The Mismatch - Celtics Roll Pacers, the Dominant Dallas Defense, and Some Timberwolves Concerns

Episode Date: May 24, 2024

Verno and KOC discuss the absolute stomping of the Pacers by the Celtics as Boston takes a 2-0 series lead (01:00). They debate whether the Pacers stand any chance of coming back without Tyrese Haliburton, who left Game 2 with an injury, and discuss Jaylen Brown’s performance after he was snubbed for an All-NBA team. Moving on, they discuss how the Mavs defense was able to restrain Anthony Edwards to take Game 1 (23:48). They discuss the Timberwolves’ defensive strategies and whether Chris Finch needs to make some adjustments, as well as Rudy Gobert’s overall impact. Also, the guys share their reaction to the All-NBA teams, J. B. Bickerstaff’s firing, and whether Trajan Langdon can bring some much-needed stability to the Pistons' front office (48:26). Got a question for Verno and KOC? Send them an email at [e-mail]! Or you can send the guys a tweet @ChrisVernonShow and @KevinOConnorNBA! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Social: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? Justin Vera here from group chat on The Ringer NBA show, and we want you to come hang out with us for a live podcast recording on Tuesday, June 18th at 8 p.m. Bigwas, Rob Mahoney, and I are kicking off the Ringer residency at the L. Ray Theater in Los Angeles. Get your tickets now at the ringer.com slash events while they last. Hope to see you there. Welcome to The Mishmatch. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me on this Thursday night from The Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.k.a. Kevin O. Bomber. Kevin O. Conflict. Kevin O. Kavanaugh. Kevin O. Kavanaugh. Kevin O'Brien. Kevin O'Berner. How are you doing tonight, man?

I'm good. We are recording. There is about a minute and a half left as we are starting this recording in the Pacer Celtics game two of the Eastern Conference Finals. Series over as well. Halliburton injury. It's over. It's over. Well, you know, when they just announced on the broadcast that it is a hamstring issue with Tyrese Halliburton, my antennas went all the way up as we've talked about these soft tissue injuries for years and years. That's what he had earlier in the season, too. Usually bad news. Usually bad news in terms of recovery time and ability to make it back on the court.

This was a thumping that took place tonight by the Boston Celtics after the Pacers absolutely should have won the first game of the series. They let Boston off the hook, ended up getting beat in overtime, and now they are in a severe uphill climb position being down to 0. to the Celtics, and I know that we can look back at past series. I know that Indiana has not lost a home game in the playoffs, but we know that their best player just had to leave this game with a hamstring injury, of which caused him to miss 10 games earlier this season. Would have cost him a lot more games, if not for the 65 game rule, which we will get to it a little bit, but he was clearly not himself and was hobbled

when he did come back. knowing that this is the same kind of deal, it obviously creates an almost a possible situation for Indiana. And tonight, even with Halliburton in the game prior to injury, this one looked like a game between one team that won 64 games this year and one team that won 47 games this year. The first game did not look like that. This one did.

Yeah, I mean, the first game looked like the series between the team Indiana was in the final 41 games, which was after they acquired Pascal Seacob, they had them for exactly half of the season. And they had a plus three point net net rating in the second half of the year, which was ninth best in the NBA. So they were significantly better with Seacum over the second half of the year. And it felt like in that game one, their pace, like they're the quickest offense in the league was like a shock to the Celtics defense after going against the Cavs, the 20th quickest pace, the heat, the 26th, like near the bottom of the league, according to Impredictibles' time of possession stat.

But game two wasn't like that. Game two, obviously Halliburton was much worse than he was in game one, even though he blew it at the end of game one with careless turnovers, bad shots, dribbling the ball off his knee. I mean, Deanna had the poor inbound play the end of game one, just throwing the game away. And game one, he was actually pretty good for the most part. Game two, he was a complete non-factor. Offensively, didn't do a lot other than pass the ball.

And defensively, the Celtics just went in him over and over and over and over and over again. And Jalen Brown ends up with 40 plus. Boston was just significantly the better team. And they're going to sweep the series, I think, as well, if Halliburton's out. Well, and their defense was just so much better. I thought that they got tricked into exactly what we talked about in the Knicks series. When we came on the air and I told you, man, the Knicks, like, I get that they won this game. This is at the beginning of the series.

I was like, but you can't play these All-Star games against them where I know it's a lot easier. Much like what we talked about when the Knicks were playing against Philadelphia, this hard, grimy series, where, you know, ball comes off the rim and it's just the dog fights for everything. And then it's like, wow, this is fun. We're just running up and down the court and shooting threes and everybody's playing pace and space. And this is a lot easier on the body than everybody banging around and trying to get, you know, every offensive rebound and everything else. But I said, like, this is where they dwell.

This is what they want. this is what they're proficient at is flying up and down the court and playing this kind of basketball game. You still have to get stops and you can't just play the outscorum game because that gives Indiana a chance to beat anybody. They are offensively unbelievable. Really a good job by Boston to control rebounds, to get the. requisite stops that they needed. And also, Jalen Brown, you know, he's been the best player for the Celtics so far in this thing.

He had 26, 7, and 5, including the biggest shot of his life in game one of this series. And then after the news, which caused a tremendous amount of rancor amongst the Celtics faithful, their coach, and Jalen Brown himself, I'm sure that he was not. not named to one of the all NBA teams. It was a story. It was something that Missoula talked about before the game. They were obviously very disappointed in this because not only did he not make all NBA. He wasn't even close, really.

I know he was the next name listed, but the lowest point total for third team NBA, All NBA was Devin Booker. Devin Booker had 70 points. okay, when you tallied up his votes. Jaylen Brown had 50. So it wasn't like he was like right on the outside looking in. And so whether or not do you think Jaylen Brown should have been all NBA or not?

