The Mismatch - Can the Pacers Repeat Their Defensive Dominance? Plus, KD’s Future and More Knicks Dysfunction.

Episode Date: June 13, 2025

Verno and Jacoby discuss the exciting Game 3 that saw the Pacers go up 2-1 on the Thunder. They praise Rick Carlisle’s game plan and the defense versus SGA before discussing the near-perfect performances from the entire Pacers roster, expectations for Game 4, and whether fans on either side should be concerned about their team. Next, Jacoby shares his disappointment with how the Knicks' head coach search is going, and the guys debate whether a Kevin Durant trade would really move the needle anymore. (0:00) Welcome to The Mismatch!(0:25) Pacers Take Game 3: 116-107 (IND 2-1)(32:28) Expect this Series To Go 7 Games?!(36:09) Game 4 Preview: Thunder [-6] vs. Pacers(48:02) What Are The Knicks Doing?!(1:01:23) Where's Kevin Durant Playing Next Season?(1:08:39) Ready To Bet on The Pacers Yet? Leave us a message on our Mismatch voicemail line! [phone] Visit creditkarma.com or download the app today. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Chris Vernon and David JacobyProducers: Jessie Lopez and Tucker TashjianSocial: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Miss Matchup, Chris Vernon. And join me as he does every week from The Ringer.com is Dave Jacoby. Jacoby. What's happening to, Berno? We got a series. Yeah, we do. Two-one Pacers. All you wanted was six games.

That's all you asked for, Berneau. And we got that, no matter what, hell or high water, we are going to see a game six in Indiana. By virtue of the Indiana Pacers winning last night's game three, 116 to 107, We have now had 24 hours to digest what has taken place in this series. In fact, we've got a long time between all of these games. At least there is a game on Friday night. But I was listening to Rick Carlisle's media availability today. And he was saying, this feels a lot longer than three games.

And I think you and I would both agree with that. He's like, it feels a lot longer, but there's only three games that have taken place. And if this thing plays out, he said, there's 18 days allotted for this. He goes, now, take into consideration. Our last series was 13 days. And so this one has the extra time between it. But, you know, we're at least getting a Wednesday and then a Friday game with Indiana. But anyways.

This episode is presented by Intuit Credit Karma. Navigate the world of credit cards with Credit Karma's tailored recommendations. It's suitable for anyone interested in taking control of their financial journey with cutting edge technology. Start at credit karma.com to find cards that fit your financial lifestyle. Credit karma, finding the right card for you. We've had 24 hours to digest it. What were you left thinking about the most from game three? I rewatched again this morning.

and I really keyed in on, again, something Rick Carlisle said after game two. And he said it so complimentary. He's like, well, S.J. has 34 getting on the plane going back to Indiana. I thought to myself, that's interesting, you know, because he's had 10 state games at that point of 30 points or more. Right. And when I rewatched, I really watched how the Pacers defended him. and man, it was a master class. SGA all year long has dictated the terms

of how things happen on the basketball court, home and away against all opponents. And that flipped in game three with the Pacers. There were so many double teams that they gave him, picking him up full court, and the way they doubled him, I thought, was really, really smart. They're like, where does he make his hay in the mid-range? So we're going to try to stay in front of him.

him. He's not a great three-point shooter, so you can give him a little extra space, and he wants to hesitate, get you to lurch forward, get past you, then stop, pull back, and hit the mid-range, and they would bring a second defender late. When he would rise up oftentimes, at least like six times, there'd be two pacer's in his space rising up with him and contending those shots. And we'll talk about game four and a bit, because I think there'll be an adjustment there, but I thought the defense they played on SGA was really, really, really good. And I thought Carlisle saying he already has 34 before he gets on the plane.

Looking back, he was like, whatever he said to the team before the game, he's like, this motherfucker's not getting 30 points tonight. Well, you know, it's like, he's not getting 30 tonight. Yeah, every once in a while he'll let you know that he has a very keen awareness of everything that is going on with the conversation going on, because I was listening to, as I mentioned, the, the press conference today. And he does a lot of,

you know, look, there's a fine line between poor-mouthing and being just humble and effusive with praise, right, to the other team. And there are times where he's like, look, he's like, I don't want to talk about anything in the future.

And he starts talking like a coach. He's like, they started out 16 to 7. He's like in our arena. He's like, and then we had a lead in the third quarter. Next thing you know, you're down five. He's like, this team is unbelievable. And he's going on and on about how great Oklahoma City is. And then he leads to, and this is what you don't see coaches do. He goes, look, guys. And I can hear him saying this in the locker room because

he's saying this at a press conference with all of the media and international media. He said, we're going to be the underdog in every game. He goes, we were 10.5 point underdogs. He said the lie in games one and two. He goes, we were five and a half point underdogs in game three. And we're going to be six and a half point underdogs in game four. He's sitting there giving out the line and I'm like, oh, and he's like, he said anything less than a total grit mindset.

and we don't have a chance, right? And so then, of course, they asked Calliburton about it as he's the next to the podium. And they're like, you guys have played, and we talked about this on Monday's pod, that this team has gotten better as these series have gone on, right? And a lot of that is a credit to Carlisle for sure. Obviously, the players get the most credit for being able to execute whatever he is putting out there. But Halliburton said, that's Coach Carlisle, right? Like the reason we have not let down and the reason we have continued to have that edge is because, and he goes,

and we have talked a lot about 2011. He said, he's told me a lot of stories about 2011. That's obviously the very famous Dirt series. He said he's also talked to me about the ones that he's lost and they've come up short. And so he goes, we've got a group of guys and he goes with me and he mentioned James Johnson and he mentioned Siakum. He's like, they'd have to be leaders in this. And I don't know. Like it's one of those things where I listen to it and he was talking about if we play as hard as we possibly can, the rest will take care of itself.

And it's one of those deals where I'm listening to it. And I'm like, I'm starting to really believe this guy. You know what I mean? Like this like this locker room has got this ability. to, like, I know everybody says now's not the time to let down. We haven't done anything, whatever. But I got to be honest, after listening to it all, I was like, man, I'll be surprised if they don't come out like hellfire in game four.

But let's continue with game three first, right? You talked about the defense. Watching back on the highlights, there was a great article that was put up by John Schumann on NBA.com, and he did a film study deal, right, where he extract the clips. So a lot of them are like Nie Smith going around screens and how that wrecked something. In the next series, I mean, Kat can't set a screen

but he just went over every single screen. They talked about there's a lot of Turner. Turner had just this unbelievably massive defensive impact on this game. And so one of the things that was mentioned in there is something that we did not realize because we're recording

you know on Monday after that has taken place It said in the article that, and maybe this should inform why they were so awesome defensively last night. Game two was their worst defensive performance of the entire postseason. Interesting. They had given up a hundred and twenty-three points on 97 possessions. Right. So that was their worst defensive.

performance that they had had. And so to wit, the biggest adjustments are going to be made off of a tape where everything, you know, went as bad as it's gone the entire postseason for you. And so not only are you going to theoretically make big changes in terms of what you're trying to do defensively, it also gives the opportunity for the offense to now be like, what is this, right? Like, obviously, the team that loses is always going to make the more important adjustments in order to get back on track.

