The Mismatch - Can the Knicks Force a Game 7? Plus: the Thunder Are Finals-Bound, and the Missing Playoff Intensity.

Episode Date: May 30, 2025

Verno and Jacoby react to the Knicks shutting down Tyrese Haliburton and the Pacers to survive for at least one more game. Jacoby shares his experience from inside MSG, the Knicks' stingy defense, as well as the hot-and-cold playoff performances from Tyrese Haliburton. Have the Knicks figured out how to contain the Pacers? Next, the guys congratulate the Thunder for beating the Wolves in five games to reach the NBA Finals. They discuss the Thunder’s dominance for most of the series, SGA’s consistency, and what has been missing from the both conference finals. (0:00) Welcome to The Mismatch!(1:15) Knicks Defeat Pacers: 111-94 (IND 3-2)(21:23) Tyrese Haliburton's Game 4 vs. Game 5 Performance(32:32) Game 6 Preview: Knicks vs. Pacers [-4](51:09) Thunder Advance to the NBA Finals (OKC 4-1)(55:58) What's Next for the T-Wolves?(1:04:52) Thunder Look Better Than Ever After WCF Game 5 Leave us a message on our Mismatch Voicemail line! [phone]The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Chris Vernon and David JacobyProducers: Jessie Lopez and Tucker TashjianSocial: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You must be 21 and present in select states. Gambling problem, call 100 gambler or visit RG-hashelp.com. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me see does every week from the ringer.com. And straight out of Madison Square Garden on this Thursday, May 20, night evening where the Knicks have extended the Eastern Conference finals and saved all of us as basketball fans from not just having to sit around for a week off without basketball. Dave Jacoby joins me. Jacoby. It was tough to get out of the garden. Everybody stayed in their

seats until the final buzzer. And then like 7th Avenue is nuts. Nuts. Nuts. You can't get out. We're not starting with the end, Jacoby. We're starting with the beginning. So, first of all, did you buy tickets to this? Yeah, yeah. Online, like a secondary market? If you want to start with the beginning, I think it's important to mention game four.

Okay. Because it didn't look good for the Knicks. It just felt like the Pacers were better prepared, better executing, better basketball team, just from top to bottom. And I think that affected the ticket price. So I often look on a ticket app And I saw a little like a little dip in the market

So I said to myself, wait a second We have a show that night Wouldn't it be good for the show if I went to the game? So I got some tickets Look at you, Karen, about the show And I was, I'm in the 200 sections You know, you've been to MSG You take the escalators up, took a little more escalators up

that I'm used to. You know, things are different up there. The hallways are tighter. I kept looking for you next to Shalameh and Kylie Jenner, and I didn't see you. And I was like, oh, maybe you didn't get those seats. No,

no. But I had a great time. And I think the game four, I think it's kind of silly to talk about it on this Thursday evening after game five. But that was, the paces were just better. Well, and the reason to bring it up is because it,

pressed the market on this because you're only going to a deciding game if your team loses, right? Otherwise, you're not going to it. Like, the only way that this decides anything is if the Knicks drop it. Otherwise, there's going to be a game six in Indiana. And obviously, Knicks fans very hopeful there will be a game seven in Madison Square Garden. And we'll drill down on this game, but game one was Neesmith hitting six threes. Crazy.

like miraculous, like an act of God. And I thought game two was Pascal Seaccom, 16 points in the first quarter. Nuts. Game four, Halliburton, like, dude, he was like, Magic Johnson mixed with Penny Hardaway. Like, it was just nuts.

Like, it was crazy. The lack of turnover is the whole thing. In game five, I've never seen this Knicks team play defense like that. I just have not seen. I've not seen it. And we talked about this before the series even started, Jacoby, about the pace of the game. Is this going to be up and down? Are the Knicks going to get duped into playing full court basketball? Because if it is a half court game, that is where their advantage lies. And to wit, they have won two games in the series. They have given up 100 points and they have given up 94 points. And they have given up 94 points. tonight. And I went back and look just to see how rare this was. Now, obviously, 100 was the lowest that Indiana had scored in the playoffs thus far. They had only lost three playoff games coming into

tonight. In their loss to Cleveland, they scored 104. In their loss to Milwaukee, they scored 101. And then their loss earlier in this series, they scored 100. But I went back to the regular season to find if they had scored less than 94 in a game. See, I can't do this because I'm at the game. That's why I love you doing the research. Okay. The last time they scored 94 or less was February 4th at Portland. Were there like seven guys out or something?

No. Back to back. No, this is the craziest thing. It's only happened. Hold on. I charted it out. One, twice, three times, four times. It happened five times this year.

So they've played 82 plus. Yes. Let's think. Nine, ten. Like, they've played. What's all? The 15. 19.

Yeah. 97 games. 97 games. Five times where I could find they scored less than 100. Okay. Oh, I thought. you meant 94 or less, so less than 100? Yes.

Okay, listen to this. Hey, when I tell you the games, you're immediately going to write it off as they didn't care about that game. Listen to this. Are the hornets involved? Yes. Of course they are.

Look, 89 at Portland, 890 at Brooklyn. They went out that night. That was probably, I'm a guess this is a Saturday at 3 o'clock in Brooklyn. It is honestly, when I went through and charted this out, I was laughing so hard. Because I was like, 94 seems like they never score that. And so I'm like, let me go back and look at when they scored low totals.

Okay, 89 at Portland in February. Then they had to go back in December one time at Brooklyn. In November, they did it twice. at Charlotte and at Orlando. And this is under 100. Yeah. I mean, those were 90. They scored 90 in those games.

And then the other one was they scored under 100. The second game of the season, they got run out of the building by the Knicks, no less. So five times. Oh, but that was right after that Celtics game. Remember the Celtics game to start the season? Second game of the year. And honestly, it's Portland, Brooklyn, Charlotte, Orlando.

So, like, this team just does not score low totals, ever, ever. You can go through the whole damn season and you try to find these. And they stick out like a sore thumb. It might happen once a month or twice a month. But both teams virtually, they've got the craziest, like, schedule chart when you look at it. Because everybody's just, both teams are in the hundreds, every game. Every game. And they also, the stat on the, we've all, we all have the same algorithm.

right pump us the same stats the stat on the paces is that 114 is their watermark right and they're over 114 they've got this crazy number but to be 20 points below that from a next team not known for their defense this is not like a defensive team well they were immense and they cut the head of the snake right haliburton boy are we two days removed from haliburton as a top 10 NBA player discussions and dude I mean, he went 32, 15, and 12, which is truly beyond super star numbers. Zero turnovers. Tonight. Zero. Two for seven, eight points, six assists. And, you know, Kat was on the postgame show with TNT. And he talked about how we wanted to crowd him and give him no space.

