The Mismatch - Can Devin Booker Win MVP? Plus, KOC’s Power Rankings, the Surging Sixers, and True Contenders

Episode Date: November 28, 2023

Verno and KOC discuss the dominant performance by Joel Embiid, Tyrese Maxey, and the rest of the 76ers as they blew out the Lakers by 44 points on Monday night (01:05). After watching the Suns and Timberwolves over the weekend, both teams look like legit championship contenders (21:47). Next, the guys dive into KOC’s power rankings after the first month of the season (30:08). Also, they discuss their concerns about the Pistons, debate whether CJ McCollum should come off the bench when he returns from injury, and the bad optics the league is putting themselves in with the Josh Giddey investigation (41:39). You can read KOC’s First Month NBA Power Rankings here Got a question for Verno and KOC? Send them an email at [e-mail]! Or you can send the guys a tweet @ChrisVernonShow and @KevinOConnorNBA! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out theringer.com/RG to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What would you do if everyone said they heard your trailer a hundred times? You'd probably make a new one. I'm Justin Sales, the host of The Wedding Scammer, the ringer's first ever true crime pod. We've been hunting a con man for a few weeks now, and our hunt is coming to an end. Schemes, Heartbreak, How to Put On a Wire. We've covered all this and more, but there are still a few surprises left. Binge the Wedding Scammer wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the mismatch.

I'm Chris Vernon and joining me as he does every Monday night from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, A.K.A. Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Blesserian, Kevin O'Candyland, Kevin O'Feere. Kevin O'Fee. How are you doing tonight, man? What's up? I'm great. We were going to record after what was sure to be a raucous Philadelphia-76ers Los Angeles Lakers game that in fact was not raucous at all and ended with the Philadelphia 76ers beating the Lakers 138 to 94, including not taking their foot off the gas

and outscoring the Lakers 40 to 14 in the final frame of the game. Just a colossal beat down. And Joel M. Bede had his first triple double of the year. They were led in scoring by Tyrese Maxie, but Joel M. Bede ended the night with 30 points, 11 rebounds, 11 assists, an efficient 9 of 15 from the field,

two of three from three, 10 of 12 from the free throw line, just dominating performance to say the least. And that was, that was mega impressive. They got a season high out of Pat Bev, and they were obviously amped up and ready to go for that game. And the Lakers on the other side were not amped up

and ready to go for that game. Even got to see Mo Bamba enter the game late. Revenge game. Mo Bamba revenge game. He hit a three and had two dunks. So Mo Bamba even got off the bench and got some minutes at the end of that one when they were just putting it on the Lakers. But, man, I mean, obviously the Sixers,

they get off to an amazing start. to the year. What are they? 7-1, 8-1 at one point, and then it's been about 500 basketball since then. But now, you know, a big win against Oklahoma City over the weekend on Saturday, like on the road in OKC and then back home against the Lakers on Monday night and completely smoke them. I feel like with the Sixers, like when they were in the middle of playing that 500 basketball, I saw some tweets on my timeline like, ah, you know, Max, he kind of passed the hot start and all that. But I mean, the dude still kicking ass. Twenty-eight against a lot. okay c 31 against the lakers um he's still one of the NBA's best shooters we saw that again with

tonight's game five of 12 from three the guy just fires away from any range at all any position off balance it doesn't matter the sixers have their two guys and they beat in maxi and even with ubre still out right now like i think watching this team like you just see batum with the connectivity with his playmaking four assists tonight you see it with like guys like tobias harris obviously night, not his best night, but we've talked about him throughout the year. And then Robert Covington, good defense, rebounding, size, versatility. The hardened

trade brought in Marcus Morris not so good, but two good wing forward types of guys to this rotation that has helped them kind of overcome not having UBRE. So when he comes back, I mean, this team's going to feel a heck of a lot more complete right now. And then on the flip side, you see

them down wings and it absolutely kills them. They got no Rui Hachamura. They got no Cam Reddish. Vanderbilt's still out. Gabe Vincent, obviously still not playing with them. And, you know, it's like,

hey, you should be able to, you surround AD and LeBron with anything. But like, you're testing it when you're surrounding him with DeAngelo, Russell, Tarine Prince, and Max Christie. I mean, I don't know.

Like, we figured out when it doesn't look good. And they're down a couple of guys. And you see the profound effect. that that can have. Just being down, you know, they get those, they got those three guys that are out for them. Now obviously Vanderbilt hasn't been a part of things, but not having Hachamora or Reddish is extremely noticeable.

Not only in that starting lineup, but then as soon as you get to that bench. And so they clearly are a team that needs to have all of their guys healthy to look like they can look. I mean, the other guys around AD and LeBron, it has to be better than what they're fielding tonight when you're playing against one of the better teams in the league. That's absolutely true.

