The Mismatch - Buying Into the Chet Vs. Wemby Rivalry and the Emerging Warriors, Plus: Has Doc Fixed the Bucks?

Episode Date: March 1, 2024

Verno and KOC break down what could be the next great NBA rivalry between the Spurs and Thunder with Chet Holmgren and Victor Wembanyama (01:50). They dive into how special these rookies are and why the future's so bright for both. With Andrew Wiggins away from the Warriors, Moses Moody slides into the starting lineup—the guys explain why this move could be beneficial for the team down the stretch (14:28). With the no. 5 and no. 10 seeds separated by only 3.5 games in the West, the guys debate which teams have the best chance to secure the guaranteed playoff spot and avoid the play-in (28:38). Also, KOC explains what Doc Rivers has done to fix the Bucks defense and discusses Joel Embiid's plan to return to the Sixers this season (37:00). You can read KOC’s article about Doc and the Bucks here. Got a question for Verno and KOC? Send them an email at [e-mail]! Or you can send the guys a tweet @ChrisVernonShow and @KevinOConnorNBA! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out http://theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In a world where coaches are still the main characters, the players are now legally chasing the ultimate bag, and the game of basketball is always the top priority. There was only one brand you can trust to help you wade through all the madness. Hey, I'm Tate Frazier from One Shiny Podcast, and you can join me twice a week as we navigate the always entertaining world of college basketball. Every Monday, the ringer's comment helps me make sense of the biggest stories from the weekend, and on Fridays we talk to our many friends of the program. We're locked in on the best postseason in sports. Make sure you follow One Shining Podcasts on Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Mismatcham. I'm Chris Vernon.

And joining me see that every Friday from the ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K.A. Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Brien. What a matchup last night. Chet Wemby 3. Incredible. What a Thursday night. You know, and I lamented the fact.

that we might not get four, as I was reading about it this morning. Four is scheduled for April 10th, and given you never know what teams are going to be doing at the end of the season, they might be in a position where they've already got their spot secure, so it gives them no reason to be running their starters out there at the end of the year. But here's hoping that we can see it one more time. But my God, three was an absolute epic. And it ends with both of them having sensational games. Victor Wembeiyama has 28 points, 13 rebounds, five assists. I'm sorry, five blocks, seven assists, two steals, and five three-pointers in the game.

And, I mean, there are plays the right. I would encourage anybody to go check out the highlights if you missed the game last night. In the first quarter, he swats Shea Gildjus Alexander, who is probably going going to be first team all NBA this year. Swats it like a five-year-old shot the ball. And then the threes he is making in this game, you know, Chet on the other end at one point is, you know, pulling out everything in his bag to score.

And at one point, hits this like running scoop underneath Wembe. At another point, has a pump fake from. the three point line and the drives in and crams one. And like, it just felt like you, you can't believe both of these guys are rookies in this league. It looked like two stars going head to head in this battle. And it just made you so excited because barring injury, the idea that we are going to get this for years to come. And, you know, as long as the spurs built properly around San Antonio. You know Chet is built properly around.

I mean, you could be seeing these matchups at literally the highest level of the conference for years to come, right? Kiv. Nailed it. 100% true. Like, this is just the beginning here. I felt like Victor Webbenyama looked like the best player in the world. Or in nights. Right?

Like, there's certain times you say it's Yokic. You might say it's Janus one night. Sometimes LeBron can tap into it with the fourth quarter comeback. earlier this week. There's nights that guys have where they look like the best player in the world. Victor Wenban Yama as a rookie

against the Oklahoma City Thunder looked like the best player in the world. Just absolutely unstoppable with the threes off the dribble. Unstoppable with the block shots. You mentioned the one against SGA at the beginning of the game. What about the one against Chet on the

jumper at the end of the game? Oh, my God. I mean, it's a moment. It felt like that I look, Chad has had an unbelievable season. There will be a good argument for rookie of the year. We have seen this over and over again. That moment that you just brought up is so viral, it won him rookie of the year. Oh, for sure.

And Victor is the rookie of the year. Sure. He is the rookie of the year. He will get all defensive team consideration. He will get some defensive player of the year votes, even though Rudy Gobert likely wins it because he's anchoring. the best defense in the league, and he is dominant in his own ways.

But Victor, it's amazing the level that he's at already. When you think about, like, I would recommend people go back like a year when he was playing for Mets, Mets 92 overseas. His playmaking was not at the level of creativity than it is now. His vision using his scoring as a threat

to create opportunities for teammates, it was nice for a night that the Spurs actually hit, shots. Oh, they made everything, too. They made everything. Look, it's hard to beat a team that makes 193. It was nice to see, though, because it was a preview of what it's going to be like for Victor if the spurs are able to get this roster right around him and optimize Victor.

He's going to have way more nights where he has seven assists, eight assists, where he's tapped, he's getting maybe even 10 assists at some point because his playmaking feel has come a long way in just a year in the same way that last year, his jumper came a same, a long way with Mets 92. Like every year, he's making some dramatic improvement. Even his defense is way better. Now, did you see the possession he had defending Jalen Williams in the second quarter where he's like, in a stance?

