The Mismatch - CJ Stuns the Garden, Minny Upsets, and Billy Donovan Out as Bulls HC

Episode Date: April 21, 2026

Verno and Jacoby return to react to Monday night’s thrillers in Denver and New York, the Cavs dominance, and preview Tuesday night’s playoff matchups. Plus, they discuss Billy Donovan stepping down as the Bulls head coach. Welcome to The Mismatch! (0:45) Knicks game 2 collapse turns Hawks' CJ McCollum into a villain (21:28) Wolves-Nuggets: Timberwolves steal game 2 in Denver (32:10) Weekend Play-in finals were terrible (34:28) Raptors-Cavs: Cleveland handles Toronto in game 2 (42:53) 76ers-Celtics: Sixers' horrendous start, 4-23 from three (48:53) Blazers-Spurs: Spurs aim to take 2-0 lead on Portland (53:55) Blazers owner being cheap, no T-shirts and two-ways allowed (59:56) Rockets-Lakers: Two non-playoff teams in the playoffs (1:03:31) Magic-Pistons: Detroit faces must-win after game 1 upset (1:08:37) Breaking News: Billy Donovan steps down as Bulls coach after six seasons (1:12:01) Jacoby takes on the red carpet of 'The Devil Wears Prada 2' The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Leave us a message on our Mismatch Voicemail line! [phone] Hosts: Chris Vernon and David Jacoby Producers: Stefan Anderson and Jeff Shearin Social: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the mismatch. I'm Chris Farnan. And joining me to see us every week from Ringer.com. It's Dave Jacoby. Jacoby. Verno, the playoffs started over the weekend, but let's be honest, those games weren't great, Saturday and Sunday.

We had some games last night. We had some games. You good? No. Do you know what? So I've had a lot of time to sit and think about this game, Bruno.

First of all, that was a Knicks win. Like, they were up the entire, time. Nine points. It gets down to eight. It's up to 12, 14. They're just cruising comfortably the entire game. And I've had a lot of time to think about this for now. Do you know what this really feels like? It feels like the Celtics game one and two from last year. Oh, I was going to say. I was going to say Indiana. A little bit like that too. But Indiana felt those were like closer games though. Like this was a the nix were cruising to a two nothing hold serve go to atlanta with a two game lead in the

series it was just cruising that direction there was no part of me that was concerned with five and a half minutes left brunson hits a shot to put him up eight and i was like okay because you know six is close they're up eight with five and a half minutes left and i was like this game is over great we have a two nothing lead and um c j mccullum C.J. McCollum did happen and it does feel strange watching the crowd chant FUCJ as if he is Trey Young. It is like this trade has happened and now they have, but he doesn't, like he's not the guy that bows like he's on Broadway. He's not the guy that does the ice cold. He's not any of that. So it does feel like he is miscast as a villain.

He even addressed this after the game last night. DJ, you've never joined a pretty shortlist of Hawks Guards. How do you feel like tonight's performance played into a villain status, maybe? I am no villain. I'm a nice guy with two kids and a wife. I got to feel the same. I got to feel the same. I mean, like, you're not.

You know what I mean? Like, like, like, try you're all. wanted to be. He was like the, oh, burr, and he's like bowing to the crowd or whatever. CJ McCaule just, like, played well and, like, knocked down big shots. During a million years

ago at Grantland, we went to the combine and interviewed a lot of the prospects. It was Bill and Jalen interviewed them. And CJ was one of the prospects that came through. And he sits down and does this interview, and he just seems like a 55-year-old man. You know what I mean? Like, he's just so

mature and, like, experienced. and he was just like so together. And we were so impressed with him and his maturity at that time. And I think what this is is the residual of him saying what he said after game one. Do you remember that when he was like,

Jalen Brunson thought we used a Broadway show or whatever? I think there's a little bit of like residual bad feelings about that. But hats off to C.J. McCollum, ma'am, because I remember he had a couple game winners with the Wizards and he started playing so well once he got to Atlanta. And he had himself a game last night. And, you know, Jalen Brunson is not a defensive stop. And there was two possessions at the end where he just went right past Brunson and got buckets.

And he hit a really tough baseline fade away over OG that was just, that was, I mean, that was a really tough shot. And, you know, hats off to C.J. McCone. Okay, where are you on blame game? Why the Knicks lost game two? Are you a, this is, Brunson was trying to prove that he could score on. every wing defender and should have gotten his teammates involved. Are you, McCall didn't want any part of that last shot? Are you Mike Brown screwed around with lineups and did stuff that they haven't done like the whole year?

