point, he got, he did a, uh, he got a request from the audience. And it was from like his first album. And he's like,

I'm sorry. He's like, I haven't played this in like 30 years. Ends up just dropping his guitar and singing at Acapella. He can't remember how to play it on the guitar. And so that was super cool. He like sings the, you know,

shallow from, uh, Starsborn. And then his wife, Trisha Year. Wood, big country star, she comes out and sings a girls part. She does some of her songs. It was great. He was at Cesar's.

And then obviously last night we did Chris Angel. That was so fun. And Chris Angel who Mind free. He was such a huge deal, right? Like everybody was watching that on TV. He'd really taken the world by storm. And so I know he had been doing this residency for a long time. He's now at Planet Hollywood.

And so he's 56 years old. Yeah, 56. He still got energy. He does. still have energy. And we took a big group and it was great. Chris Angel, that was a big win. That was a really good show too. So none of the shows have been bad.

Meanwhile, going over to the gym to watch basketball games, was super disappointed. Obviously, there was a lot of people that packed a gym on Friday for the first game that I went to. There's a lot of people here. Oh, yeah,

I honestly think it's more than I've ever seen. Really? The line going into Cox Pavilion? Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. What the hell? It's crazy.

It's become a big. big event here. Even more than last year. Honestly, I wasn't here Friday. Obviously, Victor was a big year. Like,

there was the Lamello year and all that too with the Lakers. But I feel like there's just more people. I don't know. That's just my impression. I'll tell you this.

I could hardly find a seat for the Zion debut because I wasn't sitting in the media section. Yeah. I just sat up in the stands. And then when be last... Lamello was that way, too.

Wembe last year, I was in the upper deck. Oh, For, you know, because I didn't like get there early enough for a seat. And also the game before that where Jabari Parker hit a game winner and Houston was playing. That was epic, dude. And then followed by the Wembe game was absolutely crazy. This year on Friday, people were starting to pack in to the small gym and then Zach Eadie wasn't able to play.

I've been told they are not shutting him down like he's going to play. Why? He twisted his ankle in the Utah one. So there's just being ultra cautious. In the first game that he played. And so obviously, look, he's expected to be the starting center for that team. But Eadie's a big draw. And then I will say I got done with that first game.

And I wanted to go over and see the Houston Lakers game because I knew that would be the slammed one with Brony James, and don't connect and obviously Reed Shepard on the other side. I go over to the Thomas of Mac Center and it was slammed. Really? The only- Like Zion-style slams. The only seats, and that was at like 4.30 in the afternoon, the only seats that we could get were about three-fourths of the way up in the upper deck, in the end zone. That was the only seats available.

So we went up there and sat in them, and let me tell you something, there was a buzz after that game about Shepard. Like, there's a, there's, I don't know if you saw this, and I don't know how many people in our audience saw this, but there was a, there's a documentary that ran the other night. Like, I was watching the Summer League game, and then I just left the channel on, on NBA TV.

And there was a, there's a documentary, it was like an hour-long thing, and it was called 20 years of summer. And it was just the story of Summer League and, you know, Warren LaGerry putting this thing together and the thing that, you know, what David Stern and Adam had to do with it. And it's really good. It's certainly worth watching, especially for all of the clips over the 20 years of seeing these guys. And one of the things that stood out to me in that was at one point somebody says, you know, Summer League is, you know, you have to, you have to, Sometimes it's the first time these guys are going through it. You're just throwing a team together. And they said, but generally, the stars will show you their stars. You know, they promote this as it will start here.

And obviously, look, there are guys that don't have big games that end up. But Kevin, we've been doing this for many, many years. And there are so many times where we will talk about somebody being mega impressed with them. And then it did mean something. There are times, especially on the struggle side where it hasn't meant anything. But there are more times than not. When somebody has been absolutely awesome, it informed us to what was going to happen. Obviously, the biggest one for us was Donovan Mitchell many, many years ago.

And I did kind of get that feeling with Shepard the other night, especially with the Hesi and then leaving Dalton Connect in the dust. but I mean, it was blocks, it was steals, it was knocking down three. Filled the box scoring everywhere. He shot a logo three after the buzzer one time. And it was like, you know, it was Curry-esque in the sense of you feel like everything the guy throws up is going in. And then it starts to. And that's because it does. Hell of a debut.

It does, Chris. It does. I mean, he was like 95th percentile or better in every shooting metric on Synergy, as Rucillo indicated on the BS pod weeks back. And I think with Shepherd, the reason why I ranked him number one on my board was precisely because of that shooting ability as just this foundational skill that's an elite skill for him. In this draft class, when you look around all of these prospects, there's a lot of good prospects, a lot of prospects with big question marks. But there's really nobody with a truly elite skill. Shepard was one of the few that had an elite skill with his shooting ability. So you factor that as a foundational skill with the elite feel.

the ability to create a little bit. He had an 18% usage rate at Kentucky, and you look back now, you're like, damn, Coach Cowlick should have been given more touches to Reed Shepard, more touches to Dillingham instead of the upperclassman that he had to give touches to, like Reeves in the starting lineup. But with Shepard,

he showed it all off. The mid-range pull-up, obviously the logo three, you mentioned, the distance on his shots, but then the activity on defense, which yes, he's small, yes, he's 184 pounds, yes, he's only six-foot-one, but he gets steals, he gets to reflections. He can block shots. He blocked a ton of clutch threes last year at Kentucky. I believe it was

three or four times in the last two minutes of a game that he blocked a three-pointer, a six-one guard in the last two minutes of games, like clutch moments. So he's going to have those moments of the Rockets, maybe in Summer League, if not then, then during the season. And I think that that debut for him on Friday night is really a sign of things to come for Reed Shepard. As the number three pick for Houston, Raphael Stone, their GM had him first on their board, he said. I believe that to be true. They're very analytics heavy. A lot of analytics models had Shepard number one on their boards. So I think Shepard could very well prove as a six-foot-one, you know, little light guy to prove to be the best player in the class. And, you know, we'll see as time passes by. But that was a great start. Yeah, he was awesome. And I feel bad for Brani.