But it really did mess them up last night. It really did mess up Oklahoma City, and especially in that fourth quarter where it was just, I mean, it was a defensive master class. Nothing was easy for Oklahoma City. I mean, there's so much to discuss, but you mentioned the fourth quarter. I want to talk about that. There were opportunities in there for the thunder. for the thunder down the stretch.

Like, J. Dubb hit this crazy left foot, right hand, floating to his left runner with like six minutes left, made it 100 to 101, with six minutes left. And from there, it was just one-sided. And the pacer's down the stretch turnovers. Like Turner had a terrible turnover. And the Indiana goes, I mean, the Thunder go the other way. They have opportunity after opportunity.

They get to the free throw line. They miss, as like a J-Dub missed one, case on Wallace missed one. Like, I did feel like this was a great defensive performance from the Pacers, but there was a lot left to be desired in the last five minutes. If I'm a Thunder fan,

I'm looking at the last five minutes, being like, what happened, guys? Right. Like, what happened? Well, and you also know they are going to make the adjustments. Maybe most importantly, evidently, they screened much less. with Halliburton's guy in the

to the screener whoever Halliburton was guarding would screen for SGA and I think the number was like 14 times a game in the first two couple games and they only did it like five times last night and so you know that now the same way that they're trying to get Halliburton freed up on one side best believe Shea Gilles Alexander's going to end up

with more airspace at game four than he had in game three because you only get to do that once, right? That's why these are truly great teams with truly exceptional players is because in many cases, you only get to do that stuff once, right? Now I have seen it. Now I have my counter ready for that. So you better come up with something new, right? And I want to go back to the SGA Rick Carlisleau thing because he said that.

and I think he mapped out a plan to minimize SGA. And I think it had to do with the double teams that I mentioned earlier, picking him up, you know, full court, just making him work. I think he was like, we're going to wear this guy out. And another thing they did is they made him work on defense. Like they scored on SGA. It wasn't as blatant as like you see the Knicks do where it's like you pointed somebody that come up and screen.

But they made him work on defense over and over. They doubled him on offense. They picked him up full court. And before the series started, and again, I don't regret anything I said, but I was talking about the defense that the different guys and looks that the Thunder could throw at Halliburton. You know, Caruso, Dorr and Wallace, and like these top tier defenders that they could throw at Halliburton.

But what I saw in game three was the flip side of that. Like Ben Shepard's coming in and working his ass off in front of him. Needsmith is in front of him. Even Halliburton is deeing up in front of him. him. Nemhard is all over him. And I even Pascal Seacom switched on him in the fourth quarter. He did a little like pump big of the three point line, didn't bite for it. He did his little like a jerky hezzy, go back, go forward again thing.

And Seacom played it well. And then he did what he always rises up from the midrange. And Seaccom was just contesting that thing. Like he didn't block it. Right. But it was like, when the two of them rose up, I was sure the ball was not going in. And I think that Carlisle did a great job of coaching against the MVP of the league and making every single second that he was on the floor difficult for him. And he got fouled in the fourth quarter and he was lying on his back. And he wasn't hurt, but he didn't want to get up. You know what I mean?

But he's just lying there on his back. He's just like, guys, give me a second. It's interesting you bring up the pressure thing because there was a stat in the film study deal saying that the pacer's in the playoffs. So it's one thing to have that as a game plan. It's another thing for your guys to be intensely comfortable at doing that. There's not a lot of teams that have guys that are comfortable guarding 94 feet from the basket, right? And so you have to have the personnel.

But it said the pacer's have applied pressure on the ball more than they were number one in the entire postseason at doing that. And as you can imagine, it's in an effort to speed this all up, right? We're trying to speed it up both ways. But that they apply pressure. I think second was the only team that was even close was Orlando, which stands to reason. They were a great defensive team too, right?

But you want to make them slower to get into their offense. And then on the flip side, you see that speed that Indiana comes with. And you will, I do think that when you were talking about how he didn't want to get up at the end of the game, there is a still shot that I don't know if you saw where it's late in the game. And Caruso and S.J., like there's four of them with their hands on their knees. Oh, check out did the same thing. Checkout foul to end up on his back and he didn't want to get up either. Like they were. No, they were, they were worn out, bro.

They were worn out. They were worn out. And that's the thing that. Like I said, after that J-Dub, amazing. it was 100 to 101. And from there it was a very lopsided game. A lot of that, I think, had to do with fatigue. It's just hard to play the Pacers' pace for whatever, 42 minutes.

In those last six minutes, you're not going to look the same. Now, I will say, it did make me think a lot differently about the way this thing could play out for one reason. So you and I both kind of felt the way, the same way about game two, right? Thought Oklahoma City played very well. thought that was a very bad representation of Indiana in game two. And so they're going to get game bridge. They're going to get the fans. They're going to get everything.

We weren't surprised at what took place in game three. Now, four is where this is where this is going to turn. This game is going to turn the tide of the series either way, right? Because obviously, Indiana has the opportunity to just be able to win home games to win the series. but the reason last night felt different to me is because I've been on here saying, I have been treating the Pacers like the underdog they are and saying, well, then there needs to be kind of some extenuating circumstances here, right? You can't be losing the three point line.

And they won it by seven in game one, seven three-pointers, which is 21 points, and only won the game by one on a great shot by Halliburton at the very end, or they stole the game. And then they played them even from the three point line in game two. And I'm like, that's got to be a big win for the Pacers. And then it wasn't last night. And I said the same thing about the free throw line. Oklahoma City is a team that always loses free throw disparity.

That can't be a win for Oklahoma City. And then that didn't matter last night. It's like, okay, so this is just heads up. Like, you know what I mean? Like, this isn't one team has to do these, have these, out-of-body experiences in order to beat the other team because I'm looking through the, you know, you're looking through the stats and it's like, okay, this wasn't that far off from being kind of heads up.

The fact that they played them that club, I thought you were going to be able to look at turnovers and the three-point line. And I tell you who won the game, right? Nope. No. I mean, the three-point line last night was 10 for 22 from Oklahoma City, which, which it's a good percentage, but 22. That's like 1990 something.

What do we do? And then nine for 27 for the Pacers. It was just like, it wasn't even a factor, really. And, dude, the Celtics take more than that. If you combine the teams. No, combine them. Yeah, yeah. They took, they took 60-something

threes in a game. And I think one thing that we said, and I'm not like a, I don't pat my own back when I make correct predictions because I'm wrong. like 90% of the time. But one of the things that it's, you mentioned on the last show,

and it's worth mentioning again, it is such a trope, but sometimes tropes and cliches are there for a reason that role players play better at home. And what happened in game two? Aaron, you know, Aaron Wiggins and Alice Caruso

just shot the, shot, you know, they shut the lights out. Of course. And then what happened in game three? T.J. McConnell is the best player on the floor in the second quarter.