Defending Jalen Williams on the side of the floor, moving side to side. Jalen Williams doesn't want to shoot. He passes the ball to a cutter, Lindy Waters, I believe it was. And then Victor just says, get that the hell out of here with like a one-step rotation to the side because he covers so much space. He is the most transformative defender in the league. And offensively, because of what he did against Oklahoma City, on that night, he looked like the best player in the world. There was a part of me, as I was watching the play out last night, where I thought to my. I would resent this guy so much if I'm Ched Holmgren.

We would be going crazy over Chet in such an outsized way if one of two things. Either Wembe Yamma did not exist or if Chet wouldn't have gotten hurt in that summer game last year. Imagine if he would have played last year. Kevin, to that point, Victor Wembe Yamma became the second guy. Well, actually, he is going to become the second guy to have 100 blocks and 1003s as a rookie, which is a crazy thing to think about. And Chats the other, right? Chet became the first.

No, Chet's already there. Now, Wembe has 89 threes, so he will get there. but in the course of reading about that it was like Chet Holmgren became the first rookie ever to have 100 blocks and 1003s okay Victor Wembe Yamma will become the second

Wemba Yama has 89 three-pointers this year to go along with 180 blocks Kevin there's like over a quarter of the season left he has 180 blocks

What are we doing? I swear to God, I thought it was a misprint. When I read it, I'm like, no, he doesn't. He's not about 180. I was like, there's 24 games left for most of these teams. Over a quarter of the season. Or it's probably like mid-season, according to Kevin O'Connor. But there's at least over a quarter.

There's over a fourth of the season left that the guy's got $180. blocks. And so the point was, if it weren't for Wemby, Chet is doing something that has never been done, literally. It's never been done. No one's ever had 100 threes and 100 blocks as a rookie. And the one friggin time somebody does do it, another guy does it with more. That's so messed up. That's what I'm saying. I would resent him so much. And I'll give check this. You know, look, we say all this about Wemby, and we're going crazy about Wemby. Chad had 23, 7, 5 assists, the block. Like, he had a great game in his own right. He's awesome. But more importantly, he goes right at him. It doesn't matter what happens.

He gets blocked. He doesn't care. He's right back at him the next time. He's bodying and fighting for position on every single possession. Like, you could tell he's there for this. He's there for this battle, he's there for this fight. And it just struck me as I'm watching. I'm like, God bless. Can you imagine if Chet would have done this last season or if Wembe's season this year just didn't exist, Holmgren would be like, this would be like franchise player, oh my God, when's the last time we saw something like this kind of season he's having? Sure. I mean, it still is. It still is. This Despite, you know, the presence of Wembe, like it still is because he is absolutely sensational in his own right. He is one of the reasons why the Thunder are in contention for the one seed because he's been so excellent on defense as a rim protector.

He's been, you know, such a knockdown three-point shooter and a good connective piece as a passer and finish her at the rim. And, like, Chad is already one of the 30, 40 best players and all of the NBA. as a rookie, as a rookie. And like what I think about Chris is where these guys are today's rookies. And like if they were this way for the rest of their careers, they'd be multi-time, you know, all-stars. But they're going to get better. These guys are going to get better.

And they're already this good. And they seem like, as you said, it seems like they buy into this rivalry. Like they go at each other. There's something there between them. And I just look forward to the Spurs getting better. And hopefully they can get more wins against Oklahoma City and Oklahoma City can get more wins against the Spurs. And these teams go at it in the years to come.

OKC's far ahead now. They're at the top of the conference. The Spurs are at the bottom, right? But the Spurs got a win last night. They're first. And I just can't wait until the day the Spurs are better where these teams can really close. slash and really go toe to toe.

Because that rivalry could be something that lasts many, many, many years. And it could be one of those organic rivalries between these two freaky, long-arm, three-point shooting, shot, blocking, shot creating bigs that we have in Chet and Victor. And I just am very thankful that we have this blossoming rivalry in the NBA right now. And you think about that play, that signature play that you were talking about. Not only is he, you know, prior to, he's knocked down like a couple of different like 30 foot threes in the game that he stepped into. But that signature play is something like from the future, except it is the present. Like you think about the way that plays out.

It is a seven foot or seven foot one guy crossing over and stepping back and the other guy blocking it. Like what the hell is going on? It's incredible. What is going on? Like, yeah, it got blocked. But again, much like I was saying, if I'm chet, I just resent the hell out of this guy. It's like how many seven one guys are even doing that to create themselves space? for a shot, much less getting it blocked.

He's literally the only human on Earth that could have blocked that shot. Literally. I know, he really is the only one. The only human. The ball was like just leaving Chet's fingertips as Victor blocked it. There's nobody else that on earth. Yes. Nobody.

Why does this guy have to be on? around. Why does this guy exist? Literally the only guy that could do this to me. After hitting a three on the other end, too. Come on. He had just hit the three 10 seconds prior. I'd be so bad.

