The Mismatch - Bucks and Warriors Moving On, Doc Close to Blowing It Again, and Which Teams Left Will Advance

Episode Date: April 28, 2022

With the Bucks and Warriors moving on to the second round, Verno and KOC recap the first-round series for both teams. They preview the Bucks' matchup with the Celtics (02:00) before taking a look back at the Bulls' season and debating what their next moves are (14:13). Are we overrating the Warriors' new Death Lineup (22:10)? With the Raptors winning two straight, is Doc Rivers on the verge of blowing another playoff series (32:35)? Nate McMillan is on the hot seat in Atlanta after the Hawks' disappointing season (42:54). They next debate which of the teams left in the West will advance and which series will go to a full seven games (52:50). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Are you a sports fan who didn't know the NFL draft was this week? Then boy, do I have the teaser trailer for you. I'm Danny Heifitz, and I host the Ringer NFL draft show every week with Danny Kelly, Ben Solek, and Craig Horlebeck. We're doing mock drafts before the draft. We're great in picks after the draft. Now, do we know which picks were good and who's going to go where? No, absolutely not.

We can't predict the future. But people like hearing about it. Yeah, don't you, you sickos. So we talk about it anyway. So come listen to the Ringer NFL draft show. And guess what? If you like the draft, but you don't like me, you can go listen to the Ringer NFL show with Kevin Clark and Nora Princeziati and our other NFL experts,

or you can go to NFL draft.com to check out our massive draft guide. So come listen to the Ringer NFL draft show and the Ringer NFL show on Spotify because they employ me, or it's also available on all the other platforms that don't employ me. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me this Thursday from The Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.k.k. Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Colm, Kevin O'Col, Kevin O'Col, Kevin O'Col, Kevin O'Cleon, Kevin O Candyland, Kevin. No. What's going on, man?

How are you doing this morning? I'm great. This first round of the playoffs has been incredibly entertaining. We had two series that ended last night. So we'll get to those first. The first is the Bucks taking care of business against the Chicago Bulls 1-16-100. They win the series, 4-1. And now coming up this weekend, we are going to have a showdown with Milwaukee and Boston.

first off thoughts on the Milwaukee Bulls series and then we'll get to kind of you know we know where the bucks go from here and then we can talk about where the Bulls go from here but just overarching thoughts on Buck's Bulls. You got to give Boon Holes or credit for the adjustment we talked about after Chris Middleton went down and that was going big with Janus Portis Lopez. I mean a couple of games ago that really knocked the Bulls on their heels I felt like. when booted holder came out with that lineup. And Brooke Lopez has been able to step up in ways that, you know, that maybe we didn't expect on the surface after that injury happened. But look, anytime you have Yonassana to the Kumpo, you cannot count out that team from achieving victory.

It's going to be a much greater challenge next round against the Celtics, though, considering Chris Middleton's importance, both as a score. We've seen him go off against Boston so many times in the past and also just as an defender too. And you do have to give credit to some of those guys. You know, we talked about the Middleton injury. It was reported this morning. We're not going to see them in the Boston series.

But the guys that were called upon to step up. Grayson Allen, Pat Connoen. Yeah, I mean, what do you expect? Just add up whatever you think you're getting out of Middleton. They filled the gap. I mean, you had the two Grayson Allen monster games before this last one. And then it was Pat Connitton. I mean, those two guys, Conitin and Allen, combined to go for 33 points shooting 9 of 15 from 3, 7 rebounds, 2 assist, got just steal.

I mean, they've certainly picked up the slack. And you talked about that adjustment that Booneholtz are made going big. It's going to be interesting to see how those guys are able to step up possibly in the X round because it's certainly all hands on decks. Even Javon Carter last night, you know, he comes in, he gives you six points, he gives you three rebounds, he gives you four assists, he gives you five steals in the game. And so they've got to, they got a plug and they've got a lot to replace, but at least against the Bulls, the replacement for Middleton went extremely well.

Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, look, it worked against Chicago, but Boston will be a much greater challenge. from Milwaukee without Middleton. And it was announced this morning that Middleton will miss the entire second round series, which is, you know, it's too bad for the Milwaukee Bucks. But, you know, I tweeted in the middle of the series. I forget if I said it on the pod, but I was like, well, the doors open now for the Bulls to to win this series against the Bucks.

The Bucks shut that immediately because like we're talking about, the guys who stepped up, the lineup changed, the way that three big lineup worked. But next round against Boston, who just got Robert. Williams back and is that complete full strength. That's where things are going to get tough, man. I mean, like, where do you lean in that series right now? Because I put a poll out. Everybody chose Bucks and six or seven or self-ix in six or seven.

Like, nobody thinks this will be a short series. I don't think it will be a short series either. I'm going to be very fascinated to see if they stay big. Because one thing we know about the Bucks is teams score an in anordinate amount of points against them from the three-point line. In fact, they were 30th in points against from the three point line. What you cannot do is score a bunch of two-point baskets against them, right? Like they have been outstanding at guarding the two-point baskets.

And Chicago is clearly not somebody that can take advantage of that. Yes, exactly. The question is, is Boston? And is Boston going to be able to take advantage of it if you do go really big, right? Because now you're trying to match up size for size. I mean, this is a fascinating match up. Because now what does Udoka do? Does he try to go small to combat that?

Does he try to match up big when you know that that's probably not the best mode of operation to score a lot of points against the bucks? I mean, we know. I think they're a fourth in the league in terms of two points given up. Their last in the league in terms of three points given up. Can Boston exploit that is a massive question that I just don't know the answer to? what I also wonder about is matchups. I was looking on second spectrum at the matchups during the regular season, and it was interesting.

Like, no surprise, Marcus Marcia, Drew Holiday, saw a lot of Jason Tatum on Pat Conantin, Time Lord on Bobby Portis, Al Horford was on either George Hill a lot of the time or Bobby Portis. No Brooke Lopez in those games. But that's where things get interesting. They're like, who was the number one guy to defend Janus during the season? It was Grant Williams.

Grant Williams defended Janus more than any other player on Boston throughout the regular season. So it could be setting up for a huge series for him with Al Horford and Robert Williams kind of in that off ball roaming role. I'm sure we'll see a lot of Horford on Janus. But that obviously goes without saying is the number one matchup. But not having Middleton, that's where life gets easier for Tatum or Brown. We just saw these guys have to spend time on Kevin Durant. And now maybe they'll be defending Pat Connison, Grayson Allen, in a situation where they need to stay close to home

and stop those guys as three-point shooters, but you're not as much worried about them in an on-ball situation. So Boston can load up with some of these other guys, helping off ball, trying to build a wall around the rim in the half court, slow down Yon. So I think that's where the Middleton loss of his ability to just shred from behind the three-point line, from mid-range. That loss is going to be felt most,

not to mention Middleton on defense, he's not a stopper by any means, but he's a good defender, and that's one less guy to have against Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown. I do worry matchup-wise for Milwaukee, but this is a place here, though. Again, you can't count out Janus.