I know. It's so much like attention. And then he can't shoot as we've known since he was in high school. It was the first time where I was like, you know, it's a bit much. I'm like, this whole arena. is packed it is because of him for him because of his dad who he is right yes and it's like he's not nowhere close he's not going to be able to do this where where it's like everybody is there to watch him like he's a star and he's a role player right who is then you know trying so hard to perform on what becomes this inordinately big stage right it's crazy to watch it and i know Right? It's crazy to watch it. And I know there's some people out there like, oh, yeah, I really feel bad for him, right?

You're getting paid $8 million for the next four years. I got it, right. This is the son of LeBron, both billionaire. But there is still, there's, the place is slammed and you are just not good enough. He's nowhere close. He's nowhere close. I mean, he was not a good shooter in high school. He was not a, he was a very poor shooter at USC.

He hasn't made us three in summer league so far. California Classic or so far in Vegas as we record this on Sunday morning. So, I mean, I think with him, man, like, you know, he's active. Like, you know, he hustles. You know, he's got a little bit good connective feel as a passer, but he's not a primary creator. He didn't get to the rim at USC. He hasn't so far, you know, with a ball in his hands in Summer League.

And he can't shoot yet. I mean, like, the shot looks good. Like, he elevates and, like, it looks good. But it doesn't go in very much at all. And so, I mean, I hope, I mean, look, I hope this is for the best for him as a kid. I'm rooting for him because I think it would be awesome to see Brony James in the league for years to come competing at a high level after LeBron James is retired in some number of years. I think that would be really awesome. I genuinely do.

I think it would be a great story. I hope they're able to play together on the floor and be competitive together. But I don't think Brony's anywhere close. I think he's not even ready for the G League at this point. He's going to go in the G League next year and probably play a lot for the Lakers G. league team and he's going to struggle because the G league is a man's league like we saw like we saw like you know scoot henderson in his first year in the G league he struggled and then his second year he got better minus bozellis and all these guys Ron Holland all these G leaguers this past year they have more

physically ready bodies and games and they had their moments where they really struggled so you know when he's playing for the G league lakers I would imagine it's going to be a lot of struggling and I think if that's the case during the season, do you continue playing him or do you start hiding him and then he's not getting any on court reps at all? Like, how is that for the best for him? I guess we'll see maybe the shot starts falling, but if it doesn't, I mean,

I really worry about what this is going to turn into. I wanted to mention this to you. You talked about, you mentioned Bezellis in passing. The other day, I was talking to Gigi Jackson, who was at one point, the number one player in what would be this class, right? Amongst his peers. And then he reclassified.

And then he reclassed. But this was his class. And I asked him coming up, who was the guy that you, like, looked at when you would play against them? One of these, like, you know, game recognizes game things. That was the guy he said. How about this one? He said originally, before he decommitted, he was going to. North Carolina and he said him the plan was him and Bozellis were going to go together to North

Carolina obviously Bezellis ended up going to the G league Gigi reclassed and then went to South Carolina for his year. That would have been a really good Carolina team. You think but he was telling me he said he's the one like that when he played against him he thought he was the guy and it's interesting because he's going to be one that I'm super paying attention to as this process goes out. He went a lot lower in the draft, I think, than most people expected them to go. Someone had a fall and it was him.

Yeah. And then about two years ago, when the All-Star game was in Utah, they do the basketball without borders, and they bring in all the international players, and the only people that are allowed in the gym are like scouts, GMs, talent evaluators. And from the people I talked to that were in that gym,

I'm like, who do I need to know going forward? I'll never forget them all saying there's there's Buzellis and then there's everybody else and that's amongst all those guys that we're going to be coming from overseas now obviously things change we had two international players go in the very first uh in the very first two pits yeah of this trash right and yeah french guys and then i talked to a european scout at the game the other day um who i've known for many many years and i asked him about the different guys because all he does is scouts overseas. And he told me that he thought the best of them was going to be Salon. Oh, wow. Tate Frazier's going to be very happy to hear that. That's what he told

me. Yes. He said, I think Salon's going to be the best of all of them. I mean, I like, and I, like, Tate and I were talking yesterday for his show on Fandul TV through the ringer. And Tate, you know, like we agree on this, that, you know, for the first X amount of years in their career, Sarr and Risa Shea will be better. Like, they're just, They're ahead of Salon right now. They will get more touches, more opportunities early in their careers. They're like, you got Charlotte, you got Brana Miller who dominated his first summer league game on Friday after entering his second season. You got Miles Bridges back there.

There's a lot of guys that are going to give me any touches, the Mello Ball. Salon's going to be a backup, probably getting limited minutes at first. But in the years to come, it won't be surprising if Salon ends up that guy who, you know, he goes sixth. And maybe you're like, oh, he's actually the first. the best player, the second best player, the third best player in the draft class. He ends up the best Frenchman of all the guys drafted him in the top six. It won't be shocking because if you consider his body 6-8, 6-9, very muscular, can handle the ball a little bit, plays his ass off on defense.

