The Mismatch - Can the Cavs Stay Undefeated? Plus: 'Inside the NBA' Lives, AD's Offense, the Great Barrier Thief, and More Surprises This Season.

Episode Date: November 19, 2024

Verno and Jacoby discuss some of the scores from Monday night and share their excitement about the Cavs-Celtics NBA Cup game later tonight (01:12). Can the Cavs make it 16-0 to start the season? They also discuss the continuation of ‘Inside the NBA’ next season on ESPN and their hope for the same type of show as always, even though it's on a different network (15:13). Next, the guys each share three surprises from this season so far, including Anthony Davis's brilliant offensive season, buying into the NBA Cup, and more (25:20). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Chris Vernon and David Jacoby Producer: Jessie Lopez Social: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? It's Austin Rivers here and we are back for another season of OffGuard. Me and my guy, Pasha Giggy, are hitting your podcast feeds every Monday and Thursday talking everything hoops. Austin is bringing that 11-year NBA veteran perspective and of course keeping you guys entertained throughout the season. Make sure you tap into OffGard with Austin Rivers on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to follow everything we've got going on social media. The OffGar podcast, Ringer NBA, and of course check us out on Ringer NBA's YouTube channel. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Varnan.

And joining me as he does every week from The ringer.com is Dave Jacoby. Jacobi. What's happening, Varno? Hey, we got the Emirates Cup, your favorite. NBA Cup. The Emirates NBA Cup is tonight. And teaser,

later on the show, we're going to do some of our early season surprises. And I'll explain why later, but one of my biggest surprises is how much I'm into the NBA Cup. I did not see this coming. I did not see myself getting invested in this thing at all. Well,

and now the buildup is incredible for a regular season game because we have the Cleveland Cavaliers who have been the surprise team of the season with their 15 and 0 start. I know we're not going to mention them later because we're mentioning them now. They have a 15 and 0 start and now they play the favorites, the Boston Celtics, the defending champs in the Emirates Cup with their regular season winning streak on the line. are only three other teams in NBA history that have started 15 and 0. The 94 Rockets did it. The 1516 Warriors did it. And then the team that you and I always hold on to is one of our favorites, the 1949 Washington Capitals. Now, we know that the Warriors went on to win 24 straight. And then

they lost their 25th game. I want this to keep going. I want them to have a chance. Do you remember, towards the end of that streak, it was like the Beatles coming to town. Like, it was like,

it was around the clock coverage. You could not turn on a major sports television network and not get constant warriors coverage once they got to like 20 and beyond. With Luke Walton as their coach. That was the year that Kerr had the back. surgery. And so Luke Walton started the season. Maybe the greatest job to ever get to take over. I think he had like 39 and four or something like that before Steve Kirk came back. It wasn't a great look for Kerr. It wasn't a great look for Kerr.

Luke Walton steps in. They go on a huge run. And then the Lakers are like, oh, this is the next great coach. They hire him and fire him within like three months. Well, and look, this portends very well for the Cleveland Cavaliers. That 15, 16 Warriors team, They lost the NBA finals. Of course, that was the 73 win team. This 2425 Cavaliers, it's unknown. 93-94 Rockets won the finals. The 48-49 Washington Capitals lost in the finals.

I remember that. The Dallas Mavericks in 0-203, who started 14-0, they lost in the Western Conference finals. The 57-58 Celtics started 14 and 0, lost in the NBA finals. The 96-97 Bulls started 12-0 and won the NBA finals. And then the 82-83 Seattle Supersonics started 12-0 and then lost in the first round. But like, we're going through it. All of these teams either made it to the conference finals or the NBA finals.

So we can say, hey, it's just the start. But some good trends here for what's going on with the Cavaliers so far. when you look at what NBA history has told us about teams that start this well at the beginning of the season, we've talked about them literally every show we've done for very good reason. And they deserve it. Yeah, the Atkinson diet. They're playing 10 players over 17 minutes a game. They get these big contributions from guys like Ty Jerome, who's had this unbelievable 27-year-old season where he's coming off the bench and his mega-impassion.

They've got Mowgli playing great. They've got Allen playing great. All four of their stars individually playing extremely well. And then the numbers are crazy. They're seventh in pace, which is way up from last year. And they're playing obviously more players. They lead the NBA in field goal percentage. They lead the NBA in three point percentage as a team.

They lead the NBA in two point percentage as a team. They lead the NBA an effective field goal percentage. So, I mean, all across the board, and now we get to see them against the presumptive Eastern Conference representative, the Boston Celtics tonight. And so it's been an unbelievable start for the Cavs, but I think if you are an NBA fan, this is more than what you bargain for. I mean, you can't think of something better than a team starting 15 and 0, playing in an event the NBA wants to be big

and the matchup having to be the selfish. This is playoff feel. And I think that the league has been very fortunate. A week ago, we had that Warriors Mavs game. We all know what happened there. Steph Curry explodes, Clay Thompson's return. The coverage around that all day long, got a little extra to me over the course of the day.

But today's going to be the same thing. This is like a playoff game. This is a huge game that I've basically have told to my wife, I'm like, from 7 o'clock on, I'm not, I'm not making any lunches for tomorrow. I'm not doing any dishes. I'm not even sitting down at the table and eating from 7 on. I'm out. I'm going to be in our bedroom with the door closed and the volume all the way up.

Well, this is one of those where I am going to have that game pulled up starting at 6 o'clock tonight. I have to go to the Grizzlies versus the nuggets. I shouldn't say I have to go, but I do have to go. But no word on Nicola Yokic. I'd imagine he's probably not playing. Who knows? I mean, obviously, congratulations on the birth of a second child.

But I saw that Nuggets team. This is a back-to-back against the same team. So I saw them on Sunday afternoon. Jacobi, at one point, I turned to the guy next to me, and I said, okay, we need to have the discussion of whether or not this is the greatest basketball player to ever walk the earth. because I don't care what player in the history of basketball you put on that team. There's no way.