Or if the Celtics who had the 64 wins this year deserved to have two players on the all NBA team or not, big chip on his shoulder. He played like that guy. He's picking up Siakum. He's draining shots. He's going to the basket. I mean, he was and has been the best player on the floor for the Celtics in the first two games of this series.

And I was super impressed. He was awesome. I mean, he was sensational. We saw everything that Jaylen Brown has worked towards throughout his entire career, all the improvements, the handling, the creation, even some of the passes that he made as well. Like, he made some nice passes.

I thought in that third quarter on a couple, pick and roll with the small, small pick and roll with Derek White, locating him behind the arc. So I think Jaylen, he made all the right place. He, I believe, found Tatum in the corner, or I think it was White in the corner in that same exact sequence late in the third quarter. But he just made all the right plays offensively, obviously scored at will.

The stepback three-pointer he hit for his 40th point was nasty. And he was solid defensively as well. Granted Seacom still got some points. Brown picked up some steals. He was active. He looked like an all-NBA caliber player. And even if he wasn't named that, he is one of those guys who can look like that. And so I think for Boston, if Jalen Brown continues sustaining this, even as Tatum's been a little bit up and down, first half Tatum non-existent, shows up at halftime. He has an awesome second half. If Jalen Brown's giving you this, it increases their probability of beating Minnesota or Dallas next round, whether or not KP is

active, but I do still think that he had KP. Did you think he should have been All-MBA? No. I didn't vote him all-N-B-A. You didn't have been on-B-A. He was on, like, he would have been on my fourth team. You know what I mean? Like, there's so many good candidates this year. Yeah, the ones that were, like, right on the outside looking in of all-N-B-A teams,

in terms of the voting, at least, were he, Paul George, and Tyresexie. Three outstanding players who had great seasons. I mean, I think it speaks to the strength of the league right now that those three were on the outside looking in, because they all had great years. I'll tell you what, all three of them should have been there over Halliburton. Hmm. And over, I mean, and over Subonis, too, for that matter.

I'm a little surprised. Slow down. Okay, fine, but over Halliburton, you agree? Halliburton certainly got the 65 games under his belt, and I think he was awarded for the first part of the season. He certainly, he was not. I think there's a totally fair argument that says, bro, he was not all NBA for a good portion of the season.

He was not an all NBA caliber player for a large portion of the season. Not by his own fault. I mean, he was hurt, but he came back and played hobbled. and was just nowhere near that player post injury. And so, yeah, I mean, I think there's a fair argument, but I think that people gave him credit for what he was through the IST that took place and then for the first whole part of the season through the All-Star game. And I think that there is always going to be,

a heart tug. This affects money. It does. And everybody know it affects money. And everybody knows, I know. But it does. But you know that he came back

to try to get to the 65 games because of this very reason. So that he could make an all MBA because the amount of dollars difference is immense. Yeah, exactly. And I mean, and ultimately, you know,

voters have openly said that they will favor a guy who has that contract variable. So, I mean, ultimately, I think the NBA should remove that incentive, but that's a completely different discussion that we don't have done today. It very well may have played a role, and I think many people would think it did with Jalen Brown getting it last year, which then enabled Jalen Brown to be the highest paid player in the NBA, in terms of a contract extension at least. now that that number changes every year and a new player is that guy but because of when he got his all NBA last year he was able to sign an extension where the headline read highest contract

ever signed by an NBA player and that was a thing that was a narrative last year and so I don't think and you do wonder what if what if this is Jalen Brown's contract year then is he or extension Then is he all NBA instead of Halliburton? I mean, I know. There's no question that plays a role in the voting. Anyways, the point originally is Jalen Brown is absolutely awesome. He has showed up a lot in big games. The Celtics are now, though they are maligned a lot because we don't always see their best.

they're 10 and 2. They're 10 in the playoffs. I mean, they're 10 and two in the playoffs. You can only play who you have to play. Yeah, they're 10 and 2 in the playoffs. They're 74 and 20 on the season. They're having a spectacular year.

It is just a shame, though, that they have to go through the heat without Jimmy Butler, the Cavs with Doug Jared Allen, without Donovan Mitchell to finish the series. Now against the Pacers, perhaps without Tyree's Hallibor, to finish the entire series, that it's been these teams that are falling apart where they haven't been tested in months.

And that's what's going to make next round against Dallas or Minnesota so fascinating because with Dallas or Minnesota, we'll see how that series ends up developing. But it's possible, just like with Minnesota Denver going seven hard-fought games, and they come in, you know, game one, Anthony Edwards seems kind of tired, fatigued for Minnesota, where maybe Boston's facing a tired Dallas or Minnesota team in the finals, and that could work to Boston's advantage where they've had a cakewalk until the finals, in part because they had such dominant success. They earned the one seed.

I don't want to take that away from them. But from the west and the east side of things, that could be a great equalizer for the Celtics to actually win this whole thing if Timberwolves Mavericks goes deep. Because I don't think this Indiana Paco Cases series, I picked it in five. before the series. I'll change that to four without Halliburton if he's indeed out

for the rest of the series or limited like he was tonight. He was awful. Boston will have potentially a week of rest before the finals. That's crazy. And the idea is that they have not,

look, and I know that Boston fans can get upset with this, but the truth, everybody knows. It's just the reality. It's the reality. They haven't played anybody that has a chance of beating them.

Nobody. it's it's been an absolute cakewalk it's easier the Celtics have had an easier path to the finals than lebron james ever did in all of his years in the eastern conference well i'd have to go back and look at all of them i don't remember them all but but if you can go back if you want to or not but like regardless it is easy there's no question as these teams are currently constituted there's none that even have a chance not even not even close right and so we're just not getting to see the level of competition that we typically see in the playoffs. And that is because of the losses of players.