And I think, you know, when it comes to that, the Lakers role players you're talking about against the Sixers role players that supporting cast, I think with the Sixers, there's also an element of unpredictability, the placement you can put those. guys on the floor like in the first half when the sixers were beginning to build their lead on the lakers there was a player Patrick beverly sent an on ball screen for tyrese maxi maxi hits him on the

short roll and beverly who's like six foot two around the free throw and throws a lob to paul reed for a dunk i think like the sixers they put guys in so many different types of positions on the floor that they become very difficult to defend so whether it's batum with the connective passing or Beverly getting put in different spots. Philly is doing a really good job of playing off their best players with Embed and Maxi in ways where, like, the Lakers are very good. But they don't have that offensive creativity that I think that you saw with Sixers Tonight and have all season. Yeah, it's a lot of role players that they've been able to put around those two guys. They have consistently great Darius Maxie and Joelle Ambide.

and then that third guy on the majority of nights is going to be Tobias Harris and he's going to take the third. They have a real pecking order. And then Ubrae was fitting in there. But like the rest of those guys, it might be Melton, it might be Batum, it might be Roco. But those guys know their role and they know they're standing within that team. They've got their stars and they've got their role players. And it's pretty impressive.

and I do think that having those two guys and their personalities and how well they get along and how well they play together. And Maxie and Abed does kind of filter down. And you've got to imagine that the whole Hardin deal was pretty galvanizing. And not only did they extract Hardin from that situation enabling Maxie to be even better. They've got the new coach. And these are long-term vet role players. right these guys made careers being role players so they know exactly where they what they're supposed

to be doing then and their job is to do the dirty work make open shots when they can and augment the best players on the team you know you're the screen setter you're the guy that's got to die for loose balls you're the guy that's got to hold his hand up when it's uh when it's somebody's foul you know that's the deal and then of course they got pad Bev coming off the bench where in a game like this, it's like he'll act like it's the NBA finals. And he did. And those guys are extremely valuable.

We've talked about it before. I have seen a couple of teams since we last spoke. Two of great interest because of where they are in the NBA standings right now. One is the number one team in the Western Conference, who I saw yesterday afternoon, and that was the Minnesota Timberwolves. First opportunity to get to see them in person this year. I got a little distraught because on my way to the arena,

I was told that Anthony Edwards was not going to play, and then that got changed, and he ended up being in the starting lineup yesterday, because I certainly wanted to see him in person. Minnesota, as we know from watching them on, television, they make everybody look small and just their overwhelming size is something that stands out. The other thing is they have figured out how to play together. Not only Cat and Gobert.

It doesn't look clunky. It doesn't look weird anymore. I do think that there was a real blessing in disguise that took place with Anthony Edwards. Anthony Edwards getting treated like the best player on the team last year and having to face all manner of different defenses and double teams. And we talk about being like the top guy on the dry erase board in the locker room. He was that by virtue of cat being out, virtually all of last year. And watching them yesterday, they are absolutely awesome. there are going to be a few things that could possibly hold them back in the long run,

but they have Conley is playing great basketball and is like the perfect point guard to make all of those guys better and to set them up but also take advantage when he has open shots. And they did not have McDaniels, so I didn't get to see that, which obviously makes them even more devastating. defensively. But Nikila Alexander Walker will guard as well. You know, he's a hustle guy who's kind of found a home there and knows how to play his role.

And I was super impressed by them. First time to get to see them in person yesterday. They are as advertised to say the least. And the size is just going to give them such an incredible. advantage against so many teams. We see it on the flip side and a team we'll talk about in a little while with Orlando, where they come in and they just, they have these long wingspans and they have this size. Now, I don't really understand why when I was getting ready for that game yesterday,

I don't understand why their defensive rating is so much better at home than it is on the road. It's a huge split. It's like 100 at home. and it's like 113 on the road, which is like middle of the pack. But they're probably going to have home court advantage anyway. Like I'd be stunned if that is not a home court advantage team, and they're certainly going to have a chance at one of the top three seats in the league this year, unless, of course, they withstand some kind of terrible injuries or whatever could be fell to.

But, yeah, they're awesome. They're awesome. And they got a good mix. I'm just going to let you talk, but I was waiting for you to bring up the fact that Rudy Gobert dunked on Jaron Jackson Jr. And I'm disappointed that you didn't bring it up. I'm very disappointed. He already had a foul.

Four minutes and didn't bring up Gobert dunking on the defensive player of the year. Where was it, Chris? You were going to bring that up? He already had a foul. Where you already had a foul or something? You're not watching? What are you doing in the bathroom? It's not you.

I mean, there's no sense in trying to get another touch foul on that when you've already got one foul. No sense in trying when you're losing and your team sucks. Oh, that team is terrible. And you're in a hole and you're not going to make the playoffs. And it sucks. It's disappointing.

You never know. Hey, look. The job, the job suspension really. I mean, but here's a thing. It's not. Why are you?

Don't be a casual. How much better? How much better is this team going to be? Oh, they don't have C&D. El Dama. They don't have CET. Kevin.