There's no way. I mean, they are abysmal without him. And then this morning, I saw one of those screenshots going around that was like, Nicola Yokic, without Nikolaiyokic, the Nuggets have an 86 offensive rating, which would be the worst in NBA history. With him, they have 125.8, which would be the best in NBA history. And I was like, well, hold on. Now, this kind of like stands up to my argument.

Like maybe he really is. But the idea that he could drag what I watched on Sunday to like maybe 50 wins is just absolutely positively incredible. And so just know, I'm going to have one eye peering out on a live basketball game and one eye locked in on Cab Celtics tonight and the rest of the cup games that are going on. If there's no Yolkich, there won't be much of a live basketball game in front of you, even with the, even with the Grizzlies missing who they're missing. Like that team without Yolkich is absolutely not. Just the guy's leading the league in three point percentage on four attempts a game? Seriously.

He leaves the league in three point percentage. on four attempts. It's not like one and a half attempts a game. I'm four attempts a game. Shooting 54% from three. When he misses threes, I'm like shocked. I'm shocked. It's nuts what he's doing.

And congratulations on him having a kid, but I'm in the camp of have the kid and they get back to work. I've always been that guy. I've always been that guy. If everybody's healthy, if everybody's healthy, If mom's healthy, newborn's healthy, you've got children. The first week, the baby doesn't do anything.

They don't even move. If mom's okay and the kid's okay, you got a lot of money, there's nannies, there's family, you know, get to the next point. Get on the next way. I've always wondered this too. There is nothing worse, and this is for all the dads out there. The worst place in the world is the room that you are in after your wife has a child. That is the most uncomfortable,

sterilized metal bar, metal armrest couch. And so I slept there. I slept there at the, of course. And I'm like, there's no way somebody like Nicolioch does that. Like I do wonder,

I need to ask one of these guys. Like what they do. There's no way, because I can't fit on the thing. I was so intensely uncomfortable. And now it leads to everybody's irritable. And yet this is this amazing moment in your life. And then the nurses are, you know, they're shuttling the baby back and forth, swaddled from when they're getting taken care of to back to the room. And then you get the moments with them and whatever.

but all the while you're on this like plastic couch with metal armrest. And I know there's no special, like I wonder what they do. There must be, I bet you can buy your way into some sort of luxury hospital situation. I don't know if you can. I think you can. I think the, the, the, the, the Okitch family's birthday experience is going to be a little different than the, the Vernon and Jacoby family birthday experience, I can assume. But it is extremely uncomfortable.

And with my twins, they were premature. So it was terrifying. The doctor was like, they can't breathe. They can't eat, but don't worry, it's going to be fine. And they go to somewhere called the NICU, right? Yeah. And you're like, and they're tied up to all these wires and everything. Long story short, they're fine, right?

But you also get this two weeks of them being in the NICU where you have babies, but you don't really have to take care of them. Just pop in like once a day for a half an hour and like visit. And then you go back to your regular life. It's actually kind of nice. It's terrifying, but it's kind of nice. And I do need to at least broach the subject that you have always had a job. You pursued your passion, as did I, and you have a job that generally you love to do and you love to go to.

Oh, for the guy out there that does not like his job, take as much time as they will possibly let you have off. Like, for us, it's easy to go back to work. It's better to go back to work. I've always wondered. Like, if you got a job you hate, like, yeah, then just take as much time as you get. If anyone's ever just said they had a kid when they didn't really have a kid just to get three months off, like, no one never checks. No one ever checks. You know what I mean?

No one's like, show me the baby. It's like, sure, you just believe that someone has a kid at the paternity time. He'll be back to work soon, though. He'll be back to work. I've always been the camp of like, especially if it's like a playoff thing, like, the baby's going to be fine. You're going to have long, long life with lots of interaction and time with that baby. And it does not even remember this now, so we might as well play in game four. That's how I've always felt that way.

I've always felt that way. Assuming help, assuming help on everybody involved, of course. All right, let's get to the rest of the stuff. Just a couple quick hits on stuff that had happened on Monday night. Damien Lillard hit a game winner. And then they got lucky as all get out when Fred Van Vleet threw it over Shengun's head. He would have had an easy layup. And that would have been a crushing defeat for.

for the Milwaukee Bucks at the hands of the Houston Rockets. That went on last night. I'll get to the Bucks a little bit later. Jimmy and the Heat first, like, monster Jimmy Butler. I'm the best player on the floor game. And, man, he is just going to have this. He's going to hold it against the Sixers forever. Like, he really is going to hold.

He's probably not even healthy. He's like, I'm playing. I'll miss the next one. And look, the Sixers were up big in that game. And then a wave hit and the Heat never looked back and just absolutely trucked the Sixers, dropping them to a pathetic, what, 2 and 11 now? Good grief. It's awful.

I was watching the game and I kind of turned my attention away from it because the Sixers were up by so much. I was really just checking in on Embedd and Embeddeed is not healthy. There's some discussion about whether or not he would play. There's an illness that he's dealing with. but watching him in this current state, I'm not going to judge his play based on him sort of playing himself back into playing shape, because he is not there.

Like he got a couple buckets, but he looked so, he looked like someone who had an illness. Like he looked like, you ever had like a Benadryl and you forget how tired it makes you? It looked like someone gave him like three Benadrills and we're like, now go play NBA basketball. Every shot that he missed was short.

Every single one was short. Every one. Tomorrow night's the night I'm supposed to see him in person. If you were putting bets on it, what are the chances I see him play tomorrow night? They have two nights off or one night off? I think low. I think he'll play. I think he'll play.

I really think that they've decided that even though he's not 100%, the only way to get him to 100% is to sort of go through this awkward phase of the season where he's not, he's not in shape, he's not strong, he's not quick, he has no burst. It's just, even like, layups. He was not exactly like a graceful athletic gazelle running up and down the court before all of this, but everything just seems so labored. Even like layups to go around somebody, it just seems slow. And he just seems like everything is so hard for him on the basketball court. Like I legitimately felt bad for him last night watching that game. All right.