Now, again, this is like you can't blame them for who they're lined up to play in and he can't blame them for staying healthy, right? Like they are the ones that stayed healthy. The rest of these teams are all breaking down. No, that's not true. They don't have poor Zingis. I got you, but he's not. But he's not what?

He is not essential. Yes, he is. I disagree with you, Chris. I totally disagree. To beat these teams, he clearly isn't. Exactly. Not to beat Miami, Cleveland, or Indiana. He is essential to beat the top West teams.

That's what I say, but those teams lost players that it's essential for them to have them to even compete. Exactly. But I don't want to take away from Porzingis is essential. To win a title. To win a title, yes. I think that's what I'm getting at here. He is essential to win a title for Boston. But to get through Miami, Cleveland, and Indiana, clearly not.

Especially those teams being limited with essential guys also being out. So for the Celtics, like, it's almost really such a blessing. I know, you know, Woge reported today, the ESPN broadcast reported that Porzingis is still not practicing yet and still no timeline and all. that. But Woj did say earlier in the week that game four was possible for Porzingis, I think they're going to keep him on ice until the finals would be my bet. And we'll see what's going to happen is my prediction. Boston load managed Porzingis the entire year. They were very cautious with his minutes and when they would play him and give him nights off. That's exactly what's happening in these playoffs. What you're going to see, Boston sweeps Indiana

or gentleman sweep, and then Porzingis is going to start ramping up during that week, week and a half until the NBA finals begins the first week of June. That's what's going to happen, and he's going to be out there game one against the Mavericks or the Timberwolves, and he's going to be playing 20, 25 plus minutes, and he's going to look hopefully for Boston healthy. We'll see if he can sustain it, but it's a blessing in disguise that he's been able to miss now over a month in order to get fully healthy for all that really matters, and that's the NBA finals. Do you think it is absolutely impossible that Indiana could turn around to do exactly

what they did in the next series, which is everybody bury them, but we're looking up and we're doing a podcast when it's two to two. No, it's over. Boston's just better. And without Halliburton, man, like that changes the whole complexion of the way in which Boston defends you. Like Halliburton, I've criticized him plenty throughout this postseason for some of his, you know, lack of aggression. He wasn't aggressive tonight either. Yeah, no, he wasn't tonight. But like, I think with him, at least he's a playmaker. He's still a creator.

He is in this series 18 assists only three turnovers. Granted, one of those turnovers was absolutely horrific and down the stretch in the fourth quarter. But only three turn of only three. Oh, yeah. No, no. All three of them are him dribbling off his foot. Yeah, I just, so bad. I'm serious.

So bad, yeah. He dribbled off his foot three times. So sloppy. So sloppy. But still 18 assists to three turnovers. You know, if you, like, you want to look at it. There's three turnovers. Are you dribbling it off your own foot?

I can't, I still can't believe that game one, man. Indiana had that. I feel bad for the lone Pacers fan of my life. Matt Dollinger, my editor. He was so sad after the game. Look, I've been through those. There's a million playoff games that you just forget. And then there's some like that one.

You never heard of those. It haunts you forever. Yeah, I know. Because it changes the whole course of the series. If you leave Boston, let's say Halliburton came out of this game healthy, right? If you leave Boston one to one going back to Indiana where, like you said, you're undefeated in the playoffs right now with that crowd, with your team playing on offense the way they are, you feel like you got a chance. Absolutely.

Instead, you're going back and you're wondering, are we even going to even make it back to Boston? Because what are the chances? But again, we did do this against New York. Like you never know the way this stuff's going to play out. And in the New York series, guys started going down. I mean, guys were dropping like flies. So it can happen.

Here's the thing. Halliburton had 35 in that game three against the Knicks at home. He had 20 and, you know, six and seven or whatever it was in game four. He had two really good games. The Pacers played great in those two games with Halliburton playing really high-level basketball in those games. They don't have him. It's absolutely the whole series. I got you.

Let me just say, you never know, because we never would have thought, like, by the time we got through a game seven for the Knicks, we're watching, precious Chua. I love Andrew Nemhard. I love T.J. McConnell. just not worth two first round picks from the spurs, but I do love these Pacers role players. They need Halliburton to have any chance and that they need the best version of Halliburton to have any chance.

Don't you understand what I'm saying? I'm not saying you don't know what's going to happen on the Boston side. Yeah, I know, but the Knicks guys are playing 48 minutes a game. I got you, but you're always a twisted ankle away from your fate being different. Yeah, I know. Is what I'm saying. I know. Yeah, I just think the Celtics could still lose Tatum and still win the series.

Their depth stinks, too. I know you tried to convince me all year that it doesn't. It stinks. I mean, look, did you listen to my appearance on Bill Simmons this week after game one? Yeah. Bill was hammering for O'Shea Bressett to play this series and have some Tateum at the five, play some small ball with Berset out there. Luke Corneck goes down, Brissette comes out there, and he's flying around on defense,

rebound in the ball, cut into the basket, and he's a plus-8. in 12 minutes. Brissette was really good. I think the Celtics do have depth. It's just Missoula doesn't always utilize it properly. That'd be my argument, and I think that's also Bill's argument, that Boston does have some guys in their rotation that they can use, that they just don't always because Missoula tends to stick with the guys that he likes,

including Cornett as part of that rotation. That's partially because no poor Zingis is out there. He wants to keep the size, but I thought Brissette played outstanding in game two. He was good. It was good. Broad energy. That's what he does. Yeah.

I'm not, I'm not sold on a high level game, them being get away, them being able to get away with playing their bench guys. Because we've seen it earlier in this playoffs too, where the Pacers weren't pun. I mean, come on.

They're out there with, by the end of that game, they had Jaris Walker in the game. Like, they waved the white flag. Like, there was no, like, Miles Turner.