Oh, my God. Yeah. Dude, it is something else, man. Like, these guys are absolute treat. They are. So, we got more than we bargained for with

Chet Wemby, and now that is certainly one that our NBA fans are going to have circled on their calendar for hopefully the next five to ten years every time that they're going to be matched up. Fingers crossed, these guys both stay incredibly healthy in their careers, man, because they are one of the best shows in the league already watching those two go at it. They really are. One of the other big moments from last night was a lineup change for the Warriors. The Warriors have had some pretty impressive performances

Over the course of the last couple of weeks And now Andrew Wiggins is gone Away from the team for personal reasons Sometimes things like this happen Sometimes whether it's an injury or a suspension Or it's, you know By virtue Something happens

That causes something else to happen that would not have if the circumstances were different. And because Wiggins goes away with personal reasons and because Steve Kerr is kind of trying to figure out what his second unit is and doesn't want to mess in too much stuff, and still wants to have a defender with linked in the starting line. But all that kind of thing, like, I think. Like Moody, who at times has been behind Key,

bonus in the pecking order is now starting. They are five and one in games that Marcus Moody has started this year. I'm Marcus Moody, Moses Moody. They are five and one in games that Moses Moody has started this year. And he's a guy that I loved out of Arkansas out of the draft. and just at a very difficult time finding his way into the rotation solidly and has had guys bypass him along the way. And yet there he is given his opportunity,

and he's the first guy that Steve Kerr evidently mentioned in the locker room when he talked to the team, first guy that he brought up when he went to his press conference last night. And whether it's pods or whether it's moody or whether it's, you know, comminga coming along. We goofed about the two timelines for so long, but it does seem like this infusion of youth is now possibly going to reap great benefits. And in this weird way, it's different guys, maybe than we originally expected it to be,

i.e. Wiseman, but you've still got the old guard that's there, and these young guys that are able to contribute and give them a lot of depth, which is going to create an advantage every first quarter or early second quarter when teams are bringing out their starters. Are you starting to believe in the strength in number warriors again? I'm shouting out, share style, believe. I am totally believing in the warriors right now, Chris. They had a possession in the fourth quarter that looked like vintage warriors where Steph was locking up Brunson, sliding side to side. You know, Brunson gets rid of the ball to Alec Berks and Moses Moody is on him. He blocks the shot. Kaminga picks it up,

scores the other way going on transition. It was like Steph, Livingston, Iguodala finish. That's what it's just like in my brain what popped in. It just, the reliability on defense, the activity, the athletic finishing on the other end, just moving fast, turning defense into offense. The Warriors are having more and more plays like that ever since Straymond got back, where they're just locking in on defense, just suffocating the opponent with what they want to do, containing their best players. And I think with these young guys, Kaminga's development, we've talked about that on the

podcast already, how much better he's gotten, we've talked a lot about pods. what if Moody, as you said, Wiggins' absence opens up an opportunity for Kerr to give Moody these minutes finally. What if he's that next piece? Trace Jackson Davis off the bench has shown some flashes as well. What if Moody now, every time he's really gotten chances, he's done a pretty good job. I mean, this isn't the first time Moses Moody has shown potential. So, you know, if Moody can be a reliable shooter from three, continue to make solid decisions on the floor, and locked down across positions like he did last night, activity off ball as well.

What if he becomes a pretty clear rotation guy for the playoffs for the Warriors when they already look like a team that can, I mean, like you don't want to be a top seed right now with going against Golden State. Like they look like they could be a real threat. One of the things that I thought when I saw them in person earlier this year was, geez, man, they don't have enough athletes. Like you're watching them as Clay had turned into what Clay is,

and you're just watching it. It's like, comminga stands out like a sore thumb as an athlete. But, you know, and of course, you go back to that Martin Luther King Day game, which was the G.G. Jackson game. And it was just a bunch of guys like Vince Williams, the G.G. Jackson. A bunch of guys that were like super athletic that were playing against them. And I thought, like, wow, there's like a real athletic disadvantage that this team has, right now because comminga's on this level of like being able to run around a jump at the like

spry but the rest of these guys but now when you watch them and give got gary patent back in who's quick guy good athlete and you got gary peyton now you've got moody there you've got comminga there like it's starting to look and and of course you've got the it's almost like the old heads they come off the bench with Chris Paul and Clay Thompson and that group. It's like they did get a surge of athleticism that lets them, you know, create some turnovers, get in passing lanes, get out and run a little bit because it is, they are so much more dangerous when you get the Curry and Space thing. And you get Draymond taking it off the rim and then running the fast break and guys flaring

out and setting up or driving to the basket. It's like, she's just adding Moody into the mix because Wiggins just wasn't playing that way. He is an athlete, but I don't know what the hell happened to him post him being one of the best players on the floor through a finals run. For these last couple years, it has not been right. And obviously he's going through something in his personal life where he's. he's away from the team again.