Let's get to one of the big stories that has taken place since we last spoke, which is our beloved inside the NBA, which I don't think anybody thought would be done forever. we knew it was going to be the last year on TNT, but we do have some clarity on that show going forward. You knew there was going to be a bunch of TV partners involved, so maybe it gets leased out and it ends up on NBC. Maybe it ends up on Amazon. Maybe it ends up on ESPN.

Who knows, with the new billions of dollars deal that the NBA has signed for its broadcast partners. We knew it was probably going to end up somewhere. well, we did get some clarity. Through our buddy Bill Simmons, who did not get the credit he deserved on this story everywhere, because he broke this. Anyways, inside the NBA is going to feature Ernie Johnson,

Charles Barkley, Kenny Smith, and Shaquille O'Neill. It's going to be on ESPN and ABC starting next season with a partnership with TNT Sports and the NBA. Except when the show goes on the road, TNT Sports will continue to independently produce. inside the NBA from its Atlanta-based studios over the term of the agreement, and all those guys are going to remain with the show. It sounds like it is going to be for high-profile events.

NBA finals on ABC, conference finals, NBA playoffs, all the ABC games that are after January 1st, Christmas Day, opening week, the final week of the season, and then other marquee events throughout the year. And so, look, you had spent over 20 years in the TV business. You have a much different perspective on this than I could. Tell me what you thought. When you saw the way this is going to be set up,

when you saw the way this is going to be licensed. I put myself in the sort of the shoes of the talent, right? And they're like, so we work with the same people. We go to the same studio. we only do the big games and we likely get paid more, sure, sign me up. And I think one thing that's interesting in, you know, working with Bill and working with Jaylen for as long as I did,

we've had a lot of discussions about how NBA countdown works and the difference between countdown and inside the NBA. And one of the main differences, not to get two in the weeds, is they want to get that big number, that big lead in number to SportsCenter. So SportsCenter gets the big audience. So that's why that you don't get the same sort of post-game

game comments from an NBA countdown crew on ESPN the way that you do on T&T. And you'll remember when you watch inside the NBA, after the games are over, they get to kind of just chill and just chat, a very sort of like free flowing, just sort of like chat for about 20 minutes, which is where a lot of the viral stuff happens, which is where a lot of sort of the more humorous kind of like strange things happen later after the games and they're looking back at the game. And I wonder if they're going to have the opportunity to do that on ESPN and ABC. or will ESPN and ABC

continually try to kick it to SportsC to get that big number for SportsCenter because it's not, people always just said like, well, the talent's not as good at ESPN, which is totally fine. That's a totally fine thing to say, which there is truth to, but it's also just the structure of the show.

There's just a lot more time for spontaneous conversation and interaction and humor on the TNT format than there is on ESPN and ABC. And I hope they'll allow for this. same sort of room and freedom on ESPN ABC that they are allowed when they're on TNT. And that's very fascinating about the postgame thing and about how it's all to serve

SportsCenter. And that is the brilliance of where they are. Yeah, I never thought about it that way. And the other thing is, it's always, you know, their show breathes. Yeah. They allow them to, it doesn't have to be, we're going to this, we're going to this, we're going to this, we're going to this. we're going to this, we're going to this. Or they'll say like, hey, we're going to get Bob Myers comments on the Warriors

coming up at halftime. And then it's like 30 seconds. It'll be like, Bob, what do you think about the Warriors in the first half? He's like, well, they're going to have to play better defense. They want to win this game. Okay, now we're going to the break. And it's like, wait, what? There's just not a lot of time.

And this has been chronicled by the ringer and Brian Curtis and others. There's just not a lot of time to do things, to be free, to be flowing, to make fun of each other, to show Photoshop. ops. There isn't just there isn't the time on screen in those breaks during half time and pregame. But I'll be very curious to see if they just sort of like hand over the keys to T&T. And I wonder what they do post game. I'd love to see them just adopt the T&T format. It's fascinating because I'm going to bet they do.

And I say this because and I'm interested in what your thoughts are on this. They have let McAfee do it. Like you watch McAfee and it doesn't go to breaks. he's not taking a bunch of break they let that show be that show like they take the show and then they let it be that show like that was the deal

they're not he's not doing five to seven minute quick segments sponsor elements yeah all that yeah yeah yeah they've not reformatted yet and they've kind of weaved in the right they've weaved in the sponsor stuff right so they'll have one of his buddies wearing the pizza hut

stuff or whatever whatever the course you know however they're weaving in the ads, but they're not breaking all the time. They pretty much let that show just be that show. And so I do wonder if that kind of informs this. Also, they kind of let the Mannings do it too a little bit more on what they do with the Manning cast and let it just be what it is. So I do wonder what your thoughts on this, on them moving more into the,

we'll let you produce it. We'll license out your show. We'll let it be on our airwaves. But we're going to get out of your hair and we're going to let you do what you do. I think they will do something like that. Just to put a button on this is one of the ways it really tells you how that show is done in the ethos of that show and the soul of that show is someone who's working with them asked Ernie, like what he needed in the prompter is the end of the second quarter. He's like, Ernie, the soul was like, what do you need me to put in the prompter for halftime? and he's like, just put the score of the game in there.

I'll take it. You know what I mean? He's like, just put the score of the game. Just have the score of the game. I'll handle everything else. It's like there's no like, and then we kick to this and then we kick to that. Because we've all worked on shows where it's like very structured, very formatted, guy in your ear saying move on, move on, move on.