And they showed these clips of McKell Bridges and others. I mean, just it's no airspace. the whole time. And we wanted to make him see multiple guys, right? So they were good. The intention was, we're going to make this guy's life hell. And obviously the reason is going into this game, he had scored or assisted on 41% of the Pacers points in the series. Tonight, he scored or assisted. He scored or assisted and he was involved in 23 of their 94 points 21% because they didn't score it at all unbelievable unbelievable well and honestly nobody else did either i mean see ickham's 5 for 13 matherin was like their weapon he's the only one i mean Turner like we talked about how

three guys and double figures they're three guys and double figures and we said this is a balanced team. It's not like where it's like really heliocentric where they're counting on one guy or they're counting on two guys. Like even when you looked at like the top scorers in the playoffs, it was like, here's Halliburton, here's Seacom, and here's Turner close behind. And then they got a couple other guys that are getting you 10 or 12. Well, Seacum was 5 for 13. Turner was 2 for 3, 5 points and four turnovers. And what? Neat? Yes. Wait, Miles Turner had five points and four turnovers. And Neesmith was one for eight, one for five from three, three points.

So you're telling that Miles Teller had a better game than Miles Turner. I think Miles Teller had a better game than Miles Turner. And Aaron Neesmith, I mean, who in game one made five threes in the last six threes in the last five minutes of the game, made one tonight. I think, and I was going to get to this later, because I'm going to. want to talk about the game, but I do think there's is a bit of the Warriors Game 5, Steve Kerr, Indiana Game 5, Rick Carlisle being like, you know what, maybe it's not on the night. They jumped out to an early lead. Let me play Neesmith a little less than I normally do. Let me play Halliburton a little less than I normally do.

It did feel a little bit of white flaggy. Did it feel that way watching on the TV? It felt, um, I didn't want to talk about this early. No, but they, they even talked about this on the bruntgy. They had a discussion on this in the broadcast, and I agreed, you know, I think Kenny Smith was trying to do the, he was trying to be the rebuttal, but that didn't work with Shaq and with Chuck because they were talking about how they thought Indiana played like a team that had wiggle room. And I agree with that, right? There was a level of intensity and desperation that they could not meet tonight. And the Knicks won every 50-50 ball.

And they were fighting and scratching and claw in the whole game. And that never happened. You know, coaches now and Carlisle, I'll even said it after the game, talking about playing with force. We didn't play with force. I was actually on the city bike riding here, and I listened to all of that. You did?

But the phone was in my pockets. I didn't, I just had the broadcast on in my earbuds. And yeah. But I'll say one thing that was very important for being in the building. it was so important they started hot. Yep. Because everyone's so excited. And like it's game five and like the energy is so high.

And game four, I guess not for people that don't really, really pay attention. But if you're really paying attention, game four was really bad for the Knicks. Like it was like really bad. Halliburton was out of control great. But it's not just that.

It's just like the defensive rotations, the matchups. It seems like they were just like, it seemed like the paces were. better at every position, just a better organized basketball team from a coaching standpoint as well. So I went into this being like, you know what, beat the Celtics, like, if you don't make the finals, it's fine. And to start that hot and to have them calling early time out and have Brunson like hit a three and get a layup and just like get the crowd on their feet, I think

that was so important for this game because they rode that way through the end. The Knicks don't win like this. This is not how they win. Before they started so hot and they got on that early run. Did you think it was like a nervous energy in the crowd? Or did you think everybody was hyped and that Indiana was walking into a hornets nest? Because I've been in those arenas where it's like, where it's like, I hope we win. There are those games where it's like there's the I hope we win games and there's the we're going to kick your ass games. Oh, this was I hope we win game for sure.

Yeah. And myself, I've been walking through the city all day being like, look, you know, you, you set yourself up to Pete the Celtics and you ran into some crazy performances from Seacum and Halliburton and Neesmith. And like, you know, it's okay to be second place in the Eastern conference. I don't tell myself all day long. It's okay if you don't win. Like, it's not that big a deal. And, but there were still moments like, the Hackamitch moment was like, I've, I've watched it on television and felt it on my couch. But when you're in the building, when he's on the line. It's someone tried to start a let's go Mitch because there's a lot of like let's go Nick's chance. But that's like, so it's like, so we got 30% of the crowd being like, let's go Mitch. The other 70% of the crowd is like,

everybody shut up. This man needs to focus. And the second it leaves his hand, it's just so obviously off. Because when you're in the building, you can see the trajectory of a shot in a different way than you can on TV. it's like it's so clearly hitting the back iron and they does it twice in a row and then you look at

towns with four fouls and you're like oh no here comes precious precious exactly oh by the way speaking of chance in the crowd i'm going to give you your credit i was so proud of you starting that landry sham it i was so proud of you starting that i knew i'm like that that's how i know jacobo he's at the game. There's a Landry Shammett chant. There was a Landry Shammett chant on the staircase leaving the building after

the game was over. I love it. I couldn't believe it. I love it. And you know, I don't know if I've expressed it on this pod, but I'm not the biggest Landry Shammett fan. Oh, yeah, we know. Not the biggest. We know. All of his stops. Not just in New York, but like all of his stops.

I'm like, what is this man good at? I thought to myself, You know, you can hear it loud and clear through the TV after he gets the, he's got McConnell pinned on the baseline. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he slaps it off his knee. And then they come back down the other way. And the whole crowd is going, Landry, Shab it, right? Like 100% of the crowd.

Like not just like one section. All I could think about was you probably grousing, slinking into your chair, like, oh, Jesus, I'm not doing this. Do you know what I did? What? I did it. You didn't leave you, damn it. There's something about, like, the group, you know what I mean? Like, we're all a hive.

Peer pressure. 16, yes. It's like, sure, why not? They won you over. They won you over. Dallon Wright made a couple of plays. It's so weird because, like, last season's Knicks team, it was like, oh, like, OG can't play.