That's what you know he provides right away. And one of the interesting things that I heard about around Draft Night, and, you know, this is a guy that I haven't liked over the years. he was very mean to one of my favorite players of all time mo bamba and that's the former head coach of the orlando magic and then of the charlotte hornet steve clifford who moved into their front office that day of the draft christin pique was the first person from yahoo sports that reported that the hornets really like salon at number six and then i was like hmm interesting i did some digging it turns out that steve clifford the guy who moved into the front office after stepping down his head coach he was one of the people loudest and most vocal of about his love for salon. And I think that's in part because of that work ethic, that never stop attitude. And everybody I've talked to in and around salons, you know, camp, you know, they say he is like a true like MFer on the court and off the court with the work he puts in.

So, I mean, that's not taking anything else away from anybody else that works hard, you know, in the draft. But I think, like, specifically with him, there's something different. So if you're betting on character and on physical, physical. dimensions that he has. I mean, he's going to maximize whatever he becomes. So, yes, over the course of time, I can see why scouts love him. You know, maybe he does end up the best in the draft class, but it will take time.

It will. So the Shepard and Brani thing was the first, like that was like kind of prime time out here. That was the first time that I saw the place was absolutely slammed. As we're opening the notebook at different things that I've gleaned, I will say, I was going to see the whole plan was I was going to watch Zach Eady play. and then I was going to go over and I was going to watch Reed Shepard. You did see Cam Spencer though, Chris? I did see Kim.

It went off. What did GJ. say to you about him on your show? An effing dog. Yeah, I love it. He loves it. He loves him. He is a dog.

Anyway, on the opening the notebook front, you want to try to guess? They told me that the two or I'm sorry, the three top jersey sales on Fanatics for rookies so far. What do you think? None of the French guys. That's true. That's true? None of them?

Yes, no. Okay. Reed Shepherd? No. No. Zach Eady. Zach Eadie? Brony James.

Bronny James. Who's the third? Probably a Laker. Dalton Connect. Right? It's not Dalton Connect. No. Who is it then?

Think fame. Who is famous? Oh, of course. Jared McCain. It's Jared McCain. Oh, yeah, of course. The top three. Yeah.

And so there was a huge contingent from Memphis that were there at the Utah Summer League of which Philly was there, right? Yeah. My buddy that was there said, McCain gets like this response. Like he's like, like a YouTuber or a TikToker or like a famous. He is a TikTok. But like he doesn't get the reaction of a basketball player. People are like freaking out.

They're like, Jerry, Jerry. It's, he might be the first that. is like way more famous for being online than he is for basketball and yet he's a fantastic basketball player. He's actually really good. I know. Like seriously. It is, it is strange. Like the Edie thing, he is famous because he was two-time national player of the year. And he's seven. He's massive. And he spent four years in college. That's right. And four years in college, lost as a, you know, 16-1, which that propelled the stardom. like tenfold.

And then obviously the rebound season this past year where he wins player of the year. And he has been. And he got better every year. So I think college basketball fans saw that improvement year and year out from him. That's respected. I have a lot of friends, especially living in the South, that do not care about the NBA and are like SEC football fans. Like that's what they care about.

They know who Zach Eadie is. Like, Zach Eadie is famous, famous, right? Because anybody that pays attention to any sports whatsoever has an awareness of the final four. and certainly who the best player is. And so Edie's famous on that level. Broni's famous for obviously his name, his lineage, his father. He's been in the public eye for basically his whole life.

We've known about him. The McCain thing is fascinating to me because- He dances on TikTok and sings. I know. Like you are more likely to see highlights of Jared McCain doing some dance in a pink shower cap than you are hitting a jumper. And yet he is a fantastic basketball player, but I'm not sure that we've had someone that was much more famous for off the court.

Maybe like, I mean the ball family, obviously. Yeah, the ball family's one. Leangelo and Leandro and Lonello and Loneso. I actually saw all three of them together. I think I said Lamello earlier when I said the big Pat crowd is Lonso. My bad, yes. Yeah, I saw all three of them last night together. Yeah.

Oh, wow. Yeah, they were rolling deep. Lonzo rolling around or walking around. The Ball Brothers. No, no, he was actually walking. Okay, good. Yeah. All three of them.

In fact, when I left you at the, at the Cosmo last night, when I was walking outside, they were all walking in together. Nice. Yeah. Wow. They're rolling deep, the Ball brothers. All three of them were together. I hope Lonzo can get back, man. Oh.

I miss him. For sure. I really do. I mean, it feels like we, I mean, we have not watched him play basketball at all. So hopefully he can. He might just have such the issue that it's never going to be right. I hope Mello can get back for that matter too. I mean, he was averaging like almost 30 points a game to finish, you know, the last month or so of last season after a bad start.

And, I mean, then he gets hurt again. All right. So let's talk about some of these other guys. And, you know, you and I were both big reasons. Shepard fans. Obviously, he showed out. And we say that sometimes when we have these big performances in the summer league, they do end up actually meaning something that we look back and we go, oh, this is one of those examples of the stars showed us that they, you know, these guys showed us that they were a level above. Who is Jordan Miller?