And he's just, like, he's just lightning in a bottle. And then, and Ben Matherin has the game of his life, right? And I think it is... He was unbelievable. He was literally unbelievable.

He was literally unbelievable. You know who I mentioned, I said, one of my best, do you remember a couple of years? I think it was the bubble year. You remember the Lonnie Walker game? Oh, yeah. And it was like, Lonnie Walker.

I mean, obviously Matherin has had more success than Lottie Walker. That being said, it's one of those nights where it's like, bro who let them like who was the guy right like a team with lebron and ad had lonie walker go off okay did you see the clip of bill oh where he predicted it he predicted it he predicted

he said that he's going to score 27 points and 22 minutes and then he did exactly that like sometimes he pisses me off so much because I'm so frustrated by how good he is you know what I mean and I'm not talking about ben math you're talking about bill he he had it I'm so mad at that guy sometimes sometimes he's like he has like creative

ideas. I'm just like, fuck that guy. It was, I mean. I'm so mad. They're so good. And look, then the other thing is that now the turnover thing has helped. They have not given points up off of turnovers to Oklahoma City like everybody else gets murdered doing.

They have done, even in game two, the game they got throttled. I think they gave up four, like fast break points in the game. And it has been for a month. Every time we're watching Oklahoma City, you texting be pick six, pick six. I haven't gotten one pick six.

It was a halber and pick six. I got it. But last night, Oklahoma City was the one with it was three had six 13 live ball turnovers last night. Oklahoma City did. Like that is the exact reverse of what has taken place this entire time. They're not the ones that get turned over like that. They're the ones that do it to you. And, That was unbelievable. In fact, 13 live ball turnovers, that was the second most. That's the most they've had in the postseason because Oklahoma City, that's not their brand. They don't do that.

It's the second most they've had in 101 games they have played this year. So nobody does, like that is a rarity for them to, I mean, it was just a block and steel barrage by Indiana last night. I thought, I think it's so easy to watch the game and be like, well, T.J. McConnell and Ben Matherin, like, they scored this, they did this. But really, I thought it was the Pacer's defense. Yeah. And night and day different from game two and game three. Absolutely night and day. To force Shea to have six turnovers and to force him, I went and looked at the, I like having like a day to digest it. Yep. I went and looked at his like shot chart. The first quarter, he's two for six and both those shots are at the rim that he made. The second quarter, he's three to five. Everything's close to the rim that he made.

In the second half, he's three for six in the third quarter, one three and two mid-range. And then the fourth quarter, he takes three shots, and it's just one mid-range. And then he has six turnovers. I think if you look at the box score, you're like, oh, he played well. I think the same thing with Chet.

You look at Chet. They're like, oh, he played well. Chet played well in the first quarter. And he had opportunities down the stretch. he had a, not a wide open, but he had a, you know, he had a pretty open three point opportunity at the end of the game. If it goes in, it's a completely different ballgame. Same thing with Lou Dort. Lou Dort was butt naked open for a three.

And he was shooting well on the evening and missed it. Like, it, I was really impressed. Well, they turned them into an ISO team. They turned them into an ISO team, right? That's why when you're looking at the, when you look at said box score, they scored 37 baskets. 16 assists, right? Part of that is that applying that early pressure and making that first pass hard. And then you saw as the game went on, it's like, all right, you take a turn, I take a turn,

maybe one pass. But I mean, they took those guys out of it. And as we talked about with the role player deal, look, you had 20 plus from Gildes-Alexander, Chet, and Jalen Williams. nobody else on that team outside. Adorp made those threes. He's the only guy in double digits, right? None of those other guys were able to have, you know, the other good offensive game,

whether that's Kaysan Wallace, whether that's Caruso, whether that's Hardinstein. No, Aaron Wiggins, who was a hero. They tried Wiggins. He played nine minutes and had zero. They tried them. Yeah. He just didn't have it.

Isaiah Joe came in and knocked down a couple. He did. He did. I do. Remember on Monday on this podcast, I was sitting in this seat and I said, who on the Pacers played well? Right. And the answer was nobody.

Right. And now I'm sitting here being like, who on the Pacers, bench, starters didn't play their role at it, at 90 out of 100? Even Obitopin, who did, like, if the box score is not like the biggest contributions, he was huge in that game.

Well, and I know you love plus minus, but look. I don't. I don't want to hear it. Obie Toppin plus 18, Ben Matherin plus 16, T.J. McConnell plus 12. I mean, they were winning with those guys on the floor. That's all that. And there was a defensive possession. Like watching it twice, what I really walked away from.

Because when I watched it the first time, I was like, man, Ben Matherin, T. J. McConnell, they're amazing. Watching the second time, I was much. more impressed with their defense, their preparation, and coach Carlisle. There was a possession. I think Dork had it in the court. No, SGA is on the baseline.

He's about taking mid-range. They send two to them. And so now you've got two guys committed to the ball, 13 feet from the basket on the right baseline. And he swings. And while he swings it to the right wing, Halliburton, like Mike Singletary before the snap, is pointing it where everyone has to rotate to.

they scramble rotate the thunder swing it over to I believe Dort and Toppin has to he's about to shoot he's already hit three for three Topin has to go out and close out and you expect him to do like the run by close out

and end up in the stands but he stays low and then Dort upbakes dribbles to his left and you remember this play and then he tries to shoot and Topin blocks it out of bounds and it was just like

they doubled SGA and they made the rotations perfectly they were communicating brilliantly. They were so disciplined. And like, Obie Tapping, he is known for his athleticism, and now he can shoot threes. He is not known for, like, his defense.

Right. And he played great defense. I loved that defensive performance. I mean, all of them, all of them off that bench. It was just shot of adrenaline, which is exactly what they needed, right? Exactly what they needed.

And it is funny when you're eventually that play, ball leaves the screen. As it does, every time Lou Dort shoots a ball. I've never seen anybody shoot the ball that damn high. It leaves my screen. And I'm like, where the fuck is the ball? And then it drops in.

I think they would have like four more possessions a game if he didn't shoot it that high. It takes time. It feels like, you know, like when you would see like somebody in practice and they're holding up the broom to, you know, to mimic Webby, Like this is what it's going to be like Or like they used to do it with Yao Ming This is what it's going to be like to play against Yao Ming It feels like Lou Dort shoots over a broom

You know, every time he practices Three Pointers or something It's amazing Again like I think we're all rightfully celebrating The Pacers because they all played well They were all prepped They out coached outplayed the Thunder

But this game was close and it was good And the Thunder had leads This was not like, I felt game two was like, oh, the Thunder are a better team. The Pacers didn't play well. The Thunder played well. This is the way it played out. Game three was like there was a lot of opportunities and it was a lead changes. Thunder were up nine at one point.

Like, I felt like the Pacers played their best game and kind of got away with it. This was great basketball. Oh, yeah. Great. And, you know, so much of the conversation that we even talked about on Monday because I went through. usage rates of different guys. And I said, look, there's a goofy narrative going on that's treating Halliburton like he's a superstar that is in much more control of their destiny than he actually is. The usage rate is actually much, much lower than his star peers.

