The Mismatch - Celtics Sweep, Mavs On The Brink, and Remembering Bill Walton

Episode Date: May 28, 2024

Verno and KOC discuss the Celtics' comeback win as they sweep the Pacers and move on to the NBA Finals (00:55). They dive into why the Celtics have been so successful with Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown, as well as what the sweep means from the Pacers' perspective. Next, they discuss the potential sweep in the West, as the Mavs look to finish the Timberwolves and advance to the Finals (25:27). The guys discuss the Mavs' terrific defense on Anthony Edwards and Karl-Anthony Towns all series long, as well as Luka Doncic and Kyrie Irving’s clutch minutes. Lastly, the guys share stories about Hall of Famer Bill Walton, who passed away on Monday (46:08). Got a question for Verno and KOC? Send them an email at [e-mail]! Or you can send the guys a tweet @ChrisVernonShow and @KevinOConnorNBA! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Social: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? Justin Verrier here from group chat on The Ringer NBA show, and we want you to come hang out with us for a live podcast recording on Tuesday, June 18th at 8 p.m. Bigwas, Rob Mahoney, and I are kicking off the Ringer residency at the L. Ray Theater in Los Angeles. Get your tickets now at the ringer.com slash events while they last. Hope to see you there. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me as he does every Monday night from The Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.k. Kevin O. Bomber. Kevin O. Concerent. Kevin O. Kavanaugh. Kevin O. Kavanaugh. Kevin O. Kavanaugh. One sweep down. One to go.

Yep. The Boston Celtics have just defeated the Indiana Pacers. They are headed to the NBA Finals. Jailam Brown ends up winning Eastern Conference Finals MVP. Very well-deserved. and, you know, this is one of those where, if I'm a Pacers fan, I am reliving this over and over and over again, that even though they lost their best player, and they are one of many teams that have lost either their best player or significant players throughout these NBA playoffs, they were still right there in three of the four games.

Sometimes sweeps are absolute bloodbass, and sometimes sweeps the 4-0 doesn't tell the whole story. I think what we're learning in both conferences, and we saw one of these series and tonight, is that these teams with experience, these teams with experience in crunch time, big spots, it has had a huge impact on the way these series have played out, because on one side,

there's a team that's going through. through it for the first time. And on the other side, there's teams that have been in this situation several times, both Dallas and Boston, respectively. And when it mattered most, Boston was able to come up big, three crazy close games, and they won all of them. And you're a few minutes away from this being a totally different deal. What the deal is, is that Boston is headed to the NBA final.

So what are your overarching thoughts of watching Boston take down Indiana in four games? Well, I mean, speaking strictly about this year's team. I mean, like you said, they win game 1 by 5 in overtime after Indiana blows it late. They smoke Indiana in game 2 by 16. Game 3, they win by 3. Game 4, they win by 3. So a lot of close games. And with the Celtic side of things, I think there's,

No denying how dominant of a season this has been. I mean, like, they're point differential in the postseason. They have dominated. They win in five in the first true rounds. They win in four in the Eastern Conference finals. During the entire regular season, there are a 64-win team. They're 76 and 20 on the entire season. They have undeniably been dominance.

But the real test is coming up. We just watched a team in these four games against the end of pacer's struggle at times with T.J. McConnell and Doug McDermott and Obie Toppin and they're about to be facing in all likelihood. Luca Donchich, arguably the best player in the world. He may steal that title from Nikola Yokic, as Bill Simmons and Ryan Rissolo talked about on Sunday's pod. And then against Kyra Irving, who is one of the best shot creators who is undefeated and close out games in his entire career. He is playing unbelievable basketball right now with a star supporting cast in the Mavericks and with one of the best defenses in the entire playoffs and in the second half of the year.

So the real test is coming up for a Celtics team that has dominated the games on their schedule. Like you can't fault them for dominating the teams that they have had to, the Pacers without Halliburton, the Cavs without Mitchell and Jared Allen, the heat without Jimmy Butler, and a weaker Easter conference throughout the entire season. So it's not disrespect to the Celtics for the Celtics. that, but it is merely about setting up for what is the ultimate test for them. And if they win this, well, I mean, then it's all validated. It'll be a complete, it'll be all be validated. All of it will be, exactly. You cannot take away, though, the fact that they are in the NBA finals.

And part of being able to make it to the NBA finals is being able to stay healthy. And they lost one of their big pieces, too. You know, I was thinking about this earlier tonight. night. You go through the 16 teams that were in the playoffs. They lost Porzingas and they still hummed along and people, if they struggled, they would have said, oh man, you just see how much they miss Porzingis, right? You go to the two seed, New York, absolutely bloodied and battered by the time it was all over. Milwaukee lost both of their best players by the time the playoffs came around. Cleveland, by the time it was all said and done, they lost two of their best, in fact, their two best playoff performers were done by the time that they got to their biggest

games. Orlando stayed relatively healthy, but they were young. Indiana lost their best player in Tyrese Halliburton. Philadelphia had generally pretty good health, but we know that Joe L. M. B. the 100% Joelle M. B'd, right? We didn't get the full version, and that's why they were seated the way they were, and obviously Philadelphia, or Miami got hurt. Go to the Western Conference. Oklahoma City, generally pretty healthy. Denver, generally pretty healthy. Minnesota, generally pretty healthy. Clippers lost their best player. Mavericks, pretty healthy. Phoenix, stinks. New Orleans lost their best player, right? New Orleans is there without their best player by the time it's all said and done.