And should I read anything to this? I'm going to tell everybody, this was Jordan Miller. is a second year player. He was a G-League star, and in the Clippers win over the Nuggets. He was drafted 48th overall in the 2023 draft, and he just had a game where he had 36 points. 36 in his game. And so what do we know about Jordan Miller?

I mean, you want to talk about out of sight, out of mind, right? Yeah. So Jordan Miller, he was a senior at Miami drafted second round, like you said last year, six foot four. He looks way bigger than that on the floor because he's so long with a seven-foot wingspan. But Jordan Miller is somebody, he became like a good all-around player at Miami. And you said he had a good year in the G-League, that carried over to the G-League. The one thing that impressed me in that Friday night game for the Clippers was the diversity

in his shot making. He had like a three coming off a screen or a handoff. He had like some movement shooting. And like he's always been a guy that has touch from mid-range with floaters, with free throws. all that, but he's never had the three-pointer translate. And so the fact that it's just one game, just one summer league game, but it's just, he had a more diverse shot diet than he had at Miami or even last year in the G-League. And so I think with him, you look at the Clippers this year, they lose Paul George,

they make a ton of additions that we talked about on a recent podcast, and you think about, well, maybe can one of their young players elevate their play and take advantage of the gap left by Paul George? well, maybe Jordan Miller is one of those guys who was a late bloomer at Miami. He took four years to really pop. And even then, he was still only a second round pick. But some people had him as a late first on their boards. I think Jordan Miller showed enough talent.

I had him 51 on my board that year because of his age. He was 23 when he entered the draft. So he's 24 now. But Jordan Miller, man, like, we talked earlier about some of these guys. We talked about T. John Salon, you know, with his effort and intensity and Reed Shepard, how he blocks shots and picks up steals. Jordan Miller's got that dog in him too. And he's just one of those hard-nosed, tough players.

And so I think for the Clippers, they had a bunch of veterans, but Jordan Miller maybe is that guy entering his second year. At 24, he's older. He's got a lot of experience under his belt. Maybe he's somebody that deserves attention as a potential rotation player for the Clippers.

Well, and you know what I was saying, 36 is a big number for a Summer League game, and I was telling you about watching that documentary, and they're doing the... they're doing the Steph bit, and they're showing about Steph Curry, him playing in his first summer league, and he's got this team around him,

and it was cool to watch the clips. And they were showing, during that, the big buzz was actually not even about Curry. Anthony Morrow had 47. Wow. In a summer league game. Wow.

Anthony Morrow. Anthony Morrow? Yes, he had 47 in a summer league game. It could not miss. Oh, my God. Like absolutely could not miss. And like the team was like, Steph Curry,

Anthony Randolph from LSU, Anthony Morrow. And look, Anthony Morrow ended up having a career. He had a career, right? It made some money, but in the NBA,

right? He was a bucket-gatter. Got a good contract. And so when I see stuff like the Jordan Miller thing, it's like, because Anthony Morrow, again,

another one of those guys, right? Older, second round pitch. Yes, yes. You know, all of that stuff. And then he popped at Summer League and he had this, that was the first time where everybody was like, who is that? Yes.

And who knows? Maybe it is one of those blips on the radar or maybe it actually will mean something when we look back and like, oh, wow, Jordan Miller is actually an NBA player with the real NBA career. He played 23 games in the G league last year. He averaged 22.5 points, 48% from the field. again, only 31% from three. That's the thing with him. But he was 82% from the free thrower line. So you hope that translates.

He seven rebounds, two assists, one point two steals. I mean, he's a guy who fills up the box score. He's versatile defensively. He plays hard. With him, I hate always saying, if a guy just shoots,

he'll hope he can get minutes. But with Jordan Miller, he's a good example of a guy where, if the shot is falling, he's going to be an NBA minutes player. He just is because he has everything else. He checks every other box. He was just way older at Miami and the shot never translated at the level that it needed to from beyond the arc.

So maybe this is the year for the Clippers because he looked very diverse in that first game. I was really impressed with his shot making. All right. So we did have a moment through these first couple of days in Summer League where I was like, oh, of course, right? Because it was a guy that we talked about through the, end of the basketball season, college basketball season. We talked about during the NCAA tournament,

and then his team ran into Yukon and just got absolutely blasted. But a guy that you and I were very high on, and then when the draft came around, he ended up going pretty low in the first round. And then this debut in Summer League, I'm like, oh my God. This is one of those.

guys that I should have just stuck with. What I watched in college is translatable stuff. And in his game, he looked like the best player on the floor. And it's one of those moments where it's like maybe they'll show you that they are better than the rest of these guys. And it's Shannon from Illinois. Terrence Shannon, this dude is blocking shots. He looks ready. Oh, crazy dunk.

he looks so athletic. He looks athletically superior and obviously so much of what he did at Illinois. You watched him on the court in college and you thought this is a guy

that is very easy to see in an NBA uniform. A guy that can defend his position, a guy that can knock down shots, a guy that's mega athletic. Everybody loves these kind of wings. If you watched him, you felt like I can see him in an NBA uniform and I can see him doing a lot of the stuff

that we are watching him do at Illinois. In that first game, he's the 27th pick in the draft. He finishes with 25 points on 9 of 14, three rebounds and two blocks. Yeah, I mean, look, dude, I think what Minnesota did on draft night, they took two big swings. They swung on the trade up to get Dillingham at number eight with the trade with the spurs. They swung on Terrence Shannon. And I think if they get a hit, you know, a home run with both of those picks or a double with one of them, a single with one of them, and a triple with the other, it changes everything for Minnesota with what they can become this coming season as they try to, you know, take a step further than the end of this past year going to the conference finals, but also changes things for years to come with them as, you know, other young guys getting paid, McDaniel's contract coming up, you get rookie contributors on those deals. Oh, yeah, the roster gets expensive.