Like, they waved the white flag in the goalings. into the fourth quarter. I know, yeah. Early in the fourth quarter, their lineup was Isaiah Jackson, Doug McDermott, Obie Topp and Ben Shepard, Andrew Nemhard. And then they replaced Isaiah Jackson with Jalen Smith. And like you said, they never went back to their guys.

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All right, let's get to whoever the winner, we assume the Celtics, given that they are certainly in pole position right now, whoever the Celtics will play, which is the winner of Minnesota versus Dallas. game one of that series took place last night since we have last spoken and uh i got to tell you kev i uh i left that game thinking i think dallas could play a lot better than what they did i do think minnesota can play better than what they did but there was certainly a portion in the

first half where I was like, is Jaden McDaniels just going to make every three? Like, what is going on here? And it's going to take a radical change, in my opinion, on the way Minnesota plays in order for them to win the series. And by that, I mean, they turned that team into a team that is taking 49 threes. They turned Anthony Edwards into a guy that took 14, I think, of his 16 shots. from behind the arc and only scored one basket inside the three point line. They turned what is the bigger team into the smaller team. Somehow they got them to take 49 threes, which, by the way, they shot like high 30s percent from. I think the number was like 37 percent or something.

they outscore Dallas by 30-something points from the three-point line. Dallas only makes six threes in the whole game. And just the way that played out was so odd. And I almost thought, man, Dallas is going to make more threes than that going forward because that was a really bad three-point shooting night. And their ability to get in that middle space and kill it with points in the paint is something that I don't know is easily solvable. Meanwhile,

I'm not sure Minnesota is going to shoot like that again. So I felt a lot better about Dallas after that first game, which, of course, I should, considering they haven't won a game one in three years, since they played a series against a Clippers three years ago. I had that one chalked up as a Dallas loss. So the fact that it was a Dallas win, and just with the way the game played out, Minnesota has got to win the rebounding.

Got to. And they've got to be the bigger team. And so I don't know. I liked a lot of what Dallas did. I don't want to overreact because in the end it was a one bucket game. But I was pretty surprised with the way that one played out. The strange thing on the Minnesota side of things is they took 49 threes in the game, a playoff high of their 89 total shots. And so, like, they almost made themselves small because not only was it a playoff high, it was an entire season high.

Their high during the season was 46 for three-point attempts. And that was a game. They took 97 shots. Well, because then it's long rebounds, and now your size isn't as big a deal. Yes. Right. And I think that the key guy in all of this was Anthony Edwards, 12 three-point attempts of his 16 total shots. Anthony Edwards said after game won a bunch of things. He said we weren't aggressive enough coming out. We were flat. I don't totally agree with him on those things. But he also did say, I need to be more in an attacking mentality. I need to go more downhill. You're damn right you do. Like 12, three-pointers on 16 shots when you're Anthony Edwards, you need to be more attacking mentality. You need to go more downhill. You're damn right. You should do. Like 12, 3-pointers on 16 shots when you're Anthony Edwards, you need to be. You need to be. to get downhill, draw a second defender, try to get to the free throw line. You can't be taking 12-3-pointers and just, I thought at times he was catching the ball and stopping. Like the ball,

he was never making decisive decisions off to catch. He wasn't using his body and his frame to be decisive off the attack and try to get to the basket. He was surveying the floor, sometimes catching his breath because of his fatigue. He needs to be quicker. He needs to be more aggressive. at all starts with Anthony Edwards, who has not been as good recently in games. I don't know if he's hurt. I don't know if he's tired after playing longer than he ever has in his entire career,

but he needs to be better for the Minnesota Tim Wolves have any shot. He's going through it at this level, being the man for the first time. And he followed the same game playing. A lot of guys, he talked crazy. And so he got what's coming to him. He talked crazy.

I see, look, you know I've covered a team that this happened. to twice. John Morant, we're fine in the West. Dylan Brooks. I poke bears. Like,

you better be ready to back it up because this is a first time like all the memes were coming out last night. Everybody was b. Jordan. Because after game seven,

he said, I got Kyrie. Even Kyrie then said, hey, no disrespect. I love that he's a competitor like that. But of course,

that's motivation. Bro, he, You want to talk about poking a bear. Now he's, no wonder he's tired. He's chasing Kyrie like crazy all around the court. And Kyrie, I tweeted this out. That was an offensive masterpiece. And the way that played out at the end of the first half was so indicative.

That's a, what was that? I think that game's sitting on six, six or seven. Edwards has the horrendous turnover. Kyrie gets the ball, takes in the link of the court, another one and one. Now you're going, I mean, that flipped it. Now all of a sudden, at worst, you're up by what, like six or something at the end of the half. Now that felt like a real, like momentum play.

Kyrie has just scored his 24th point in the first half. So now they come out in the second half. He only had six in the second half, but Luca picked it up. He went crazy in the second half, including the 15 in the fourth quarter. And Luca was the best player on the floor for that entire fourth quarter. He took over the game. And this is where it's like, man, it's a lot to put on a 22-year-old. I got so tired of Reggie Miller talking about how tired Anthony Edwards was.

Like, to me, it was a little disrespectful in terms of, first he was like oh is Anthony Edwards grimacing so it's like is he hurt is he tired like bro somebody's got to put some respect on Dallas's name when it comes to this they've had I think the best defense since the trade deadline since they've added those guys they locked in they were 16 and 2 until they punted those last two games and then You just saw the job they did on Oklahoma City. And they're now looking at Edwards. And again, it feels so reminiscent because I went through this with Moran when they were making, you know,

made the second round of the playoffs. And it was like, what's wrong with him? Is he hurt? Is he tired? What's wrong? And it's like, no, there are boxes and elbow in this guy. Right? and the other guys have to make you pay.