And then the Lakers just think. So they had all their guys. I mean, they, they're missing some of their random parts. But it certainly wasn't either of their two best players being out. Durability and depth are such significant parts of the equation. And that's where you can't like when you look at Boston and they were out, Chris Taps, forzingis, who was a vital part of that team. one of the reasons why Al Horford has had struggles on defense is because they're attacking him over and over and over again that they don't have the big seven foot two guy back there helping on those drives to the rim like they've had all season.

And like the fact that they're able to withstand a loss like that, of poor Zengis, and overcome it where you have Derek White blocking seven shots a game as a guard and you have Drew Holiday and you have Tatum rebounding over 10 times a game and Jalen Brown blocking Nemhart at the end of a game because you have a collective unit of. depth of high-end talent and high-end role players that all can absorb more responsibility on your team. It is a compliment to the Celtics that they've been able to withstand the loss of Porzingis, whereas some of these other teams have not been able to. Depth and durability matter, and that's part of the success of Tatum and Brown. This is their sixth East Finals of Parents in eight years. Their second NBA finals of parents in the last four years, these guys have always been

durable throughout this entire run, these deep runs into May, almost every single season of their entire careers ever since they got drafted. It's a compliment to them because being available is, as people say, availability is the best ability. And for Boston, they tend to have that with their best players. You remember earlier in the season, it might have been Christmas, might have been another game, but we did a couple of different shows after what were premier Boston games. You'll remember me saying this. I said, is it possible Jalen Brown's not Robin? It feels like there's been so many big games that he's the one that shows up big when it mattered most this year.

When they were playing premier teams on big stages, it was like, hey, now he's there for the fight. And so I think we've always talked about this being kind of like a Batman and Robin thing. obviously he's the one that's not all NBA. Jason Tatum is first team all NBA. And yet it felt like more often than not in big spots, Jalen Brown was the one that was there for the fight. And he was the one in the huddles that was yelling at everybody and kind of took on that old Marcus Smart role.

Like there was a void there and he started to fill it. And you could see him. And then tonight again, when it mattered most, Jalen Brown, unbelievable step-through bucket. Jalen Brown, beautiful. Unbelievable block. Jalen Brown, driving into the paint, kick out to Derek White for the game winner. I mean, it's three plays in a row.

And so, like, you look back at this, you say there's two major swing games. I know Holiday got the steal in game three. but like when you look back at game one where he hit that corner three probably the biggest shot we've ever seen to make and then you see and then you saw tonight he made every play down the stretch and then he makes the he makes all three of those plays tatem takes this miserable shot while they're up three but drew holiday steals the game with an offensive rebound just another winning play and the last time they were in the NBA finals we came out talking about Jalen Brown being the best performer for the Celtics. So it's going to be super fascinating to see. Now they're in the NBA finals again. And we're going to see where Tatum lines up on the performer stage and where Jalen

Brown does. But I'll tell you this, man, he has got some dog in him and he is certainly there for it in a lot of big spots for the Celtics. I know he's kind of been more of the whipping boy. It feels like Tatum has caught a lot more great. this year than in years past. But I'll say this, the guy performs. He does perform and that, he won them that game tonight.

There's no question he won them that game tonight. Because when it mattered most and they were in crunch time, he made the plays. I mean, that three play sequence that you mentioned was just absolutely amazing. It was. Signature moments, right? Really? Yeah. All three of them alone were signature moments.

Then you put them together back to back to back. Yeah. That's the type of thing that could define the progress and the step up into being a champion that we're talking about, the Jalen Brown potentially being for Boston. The fact is that, like, he has improved to become this type of guy that can do that in these moments. I know he's had these flashes in the past. He's had these high moments. He's had great moments in the postseason.

But the ball handling improvement, the willingness this season to really be the guy on defense, and to be a lockdown guy, the passing improvement that we've seen steadily over the years, all of that was, I thought, captured with that three-play sequence that he had at the end of game four. And so for Boston, whether Tatum or Brown is the true best player on the team, I mean, like, typically it's Tatum. I mean, Tatum is the better defender. He's the better rebounder. He is the better passer. But sometimes Brown is the dog.

And sometimes Brown is the better scorer. But the fact that they have two of those guys is part of the reason why they're in this position and why they do have a shot against the Mavericks and why it should be a competitive series. I'm not sure how long it'll go. I haven't made my final prediction there, but we can talk about that when we kind of, if you want to preview Maverick Celtics. No, the Maverick series isn't over yet. Come on. Okay. So, and I don't think you want to do that either because we're also have, if the series is over, the Maverick series is Tuesday night and, Thursday night. So we'll have a Friday show to talk about that. So I'm glad we're not,

you don't want to talk about it tonight. But I think for Celtics moving forward, those guys are going to be a handful to defend. And then when you factor in the return of Porzingis, I do think he'll be back June 6th for game one. And then you factor in the fact they have all these guys, Derek White, Drew Holiday, Al Horford, capable of hitting seven freaking threes in game three. Are you kidding me? By the way, I just got to mention that behind the back pass by Jason Tatum to Al Horford in Game 3 at that moment of the game with the accuracy on top of the balls it took to make that pass. Oh my God.