Exactly. The 27th, if you hit the 27th pick, oh, man. It's as good of value as you could possibly have in the NBA. Those ones that are at the back end of that first round, because they're locked in, you know, there's some of these guys, and it's becoming more relevant,

more prevalent for the second round picks to sign longer deals. You're seeing more, you know, it used to always be these two-year deals, but now you're seeing guys sign four-year deals. in the second round. You do, but it's always been a locked in. You've got that guy locked in at that price. And look, there are second round picks that are not making more money than the late first round picks.

Because the late first round picks, they're locked into a number. And those second round picks, they're more negotiating their number. And that's why for Minnesota with both of these guys, Dillingham, I mean, like, I'm sure he's going to have a big night at some point in the summer league. he's just too good of a score too shifty. But with Terrence Shannon doing what he did, think about what the wolves were lacking. They were lacking more shot creation alongside Anthony Edwards and Mike Conley.

And Terrence Shannon with the downhill attacking ability, his ability to get to the basket through the teeth of defense, make kickout passes, which he didn't need to do in that opening game, finish at the rim, create shots off the dribble, dribble jumpers from mid-range,

maybe from three. I think he's the type of guy that he fills exactly what Minnesota needs. And then Dillingham, who defensively, another crazy long perimeter. You can't score on us guys. Exactly, which is what helps overcome the flaw with Dillingham. Dillingham's small. He's 164 pounds. He's six feet tall, six foot one. But if you're surrounding him with like a lineup of Terrence Shannon, Jada McDaniels, Rudy Gobert, you know, Nasreid, whatever the five is out there without like a bench unit mixed with starters,

Suddenly it matters a little bit less if you are a guy getting targeted. Well, they're doing it with Conley. Yeah, even though Conley is like a good defender. He's a smaller guy. He's smaller, so they target him. But I think, and Conley is like not as good as he once works because he's so much older. But I think from Minnesota, man, like they took two big swings. Their big swing was dealing him, trading up to get him at 8.

But Territ Shannon in his own way was a big swing too because I think based purely off of talent and the draft, and not off of age. Like I can, he's again, another older prospect. These older guys fall all the time. Terrence Shannon, like, arguably is one of the, you know, 10, 15 best players as a score in the draft. It's just he's older. His defense regressed a little bit as his scoring workload increased.

But if you look at his earlier years in college at Texas Tech, that dude was a dog. Well, you all saying around. Look, we'd be remissive. We did not mention, you know, his off-the-court issues. Of course. And those allegations of which he was completely clear. Of course.

It might have been too late. It may have been too late. And that's why I didn't mention it because I do think with teams, like the fact it was cleared, it didn't necessarily affect him. I think age is just. There's not 26 guys better than that guy as a basketball player and everybody knows that. But age is such a detriment in the eyes of teams. And we do this every year.

We say, why is Desmond Bain going at the end of the first round? Why is Jalen Brunson? Even like to Boston, Baylor Shireman, right? The guy Bill Simmons wanted it. Everybody viewed it's like, oh, Baylor Shireman's going to be good. He's like one of the best pick and roll creators in the class. He's a great shooter. He's versatile.

He's good size. Well, he's older. He's older. Even though like if Desmond Bain, you mention him, one of the best shooters in basketball, he's further improved, you know, into his mid-20s. Got everybody, every player is on a different trajectory. Some guys are elite prospects at 18, 19, years old when they're entering college.

Other guys take a little while to get there. Some guys are late bloomers in high school. Some guys are stars as freshman. Everybody's on a different path. And so I think what Desmond Bain on Memphis is obviously one of the premier examples, Draymond Green obviously with Golden State as well. But Desmond Bain

to me is the most recent one, considering the fact he comes out as a senior. What was he, 22, 22, 23 years old when he's drafted late in the first by Memphis at number 30. And what does he do? He gets better every single year as a player. He's become better, better as a shooter, better as a creator. And that's exactly what happened for him at TCU. And maybe that'll be exactly what happens for Terrence Shannon with

the Minnesota Timberwolves in the years to come. And I think, I think like we talk about the agest, the ages, but like also situation. Shannon at Texas Tech, I think his defensive intensity and versatility there was more relevant than when he had a heavier or offensive workload at Illinois after he transferred because it's kind of like the Zach Edy thing. Eadie was told not to block shots. Edie had to take it a little bit easier on defense. Now in the NBA, he's going to be able to grind and hustle and try to block shots and make an impact around the rim.

Now, Terrence Shannon, he's not the guy anymore like he wasn't Illinois. He's going to be able to grind on defense like he did in his underclassmen years of Texas Tech. So I look forward to seeing what Minnesota looks like, man. But I'm very impressed with what I did this offseason with limited assets. How do you come away with a top 10 pick? I know. But somehow you did.

And I think they could, I think they could be really taking a leap this coming season because they got their lumps. They got two really high variance rookies. And we'll see what most of those. Obviously, they've had a couple of the standouts thus far. The biggest bummer by a wide margin is what happened with Darren Holmes from Dayton. Awful. With the Achilles. I mean, obviously we've had two of these.