But this may have been a true blessing in disguise because it forces Moody into action and Moody then becomes so good for them that it becomes undeniable. Because there's no question. You watch Moody play and you watch with the intensity that he comes with. It is in stark contrast

to what they've gotten out of Wiggins this year. It just is. I think he's better than Wiggins. I would rather play him than Wiggins. and I think he's better for that team. Now we will see once he comes back and you never know how long he's going to be gone from the team.

But I actually think this could be something that Kerr just stumbled into that he would not have done but by virtue of Wiggins leaving the team, he might have found what ends up being his best lineup. For all we know, this could be the last we see of Andrew Wiggins. Could.

Could be. He missed, what, three months last season? That's right. It's February right now. And, I mean, you know, he might not return until middle of May. Right. Who knows? It's possible.

And Moody could be the guy for the remainder of the season. And then Wiggins becomes a contract filler next year. He, last year, I just pulled it up. He was gone for two months. His last game was on February 13th last year. And then he returned for the first round of a part. playoffs in April so he missed two months last year similar timeline here will he come back for the playoffs will the warriors want him back cold off the bench for the playoffs i don't know i like moody though

i like moody a lot i've always liked moody and it's cool to see it's cool to see him actually have an opportunity here because you know if this isn't the last time he's going to be getting minutes with wiggins gone right minutes are going to continue the war Warriors just like it's you mentioned the two timeline approach. It feels like it's converging now, right? Crazy. It really does. Like I feel like it all makes sense at this moment with pods playing at the level he is as a starter.

Moody starting Kaminga having big games. He has 25 points last night. He's had a ton of great performances ever since he called out Steve Kerr. That was the turning point for him, it seems like. And I really like Trace Jackson Davis. I'm a huge fan of him coming off. the Warriors bench and you pair him with the veterans, Chris Paul, Clay Thompson now sacrificing coming off the bench, Gary Payton getting minutes off the bench. The Warriors just feel like

they are now all on one timeline because these young players are prepared to play and they fit their style of play. Well, and it's playing out like last year, Kevin, which is Memphis, great season, draws the Lakers, Sacramento, unbelievable season. draws the Warriors. And literally gets beat by, what, a 50 ball in a game seven by Steph Curry? And it's like, okay, they've got Steph Curry and we don't. And it's like these teams that are at the top, whether it's Minnesota or Oklahoma City, whoever, you have to be sitting there going like, Jesus, these amazing seasons.

And then we're going to end up drawing like these teams seem to be getting it right. and there was a segment during the season where we were out on both of them, both the Lakers and the Warriors. And now you get to these last like 20 games of the season and you watch them

and within a week's time, we've watched the Warriors and then we turned around and we watched that Lakers team and what they did against the Clippers the other night and you're going, hold the phone now. Like,

okay, you still don't want to see them where you got to beat this crew four times in seven in seven games. And a nightmare, if you're one of these high seeds, then that's going to be your draw. So right now, we have the clippers. They are in the middle at the four seed right now.

They are two and a half back from the nuggets as the three seed. Okay, let me take a quick 20 second time out tell you, I did not mention this on the last pod. I saw them a week ago. The first time I saw them, I came to this show and I told you, Kevin, it's probably the best team I saw in person. They weren't even trying. I did not feel like they were going full speed and I was just in absolute awe of how good it looked with Harden kind of running the show, navigating it. Then you got Paul and Kauai was at peak of powers, whatever. And again, I saw them.

It was the second night of a back-to-back after they had gotten smoked by Oklahoma City. And this is right after the All-Star break. So I'm giving that as a caveat. Bro, it was radically different. Something's changed. Hardin. Hardin looked like he ate the entire All-Star break when I saw him. It just didn't even, like, just not engaged.

He wasn't engaged in the Oklahoma City one and the same one. You know, this happened last year. Do you remember? They came back from the All-Star break. He was like King of Kings before the All-Star break for Philadelphia. And it came back and it just wasn't, I don't know, it was like you got that week off and he wasn't that same guy. And I know Doc said on Bill's podcast that it was because he wasn't an All-Star. He felt like he had sacrificed.

He's leading the league and assistant. was not rewarded for that. And so things changed after that. But that was a team that I do feel like the All-Star break hurt them. Because I felt like they were, you know, they were 33 and 11, I think, after that 0-and-5 start with Hardin. But they were cracking. And I was like, geez, this is the team you don't want to see. This is the Denver competition.

And then the last time I saw them and then they turned around and lost again. and then we just saw them blow that 21-point lead to the Lakers. Like, they have been bleh post-all-star break. Like a team that I should not have great belief in. They don't look first-rate since then. And I know they had kind of won all of us over. But, all right, you can continue. I just wanted to throw that in there because they are not what they were.

and the Lakers took advantage of that the other night. I think it's important context because they definitely don't look the same as the top three, Minnesota, OKC, and Denver. And then there are only three games up on the Suns, three and a half games up on the Pelicans, four games up on the Mavs, four and a half games up on the Kings. So the Clippers are kind of in that middle as the four seed where they could move up, they could move down, or maybe they just stay in the four spot. But I bring all that context because there's currently three and a half games of separation between the five and the ten. The sons, the pelicans, the Mavericks, the Kings, the Lakers, and the Warriors, only three and a half games separate those six teams. Who do you think ends up in the five in the six spot of those six with the guaranteed playoff spots? Okay.