It's like, I feel like that show, they've got such a rhythm over time and such chemistry. He's like, just tell me who's ahead. Just let me make sure I know I know who's ahead in the game. Yeah, sometimes I wonder if they even have earpieces in. It would not surprise me. They don't even wear earpieces, right? No. Because he is, I mean, obviously,

Ernie Johnson is an absolute master at pulling that, at making it all go and running that show and making sure that they're doing everything they're supposed to do. So anyways, it's good. I'm glad that it's going there. And I'm glad that it's going to be a part of our lives going forward. And we don't have to do this whole year of, we can't lose this show,

what's going to happen to this show? Right. And there's also a part sort of at the end of the Eastern or Western Conference finals where they would say goodbye. You know what I mean? And it was like, oh, oh, we're not going to see those guys anymore,

but we've got the biggest games of the year coming up. And I think now we won't have to say goodbye until the confetti is falling from the arena. The mismatch is presented by Fanduel. If you're in need of a midweek boost, Fanduel, America's number one sportsbook, has you covered with the NBA hump day Parlay profit boost. Here's how it works.

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Restrictions apply, including any token expiration. See terms at sportsbook.fandul.com. Have a gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-help.com. Has been a fun start to the NBA season. As we mentioned, there's going to be a massive game going. on tonight. Many of you may listen to this podcast after that game has already taken place. But we want to take a moment to take a step back and talk about some things that have surprised us

thus far this season. All right, we got three each. You want to start or you want me to? You start, buddy. All right. I am starting with somebody that deserves to be talked about on this podcast that has not been yet except for in passing. You and I are massive fans. of defensive players within the NBA and many times respect their impact on the court. My favorite player probably ever was my beloved Tony Allen, who I loved what he brought to the table.

I constantly fought for him getting more respect and would constantly say, if a guy was doing this on the offensive end, people would be going crazy, but what is the value of a guy that holds a guy that averages 28 to 12 and shoots inefficiently every night, right? Do I have to add that to his points per game for you to care?

And now, never, especially with the way the NBA has played now, never did I think that a defensive player on the perimeter would take the league by storm narrative-wise, and yet it has taken place. And because you have to do something so wildly spectacular in order to gain said attention, but it's happened. Dyson Daniels, who is 21 years old,

who is probably the bane of the Pelicans' existence at this point because of all the attention he was getting, had 29 steals in five games. No player in the NBA had 27, more than 27. He had it in a five-game span. He is averaging 3.7 steals per game. Kings are down one, six seconds, five. Fox gets in.

Fox trying to win it. He has 88 deflections, which is 35 more than the second-place player. Say that again. 88 deflections, which is 35 more than the second place player. And get this, he is on pace for over 500 deflections. Jacoby, the NBA record for deflections in a season, is 302. He is on pace so far this season for over. 500 and ESPN Australia is calling him the Great Barrier Thief.

I like it. I like it. It's amazing. The Great Barrier Thief is amazing. For those unfamiliar, he is Australian. Yes. The Great Barrier Thief, who is averaging 3.7 steals per game, playing for the Atlanta Hawks, who are not a good defensive team, by the way.

Whoa. And yet you have this. force of nature that is pulling off these statistical defensive performances that make him absolutely impossible to ignore. There are certain defensive players that the greatest sort of physical example of how good they are defensively is the body language of the people that they're covering. You know, like famously when Kauai checked in during the finals, and you could see LeBron react to that.

And I was watching the Hawks Celtics Emirates NBA Cup game last week, and you could tell the Celtics were running certain plays, certain actions where the first pass to the wing to Tatum was sort of like a gimmy, right? And then they would start the action. And Daniels would just be like, no, you're not getting that in. Or they would run them off a screen, and he would just be like, nope, I'm going to put my shoulder in there. I'm going to squeeze over that screen.

I'm not going to let you do things. And he must be the most frustrating person to have cover you in the NBA. He just, he ruins your plans. He's got, he's bad weather. He ruins your plans. And the steals and the deflections and those numbers are out of control. But it's the eye test stuff where you can just see teams are trying to run very basic actions to start their offense. And Dyson Daniels does not allow it to happen.

And then the guy with the ball has to look back over to the coach and be like, well, what do we do now? out, coach, because plan A ain't working out. And is he going to be able to pull this off to where the honeymoon remains, where a guy is so impactful defensively, so impactful defensively, that it doesn't matter that he can't shoot? We went through a whole span where it was like, okay, yeah, we know what this guy brings to the table,

but they're not going to respect him on the offensive end. And so, meanwhile, these guys are, you know, my thing was always, because look, I'm a pro with this because I spent years defending Allen. And I was like, look, his field goal percentage, his field goal percentage is, you know, high 40, 50%. So if he shoots it, half of the time it goes in, I understand, right, that you're having to put him in the dunker spot sometimes. I understand that he's not stretching out the offense to where you're able to, you know, because they're not going to respect him, it makes it harder on everybody else. But in terms of can he bring enough offensively by doing all the other stuff, figure out a way to be effective without, because there's such a premium on.

If you can't shoot, you can't play. And so you have to be so amazing defensively to offset it. And trust me when I tell you, there will inevitably come a time where people are, we'll start talking about what he can't do. Of course. But for right now, he is so dominant doing what he does do. And these numbers are freakish, freakish. Like the word gets out, hey, man, don't throw lazy passes around this guy.

Or watch your handle with you around this guy. And so for him to pull off 29 steals in five games, it's just, that's outrageous. I do wonder if opponents will adjust. I, you know, that's one thing I was thinking about just like when you're talking about, well, if you extrapolate this out for the rest of the season, I don't think he's going to have the opportunity to perform at this level defensively because it's kind of like a really good cornerback in the NFL. It's like, oh, we're not going to throw to that side.

You know what I mean? And I feel like he's sort of taking the league by surprise in the last, say, two or three weeks. But I think over time with scouting and recognition and all of the all of the sort of discussion about him and his defense, that he won't have the opportunity to. be as impactful. But what he can do is say, I'm going to cover their best wing.