Like I was losing it watching the game. I cannot believe Tatum made that pass. That was incredible. That was an amazing pass. They totally deserve to be where they are. And I know that everybody pokes holes in it because of the level of. competition, but they also deserve credit for staying healthy, right? And the final grade will be given, but the other thing is they are, they've stayed patient with those two guys. They know they have

two of the best wings in the league. And instead of breaking it up, they have stayed patient with it. And now they're paid off by those guys delivering them to another NBA finals. We have not talk much about the other side. I tell you this, I know it sucks if you're a Pacer's fan. How many times have you heard me say this over our eight seasons together? Oh, come on. Don't say it again, dude.

The only, no, the only thing. You don't want to make the Eastern Conference finals? Come on. What? Are you going to say what you think you're going to say? You'd better to lose early than lose late? Absolutely not. Is that what I'm saying?

Okay, okay. Sorry, I just, I had flashbacks. I was worried that was nice. The only thing No, when you make it to the final four, you take that, you take that no matter what. Okay.

Teams that when I talk about it getting, when I've talked about it getting ripped away from teams, that's where you always have to wonder what might have been. And there's going to be a tinge of this. But I don't think any honest Pacers fan sits back and goes, oh, well, if we wouldn't have lost this guy, because look, you wouldn't have gotten the same Celtics team. There's no way psychologically you look across the court and give it the same level,

that you play more to your level of competition. And that is a demerit on the Celtics. But what I was going to say is in the eighth season, you've heard me say, the only thing you can ask for is a fan. And especially if you invest your time, you invest your care, more importantly, you invest your money, is that that team gives it everything they got, and if they came up short, then they came up short.

And yeah, it sucks to get swept, but that ain't for lack of, right? I think you have to be insanely proud of that team. They were severely outmaned, especially by the end of this. And they made that team beat them, right? There's no way you should have said, I mean, look, we look at it, we go, all right. I think you and I both, once we heard Halliburton was going to be out, you look at three and four,

and we know they're going to be in Indiana, but it's like they're playing a team that's won over 70 games already. There's a real good chance that we're doing a show where we're getting to start it early. We're getting to start this thing in the fourth quarter because it's like, man, they're just out, man, at this point. They've lost their best player. They've lost the guy that literally runs their offense. Nemhard was unbelievable. Unbelievable when called upon. And, I mean, that was a revelation for him to be that good on that stage.

That'd make me so hopeful towards the future. And the other thing is, again, like I said, I know it stinks. But, man, I'd be so proud of my team if I'm an Indiana fan. I really would. How could you not mean? I mean, they went toe to toe with a team that dominated the East all season long. And they showed improvement. they like guys stepped up ben shepherd as a rookie throughout this entire playoff run showed great progress he showed he could be contributor he had Pascal see acum had some amazing moments throughout obi topping looked like a playoff guy out there to me uh Andrew Nemhard like Nemhard he was the revelation

he was brunson ask in a way without lucca right in a sense like nem hard now in his second year or right second year yeah yeah second year second year second year second year second year like having 32 in game 3, 24 in game 4. Obviously he had the turnover where he kind of forced it against Drew Holiday in game 3. Carlisle should have called the timeout. He had a late turnover in game 4, but he's a 24-year-old point guard getting thrown out there with more on his plate than he's had all season long. And he still came through with very efficient games, tons of assists, limited turnovers for the most part. Nemhard still, despite you can nitpick, he was awesome.

That was a really good comp you made on the Brunson Mavericks. Was Brunson? Yeah, because remember that was, it was such a revelation at the time. We're not saying the kid's going to end up to be Jaila Brunson. But we didn't think Jaila Brunson was going to be Jaila Brunson. No. Nobody thought he was going to be, you know, the guy that he has turned out to be, including his own team and including, weirdly, the guy that coached him in Dallas,

who's now coaching interned him hard. Figure that out. So, I mean, for the pace is moving forward, I mean, I think this is a team prepared to take steps moving forward because they have youth, even though they already trade for Siakum, they still have flexibility moving forward. They have an appealing foundation with what they have right now. But these next steps are sometimes the toughest steps to go from really good team into championship contender. And that's where improvement is going to have to come from within. Halliburton's got to be better. I mean, he was the one guy in this playoff run where you look at and you're like,

eh, some good moments, some not so good moments. Can you tap into the first half of the season when you were awesome and carry that through? That's going to be the question. First time through it, though, Kiv. First time through it. First time through it. I know I totally understand. But also doing it while supporting the growth of Nemhard, can these two guys

nem hard with what he showed? not just these last two games, but throughout the season, he's been really good as well. But on a higher volume, he showed he can do it against elite defenders. He did it against an elite perimeter defense

that Boston has. So can Nemhard and Halliburton grow together into becoming a completely dominant backcourt duo where it's one or the other and they can play together because they're both selfless. They can both shoot off the catch.