Kevin. They don't have six of their top eight players. Okay. They don't have Marcus Smart either. I know. They're missing some guys. At the end of the day, though. They are missing their starting point guard.

They are missing. They're starting small forward. They are missing their starting center. They are missing their backup shooting guard. They're missing their backup power forward. And they are missing their backup center. Take six of the top eight guys off. any team in the league and see what they look like.

Hell, you took fucking Cam Reddish off the Lakers tonight and they got B-5,000. All right. Okay. So here's this what I want to bring up. Are you at all, when I watch the Grizzlies, I'm thinking to myself like, damn, like, we talked before the season about, oh, Desmond Bain without John Morant could be averaging close to 30. He has not quite taken the leap.

23.6 point game. His three-point percentage numbers are down. He's not doing a hell of a lot more off the time. the dribble from two. Jaron Jackson, Jr., he's back to putting up pretty much the same numbers he was before last season, streaky from behind the arc, below 30% from three. He's not much more developed off the dribble as a score. Are you at all disappointed that Bain and Jackson haven't been able to elevate their play

at a point that hasn't brought the Grizzlies? I'm not saying that they should be a winning team, but they're three and 13. How much of that is due to how much of that is due to the best players, Bain and Jackson, not elevating their games. For certain, recently they have been bad, especially the last four games, okay?

But if you go back, they both were. They both were great. And they were carrying the load every single night. And somewhere along the way, guess what happened, Kevin? Every team that they play against

realize that there are two players on the court to worry about. And nobody else matters. And so guess whose production went down? do they have to be better? Of course, they have to be better than what they have. You're not going to survive unless you have no chance at winning games. But for the first whatever, double-digit amount of games,

those guys did carry the load. And our regular occasion were getting the lion's share of your points and were taking care of business. And then somewhere along the way, every team you play against goes, who gives a crap about everybody else on this team? Like, if there's anything we've talked about over eight seasons, how many times have I told you? Don't play players.

Hey, hey, hey, hey, no, no, no. Don't play players that suck. They don't have any choice. They don't have any choice. There aren't any other players to play. Okay, okay, but regardless of who the supporting cast is, all I'm saying is, is it at least disappointing that Bain and Jackson have not been able to elevate their

play, even when some of those guys have been playing, regardless. Because that's where when I watched the Grizzlies, yes, guys have been out. Yes, the Stephen Adams injury was a shocker before the season. Yes, that's a bummer. Yes, Jaws out. But I watch Bain, a guy that I've been very high on. And I'm like, damn, like he just hasn't been able to tap into that higher level with defensive coverage.

He was amazing until the last four games. Amazing. What are you talking about? He's in the top 10 in the NBA and scoring. But he's had some big games. but he's also had some real stinkers too. So, like, he's had some ups and downs. I'm saying Jaron Jackson, Jr., too.

He has been brutal. And I think he is, the hardest part with him is he has taken the losing. It's beating him down. Bainit is not beating him down. He's still going 100 miles an hour. Yeah. Yeah, he never stopped. But the losing has beaten Jackson down.

Now look, they could have been fully loaded and still lost to a Minnesota team. Of course. That Minnesota team is really good and they're going to be there for long haul. And oh boy, are you going to love this, Kevin? Because I feel as if it is possible that your pathetic groveling for a Rudy Gobert jersey may end up working out for you. in the long haul. And the only reason I say that is because yesterday, yesterday while I was there at the Grizzly game,

on my way down, I got a, throw double birds at you or something? No, I got a text. And it was, and it was from my producer. And he said that he had been in the media room.

And Aaron, who does PR for the, Timberwolves said he needed me to come find him that he had a gift for me. For you? Yes. A gift for you. A gift for me. And I said, oh no.

And I thought, this dude better not hand me a frigging Rudy Gobert jersey to deliver to Kevin O'Connor. There's no way. There's no way that's about to happen to me. I can't. This can't be. And of course, I sat by Aaron through the entire playoff series a couple of years ago when the Grizzlies beat the Timberwolves. And so anyways, he reached out to Rosary, told him, hey, have him come find me.

I text him and I said, hey, I'll come find you. And I'm thinking to myself, do I really want to do this? Do I really want to go find him? because if this guy hands me a Rudy Gobert jersey, this is going to be tough. This is going to be tough for me. And that is not what he handed me. For those that are not watching

and cannot see the video of this, I'll show Kevin right now what he presented to me, and then you can describe this to the audience. That sucks. with Rudy Gauver's face plastered everywhere all over the socks and says Rudy Gaubert

the little Timberwolf's logo and just Rudy's smiling face glaring at Chris Vernon I'm going to send these to you because what am I going to do with these? Incredible. Those are great socks.

I'd wear those socks. I know you would. He presented me with a pair of Rudy Gobert's socks. So your pathetic groveling has even reaped benefits for me. I now am getting presents from the Timberwolves, including. Incredible. And, oh, how much did he love presenting me those?