I'm a Dallas believer. I am too. I think Dallas is one of them. I think Dallas gets one of those two spots. Look, they're eight and two in their last 10. One of them is to the Pacers where they ran into Buzzsaw. The other one was the true shot, which I was watching that game. And it was one of the most, it was one of those moments where it's the weirdest thing.

I was watching, that was a league past night. So me and my son were just flipping around to different games. and landed on that. That's the one we decided to watch because it was the most competitive game going on. So we were watching that fourth quarter and it became a Max Strues party. That was one of the most unbelievable heaters

I have ever seen in my life. And there's a timeout in between it. I mean, they went, he hit four threes, and then Mitchell hit a three, then Mitchell banked in a three, and then Struz hit the buzzer beater. It was like seven for seven. from three in the last like five minutes of the game.

It's crazy. So it didn't make me, also what gets underscored because it was all the, are undersold because it was all about Struces craziness. Dude, Luca and Kyrie were simultaneously amazing. Amazing. And they didn't even play their bigs in that game. Gafford didn't even play. lively didn't even really play

like they're running Maxie Kleepe out there in the closing lineup at center anyway we talked about them a couple weeks ago I'm a Dallas guy so I think Dallas is wrong for me Yeah Phoenix is the tough one because they have the toughest remaining schedule in the league right now

like they like their schedule is tough the remainder of the year so they're they're iffy for me I think I'd probably go with the clippers still no no no let's assume the clipper's oh you're saying they're the four yeah so let's just assume they hold on there so five and six like they the guaranteed playoff spots

the sons if the sons hold on to one of those two spots or even move up the four if they hold on to one of those that bodes well for them considering how tough the remainder of the season schedule is that bodes well for them come playoff time i'd say that but i like the dallas mavericks have a much easier schedule. The Lakers

have a moderate schedule. The Warriors have an easier schedule. It's going to be hard for the suns to hold on to that. Obviously, they have the advantage right now. This is tough. So close, man. Isn't it going to be crazy? It is so close because even

Golden State who's the hottest one outside of Dallas, they're eight and two in their last 10 games. They're three back. They're three back right now. That's so close.

Here's the problem. I mean, they're at Toronto, at Boston, Milwaukee. So they got two really tough ones. Those are going to be interesting. Boy,

at Boston on Sunday is great. That's a 2.30 game. Yeah. Uh-huh. That's a great game. I know. I guess I'll say Phoenix. So Phoenix,

so you get, I think I agree with you. I'm pretty sure. Sun's hold on. So Suns, Mavericks, which would mean the plan would be, in some order, Pelicans, Kings, Lakers, Warriors.

Yeah, I mean, they're still, look, they got an over 500 record on the road, and they're 20 and 11 at home. Mm-hmm. And you figure their record is great with the three guys. I know that's the most unbelievable caveat in the world. Because, okay, how many of these last 20-something

are they going to have the three guys? but even if they just have them for a portion. Like they're obviously pretty damn good with just the two guys. Yeah. And I do think that they're going to play this thing out. Like some of these teams are going to coast. Yeah, I think that's who I'd say. I think I'd still say Phoenix.

I guess I'd have to trust them the most. But imagine if it was, let's say it was Dallas and New Orleans. Okay? and New Orleans holds on to their spot where they are right now. You would have a play in of Phoenix, Sacramento, Golden State, and the Lakers.

Unbelievable. Crazy. I know. Come on. And we might get that. You would have Kevin Durant, LeBron. It's really totally possible.

You have Kevin Durant, LeBron, James, and Steph Curry all in the play end. Come on. With only two of them coming out. And a monta subonis. Brother. Yeah, that's crazy.

I guess I'd have to say Dallas or Phoenix. That's what I'd say today. But I don't feel confident at all. I would not wager a dollar on it. On that playing out that way. We got news from Roach. Let me hear it. ESPN sources.

After clearing waivers, center Mike Muscala plans to sign with the Oklahoma City Thunder in my best Mike Francesa voice oh who cares you ever seen that clip or the guy calls into his show

it's one of my favorite sports radio clips ever guy calls into his show and ask him about Stan Lee and if you ever had a chance to meet him and the guy

he's like Stan Lee who is Stan Lee he's like Stan Lee you know the guy that created all the all the comments all spider man like all all all the comments and he's like oh who cares literally the day he died oh who cares who cares the guy drew pitches who cares

so in my mike frances a voice regarding mike moscala going back to oklah to oklah who cares Who cares? Let's get to the other side. So we talk about how it's a nightmare for some of these highly ranked Western Conference teams that they may have to face former champions

like the Warriors or the Lakers. In the east side, it looks like at the top, you know the Celtics are there, but there is one team separating the Celtics and the Bucks. Bucks obviously have a chance to climb over Cleveland before it's all said and done.