Super unfortunate ones before it ever starts first with Devin Carter. And when you and I were talking on our last show, I said, look, I know what they're saying. The shoulder thing is along. I know. Well, I mean, it sounds like. And now they're saying six months. Six months. Yep.

Yeah, I talked with Deuce and Mo, two great Kings reporters, analysts based out of Sacramento for the NBA draft show yesterday when we recorded that. And they mentioned to me, they're like, they think it might end up a red shirt year. And I think that's very possible because you get re-evaluate in December usually means we'll reevaluate you again in a month. And so like then it's mid-season. You really want to rush a guy back at that point. Maybe it depends on how good the kings are and how much they're needing somebody like Devin Carter. Because I think he's the type of guy again and older prospects who can contribute right away. Well, I'll tell you this.

Last week was the first time John Moran got first. fully cleared. Yeah. And that happened, what, January? Yeah. And we're in July. Yeah, we're in the middle of July right now. So, I mean, it's not an injury that you're going to be able to, not at all, you know, come back from easily. And then with Daron Holmes, talk about injuries that are hard to come back from. I mean, Daron Holmes, he ruptures as Achilles. That one is brutal. That can set you back for many years. And so certainly a full year. I mean, I think, I think for Denver and you don't know what you're going to be post. I will say They have gotten so much better with this, though.

Of course. We have seen guys be able to resume their careers at a much higher level than previously. It used to be that. But when I first started covering the NBA, that was like a damn near a death sentence. Well, then he's also. You're just never going to be the same guy. Seven footer, though. I mean, you know, it's scary.

It's scary. And I think with Deeran Holm is part of what, part of the appeal. But you've seen Clay come back. You've seen Duran. I know, I know. I just watched Brana Clark come back last year. But what I'm saying, like from the Nuggets perspective, your plan for this season.

I know. Was you draft Aaron Holmes. You want him to be your backup center. Yep. You want him to be a center who can play with Yokic, so you can play with two bigs, just like a ton of teams across the league are doing. Because Holmes is one of the rare centers

that is capable of being a bit versatile on defense. You could have him defend the perimeter, and you could have him shoot threes. I thought it was a tremendous pick by Calvin Booth, He gave up three second round draft picks to trade up to get him because everybody knew like it was a promise for weeks. There was two, three weeks. Everybody knew Denver wanted Deirond Holmes.

So they had to give up draft capital to get him. But the fact is, it made sense in so many different ways. And then you lose that guy really to continue an offseason that has been horrible for you already. You also had to give up three second round picks to dump Reggie Jackson. You lose Contavius, called Will Pope for nothing. You sign Darius Orich, you bring back Cancar, and that's about it. And now you might sign Russell Westbrook, who has proven to be a detriment the last few years with all his different stops.

Like, this is looking disastrous last year for the Nuggets ever since they win the title, going back to when they lose Bruce Brown for nothing. They need their young players to receive investment on the court, is my opinion. I think Booth has the right idea with these rookies, but does Michael Malone see it the same way? he got to play Julian Strother more, even more of the season? Is he going to give a chance to Jalen Pickett and Hunter Tyson who looked pretty good at times in the

G League this past year? Are there, and now, now like, he's not going to have a choice. He's not, he doesn't have a choice. You gotta. You have to. Well, because now you look, once you've moved Brown to the starting lineup in the place of Contavius Caldwell Pope, which we both thought was not a good loss for them.

No. By any means, especially at the price, when you've got a championship level team. But, I mean, this is the I'm going to start to fall. You know, as soon as you're, you know, you've lost, you know, now at least three of the guys that were, you know, big rotation guys on that title team between Bruce Brown, between Jeff Green, between and well, Reggie Jackson's gone now. So at least four of them. I mean, like, when you're just looking at your, I know that there's going to be turnover and your top seven, top eight guys, you know, because you're not playing a lot by the time you get to the, you know, West finals and you get to the finals. But, you get to the final.

But you get to play. you get to play the young guys. I mean, for sure. I mean, Boston has in their rotation, Samhouser an undrafted free agent, and then his second,

third year, you got Peyton Pritchard in the final year of his rookie skill contract, a guy that had already played, you know, 40 plus playoff games in the first three years of his career because he received investments.

You invest in your young players. We saw that the last year when Denver actually did it themselves with Christian Brown. They trade Bones Highland mid-year, which opened up minutes for Christian Brown. Malone had no choice but to play Brown.

more often. And what did Brown do in the playoffs? He had some big moments, big games, made a big impact on defense off the bench and a limited role. So I think- Well, and that has not been their thing. And you could say they just keep missing, but it hasn't been their thing.

You go back to RJ Hampton, you go back to Bowl, you go back to, like, they've had guys. Well, those are swings. That's like the opposite of what they've done under the booth. Young guys that also they did not. Of course. Right. Like, spending the time, you know, nurturing and developing it or whatever. Like, they've had a couple of them.