And Timito was like, we'll play with four. You know what I mean? But to his credit, like he, He's opened up the rotation. He's been, he's done weird things. He's kept bruntling to out longer than he normally does. And there's a real good Carltony Town stretch. And I've said on this pod, and I'll say it again, like,

when you watch next games, like, there's no answer for him driving towards the basket on the Celtics or like, there is not a single person in the Pacers that can stay in front of him. And when he up fakes and decides that he's going to take one dribble and two steps, and his drives like you watch Anthony Edwards or Shay Gilders Alexander who we're going to get to but you watch them drive

to the basket and finish at the rim and it is like it's like classical music it's like graceful there's a grace to yeah it's just and they get their knuckles to the rim and they're using the athleticism and tricking the defense and moving their shoulders and everything but like

cat is like a tank going through mud it's going to get to where it's going and it's ugly and it's gross. And he's cuffing the ball like a football. Like, it's just gross. But it works. It does. There's no answer for him

on this roster. Who's the best defender on the Pacers to stop Carlinty Towns when he's driving towards the basket? I mean, they're trying Siakum and he's just flailing. And Turner's not working either. Right. And so I would say that, well,

let me just speak on the cat thing first. They flashed up a stat at the end of the game where I was like, whoa, now, this is some very, very, very exclusive company. Because look, we're getting stats every single night of this is the first guy to do this than this. Oh, yeah, like the Halliburton game, the way it goes. Yeah. Well, at all. And it was overload with the Brunson stuff tonight. Like, they were like, Brunson's got 10 games in the playoffs now with 30.

30 points and five, no, no, it's 30 points and five assists in a game, right? Ten times he's done this so far. And they said it's happened with Michael Jordan three times, LeBron James, three times, and Shay Kildesis Alexander this year, and Jalen Brunson this year. Like those are the only times that you've had 10 games with 30 plus and five assists, and two of them are going on simultaneously in this postseason. I would say this to that stat is there's a difference between doing it once and doing it three times. Well, no, 10 times.

No, I mean, doing that. No, LeBron and Michael have three of those. Oh, right, right, right, right. You see what I'm saying? There's difference in doing it once and doing it three times. Yes, for sure. Yeah, yeah, you guys are having a great year. But, like, you know, you have a great career when you do it three times.

The cat one, which this is, you know, you're doing it three times. The cat one, which this is the one I was talking about, is an exclusive company, 20 points or more five times, right, through the first five games of a conference finals. And Brunson and Towns apply to this. And the only other times it has happened or in 2002 Kobe and Shaq did it. And in 1966, Jerry West and Elja Baylor did it. I was stunned by that. Wait, say it again? you had to have 20 plus two different guys.

Each of you, 20 plus. In the first five games of a conference finals. Oh, okay. There's a lot of qualifiers there, sure. No, it's really not. Wouldn't you think that, like, LeBron and Wade did it? Wouldn't you think that, like,

there's been a bunch of duos in the history of the NBA. Of course. And so you would think, like, all right, 20. I mean, we're not talking about. Kobe would do it. Yeah, we're not talking about 30. We're talking about 20. But 20 plus in the first.

in the first five games of a conference finals in tandem. And they have done it every game. So, I mean, and we talk about this over and over again, Jacoby. Do your big dogs deliver, right? And obviously we're going to get to Anton Randall versus, you know, Gildes Alexander and his running buddies. But tonight was a night where it's like Brunson delivers in absolute spades. He is a superstar level performance.

And Towns is simultaneously. great. And on the other side, Halliburton stinks, Seacum stinks, Turner stinks, and it's like... I want to talk about Halliburton. Yeah. What I saw in game four was like a chess master. It was like a someone who has perfected their craft and someone who has made themselves excellent and everybody around them better and is the conductor of this offensive orchestra that

I honestly felt I was like, man, I can't wait to watch him against the Thunder defense. I can't wait. And then tonight, was it strategic? It's slow down basketball. It's slow down basketball. But you don't, okay, so to the stat that you just gave, you don't see Brunson go from, is he a top five player in the league to what happened to him? And you don't see Kat do that either.

There's a consistency to them no matter what the other team throws at them defensively. And I've said it to you before the playoffs started. This is not about Paces versus Nix. Before the playoffs started, I said, Halliburton is like a hot and cold up and down playoff performer. And the stats back it up. And I just didn't, I've never seen it so hot to so cold. Oh, has anybody?

Eight hours, dude. I mean, 48 hours. There were legitimate debates on where he is within the, pantheon of NBA superstars after his performance in game four. That was a real discussion that happened everywhere. For a good reason. He had 32, 15, and 12. And zero turnovers.

It was unbelievable. He was dominant. Dominant. Like, amazing. You could put that stat line up against anybody's stat lines. I watched all the clips. I watched all the game four clips of Halliburton. He was doing things like God-level shit that

was just like, like, oh, there's that one player, I forget who it was, they had Mitch on him. And he just raised up like he was going to shoot a three. And then acted like he was going to drive. And this isn't like brand new. And then took a mid-range shot, which isn't really his thing. And it was honestly like, I don't know how any human could stay in front of that. We should like, we have to assassinate him to win game five.

Well, and I think that this is, right, when you get to the point where you can deal with all manner of things that are thrown at you. That's why, and we've talked about so many times, that teams typically have seen a lot of different defenses. They've had different coaches game plan against them. And so you take all that institutional knowledge, and that's when you truly become consistently great, right? It's the challenge that Anthony Edwards has, like, you know,

he's going to be so much better for what he just went. went through and those struggles. And Halliburton will see, is this a bounce back in the next game? Or is this, hey, we figured out how to really tamp down this guy. And this is the head of the snake. And you see what happens when we cut off the head of the snake. And so it's easier said to done. Obviously, he's had.

I mean, look, his numbers going into tonight were absolutely incredible. This is by far the worst of the series. I mean, I've got it right here. So far this series, he was averaging through games one through four, 24 points on 46% from the field, 33% from 3, and 11 assists, and a plus 28. Tonight, 8 points, 2 for 7, 03 pointers, 6 assists, and was a minus 23. like it was just it wasn't anything like any of the first four games we've seen

it's crazy they shut it down they did this last year halberton did this last year against the Knicks I don't have it in front of me it was like game two where he was just like four points it was just kind of like just didn't show up like I've seen this before

but as someone who's rooting for the Knicks I'm terrified I'm terrified of the bounce back game and one thing's interesting Because you won everything, Jacoby. I mean, tonight, they won rebounding. They scored 94 points. They won rebounding.