Why did they take 49 threes? Because they're boxes and elbow in these guys. They're saying, you know what? You're going to look up, and now we're going to run two at you. And now we're not going to run to at you, but you're going to see a second guy standing at the free throw line. You are never, you're going to look up, and it's going to look like there's nowhere to drive.

Well, and that's what Dallas did against Oklahoma City as well. Oklahoma City was one of the heaviest drive and kick teams in the entire league. SGA, Jalen Williams, they were so good at that. And Dallas, with their length and their versatility, and either Daniel Gaffert or Derek Lively in the middle, did such a great job at preventing some of those drives and making it harder for them. Same exact formula against Minnesota.

It's no different. And for Minnesota, they're going to have to crack that. They're going to have to, whether it's with Anthony Edwards or whether it's Mike Killan-A-A-on-Lay. It's really tough to do that. Because like you said, Chris, Dallas's defense in these playoffs, I think the two best defenses, it's not, defensive rating is not the indicator of this statement,

but Minnesota and Dallas, I think, have been the best defenses in the playoffs, based off game planning, based off their opponents. They've been spectacular, the both of them. So if you're favoring Dallas with ISO players, shot creators, closers, and Kyrie Irving and Luca, you're given the offense on Dallas and Edge over Minnesota, and maybe these defenses are a lot closer in this series than Minnesota being an all-time great defense

has been, you know, against Denver last round, has been during the season. Maybe it's a lot closer actually in this particular series where Dallas gets the big edge on offense. Well, and also, Dallas has the good to be able to make life hell on Edward. They've got the long, wiry, athletic defender. Derek Jones Jr. is a hell of a defender.

and who could really move his feet and stay in front of people. And then, again, you're just constantly seeing two. So it's like, what you give up is Jaden McDaniels. I'll tell you, it's a quick story, maybe two years ago, two or three years ago. Whenever the T. Wolves, and this was Edward's second year of the league, played against Memphis. And I covered that series. And that was the one where it was like, Morant's tired, Morant's hurt, Marant, what's wrong with John Morant? It's like, bro, he sees two guys every time he looks up.

And guess who had an amazing series, though? Desmond Bain had an amazing series. Brandon Clark had an amazing series. Yeah, but there's no denying aunt was huffing and puffing in the game. Of course. He was huffing and puffing. He was clearly tired. It was just, I didn't have an issue with Reggie saying because he was a fact.

You could look at Anthony Edwards. He was clearly tired. You could knock Anthony Edwards for being tired. You can say you're 22 years old. You shouldn't be exhausted. You should have the energy to be here. in this moment. You should have the conditioning to be here. To me, it's more about that. I don't have an issue with acknowledging it because he was tired. And if anything, maybe that's a knock

on him. To me, that is a, that's number two. Fine, he's tired. That's not the reason he was what he was. The reason he was was is because of Dallas. And that's what I'm saying. I totally agree with you. Then I agree with you. But I was also tired. Morant was not the way he was because he was tired. or because he was hurt. It's because Minnesota freaking locked him up. It's now I've got to solve this. And so then Desmond Bain had a great series and Brana Clark had a great series.

And that's the trick. Towns has to be awesome. They are going to commit Anthony Edwards, you are not going to have it easy. Yeah, and Towns was six of 20 in the game from the field, two of nine from three. Like he needs to be better

if Ants is being so limited it as the source of offense. But ultimately, though, it's not just about Ant being better for Minnesota. It's also about, can you do better against Luca and Kyrie? Because in game one, it was McDaniels defending Kyrie, and then, I'm sorry, it was

McDaniels defending Luca, and then it was Anthony Edwards defending Kyrie. Anthony Edwards has to chase around the smaller, quicker player, the entire game, and then McDaniels was getting overpowered against Luca. Luca had that big shot down the stretch of the game kind of the icer where he gave a bump to McDaniels created space,

drain the mid-range jumper. Well, we saw Luca try that against Lou Dord against an Oklahoma City. And Lou Dort is strong. He's tough. He's a big frame. He can absorb those bumps from Luca and still be quick enough to stay in front of him, or try to at least. McDaniels is an outstanding defender,

but he doesn't have the strength of a Lou Dord. So I wonder if at some point in this series, we see that flipped, where Minnesota tries to use McDaniel's length and speed and quickness to defend Kyrie and try to bother him. And then you have Anthony Edwards risking it against Luca. You don't want Anthony Edwards in foul trouble, but he does have the strength, he has the toughness.

Maybe he's actually the better matchup for Luca, and maybe we see Minnesota make that switch. It's a risk, but just the thought of my mind watching game one. And they are going to have, I think they're probably going to play these guys for the most part, straight up. You know, I talked to John Krasinski from the Athletic yesterday on my local show, and he was like, I think what they're going to do is like, if these guys add up for 60, 70 points, okay.

But we're not letting PJ Washington kill us. We're not letting Derek Jones Jr. kill us. We're not letting Derek lively kill us. Like, they're going to have to add up. So there's obviously, and we talked about this during the Denver series, there's different ways to go about it. and one of the games we saw. We're just going to single Yokic.

Well, then he damn near went for 50. And so I think I'd look at it if I'm Minnesota and I'd go, you know what? I got to clean some stuff up, but not that much. And if Kyrie and Luca do what they do, that's okay. In the end, if I give up 108, I've got to win. in 2024 in the NBA, if I give up 108, that's a good enough defensive effort, especially when they had their two guys have such unbelievable first and second halves. And so I've got to be able to score 109.