And you got me believing that that is exactly how this is going to play out because Kevin O'Connor was the author of an article about how Doc Rivers has fixed the Milwaukee Bucks. Do tell how has Doc fixed the Bucks. So I wrote an article in the ringer this week. week also talked about it with Tate Frazier on his show with family. Oh, Giz. All right.

Go ahead. I love you, Dave. Talked about it with Tate on his show through the ringer. In the article, you can see on the ringer.com going through how, you know, changing schemes, but depending on

matchups. Did he change everything or is just not dumb? Like the Adrian Griffin thing was dumb. Like they had a formula. Chris, yes. They have a gigantic monster in the middle who's not exactly Mr. Mobile.

And so it's like, hey, maybe it's best that we drop this monster in front of the goal and have him defend the basket, which he has proven. moving to be great at while we have the other octopus fly around and block every shot. Like, it's not rocket science. This is what Buck's fans have been saying the whole year.

It's like Adrian Griffin is doing less than the minimum. He is doing the dumbest possible thing ever with the scheme and the training camp that he installed, the players four games in, they asked for Brooke to drop on defense. but more had to change. Adrian Griffin's growth, of course of the year, often had his wing defenders tightly defending inferior three-point shooters. So when there was penetration, there wasn't as much help.

Ayanas might not be debuting the octopus, as you said, filing his arms around the rim. They are now getting back in transition more often. They aren't crashing the boards as much on offense. They have gone from allowing the most transition offense in the entire league to the second few. newest fast break points under Doc Rivers. They have gone from near the bottom of the league,

22nd in defensive rating, to tied for second in defensive rating ever since Adrian Griffin Griffin was fired. Joe Prunty coached three of those games, Doc, all the remainder of them. They have done a good job at, at, like you said, Chris, using their big, long arms, huge guys to protect the rim now. they are allowing near the fewest points at the rim in the half court now because of their decisions to help off of shooters, their decisions to have Janus near the rim, their defensive rebounding is better. They are just looking more like the defense that we've seen in recent years under Budenholzer because they're doing a lot of the same things that Bud did except Doc.

One thing I really like that he's doing is how he's using different defensive schemes depending on matchups. I think that coaching staff is doing a really good job at sometimes against the Sixers and the Hornets. They switched almost everything on the perimeter. Against the Nuggets. They played drop defense pretty much the entire game. Against the Timberwolves, they did a hybrid. They switched certain actions. They dropped on other actions.

They seem like a team that is playing connected. They're communicating on defense. Like there's times where Dame might switch on to a big, And then they're immediately signaling for a scram switch to get Brooke Lopez on a Dames guy. And then Dane rotates to somebody else. Like they are communicating. They are a team that is executing a plan. And that is something that they didn't have under Adrian Griffin where players were publicly and, of course, privately complaining about, we don't know what we're doing.

We don't know what the plan is. We feel like we aren't having this plan communicated to us. And we knew with Griffin that communication was an issue ever since. training camp with Terry Stotz walked out on the team. So I think with the Bucks now, Doc Rivers, I have been critical of him many times over the years, the blown 3-1 leads, the lack of adjustments in the playoffs. We'll see how it pans out for him in the playoffs. But at worst, he's an average coach.

An average is better than the worst coach in basketball. So I think for the Bucks and for Bucks fans particularly, this is why they were saying a change needs to be made. He's also very good and has always been very good at getting a team to play the best defense that they can play. Yes. And finding guys that are great defensive coaches. Back in the Boston days, it was Tom Tibido.

And I will tell you, as someone who covered a lot of games that Dave Yeager coached, either as an assistant coach or then when he became the head coach, he is a great, defensive basketball coach. And that was super smart because once it was done in Philly, I think Yeager was like a, I think he was a consultant in Cleveland.

But Doc got him to come with him over there to Milwaukee. And as someone who has been around it and covered him and listened to him at press conferences, etc., and watched him construct game plans, especially against teams that were significantly more talented.

Oh, yeah. And what I saw him, the hell I saw opposing stars have to go through to get what they, and make them uncomfortable. He's really good. He's really good. And so, look,

this team has some big defensive deficiencies. And most importantly, that point of attack defense. And that is, right? like there's a limit to how good your defense is going to be. Sure. There is.