And yet, because they need to fill time, does Halliburton need to step up, whatever? We've got to, we've got to be honest. It was a much more aggressive Tyrese Halliburton. It was. It was. That's what happened. He was not going to be an innocent bystander to that one. And I mean, but it was right off the bat.

He was just involved in a way where he was making that thing go. And mega impressive game. I mean, damn near, I had a triple double in the game last night. And you could see him getting into the lane and making things happen. And you could see just that pace of that team just going crazy. which is exactly what they talk about, right? Pace and energy, pace and energy, pace and energy. Because playing against that set up defense for Oklahoma City is absolute hell. I mean, you've got to make your bones by getting the game moving up and down and trying to cross-match.

And, I mean, one of the tenants of the Pacers is they want to set the first screen at 20 on the clock, right? You think about most teams are coming in and it's like 16 when they cross half court, right? Really, it's six seconds at least before they're even like getting into whatever they're about to get into. They want to, like they don't call plays. So it's all free flowing. And they want to set that first screen at 20 and then play off of that. And now you're defending it this way. Then we've got this to go to.

And you've got to have a bunch of smart players to be able to pull this off guys that know, you know, exactly what to do dependent upon what the defense is trying to do. but it's that speed at which you have to do it because otherwise it just gets bogged down and I mean you get bogged down against Oklahoma City and you have no chance. There was a couple possessions that I just felt like the paces were making decisions very, very quickly.

One comes to mind where Nemhardt got the ball on a swing from Halliburton and before he caught the ball you could tell he knew exactly what he was going to do. jab step to left, drive to the right. And he did it like the second the ball was in his hands. He was executing his move. And I just felt like that's the only way you can play against this defense.

Only way. Is you just, you just, you have to be fast. No. You have to have them moving. You can't be like the Knicks or the, you know, the wolves and get the ball to your guy and have him survey the scene, you know, dribble between his legs a couple times, and then try to get past his man. You have to beat them to the punch.

And I thought they did that really well in game three. And I also want to say this, though, if I'm the Thunder or a Thunder fan, I'm not that concerned. Really? I'm not that concerned. Oh, I would be. I would be because I would feel like two got it back on track and one was a miracle.

If I'm a fan of that team, that's how I'd feel. I would feel like one was a miracle, two got it back on track, and then I'd watch three and be like, what? Hold on. Because that was a decisive win. It was. I disagree. Oh, come on.

I disagree. They mauled them. And the other thing I'd be worried about. Wait, no, game three? Yes. Last night was a decisive win for the Pacers? They mauled them in the fourth quarter. And they've mauled them in fourth quarter.

far. Like, if you go look at the way these games have broken down, game two fourth quarters. The first quarter, Oklahoma City is won by a big margin. The second quarter, Oklahoma City is won by a smaller margin. Okay. Third quarter, again, Oklahoma City's won. Like, they've won all of those quarters. And two of them, I think, by 20 plus, they're like minus 23 and fourth quarters now. You know what I mean? Small sample size. This is where the games decided, though. That's what I would be worried about. It'd be like, oh, my God. Like, look, when you win, when you win a finals game by, you know, when you're a whatever, four and a half, five and a half point underdog, and you win that game by nine last night,

and you scored 40 points in the third quarter. Like, you came out of halftime, and they scored, let's see, 50, what is it, 52? They scored 40 going into halftime, right? They scored 40 in the second quarter. And then they came out and again, back on track. They're down by five. Or you're up by five if you're Oklahoma City going into the fourth. Oh, not just that is J. Dub hits a three at the end of the third.

We were up by five and we lost by nine? I don't know, man. I don't know. I was watching the game. I don't know. You and I, you and I are fans of either team. I just want a long series. I'm ready for a game seven.

At the end of the, at the end of the third quarter, when J-Jub hit that three, I was like, oh, man. I will say this, you'll get a game seven if Oklahoma City wins game four. This series is coming down.

I think we're headed. We're headed to seven. No, I think we're headed to seven. No way. We're headed to see. No, look, if Oklahoma City loses four, the Pacers are winning the title. This game.

It'll be up three-one. What do you want me? to say to that. You know they're not. That's what I'm telling you. So that's what I'm saying. The only chance at your seven game series is if Oklahoma City wins tomorrow night. Because I do not believe we're getting a seventh game.

If they, uh, I'm not going to rule anything out, you know, because what we've seen this entire playoffs has just been wild. This has been a great playoffs as a whole. This finals has been fantastic. Well, and this could play out like Denver. This could play out just like Denver. Yes. It could, right?

It's patterned that way. Which was, four was a war that Denver will regret. Right? And this could be the same thing, right? We could look back and it, it could be a hard-fought game. And OKC won six.

What, they won at seven. No, I mean, they won game six, right? No, no, no. They won five. It was five and then lost six and seven. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then Gordon gets hurt and then one seven. Sure.

the I felt like it was interesting. The start of the game, it was obvious that Pacers were like, Pascal Seahakum, we're going to get you going. We're not worried about Halliburton. He's going to be himself. Like, we're going to get you going. And then he kind of disappeared. Same thing with Chet.

Chet's first quarter was like a masterpiece. It was. I logged his shots too. Matt, first quarter, four for five. Second quarter, O for two, third quarter, one for three, fourth quarter one for four. I think you could look at the box score and be like, I thought Jade's up.

He also got he also got tomato chested five times by Miles Turner. Like just tomato chest. Get off me. Get to the stanchion. You know what I mean? Sometimes. Turner played big. Turner was the block on chat.

I mean, and the recoveries. And Turner was awesome. I mean, there was a point where I was like, let's just, let's just put Topin, Topin and Siakman in there. Like Turner's worthless. You know, he was worthless. Turner was blitzed and showing on every screen.

He was bringing a late double. He was recovering and blocking shots. He had five blocks in the game. And no telling how many he altered. He was awesome. I feel like every pacer played their role to perfection. Don't you feel like all these guys, both teams need people cheering for them. And maybe that.

Yes, I mean, and maybe. But maybe. Where was that wiggins? This is what I'm going to say. I feel like all these guys need people cheering really hard for them. And the Pacers, a little less so because they're a little older because they've had the exploit. Yeah, they've had their exploits on the road. But like that Oklahoma City team, I swear, they, how.

Just say it. Say the word. No, how different they have looked. You go back to that Denver series and how many times are we coming like, what the hell? How is it how is the same team that we just watched dominate somebody by 40 or 50 losing by 30 or 40? Minnesota Game 3 was insane. Who are you? I was like, I didn't even watch like the last five minutes.

It was like a 35 point game. Who are you? Now, I will say this on the game forefront. Look, we talked about the job they did on SGA. This is the MVP of the league. This is a guy that Carlisle went over the top praising for. very good reason. Dagnall's a fantastic coach as well.

I will be shocked if SGA does not have a massive game for. I think the same way that Carlisle spent two days being like, how do we slow down SGA? Dagonal's spending today being like, how do I unlock SGA? All right. They're probably going to play that, you know, because the losing team always makes more adjustments. It's just like human nature.