Was it after the game? Thanks. No, it's at halftime. Is it halftime at the game? Anyway. That's incredible. Timberwolves are fantastic for sure. and is something to behold in person, though,

is not his biggest game. And I think they're going to be, they figured it out. They figured out how to play together. Bring him to Vegas. Bring them to Vegas for us. Come on. Come next week.

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beds that expire seven days after a seat. See terms at sportsbook.fandle.com. The other team I saw in person? probably more impressive given the circumstances. And they are the hottest team of the NBA, this side of the Orlando Magic,

of course, also winners of seven in a row. But are the Phoenix Suns. They've been incredible, dude. That Booker game winner on Sunday. That guy's getting doubled all game. Oh, my God. So I saw him Friday night. And, or Friday during the day.

It was actually Black Friday. He was even better on Friday. Kevin, last year, I remember coming on this podcast and I told you, the best game I saw in person by an offensive player was Damien Lillard. I walked out of the arena and I was like, oh my God. Like there are sometimes when you can see, you know, it's always different when it's a big guy and a perimeter player.

When you see a perimeter player at like absolute peak of powers, it is awe-inspiring. And I saw Booker go 25, 15 for 21 from the field. He shot like 75% from the field. And it had dunks, right? Like, you see Yonis or Yokinj or whatever, like maybe Yokinj does it a little more degree of difficulty. But there's a lot of guys that if they go 15 of 21,

it's not the array that you see from Booker. Not only that, he was the only guy. worry about on their team. That's when you know you've crossed into like superstar territory is when you're the guy on the top of the whiteboard. Everybody in the arena knows you're the guy, you're the one that you've got to deal with, and you still can deliver and not only to deliver, but deliver like that, he was freakishly great in the game.

and I think I read this morning that amongst players that have played over 20 minutes on average that he has the highest net rating they're outscoring their opponents by 15 points per 100 possessions and that's simply with him on the court when Devin Booker is playing his team is winning by 15 points per 100 possessions and I believe they're 8 and 1 since he came back

and 7 in a row and Durant did not play in the game. So that's why I say everybody in the arena knows you're the guy on the other team. And man, we still haven't gotten to see what it looks like when they've got him and Durant and Brad Beal. But just having Booker back has turned to them immediately great. 8 and 1, I believe since he came back, and they have now reeled off seven wins in a row. You have always been president of the Devin Booker fan club,

and this is, he is at, like, peak of powers. I don't know what kind of odds you could get on MVP for him right now, but, I mean, we're less than 15 games into the season, Kevin. I'm telling you that's the best guy I've seen in person. Well, let's take a look at those MVP odds right now. On the Fanduals sports book, he is 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 highest odds at plus 2,600. Yeah, that's a good long shot. Behind Kevin Durant, Shagildes, Alexander, and then the typical names up top, Janus Tatum, M. B. Luca Yokic.

Those feel like pretty good long shot odds. They really do, because this guy is unbelievable. He's got the best net rating in the league. Yeah. And I'm watching to play with Eric Gordon or Eric Gordon and, uh, friggin, uh, who else was out there? Grayson Allen's out there. And it's like, I mean, it's not, let's just say it's not a who's who that he was out there with.

And he just, he could be, it's, I mean, you know, Okogi and Goodwin. It's, yeah.

I mean, Booker, like, like, you know, I've always been a Booker guy. But who could have seen him turn into this level of player where he's averaging a super efficient almost 30 points per game.

He's averaging nearly 10 assists per game with low turnovers. He's creating not just simple shots, but high degree of difficulty shots for his teammates. In my article this morning on the Ringer, I published my power rankings and I had a stat in there about the amount of assists points that Booker is generating this season at 23.4, I believe, of the top of my head per game, which is like double what he's done in recent years.

24.2. He's his sister generating 24.2 points per game this season up from about 12 the last three years during the Chris Paul era. So double. It's far higher than his career high in the pre-CP3 era with the sons. He's generating shots at a high level.

He looks like a more seasoned playmaker. Because don't you remember like pre-Cris Paul when it was like, yeah, Booker's got too much on his play? he's more of a score guy they need a point guard I remember I was in Phoenix for you know I was I interviewed Frank Vogel

I'm trying to work on a son's thing I talked with Vogel preseason and I asked him like how are these guys going to sacrifice touches how much are you going to run your offense through different guys depending on the best matchup

and he's like no David Booker's our point guard he's our point card he's the guy who's going to run the show every single night and I was like hmm interesting and that's exactly what it's been ever since that Booker's the point regardless of matchup, and he's the best player on the team. And he's thrown on that headband.

And some of these games, like I said, these last couple, he hadn't even been playing with Durant. Like, you do have to think, and there's always the caveat of these guys and their health, and you have to bake that in that they may not be able to, you know, remain healthy, especially through an entire stretch run of the playoffs. But we always have to project like, what if they could? And I'm sitting there going, uh, what if when he drives in, he's whipping it out to the corner and instead of Keda Bates Diop or Grayson Allen, that's friggin' Bradley Beal. He generates the wide open shot for.