If you're running Lillard and Beasley out there. But Beasley been better. Like he was really, really bad earlier in the season. And I, give him a little bit of credit. Committed at least. He's been,

yes, he's been more committed. I think maybe with him, he's the type of guy having a structure and having a plan and all that might have helped. Accountability. Yeah. It just,

like I know somebody reported it. I think it was Chris Haynes. Chris Haynes reported earlier in the week that Doc sat down with every player and said, this is what I want you to do, this is what I don't want you to do. Simple stuff that Griffin didn't do. And one of the things Eric Neem had in his article in The Athletic that I also thought was interesting is he had an anecdote about how Doc switched the side they go with the ball to begin games because he wants their defense in front of their own bench

in the second half of games. So having the coaching staff right there next to the players in the second half of games, which is what Doc has done for years. That change happened after the All-Star break. So it's these little details talking to players about what not to do, where the team is going to be in the second half of games

when they're on the road. These little things, I think, are reflective of what's really happening behind the scenes. with the game planning, with this coaching staff that is experienced. The Bucks, to me, look like a finals contended now. They were eight and eight since Doc took over. They don't have a great record. That's not because of their defense.

Their defense is looking more like the team we hoped for that could show finals potential. It's because their offense hasn't just been firing on all cylinders. I don't think that's anything other than some tough matchups, shots not falling. but Dane's looking better. They are running really higher, deeper ball screens with the screen set closer to the logo further away from the BAS and giving him more of a runway. They're running a little bit more two-man action

with Dane and Janus and the moments that matter in games. I'm overall really encouraged, and for all the public complaining Doc has done about, oh, they shouldn't have hired me mid-season. I'm starting to sound like Doc, my voice cracking. Like they shouldn't have hired me of the season, it's the hardest thing I've ever done. I'm actually pretty impressed with how much the coaching staff has changed things on the fly

with what, three practices and just the All-Star break? They've had very little time to do this, and already the team is looking significantly better. They look more like a true threat in the Eastern Conference more than they ever have all season. And in the end, when you get to the playoffs, they still can on any given night have two guys that can be the best player on the floor. Yep. Mm-hmm.

Sometimes it's not that hard, you know, like they've got, we've got, we got two of these guys. And one night, one of them might have 40 and the other night, another guy might have 40. And so stars win in this league. That's been the history of the league. And they've got two. Big ones.

Big ones. They just got to figure it out. That's got to be the scary thing for Boston. I mean, Boston is so far ahead. right now. They are four and a half games up on Minnesota, eight games up on Cleveland and Milwaukee. So how do you keep your edge? You know? You got to Boston. But they aren't running away with it. They are running away with it. And if Porzingas is healthy, they likely still remain the favorite, but the bucks are certainly making a strong case that,

hey, we're at least on par with this team. And you know what, Chris? We might see him. We might see them together, if Boston's going to be the one seed, and if the bucks are going to be the two or the three seed, those teams can't match up until the Eastern Conference finals. That could be what we get. If I'd be fair, the one thing I would be worried about with Boston is, and I know that,

look, when your records are great and everything's so great, no one is going to act like it couldn't happen. But when you get to the playoffs, and a team is just game planning for you, are you able to win the night that you just can't get threes to drop? It's so prevalent in what they do that, you know, when we saw this years ago, sometimes history repeats yourself, you remember, like, yeah, you were talking about that Houston team, right, that got downed by, uh, that got downed by Golden State.

And, you know, we famously remember them going, at that time, 27, over 27 or whatever it was, from three. But now teams shoot 50 of them. They might shoot 53. So what happens when you go 13 for 50 in a game? You are like, there's a variance that you play with. They are awesome and the variance works out in their favor, obviously, many more times than not. but we watched them get beat by a vastly inferior team last year.

The heat played their way into their situation. And we can redo it. We can say, oh, yeah, but it's Spoh and it's Jimmy Butler or whatever else. Like, the Celtics were way better all year long than them, all year long. And they got to the playoffs, and next thing you know, it's a freaking Caleb Martin show or whatever. and now you're having to play games where it's not nearly as free flowing and those threes become a little harder to hit

and so that would be my only concern I think their success is very dependent on variance I don't know if they have okay this isn't going well for us now we're going to switch to doing it this way as maybe some other teams do that's all I'd say

And I'm not sure Missoula is the guy that would figure it out if it wasn't going, you know, when the other team is inevitably going to take away the three things you care about doing the most. This is where Porzingis is going to have to have big games for Boston. And I believe he can. Of course. Porzingis has been one of the 20, 30 best players in the NBA this year. Obviously, great room protector, but offensively, not just a, he's not just a pick and pop guy. He's not just attacking closeouts. He's been one of the league's best players in all the basketball scoring on the post

because he is just a mismatch killer. He can shoot over the top of smaller guys. He has a greater range of power moves than he ever has had in his entire career, getting into hook shots, lowering his shoulder, getting closer to the rim. KP is going to have to be that piece come postseason time where if Boston has a night, threes aren't falling, you might be feeding poor Zingis with a, post up or a face-up opportunity and letting him go to work. It's not always going to be Tatum.

It's not always going to be Brown. Sometimes it's going to have to be Porzingis, and he's looking like a guy who can do it. We'll see if he can come postseason time. Last two things real quick. They very well may face. It's possible they could even face in the first round, Philadelphia. We heard from M. Bid for the first time since we last spoke.