They can both defer. They can both dominate the ball. can they dominate as a unit together? That's going to be the next step for Pacers, and maybe that'll be the silver lining of Hallibur and missing these games because you found out you have something in them hard. The other thing is,

them getting to be on such a big stage, I will say this for Indiana. We saw them at the in-season tournament, and they were a revelation there. Everybody was just so excited about what they brought to the table. And then them getting to play in so many big games. We got to watch them play against New York, and then we got to watch them play against Boston.

And if you are a basketball fan, you had to absolutely love watching them play. That was a fun style of basketball and pretty. And they just push the ball. They get early in the shot clock. They don't waste dribbles. They're not just standing around. Like, their games are entertaining. That is an entertaining team.

And so I can't be more effusive in praise for a team that just got run out 4-0 because I thought they gave it everything they got and they were fun all the way to the end. And I think that they deserve a lot of credit for that. And one name we haven't mentioned, just want to throw the name out there. I think it's worth saying Miles Turner. Yeah. Miles Turner was really good. He was really good throughout this run. He had some big games.

I thought he played a tough brand of basketball most nights. Miles Turner is a guy who before last season had a lot of inconsistencies throughout his career, a lot of questions about what he could be, but he's been an 18-point-per-game guy for now two years straight. And I thought he played really well throughout this postseason. And now I feel old saying this, but he's about to enter his 10th NBA season next year. And he looks like a complete centerpiece with that Halliburton Nimhard crew and all those other young talented players they have Siakum and some of the bench guys as well for them to build with moving forward and I look forward to seeing if the Pacers can get back here because I don't think this is

an Atlanta Hawks situation. I think the Pacers can build on this and be back in the future. Look, if you got Halliburton, he's going to be one of the best players in the league for a long time. And I imagine he will be better next year after an offseason to recuperate and hopefully we get to see first four months of the season. Halliburton rather than last three months. And learn.

I mean, I genuinely think, I've said this to you multiple times throughout the postseason. I think he's going to learn to integrate the mid-range. He's too good of a mid-range shooter, not to shoot more of them. And one thing you're seeing with Luca in that Maverick series and with Kyrie is the utilization of the mid-range. One of the differences between Luca and James Hart and that comparison, we've heard so much over the years with their ball dominance is the fact that Luca actually has the size and the desire to use the mid-range. He can play back to the basket. He can pull up, step back, do everything

for mid-range. Kyrie can do that as well. Halliburton for the Pacers, that's one thing I would love to see him integrate in the years to come. I believe he hasn't in him. I think that could help him become a more diverse offensive presence, and you only need to look at the other conference with seeing what Luca and Kyrie are doing from the mid-range. And game. situations. Those guys are absolutely filthy. Two best closures in basketball. And I guess that's why, you know, Luca and Kyrie have the Mavs up three are right now. Well, and that's why we always talk about playoff scars and catching those and learning. This is what it's like. As the competition gets greater now, everybody has scouted you. They know, you know, just like the great defensive

coordinators in the NFL, they say they want to make that quarterback play left-handed. They They look at every game film that you've had all year long, and they say, all right, here's the four throws this guy loves to make. Well, you don't get to make those four throws this game. Those four are off the table. Now what? And so there's a lot of times you see guys struggle their first time through with somebody's just preparing for them. And I think that is exactly what happens when it comes to basketball players. And when you get to this level.

With Fandul, it's never too late to get in on the action this NBA playoffs, because right now new customers get $150 and bonus bets with any winning $5 bet. It's $150 to use on same game parlays, live bets, championship futures, exclusive markets, and so much more. There's no better place to bet on all the playoff action than America's number one sportsbook. Just go to fandul.com slash mismatch to get started. Fandul, official sports betting partner of the NBA. Must be 20 home plus and present in select states, excluding North Carolina or 18 plus in D.C. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-dash-help.com.

First online real money wager only. $10 deposit required. Bonus bets are non-withdrawable and expires seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsport.famdull.com. We'll move on to that Dallas being up 3-0. We know it's super daunting for Minnesota at this point. It's 154 and 0 if you are up 3O in a series.

But they played three games of Minnesota with less than five minutes to go, has had the lead in all of them. And it happened again. And last night, even with 321 left to 107-105, Dallas, so Dallas has taken the lead. Minnesota didn't have another bucket until 15 seconds left in the game with Anthony Edwards. In the last three minutes of game two, one field goal. And it happened also in game one.

With Anthony Edwards, same thing we just talked about. As the competition gets greater and somebody's game planning only to make you miserable, here's what life's going to be like for you. And this will be totally invaluable for Anthony Edwards. he will go back and look and every player worth their salt, and Luke had to go through it on the other side. He's going to look and he's going to say, all right, what can I do?

When they do this to me next time around, here's how I'll handle it. But unfortunately, it's been a bad go for him. It's been a bad go for his running buddy because while the two great players for Dallas have been great and were great in game three, Luca and Kyrie with 33 each, Um, this has been just absolute misery for cat and aunt, even more so cat than ant, but I mean, sometimes it's as simple as it.

And one of the things we talked about when we came into the series is like, look, history usually tells us the best player wins. Now, they were uniquely built to deal with Yokic and Yokic didn't come out of that. So that, that didn't exactly hold. Right now, certainly looks like the team with the best player. is winning this thing. And Dodgich has been unbelievable and his running buddy, Kyrie's been unbelievable.