And I think that Carlisle will understand that based on his experience. but I think Dagonald's first priority is getting the MVP to look like the MVP. And whether that's getting him off the ball and sending screens for him or having, you know, orchestrated plays. Because it's all dependent upon, like, this is the downside sometimes of having a guy. And I mentioned this at the very beginning of the playoffs where Rasillo had done this podcast years ago that is always stuck in my head. and he was talking about, I think it was in reference to Harden at the time, but he was talking about teams that have guys, because he's brought it up with Luca in the past and other players, teams that have guys that have these extremely high usage rates,

that the level of six, that they never win at the highest level because so much is riding on one guy. And the better the competition gets and the better the coaching gets on the other side, it makes it much harder. And what we find is teams that are more equal opportunity rather than being heliocentric are the ones that are able to navigate through the adjustments of the playoffs. But this is the challenge. I mean, look, this is, he just had one of the great seasons in NBA history for a guard.

He won the MVP. He just had 10 straight games scoring 30. So they're heliocentric. Kim having a 30 plus usage rate has worked out to. incredible results up until last even in the playoffs even in the playoffs

up until last night right and then it's like oh god like if he's not awesome it's really it's going to be hard for them

but the trick has been he's always awesome you know you don't have to worry about if he's not awesome but how many times if we said that maybe once

maybe what I feel like the Pacers and Carlisle allocated defensive resources to to make that the case. And I thought that J. Dub played well enough that perhaps he

wouldn't. I felt like Chet's second half was very disappointing. And I felt like Lou Dort started hot, missed a huge naked three at the end. And you didn't get the Wiggins game. You didn't get the Caruso game. They got nothing off the bench. Just nothing off the bench. And

let's talk about game four of it and things you expect to see. I expect SGA to have a big game. I mean, like the same way that you, that all the conversation surrounded Halliburton and his importance to the Pacers, even though the conversation was weird because his importance to the Pacer's success is not as grand as his peers and the way they functioned is much different than his peers teams.

But they clearly found a way to be able to get Tyrese Halliburton going much more than they did in games one and two. And he was a different player last night than he was in the play. first two games. I'm sorry to interrupt, but it didn't feel overt. No, no, no. The way they were trying to get Seacum going

felt like overt. They're like, we're going to get him the ball in the first five possessions three times. Halliburton didn't take a shot until midway through the first quarter. And even one of them was just goofy and it felt like,

all right, I'm just kind of taking this so that you respect me. Just to do it. I mean, right? He's like, I've heard the same thing that you guys have heard for the last 48 hours.

So guess what? I'll be more aggressive and take a shot. But I do think that that's, look, as I meant, Oklahoma City's awesome. Deagnol's awesome. They're going to find a way to be able to get SGA back to his spot or play off of him getting that extra attention because they just handled that all poorly last night. It was like it was like the first time when we saw, you know, you remember when we saw Anthony Edwards and they started running two at him and they were making him C2 constantly and then they were just collapsing everything.

thing every time he even picked his head up to look to drive. And they were like, yeah, to hell with that. And it was, they're just forming like these walls. It's like, okay, now I'm just, I can't do this. So I'm just going to go stand over here. Like sometimes these guys can be reduced to not being and not having the level of activity that their team requires. That's going to be the difference.

What they're going to do is they're going to say, okay, if SGA is getting all of this attention, if you're going to be bringing this guy, if you're going to be bringing this guy, Not only is he going to know how to counter it, the rest of his teammates are going to know how to counter it, right? If Miles Turner comes over on this double, boom, we're doing this. If this happens, we're doing this. If this happens, right, they're going to get the tape and they're going to say, oh, we're going to smoke. Try this again. We're going to, all right?

Again, you only get to do it once. You only get to do it once with a great player. At this level of basketball, it's chess. It's rocks just paper. Carlisle, it's like, if you throw scissors twice in a row, like, I'm going to throw a rock. Right. You know what I mean? And I just feel like I feel like Carlisle is a step ahead too.

Like you might even see like the zone that we saw a little bit in game two. I don't think he's going to say this works in game three, so let's run it back. We're good guys. Oh no. I don't think that's happening defensively against SGA. I think he's preparing to adjust the adjustment. And it might not be in the first half, but he's got something. He knows that Daginald is going to.

make an adjustment. And I think you'll see a lot more, first of all, I think you'll see less Halliburton minutes. He was tired. He was tired at the end of the game. I think he just played too much. And I think that you'll see more Halliburton off the wall. I did say this on Monday. Oh, I mean, more, more, I meant more at less SGA minutes. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. But I, I thought you'd see more Halliburton and Turner. But I mean, their bench was so unbelievable. It didn't have to happen. I, I forgot about Halliburton at one point in the game. I was like, man, these guys are cooking. I was like, He was not even the game, but SGA was white. He was just

washed at the end of that game. And I think he played too much. And I think that you'll see him more off the ball. I think you'll see less of him bringing the ball up against pressure. And I think that tag and all will just make the game, quote, unquote, easier for him by making it

less just all about him. Well, also, you could see, you could also see when they put, we have talked about, like, who are you going to tar? Like, the other there's nobody to target. They knew that Hartenstein wants to be close to the goal to be able to defend the rim.

And so that you could see they were finding it. They were finding it, okay, this guy wants to be in drop coverage. So we're going to try to find our areas within this. And so you may have to just go back to the whole, we're going to pass off everything against this team. Because, I mean, they are five small. And again, that's the great chess match of this all is like, is your size and advantage or is your size used against you sometimes? And obviously if Turner's going

to play that way rather than the way he played early in the series, I mean, geez, Louise, because he was, I mean, and they both, they, they gang rebounded. They were great. They were great. They were great. They were great. All the energy stuff and all the hustle stuff. That was them. And that is the MO of Oklahoma City. They play. that way and did it better. They were the ones with active hands. They were the ones with live ball turnovers.

Do you know what? There's a couple things I want to mention. This blew my mind. Watching the game to the finish. OKC stopped fouling. The shot clock was off. They did not foul. I think Seacom got like a layup or something.

There's like five seconds left. They try to throw the ball to the wing and Tyre's Halliburton pokes it out of bounds. They've waved the white flag. like that's where the energy level and the defensive intensity was at. They've waived the white flag. They're up by the nine or something.

And Tyrese Halliborne won't even let them pass the ball to the wing, pokes it out of bounds. I was just like, that is unnecessary. That's like the guy that shoots it after the whistle and then you block it, or you hit it up out of the rim. What are we doing? That's such a message.

You know what I mean? It's just like, we're playing 48 minutes of intense defense. I think that you'll see less minutes from SGA and I also think that in game four I really expect the thunder to win I'm leaning heavy thunder in game four I just don't think that

you can match that defensive intensity those bench production it just felt like everything went right for the Pacers and they were down going into the fourth quarter. That would be the... Like, everything went right for the page. That would be the ebb and flow of the series if we end up with a long series, which I think we both were very hopeful for at the beginning of this. I'll say this.