That's crazy, dude. Isn't it? That's crazy. I'd say this. I don't know if you saw. all the comments, you know, the, we're just going to have to see. And then they're like, is there a timeline? And he's like, there is no timeline.

What is that? I don't know. It did not fill me with a tremendous amount of confidence. Like, the only thing you can hang on to is, you know, him saying, that's the plan. Like, that was, that's the most positive thing that came out of it. It's like, hey, are we going to see you again? you know, are you going to be able to come back by the end of the season? He's like, that's the plan.

But then when asked for a timeline or when you're going to start doing this, you know, everything about the quote procedure was very hush, hush, and now even when we got him with the opportunity to talk, I'm, it was, look, I am super hopeful we get to see him. After watching that interview, I was much less confident. That's just me.

I was much less confident. that we will see him be able to play before the end of the season. And maybe I just read it wrong, but that's what I felt when I was watching him talk. Here's what I add to that. A couple weeks ago on this podcast, I said, you know, mid to late March is what I had heard for Embed's return. Woj said in recent days he's heard some within the Sixers' Hope late March.

So if each of our reporting is to be believed as accurate, mid to late March has moved to late March and then Embed is coming out talking like this not a lot of optimism Maybe that's not like a guy that felt like he was coming back Well I can't it was just a lot of will see I know but I can't imagine you go up there like hey guys I know I mean I'm sure he's unhappy that he has to go through this rehab

In the middle of a dominant season where the Sixers looked like a finals contender But I do think there's a way to say like I've started rehab, you know, obviously it's going to be up to the doctors, but I want to be back out there and you know what I mean? I mean, he did say that too. He said if I feel good I'm playing and you know, he wants to play regardless of what their record is.

It doesn't matter. So he did say that. It's just not with the biggest smile on it. It didn't. It wasn't with a lot of confidence. No. And I mean, this, like we, I mean, everybody saw this coming. They are sliding hard right now.

They are losing games. I mean, look, it's a whatever, seven foot something, 280 pound guy. I know. It's going to be tough. But, but, I mean, regardless of where they are, it is funny. Like, it is really funny how it's turning into, it could be like Golden State and the Lakers in the play in, in the west side. And then in the east, if the Sixers slide down, it could be the heat in the Sixers. you don't want to face the heat right now

no you don't want to face the sixers if they have him beat back and if he's looking good to close the season it's a nightmare it's crazy it really is crazy no it's totally possible that in the west and the east that the top two seeds could have harder first round opponents than second round opponents

yeah that could happen for sure. Because you've got to beat those teams, you know, four out of seven times. And these are all time, a feature all time greats that you're playing against.

Or teams that have just had all the playoffs scars, all of them. And you may be going through it for your first time. Or just very early in the process. And it's also going to be totally matchup dependent, totally matchup. matchup dependent. You know, are you going to be able to play against the team that, you know, just dominates you size-wise?

Like, if I'll give you, I'll give you example, because this is last year with Memphis, who was the second seat. If I'm Oklahoma City, I want, like hell to stay away from L.A. Be an absolute nightmare to have to play them. A bunch of grown men and that size, and they're going to slow. the thing down and you'll never get a call. It's no. That would be the team you want to stay away from. Whereas I think they could handle their own, you know, hold their own against like somebody like Oklahoma City. I'm sorry, against Golden State.

So a lot of it's going to be matchup dependent to me. But now that Utah's kind of fallen back, we pretty well know the 10 in the West. And now it's just, but that positioning means literally everything. whether or not we're going to be talking about you as a team that's on the cusp of maybe making a conference finals or a team that's looked at as a disappointment because you got bounced in the first round and really it was all because of who you matched up with more so than maybe the quality of your team it's tough for some of these teams you know it's on my mind what's that i'd love to see a day where they let the top three seats choose their first round opponent from the five to eight pool.

I would love to see it. I just think it would create extra drama, extra incentive for OKC, Denver and Minnesota to go get the one seed. It would be far more meaningful for those teams to go chase. And it would matter more if the bucks and the calves were fighting for the two to get that second choice. It matter more that the Knicks can create separations. and be the four. So, you know, they are not the team that is being chosen by a top three spot. It's just, I don't want to go on too long.

But I just, I just think the end stretch is amazing as it's going to be. Could be even more amazing with that drama attached on top of it. That's all. We're still going to get, look, at least we're still going to get it to play out, and there will be drama with the play in. Oh, for sure. a great, we're going to get to see. It could be the first time in NBA history that someone was able to hang a in-season tournament banner and a play-in tournament banner if the Lakers can pull it off.

I'd still pick the Thunder in a series over him. No, you wouldn't. I know you say I'll change. You will. You will. We'll see if they do. We'll see. we'll see if the basketball gods will provide us that opportunity to make that prediction.

Well, I mean, obviously it's changed since they got Mascala. Yeah, maybe now I'll pick the Lakers after that. Oh, okay. All right. All right, it's going to do it for today's show. Thank you our executive producer Jesse Lopez as always. And Kevin, I'll talk to you next week. I'm looking forward to it.

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