Like, because he did do things that they have not done like the whole year. Like sometimes these guys, you know, we'll get to Detroit a little bit later, but I kind of felt that way in the Detroit game. It's like, hey, what is it? What is this? It said, I saved one from last night. It said McBride, Shamet Clarkson played 23 minutes the entire season without Brunson or cat on the floor. McBride and Shamet played 46 minutes the entire season without Brunson or cat on the floor.

Mike Brown didn't attempt to this all year, but has randomly decided to try this out now for no apparent reason. And that doesn't bother me because at that time, they're cruising. to a victory. Like, it's not like those minutes were terrible for the Knicks either. Like, it was the starting five that fell apart at the end. Well, and here's the thing. What's so crazy to me is, you know, it's 61, 54 at half. And then they come out in the third quarter and I'm like, oh, here we go. Like, all right, so Gay's gotten hurt. Landau is out. They bring in Tony Bradley in the first quarter and I was like, what the hell? I was like, I thought Tony Bradley. No choice. I thought Tony Bradley. I thought Tony

Bradley was a pacer and he was. He was. They said Tony Bradley has played three games. And I'm like, he's played three games for the Hawks. And he's in a game two in Madison Square Garden against the Knicks getting first half minutes. So like they had nothing. So back to what I was saying, they come out in the third quarter and it's like, what's the advantage here?

And Cat goes nuts. Carl Anthony Town. He's, Carlin Thetton. He has. He had four at the half. In the third quarter, six of seven from the field, 14 points, six rebounds, two threes made. And it's like, here's the advantage, here's the dominance.

Let's just make them pay. A Kang who's literally out there by himself. They have nothing else. So I'm glad you brought this up because if you remember, before the series started, I thought there's just going to be a huge cat series because they have defenders for Brunson, but they have no defenders for Kat.

And if you remember the first possession of the game, cat gets a bucket. And then it wasn't much later than that. He gets another one. And then nothing in the entire second quarter. And he goes into half with four points. Game one, he had like zero points, like midway through the second quarter. They just don't get him going early.

Like I, that to me is the advantage, is Carlin-Lithetown versus the front court, or what's left of the front court for the Hawks. And it didn't show itself. until the third quarter. I'm so glad you said this because I read this quote, and this was after even game one that they won. This is Mike Brown.

When Kat wants to be, he can be a really, really good defender, especially at his size, he can cause some problems. I've kind of said it all year long. It's a matter of whether or not he wants to do it all night. As of late, he's been really good on that end of the floor.

Okay? So that's what he had to say. So anyways, 100 years ago, I did this interview with Tashon Prince, who was part of those great Detroit teams that went to the Easter Conference finals over and over and ended up, you know, winning a title.

And so Tashon Prince told this story to me about how when they were during their run with the with the Pistons, he would, Larry Brown said, we're going to come out and we're going to the first play of the game. first play of the game, we're throwing it to you, Ben Wallace, and you can do whatever the hell you want to do.

You want to take an 18-footer, you want to throw it over the backboard, you want to do anything, right? And Tashon was like, there's a method to this madness because he touches the ball, he's involved with the ball, and we're going to need him to rebound and block shots and do all that dirty stuff all night.

And if he's a part of things on the offensive end, and he goes, and there was a game during the Lakers series that they won and they beat Kobe and Shaq. He goes, you can go back and watch it. I can't remember what it was. It might have been game five. But he's like, you go back and watch. And he goes, the tip comes, first play of the game, Ben Wallace pulls up from like 18 feet.

He said, when I tell you the roof came off of Auburn Hills. Like it was. And he's like, oh, he's like that. He's like, the moment I knew, we got this, right? and you have seen this wisdom that Larry Brown used so many years ago in a lot of different situations. And it's like if you want your big guys to really engage on the defensive end, get them involved on the offensive. When they've got it going offensively, that's when they,

but when they're just running up and down the court and never touching the ball and you're expecting them to block shots and rebound all the time, you don't get the same guy. Guys that are involved on the offensive end find their way to be involved on the defense event in a different manner. And I thought about that last night. It's like I'm reading that quote from Mike Brown

and I'm like, I bet what you would find is you get the best defense you want out of Carl Towns when he's part of the offense, when he's not getting three shots, when he's involved. Because you think about like that third quarter, did anybody complain about Carl Towns defense? Of course not, right? No. Because he's cracking on one end

and then he gets all excited on the other end and now he's really like they get locked in. Big guys are hard to get locked in on the defense event sometimes. And I just, you know, then you get to the fourth quarter and it's just Brunson Brunson versus Dyson Daniels versus big long wing defenders.