They won offensive rebounding. They won offensive rebounding. They won the turnover battle. This was a dominant, dominant Nick's performance. True. Yes. And it did feel, I was sitting there being like, why is Halliburne sitting this much of the second quarter?

And why is Neesmith sitting this much of the second quarter? And I thought that Carlisle was sort of reserved. energy for a potential second half comeback, but this could never get the game close enough for that to happen. Well, and if you, you know, you probably heard him after the game. One of the things he was, and this is why I do like Rick Carlisle, they were asking about like, hey, your best player only took seven shots tonight. Do you need to get?

And he's like, I need to do a better job of, right? Like they obviously showed him things and they were doing things that were to take him out of the game. I need to do a better job of putting him in different spots. To Tibbs credit, if you notice tonight, there was a lot of Brunson off the ball at the start of that game. You weren't starting the possession with Brunton, right? Like this is, and there are wrinkles that happen as this goes on. They would start with him off the ball, but he would get it with, you know, after five seconds and then still do his Brunson thing.

But I thought that when Neesmith was in the game, they did a good job. Hey, Bridges, or Hart, dribble the ball up, dude. don't make this man body up against like a 215 pounds of steel wire and turn his back to him and dribble like they did a good job of making it a little bit easier on Brunson. Well, PS, in that fourth quarter, when, you know, there's, there's no way everybody doesn't have a little PTSD from game one because the leads huge. Everybody's the whole, I was with 20,000 other people. We all had it.

We got down to 12 points. I know. When it got to 12 points, it was a problem. But even it was such a crazy, I can't imagine what was like in the arena because on TV, it was such an insane viewing experience for there to be 3.34 left in the game. And they're down 16. And Reggie Miller's like, this is when Neesmith got hot in the last game. You're like, they're down 16.

Like, it is crazy to think back. Like, why, how are we even talking about how this could possibly be a game? But winning plays down the stretch, heart again, two big buckets. And he's had double-digit rebounds in three straight games off the bench, just like getting every loose ball. And then Bridges, I swear, Bridges can get that damn shot off on anybody. That one where he goes to the free throw line. There is nothing more reliable than McKell Bridges,

dribbling into the paint, getting nine feet from the basket, raising up and shooting a fadeaway. He missed one in the fourth quarter, and my whole section was just like, what the fuck? He never misses that. In my head, he was like 30 points,

and then I saw at the end of the game, he was like five for six from the field, and I was like, I remember that one miss more than anything else. When he gets to that spot, because his arms are so long and his release point is so high, when he gets to, he puts his lead foot down and jumps backwards and fades and then relocates the basket.

It's just, it's just going in. They got to use that more. They got to use that more. It feels unstoppable. Well, so does Cat. Yeah. And so does Brunson. Like, I think, I don't, I think Bridges is fine where he's at.

You know what I mean? I think during those non-brunson minutes, if they really load up on Cat, you can use them a bit more. but this is a really good Knicks game. Every player played their role perfectly. And you don't normally get a 9 out of 10 from six or seven guys. You know what I mean? Well, it is one of those perfect storms where it feels like the Knicks played great and the Pacers played like crap.

And I think part of the Knicks played great made the Pacers play like crap. This is the best defense I've seen this. team play. This is the best defense I've seen them play. Of course. Of course it had an impact. I mean, they were swarming everywhere. Van Duel is letting you get in on the NBA playoffs conference finals action right from the first tip. Right now, we are down to the wire, game six in front of us in the Eastern Conference Finals. And right now, all customers can get a no sweat same game parlay every weekend when you bet the NBA play. That's right.

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And so, and look, game six will tell the story now, right? Was that a we had some wiggle room, we're not desperate, you're desperate, right? Like, if we lose, we're going back home to close you out in game six. We just saw

this three weeks ago with the Warriors and the Rockets. It's the same story. I know. It's the same story. We're on the road. We got down early. Yeah. We don't need this one. They need this one. Next thing you know you're playing in a game seven on the road. Exactly.

And look, I agree with the TNT guys are saying, by the way, can I just mention a very odd experience with the TNT thing because we're half, this might be the last time you ever see us on this channel. I felt this way. Ever since they announced the ESPN thing, I'm like, where are you guys going? It's just odd. You're going to be doing preseason games in like five months. I know. But they have to do this whole. like this may be the last time, but hey, we're bringing this new show to whatever network we're

going and it's going to be great too. And it's, you know, should we say goodbye to everybody and should we shout out every cameraman. I got it. As far as I understand it, as far as I understand it, every production assistant is coming back. They're in the same studio. They've got the exact same show. It's just with a different channel. Different letters.

Yeah. It's like, so, listen, everybody deserves their first. flowers, but you are not going anywhere. As a viewer, it's the exact same for me. It's the exact same. It's just very strange. It's like inside the NBA on Turner, this might be the last broadcast. And then it's like, actually we'll see you on Saturday.

Oh, that one, too. Right? Right. Where it's like, so you've got this whole, you're, you're kind of, you're toe in the line of is this the last time we're ever doing this on this channel? Oh, actually, it's not. We'll see you on Saturday. And that'll be for sure the last time we ever see you on this channel.

Unless there's a game on Monday. Unless there's a game on Monday. And also it's like literally as far as I don't have the details of the deal or whatever. As far as I understand it, they're just going to change like the logo in the middle of the desk. Like I think everything else stays the same. It's the same guys. Yeah. The same production crew.

The same everything. So anyways, what I was. say it is odd deal watching it, but I did agree with them when they were saying, and this is good for you to speak on because you were in that environment. I felt like, and sometimes you can't just be overtaken by the environment you're in. But their sentiment was, Charles especially, was that's a hundred percent must win for Indiana because they are not winning a game seven in this place. And I was like, oh, okay.

Like, he was truly, like, they were like, Indiana better take care of business in Indiana because they will not win a game seven there. And I was like, wow. It's so funny because, like, there's your instinct and then there's like the numbers. And both of these teams have played so well in the road in the playoffs. Like the knee Smith, Nemhard and Halliburton shooting numbers before this game were like, they're like double on the road. And I got it that they're up three, two.

still right now. But the Vegas odds are pretty severe still. Like, it's, I saw right before we went on. The Pacers have two chances to win. Like, I got it. But minus 360, the Knicks are plus 310.