And if you guys aren't going to put him into the action, and that's good for our team. You know, I can see that happening. And look, sometimes that you have guys like this that can take the league by store. He's got to be able to, look, that three point percentage goes up and he started able to knock that down at a, just a reasonable rate,

that Katie bar the door. And you've got one of these, like, all-time bad trades. I mean, because he's 21. He's 21. That's what I was about to say. He's 21 years old. I mean, 21 years old.

Oh, and you can improve shooting, you know? Yes. Look, Matisse Thibel, notwithstanding. You can't, but because you remember, he was the wave for a minute, but then it was like, okay. Like, yeah, he might be amazing defensively, but, and this kid is better offensively already, but, and he's had some big nights.

Sometimes you see it's like 20, points, but you're like, ah, it wasn't, it wasn't a very impressive 24 points. Right. You know, it's like, yeah, if you look at the box score, it's good, but like, he's not getting his own bucket. He's not knocking down threes. He's not pulling up from mid-range or, you know, he's, he's getting sort of baskets that were created for him, but it's fine.

And a lot of run-outs and a lot of cuts. Yeah. Because you're deflecting passes. For sure. You know what I mean? Which creating transition offense for the Hawks, which have a bunch of guys that can finish. But a perimeter defensive player commanding our attention and the NBA's collective attention by November was not something I had. So that obviously, that applies as a surprise.

The whole Pelican side of it, Chris, is, needs to be discussed because you guys had this guy on your team. And he didn't get any burn. I remember when they drafted him. I was excited. I was like, oh, that's a nice piece for them to add. And he didn't get any run. And they had some good options. We all know who they have there, where they're all hurt.

now, but I understand, but he was not the centerpiece of this trade. This was not a DeJonte Murray for Dyson Daniels trade. This was DeJante Murray for two picks and we'll also take Nance and Daniels. That's what it was. Interesting. One of my surprises, it shouldn't be that surprising, but it is. It's how consistent and excellent Anthony Davis has been on both sides of the floor. And I would say the first adjective consistent is the one that is most surprising to me. Because there was just kind of these nights where he either has it or doesn't, or he's aggressive or he's passive. And the way that they are now using him as the offensive hub and the way they're now making a priority to get him in spots to score is been really, really surprising in how effective

it has been. Remember, they didn't make any big changes on the roster. They really didn't. And they can't. And they were not a good basketball team last year. They got swept out of the first round. And right now, they're sitting up there in the, you know,

they're sitting up there in the standings. And LeBron's been great. Anthony Davis has had eight 30 plus games. Think about that. The idea that this could be, I don't think that there were many people outside of maybe Davis himself that thought,

The best of Anthony Davis could be ahead of us. Exactly. Exactly. And they're fourth in offense. And name a player on that team that can get you a stop. A player on the roster. They can get you a stop. So they've got perimeter players just driving past their man.

And Anthony Davis is there like, I got this. Don't worry about it. That's why their transition defense is so abysmal. Because it's like he can't get back all. the way. No, because he's also taking all the shots. If you get them in transition, you're scoring. But if they're set up, he wrecks it for you.

Yes. Yeah. And I really think, I've been surprised by this. Because I remember, God, we were at Grant Landis. It must have been like 2012, 2012, 2013, when Anthony Davis sort of had a leap year. You know, he already been a league. He'd been good. But he had a true leap year.

And then since then, you know, we won a championship. he sort of became this sort of second field to LeBron. And I never thought that he would reemerge as a centerpiece of a contending team. I think, you know, I think Collin Lake is a contender is a bit of a stretch at the moment. But they're in fourth place in the West. So that's contention. Look, if he stays healthy and he sees playing at this level, they're absolutely a contender. Yeah.

Because you've got one of the best. I mean, he's at this level, what he's playing at right now, he's one of the best five players in the league without question i didn't see that come no i didn't see that come and the consistency to have eight games of over 30 points out of 11 or 12 it's wild he's only missed he's only missed one game shooting 40 percent 43 percent from three it's great he's looked fantastic maybe we didn't see the best of anthony davis being ahead of him um a guy that we probably did think the best was ahead of him but i certainly did not expect him to bust back onto the scene in the manner that he has is Lamello Ball.

The Mello Ball is averaging almost 30 points a game, if you haven't noticed yet. He, you, you look at the, you look at the leading scores of the NBA, Yonis is there at the top. And then you've got, yeah, and then you got AD, and then you got Tatum. And Lamello Ball. Lamello ball is tied for third in scoring in the NBA. All the while, he is second in the NBA and threes made per game. Behind another surprise, by the way, Anthony Edwards, if you would have told me at any point in the season,

the two guys that will be making the most threes in the NBA per game are Anthony Edwards and Lavello ball? What? Look, this new coach is obviously given him free reign. We've mentioned him a couple of different times. The other thing, and this was on full display with that Hornets Bucks game that took place since we last spoke. When the announcer for the Hornets, who I absolutely love, yells

he tripped over his Pumas it's nice to have a superstar it's nice to have a superstar it's nice to have a superstar I'm like how in the world like this this guy has been out of sight out of mind for a year and a half

we haven't even we haven't even thought about La Mello he's just been out of sight out of mind and now he's top three to five in the league in scoring. He's doing something that is on your radar, literally every night. And he's already getting like bona fide superstar calls.

There's no way he tripped. He must have been bumped. And that is a win instead of a loss, possibly, because of that gravity, that there's no way that he just fell. I would have, the rest are good. And I watched that game, and I was like,

let me see this replay. I'm sure that he tripped over Janice's feet. And that is why he got the call. I was positive of it. And then you see the replay, and you're like, wait a second, he just fell over? He just fell over on his own.

And then I'm like, why can't we challenge that, review that or whatever. Like, I was, I was shocked that they were out of challenges. God. I mean, the system is broken. If that, if that happens and they can't call it in like they do in the NFL in the last two minutes, then the system is broken because that can't happen like that.

I was shocked, but I had the biggest takeaway that you had too. The announcer saying, it's nice to have a superstar. And then I looked and I was like, am I listened to the Bucks announcer? Like, no, that's the Hornets announcer. Well, and here's the thing. We have talked about for the last couple of years, when you are listing off the best players in the NBA, and we've talked about it.