Obviously, you know, what's his name? Naw had a huge strip. matter most. Oh, he had a huge strip. I mean, that, that was the play of the game right there. It was. You know, Brunson hit two huge threes down the stretch to keep him around.

Because they were up four at that point. Then they have an ATO and Brunton hit to three. And then McCullum misses two free throws, which is, and I thought they had a timeout. The broadcast thought they had a timeout. I thought they had a timeout. I was fooled. I thought there was going to call time out. But apparently they had no timeouts left.

Okay. The broadcast fooled me. That was a. a monster. Thank you. Like a monster. Our Eagle says they're guaranteed to take a timeout

after this one, which was the second McCallum free throw. I don't count the timeouts myself. I rely on the broadcasters to tell me whether or not they have a time out. There's no way to know. You lose them. I don't count them. Yeah. You have to be a broadcaster to keep up with me.

because they lose them if they don't use it before this. You don't know how many of the have? There is a marker on the screen that says it. And then what I'm saying is the broadcast said, guaranteed to take a timeout after this one. And then they're coming down. And he goes, no timeout is used. If you go back and watch the broadcast,

that's what he's saying. No timeout is used. Macau Bridges shoots a shot. Oh, to fall short. I mean, to be fair, they did not have. have a timeout and the players knew it. So the game would have played out the exact same way. But my experience as a fan watching the game,

that was crazy. It was kind of ruined. It was kind of ruined. That was crazy. Honestly, that was crazy. I blame, that's who I blame. You ask me who I blame. I blame Eagle.

Ruin the end of the game. All right. Can I, can I, can I, let me ask you this. Does it worry you that they have not gotten a good Alexander? Walker. He's been, you know, he's a menace defensively. He made two huge plays. I understand. The strip and the three, that three from the corner, contested ass three. That was a tough shot. I understand. But he needed. But he's three for 12 in that game. They haven't gotten big time Jalen Johnson. Jalen Johnson was six for 12, 17 points. That's not like 30 point triple

double Jalen Johnson. They got Cominga, man. They got McCollum and Cominga won that game for him. And they went away from Daniels if you saw that. They kind of went away from Daniels. And comminga, like 35 minutes. I didn't see that coming. The other thing is nine steals and seven blocks for the Hawks in this game. The defensive activity. And Dice of Daniels like, I mean, just pummeled every screen.

He's like, at one point I'm like, he's like elbowing people in the head. He's like a shoulder to another guy's head. And I'm like, oh, this is getting a little feisty. Then you have Mitchell Robinson trying to do the Alan Iverson stepping over Ty Lou on and that makes Daniels all mad. And it's like, oh my God. Like I kind of liked it. There was a little bit of heat in this thing.

But that's two games in a row. You know, they started a little bit late in game one on their comeback. But that's two fourth quarters in a row. And the other thing is I was reading this morning, that is the worst fourth quarter the Knicks have had all season? Seriously? They've never scored 15 or less. 15 points in the fourth quarter, bro.

15. And then those two threes that Brunson hit when they were down and they needed them were kind of desperation, that's six of their 15 right there. And they did it in front of Timothy Shalame? Oh, he showed up. You know, I did see people blaming Steve Cohen. You know, the Mets haven't won a game in like a month. And Steve Cohen showed up in a...

They lost 11 in a row. And Steve Cohen showed up in a Knicks hat, and they lost. Might be his fault. Are you worried? No. What? No. No.

Oh, I'd be a little worse. I'm not worried. Not concerned. Should I be? Why should I be worried? The reason I would be worried is because, you know, look, and you agreed with me when we came in, and I said, if you're playing these slowdown under the one teens, you remember, that's what said last week, that's in your lane.