I mean, but look, the reason I say this is because that's just based on six, Jacoby. The Knicks will be favored if there's a game seven in New York. Absolutely. So it's really just do you think the Knicks can win on the road one game, game six? And I will say the one thing I would hold on to if you're a Knicks fan that would give me hope is the 94 is so anemically low. Like that is so far beyond like anything reasonable.

I told you, bro, this does not happen to this team. It doesn't. they're shitty games. They score a hundred. There was five games under 100. But also it's like Matherin had 23. Seacum had 15 and then third highest score is topping with 11. Dude.

I am, I, well, and it's hard for me to sit here and be like, I know what's going to happen in game six because I am also 48 hours removed from game four. I know. Where the Pacers were just better. But they were.

They led from start to finish. They were just better. Let me try to pump you up a little bit than thinking that there's a chance. I got it. It's a long shot. Pacers are going to be favored in game six. The giving up the 94, and more importantly to me, was, is that what backs against the wall Nix look like?

You cannot replicate. You're never going to see backs against the wall Nix. until their back is actually against the wall. But their level of effort, intensity, focus, detail, like all that stuff all showed up tonight. Maybe they get run out in game six. I don't know. I don't know either.

I can't say you're predicted, but I'll say this is like, when I look back at this series, I think that Neesmith had the game of his life in game one. And I think Seaccom had the game of his life in game two. And I feel like Halliburton had the game of his life in game four. So maybe Obie Top is going to score 35 points. But it feels like they're having outlier performances to beat the Knicks.

And Brunson's always going to have 25 and Katz always going to have 20. And Hart's always going to get some offensive rebounds. I just feel like the Knicks performance is just more consistent. And there's more variance with the Pacer. They have actually outscored the Pacer so far in the series. Totally. Well, when you do what you did today, that's going to swing. I got it.

It's been close. The game's been close. Yeah. Like I'm not going to say to be like I'm very confident that they win. Well, look, we're all, and here's the other thing, if I'm trying to talk you into this as to why this could happen. Bro, we all, everybody in the free world admit this should be three two nicks. And also. It should be three two.

Like, with that, with the, game one was literally a mirror. It was like I spoke to the guy next to me today I was like it was like an act of God It was like an act of God It was like a force majeure Whatever they say in your contract Like we were talking about how like

You know you get these goofy stats About players after every game That takes place But like the stats after that one were like Teams in this situation were 0 and 5 million Yeah Yeah But the Pacers have done it three times

Like what what are you talking about? Oh, and $3 million. Like, no one has ever lost. I think forget about the Bucks one they did. I know. The Cavs one with the Kneesmith. Oh, no, I still.

Alliburton dribbleback. No, only because, you know, I write down everything like longhand, so it helps me retain it. I still remember what I had written in my notebook during the Cavs series. and the stat was that teams down seven with less than 90 seconds to go were 1 and 384. And it was a Oklahoma City game against the Clippers in like the 2000s, right? That was it.

And then the Pace. No back hit a three. No. But the Pacers had done it twice already in the postseason. before that teams were 1 and 384 and then they won up that with the stupid nix game which again you make one free if ogy and obi makes a free throw if carl towns makes a free throw there's so much yeah there's so many things i know i know it's so many i don't think i mean look i i can't tell you and especially after the thunder just humiliated the teawolfs

and we know that the finals has a set date. We had to have this happen. We need this. No, we need this as basketball fans. Like, a full week off is just weird. Like,

I'm going to start watching like the Liberty. Like, I don't even know what to do. Like I'm going to start watching like WMBA games. Like, I've been watching, dude. I joked with my buddies today.

I like WMBA games, but that's for like later in the summer. That's not for June. So I was home. Uh, The kids had stuff going on. They were gone. And so it was like 536 yesterday.

And I was like, well, the game doesn't start until 7.30. Like, I got to kill some time. And so I joked with my buddies today. I said, I told them, I said, if you would have asked me at 705 Central last night, if you would have told me that the worst thing I, I watched was not the Brett Farv Dock on Netflix? I would have never believed you

because I watched that damn thing just to kill the time. The Brought? Yeah. You know those untold? I have no interest. Okay. You know they have that whole untold series, you know, on Netflix? Yeah. Well, the new one

I mean, it should just be called Brett Farve is a dirt bag. It's like an hour of Brett Farv is a dirt. Like, and it's so crazy because just a little sidebar on this. Like, we don't live in like the 50s, right? Like, where it's like, they treat this whole documentary as if everybody out there still has

this super high opinion of Brett Farvin doesn't care about any of his indiscretions. Like, we don't know about him. It's not like, read all the stuff. It's not like Mickey Mantle. I've seen the picture of his dick, he said, Jim Sturcher. Right. We all know, like, so you don't need to convince me. Right, where it's, it kind of felt like, hey, I'm going to try to convince you for an hour that this guy's a third bag.

And it's like, we all read it. We, yeah, like, this isn't my dad, like, finding out that Mickey Mantle wasn't the greatest guy, you know? Like, he didn't have any means to know. And so then he would be theoretically exposing that. Yeah, a quick Google search can get you there in 10 seconds. We don't need a 15 minute talk on this. Oh, my God. And so anyways, the point is.

I was suffering because I'm just like looking for things to I'm just trying to find stuff. Friends and neighbors, bro. Friends and neighbors. Friends and neighbors. What is that? John Ham's new show on Apple. On what? Apple.

Good. Good. Yeah, just finished. It's good. Yeah, yeah. Good show. How many episodes? What are we talking commitment wise?

Nine episodes. It's not going to blow you away with intelligence. But it's a great watch. Don't worry. Don't worry. That's not my speed. Yeah, yeah. There's go.

So while we're doing it. aside before we get to the other series. I got one for you. I'm at the game, right? They got this thing. They put a big tick-tac-toe board at half court, right? They got this guy named Will. He's going up against, I forget the guy's name. I'll call him Gary. So you have to make a layup

and then like one of the promo people gives you a big X or an O and you put it down to play tick-tac-toe. We've all seen this before, right? Yeah, yeah. My guy Will. He's the first one to the board. bottom right corner

what are you doing center piece there anyone who's old enough you've seen Hollywood squares you go center right I know I think he went top right so then the other person goes center and then he goes like

top left this is the most entertaining thing to you isn't it and the other person goes top middle to block Will so he's got three in a row sitting right there waiting for him. Will comes back first from making the layout.