One adjustment. I'll say this. I'm unsure of what the result will be tomorrow night, but I'll bet you this. I won't bet you. I would be surprised if either of the team's runs out. out on the other. I think this is a war that either team will look back at the end of the series and this will be the one that haunts them. Game four will be the most pivotal one that will actually, when we look back, because that's what happened in the Denver series. We look back and go,

if Denver would have won four, then it's a different world, right? Because now they get to, they would That six would have been a closeout game. Like, I do feel like it's insanely pivotal for either of the teams and that we will look back. And the Thunder will either say we won the series because we took care of business and responded in game four or we lost the series because we weren't able to, you know, actually, you know what? They'll always think of game one in fairness.

That's what I was in the next position where it's like, God, man, If we just have any one, a couple adjustments I want to see. Number one, one great adjustment they made is they took the, I think they took the trophy off the floor. Remember the virtual reality trophy? That thing's gone. Great adjustment. One adjustment I want to see for game four,

and you know I'm an idiot at my core, so I'm going to say things like this. It bothers me to Daggett all chews gum during the game. I'm sorry. It just bothers me. It just bothers me. I can't fathom. I remember watching Michael Jordan, like,

score 40 while chewing gums in the entire game. I can't go on a jog and chew gum. It's just like, I can't imagine chewing gum and coaching in the finals as Dagonal. I can't imagine it. That's an adjustment that I want to see that I think they'll bring the Thunder to a win in game four. No gum for Dagonal. Totally fair.

I'm not going to disagree with you. All right. Professional basketball analysis. Can we talk about, well, so would you be against the Knicks asking the Thunder to talk to Mark Dagnold? I mean, yeah, I mean, in his contract, there's a no gum. Clause. No trade closet and no gum claws. Look, there might just be waiting for the final stand

to ask for permission to talk to them. Do you know how many times I checked to make sure that this is not NBA Centel? I mean, every time. I'm like, this cannot be real. This can't be real. I mean, they're making a mockery of a coaching. I mean, this, it's so crazy.

And then Tibbs, of course, has that heartfelt letter that he puts in all of like the media in New York. which is, I mean, I can only imagine being in your shoes. It makes it infinitely worse because you're like, why did we get rid of this guy? Like, this is the day before he got fired. I was right here in this room and I said to you, you don't fire tips after the best season in 25 years.

And another thing about this that really bothers me is the Knicks were a clown show for quite some time. And I felt like World Wide West, I don't really know personally. We know each other. We say hi when we see each other. And I just like him. He's a very likable guy. It's like part of his whole persona.

And Leon Rose, who's a former CAA agent, like when they brought those guys in, there was just a shift in sort of like decision making. Like I love the OG trade. They brought in Devenchenzo, like Randall. They built this team last year that was great. They somehow made a better team this year.

And went further. I got to be honest with you. And it just felt like they were trending in the right direction. I have been around those guys. does not feel like Leon West thing to me at all. I wonder who it could be then. I wonder who it could be. I'm totally starting to buy into that.

I'm totally starting to buy into, you know, there's this, the Collin Cowher theory that I've heard Nick Wright mentioned, which is, I've never really thought about before. But his whole theory is that they, like,

the guy that, you know, inherited the NICT, and like that was his thing and he was always, you know, that was his toy and whatever. And then all of a sudden, you didn't really hear about him. And then Nick started to like act like a real organization. And the next started to get really good and whatever. And so Coward's theory, which I actually think that probably I, the more I think about it,

the more I think there's something to it. He's like, and guess what happened? He built the sphere. That became the thing that he cared about now. And he was away. And then the Knicks got awesome. And Timothy Chalibay and the Jenner's and everybody else back in the front row. It's like, oh, let me jump back into the Knicks.

And it's like, then according to reports, he was in like the player exit interviews and stuff. Well, I'm convinced. There's a Bagley report today about how like they didn't practice end game stuff. And like, yeah, I really am convinced at this point that they fired Tim's because players were complaining in those, those player interviews. I think that player after player went in there and complained about tips. But sometimes tough love is what you need. Sometimes you need a kick in the butt not a pat in the back. And that's what Tom Thiggs is.

And Dolan was trying to do right by the players in his mind. But you have to have a plan, bro. Like here's the deal. Jacoby, this is what I always think about because I have covered now, God, I guess at least six press conferences for new coaches over the years. All I think about is, I don't know. know who the hell is going to take the podium when they do this. But the message it sends to your team, your players, and your fan base when you stand up there, you can never convince somebody

that you got that this is the guy you wanted. Right? Like the best thing is to have confidence in your organization. Like we we appreciate everything Tom did for the organization. We have this guy. We think this guy can help us take the next step as an organization. organization as team. And it's like, bro, what pick is whoever has to walk up on that Godforsaken podium going to be? Yeah, because they get introed. Like, he gets introed.

So what does the guy say who's going to intro the new head coach? You're the 10th pick. What does he say? 10th. Oh, no chance. They're going to get the 10th. I mean, another thing I want to say is this, they've gone full clown show with this. And I have it.

When I was a producer, I had like a philosophy that was called get the no, right? I was like, I don't know, will Charles Barkley host the show? I'm like, I don't know, but like, let's get the no. You know what I mean? Let's ask and get the no. Let's shoot for the stars. Maybe we'll end up at the moon.

But you can't do it this way in this situation publicly. You know what I mean? And you know who's not telling Shams who they can't talk to? The Nix. Every time they call a front office, the front office says no, hangs at the phone. They laugh to each other. and they're like, all right, who's going to text Shams?

Did you hear him? Who's going to do it? I don't know if you saw this clip that was going around. Did you hear Shams went on McAfee today and said, I am told that these teams are answering the phone and not saying no. They're saying F no. And I'm like, what is the? How can this be? It's insane.

I mean, it's obviously like you and your lovely wife, Elena, being like, we should have another child. and be like, well, Jacoby's got a baby. Let's call him up and ask if we can have that one. Like, honestly, it's like the same thing. Dude. It's just like, what are you doing? No, it's just no. No, you can't have Eme Udoka.

No, you can't have him. Why? Why? Why? Why would they think that this is going to be a yes? We'll give you a second round pick in 2027? Do you know how hard I laughed last night? And you said it was, you know,

you have to check this stuff for Cental. I laughed so damn hard when it came across. I honestly thought it was a joke when it said they had reached out to Billy Donovan. And I'm like, is he better than Tim? I'm like, hold on. Hold on. Like, that feels like one of those like, surely, surely they'll let their coach go. Like, what do they care? They never win shit. Like, surely we can get Billy Donovan. And even the Bulls are like, nope, can't have our coach. Like, Wait, what? We can't even get Billy Donovan.

Well, it's the day before he got fired, I said to you, I said, you know, because I love this team. And I was like, don't fire Tibbs because if there was someone out there, if Spolstra had just left the heat and you could upgrade easily and it was just like a direct path to firing taste that were placing it. But I said into this microphone, I was like, well, who's going to be the coach then? and the idea that this is the coaching search is a mess, but I know how it's going to end.