And it's like. But these guys. guys are older prospects and like they're like last year they're their two-way contracts got more minutes in the NBA than their second round picks right i i think hunter tyson was one of those guys last year i mean i mean yes maybe he ends up not being an NBA player but he's like 24 years old when he's enters the league super season five-year player out of college versatile on defense plays hard can shoot threes can do a little bit off the dribble like to me that was like perfect behind MPJ. Jalen Pickett needed more ball handling. Reggie Jackson

plays the whole year. We know who Reggie Jackson is. He doesn't elevate your play necessarily. Pickett, we'll see if he even plays this year. We'll see if they signed Westbrook. That hasn't happened yet. I'm a little surprised it hasn't happened yet. It seems like all the reporting around it was that Westbrook was going to go to the Nuggets. Yokic wanted it. Harrison Wind of DNVR reported that. Adam Mataz reported that as well. Yet it hasn't happened yet. I wonder why that is. if there's some disagreement within

about whether to bring Westbrook in. To me, the answer is clear. Invest in your young players. Invest in them from opening night of the season throughout the year, see what you got in them. And then if they turn into trade assets, great, that you can get good veterans. And then if they turn into guys

that you want to keep and have his rotation guys, then keep them around. Well, and I think you're also going to see the way. I think part of it is there's still a lot out there in terms of free agency that hasn't taken place yet. It feels more like baseball, doesn't it? We had that first, run of it and then it slowed down since and like let's just say there was the rumor going around

about tyos jones and maybe the clippers you know zeroing in on him oh that'd be great for the but you have to see what happens with tyos jones before you decide what you're doing with the westbrook thing so there's uh yeah maybe maybe maybe denver even could be like a tias jones type of team because they have the zeke nashy contract that could be a good fit for that and maybe there'll be some action that goes on out here at summer league as you get a lot of of these executives in the same rooms and talking face-to-face with each other. Asians as well everywhere. But no, after that first bit of free agency, it has been a glacial, glacial speed.

I know. There's a lot of good players out there that do not have teams yet. And so maybe people just want to see what they've got at Summer League as well in terms of which of the young guys they trust to be able to play minutes for them, what they think. Like, you know, you may look at it and you may go, let's just say, if you're, Houston, you're going, well, geez, man, we're going to play this kid 35 minutes, right? Like, so now who's not going to be playing? Just to bring it back to Denver.

Like, you're going to play Jayland Pickett a lot in Summer League. If he sucks, I mean, you're going to feel more pressure to go out and get somebody else. And if he's really good, maybe you're like, okay, we're playing this guy. No doubt about it. Yeah, I think that's fair. Two other things we got to mention before we get out of here. The first is we never got to discuss the Brunton contract. which, I mean, of the free agency stuff, nothing got more buzz than him signing that extension

and opting in for the four years, 156.5 million when everybody knew that next year he'd be eligible for five years, 269 million. I have read this stuff about, well, the last year, you know, he'll be able to recoup some of this by signing a huge deal. Look, look, doesn't matter how you want to frame it. This guy is taking a lot less money than what he could. He could be locking in,

you know, a lot more. He's leaving a lot of money on the table. Now, there are certainly horror stories, i.e. a small guard, Isaiah Thomas.

If he got hurt this coming season. For sure. To me, it's, to me, him taking the money is a no-brainer move for exactly that reason. This also has a million elements of which are not applicable in any other situation.

Like, we have never seen a guy do this. We have seen this happen like, you know, it happened in the NFL many times with the restructuring of contracts. You know, we've seen like, you know, everybody wanted to have a damn parade for LeBron for,

you know, not, not making them pay $500 billion to have a shitty basketball team. And they wanted to, you know, have a parade in L.A. for him, for giving him back a million bucks or whatever they gave. L.A.

didn't get a parade for winning the championship. I know. It only makes sense to have a parade for LeBron. We're going to have a parade for LeBron giving back $2 million while they gave his son $8 million. Anyways, like one of the things that the Brunton deal is let's a lot of money on the table and it's just not, his situation is just not applicable. His dad is on the staff and has been buddies with Tibido for the last 30 years.

His godfather is the GM and three of his best friends in the world are all on the team. Like there is no, there is no circumstance like this. So if we were ever going to get it to happen where somebody said, you know what, you can have all the money in the world. I'd rather be happy. And what would make me happy is me having my, my Nova Knicks with my dad, with my godfather, with. And I want to also be able to compete for a championship. Exactly. And that's the big one here.

That's above all else is it helps position the New York Knicks franchise to better contend for a championship. pulling them out of the second apron right now. That's what could get him a statue in front of the Madison Square Garden for decades to come, for centuries to come, you'd hope. And I think with Brunson, man, like... It's a small statue. Well, they can make it bigger.

Oh, okay. They can make the statue seven feet. Gigantic. Yeah, they can make a huge... I'm like 30 feet tall. A gentleman of Brunson statue. Yeah, you don't want to. They're looking like a garden gnome.

Yeah, have it taller than MSG. Like that, forget, a horrible statue. Philadelphia, that Iverset statues and statues of Well, I guess they have all small statues left, which I think is silly. Statues has to be huge.

I know. Like ancient Greek, yes. Right? The Roman type of thing. That's what I want. And so I think with Brunson have a massive statue

if the Knicks win a title or multiple titles. But that's the thing. Like he takes the, he sacrifices. He's getting paid hundreds of millions and this first deal that he's taking,

right? Yep. But he could be rewarded on the back end when he's in his 10th year and then he's like getting paid $80 million annually What?

Well, the other thing is you do feel like he will like that's already set up. And you do see- Assuming he's in good health at that point, assuming he's still a high-level player.

Here's the other thing. You feel like in the way that once upon a time you've got these horror stories of like Isaiah Thomas not extending or whatever and then something happened to

he's also with a group that ain't screwing. him over. Jaylon Bruns is going to get, he's never going to get, like, just thrown to the wolves and not get, they're going to make him hold

no matter what for doing it. He's in the perfect place, and he's with all his friends, he's with family. I mean, like, it really is like genuinely, really wholesome basketball story. He's going to make is outrageous.