Doesn't block Gary. Oh, no. And the whole crowd, 20,000 people are just like, what is wrong with you, dude? Deserving this up. Have you ever played Tick Taktow before? He might not have.

It was like he's in front of 20,000 people. When I said to the guy next to me, I was like, he has not enough kids. Anybody with kids knows how to win Tick Tac Ttoe. Because you're waiting for the app, You've already ordered. You're killing time.

Like this guy will. God bless him. Because they're like athletic dudes in their like late 20s. Like they're making the layups. And I don't, I've never seen anyone fumbled tic tact toe this bad before in the world. They did it for 20,000 people that were on the edge of their seats. No one's going to the bathroom.

No, like we're locked in on this tick, tack toe game. And he fumbled it twice. Twice. And you're there. in front of, you know, Ben Stiller and Timothy Shalame and Spike Lee and you got all kinds of stars sitting in the front row. It makes it all the, all the worst, right?

And you got all these famous people sitting there watching you telling you what a bum you are and how bad you stink at Tick, Takedo. And imagine walking off of that court and realizing what just happened. Oh, the worst. Two quick questions. Hey, did you go with a buddy or did you buy a ticket as a single? Solo ticket because I tried to buy two and like the price is doubled. So you bought one ticket. Walking in.

Thing is like I know a ton of people here. I've been here forever. So I've bumped into a buddy and his brother, two of my good friends, Ben Dietrich and Alex Dietrich. Ben Dietrich's worked with this crew before, the host of the Cookies podcast. And so I hung out with them before and I hung on with them at halftime. Did you know? I don't leave my seat during the game. You did.

And you did not know the people you were sitting next to. No, but the woman to my right, I don't think she's a life Knicks fan. I feel like she might be from another country and just like there for the vibes. She was just like, I just want to see this game. And the guy to my left was like old school Knicks die hard and me and him chatted the whole time. He was a dad. Yeah. Did you do you buy refreshments?

Do you buy stuff at the game? I do not eat at Madison Square Guard. You don't. I do not eat there. No. But just for vibes, like, I don't want to be intoxicated because I have a show to do after the game. So just for the vibes, I'll get one beer just to like have for the first half and then one beer just to have for the second half just for like muscle memory. But I'm used to sitting in the 100 section and the 200 section.

No cup holders. That thing's going right in the ground. I will, I will say the ice cream there is fantastic. I know because I went and that's what I. I was doing when the grizzlies were getting beat by 65. Well, you guys, the grisys were down by so many at that point. When we went with our watch? Turn your attention to something else.

I left and went to the lobby and bought a Patrick Ewing plushy, a Josh Hart jersey for my kid and a bowl of ice cream. Because they do celebrity row. And let me tell you, like, usually people are just like, they're like, you know, look at the crowd. They point to the camera. They're like, let's go next. Patrick Ewing was fired up when he had his moment.

He was fired up today. Oh, yeah. He was big. That's awesome. That's Shibuzi there. I don't remember Shibuzi being in. I don't remember him being, he might just be in town. I don't know, probably because Beyonce's been in town.

He probably, like, did a feature or whatever. But I don't remember him being a big Knicks fan. I don't remember Miles Teller being a big Knicks fan, but there's a bunch. They were there. They were there. All right. Well, look, obviously the Knicks are moving to game six. There have been, I saw a little bit earlier.

there was a guy on Twitter, I always shout him out. Anthony Donahue, Anthony MSG. And he said, 1994, went to Indiana for game six in the Eastern Conference Finals down 3-2. John Stark had a huge game and the Knicks won,

forced the game 7, won that, and went on to the finals. Then 1995, went to Indiana down 3-2. That was the second round, right? In the second round at one, forced the game 7. at the garden and we know what happened there.

Then he said, and then I forgot about this one, 2013 went to Indiana down 3-2 and Roy Hibbert, enough said. That was the Corralo block. The verticality postseason. Interestingly enough, though, three, two, three different times in Indiana. It's also weird that Roy Hibbert was like the most important

basketball player in the planet for like two weeks that year and then just disappeared. Disappear, completely disappeared. Shout to Roy Hibbert. Let's briefly talk about... He's on CBS Sports Network now. Good for him. He's always had a good personality.

He is. He's good on TV. I've always liked him. I've always liked him. It was just odd that he went from one of the most 15 important basketball players. I'm not to say best, like important, talked about impactful basketball players in the planet. And then two years later, it's like, who wants Roy Habert?

Like, guess what? No one. It was weird. Yeah, right. He's gone the way of, like, yeah. We just went through that whole time span where Draymond, like, eradicated all big guys. All big men. It's like Draymond Green, like the fat kid from Michigan State.

I know. If you're over seven feet, you can't get a job. And now it's like two bigs. We need two bigs. All right. So let's move to the other series. So the reason that we're excited that we're at least going to get to get a game six in Nick's Pacers is because Oklahoma City laid waste to the Minnesota Timberwolds.

That was a disgusting backs against the wall performance by the Timberwolves. I mean, theoretically, you make all manner of adjustments. Your back is against a wall. There is no tomorrow. And I texted you last night and I said, they just scored nine points in the first quarter. It was over so quickly. It was unbelievable.

I don't want to let people too far behind the curtain. But before I took this gig, I spoke with like some of the important people at the ring. and I was like, I just want you guys to know, like, I don't have like a second spectrum account. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not like, rewatching games twice.

Like, I'm just like a dude that loves basketball and I watch every game every night. And I'm not being passed constantly. And no, but so I rewatched that game. Why? Because I was like, I want to see that I saw what I saw. And when I rewatched it in the morning,

I think it was much more of like a, Thunder victory than a Timberwolves loss. I think the Thunder just just just belt to ask them. Did you go over to Zach Lowe's house to watch it in the morning? No, I have a league pass account. Oh, yeah. He watches games in the morning.