That's what I've got to fix more so than slowing them down. Sure. Well, I mean, part of scoring more is also about, you know, getting some quality stops as well. I know 108 is not a lot, but part of that is because Dallas was 6 of 25 from 3. To your point about the Mavericks can be even better. They did not shoot the ball well in that game one, and yet they still won. So I think from Minnesota, you know, Van Gundy during the game over and over kept talking about the drop coverage Minnesota was using. Now, statistically, Minnesota was significantly better when Gobert was on the floor than they were with him off.

They were a plus 10 in the game when Rudy was out there. They were not so good. there were minus 13 in the only 10 minutes when he was out. And he played primarily drop coverage. Mixed results, but they also did a little bit of other stuff on defense. Do you think that they need to move away from the drop or stick to what they've been doing? And maybe it's just about like little other tweaks, like I said, maybe flipping ants and McDaniels. Like, what do you think about the drop coverage aspects?

I think he needs to be a little higher. Which they do sometimes. Yeah. If you're going to do it, I think you need to extend a little bit more. Yeah. Right? Than being all the way back at the basket because you've got two drop coverage, just absolute assassins. Yeah.

You know what I mean? With those two. They do for sure. I'm worried much more about Gobert on the offensive end than I am the defensive end. Yeah, Lively did a great job defending him. Like, Gobert had some opportunities. He sucks. He sucks.

He is a terrible offensive player. Like, legit, cannot dribble, cannot pass, cannot shoot. Yeah, and it felt like Dallas kind of baited, Bated Minnesota into trying to feed him sometimes. And it's like, no, you don't, it's not the shots you want. I mean, the only thing he can do is put it back in the basket or finish a dunk sometimes. Sometimes he doesn't even finish the dunk.

And the problem is, let's knock out too far. Gobert is like a historically, like an 80% finisher. He should be at the rim. I know, I'm just saying it's, yes, sometimes he doesn't finish the lung, but he's like an 80% guy. The other big problem is the only place he can be. Yeah, I know. They need to get his ass out the way. That's the problem.

There's no driving lanes. Yeah, but then you take him off the floor when he's been the most important player for them in the postseason aside from Ant. I mean, like he's been correct. Or aside from game two. of course. I mean, Carl Anthony Towns is not taking anything away from him. I'm just saying the defense has been outstanding when he's been out there. I understand.

I'm saying. So you can, yes, you can say take him out because of offense, but then you're losing him on defense. This was exactly what happened with Quinn Snyder with Derek favors. Yeah, but is he really the issue on offense or is it everything else? Is it the fact that Towns was six of 20 and he has some sloppy, sloppy mistakes to the postseason. I told you this from the beginning, and this is the team that can actually expose it. There's no driving lanes. Where can you put him, bro, on offense? I just think it's so easy to blame Gobert. Like, it's not just Gobert's fault. They weren't. They asked me,

should they do something with it? Yeah, but I'm also, I'm saying, like, they weren't good five out either. They just weren't good five out either in the game. Like they were worse without Rudy O'Ber out there on both ends of the floor in game one. All right. I know everybody and everybody does this, right? Every time Rudy Gobert is great, my entire timeline is literally giving him verbal fallatio. But anytime he does anything, he was literally the only positive plus minus four. But you're not.

There is always a, but there's always a context to that. who were the other four guys out there at the same time i mean he played 38 minutes chris he played pretty soon the entire game i got you kevin but if anything maybe he should have played more okay but i'm saying like you've got to take into context like who was out there when we can go in circle i think i think let's move on because we can go in circles about this a long time i know because he can never do anything wrong it's never anything is his fault literally just acknowledged to you. And they are better with him.

What did I just say about them baiting him into getting touches? Did I just acknowledge that he has flaws offensively? Yes. Okay, now I'd like you to acknowledge how he's been pivotal to their defense, how they are nowhere near as great with him on defensively, and how he's also important to defending Luca and Kari. They literally had their best defensive performance of the entire playoffs and possibly the best defensive performance I've ever seen

in life without him. Yeah, in game two. Yeah, they did. But then they won the series with Rudy O'Barre out there. I got you. But that happened and you can't act like it didn't happen. So they are capable of being great defensively. Yes, they are.

Yeah, they are. But they typically are better with him. Of course. I'm just saying for, unless you want Ant taking 14 threes, and if you want to put that on aunt, he needs to be more aggressive. There's nowhere to drive, Kevin. If you watch the way they're set up, there's no driving lane. Why is there no driving lane?

Because their boxes and elbows. How can they get away with this boxes and elbows all the time? Because nobody has to space out all the way to the three point line. There's that room. I'll tell you what. I don't think it changes. The yin and a yang. I don't think Minnesota.

I'm sorry, I don't think Dallas is, you know, losing, you know, sleep. If Nas Reid is in the corner, I think they're playing the same way. And they're going to. In the center. I know, but Nass Reed is out there, too. So you're saying go with one big, not two. Yeah, you can go. So you want to go really extreme here.

You want to go one big. You don't even want to go Nass Reed and towns. You want to go just towns. You can go read and towns. So you want to also bench Nause read? No, I'm saying you can go read in towns. That's fine. I'm just saying I don't think it changes what Dallas is doing.

I still think they're taking. I've always thought Towns and Center unlocks that team. Offensively. Yeah, but Towns was terrible in game one as well. I got you. He needs to be better. But I just think what my point is, is even if you tell me

Go Bear play zero minutes a game two, I don't think that's going to change what Dallas is doing defensively. They're still going to try to have lively and Gafford parked down low, and they're going to say, you know what, Nas Reid, Mr. 34% from three,

yeah, you can beat us in the corner. McDaniels, we don't think you're going to continue shooting like this. That's what's going to happen. Is there still going to bet on those guys to make them pay? I don't think the spacing changes too much. It's a problem from Minnesota regardless of the lineup out there, I believe. Well, they got tons of, oh, they got tons of threes last night, and they took 49 of them.