The fact that the Hawks won 107 to 106 would disturb me. That's what it would disturb because I would think that game needs to get flying up and down to be in their range. But they, they went heads up and like C.J. McCollum was the J. Jalen Brunson role. That was crazy. Honestly, that was like what we thought Jailen Brunson would do when it comes crunch. time is what C.J. McCallum did when it came crunch time. That, when Nikola Alexander Walker stripped Brunson, I just sat there with my mouth open.

I was just shocked. Brunson is so reliable. I mean, everybody misses shots, but like something like that, just a, like a, to have the ball strip from you that leads to a Jalen Johnson dunk, then you're down four. Like, I was just, I just sat there. I was, I was, I was flabbergasted. It was, floor. I mean, and, and look, they, they were active.

They were active and like McBride, Shammit, Alvarado had zero points combined. Zero? I mean. That's tough. That's tough. That's tough. Zero? Can't give me a bucket?

Between the three you go? McBride played 13 minutes and Alvarado and Shannon played nine. I'm surprised you're okay. You're not sky is falling. You think they're going to be fine, huh? No, I'm not. I'm not sky is falling. No.

Because you say like, oh, Jalen Johnson hasn't been triple double. All-Star Jaylon Johnson. Conno Thigh Towns had a nice quarter, but I honestly feel like Connolly Town says he needs to take over the series. They have no one for him. They have no matchup for him. That's what would upset me. That's what would upset me. Like, what are we doing? I'm not there yet. I'm not there yet. I'm not there yet. Okay. Here's what I think coming out of that. I do think that it guarantees us we're going to be watching a game six in Atlanta. And then we'll either get, right? Likely.

Right. So we're going to get a game six in Atlanta. It would be a great series. And then we're either going to get a game seven in New York or not. But I never expected that we would be coming on after a game two talking about C.J. McCollum turning into the Trey Young figure. Like, what is that? What is that?

Really? It's 2026. 32 points. the game. That was crazy. I know. That one he hit over OG on the baseline. Nuts. That's such a tough shot. He was just feeling himself. But he went by Brunson twice, just like. Why do they let him hide on defense?

In the way that he exposed Brunson, why are they letting him just hide in the corner? It doesn't make any sense. Hart played well. Oh, Hart was shot out of it. of a canon at the beginning of the game. I mean, just everywhere, doing everything. He was absolutely awesome.

Honestly, like, through three quarters, that was the next game. It was. It was the whole time. If you were just to tap me on the shoulder in the end of the third quarter, be like, they lose this game.

I'm like, how? No. Vomited all over themselves. They really didn't feel like, it didn't feel like it wasn't a back and forth game. There was zero lead changes. They never even, like the Knicks never really called time out to stop a run. Like it just felt like a Knicks win the entire time. Yeah, it did. The entire time. And then they felt part at the end. Well, maybe they'll, I'm not worried about it. Maybe they'll

realize that they have a Neko of Kongwu and Tony Bradley, who's been there for a week. Tony Bradley's staying corporate housing in Atlanta. I mean, forget, look, I love with a duffel bag. I love Brunson like you do. But I don't need Brunson going freaking 10. for 27 trying to go up against gnaw and Dyson Daniels and whatever when Carl Towns has the matchup. It's like throw them the ball, bro. Like what are they doing? Bizarre. Like they do have great perimeter defense on this team.

Towns, I know they do. And I thought this would be a town series. Towns had 12 field goal attempts, five of them from three. Think about that. So that means he took seven shots, seven two point of shots. That should be the first quarter. He should take seven two-point shots. I mean, you watched him in that third quarter,

and I was like, all right, here we go. Yeah. It was the same thing in game one. Game one, he had zero points, like in the middle of the second quarter. I don't understand. The mismatch is brought to you by Banduel. The NBA playoffs are here,

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Tonight in the late game, I think LeBron James is going to have over 10 assists. I think Alpern Sengoon, after a terrible game one, will bounce back. And in upcoming games, I think the Knicks are going to dominate game three. And I think Carly in Three Towns is going to. actually start scoring in this series. And I will be playing all that on

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Call 100 gambler or call 1-88-78-9-77-77 or visit cpg.g. Dot.org slash chat in Connecticut. The late game was an absolute classic. What a game. So we are now at 1-1 in another series, and that is Minnesota versus Denver, who have, you know, as they were saying last night, I can't remember. the exact number. I want to say they said it's like they've played 31 times now.

It was like. It sounds like 16 and 15. I think it was after. Unbelievable. 15 and 15. Yeah. Unbelievable. Like these teams just go back and forth.