I mean, it's, this doesn't feel that hard to analyze. These games have come down to crunch time. Luca and Kyrie have been amazing. Kat and have been terrible. I mean, because the role players for Minnesota have been good.

Go look at their numbers. It's not like they've been bad. It's the stars. You know, Kyle Anderson's been good. Kylie's been fine. has been fine. Nasreides had moments. Like, Go bears, I mean, those guys, but the two big

guys, the two big guns, dude, Carl Anthony Townes is shooting less than 30% in the series. That's crazy. Yeah. 30? He's not hitting twos. He's not hitting threes. He's making sloppy mistakes out there.

I thought Van Gundy said in game three, he says, it seems like cats overthinking everything. And I thought that was a pretty accurate take on the way in which he's performing. He's 14% from 3. 14%. Actually, actually 13.6%. I'm giving him a couple of different points.

He was 0 for 8 in the last game. So that would destroy your sample size. I mean, I mean, one for five in game two, two for nine in game one. He's been terrible. And also, by the way, one for six in game seven against Denver, oh for four in game six against Denver. so he wasn't shooting too hot from three for now five consecutive games so i mean i think with cat you know hey hey you know when you know it's bad kev this when you know it's bad we're getting we'll get

to more but you know it's bad when i was reading an article this morning and it's going through how dismal he's been and then it says like and then there's a note it says his four year $221 million extension kicks in next year. I was like, oh, my God. That's when you know it's bad. When they start mentioning how much you're about to get paid after this, then we're not even talking about just what's happening right now. We're talking about, oh, God, not only was he a piece of crap,

he's on the hook for like $50 million a year going forward. Oh, no. Oh, no. Maybe I was right. Should have traded him to make space for Leonard Miller, huh? Oh, my God. Come on. Come on.

We'll see. Maybe I will be proven right. They're in the West finals. You were wrong. I know. I'm kidding. I'm totally joking. I'm joking, but like, we'll save the offseason talk for after the series.

He's 15 for 54. I know. Yeah. He's been horrible. I mean, the fact is is that Ant has underperformed. Cat has underperformed. Those are the two primary reasons. why Minnesota doesn't have a single win so far in the series.

And has not lived up to what it felt like he might. He's 22. I know he's 22, but he was exceeding expectations through two rounds. And he hasn't at all. He's completely underwhelmed this round. Cat, after two pretty good rounds for the most part, has completely underwhelmed. So, like, when your two best players are doing that, it's really hard for you to win games and overcome, especially,

one on the Dallas side of things. You got PJ Washington hitting clutch shots. You got Derek Lively dunking everything around the rim. Daniel Gafford making big plays even when Lively's not out there after he got knocked out of game three and he'll be missing game four by the way. Guys like Jaden Hardy making big plays off the bench after Jason K. decided to pull X him and put Hardy out there. Like their role players are performing at a really, really high level for the Dallas side of things. And ultimately for Minnesota, I mean, besides Nazreed, catching fire in game two, and then McDaniels in game one, I don't feel like the role players have matched the performance of Dallas.

And their most expensive role player, Rudy Gobert, also has not either. I think Gobert, if you're blaming the Timberwolves is third behind ants and cat without a doubt. I mean, the primary options are the two best players on the team on offense. But Gobert at times has not been up to snuff this series, and he has been unable to completely have any chance at neutralizing the pick and roll between Luca and Lively or Gafford and then Kyrie involved as well. Man, I know that, I mean, at this point,

it's just so uphill for them, the climb. It's 154 and O for a reason. That being said, man, do you know how short my leash would be on towns? I pull him for Reed in a second. If I looked out there and he looks like the same guy, man, if I'm going down, let me go down swinging with Nasreed. Just like the end of the game three. You know what?

I've got this number. I looked it up earlier and the Nasreid, like the lineup numbers when I was looking at them earlier today, there were a couple of them where I was like, you know what, man? Like some of these some of these lineups Let's see Nasre And Rudy Gobert Are they're a plus 10

Is that in this series That rating? Yes in this rate in this series wow Yes They have a plus 10 Net rating right now Meanwhile Let me see if I could find

Gober and towns are minus two and a half minus two and a half. Because when I looked up, you're not, you don't find a lot of, like the two man lineup combinations, it's very few and far between that you have anything positive for,

uh, for Minnesota. Right. You, in fact, here, I'll list the, the positive ones that have played like real minutes,

are Alexander Walker and Nasreid, are Nasreid and Rudy Gobert and Rudy Gobert and Rudy go bear and Anthony Edwards. In terms of two men, again, it's all small sample size. I get it. It's only three games, but it's all we have to go off of, right? In terms of, and it does match the eye test. It's like, I would just, and it's because Towns has been so bad.

He's been so bad. I mean, you could replace him with anybody. You could, I'm not kidding. You could find anybody in the world to play power forward to shoot 29% because he's at 28%. Because he's at 28%. You can find anybody to shoot 29%. You want to talk about lineups. One lineup, I'm a little bit surprised that we haven't seen so far in the series.