Janus is one of the greatest players of all time. He will be. He'll go down as that. And this is one of those series where those guys somehow managed to come out on top and do something miraculous. So you can't count out Janus from doing something special of the series beating what looks like the best team in the East right now in the Boston Celtics. Well, and I think it's a ton on one of the things that is going to stand out to me is,

you know, we said that over the course of a series, who's the best player in that series, you know, of the seven games, how many times did you have the best guy? And so even if we say, look, in the end, Jan is going to be the best guy. Now, Jason Tatum was clearly the best guy. the series that just included Kevin Durant. But here was the trick for Durant, and this will be the trick for Janice. Who's the next guy?

Who's the next guy? I mean, it makes, it's a lot on Drew Holiday, right? Is Drew Holiday the next guy? Who else is going to be able to carry a load for the Milwaukee Bucks? We would typically say, and that's the biggest thing, you know, to make it in simple context, right in the absence of middleton that answer becomes harder and we say then it's got to be Drew Holiday same thing goes with jalen brown you know there were those nights where Tatum wasn't outstanding against uh Brooklyn he but now once somebody's going to sell out on

tatum once inevitably there's going to be a game where they just decide we're not letting this guy kill us. And we know that teams have game plan to try to not let Janus kill him. And it makes absolutely no difference. But his second banana, who is that in that series? And does it have to be Drew Holiday? Can you truly just have the best player and then do it as a collective? Because that answer is not obvious.

I do think it's obvious for Boston. Sure. I know what you're saying. And I think to the point with Drew Holiday as well, if you look during the regular season with Chris Middleton off the floor, who is Marcus Smart defending? It's Drew Holiday.

And so that makes the matchup even more difficult for True Holiday, whereas Middleton's on the court, who's Marcus Smart defending? Chris Middleton. That's the way the lineup data showed up over the course of the season with matchups on Second Spectrum. So look,

We just saw Marcus Smart give hell to Carrey Irving for four straight games in the first round. Kyrie had one great game, game one, and then he was okay, inconsistent, fine, but not special, games two through four. Drew Holiday is about to have to deal with Markersmart every single night on offense, in addition to on the other end of the court, having to be the guy that's going to be matching up against Jason Tatum, because that's, again, exactly what he did during the NBA regular season, and we would expect that to happen again now. So, look, I worried for Milwaukee in that sense. Everything we're talking about, it spells a disappointing result for the bucks against the Celtics.

But again, like, I bring it back to Ianis. You can't count them out. Exactly. Like, it's all, doesn't it all come down to Janus, really? Is it really that simple? Like, aside from the X factors, hot shooting nights, cold shooting nights, like, all stuff. I do think it's the guys playing off of him, right? Because you now have a situation where you can't sell out completely.

On yons. Yes. With Williams, Horford helping. Yeah. And you saw, look, we've talked about this,

right? There's the teams, there's the one guy. And it's happened because of injuries and in some cases because you only have one guy where they just say, we're going to make it our life's mission to make life hell on this guy. If the other guys beat us, the other guys beat us.

So they do it against Chris Paul. It works well. Then they do it again. McKell Bridges torches them. They do it the whole series against Trey, Tray Young. And then it doesn't. Nobody else is able to step up and he struggles the entire time.

And next thing you know, they're done. They do it against John Moran and Desmond Baines going for damn near 30 a game, right? Other guys are stepping up. Brandon Clark now, every time he's. slips to the basket is open because they're selling out on Morant. And you see this throughout all of these series. And so when the sellout against Janus happens now, does that remain? Does Pat Connerton and Grayson Allen and Drew Howdy, do all these guys keep banging down shots?

Because the truth is, that's what they did against Chicago. But that puts a lot on them because he'll, inevitably, he's, look, he's gotten to the point of his career. he'll make the right basketball play. Yeah. And he's going to drive into three guys, which is going to leave three guys open out there on the perimeter. And it's going to be a matter of if those guys can make Boston pay for it or not to open it up a little bit. Yeah, you're right, Chris. It would open it up for Milwaukee.

And that's where things get interesting, though, because, like, Chicago doesn't have the amount of great help defenders or on-ball defenders that Boston has. Like, the Celtics can continue to freely switch screens if they choose to. they can play drop coverage if they want to they can be more aggressive in the pick and roll if they want to they can be aggressive with their help by bringing a guy into the paint or not like Robert Williams doesn't necessarily need to slide all the way into the paint

in order to recover back to whoever he might be covering in the corner like a Bobby Porter's or whoever it might be Boston has so much length they can switch up what they do in terms of their coverages and continue to confuse that Milwaukee offense and make them have to constantly adjust And look, I'm picking Boston in the series because no Middleton. But that speaks to how highly I think of Chris Middleton.

But I still think it's going to go deep because of the greatness of Yannis. All right. How about the other side of that game that ended last night, which was the Bulls? If you're the Bulls and you know this goes two different ways, do you look at it and say, look, we lost Lonzo, we lost Caruso, we were all banged up, we were ravaged by injury. You saw what we were when we were healthy. We're going to give Levine the contract that we think he deserves. And he's going to be healthy again next year. And we're going to run it back.

We'll do some minor, you know, retooling, you know, maybe around the fringes. But in terms of what we've got with Lonzo and Levine and Caruso and DeRosen and Vooch and Pat Williams coming back next year. a dissoon moo coming off the bet like you know do you just do you just work on the margins if you're chicago and run it back and is that an excuse for what happened or a reason for what happened a little of both um i mean with the bulls i i love what they got and i love their core um i like vuch i don't love vuch i would prefer to have a big in that spot who i would I love if that makes sense.

Like if the Lakers give you a call and say, hey, we'll give you Anthony Davis for Vooch and Lanzo, I'm at least saying, no, hanging up, but then talking with my front office and considering it. And thinking about how do we counter this, what are the other pieces in this deal? Because if you can get a defensive enforcer who can also bring something offensively,

that'd be preferable over Vouch, who is very effective offensively, but more of a positional player relying on the greatness of his permanent defenders on defense. So that's the position that I would want to address most. But also, you have to think about Zach Levine, about to enter free agency here. What will his situation be? What options will he have? Does he want to stay and continue to be the number two behind Amardar Rosen?

How does that dynamic evolve over the course of time? So there's a lot that can change with the Bulls, but ultimately, like, you end this season and you feel good about the future because of the veteran. because of the veterans that you have, but also the fact that Caruso translated with a higher usage, Lonzo minus the injuries, continued to get better, though Sumu looked like one of the steals of the 2022 NBA draft, and Pat Williams, even in that close-out game last night for the Bucks,

23 points, looking very effective as a two-way player. So you feel a lot of encouragement from the younger guys on your roster in addition to the veterans that you have. It's just about shuffling the pieces now to optimize what you have moving forward. In that hypothetical trade, you are including like 50 first rounders from Chicago, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because if you're involved. Yeah, yeah.