Maybe it's an issue where it's like, there's Luca Donchitz and there's Nicoliochich and there's Joelle Lembid. And it's like, where are we getting to? And then Tatum, who doesn't exactly appeal to the masses. and it's like, who's going to take this, you know, by the horns? Is it going to be, you know, Anthony Edwards started that ascension last year? Is it going to be because we kind of, you know, out of sight, out of mind on Lamello Paul, out of sight out of mind on Zion, out of sight, out of mind on John Morant.

And it's like, okay, who's going to be that guy that starts to, you know, capture the imagination of everyone? This kid popped back up and starts reminding everything. everybody, but this ascension, I mean, he's, like I said, he's averaging 30 points. Like, if you watch him, it's a, it's, he's becoming box office again. It's like, I, my kid, I guarantee you, my kid is going to want to go to the Charlotte game this year. Yep. And do you know what's interesting?

I was talking to somebody who's in the sneaker business. And they're like, do you know who's selling sneakers? Le Mello ball? I was like, really? They're like, those Pumas, those Pumas did really well. And then I was like, that's interesting. And then he did he follow it up with, which I found even more interesting? He's like, huge hit internationally.

And he, it's one of those things where you can see the appeal, the style, the flare. You know, and we're a little older, so it doesn't really hit the same for us. But I can see the appeal. He plays cool. He looks cool. He's tall. He's different. He's young.

He wears crazy clothes. Like, I was, I was pretty surprised that he was such a draw that he could, get shoes out. You know what I mean? Especially internationally, which is obviously the game is growing. I found that to be a really interesting data point. And it makes a lot of sense. It tracks because he's so fun to watch.

It reminds me a little bit of like Blake Griffin in like 2011 when Twitter first started having videos. And it seemed like every single day, Blake Griffin did something that would take over your feed right around nighttime in the East Coast. And Lamello Ball is doing things like that now. well and unfortunately he hit our feed because of his verbal indiscretions after the game and man oh man did the NBA make an example out of that yeah I think that's I think it's fair a hundred grand it's fair I've I've I've I've I've I've scrubbed that sort of talk for my

vocabulary years ago you know what I mean had to have a real conversation with myself Jalen Rose actually helped me do that too he was just like we we got to stop doing this that was years ago and I encourage others to do the same That's a good one. So this one is the biggest surprise for me so far this evening. And I already said it earlier. I've always been naturally skeptical about the NBA Cup or the IST. I'm in.

I'm in this year. They've won you over. I'm in. That Mabbs Warriors game, tonight's Celtics Cavs game. And just like the last Friday, I kind of forgot that they were cup games. I was like, oh, I've got to lock in.

Cup, games. If they care, we care. Exactly. And I feel like they care. And I like the different look. I really think that it has had the desired effect of adding a little extra competitiveness, a little extra inf and adding a little extra fan interest this part of the season.

When football is in full swing and, you know, the NBA doesn't really start until Christmas. And players like Joel Embed are kind of playing themselves back up. Everybody got injured. It's been kind of a drag year so far. far, but this NBA cup has sucked me all the way in, and I'm on board. I'm on board. I looked at the Vegas dates. I was like, I might have to go.

That's where I'm at. I liked it last year. And now, look, the good thing is it's starting to, it's starting to garner a little more interest. People are talking about it in a way that we all had this. It was just weird last year. So now that we went through it one year, and now it's got a name, itself and now we kind of understand, you know, the way it works and the way it matters and

why these teams, like, I'll give you an example. On Friday night, Memphis played against Golden State and Golden State's running them out. Okay. And next thing you know, the last like seven, eight minutes of the game, you've got like this super lineup for Memphis that goes in the game. And I'm like, well, this is different. This is the complete opposite of the white flag.

And next thing you know, if you go and anybody woke up the next day, they lost the game by five. I mean, they could have lost the game by, I don't know how many, a lot more than five. But they go on this crazy run, like whatever it was, to end the game. And next thing you know, it's like, oh, wait, they're playing out point differential. Yep. because if they're tied at the end, they're going to look back and this is really going to matter. I'm looking at the Celtics.

I'm like, the Celtics lost to the Hawks, right? And they got the Cavs tonight. They could be 0.2. You're out. You're out. The champs are out.

They lose tonight. They're out. That's it. It's over. Bye. It's interesting. I'm very, I'm involved.

I have to say, I've been skeptical of this idea. I've been skeptical of the ex-executive. I personally don't have trouble following the format, I guess, because I like soccer tournaments. You know, just basically like a World Cup format, you know, but I'm in. I'm in. They've got me. Hook line and sink.

And I'm surprised. I do think that there is, I do think it's totally fair to think about, okay, now we all like this. How do we consolidate this to where it's all at one point, just, this is all part of the cup, as it were. Because that is the hard part. It's like, you get all, you know, we're like, oh, cup games, different courts, cool jerseys, all this stuff. And then we'll fast forward to tomorrow night. And it'll be like, wait, what?

So this is just a regular ass game? Yeah. Like the Tuesday, Friday thing, they still got to figure that out, right, to where it's just every once in a while these things matter more. Let me pitch you an idea. All right. You know how they use the G League sort of as like a test kitchen for certain rules or target scores or things of that nature? I think they should do the same with Cup games.

I wouldn't mind. You know what? Cup games got a new court. Three point line. It's, you know, now we've extended it past the corners. I will say if you look,

the G league does this weird thing where it's like their season begins and they are playing like this whole tournament and then we'll get to later in the year and they'll go and play out a tournament at the end of like in the in the winter and then they all the teams like the G league showcase right yeah you have to make the showcase and they'll put and then they'll come back and then it's like no no their season starts everybody's like zero and zero Zero. Weird. And so I actually don't hate that, though.