It's something we only saw for 11 minutes against Denver. We didn't see much of it. And that is the three big lineup with Rudy Gobert, Caron-Lentany Towns, and Nas Reed. Against Denver, they had a plus 28.8 net rating in 11 minutes, very small sample. during the regular season they played 26 minutes together, very small sample, had a 39.7 net rating. So that three big lineup in really short spurts has been dominance. I'm just a little surprised we haven't seen that against Dallas.

I'd like to see that maybe go to it at some point because you still can retain space and you have so much size. Maybe it helps make a difference. Maybe like McDaniels has proven through three games that he doesn't. doesn't have the size and strength to defend Luca. Maybe you get creative and throw Nas on him for a possession or two. Maybe you throw a cat on them for a possession or two. I don't think anybody can defend Luca.

It doesn't matter who defends Luca. But I'm just throwing that thought out there as to say, I'm a little surprised we haven't seen it after we saw it in some pretty pivotal games against the Nuggets. Yeah. And the other thing is they will fall in line with 99% of all playoff teams, get to the offseason. their GM will do the year end.

I was proud of this team. You know, we're excited about the future going forward. And then when they start to field questions, they'll say, what are you looking for in the off season? And what will they say? What everybody says,

we need more shooting. They'll say it just like, everybody says it. We need more shooting. Boston doesn't have to say it. Because Boston's got like eight guys that have hit 100 threes or whatever. Like, they found the shooting.

Hey, Boston. Boston has all the shooters. I mean, if Andy Edwards is going to shoot like crap and Towns is going to shoot like crap, it's like town's like a 40% three-poys shooter that can't make a three-pointer. You know, when it matters now. In front of Dirk, sit in court side.

They can't get anybody and shooting 1,500 shots a day. I will say that was maybe Dremont's best TNT moment. I will give him credit for that. Yeah, Dremont salvaged a lot in that moment. Him calling out, town saying 15003s a day was that was

it was valuable to have him on the broadcast for that he's like what the F are you talking like I play with Curry and Thompson nobody is shooting 1500 threes and then Kenny Smith was a really good teammate as well giving context of how he shot per day and he's like yeah that's cap

like 300 mate he's like that takes like 45 minutes at least to hit that. So who knows? Who knows? I will say this. Get to the end of these games.

But by the way, if you are taking 1,500 shots today, maybe that's too many. Yeah, maybe that's too many. Maybe that's too many at this time of year. Look, they, these teams, like,

I know that people have said, oh, well, Minnesota, they're not young, right? Like, people keep calling them young. Young sometimes. They're young. they are pretty young. Their best player is young.

That's where that comes from. And the other thing is they do not have this experience. He doesn't have this experience and he is tired. He is. Like you can see him. It wears and tears on you as the thing goes on and you can see that he's not handling this all that well. He almost had a triple double last night, but he had four points in the fourth quarter.

And that's when you have. to have your best player. Kyrie and Luca in game three outscored the Timberwolves 21 to 20 by themselves. By themselves. Okay? And they are now in this postseason, six and two in clutch games.

So you know these games come down to the end. And when you were talking about earlier, and again, we'll get to analyze it. We assume that they're going to win, but we'll take time to analyze that a little bit later. But it's a thing with this clutch game deal. And if there's one thing that people have worried about Boston, it's like, all right, what's going to happen when it's five minutes,

it's a nip-tuck, it's a one-possession game. This is now they were outstanding during the season, and they have been off the charts of the playoffs. Their offensive rating is crazy. It's over 120-something per 100 possessions. like over 50% from the field, 40% from three between Kyrie and Luca only. So it's like, man, you don't want to get in a damn clutch game situation with those dudes because they deliver.

They really deliver. And, you know, if Dalai, Luca has obviously not been 100% and rest would do him good. If they can close this thing out on Tuesday night, then it'll give him more. more than a week to be on ice. I will say I worry about the lively thing, Kev. I know they said that the next brain. Golly, how did he not have a concussion? I mean, that was violent, truly.

That was really scary. Well, regardless, I mean, it's possible that it would be better if it were concussion than an ex-brain. I'm just saying, like, in terms of timeline of return seven to 10 days for concussion versus next sprain, who knows the severity. It could be something that's actually super limiting for him. So we don't know. It could have actually been a concussion.

But he has been awesome. I have no idea. Yeah, he's, but the bottom line, regardless of what it is, if it's a limitation at all for him, it hurts the Mavericks because he has been absolutely outstanding. He does not look like a rookie out there. He is finishing everything at the rim. He's making the right decisions on the short roll.

He has been absolutely dominant on defense, bothering everything around. the rim, whether it's Gobert with lob opportunities or finishes out the basket or Anthony Edwards on drives to the rim or Cat on drives lively is stopping everything. The dude does not look like a rookie. I can't believe he's a rookie watching him right now. Well, did you see, speaking of that, he is in line to become the fourth rookie to average a double double in the conference finals ever. Wow. Charles Barkley in 1985, Larry Bird in 1980,

and Alvin Adams in 1976. Well, was that said? Double, double? Yes, in the conference finals as a rookie. Well, that probably fell off after game three because he only played what, like 10 minutes? Yeah. That was probably through game two, right?