When I give those names out, I mean like, hold on now. I mean the names is like a foundation in a deal. Like you can't trade. No, no, no. No. And every pick for the next 30 years to New Orleans. Yes. And then get Lonzo.

back for Anthony Davis. To be clear, thank you for speaking on behalf of like the Lakers fans listeners right now who are like, you're an idiot. But, but what I mean is like just if it's Lonzo and Vooch, yes, you're giving draft picks on top of that. I'm just speaking

theoretically here. If, if, because for the Lakers, their number one thing to do is to trade Russell Westbrook. If they get that done, then you can start thinking about what to do with Anthony Davis. And I mean, for the Lakers side of things there. Depending on what you get for us, I'd be intrigued by

Vouch, Lonzo, draft pick type of package, because then those picks could be sent another way to get more players back. Maybe you could get Caruso back. But yeah, hey, I mean, do you agree with me on the Bulls, though? Like, you come away feeling good overall, but there are those big questions, though,

with Levine's contract, and then with Vouch, how can you can you upgrade that? And will there even be any opportunity. Yeah, I think you want a better defensive presence there in front of the rim. And no guarantees you get it. Yeah, that's right. But it's at least worth a try. Yep. How about Gobert? What about Gobert? Just throw one more name out there. How do you feel about him for Chicago as a target? Because then you hurt your offensive spacing, but you kind of changed the dynamic of your offense. Yeah, I would want to give De Rosen and Levine space. Yeah, I agree

with you. I agree. You know, though, though DeRosen just dominated for multiple years in San Antonio statistically without spacing. Yeah, I wouldn't try it again. They didn't win anything. Yeah, I'm not surprised by your response, but I had to ask. Hey, basketball fans, don't just watch all of the NBA playoffs action. Be a part of it with Fandall,

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Or in West Virginia, visit 1800 gambler.net. Warriors Nuggets. I thought the Warriors would run them out. I really did. Going back home, and I thought a big effort from the Nuggets. Look, you don't get any brownie points for playing close, but the fact that they were,

they were right there. They were right there. with a chance to make that, you know, have to play a game six back at home, which is not an easy place to win. Yokic, I mean, had a big series, had big numbers, didn't have a lot come along for the ride with him. But I don't, I think just as that series went on, I certainly, I think my opinion of the the nuggets went up and what they were able to do even despite I thought being way outmaned.

And at the beginning of the series, I felt like the Warriors, oh, my God, this looks devastating. And I think by the end, they looked a lot more mortal. Is that fair? Yeah. I'd say they looked more mortal at the end. But still, I mean, like their five-man death lineup is still outscoring in that series, Denver by 23 points in 39 total minutes. But they're not going Denver.

And to your point, to your point is Denver. It's Denver. And it's not going to be Memphis or Minnesota. It's not going to be Phoenix or some other formidable opponent in the West or never mind somebody in the East in a finals. You're right. So you do you, so you feel a little bit.

I just think we went a little too far with the death lineup thing because this is not. But I don't watch that. But how much of that is because pool. I had like a couple of cool games, you know, where he wasn't on fire. How much of it is that? Probably a lot of it. But I mean, like that, I just think, I think people easily forget what that was like.

You know, like it's been a little while. It's been five, six years since we saw that. But, I mean, when that first started going, you didn't have, you got to remember, to me, that first death lineup, they changed the. league. You're talking. You're talking just to throw the lineup out there. Clay,

Steph, Draymond, Igwadala, Harrison Barnes, that one. Or Livingston. Yes. Right? The different combinations, but that's why with the current goal in state roster, I'm intrigued by it, though. Well, and they do have different combos.

Sometimes it's Porter. Sometimes it's Gary Pete. Who was amazing last night. But this is what I'm saying. But this is what I'm saying. That first one, and I covered series where they were throwing that thing out there. And I was covering a team that had two big guys at the time in Zach Randolph and

Markisaw. I saw them play other teams. You saw them play that Oklahoma City team, you know, with Russ and with KD that's got Stephen Adams or Kendrick Perkins or whoever, this play center. Like teams were not equipped in the same way to deal with it at the time that that was going. It changed the league. It changed what people value in the draft. It changed the way teams are able to go small themselves. It changed everything. And so when I hear this death lineup now, I look at it. I thought that was the death lineup because you couldn't match up with that.

Most teams can, they don't match up with it as well. This was a particularly terrible match up because you have to play Yokage if you're Denver or else you're a friggin' 10-win team, basically, right? I think what was the number? They were like a 16-win team with the way they played with him off the court. So you have to play him. So this is especially devastating against the team that has to play a traditional center, right? I do think across the board, you see these teams, they're loaded up with wings. they're loaded up with a guy

they could go small with that command the paint. I just, I don't know. I think, to me, it's a bridge too far that this is like death lineup 2.0 because the first time around, teams were so ill-prepared to deal with them.

I disagree with you, Chris, and I think you're going to find that out next round. All right. I do. I do. I think you're crazy. Memphis is, got wings on wings on wings.

And don't do this again. You did this last year with Egg all over your face. So don't do it again. With Golden State? Yeah. I mean last year was totally different circumstance. Oh, you mean they had a home game to make the playoffs and got waxed? Yeah.

The team, did it have Clay Thompson, Draymond Green, wasn't the same? There was a totally different. It's not even comparable. It's irrelevant compared to the situation that they're in now. Jordan Poole is a completely different player. Their bench is different. It's completely different. Like, it doesn't matter what happened last year.

It's also a completely different Memphis team. It is 100%. You're right. You're right. And they've got wings on wings on wings. You're right. But some of the concerns are still there. You mentioned Stephen Adams.

What will his role be in the series? Jaroni's falling issues. Can he stay on the floor? John Morant's point of attack defense while also having to carry a load offensively. There are some matchup concerns if we do get Golden State versus Memphis in the second round of the playoffs. The best thing that can happen for Memphis. is a team going small. Their most devastating lineup is one with Brandon Clark

and Jared Jackson in the front court. Isn't Brandon Clark something else? Yeah. That tip out offensive board he had the other night was, it had me screaming. It was so exciting. I mean, look, and that's one thing about the Timberwolves, they don't play small.

They always play somebody big. So it's a different deal. You know, they've got... I think, I mean, to your point, Memphis matches up way better in 2022 than they did years ago with the Grint and Grine Grizzlies. Way better. You're 100% right.

I still think the Warriors' combinations with their revised, you know, modernized version of their death lineup. Like, this is really the third iteration. We mentioned the Barnes-Iguidal-one. Then you insert Kevin Durant for Harrison Barnes. You get that version. This version, you're inserting Andrew Wiggins. I mean, none of those players are better either.

Steff's not as good as he was. Clay's not as good as he was. It's not that it's better. It's just different. It's the new version. It's got Andrew Wiggins in it. Yeah, well, sometimes it's got Gary Payton. Sometimes it's got Otto Porter in there.

Your favorite player, Otto Porter. All we're missing is Rashon Holmes on the Warriors roster, and we'd be having a good-ass time here, Chris, for a long-time listeners of the next time. Which of Auto Porter's three points last night were your favorite was your favorite? What was our argument last year where I was like, he's a good shooter, and you're like, he takes two, three is a game.

Yeah. It's the only guy I have ever seen that an outstanding shoot that's professed to be a shooter who averages two, three-pointers a game for his career. He's 39.8% for his career, Chris Vernon. He's not a good shooter. Because you make two. If you make two, who cares? Does it matter? All right.

So with Gold State, though, I'm a believer in their death lineup. You are not. Is that a fair thing to say? think it's goofy to call it the death lineup. That first time around, that was... They dominated during the regular season. They dominated in the first round against them. We haven't even seen it during the regular season.