And speaking of fourth quarters, I mean, if you would have told me that Murray and Yokic were going to get absolutely clocked in the fourth quarter that McDonald's, that McDaniels is just going to put an absolute straight jacket on Jamal Murray, and Rudy Gobert is going to put a straight jacket on Nicoliochic? Like, what was... It's crazy.

I mean, what an unbelievable defensive performance by Minnesota in that fourth quarter. Like, truly, to do that to that team who has been doing it for years and years and years and years and years and years, and you know what? coming and you still can't stop it. And they're both so individually and collectively awesome. That was so impressive last night.

That was like heart, determination, everything. And just like five guys locked in on the defensive end. That was crazy. They put up a graphic at one point. They're like, Yolkich and Murray combined for two points in the fourth quarter. I was just like, what? Oh, it was unbelievable.

I was shocked. And look, I like, look back. I was like, what? Everybody knows, look, this is going to carry way more weight from me because I cannot stand, Gobert. He was awesome. The most dominant two-point performance in the history of the NBA playoffs. The most dominant two-point performance.

He was awesome. Hold on. Hold on. After the game, Anthony Edwards was asked about Rudy Gobert's defense. He had to say. People just don't want to go at Moody. Like, regardless of what they say about him on, the offensive end of Florida, He's a four-time defensive player in year for a reason. He's been doing at a high level for a long time.

And we need him on the floor. That's why I challenged them at the end of the third. Because, I mean, Yolk is just what? He made me four times, NDPs three times. What is he? He got three NPPs. But, like, Yolke's got four defense players. I mean, really got four defense played a year for a reason, man.

Like, he can guard. So I think people got to start respecting him, you know, put some respect on some respect on his name. And that's what we do, man. We trust him. I told him, like, though, we ain't bringing him to the other team. If Yokic is the best player in the world, certainly didn't look like it in game one in game two.

I know he had a triple double in game one, but did that look like the best player in the world last night? And I'm telling you, this is a familiarity. These teams know each other so well. And Gobert, this is why Tim Conley went and got Rudy Gobert. The exact reason. When we talked about how your Knicks are built with the Celtics in mind, because it was like, this is what we're going to have to deal with.

Inevitably, when we get to the draft this year, there's going to be an onus put on big guys in a way that maybe they weren't in the past because people are going to look at the league through the prism of, hey, man, we're going to have to deal with this 7 foot five frico in San Antonio for the next 10 years. We better have something to throw at, right? And, you know, when you have a team that is built like Minnesota, and we talked about this with this in mind, and they're both so high level and they know each other so well. Gobert does a great, like that was, he did so good.

He did such a good job on him last night. He really did. Especially when you saw, like, you know, the other one I thought held up really well was Randall. He kind of got underneath him and played strong like the other Jalen Williams does in Oklahoma City sometimes. Nas Reid got torched. Like, Nasreed had no chance against him. No. But Gobert was there for the fight.

man and like look I'm going to give credit where credits do he was unbelievable and as you mentioned the two points might have been the most awesome two points in league history he like shoved him out of the way and then dunked it I was like dude and then and then yokech came right back and dunked on him and then did I thought the the microcosm of the entire game and I was pretty frustrated with yokech's performance because like as someone who thinks he's the best player in the planet he certainly didn't looked like it, especially after watching Wembe on Sunday night. But a pick and roll, Murray gives Yolkich a pocket pass. He's got tons of space about 10 feet from the basket.

And I'm just, you know the plan I'm talking about. I fully expect him just to shoot a floater. And instead he tries to tuck a pass, past Edwards to Christian Brown, and it kind of gets deflected so it slowly like dribbles to Brown. And then Brown gets fouled, goes one for two. And that was a huge play in the game. It just felt like, it felt like Yogi's a little deferential. felt like he was a little fatigued.

It just didn't feel like I was watching the best player on the planet. Well, and they also, they had them so out of sort. I know Gordon hit that one big three in transition at the end, but even after the Brown play, right? So then they go to the other end and now they're down three. And, you know, I know that the announcers are like, you don't need a three here, but you don't need a contested 23 footer.

Oh, the Murray one? What was that? That was terrible. What was that? Like, if you look at, like, modern-day shot charts, that spot is empty. That spot is empty. What? If you're like a Kurt Goldsbury, like, hexagon chart, no one shoots from there.