And you could see how, man, if that thing came together and they were ever, I mean, we're this far into the season. We still haven't seen them. And all I'm saying is, if they're, what are they third right now, I think, in the standings, I think they're third after the seven-game win streak. They're already third, and they haven't had those three at all, at all? Not at all. And they win games without Durant, just Booker coming back has turned them awesome.

Yeah. And that's when you know he has changed. because it's like, geez, man, you'd figure in this, in this day and age, like, they need to have two of them. They need to have, they need to have, you know, at least to rant out there with him. But I watch him do it without. He's just playing with a bunch of dudes. And just great. He's absolutely great.

So I think, look, those two teams I saw, I think Phoenix and Minnesota both, like, for sure chance at, at, West finals, both of them, have a reasonable chance. Oh, I agree. I think that their records are good right now, but I don't think that that is, you know, like maybe the team that's wedged in between them, Oklahoma City, to me, that's a little more of a long shot, because they haven't really taken their scars yet. But those two, for certain, have the opportunity to be there at the very end of the West. and you wrote your article.

You had your power rankings, and you had Phoenix very high in your power rankings. I believe you had them third, third, I think. I had the Suns number three. Yeah, you had them third. Who was the hardest one to slot for you in those power rankings? I think it were kind of the rising teams, the teams that have outperformed expectations.

Like Minnesota, like I had them at number seven. right like if you're ranking them purely off this season performance they're higher but my rankings are trying to view through the lens of championship potential right so i'm favoring some of the teams that like Denver's still number one even though they're on the best record in the west even though they're without jamal or marie right now but like the teams like that like even the sixers they're ranked a little bit lower because of the james hard and stuff they're like right now they're number six they probably should be a little bit higher than that following the hard and fiatrower at all that. So I think like teams like

OKC at 9, some of these new like Orlando at 14 like that might be low in comparison to like the NBA to MBA.com power rankings that are based purely off performance now. Mine are looking forward towards like April, May, June. So that's the tough part with

some of these rankings where some of them it's like about sustaining success over the course of time. But you know, I'd say those new teams were the toughest ones to rank above all else. Okay. And so like what do you do in your mind, like now with the teams that we know that no team, especially the young teams, are going to want to fate or the team that's the first time on the block is going to want

to see when it comes playoff time and yet are not performing at like a super high level, i.e. Golden State. You know what I mean? Like figuring out what to do with them. At what point do you not just give them benefit of the doubt and go yep like we saw it even last year right when they now they they they were not there at the very end and they got done in but it's certainly not the team you want to see if you're having your first awesome season in a long time in your Sacramento and thing went down to the very end uh that series did but it's one of those where it's like you know when you're trying to figure out who's going to be there at the end Lakers and Warriors and teams like that

that aren't performing at a super high level. How do you view that? Do you just say, I know they're going to be there at the end? I mean, like, I think, like, I put some of those teams, like the Warriors and Clippers in a clump of in the hunt, right? Like, they're still in it,

but there's some major questions about these teams. Do they have enough depth or do they have enough experience? Like some of the young teams that were in that same group, Do they, are there stars the same caliber as they were before? Is Dallas's defense good enough? Like, those were some of the teams in that group.

So I think they still belong there, despite the fact they've been very, very average at this point of the season. But like when I do the power rankings again, I think we'll do it. You know, this is what, one month, five weeks into the season. When I do it again in a, you know, a handful of weeks, you know, another five or six weeks, like those teams might be below Orlando and New Orleans and, you know, a team like the Knicks could rise up easily. because we have just a larger group of games to look at. But I think right now you kind of give some of those teams a bit of a benefit of the doubt. In-season tournament is going to be tomorrow night.

So for when most people listen to this podcast, it will be this evening on Tuesday night. Pacers in, Lakers in. That's the only thing that's locked up. If Milwaukee wins, they're in. If Sacramento wins, they're in. Houston if they win against the Mavericks

they're in and it looks like the Pelicans very well may get in if the Mavericks win that game and then it's super complicated

the scenarios and then you've got magic and sons who the sons are likely the wild card and the magic obviously have a good opportunity

but that is the one thing Kevin It's like, I'm going to like it. I'm glad when it's all said and done. But even if you are a fan that is super into your team at the end of November, just looking, I clicked on that NBA.com link and it was like, playing tournament Tuesday night. Here's the scenarios.

And, I mean, the headache I got, I'm like, this is, what in the end? Like, it is so complicated. That's the hard part to me. It's like, I don't even, I can't keep track of, I don't know how you figure that out. But I would love for it to be like, hey, the in-season tournament's going to be coming up and here are the games that are going on.