Oh, my God. He's king of New York right now. I mean, he, he's a legitimate MVP contender this coming season. He, like, his profile. And their team is going to be great.

Yes, his profile nationally could rise as well this coming year. If you're looking at, like, underdog MVP's. To me, like the two main ones are Victor Weniamo with the Spurs

because, you know, young guy, maybe the Spurs are better than people expect. And then Jalen Bronson with the Knicks. Because if the Knicks,

we get a one seed, they're a great story. Voters, a lot of voters typically look for stories. Brunson's going to put up massive numbers on that team. He's going to be the best player

on that team. Maybe he's the guy who ends up getting rewarded. Now, would I choose either of those guys over the favorites? No. But I do think Brunson has a shot with this next team this coming year.

Because it's a loaded team, man. It's a great team, seriously. And the last thing is outside of Summer League, the other time that we may get back here is for the IST. Yeah. Well, not anymore. Now they're calling it the NBA Cup. They changed. They did.

They changed it to the NBA Cup. Good call. I like that. Good decision. Makes way more sense. They put together all the different brackets. It's worthless to go through and talk about who's got the heart. You never know the way this stuff's going to shake out.

You never know who's going to have injuries. You never go. There's going to be teams that we expect to be good that aren't good. There are going to be teams that we expect to be bad that are much, much better, right? There's no question, though. The NBA has really bought into this whole Vegas thing. And whether it is now Summer League or whether it is this NBA Cup, I think now you see NBA stuff everywhere.

The partnerships are everywhere. There will obviously be a team here at some point. but this has kind of become the meeting ground for everything that goes on in the NBA. And I do think one of the things that I gleaned from Summer League this year is that we were part of that last year, inaugural IST as it was. But this NBA Cup, my prediction is it's going to get bigger and bigger and bigger and you're going to see a lot of fans coming out to it in a way where it becomes. They're going to make that like they're going to make it even bigger and better.

I mean, they had all kinds of concerts associated with it last year. When you were around town, they had friggin't billboards of Tyrese Halliburton. They had the basketball on the sphere. Yeah. Yeah. This is going to be, it's going to be a very big deal. And you could see every time like the NBA keeps getting more and more involved on the Vegas front. And it actually has become, I have met so many fans that have just made this trip as like a vacation.

With their boys, like they come out of friends and all that. I'll meet up in Vegas. I've seen couples. Yeah. Oh, me too. Yeah. know, and I've seen people with families even. They brought their kids.

They brought kids, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's pretty cool. I mean, I think, I mean, to me, like, if you're a listener of our show, like, if you've been listening, you know, a year, months or eight years, ever since we began this years ago, like, to me, try to make a trip out to Vegas, whether it's for the NBA Cup, but especially for Summer League, it's just a really fun time. I think, like, all the events, you can organize it, so, like, you go see a Chris Angel,

or you go see Dead and Company, whatever is that you want to. to do like but as part of your day sometimes you might watch some games Thomas and Mac sometimes you might be going seeing a show a magic show or whatever else having great dinners the food here is it might be the best food in America yeah I think in Vegas Vegas LA New York are some of the best food cities but Vegas I know the ringer Dave Chang with his podcast he has said Vegas is the best food in America I think that that might be right um I mean to me I get it man I think Vegas is really cool to visit And I look forward to see what it's like with an NBA team here as well.

Because every time I take like an Uber or a taxi, like inevitably the conversation, like we start talking basketball. And like a lot of you say, hey, I'm Kevin O'Connor from the ringer. Well, I ask what are you here for? Well, ask what are you here for? And then the Uber driver is like, you shut up. That's what you do. Yeah.

That's what you do. You and your ego. Get me to my destination. I do like my buddy, Chris Mann. And you don't leave a tip either. You know Chris Mannix? Look, I'm going to sell him out right now. Oh, yeah, okay.

That dude says he's deaf on his Uber thing so that the guy won't talk to him. No way. That's such a manic thing to do. It's so unsurprising. If anybody runs up on Manix, tell him I told it. I just outed him to the world. He hates Uber drivers that talk so much. Did he register?

That's such a Manix thing to do. I swear to you. Oh, my God. Wow. Wow. I mean, that's a real, that's really, you don't want anybody to talk to you. Wow. I mean, I think sometimes he's got his AirPods in at games too, probably just so nobody says, I don't want anybody to talk to.

All right. But anyway, with Uber drivers, they talk about how like the knights and the aces have developed some pretty passionate fan bases here locally, but also people coming into town. Yeah. That are always passing. through Vegas every month of the year that go to games, see what it's like. So you get tourists mixed with locals and it's always a good atmosphere. I had a great time at an ACE's game years ago. Sure. It was very fun atmosphere. I haven't seen any other sports here besides obviously NBA with Summer League, but I thought the crowd was great for everything. So, except for the G League

ignite because it's so far out of way at Henderson. But obviously that's gone now. But yeah, I think Vegas is going to be a great sport city for the NBA once we eventually get a team here, but for now, these events are awesome, too. They're awesome. I'm already excited to come back for December. We will certainly reconvene in December out here. Everybody's got to pack up all the stuff here so

we can set up shop back in LA, but we're going to sign off for our Summer League in-person mismatch that we were able to do. Thanks to everybody here out on site. And Kevin, I'll talk to you later this week. I look forward to it. Have a good.

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