Too many. Way too many. You got to decide how you're going to get to the basket. And maybe part of that is Edwards being quick with the moves. That's literally what I said earlier, decisive. Yeah, and when Rudy Gobert comes and sets the high screen, go. go so that that's fine you versus let's meet at the rim right but it's not going to be easy and the other guys I think Dallas is so good defensively at doing this and making life hell

on an opposing star that you're going to come up with all manner everybody is is going to come up with all all the reasons for Anthony Edwards and part of it is just a learning experience It's very, very difficult to operate as a 22-year-old. And now he's going to get all the attention. And they're going to say, bro, if Mike Conley and Jaden McDaniels and Carl Towns beat us, okay. But you're not beating us. And it's almost the inverse on the other side, which is go ahead, Luca, go ahead, Kyrie. But PJ Washington and Derek Jones Jr. and all you other guys, no, no.

You don't get to just shoot open shots every. And Dallas is the inverse, right? Where it's like, go ahead, like you were saying. Go ahead. Shoot it. Yep. 49 is so extreme. It's too many, man.

It's out of character. Wildly out of character. Yeah, but they've got to, they've got to be the bigger team and play like the bigger team. Or else play truly small. I can't wait to see what they do game too. Friday night's going to be fun. Oh, yeah. Friday night's going to be.

I'm fired up about it. I really don't know. Certainly, Minnesota is such an awesome team. I would expect them to respond. Yeah, I would hope so. You know,

but, and Dallas has got that feeling of already having one in the bag. How many times have we seen the press conference? Mission accomplished. We came here to get one. We got one. We got home court advantage.

Now we got to take care of it on our own floor, right? Like, I mean, this is a true back against a wall game for Minnesota. I would imagine you get a home run effort out of them. I would hope you get a home run effort out of them. You know, and maybe a, maybe a totally different Anthony Edwards, too. You know, this is a, this is a trick for, uh, Mike Anora and, uh, and Chris Finch to figure that thing out and to, uh, again, it's not the end of the world.

They lost by three. They lost by three. They didn't lose by a hundred. They lost by three. I think that this is going to be the great series that we expected it to be. That's what I was most proud of, most happy about. Denver was such a good series and did get to go seven games. And if game one was any indication, we've got a chance to see another great, great series.

A couple other things before we get out of here. The all-NBA teams, was there anybody that you voted all-NBA that didn't make it? Victor. Oh. He didn't get many votes. No. Did I have Maxie? I don't think I had Maxie.

At one point I was considering Maxi. I think that's it. I guess you probably had Wemba Yama instead of Halliburton? Yeah. Because you were talking about Halliburton earlier, so I figured he didn't have him. Yep. Any surprises on your end looking at it? I don't think there was anybody undeserving of being all NBA.

And I do think it speaks to, if I can buy your argument with the Halliburton thing, that like, hey man, there was a large portion of the season where this guy was not an all-MBA performer. So there are other guys that would be more deserving. So if you wanted to put Jalen Brown in there, if you want to put Tyree Smacks in there, Paul George. I just think to me, I looked at it and go, God, man, we have got a ton of great players in the league. Because this is, you know, you're obviously not even counting guys that are, you know, injured this year or didn't have as good as season. and just seeing the guys that were like on the outside looking in speaks to how strong the league is right now. When you've got a third team all NBA that's got Steph Curry, Devin Booker, LeBron James, and De Monta Savonis on, that's a pretty damn good day.

That was a good year with a lot of great seasons. The numbers are crazy, you know, for these guys. if you were just to line up the seasons they had, points for game, assists for game, you know, like that kind of stuff. And I know it's inflated now. But like, if you lined it up, it's laughable that some of these guys would be third team all NBA.

There's guys on the third team that would have had the best statistical year. Other years. Great. Great seasons. So, yeah, I didn't really have a big problem with it. Two other things. J. Bickerstaff was the worst kept secret in the world. Played out exactly like the Vogel thing,

which was team loses, bad story comes out about it, a week later actually gets fired. You know what I mean? I feel like it's torture for them to do this. Like, Shom Shorani puts out a story, you know,

literally the second the buzzer comes off. Oh, dude, Jamie Bickerstest, jobs in jeopardy. And then like, okay, a week later. And I don't know. Here's the two things that ran through my mind. So tell me what you think.

I am not an objective observer in this. I love J.B. You love J.B. He's your guy. Great guy. Truly one of the great humans I have been around in basketball. So I feel for him. I do not think that they should have won more than they did, especially given the circumstances this year.

no one's ever, you know, no one's ever going to blame the roster. No GM is going to blame his own roster, but you and I have talked throughout the year about the overlap that they have. They got really good players. It just, it's not, the puzzle doesn't fit perfectly. And they still won a lot of games and still, I thought, played very nobly against Boston. But it seems that the stories leaking out are that him and Mitchell were not on the same page. And I've told you this for eight years running, Kevin. It's an old Hubey Brown thing.

You ever want to know why a coach is gone? You have to have the best player on your side. End of story. End of story. And there's already stories coming out about him and Mitchell and that they want to sign him to a contract extension and yada, yada, yada. Sharani has said on Fandul TV, how there's optimism he's going to sign the four-year $208 million contract.

Can you imagine saying no to $200, $200,000? $8 million. No. But I mean, God, after those all-N-B-A teams came out last night and people were like Bobby Marks on the light. So Bobby Marks would say it. And then all of these aggregators would then make their graphic and then like hat to it, Bobby Marks, right?

But it'd be some graphic. It'd be like, Luca Dodgich can now sign for $354 million. I was like, what the hell? And then it's like, Tyrese Halliburton can become the. first $80 million player and I was like, oh my God. 80 million a year. 80 million. His extension would include the last year is 80 million dollars.