So stop. They didn't even play together. They played 11 games together. Let me... Steph and Clay and Draymond were never on the court together. We didn't see it a lot, but we did see it. We saw it during the regular season towards the end of the year. A little bit.

Different combinations, but it's looking much, much, much better. And they played the nuggets. Stop. All right. And now on the nuggets front, we talked about dissecting the bulls. The nuggets are just a typical, yes, run it back. Clearly didn't have your guys. It's a different world with Murray and Porter.

And you would add a better regular season, and you certainly would have been more equipped in the playoffs. But we never saw Murray. We never saw Porter, despite reports coming out that we might see them. And maybe this is a lesson learned for us. We were led to believe that we might see Murray and Porter. We were led to believe we might see Kauai. We were led to believe we might see Zion.

We were led to believe we might see Ben Simmons. I mean, maybe we just need to, you know, remind me of this next time around when we spend way too much time talking about guys that might come back because frigging none of them came back and played at the end, right? I mean, I mean, the thing is, is someone out is due to choice. with Denver, it was said by Michael Malone that for Jamal Marie, it's a choice not to come back yet. There's still mental hurdles there

for New Orleans. Zion seems ready to come back, but the Pelicans don't think so. The Pelicans want him to get, come back in the best shape of his life before they put him back on the court and risk further major injury. So these guys were definitely close. We saw highlight tapes of all of them. We seen Zion doing dunk contest dunks. We saw Jamal Murray. Between the legs.

We saw legs. We saw Jamal Murray making hard cuts and dunking in the pregame. We saw there was that clip that came out with Kauai. And then, of course, they shuffled every reporter away after that. And they were reports that he was starting to like scrimmage. There was the Nick Friedel video of Ben Simmons cracking one. Oh, gosh. Hey, watch this.

Like all those guys, it's not like it was a mystery. Like we even, not only did we hear they could be coming back. we saw them look like capable players, right? That's what's crazy. Yeah. I'm saying even with the videos, usually you don't get the videos too. We had videos of all these guys looking like they'd probably be able to play basketball.

Exactly. Yeah, it's not like this is just some reported stuff or conspiracy theories. It was video evidence. Zion can still dunk between his legs and be head at the rim. That's the thing, though. I think for all of these teams, for New Orleans, not bringing Zion back, I agree with it. He does not look like he is in the best shape of his life. If I'm the New Orleans Pelicans, I say, hey, Zion, look at our team.

Look at us. You come back in the best shape of your life. We're finals contenders immediately next season, dude. We're not going to play you down and risk compromising that. If you're the Nuggets, I get it with Jamal Murray. Coming back this late in the season, Michael Porter's Jr. still not back in either. I get not coming back right now. because then you risk compromising next season.

And same thing with Kauai Leonard. You know, it's disappointing for these rosters. And for Ben Simmons, I mean, that's a whole lot of thing. That has much greater complexities than any of them. But I understand not bringing them back. All right. Let's get to what's going to be going on tonight. Raptors backs against the wall down three to two.

Oh, boy. Home game tonight. 76ers on the road at the Raptors. Oh, boy. Yeah. That crowd is going to be wild. I wish I was there. Yeah, you know, I always, every time they show that frigging Jurassic Park outside,

I, there's, I have the weirdest emotion seeing that. On one hand, like, I do not like crowded areas. Like, really? Yeah. as I've gotten older. Like I used... How about the concourse at a basketball game? You know,

you know, like after a game or a half time? Yeah. You know, like that? I just don't like, I don't like not being able to move. I don't,

I don't like, I don't know. It's like, like, so, like there's sometimes at like these concerts and stuff. Like I considered going, I happened to be in Chicago

for Lala Paloosa a year or two ago, the same weekend. And then I saw the pictures of like, I don't know, Jack Harlow or who, whoever it was up on stage. And I saw the pictures there in Grant Park. And I was like, oh my God.

Like, no, no. Gives me anxiety just even looking at it. Right. But on the other hand, it looks insanely fun. And that's how I feel about Jurassic Park. I look at it and I'm like, God, that looks amazing. I'd love to be celebrating with that many people when they're doing great. On the other hand, I'm like, geez, man.

As soon as I had to take a leak, how am I getting through it? all these people. Like, I'm old now, man. I'm trying to be right. I'm not trying to fight my way through crowds. I'd rather be on the outside looking in and all the people having fun. I used to be the one having fun. Now I just want to watch the people have fun. Did I send you the video that I took of myself at the King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard concert? Did I send that to you, Chris, of me? Like, there's a pit. There's a pit, a mosh pit.

feet behind me. I felt the contact sweat, the pushing, the elbows, the feet in the air from people crowd surfing. And Chris, you know what? I realized at age 31, I still got it. I still got it, Chris. I'm still out there in the crowd close to the stage. In fairness, you've had two years off. I did have two years off.

You're like the Ben Simmons of concert goers. I'll tell you what, though, early in that show, I got hit in the lower back. And I felt it. Like it hurt. I was like, is something wrong with me? For a moment, I said, am I going to be able to make it through this show?

But everything was fine after that. And then you just, I got a great spot. I was so close to the stage. At the time of my life, it's so fun. That is hard. That is hard of a champion.

That is hard of a champion stuff. Did you listen to the song I told you about by them, the dripping tap? I did. The 18 minutes single, what did you think about it? I thought that you probably love drugs. Ha ha ha ha.

there was like a skunky smell in the air that night i'm not sure what it was you don't say never smelled that before you don't know what that was all right you have any idea 76ers speaking of skunky smells yesterday dr rivers uh blamed everybody that's ever played for him for blowing leads in series. He was mad that it's hung around his neck that these 3-1 blown leads. And of course, this would be Apex Mountain, a 3-0 lead that they have on the Toronto Raptors. And then he got a fire back. By this point, I'm going to assume all of our listeners have seen it,

saying go back and look at that Orlando team, which is the point. funniest thing ever. You know, like basically, you guys should be, you guys should be surprised. I won as many games as I did. It didn't. It's stunk. So go back and look at that Orlando roster. And then he did the whole Chris Paul got injured in one year.

And then he said, but the last Clippers one, that one's on me. That one's on me. Right. So this has become a big topic. And I don't think that if you're the Sixers, the best thing going into a game six on the road against a team that just held you to less than 90 points is that for the big topic everybody's talking about is how your coach blows playoff series leads. But as you are ingesting it yesterday, what did you make of Doc Rivers defending his record? I was first of all I laughed I thought it was funny it was a great clip I appreciate the honesty but more than anything else I would have loved for some accountability I didn't hear the

full press conference I would have loved to hear what doc would say about lessons learned in those series whether they're his fault or not I would love to hear about well what did you learn from that experience with the magic what did you learn the experience with the clubbers and Selvics. What about the blown three-two leads? You had a lot of three-one leads. What about the three-two leads that were blown in the finals? I'd love to hear about those experiences and what was learned through there.

I'll tell you what, Chris. I'm not sure a lot was. Because the same old mistakes have been repeated over and over and over and over again, over the years. Ever since I was a little kid watching Celtics games, I was in support of Doc Rivers. You know this, Chris?