I thought you might have just going over to Zach. He lives upstate. He's too far away. If he was in Manhattan, I would go over there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You guys could have gotten together for a rewatch. Old friend, great to have him back at the ringer. But yeah, I was like, I rewatch that one.

because I wanted to make sure I saw what I saw. And on the second watch, it was much more of the Thunder defense being excellent than it was like Anthony Edwards not showing up or the Timberwolves giving up or anything like that. I really felt like it was just like the Thunder were that much better than it was the Timberwolves just having one foot out the door of the series. That's how I felt rewatching it.

I am going to do something that I did not intend on doing certainly a few days ago to certainly as of maybe even 24 hours ago I would have never suspected that I would be doing this but I am actually going to quote

Magic Johnson Oh Yeah and then just attribute it to myself and sure You may not know this but Magic Johnson has one of the

most profound Twitter accounts in the world. He's always, he's always profound. And he tweeted something that I felt maybe I should have tweeted. Me and Magic were on the same page. Is it about the Princess Bride? It is not.

He said, I want to apologize to the Oklahoma City Thunder for underestimating them and not thinking they were ready to compete for a championship. Am I Magic Johnson? You're Magic Johnson.

I think I'm Magic Johnson. I think you just have to copy and paste that from your account. And then write Dash Magic Johnson slash Chris Vernon. And me. Yeah. And me. Yes. Yes.

I agree with magic. I think you have to. I think you have to now. And look, it appears as if the history of the NBA is being a, Every round, they are crumbling it up and throwing it in the trash, and I am the dummy, because they don't have playoff scars. They have playoff paper cuts. And it appears as if they were wildly unnecessary, certainly for them to mow down their Western Conference Finals opponent.

And, you know, it's so weird when this happens, it does make you think back. And it's like, well, then what do we think about the Lakers? what do we think about the warriors? And I was kind of left with last night as you see the grand exposure of every weakness take place with Minnesota, right? Here's a team that can expose every weakness. And it is a little like, like we always talk about if you watch fights, styles make fights.

And it feels like the guy that came in who's a wrestler, but then he just went up against this like striker. and the guy just knocked his ass out, right? He's like, we don't even get to get on the mat. Like, he just knocked me out. And, you know, they played these teams where Minnesota had been built prior to. It's like, Yokic is the guy in the West. That's the team in the West.

And so how are we going to be able to build, like Tim Connolly, the same guy that built Minnesota is the one that built Denver. So he's, you know he's doing that with Denver and. mind as they are the reigning champions, right? And it comes to pass. They draw Denver that is the team that they have to beat. And then they do it. And it's like they had Kat, they had Gobert, and they had size, and they were going to be able to deal with this. And then you fast forward a year and it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, that team is equipped with Denver in mind is the best team, right? Like that's why this works so well. And that's why the whole styles makes fight things.

And they punished these small teams in the first round. Like they didn't have anything up there. So Randall's killing people. And Gobert is killing people. And then they got to Oklahoma City. And it's like, oh, well, well, no, this is not the right. Like our advantages that we present are no longer advantages against this team. In fact, they are what are.

advantages were against other opponents are now our massive weaknesses. Gobert does nothing. Oh, Randall does nothing. He sent the Lakers home. I know. He ended Luca and LeBron's season single-handedly. And he can't even be on the floor against the Thunder.

And even against Golden State, you know. But they don't have bigs. They did run into two teams that we've talked all season about. Like, is it going to be a problem that they literally don't have like some over 6-10 that can play basketball. Well, and then they could not punish them for being bigger and more physical. Like, you don't remember the time

where they were, it just felt like they were getting every rebound against the Thunder because it never happened. No. Unless you want to say the one throwaway game three, right? Which was wild because that was an absolute dominant game. I felt differently after watching the game three, I felt differently about the series. And then two games later, you're like, oh, that was just

just an outlier. Well, honestly, what's crazy is I always tell you that many times when you're a fan, the one that you remember is not the deciding one. And this followed suit because I've covered a lot of series like this. And I think if you're Minnesota fans, they're always going to think about four. they're going to think about four four's the one we got 20 something out from de vincenzo we got 20 something out of Alexander Walker nothing we we won every single statistical category

and we couldn't get a stop we got it to three crowds going crazy and jela williams hit another three to push it back up like that's the one where they're going to go you become delusional when you're a fan and you think it would have all been different if right this is not it would have all been different if we would have gotten four but after four it's almost like I don't even I'm not if I'm a Minnesota fan

I'm never even got to think about five that was just a let go of the rope right but I'm also like this I think people don't respect what a successful basketball season and NBA team has had to lose in the conference finals. I agree with you. You had an extremely successful season. You were one of the last four teams remaining. Only one team gets to raise the banner.

That's right. And so many things have to break right that it's like, celebrate this. I know it feels bad. I know it ended bad. But this is a great. great Minnesota Chimberwool season.

It really is. Of course it is. I'm not just saying that as a Knicks fan. You get to two conference finals in a row and your best player is 24 years old.

You're ahead of schedule, bro. I did, and again, I rewatch this. And I don't mean to be flipping about rewatching stuff. Like,

I follow everything. I read everything. Like, I take this job very seriously, right? I have expertise when it comes to NBA basketball. But rewatching it,

I was impressed by just how Anthony Edwards in the first quarter was like, yeah, whatever happening in game forward, that's not going to happen again. Right. He's like, but I'm going to get to the rim. In that first quarter, he was just like, double me, blitz me. I don't care who's under there. I'm getting there. And he did.

He willed his way there. It just wasn't enough. And then all those kickouts, they're not going down on the road. I know. They weren't going down. I mean, Jade McDaniels. is wide open, bro. What do you want?

Over and over. We talked about this, you know, this was when we talked about how, you know, the team that sent them home. It's like, okay, bro, if Derek Jones Jr. is going to make every corner three, then you're going to lose. Okay, we lose.

And you make an adjustment, and then PJ Washington makes every corner three. You're like, all right, like. But that's how it felt. And it's like, this stuff can come down to it, and it's like, you get a total. they got so deflated by just not being able to do dick. They scored nine.