Like, I know the Thunder and the T-Wolves are going to be playing in a game. And I know that there's going to be, the heat are going to be in a game and the Knicks are going to be at a game and it's like, as soon as I clicked on that scenarios page, I'm like, oh, to hell with it. I can't keep up with this. It's like, and they're red

if this team loses and this team wins and it's like, it's complicated. But like, are you happy with the end season tournament so far? But are you happy with it so far? I like the games. But now we're like to the end to try to figure out who's going to get in and I have no idea how

Yeah, but it's not going to be complicated when we have some of the games over with, like during the daytime. During, I shouldn't say daytime, the early slot games. And then the later slot games, it'll be, you know, it could be great competition as well. But we'll see how it plays out. Like, it's really just two groups of games, the early slot and the late slot that we have to worry about. And I'm not worried about all of them at once. So that's when you drive yourself nutty. But then it's like, but then with the whole point different.

thing. Yeah, but the point differential is who has a better point differential. That's simple. Yeah, but in terms of watching the game, it's not. Like I was watching, like, I read yesterday that, like, so in that, in that Memphis Phoenix game I went to, there's a three-pointer, like, basically at the very end of the game, Booker hit this banked three.

And I read where somebody wrote that Booker's banked three might have knocked the Pelicans out of the in-season tournament because of that. I'm like, what in the world? Yeah, but like anybody who's paying attention knows the point differential matters. So like the better your point differential, that's the second tiebreaker. Head to head is the first tiebreaker.

Point differential is the second tiebreaker. So you get players and like coaches mad about it. Like, yo, you're in these games. You should know that point differential matters if you're part of these teams. That's why you have teams going to the end of the games trying to have a bigger point

differential because that's the second tiebreaker when there's only the four games that are determining your record point differential matters a lot a ton so like instead of like some of these players bitching about it oh it goes against the spirit of the game like okay get a stop get a stop those are the rules deal with it i think it's silly um how some of the complaining is happening like yeah you can disagree with the rules but they are the rules so play play to the end that's why that's why it's great to see some of those teams doing that end of the games. They want to go for it. I think that's a cool thing when all the talk has been about, oh, the player is going to care about it. They clearly care about it. At least some of them, the ones who paid attention to read the

rules and are going for those wins. So I look forward to team. Yeah, but even then, like I was looking at this, like Orlando, like they may rude the day that they lost by 20 to Brooklyn in one of these games because even though they're going to have this good record that they might lose on the point differential and it's like I can't keep up with all this. I guess just tell me when every way, who the eight teams are in the end, I guess. You know, and who's going to be playing against each other of the eight teams because it's too complicated for me. And I think I speak for the majority of fans.

It's too complicated to figure out who's playing in it and who's not. I mean, well, okay, well, we'll find out on a Tuesday night, Wednesday morning who's playing in the knockout rounds. And that's where that's where it's going to be most exciting of all in the knockout rounds. I look forward to it. When we talk about this on our Thursday night show, that's when we'll have clarity. Until then, we'll enjoy Tuesday's games. Hopefully we get some good ones. I just wish I knew going into Tuesday's games without it. I mean, we do. It's just, it's just complicated. But there's 17 things that need to happen. These teams

to make it. And that's what I'm saying. If you're focused on one team, then I understand. right but if you're trying to watch it as a fan of the league you know to me it's not it's not that complicated it's like in group B like there's two teams that I that have like a shot you know what I'm saying

like it's not like it's all if you condense it down to particular groups it's not as crazy uh well hopefully it is going to end up being hopefully it'll be fun it's going to be fun I think it will when it gets here

but it's got no juice going into it. It does for me. Some of the people I talk to. I guess if you're going to sit there with your spreadsheet and watch all the games on Tuesday night, then yes, it will. But I'm not going to watch the games with a spreadsheet. I just wake up on Wednesday morning.

I'll see who's the damn thing. I am excited. I hope some of these young fun teams do get in, though. I mean, I'd like to see if Houston got in there, Orlando got in there. That would be, Pacers are already. there so that is at least somebody that weren't necessarily counting on. And it would be interesting to see

if we could get one of these teams that very well may not be there in the end that has the opportunity. I mean, you looked last year and we got to, I went and looked up the standings on November 27th just to see how it looks

versus the way it is right now. And last year it was Boston, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Indiana, Atlanta and Philly. That was the top six in the Eastern Conference. We know Indiana fell down, Atlanta fell down. And then on the other side, it was Phoenix, Denver, Memphis, New Orleans, the Clippers, Portland, and Sack. And we know that in the end, New Orleans wasn't there, Portland wasn't there,

and the Clippers were hardly there by it's all said and done. And so it's just a reminder. It is a very, very long season because we're on November 27th at 2002 and frigging Portland was in the top six, six teams. And now they've got the goggled Scoot Henderson. A couple other things from your power rankings that you put out. Obviously, you had to write about all the sorry teams. So you had to take a deep dive into those.