Back in the day when Bill Simmons, when I was just in high school and college, watching Southics games, I thought Bill was dead wrong about Doc. I thought he was wrong. And I thought Doc was a guy the Celtic should stick with. And it turned out maybe that was true. They won a championship. They had great success.

It worked with those big three teams with Kevin Garnett, Paul Pearson, Ray Allen. But over the course of time, later in those years with the Celtics, the blown three-two lead in the finals against the Lakers, the blown lead against the Orlando Magic in the playoffs, what happened with the clippers what's happened with the sixers i look back and i'm like it worked with boston but i think bill was in the back of the day was right because of everything i've heard as a reporter in terms of the work ethic and everything else i think for philadelphia here we're seeing those same problems pop up again well and and granted they're not a hundred

percent right now with imbid having his injury this raptors team man do you i feel like there's a real chance here, especially at home in Toronto. We end up seeing a game seven. Oh yeah, I just don't like all the news. I don't like all the news that has come out. I don't like that this is the topic about the glowing things. I agree. They're already

thinking about it. They're living it right now. I don't like it. It's negative energy, man. Yeah, I don't like it. You see the the Danny Green clip to him talking about it. We got a nut up. Yeah, not up or we'll fold. It's like, bam. I know. Well, and you've got so, to your point on the

Celtics thing, they were up 3-2 on Orlando and they lost that series in 09. In 10, they were up 3-2 on the Lakers in the final. And they lost that series. By the way, can I say one thing about that game, Game 7?

Yeah. Paugasol traveled. I just got to say, I got to come out and say it. He traveled. It was up and down. That baseline jumper he hit towards the end of game seven. It was an uncalled travel. He landed. Hey, let me tell you. Let me tell you, you want to know what's crazy?

is I didn't run into him the other night but he was at the Grizzlies Wolves game. Oh really? Calcasol was there. Yeah, a lot of people I know saw him, ran into him.

Yeah. He was at the game the other night. It's crazy. I mean, I was at the Dallas game Monday night like we talked about like Pat Mahomes was there. Yeah. There was a lot. A lot of, Dirk was there.

I was told Michael Irvin. Did you know Michael Irvin? Your guy? Yeah, yeah. Michael Irvin. So after the game on Monday, we're walking out and there's this huge crowd of people. Everybody's got their phones out. You would have hated it.

You would have ran away. And we walked over to it because we like crowds. And we pull out our phones to see if we can get a view. And it turns out it's Michael Irvin, fully drenched and sweat, taking photos with people. As he goes through the crowd, it was hilarious. It was great. I got a little clip of Michael Irvin, if you want to send it to you. So, 09, 3-2 up on Orlando.

they lost that series. 3-2 on the Lakers in the finals, they lost that series. 2012, 3-2 up on the heat in the Easter conference finals, and they lost that series. And then you've got all the Clippers ones. And then the crazy thing is, it's like, you know, by yesterday, it's like talking about the Orlando thing and blow it way back then. The wild thing is, like, you don't even have to bring up all these,

like where you had the lead and then ended up losing for the Celtics, for the Clippers. You can just talk about last year, bro. No kidding. And I know that it's all been laid at the feet of Ben Simmons. I get it, right? Yeah. Here's the truth. The Sixers were two one.

They blew an 18 point lead in game four. They had an 18 point lead. They blew a 26 point lead. in game five, and then they lost game seven at home as a one seat. Like that happened last year. It's absurd. It happened so many times over the years, man. Like I said, like I said, you just said, we don't have to go back to those Celtics years,

but I lived it as a Celtics fan growing up, man. I know. I lived it. How about this, Kev? you look at what it did for the flip side of that, that collapsed last year. Yo, have you seen this article that came out by Chris Kirchner this morning about Atlanta? Holy hell. So you think about the way we thought about Atlanta and them winning because of them being able to go to the East Finals last year.

And Nate McMillan, you know, greatest job ever and got. the extension and everything else. Now you fast forward a year later, Atlanta is this colossal disappointment. They say, I'm just going to read you parts of this article, okay? Did they make Billing, by the way, with that ATO he drew up at the end of the game? Did he just throw up on the cliffboard? I'm going to read the, hey, wait till you see this.

Okay. All right. Two weeks into the season, Young told Atlanta reporters had the regular seasons a lot more boring than the playoffs. It's a stunning quote that reverberated not only in, the organization, but outside of it too, went on to talk about how lackadaisical they're done. Young later clarified his comments and said he meant was the team needed to play every game with playoff intensity, but the damage had already been done by then.

He said when speaking about potential playoff matchups for the Hawks a few weeks ago, one source inside the organization mentioned how the heat were a bad matchup for Atlanta. When asked why, he said he thought the gap between Eric Spolstra and Nate McMillan was too wide. Spolsterer is known as one of the best. best in-game tacticians in the NBA, and that he showed itself how the heat neutralized young and how the Hawks couldn't figure anything out to get him going. And it says last year, you know, Lloyd Pierce lost the locker room. And it said one source was asked after Tuesday's Game 5 loss, if McMillan had the support

of the locker room in this season. And if he felt like the players believed in their coach, the source just laughed. as a few days ago, McMillan's job security was never in question. The manner in which the heat lost could change those opinions, but that remains unclear now. And it says this series was another reminder, though, of McMillan's lack of playoff success.

In his 18 seasons, he's only advanced out of the first round twice. Last season, and in the 2005 season with the Seattle Supersonics. I could not believe that stuff. Wow. Yeah. 18 seasons?

Wow. 18 seasons. He's been out of the first round twice, and one of them was 17 years ago. Wow. That's crazy. Yeah. That really puts it into perspective. That also touches on Doc's point.

He's like, you're knocking me for actually being in those positions and being there and having a chance, opportunity to even blow a lead. Okay. So you ready for this? Madness? Listen to this. I'm ready for more. Despite all of Trey Young's struggles,

the Hawks still had a chance to send the game into overtime. This is what you were talking about, right? Now watch this. With 5.2 seconds left on the clock and their season on the line, the Hawks needed a three to tie. McMillan said Young, who finished the game 0 for 5 from 3, was the first option on the play he drew up.

What makes that interesting is that while McMillan drew on his dry erase board, Young wasn't involved in the huddle. He sat on the bench and stared directly ahead away from McMillan as John Collins and Danilo Gallinari blocked his view of the huddle. When they broke as a team, Young was already walking towards the court. What transpired was the worst end of game play you'll ever see, considering the stakes. For someone who's supposedly the number one option on a play, Young didn't break free for the ball. He ran into a Kongwu's back, then backpedaled from Dilan Wright, who

inbounded the ball. When Wright passed it to Gallinari, who was trapped in the corner, Young did not attempt to break towards Gallonari in the hope that he'd throw a wraparound pass. Instead, Gallo tried passing the ball towards the paint when they needed a three, and the ball was stolen. The Hawks didn't even get off a shot to save their season. What the crap? It's pretty scaling right there. wasn't in the huddle what it makes me want to go back and try to see if we can find a clip

of uh well obviously Chris Kersner yeah he definitely did I'd love to see it with my own eyeballs well because it's like it's like unfathomable it really is for your best player for Trey Young who just despite all his struggles

in the series wasn't in the huddle yeah despite all his struggles he still had his monster fourth quarter performance elite a to their win. For him not to be in the huddle? What's wrong? Something fundamentally is wrong.