I was thinking about watching the game today. It was like nine to 12 after like five minutes. And I was like, this is how many points that Tim will score in the whole first quarter last game. Well, and the other thing is, Gildes Alexander on the other end, just absolutely positively brilliant,

like the whole way through. just like 31, 8, and 5 in a conference finals, when you know they want to make it, like the same way Halliburton got shut down tonight. He's so consistent. He ain't doing that with this dude. Brunce is so consistent. There's no bad SGA game. There's like sometimes there's C pluses, sometimes they're A pluses,

but there's no Ds or Fs. And that's what that's what you've seen. With these two guys, and interestingly enough, they've both been to the conference finals two years in a row. Halliburton and Edwards, where it's like, up and down. I don't have the answer tonight. You know what I'm saying? I'll have the answer next time, but I don't have the answer tonight. Like, this is what it is.

And that just does not happen with this guy. He is just, oh, my God. I think Yolkich, we got to have mentioned Yolkis with that too. Of course, of course. And Yonis belongs in that, too. Like some guys, they're going to get you 20. Sometimes more efficient than others. Sometimes prettier than others.

But it's consistent. Right. And this guy just put up an unbelievable Western Conference Finals where when you, that's, we talk about superstars. And obviously there was that discussion about Halliburton post game four. The superstar is the guy that everybody in the gym knows. that's the guy we got to slow down tonight. Yeah.

And he still... You call it the whiteboard guy. He still does it. But I will say, I will say, and the next time we talk will be Monday nights, and perhaps we'll have the finals matchup by that point, right? We will, actually, whether it's after a game seven or a game six. I will say the Pacers would make a much better finals opponent just from like a basketball perspective.

You think so. I want the Knicks to be there. I just think there's something about when you talk about the Thunder, what do you talk about? Defense and forcing turnovers, right?

And when you talk about the Pacers, you talk about offense and not turning the ball over. Can we say this, though, tonight's game, the one that you were at a master square garden, made me feel worse

about the finals matchup. Either way. Because you clearly feel worse about Indiana after watching them have their worst performance ever. And then on the other side, you're like, I don't know if the Knicks could hold up against that Thunder team. Right? Where it's like, they're just coming in waves. Whereas in Indiana, like, here's all I'll say. The next chance would be what they did tonight to Indiana.

which is we're playing you half-court basketball, bro. We're running a play and you're running a play and we can do this free throw stuff and we're playing dead ball basketball. But what we're not going to do is getting some kind of track meet with your ass. And that is, and honestly, nobody's been able to do it because they turn the ball over too much

and it's going to turn into a track to meet no matter what. But like the trick is, much like Indiana, like Oklahoma City does not want to play a play, a ton of half-core basketball. When Denver got them in games, it was transition stuff and then playing half-core basketball, them setting up that stupid zone

they kept running all the time. That was the only time, you know, Oklahoma City looked like they had real chinks in the arm. It's just hard to adjust to. Yeah. You know, it's just like, what are we doing now? I will say this. One thing I wanted to say before we leave,

the playoffs in the conference finals have been missing something that I'm so used to that I love so much about NBA basketball in the playoffs. Real animosity, beefs, double technicals, pushing, back and forth. This guy doesn't like that guy, and you can obviously tell. Like, I'm so used to it. It's just like a fixed variable. It's just like, oh, by the way, if we get to a game six, everyone hates each other,

and you know this guy hates that guy, and you know they're going to give a little extra, and you know the rest are going to have to take control of the game early on. Like, this has been very ethical, cordial basketball in these two conference finals. Okay. Just say it. We miss Draymond. I miss Dreymond. I miss Dante Divencenzzo.

I miss Jolene B pissing people off. Matherin would have been our chance it feels like, right? He's like the crash out. He's the one who's done it. He's the crash out, loose cannon. And even in the Detroit series, like when it got to around game four, game five, there's a little like double tech here and there or something. Yeah, yeah.

And they would cut to, you know, beef stew on the bench. But like, I expected this Pacer's Nick series there to be one flare-up between Precious Achua and Miles Turner. I want something. And Aaron Gordon got hot and had heated. A little bit. But like the playoffs have been pretty much void of the. And again, like, I don't root for violence and don't condone it, blah, blah, blah,

whatever I'm supposed to say in 2025. But I like it. I like it. I like it when a guy gets kicked out of the game. I like it. someone pushes somebody else. I like it when the team has to all get in a big group and pretend like they're going to fight even though we all know they're not going to fight.

I like that stuff. I want it. It was Gordon Harden. Like that was the Tizzy. It was actually Denver and the Clipper. I got it. No, I got it. At the end of the half at half court. That was so like whatever my son called me. It was like this crazy thing happened during the game and I was like and I watched it back and I was like, bro,

this is nothing. I miss it. I want it. I want it. And I feel like with all four of these teams that we have actually three of these things we have left. We're not going to get it. No, there's no true crash-out guys. Yeah, there's no guy. Mathen would be the closest.

He did get into it with Janus after the game. Yeah, yeah, he's... The most beef we've had is between Tyrese Halliburton's dad and Janice and Tentacoupo, both of which are no longer allowed to go to basketball games. Yeah, they're not like hot-headed guys. Yeah, I miss it. I like that. Who's really got a hot-head left?

But, like, you play the same team. five times in row with these kind of stakes, you expect flare-ups to happen. It's just not happening. Again, like, I'm not supposed to root for it, but I like that part. I like that part of post-postage basketball.

And it adds so much more juice to it. Yeah. And it makes you hate the other team a lot more. Yeah. Yeah, no, there's a place for the Pat Bebs and the Dylan Brooks's and the Kremonts of the world.

Yes. It makes series more fun. I, I guess, knee-smith and Brunson sometimes like bump into each other and then Brunson fakes a foul and looks at the ref. Like that's the closest we got. Seriously. That's the closest we got.

Well, So what are you going to do for game six? I'm going to find that guy Will who messed up the tick-tac-toe thing and I'm going to buy him a flight. No, will you go to, well, you try to watch it at your house? Will you try to go to a bar? Will you try to find buddies to watch it with? How do you maneuver this? I like watching big games by myself at my house.

I take notes. You know what I mean? Yeah, I sit there in the room by myself at my house and I take notes. And if the Knicks are losing, I try not to interact with the rest of my family because it's not going to be good if I do it. Understood. It's going to do it for tonight's show. I hope that we're getting to talk about a game seven on Monday night. That is for sure.

Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez. Thank you to Tucker as always. And Jacoby. I'll talk to you next week. Must be 21 and over in present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 over and present in D.C. Got a gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. Call 1-88-88-789-7777 or visit CCPPG.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit MDGamblinghelp.org in Maryland.

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