There's only one person that would make Knicks fans happy, that would set the city on fire. It would be the perfect hire for the New York Knicks. You're going to say Van Gundy? Tracy Morgan. It's got to be Tracy Morgan. He'll puke all over the floor during the game.

He'll just sit there wearing an awesome outfit. Do you want to hear something? It's got to be a clown show. If it's going to be a clown show, get Morgan. get John McEnroe, get Ben Stiller, just turn it over to them. Do you want to hear something crazy?

And look, you're a New Yorker now, so you may just be like, yeah, everybody knows that, Chris. But I read like a couple of months ago that Tracy Morgan bought the Bronx Zoo, and I was like, what? Did not know that. You didn't know that?

You can look it up. I think, Tray, I'm serious. I read that I would I know. Why would you do that? I don't know. It said that Tracy Morgan bought the briar.

I'm going to Google it right now while we're on the show. I'm doing it. I'm doing it. Tracy Morgan owns the Bronx Zoo. Yeah, first thing that comes up. No, Tracy Morgan does not actually run the Bronzo. Okay, okay.

Yeah. Okay. I was like, I probably would have heard that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Broxsoo, overrated, by the way. Not a great hang. Okay, there is actually a real. okay it's just comedically

he's okay so the way it became a actual news story which there is an actual news story about it is because he went on Jimmy Kimball and said his settlement money from his accident that he bought okay he was just being funny I was like okay I will tell you one thing about Tracy Morgan

what he likes to do is buy extremely expensive vehicles normally corvettes and just drive around the city and have people look at him. I mean, I can't tell you, at least 20 times I've been walking down the street and saw like some Bugatti

that's like, you know, chrome. And it's just Tracy Morgan by himself driving down the street. Like, it's happened to be so many times. I think he's not going anywhere. I think he's just like, I'm going to get in this $1 million vehicle, put the top down,

and just drive around and be Tracy Morgan. And God bless him. He's made an absolute fortune in between settlement money and between the being on 30 rock and wherever. Like, he's got a new show. coming out too.

It's actually plausible to me that he could have bought the thing if they were just selling it off. Oh, yeah. Plus, plus he was Brian Fellows. And Brian Fellows Animal Play. What else have?

Pete Davidson and the guy from weekend update, what's his name? Joe's. Michael Chee. The white guy, Colin Jones. Yeah. They bought a Staten Island Ferry just for like no reason. They're both from Staten Island. They just bought a Staten Island Fair. They're like, we own that now. Like, we'll take that.

So who do you want, honestly, for the Knicks? Are you now past Carrie? Tom Tibido. I'm sorry, groppling it. You're holding up the boom box outside his house. Come back. Come back. We're still paying him.

No, $30 million. He's under contract, right? It doesn't be technically still have the job. I just think, you're under contract. Let me just go ahead and clear this up. I just think Leon and Wes are so smart. Like, it is so streetwise. right that that just does not feel like an operation that they're in charge of for them to be that

I can't imagine they're sitting in an office to be like all right well just call call up and see if they'll let us have Quinn or call up and let us see if we'll have email they know bro they know the game they've been around basketball for the last 30 years they've been agents they've been involved with players they've been involved with coaches now they've been in charge of team, they know the way this stuff works. They're not goofies. And this is the actions of goofies. This feels like the owner calling around being like, hey, can we have your coach?

Can we have your coach? Or putting them up to it. Because it's just, that's just, if there's anything we've learned about them and I have been around both of them over the years, the last thing on earth you would call Leon Rose is a goofy, right? The first time I ever met him, he. was the agent for Jonas Valenthunus

at the time. This is when he was still an agent. Huh? He's a businessman. Yeah, he's also the kind of guy that does not, like, he just, he's never come off

as someone to be trifled with. And he's also not, like somebody that would not understand the way the NBA works and that it's goofy to call Houston about Imeo doka. He knows. Yes, and I also feel like this,

and I don't like it too philosophical here, But this is like a fair criticism of New Yorkers is like even the Nick's slogan this year is like New York or nowhere is that we just think this is the greatest place in the planet. And that if we call anybody, they'll beg and plead to get here because this is the best job with the best team and the best fans and the best city. And it's such it is such an honor to be asked to coach the New York Knicks. We'll pay you more. You'll be in the best city in the world. And this is the best opportunity. And who would ever say no to that?

And why wouldn't they? And I think that's an ignorance that New Yorkers have that some people just don't mess with New York City. It's not for everybody. You know what I mean? This job is not for everybody. And you know who it's great for? Tom Tibido and his personality and his work ethic and his history.

And some of the names are just like, I don't know, man. If you ask me who I want to coach, I'm just like, I don't know, man. But just end this nonsense. Malone is at least a cultural fit. But it just feels like it's like Tom Tibido. Tom Tebito. It's Tom Tebito. It's Tom Tebito. That's what Maloney is. It's just like a smaller version of Tom Tibino.

It's the same guy. Tom. Tom Tobito. That's who he is. All right. Let's talk about the Duran thing very quickly. Because I don't want to get into too much off-season talk, but this feels like they are just, everybody keeps going on the air saying something that this could happen sooner than

later. Rich Climman and Durant are kind of going over it. Then teams want to, there's this sentiment that like we're two weeks away from the draft and that we may have a Durant trade before the draft, right, to settle. Like, because it might include draft picks in this year's draft. You might include draft big to go forward or whatever.

Am I crazy that like in any other year, I would be just so all about like a Durant trade. And now, even with the. teams that I see. It'd be fun to watch them on all of those teams, but am I nuts to think that I'm not sure how much it moves the needle, especially given how much you would, again, I will see what the return is. It might just be future assets and players that are not, you know, essential to what you're doing. But do you think Durant is a massive needle mover for a team in the year of our Lord

2025. I'm glad you finished it with that because obviously his running OKC legendary MVP like it's just like oh he's like top

and he's still awesome. And you talk about needle moving he goes to the Warriors and he walks down LeBron James in the finals for two years in a row. Like he's the best player in the court in the NBA finals

and LeBron James whether he's at the peak of his powers or close to his peak or whatever, we can argue, who cares? And then he goes to Brooklyn, I'm thinking, oh, championship. Honestly, I'm thinking he took OKC, the finals, Clay Game 6, unfortunate. The Nets are now like going to win a championship. And we all know what happened there. And then when he goes to Phoenix, my dumbass is like, oh, championship.

They went to the finals. They just added Durant. You got booked there. Like, they're going to win a championship. So when you say he was a needle mover for two years. And with two coaches that had both won titles. So I don't know. So when you ask me if he's a needle mover,

my opinion on that has changed dramatically the last time he tried to move the needle. Because when he went to the Warriors, he spiked that needle. Spiked it. And then with the Nets, it doesn't always feel like his fault. Right. They got injured.