He was in line. Regardless. He was in line. he was putting up those numbers. It's just game three, unfortunately. And he was great to start game three, too. Yeah. Kills the average.

Yeah, I know. It's too bad. But I mean, Gafford, the end of that game, man. How about the alley-U? Oh, my God. Oh, my God. And on the alley-Ub, Gobert made a dirty play pushing him, really extended his arms. Well, he punched Luca in game two on the weird take foul.

and then it was like, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. And so then Luca had to maim him for the game winner. Oh, my God. Lucas trash talk throughout the entire series. They got Gobert posting him up and he strips the ball and he just looks at the bench like, what the hell are you doing? Bro, when he put Gobert on skates, when I tell you that I... How'd you react?

There's no amount of Cialis or Blue Chew or... There's nothing that could have given me a bigger erection than that. Nothing. For six hours straight, I thought I was going to have to go to the infirmary. Well, best moments of my life. I haven't had an erection since. And then he was starting, hey. And then he's screaming at him.

And then he's telling everybody, go the hell home. Oh, my God. I was on cloud nine. That was great. That was amazing. Yeah, that was incredible. I mean, dude, Luca is so lovable.

That guy. He's so lovable. As a winner, as a megastar for Celtics fans as a villain in the finals, too. I mean, it's going to be unbelievable drama. It's going to be great. The Kyrie,

I mean, we'll talk about it Friday. I don't want to get ahead of myself. It's going to be great. Okay, two things I do want to mention before we get out of here. The first is, I know that everybody is going to,

everything with the Celtics is going to be based on how the finals go. But while we're giving out flowers tonight, like we did for Jalen Brown, like we did for Derek White, Drew Holiday, and the like. They put up a stat at the very end of the game, which I thought was super interesting. It said that Joe Missoula is the youngest coach to go to the NBA finals since Bill Russell in 1969.

Wow. At 35 years old. So that would have been player coach, Bill Russell. So that really doesn't even count. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, I mean, 1969, 35-year-old, he gets to the NBA finals. And one of the things I said was he could be the Achilles Heels.

One of the things that we discussed throughout the year. What happens when he has to go up against these coaches? And I know these coaches didn't have, you know, all their guys. But it was Eric Spolstrup and it was Rick Carlisle. And it was, you know, so he's there in this NBA finals at 35 years old. And I know that there's Celtics fans that have questions about Joe Mazz. And his, whatever the opinion is of him, will be determined on what they do NBA finals-wise. But he's still 35-year-old coaches in the NBA finals, right?

I got it. You got a lot of talent to play with. Typically, the players are able to decide games. But we've seen a lot of coaches squander talent. You've got to give him credit for getting there. You can't take it away from him. He's 35 years old and the guys in the damn NBA finals. I know there's some people that say, well, hell.

you can put anyone on the sidelines that they coach that team to the NBA finals. I'm not so sure. And I know that he's been beating up a lot. Probably doesn't get as much credit as he does deserve. And Lord knows, he'll be raked over the coals if he gets a clown suit put on him by Jason kid in an NBA finals. But no matter what, he got them to the NBA finals. And that's pretty impressive to do it at 35, no matter what, anybody says.

The other thing I want to mention is, and I've waited until the end here, you know, sometimes you can become callous to seeing people pass away. You know, there's not a day or a week that goes by that you don't see it. But when that news broke this morning about Bill Walton, my phone absolutely blew up. It was in my pocket. It was ding, ding, ding. And I'm like, what happened? So I knew something had happened, right? I knew something it happened if I'm getting a bunch of texts in a row.

And then I saw that Bill Walton had passed away, and I got really, really sad about that. You know, I've talked on the mismatch. Everybody's heard me talk about Bill Walton in the past. When I was very, very young, and I was doing a sports radio show, he was one of the first guests, like big guests that I was able to get. He was doing a live it, love it live it live live tour. And he was like an ambassador for the NBA going from city to city doing playoff games.

And he came on my show. And Bill Walton has always been a historical figure to me in sports for a very good reason. My father went to, at the time, Memphis State. Memphis State has made it It made it to the national championship game In 1973 And so you know how like your dad Will always tell you stories about sports?

You grew up a sports fan like me, right? And in 1973, UCLA played Memphis in the national championship. My dad's alma mater. And from the time I can remember sports, I can remember my dad telling me stories about the greatest basketball player game he ever saw.

which was Bill Walton, who went 21 for 22 for 44 points in a national championship game against Memphis in St. Louis. And I remember hearing that story, like my whole life. And then when I was very young, when I was in my early 20s, I had Walton on the show. And he just talked and talked to talk to talk. And I remember him talking about he had had these foot surgeries and there was like a very famous foot doctor. in Memphis. I can't recall the guy's name. So he comes on the air and he says, I, you know, not only do I have the connection to Memphis because of the national championship game. He said also one of the greatest foot doctors on earth saved me. I went there and he worked on me and he shouted out the guy. The afternoon host at the time is this guy named Jack Eaton, who is former, he's like the Channel 5 guy like sportscaster, but also the voice of the Memphis Tigers. He goes on the aired that afternoon. He said, I heard Bill Walton on Chris Vernon's show this morning, and he was talking about Dr. So-and-so. And he said, we lost him years ago, but I give anything if he could

have heard that, blah, blah, blah. I swear to God, Kevin, the friggin doctor calls into the show. It goes, Jack, I'm not dead. He goes, I'm not dead. He goes, I'm not dead. And so that became like this running joke for a long time. The guy was literally literally literally. listening to the radio. And Jackie was like, oh, yeah, Bill Walton went to this foot doctor. He was great. And the guy passed away years ago, and I wish he could have heard that. The guy's like, I did hear it.