Well, also what's wrong is how does Nate McBillen not see that he's not in the huddle? Or some one, some assistant coach, even. He said, so they ask, you know, like you do. And also, by the way, like, also the flip side of this is it can't just be all on the coaches for not noticing trade. Why is Trey not forcing himself in there?

Yes. Yes. There's 5.2 seconds left. Yeah, exactly. What is going on here? And why? Because inevitably, when they get to the post game, you know, they're asking them, like basically what the hell, right? And the what the hell was, yeah, that play was for Trey.

But then people go back and watch it, right? You're going to dissect it because that's the way the season ended. And then they go back and watch it. And they're like, dude, he's not even in the huddle. We mean the plays for Trey. and he had no interest in getting the ball. That's crazy. That's one of those if it's a bigger market.

You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. It's a huge, yeah, yeah, you're right. I pulled up that article and another part, like as I scroll real quickly, this is something. It's rough.

He said, McMillan falls short in many people's eyes and his rigidity, particularly when it comes to experimenting, even if the status quo isn't working. He mentions Jalen Johnson. getting only 120 minutes, different lineup combinations. Kevin Herder and Bogdanovich together, use that often.

So, I mean, look, this quote from a source as well, McMillan's unimaginative, and when things aren't going to plan, it's hard to make an adjustment. That's one source what they said to Chris Kirshner of the athletic. But that's a rough deal. That's scary. That's rough deal. That is a.

That is a rough post-mortem article for sure. So, all right, back to 76ers Raptors. I think we're both on this. I think there is going to be a game seven. And I might end up wrong on this. I just think there's so much positive momentum for the Raptors and so much negative momentum for the Sixers. Of course, they've got to play without Thibble in Toronto, too.

So they're down a rotation player. I think we are going to see a game seven in that. I do. Yeah, I did. I do too. I mean, we talked about on Tuesday show, C. Accom's playmaking and how all these raptors can adapt and shape shift into different roles. I thought Samson Fulk, who was a guest on The Void a couple weeks ago, he had a great stat detailing C. Akams changing role, like within this series. Game one, he had 17 pick and rolls as the ball handler. Game two, 17, game three, 19, game four, 22.

And then in game five, it went up to 40. Seacum ran 40 pick and rolls in that game five. And was a major issue for the Sixers defensively with Seaccom getting into those mid-range spots where he's playmaking, scoring. That that's going to have to have to be the number one thing for Philadelphia to address, considering how central that was to Toronto's offense. But I think with Toronto here, you're right. Like momentum is a funny thing. and swing the other way real quick.

But just the way Toronto feels like they found something, getting Scarty Barnes back, what he provides both defensively and with his playmaking offensively. That's been a game changer for them as well. It just feels like things are trending in a positive way. I don't like the mojo. It's like M.B.

It's going to need surgery, hardened socks, Doc blows everything. Bingo. I don't like it. And by the way, it is inevitable. that someday we get a 3-0 comeback in the NBA. It's inevitable. It's going to happen.

And maybe this is actually it right here with this Raptors team because you mentioned all the bad mojo on the Sixers side. What about all the good mojo on the Raptors side? Oh, I know. All year long it's been like that for the Raptors. Feeling good, loving this young team that's up and coming. This is like one of the best places to be as an organization where it's all about hope and optimism.

See, I'm playing great. They did it. They just had a guy. Oh, he'll get his rookie in the year. He'll get his rookie of the year tonight, I bet. Yeah. Right. He was just, he was announced when they were on the road.

Yeah. So he'll get that thing. Yep. Back in Toronto tonight beforehand. Wow. I really, I really do think we're going to get a game seven. I don't see, I don't see how the sixers win on the road in Toronto. All right.

Unless Hardin turns back the clock. If Hardin turns, back into the heart and of old, that's a game changer. If that were to happen, then yeah. We'd probably as well go buy a lottery ticket. All right. So we think that one of these road teams is going to force a game seven. How about the other ones?

Got two other ones where the team that is in the three, two lead in the series can take care of business, sons at Pelicans, Mavericks at Jazz, which in your opinion is more likely to force a game seven. New Orleans Phoenix. I don't trust Utah. I think Dallas is going to finish them. But also, I want to be shocked

that Phoenix finishes New Orleans. Well, in fairness, and you were just at a game where you're asking me to pick one, I would pick New Orleans Phoenix because no Devon Booker. But Dallas, Utah, I think Dallas is going to end it for Utah. And it's done. How amazing was McKell Bridges?

Holy crap. It was one of the better defensive performances we've seen of the entire season. Seriously? Michael Bridges guarded CJ and Ingram, a total of 70 plays in that game five. They shot only 5 of 16 when defended by Burgess, so they not only shot inefficiently when he was in the area, but they just weren't shooting much at all. They turned the ball over multiple times when defended by Bridges.

He was everywhere on ball. everywhere off ball blocking shots i was amazed like well it it really wasn't you're you're talking about all the you're talking about all the defensive prowess that he showed and the guy ended up 12 of 17 31 points you know what i mean yeah 31 points in the game he was crazy and was unbelievable one of the things we talked about on tuesday i asked you i was like you know at some point do you just sell out on Ingram. You know? And you got to pay extra attention to him.

And then you live the results. If McCollum kills you, Valent Judas kills you, then so be it. But Ingram's big ones were like high efficiency, 30 plus point, just monster games. And so when you're trying to figure out where do we deploy, I do think that the more bridges you can get on Ingram, the better.

Because I do think slowing, him down will go the longest way towards thwarting the pelicans. But look, in the absence of Booker, nothing is out of the realm of possibility. Well, with CJ, CJ hasn't had that massive night yet either, in part because of what Phoenix is doing defensively. And partially, though, also he's just missing shots. It's just going game by game in the series. 9 of 25, 7 of 18, 11 of 23, 8 of 21, seven of 22 those are his shooting numbers from the field he hasn't had a unbelievable

you know 40 point performance like we've seen him have in the postseason before so like if you're new orleans you got to find a way to get CJ going and if they are loading up on ingram maybe that's your way to make that happen but i don't think phoenix is going to change from that game plan necessarily with bridges they're going to put him sometimes on cj sometimes on Angram changing up what they do defensively. And by the way, also in that game five, it was cool. I liked Monty Williams going with the two big lineup, eaten in the league.

I just like these variables. And I think the difference is right. It's similar to Hoosler with what he did. I think I'd be surprised if one of those ended up going to a seventh game. If the team had to win a game seven on their home court, it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility. Look, both of these spreads are under three. In fact, every game we have tonight is a one and a half or two and a half.

half point line. So they're all expected to be close games between these teams. But, you know, much like we were talking about Toronto's got that real positive feeling going into there to get it or I mean, going back home to get it done and be able to get a win to force of game seven. I do think Phoenix has got that kind of momentum right now and feeling really good about themselves, as is Dallas, right? So I think it's harder for those, I think it's harder for the Pelicans and the Jazz.

to force a game seven because once you get this deep into a series, there's not a lot of a, there's not a lot more adjustments that are being made, right? You kind of flush the adjustments out. There can't, it's probably not going to be some kind of something big that takes place that can swing the series adjustment at this. Zion active.