And with the sons, the sons, it doesn't feel like. his fault either. Because you look at his numbers. He still has great individual numbers. Elite. Like 50, 49. You know what I mean? So why? So you ask me why I don't feel like he's

a needle mover? It's not because of the individual's performance is because his historical move from team to team the last two times. And it's just a it's like now we both think. Kevin Durant's one of the greatest scorers, if not the best score we've ever seen. I mean, and he is still awesome. He is. not the full version of Kevin Durant in the past.

And it's going to be interesting to see whether on any of those teams, kind of where he fits in, this may be the very best time. This might be the biggest needle move that we have seen since the Warriors because it's not going to be about him. You look at all of those teams and it's like, it's not. It's rocket spurs, heat, wolves, nicks. It's not necessarily going to be about him, right? Like, I think we are going to move into a, I don't think Kevin Durant is going to be the best player on a championship team anymore. But now it's Kevin Durant as an ancillary part, you know, another part of a championship team.

Then that's why it actually could, right? If he's playing alongside Anthony Edwards, oh, wow, right? Like now you're getting the Kevin Durant with even less attention because there's a better player on the team that you have to gameplay for more is now Who can shoot three Zand drive? That's what I'm saying.

I'm in this weird spot. Kevin Durant is your best player doesn't move the needle for me in that way. Kevin Durant is your second or third best player. That may actually change the game. And we're kind of to that point. The report that the sons want back what they gave for Kevin Durant is insane. Okay.

I mean, I don't even remember where that comes from. Who says that? Who says that? It's like buying a car for $50,000 and then driving around for four years and be like, I want $50,000 for this car. So that's not how this works. You know, it's just not how those works. I, um, what team do you want to see in on?

Like, just for funsies? Um, um, are we just going with the ones that are mentioned? Yeah. The Spurs thing's fun. I would like to see him on the Knicks and then have Cat go to the Sons. That is fun. You got the Cat Booker thing, the old Kentucky deal.

It's a place for you to move to. I mean, that's fun. And yeah, Katie finally being in New York. And Tracy Morgan will be the head coach. The Knicks would be fun. Like that would be fun to me. The Knicks would be super fun. But obvious.

That would be fun. Yes. But, I mean, I, I, The Spurs is fun. I mean, obviously, given what they've got. My thing with the Spurs is like, Victory Women Yama, newly minted Shal and Monk, assume health.

I don't think that they're ready for a championship. Maybe not. You know what I mean? But they are going to have them, but if you add him and you've still got Fox, and you have the number two pick. But I like them to draft the number two pick, whoever they pick, Harper, most likely, or whatever.

you've got two young guys you've got Fox running the show you know what make the first round exit next year second round exit the year after that go to the finals the year after that like I just think they need a little runway to success that a win now move like a 37 year old Kevin Durant is just not rooted

for the growth of that franchise net you think they need to get some scars yes yes before we end just say it Say the F word. Say the F word. Say the F word. Is it a little fetusy with those 18 in the fourth?

In the 18. It was a little fetusy. It was a little fetus. It was a little phoency. Sorry, I sorry to Jay-Z for losing a billion dollars on his thunder and five bet. I mean, I know he's got it, but it always pisses me off when these guys make a fat. You never know, you never know if he's got it. You know, I thought Justin Bieber was loaded too. and he looks like they say he has a scooter broad money.

I tried to bull you into picking the Pacers in the series. Oh yeah, this is Pacers. And I'm going to ask you again. Come on. I'm asking you again. We're doing this. We're doing this. Two to go.

The Pacers are going to win the Larry. Go. Pacers are going to win the series. Yeah, two to go. Two to go. I feel good. I'm feeling great. And of course, I'm going to feel like,

cramp lighter, but... I'm still on the thunder. I'm still on the thunder. Everybody is. Everybody is. It did feel like... I saw what I wanted to see them. Times of change. I saw what I wanted to see. I saw what I wanted to see.

Game three? Yes. I was just really... That defensive performance to me was just... It was really impressive. I'm so, like, buried on the frigging Oklahoma City anyway. What does it matter? I picked everybody again. I'm part committed. I'm part committed. Yeah.

In January. Pacers in six. There you go. In front of Mark Jackson. Oh, did you want one thing I got to mention. I just have to mention this as a New Yorker, as a Lance Stevens' greatest supporter. When they showed him and MetaWorld Peace having a chat

going into one of the breaks, I was just like, oh my God, what are those two talking about? To be a fly on the wall on what that conversation is about, I, that would, we should put mics on them in game four. They should, you know what? We should replace Doris and RJ and Breene

with Lance Stevenson and Middleweight. Maybe it's like a no, no, no, sorry, like a like a Peyton Manning alt cast on ESPN. ABC can be Doris and RJ and Brean. And then ESPN should be Lance Stevenson and Meta World Peace. Just just giving their thoughts on the game.

I would for sure watch that. I'm going to write an email. Was it Jimmy.pataro at gmail.com? Is that how it works? I don't know. I never worked there. Jimmy is it actual ESPN addresses or are they on Disney? No, it's ESPN addresses.

When I got mine in 2000, I just wanted to give every single person I saw my email address. That was the coolest thing in the world. I just wanted to say, hey, nice to meet you. Do you want my email address? At ESPN.com. No. No. They locked me out of town.

The second they gave me the phone call. They didn't even let me. I mean the office. They shipped my shit to my house. Are you serious? They shipped your stuff. Oh, yeah. You didn't get to go and do the, like, the sad box up by stuff moment.

No, no, no, no. And then they walk you out with security and then you had to hand over your key. It's much more dignified to not do that and just have your stuff shift, to be honest. Oh, it's the worst thing ever. I've had that happen before. Oh, no. Yeah, well, and also you got to remember. And security, like, you know the security got well, too.

And he's just like, oh, man, I got to stand here and watch this dude box. The worst is when I, you know, when you worked in radio, I mean, especially when, like, you would work in those ones where it was a, it's always a Friday. And I'd get there on like a Friday morning and somebody's walking out with some big box. And they'd be like, yep, it's my time. It'd be like some older DJ walking out with them. It was like the saddest damn thing ever. Because you're working in a, right, like the way it works, the radio clusters. So there's like six stations in the deal.

And, you know, then the ratings come in and then the revenue comes in. And then like, and so. And the soft jazz guy. The old DJs who's been there for 20-something years is walking out. And you're, and, you know, you're the sports radio guy who still got his job. The younger producer is now replacing him. It's like, always someone who's in the building. It's never like, oh, we got this superstar from, you know, from St. Louis.

It's always like, no, it's the guy who was right there working with him the whole time is now taking over. that's not fun. But I mean, I still feel like they shouldn't have shipped your stuff. I appreciate it. All right.

I appreciate it. There's some stuff missing. I wrote an email. I was like, do you guys, are a gray pair of shoes? I wrote my guy and I was like, I'm missing a pair of shoes.

Like, is it sure? It's not like in my locker or something? And I found it later. And I found it later. And I found those shoes later, like in my storage unit. I was like,

oh, shit. Shouldn't have wrote that email. Well, at least it makes it feel like something else going to run from you. All right. Thank you to our producer Jesse Lopez, as always. Thank you our video producer Tucker and Jacoby. I'll talk to you next week.

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