I'm not dead. So years past, he's honored at the National Civil Rights Museum symposium a couple of years ago for Martin Luther King Day and came in studio with us. And that's where I've told you the story about him before the show, just save it for the show. And we still say that all the time. Every time I tried to talk to him, shave it for the show. And he was the most electric, positive, just force of nature personality. And getting to meet him in person, I posted the letter that he wrote for my son that day.

And, you know, not only. the basketball world, but just humanity loses such a bright light. He's so positive and so full of life, despite the fact that Kevin, well, I tell you, he came in studio and when he was doing the Save It for the show thing and whatever, I mean, he's just stretching like crazy, doing all kinds of stretches because he knows he's going to have to sit in a chair. You see him walk around. The guy has a thousand surgeries. Can barely move.

And he'd give anything to be able to run and jump and do all the things. You know what I'm saying? And yet he woke up every day with this crazy positive attitude. And anybody he came across just wanted to spread that light and talk to. And man, it made me sad. It made me sad. Obviously, everybody talks about. the basketball wise but I had and you know what's crazy I started to get emotional it's the first

time my dad has texted me about something like that in a long time and he texts me tonight he's like I was so sad to see the bill Walton news and he goes he was one of my favorite guests you've ever had on and I was like damn man damn it's sad you know what I mean we always talk about how sports sometimes it's connected. It's not about necessarily the sports, like the connection to makes with your friends, family, etc. And like,

he's just been a part of it. It's like one of those, like my dad telling me about Mickey Mantle or some crap, right? And then I got a chance to know the guy, meet the guy. And he was everything, you know, you could have ever expected him more.

I loved him. And sad, man. Sad. I was watching the 30 for 30 to, There's four parts. I watched the first two parts. The luckiest guy in the world. I know.

That's what Bill Walton calls himself, despite everything you said, all the surgeries he's had over the years and all, like the way his body has failed him over the years. A whole of him career, but it was ripped away from him. Yes, exactly. And he calls himself the luckiest guy in the world.

And there's a scene in there where the producers are kind of saying, how do you call yourself the luckiest guy in the world with all of these things? Right. He's like, well, I am. I am the luckiest guy in the world. And there's another scene where they talk to all of his kids. And they're like, when we were younger, you know, or, you know, when he was on TV, people would say, you know, this must be an act. What's he like at home? And they're like, he's the same exact guy. Like, he used to, when he used to make them a little lunch bag to bring to school, he would write a message on there with like some inspirational quote for them to think about throughout the day.

He was the same exact guy. And I think whether you watch Bill Walton on TV or you followed him in his career when he was very outspoken, despite also having a speech impediment when he was younger, he grew through that and he became an outspoken voice. He was always, every step of the way,

authentic to his true self. Yes. And, you know, I think that's the thing that I'll always remember Bill Walton for more than anything else. Yes, he was a legendary player. Yes, he was an incredible broadcaster, but more than anything else, he was an authentic human being who is true to who he is as a person, unafraid to be himself. And I think that sets the most beautiful example for anybody to fall in a matter what stage they are in their lives. And I look forward to watching parts three and four of that documentary because I very much enjoyed parts one and two hearing from his wife and his kids.

And the people have been part of his story every step of the way, teammates, coaches. everybody, everybody who Bill Walton has ever been around seems to love Bill Walton. Yeah. Rest in peace, Bill Walton, sad day. Rest and peace. Kevin, this is going to be super fun. We'll see what happens with Dallas and Minnesota. On Thursday, we'll either be talking about another game that's being played in the Western Conference Finals,

even though it doesn't seem all that likely. Maybe Minnesota back against the wall can put up. a fight, but we do know we're going to be talking about Boston in the NBA finals. So we'll see how this all shakes out and we will reconvene on Thursday night. Thank you to our executive producer Jesse Lopez as always. And Kevin, I'll talk to you Thursday night. Can't wait, man. Must be 21 plus in present select states or 18 plus in D.C. Fandul is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with the Kansas Star Casino LLC. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit Fandle. undool.com slash RG. In Colorado, D.C., Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, and Vermont. In Arizona, call 1-800 next step or text next step to 533342. In Connecticut, call 1-88-787-77 or visit ccpg.org forward slash chat. In Indiana, call 1009 with it. In Kansas, call 1-800-5-2-2-4700, or visit KSgamblinghelp.com. In Louisiana, call 1877-7-7-70. Stop.

In Maryland, visit MD gambling help.org. In West Virginia, visit 1800 gambler.net. In Wyoming, call 1-800-5-2-4-700. In Massachusetts, visit gambling helpline, MA.org, or call 1-800-3-27-50 for 24-7 support. and in New York call 1-8778 Hope New York or text Hope New York.