And we have kind of, look, we talked about one sorry team in Memphis. earlier, some of these other, San Antonio, disgraceful, Washington, disgraceful. But even Washington got a win. And you wrote about Detroit and kind of a little bit of concern on, yeah, they've got a whole mess of things that they got to figure out. But one of them is, like, you draft all these guys and like somebody's got to emerge as the guy for the franchise, and you want one of them to hit and be face of the franchise guy.

And I think you kind of wrote about having a little concerned that is Cade Cunningham, that guy? Is he going to be that guy that you build out around if you're the Pistons? Isn't it a fair question to wonder watching them? Totally fair. I think with Cade, like, he's obviously a good player. but, you know, a number one pick. Is he the guy who can lead your franchise to the Promise Land?

Is he the person that you want to invest in? He is yet to have a single game this season shooting over 50% from the field. He remains an inefficient shooter from mid-range from three-point range. I mean, it's averaging almost five turnovers a game. I don't know, man. I know the circumstances aren't perfect there. I know there's a lack of spacing. But I'm just not so sure Cade is what Pistons fans hoped he would be in year three of his career right now.

And so if I'm Detroit, I'm looking at my situation. I'm looking at the guys on my roster. And I don't know, to me, like I think investing in like a back court of Osar Thompson and Jaden Ivy, it's probably the move. And getting a haul for Cade before his value diminishes any further. because I still think he has a ton of value league-wide. Like there'd be a lot of teams that would be happy to go out and get him. And even if he does end up panning out into a high-level player, it's very possible.

It could be one of those mutually advantageous trades in the same way that Sabone is for Halliburton was, where Sabon is for Halliburton has helped position both franchise into a very good spot. And for the Pistons, you are going to have to at some point break this up. So maybe it is better to do it now, suited than later. That's where I've been thinking about when it comes to watching Detroit.

And I like Cade. I just don't love them. Don't we have to give it more time though? Maybe. But sometimes when you give things more time then he's one year closer to that big contract extension, then even more teams who might previously have been super high on him, could sour on him

a bit. Like then, I don't know, things then at that point could get iffy. And then like, then if you're talking about even if he does work out, then you have him with Osart Thompson, two guys. different levels of concern with their jumpers, but two guys who have not been efficient shooters. So at some point,

then that could be an issue. So I just see a lot of fit issues with the pistons, and I like to remove one of them from the equation. Yeah, I just don't. I mean, they are, look, we killed them a couple weeks ago. It really is. It should be one of the fun teams in the league. It really should be.

It's sad. It is sad. It should be one of the fun teams in the league, and they couldn't be farther from, being fun. You know, you talk about guys that are drafted very highly and could be face of franchise.

Charlotte certainly looked like their guy who was face of franchise was back to being like that level. While their team is not very good and the numbers that Lavello was putting up were just freakish. I mean, it was nightly. He was putting up like these huge, huge numbers.

And then he goes down. and he gets hurt. And it looked, it looked pretty bad with him going off the court. We don't know how long he is going to be out. But certainly right before that, he was, he was one of those guys you tune in.

And man, he was having big night after big night after big night for that Charlotte team. And looked like back on the trajectory of a guy that people thought could be a huge, huge star at this league. And it was an all star. already in his young career

kind of had last year beat up by injury and obviously that team was dismal and this year while the record wasn't very good he was really getting going and looked like you know

he was putting up huge numbers he was putting up you know some really big numbers they got bridges back in the mix and and then he goes down and it's like, geez, man. They, how long would they even be able to survive?

Can they even go a week, two weeks without him, without it just getting super ugly? Obviously, an ankle strain is a lot different than, you know, some of the other injuries out there, like Luca has a thumb issue. Yeah. Like that he can play through. It's too bad.

It doesn't seem to be something that LaMello could play through, which seems like seems more serious than that. It's unfortunate. Yeah, because he had been fantastic. Dude, he's been figuring out. He's been figuring it out. They looked more like a competent team lately. Speaking of injuries, you've got McCollum coming back, it looks like, for the Pelicans who have been...

You think he should start or come off the bench? Because that Jones, Dyson Daniels combo looks amazing on the perimeter. Yeah, you know my feelings on this. I think they're... The same way we were talking about the Sixers earlier, and I've always had this feeling. You know, there's stars and there's role players and there's a balance that has to has to be achieved. And I think they've found a good balance,

especially when they've gotten Ingram and Zion playing together successfully. I wouldn't, yes, I would bring him off the bench. I'm with you. I would try to keep the chemistry that I've found that I've been playing at a high level. And I would bring him off the bench. And you've just got to even out this deal. You know, when you have him and you have Ingram and you have Zion and you have Valachunus, you only got one role player out there.