Oh, well, that could. That would be incredible. That would be incredible. By the way, with Phoenix, I just have to say this. Hasn't DeAndre Aiton been sensational? I mean, isn't he stepping up at every way that he needs to? I mean, are you his agent or something?

Me? Why are you always talking about how awesome D. I have not been blown away by him. He's fine. He's fine. It's the first quarter he had fade away jumpers attacking off the bounce. I mean, he's fine. He's a, but this is, but this is what you.

These are the guys you like, though, and I don't. But when you don't have, Chris, when you don't have Devin's And Booker, this is what you need is guys like Aitin and Bridges stepping up. What are you talking about? But he hasn't been the story. Bridges stepping up has been the story. I know, but I know because Bridges had a sensational game. Eaton has been steadily, steadily effective throughout the series without Booker 2.

All I know is that like the last two games, Valentinus has had 26 and 15 and then 17 and 14. You know? I mean, I don't know what you want me to say. he's been okay that's not all on eight necessarily defense is a five-man operation when you're trying to stop ingram and cj

like you just said earlier loading up on those guys you gotta give something so it's just like it's not all on so you think he's not guarding valentune just just like it's not all on bridges for being able to slow down ingram

just like it's not all on mark or smart for what they did against karee or all you know like it's not defense is ever about one. Very rarely. Like, it can be for an individual play, but over the course of a game or a series, it's a collective.

I thought... It's a game plan. I thought in game three, which was the night he had, you know, he got the huge amount of shots, and he went for 28 and 17. I thought he was unbelievable.

And these other ones, I mean, he's been... I mean, he was good. For what it's worth, DeAndre Aten wants to hire me as his age. He gets a lot of easy shots, bro. It's not like he doesn't.

I would accept a lower percentage than other agents to. To get whatever that max contract, buddy. Let me tell me one thing you don't want to do. You don't want to have to go negotiate with Robert Sarver. Oh, yeah, you're right. So if he wants to move on to another team, you'll be as agent. I'll get a crash course in negotiation talking to James Jones and Robert Sarver. Robert Sarver will just say, like, I give you a.

I give you $75 billion for three years. It'd be like, wait, what? Hey, I want $200. Being an agent, like, it's not just negotiation. There's so many things you have to do, like dealing with, you know, I mean, it's, it's a tough job. It's a very time-consuming job. But if you're representing a guy who's about to get a max contract, that might be like for the easiest part.

Yes. Yeah, that's going to be the easiest part because somebody's going to offer a max to eight, even if it's not Phoenix. Right. The real one, the real job is getting Duncan Robinson 90 million dollars. And also it's like getting those guys who are like borderline G League overseas guys, chances in the NBA. I mean, you got a guy, $90 million that's like replaced by Max Struz. Isn't that?

It's crazy. That's probably one of the more underrated storylines of the season. The fact that Max Struz is often closing games over Duncan Robbins. Bro, they do it all the time, too. They just develop and replace. Well, and that's the thing with Miami. It's the type of thing, granted, they're still trying to win a finals with Duncan Robinson. Game Vincent, you know?

How about Victor Oladipo stepping up in a game game? He doesn't play? Oladipo looked like Victor Oladipo, didn't he? Even down the stretch of that game, he's defending Trey. Granted, he wasn't attacked that often. It was kind of weird usage. for him down the stretch of that game. But, yeah, Victor Oladipo, that was a special moment for him to win that game.

I love seeing him run towards the sideline, holding his jersey up. Yeah, Victor Oladipo deserved a night like that. That was cool. Last thing, before we get out of here, there is going to be one other game that we have not spoken about so far. That is game six, Memphis, Minnesota, tomorrow night. It's the only game. It's going to have center stage tomorrow night, Memphis, Minnesota. I know you were watching Game 5.

as it unfolded where the grizzly stormed back. John Moran had 13 points in the last three minutes, including the game winner. And this was after Anthony Edwards hit an incredible three. And then ants jumped the passing lane. Why did he do that? That's one that keeps you up at night for sure. Yeah, I know.

All you do is stay in front of him, right? And you do swallow him up with your size more often than not. You know, ants got the. You know, it's part of the reason it had been a struggle for Morant because of not only the complete defensive sellout that Minnesota has played through this, but also that they've got big dudes that can move their feet that they can put on him. And Edwards is one of those, you know, with that size. And, you know, there's very few people that can match first steps or explosiveness with Morant. And I mean, it's literally the only thing he couldn't do is try to gamble for that.

See, I'd love to know the real truth. And like you, I could talk directly to Chris Finch and might not get it. I could talk to anything. No, no, he said it. Oh, he did. Yeah, Aunt said. Do you say it was on him? The second the auto broke, I knew I was going for the steal.

It was stupid. So he said it was his decision. Yeah. He knew what he was doing. But what I'm curious about, though, is like, even beyond that, was he empowered over the course of the season in situations

like that one to jump passing lanes? No. He was going to try to jump a passing lane. He was going to try to be the hero. You know? And he regrets it. He regrets it. I feel bad. I love that kid.

Yeah, he's awesome. Love him. I love him. I love his dog's Twitter account. Isn't Anthony Edwards so lovable? Yo. I was howling yesterday.

at that Aunt Junior thing. Oh, yeah. Did you see where he tagged Desmond Bain? Oh, no, I didn't see this. Oh, that's all the account. The tweet where he tagged Desmond Bain yesterday, the dog's account did. In a tweet, I'll let you find it. He pulled it up.

I was howling yesterday, yesterday afternoon. I came across it and I'm like, oh, come on. It was something like, you know, he's got bust. but he's too little for dad or something like that. Oh, he might have deleted it. We didn't delete it. No, no,

here we go. I don't see it. Here it is. I don't care how big Desmond Bade is. He's still too small for pops. Can you throw the link in the chat? I can't find it. So good.

So good. It's on that Ann Junior account. You scroll down. It's hilarious. That's what you said. I'm not logged out to Twitter on my laptop. I don't care how big Desmond bait is. He's still too small for

pops from Anthony Edwards' dog account. I mean, just the fact he named his dog Anthony Edwards, Jr. And you know it's him tweeting. So funny to me. So funny to me. Anyways, all right. What do you think? You think Minnesota forces a game seven?

You think I'm watched that game seven would be Sunday in Memphis at 2.30. And honestly, how about this? Regardless of what takes place tomorrow night. There is a game in FedEx Forum at 2.30 on Sunday. So on Sunday, I'm either going to be in attendance for Memphis, Minnesota game seven, or Memphis Golden State game one. Which do you think I'm watching on Sunday? I'll go with the game seven.

Let's go with a game seven. Damn. You think so? You think Minnesota takes care of business tomorrow night? Yeah, let's go with the game seven. Yeah. If Toronto doesn't win tonight, I'll be fascinated to see what happens, right? Because you've got three cracks at forcing a game seven tonight in the NBA.