What if we just made the whole first part of the season? I don't know how you pull that off. The cup? Yeah. Right? Where it's all leading into basically Christmas. It's all part of this different thing that you're doing leading into Christmas. Again, there's a ton of details to be worked out.

I'm just saying the fact that they've already won you over is a good side. came into this thing skeptical. You were. You know? And I'm sold. And these games have been great. And tonight's game, the Celtics Cav game, I just couldn't be more excited about. I could not be more excited about this.

Yeah. Anything that increases the stakes of regular season games. You've got an undefeated Cavs team. That's right. It's in Boston, going to Boston. Boston needing the win to stay, to keep their cups, hopes alive. Yeah. It's great.

I'm on board. It's going to have a great atmosphere tonight. nationally televised be Greek king my last surprise and this is you know I use the first two

as positives with Dyson Daniels and La Mello Ball and this one was fresh on my mind because of watching it last night the bucks so

you could make a lot of excuses for what took place last year you know they started off with this good record but they weren't as good as their record said they were

but then they you know then the Doc Rivers thing you know, it's hard to take over midseason. And then the honest got hurt. And then Dame got hurt. So you can just write the whole thing off. But now it was like, okay, you're going to have Doc Rivers starting a training camp. And you're going to have a Damien Liller, who I've been watching Instagram videos of him working out with David Goggins.

And he is ready to, and he was injured, right? He was injured out of shape, miserable in Milwaukee, all of those different things that. everybody was saying last year. So, hey, fast forward to this year. And it's like, okay, they brought back their guys, you know, Brooke Lopez was supposed to be on another team. And so they kind of ran it back with some of the guys that they've had. So they've got, you know, a lot of, we've got a lot of reps together.

Yeah, a lot of continuity. And now it's a new season with the new coach and in shape. been motivated Damien Lillard. And then a couple of weeks ago, I told you I saw them in person and I said, this is, this is a problem. This is a problem. And it's not just the personnel thing. Watch the way they interact.

Like I just, I don't like it. This is bad vibes. The way they interact with each other, the way they interact with the coach. I just don't. And then, Derram, watching it last night, which should have been this like, oh, wow, they just pulled off this win. And it all felt so I, I'm watching and me and my son had the game on. And I said, oh, dame time?

And then of course it was. And you're so used to that moment where it's like him hitting his wrist and him like, you know, bowing up or whatever. And he, you can go back and watch it. He makes that layup and he just like kind of walks over to the sideline, like this bonded. And then at the end of the game, Janus just messes up a switch

like the most unbelievable mess up Shen Goon is standing under the basket that was a rocket's loss not a buck's win to me and it all like Janice is like pumping his fist and whatever but like you look at the rest of them I'm like I don't know if there's just something off

and I this is how I feel they're going to end up this is my prediction They're going to end up moving Lillard somewhere this year. They're going to end up moving Lillard somewhere this year. This is my prediction. They're going to end up moving Lillard somewhere this year. And then we're going to get the reporter notebook unload about just how miserable it's been for the last year and a half. He never wanted to be there.

They talked about how did you guys talk and did you guys interact over the summer? And it's like, he never wanted to get really on the same. page with the honest. Like I still don't think he ever wants to be there. And I just, I hate the vibes. I hate the vibes. Think of the number one and number 12 score in the entire NBA right now. And it's not just about personnel and about them getting older and all this other stuff and doc, whatever.

Middleton. If you watch them, it just does. It's off, man. It is off. And I keep watching them thinking, because I know you had said, like, hey, their schedule gets a lot easier. But, I mean, even when they win these games, they're in that, like, the reason they got beat on a bad call against Charlotte is because they're in a big talk game with Charlotte. The reason they win last night, yeah. It is like, no.

And the Rockets just, you know, and that was a weird deal too. You know, look, there's no excuses of Van Belit should have thrown it. But if you watch the end of that game, that was the weirdest deal. I don't remember seeing this where they gave Van Vleet the ball out of bounds, which I'm not a huge fan of having the most diminutive guy on the roster throw the ball in, but that's neither here to there. But they had to like clear the way of all the fans. It was like there was this.

huge like circle of fans around van bleed they had to like get people out of their seats and move them so that van bleed had room to throw the ball in and i'm like how that how's that work there's just weird it look if you see the screenshot it looks like 25 people are defending him right because he's got like 10 people semi-circled around him and then the impounder uh you know the impound defender. And so anyways, the, the buck's just being, I am convinced that this is just not going to get right. And I am just stunned by this.

I really thought it was going to work. I really thought that, and I kept making excuses for it. Like, hey, you got these two guys. What could be more devastating than having Damien Lillard and Janice Ante Coupo on the same team? Oh, when they traded for Dame, one thing I think it's important when you do this job is to admit when you were wrong. When they traded for Dame,

I was like, if you have a Dame Lillard, Yon San Jacoompo, pick and roll, then that's all you need. That is all you need. And you don't even see it. I know they'll be challenged defensively. I get that, right? Dame has never been a great defender, right?

But if you have a Dame Lillard, Yonisantan Tentacompo, pick and roll, with Chris Middleton waiting on the week's side for like a second action, how could that not be dominant? How could it possibly not be dominant? Janice is dominant individually by himself with little help from, you know, Holiday and Middleton. Dame has been absolutely dominant by himself, dragging a Portland team with, you know,

with varied rosters throughout the years into the playoffs, one time deep into the playoffs, put those two players on the same team. This is going to be a dominant offense, and it has not happened. I have not seen 12 great pick and roll possessions from Dame and Janus. I have not seen it. And more importantly than any of that, to me, is just the joylessness of it all. Yeah. It's like their wins or escapes.

But then I blamed Adrian Griffin. And then I blamed off-court things that were happening with Dame. And then I told myself, well, this year is going to be different. Even without Chris Middleson, it's going to be different. Doc is going to implement his whole system. Dame has been in Milwaukee for a year. He's adjusted. He's got his off court stuff behind him.