Crazy. For this season. That's madness. That's madness, man. So, yeah, I mean. Maybe you will sign the $208 million extension. How about this one? How great would it be if Cleveland signed JJ Reddick to be their coach?

Oh, God, not a chance. And then the flip happens. It's L.A. or nothing? No, and then the flip happens. LeBron was there during the playoffs. You think that was coincidence? And LeBron and Brony go back to the land. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's what I'm saying. They beat the Lakers to the punt. and sign him to be their coach. Hey, if I'm the Lakers, I'd take a Mitchell LeBron flip in a second, wouldn't you? Yeah. Wouldn't you? Sure. You ain't getting anything better than that.

If we could somehow figure out how to flip that around. Sure. And say, all right, you end up with this, we end up with that. Yeah. I mean, of course, you say yes to LeBron James if you have an opportunity. And here's the thing. I don't know why. we shouldn't be surprised at the Donovan Mitchell thing.

I told you this last week, Kiv, when I quoted Young Dolph, who's your favorite new artist. Yeah, I love him. I listen to him when I wake up in the morning. I'm sure you do. It gets me hype for the day. You should. Makes me want to go back to sleep, actually. Look, you have to get the money first, and then you weasel your way to wherever you want to go.

Come on. Everybody knows that. So it's like, oh, Donovan Mitchell committing to Cleveland. No, he's committing to $200 million. Young doll. Maybe he is committing to Cleveland. Maybe. Oh, wow.

Young Dolph died in Memphis, Tennessee. I didn't know that. Kind of forgot about that. Horrible. Yeah, wow. Shot at a cookie shop. Oh, my God. Yeah, man.

There's a tragedy around you. And a white, white two-door Mercedes-Benz. Oh, it was a legitimate tragedy. 22 gun, oh my God, 22 gunshot wounds. It was a tragedy here. That's horrible. It happened while I was on the air. Wow.

Middle of the day. Like nearby? No, it's South Memphis, but he was at a cookie shop. Oh, wow. He stopped to get cookies. That's horrible. The guys rolled up on him. Yeah, it was horrible, horrible.

But you should go listen to his music and his honor. Yeah, I will. I've never listened, but I'll give him a listen after this podcast. I'll give him a listen. You'll be a paper route boy before. we know it. What's, what song should I listen to first? What's the, what's to go to? I'll put it on Spotify right now. Get paid. Okay, get paid. Get paid by Young Dolph. Yeah, come on, man. Okay. Pistons hired Trajan Langdon. Does it matter to you? I mean, it may matter. It may not matter.

Do you have an opinion on Trajan Langdon as an executive? I mean, look, I could have an opinion that may not matter or not. Just being totally honest here for the listeners. You can hear good things about a guy for years, and I've heard many good things about Trajan Langdon for years about what he's like as an executive. So it seems like a positive addition for the Pistons. However, the Pistons for a long time now between Tellem and Weaver, it's been like, who's actually making the decisions here? Who's making the calls?

There's been, I guess, some friction, some disagreement between them, with draft picks with what to do. Does Langdon oversee everything here, or is the same thing now where it's Langdon and Tell them, and then Weaver's taking the back seat now. I don't know, because I'll tell you what, Troy Weaver was also another guy for years. You heard about how amazing of the executive he was in Oklahoma City. Didn't pan out that way with Detroit.

So we'll see with Langdon. It seems like a positive addition. Have always heard good things about him everywhere he's been in the NBA. But the Pistons, will he solve their dysfunction in the front office? That's the big question that may be out of his control. You're in an unbelievable position when you're Trayson Langdon, who you've been in these two different front offices, and you have,

whether or not you were the guy that actually pulled the trigger on these draft picks, I was reading an article today where he got credit for him. So he's like, he was a part of front offices that drafted Jared Allen and Karris Levert and Zion Williamson and Trey Murphy and Herb Jones. And it's like, like, do we know that he was the guy in the room slamming on the table for them? Like, I don't,

He's in a good spot, right? Because he has been a part of organizations. And he was known as a player guy. So maybe he's a great draft evaluator, possible. But that's what they said about the dude that went to Atlanta who's already gone, remember? Slank. He was king of the draft. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Oh, and that's a bit about Weaver going to Detroit, too. King of the draft. Yeah. So I hope for Detroit's sake, God bless all those Detroit fans, you deserve somebody. You're not going to grab. You just don't know. Hopefully they fire Monty, clear out house and let somebody run the whole show, seriously.

It's just way too many cooks in the kitchen. It has been forever. And you just cannot operate that way. You can't. It's just a bunch of guys and whoever's got the owner's ear that day. Seriously. So just have it all be one dude and he's the guy responsible for it.

Or just let Troy Weaver keep bringing to you until he has his dream of having 15 centers on a roster. Might as well sign Jalil Okra for too, give him a shot. Why not? You know he's still around in the G League. Yeah, give him a shot with Bagley. How dare you? Marvin has a real NBA contract.

Don't you put them in the same bin. Don't you put them in the same bin. By the way, an NBA contract unlike Killian A's. Don't tell me about it. Is he going to be in the Olympics this year? No, he's not. I'm excited to see him play basketball again. I don't think he made the team.

Damn. I wanted to see him and Victor Cook together. I guess not. Hope somebody signs him. Or maybe I hope somebody doesn't. Get him out of the family. He said out of mind. Out of sight out of mine.

Like your boy Frankie smokes. Yeah, out of mind. We hadn't heard about him in years. He probably, he probably weighs 260 pounds now. All right. I can't wait for these conference finals to continue.

Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always. Kevin, I will talk to you on Monday night. I'm going to listen to Young Dolph all weekends. Please do. Must be 21 plus in present select states or 18 plus in D.C. Fandul is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with the Kansas Star Casino LLC. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit fandul.com slash RG. Colorado, D.C., Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, and Vermont.

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