And if those all finish early, you know, Memphis, Minnesota would be the only game seven in the first round. Yeah. But we kind of feel like that we're going to get at least one other. by the way do you keep starting tillman you continue that in game six i think you might have to go back to uh stevo at interesting and pull and pull them if it doesn't work out yeah and here's why because this i think is most important i heard uh haralabobb say this on bill's podcast and i had not looked this up yet but i had intended to but i was glad he already had one of the one of the one of the massive keys for the Grizzlies throughout the season and in the playoffs is being able to keep Jaron Jackson Jr. on the court.

It is such a massive advantage. The shooting numbers for Minnesota when Jackson is on the court are anemic from three and from the field. The problem is he's not on the floor. He played over 25 minutes, I believe, once the entire series. 18 minutes in that last game. 18 minutes. Six fouls and 18. Well, and they're hunting him too.

But here's the thing. You're telling me there won't be a problem against Golden State. Well, and here's the thing. This team attacks him. And when he's playing center and not next to Adams, his foul rate's gone up 40%. So that's the big thing to me. It's almost like, is it worth it to, you know, take the hit that it might be. defensively because you got some matchup problems playing Adams and get Adams clearing the way

for Moran, get him getting offensive rebounds, but most importantly, playing him more simply because it might help Jackson stay out of foul trouble because now he's not the rim protector because he's just constantly in the way of contact. You know what I mean? He's constantly in the way of contact. And so, and he is, he's foul prone. He's a foul prone player who is now put into a position where he has just found it impossible

not to get into foul trouble. And so I do think you could see. And the craziest thing was, you know, their comeback the other night, a lot of people didn't notice this. That lineup was super small. That was like, Brandon Clark was the only big,

on the floor and he had 10 rebounds and seven offensive rebounds in the fourth quarter. He was sensational. Dominated. The tip out for the job three. Oh, my God. Like we mentioned it earlier, like I howled. I screamed so loud. I hear like the echo of my voice in my apartment.

It was just an unbelievable play. That's a situation where you need every, you need to convert every possession, you know, in that fourth quarter. and he got you seven extra. Seven. You missed the shot, and he got you another one. Seven offensive rebounds in a quarter is insane. Most guys never get seven rebounds in a game.

He had seven in the fourth quarter. Crazy. I mean, I don't want to get into too deep of a topic near the end of the show here when I know you're going to go, but like, Brandon Clark, Desmond Bain,

Grant Williams, guys like that, these older prospects who are playing pivotal roles for their teams in the playoffs here. It's just something on my mind when it comes to the draft, more than ever. These contributing players on rookie deals who are playing big minutes in the postseason

and having big moments who can contribute early. But I do think it goes back to, Kev. I do think it goes back to what we talked about a few weeks ago where it's like when we were talking about Brunson. And I said to you, I said, look, part of this success that these guys have is if they would have been drafted higher. So let's say, hey, if you go back and do it, Bain would have been a top 10 pick. He might not be what he is if he went to some rat team.

Like, there's a reason why so many of these guys. And so it's really a chicken or the egg thing. And you got to decide, is it because they, you know, everybody missed on them? Or is it because they went to the Grizzlies? Is it because they went to Boston? Is it because they went to Dallas? Is it because they went to some, whatever organization drafted them? Who typically if you're drafting that low, A, you've got a good coach.

B, you probably have a good front office. And C, you 100% have a good team. That's why you drafted low. Well, how about a guy like Sadiq Bay on Detroit? Right. I mean, he gets drafted, what, 18, 19, whatever it was? Like, if he were in a situation like we're talking about, he would be viewed differently nationally.

Then the conversation with Sadiq Bay would be like, how is he not a top 10 pick? Well, the crazy thing is, again, it's not, it's just so, there's a lot of new, to this. There really is. Because, oh, how about this? One of the things we didn't talk about, remember that article I mentioned from Chris Kershner about McMillan?

One of the thing that's mentioned in there is that, you know, on the rigidity thing, he's too rigid, they mentioned in the article. So this is obviously a source of discontent that he constantly played Cameradish, and all their lineups with Cameradish sucked. All right. That Jalen Johnson, who, by the way, was the, second or third most talked about prospect to me from the people that I was friends with that were at Summer League.

Everybody that saw that kid at Summer League was like, Jesus, this kid is so much better than I thought. Looking like a steal. Same thing with my conversations. People were like, did we underrate him? That was like the type of things. He played 120 minutes. Yeah. The whole season.

The whole season. And this whole idea that you can't serve two masters, develop players also while being good, is, again, let's say Jaylon John that that's not his coach. That is an old school thing. We don't play rookies. We're trying to win every game. We're trying to win tonight. There's no way to, you know, we can't serve two masters here, right? The development of players and also winning.

It's one of the things that Miami's been great about. It's one of the things Toronto has been great about. It's one of the things that Memphis has been great about. I mean, Zaire Williams started throughout the year. It obviously was not giving you the best chance at winning. Now, they won like hell, but it clearly wasn't giving you the best chance at winning. There are better players on the roster than him in his current state, but it pays dividends. Exactly.

Because now he can go in a playoff game and give you some minutes. And it's like, we never even saw Jalen Johnson play. So is that because Jalen Johnson ain't that good? Is that because somebody, you know, that they missed on Jailon Johnson? Or is that just because his situation? So he might have been better off going to a rat team than the situation he was in Atlanta this year because he could have gone to, you know, why couldn't he be playing for, you know, somebody like a Detroit or somebody like a

Houston and putting up big numbers and getting a lot of NBA experience? Instead, he got literally none. None. A hundred and twenty minutes. That is less than three games of basketball, bro. The whole year. That's crazy. And I'm telling you, second or third most talked about guy to me in Summer League.

By the way, by the way, I swear to God to you, I'm going to make, I'm going to admit something. Kevin, until I read that article this morning. that was shitting on Nate McMillan, I totally forgot Jalen Johnson existed. I had not thought about him since the summer. I mean, for what it's worth, he also played only eight games in the G League, only eight. So he didn't get much on-court experience at all.

Madness. Yeah. Madness. Yep. When we talk about situation and fit, so that's it. That's it. This is exactly it.

I mean, that's crazy. I know. I'm not kidding. When I was reading that article, I was like, Jaila Johnson, and I flashback. People could go on, go on YouTube and type in Jaila Johnson Summer League and watch the highlights. This dude was awesome. You know what everybody was saying? Like, what the F happened to Duke?

This guy's amazing. He played four games in the Summer League. average 19 points, 57% from the field, 42% from three, 10 rebounds, two assists. And he's long as shit and athletic.

He's like, he's like Ben Simmons with a three-pointer, like on paper. That's what you hope he grows into. Freaky. And that's a great player. If he can turn into that, he just was terrible at Duke.

Terrible. Personality. Like, there's like concerns with him. Yeah, with what he can be in the NBA moving forward. But, you know, he's playing 120 minutes.

Ooh, madness. Yeah. Madness. Yeah. Madness. Situation plays such. such a situation environment, opportunity in life and in

sports makes such a significant difference in you're a success or failure. It does. And for Jalen Johnson, hopefully for him moving forward to get some minutes. But you're right. You're 100% right, Chris. Kevin, it is always a pleasure. Thank you to our executive producer Jesse Lopez as always.

And we will talk to you on Tuesday.