Yep. You know, and that's Herb. That's it. You got one role player this run around. And I think that you got to have those guys that are going to do the dirty work. The guys are going to set the screens. The guys that don't need the ball. They can play basketball without the ball.

and I think having guys that can play basketball without the ball next to Zion and Ingram who are best with the ball is what's best for your team and I think you've got an excuse to actually do it right because you've been playing so well I agree you got a good excuse right

you got a really good excuse and CJ could feast off bench units so oh he torts there's logic to it you think you think Willie would do it? I think he should try. Will CJ accept it? And I think he should. Because I see it's a finishing that matters.

Do you think that Draymond should regret what he did to Rudy Gobert, Kevin? No, he does not. I thought his reasoning, what would, I'm paraphrasing here, but what did he say? I'm always going to defend my teammates. That's all that it really matters. I mean, I understand his mindset. I don't think he should regret it necessarily. I think he's just going to be careful not to do something so extreme again.

which ultimately, yes, you might be defending your teammates, but it also positions your teammates for failure when you're not out there. And I wish that's what he would get better at. Do you think that I should gift my new Rudy Gobert socks to Draymond Green? I think he should. He'd even enjoyed this. I think he would. Yes.

I need to find out when they come here. What if I go and present these? And I say, Draymond, I have gotten you at Christmas. He just chokes you out. I've gotten you a Christmas gift. It is these brand new, never worn Rudy Gober socks and they are for you. Last thing that we've got to talk about before we get out of here is this old, since we last spoke, boy, oh boy, did the Internet set on fire with all the Josh Giddy story. This is this is 2023 to say the least where you have.

very little information that is given from team, player, or league, except for this. Investigation. Yeah, like they are investigating it. And all I'll say is I am confused as to if they are investigating whether he had relations with a minor. I will just say if he did, that that is a crime. And I am shocked that they are allowing him to keep on playing while investigation is still going on, right? And I say this is someone who just covered, I just covered the whole Morant situation. And yes, he was waving a gun on Instagram.

But you don't go to prison for waving a gun. It's a terrible look for the league, right? And that's why. And so it's just caution is the way to go here. And that's all I'll say is it's kind of shocking to me for like even Wander Franco. You remember like when that all hit with the with the. Yeah, that happened right away. Yeah.

And they just are like, no, no, no, no, no, sit down. Because if this, if this happened like it appears it happened, then this is a big time issue. and we can't have this guy representing our league right now. Ultimately, I think in the same place that we're in, the league might be in right now where there's just a lack of information other than some screenshots and photos that are posted where we don't know when it happened, what state it happened, how long ago it happened, anything like that. So they're probably in a process of figuring out those details,

which obviously changes the context of what the penalty will be, if it was a crime, And if it, you know, I don't know. We don't know anything, really. And that's the other day, right. Screenshots out there. It's like, we all know way too much about age of consent and all this, whatever. And it's like, what in the world?

Like, what, what planet are we on where we're now like, well, I'm like, bro, if you were, if you were going out with a high school girl, like, bro, you sit down. End of story. Sit down. Sit down, bro. We'll see how it plays up. Yeah, we will see how.

plays out, but I mean, boy, do they have a mess on their hands with that one. So far, all of O'C, giddy, you know, Dagnol, all of them are kind of like, well, we're just letting the investigation play out. their, their PR kind of strategy is just, you know, we'll let a play out, not saying anything. And to me, bro, I didn't go out with a high school girl and somebody put that up on the internet. The first thing I do is run to a freaking microphone be like, what the hell? I ain't going on with a high you're out of your mind you have

that is not the tact they take in this one I know I'm just putting myself if somebody's saying that kind of cramp about me and it's like and that's not so

I'd be running to the closest microphone screaming from the rooftops that's not so and so that's the only thing that freaks me out is like bro if you're the NBA you might want to sit this one down while your investigation is going on

because there's been so little clarity ever since it all hit and what an internet just... Yeah, I mean, look, it was only three or so days ago that it ended up breaking on social media. So, I mean, we're still in the early process of this. Everything on social media feels so much bigger. Of course, yep.

So we'll see how it plays out. Like, that was the thing. Like, I know people on social media got mad about like, OKC fans cheering him. I bet you like most of the people that were cheering didn't even know about it because this was very much on social media. Not everybody's on their phone. So, you know, I'm sure a lot of them were finding out that night about it at the game.

Like, oh, this is weird. Yeah. We will see what comes to that. We do have a big week in the NBA. And at least by the time we speak again, the whole in-season tournament will be set. And we don't have to worry about how they got there. But we'll know the teams and that will be fun. Hell yeah.

I'm excited. I'm fired up. And then you're going to be out in Vegas for the whole thing, right? I don't know. I'm not sure which days I'll be out there yet. At the least, I'll be out there for the Bill Simmons Live show on Wednesday. I'm not sure the dates I'll be in Vegas yet, though. You don't have tickets to the sphere already?

No, I haven't booked anything. I'm figuring out through my bosses what days I should be there, what days I can be there. So we'll see. All right. It's good doing for today's show. Thanks to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always. And Kevin, I'll talk to you later this week. Have a good week, Chris. See you guys.

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