This is going to be the year where they really take off it. And it has been the opposite. And I think that you make a great point about the vibes. I watch the books and wonder if Damien Lillard has unpacked. Or packed again. No, I think his stuff, a lot of it still may be in boxes. And he just goes home and sits and like, all right, I'm not even going to unpack this stuff. Yeah.

He has Adidas or Nike send him some sweat suits. He orders food in. Doesn't go out at all. And he's just waiting for a trade from his agent. It has that feel. And again, winning, winning solves everything, you know. But losing also can compound the bad vibes. He didn't even give me the dame time last night.

Huh. He didn't even, he didn't even hit the watch. That was an impressive layup, too. He didn't even hit the watch. guys. And I'm like, what's happened to this guy? He's not even hitting the watch anymore. Interesting. Well, here's one thing I'm not doing if I'm the bucks. I'm not trading either of those guys. Because you're not, you're going to get 12 cents on the dollar for Dame. And I'm not trading Janice and Dentecoupo. I'm sorry. I'm not trading Yonis and we just signed him to an extension.

We'll have meeting after meeting after meeting with him and we can work it out. We can work it out. All right. My final surprise. And I'll be brief with this one because I celebrated them in the last pod. I can't believe what's happening with the magic in Franz Wagner. Oh, wow. Without Bencaro. I just, they're on a six-game win streak. I know. Albeit against teams that they should beat, right?

They're not beating the best teams in the Western and Eastern Conference, but they're winning games. And I thought, is Simmons going to say that the Ewing theory committee is about to have a meeting? I don't think so. I don't think Pallo Ben-Caro and Patrick Derry. Is there a phone call? No, no, no.

Is there a text or an email? Like, hey, guys, just be on alert. No, this is a little bit more like Alpern Sengoon going down last year and the rocket's going on a run. It's just more coincidental than it is sort of, you know, actually impactful. But Wagner's been so good during this street. He's got 27, 23. He's on a four-game streak of 32, 29, 31, and 32.

Unbelievable. Not efficient, okay? Not efficient. And, you know, he's still. But he's the leading shot taker and he's the guy they're playing through every night. Yes. And he's getting those numbers without hitting tons of threes. You know what I mean?

He's only shooting 36% from three, but it's a weird mix. Like, he used to just be like a slash, a slashy guy. But like, he was posting up Grayson Allen last night. You know what I mean? Hitting weird little floaters in front of the defense. Like he's kind of got his game to this nice little like mix of I will shoot open threes if you go under the screen. I'll take you. and it'll go in 36% of time,

which is enough to keep you honest. And he used to just try to slash and get to the rim or slashing kick. But he's really figured out this middle ground floater spot, like weird pull-up jumper that's half a floater from 12 feet. And he's added this, I wouldn't call it mid-range, but this right before the help defender gets there

to keep you from getting to the rim, he's figured out a counter for that, which is why I think that he's playing so well, because he's going to have, he's going to be left open for three. You know what I mean? People are going to go under screens on him, and I think that he's figured out a way to work around that.

By hitting just enough threes, and by adding a get past my man and get it up before the help defenders there. We flipped this on last night, and, man, their defense is just suffocating. It's stupid. You just feel like you're always driving into some tree. Like, every time you beat a guy off the dribble,

if you do, because they got great perimeter defenders that stay in front of you. And they've got like a, the thing I like about them is not only do they play this suffocating defense, they got like a swagger about their defense. Yes. Like, they'll steer your ass down after they block your shot or they'll like, you know, after they grab a loose ball, they're kind of like pumped their, you know, they got these guys that like make these defensive plays and all of a sudden you're looking up and they're celebrating like guys usually do like after dunks and stuff.

I love their defense. I really like this team. I was high on this team before, and then Van Caro was playing so well. He's one of the guys who really took the leap. It's unfortunate because, you know, we always talk about people taking a leap. And I really feel like Chet and Bancaro were the two players that were really taking the leap before they got injured. But this team, man, they're still doing it. Now, they've got the Clippers, Lakers, Pistons, Hornets, Bulls, Nets and Nets upcoming.

So I don't see this slowing down anytime soon. Well, and we're seeing a lot of these teams that if they, They have, because of the injuries early in the season, it's been a lot of pressure put on how good is your management team and what kind of roster have they built? Because you're seeing the teams that are able to withstand it, like Oklahoma City, like Orlando. Cleveland, who is 15 and 0, we just chronicled their depth this year

and how they're able to play all of these guys, 17 or more minutes. Warriors Rockets. It's been one of the great stories this year. So there's just been so much pressure put on your team depth early in the season that you're able to withstand it. And I do think that speaks to, you know, some of the – and then some of these others that have not been able to, i.e. when you have seen Denver without Nicola Yokic, even for five minutes at a time, when you see the Philadelphia 76ers, you know, in this day and age, it's hard to have depth. And I – sons, sons without KD. don't look the same. You know, that's right.

AD had one game off. I think it was against the Grizzlies. It's a little bit of the whole, is this the new money ball, you're right? At the same time, it's November in the regular season. You know what I mean? Yeah,

but we have a seven-game series. You're going to need that guy. We say that, but I just told you that the team with the first and 12th best score in the entire NBA sucks. They do. You know?

They do. They do. They really do. So those are some of the surprises that we've had early this season. Emirates Cup going on tonight. And obviously we will convene. Yep. All right.

How long do you think that, so look, people are a lot of people are going to listen to this after they see that game, I'm sure. I say the Kev Street keeps going. Celtics went tonight. Okay. Celtics went tonight. I think the Celtics really want this one. This is going to be a playoff game. This is going to be a playoff game.

That place will be packed 20 minutes before tip. This is going to be like rocking garden. We're going to put an end to this playoff atmosphere. I'm very excited for it. Yeah, it'll be fun. Thank you, our producer, Jesse Lopez, as always. And Jacoby, I'll talk to you later this week. Must be 21 and over in present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star

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