Why is- No one shoots from there? Against the fourth half-deafs the player of the, what are, what is going on? You tested long two? That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. They're so frazzle, and that's just not what you see out of Denver. If there's anything, I do want to say this.

They're the team that's like, they're going to keep a cool booty. We're going to run our stuff. You know, we're going to get a good shot. And it's like, that is just, that's just terrible team stuff. Like, you're down three. You got no chance of going to the free throw line when you shoot a 20 foot pull up. No chance. Well, I understand.

I agree you don't need a three in that spot, but go to the basket. Strange. I don't want to say this, though, Dante DiVincenzo. Like, God, man, he's built for it. Look, what a game from him. Oh, my God. Huge shots, no fear, no hesitation. Give me the ball on him.

That thing's going up. It just, it was just, it reminded me of him on the Knicks. Like, it was just, that was, I love that game from Dante Devincento. Oh. They don't win without those shots. No way. And then, of course, he gets the infatic ending to it where he pulls himself up on the rim at the end of the game. I mean, they absolutely.

I mean, I was just, I was so wildly impressed with Minnesota last night because that's like a backs against the wall. I mean, look, man, you can't, this is what a great series is. And you can't put yourself in a position where you've got to win four of the next five against a team that good. And they did it. And they did it. After game one, after game one, I was very concerned about Edward's health. He didn't seem like himself in game one. And he didn't have a great game yesterday, but, you know, he's got enough.

He's got enough to get him there. Well, and the other thing is, can you win, can you win, you know, now three out of the next five? And the answer to that is yes. Yeah. They can't win three out of the next five, especially when you got the, now you stole home court advantage. And remember game one, the very beginning of game one, the Timberwell sort of jumped out and took a lead. Like, it's all forgotten now because the Nuggets ended up winning the game. But I remember thinking.

Like, the Nuggets just don't have the defensive resistance to stop the wolves. And after the game, Jadenald's had something to say about the Nuggets defense. Um, go out, the Yokes, Jamal, all the bad defenders, Tim Hardaway, Cam, Dioces, Aaron Gordon, the whole team, like, just go out. They're all bad defenders. Yeah, they're all bad defenders. Yeah. And just against Saturday on the tape.

And then it will be feel like you guys constantly ready. Yeah, just they don't got people that could defend the ram. And if he is there, we still more athletic than them. And just got to be able to finish when they do it. There's a discipline involved and just staying in that attack mode. Yeah, you got to, yeah, just sometimes you got to know when the attack and when the right moment, and just if it's your time to shoot at our past it. But either way, if you just break the paint, you're going to have a shot or someone else going to be open.

Amazing. He's naming names. Amazing. naming name. Tim Ardo Jr. Camp Johnson. He's in Aaron Gordon. We watch shut down Wimb and Yama like a

amazing. All bad defenders. All. All of them. They're all bad defenders. They got no one that can defend the rim. What is he doing? They're all like this whole like athletes are so careful to not give the

other team bulletin for material. And how many times we heard someone say like they've got a great team in that locker room. We're just lucky to go head to head with them. It's going to be a long series. They're so good. You know, bowed down, respect, respect, respect.

No respect. None from James McDaniel. No, the only one that, like, dodged the bullet was, I guess, Bruce Brown, who actually, he made, he just forgot about Bruce Brown. He made two monster energy plays in the fourth quarter, like, those shot, and I was like, this is, like, this is title run, Bruce Brown.

You know what I mean? Like, he's making those, like, grimy plays and then knocking down shots and then everybody's like, Bruce Brown. really like that's the guy um that was just i i i can't i can't say i can't i can't say enough either about like how good minnesota was when it mattered most i mean just awesome do you know what i love to absolutely love from this game anthony edwards travels they call him for a travel and yokech wants to get the ball out so he tries to grab it from edwards that was i was just like just give me more of that

So now we got McDaniel saying the entire team can't defend. We've got Edwards and Yokic kind of going back and forth at the end of the game. Like, this game got me hype. Because let's be honest, Chris, I love the NBA so much. The playing games were so great. Those first four playing games, God, that was amazing. But all day Saturday and all day Sunday, there was very little competitive basketball. Okay, good point.

It started Friday. I settled in. With the other play-ins. I settled in. in and I'm like, hell yeah, here we go. We got Hornets magic. We got sons warriors. And they stung.

Stunk. And then all day Saturday, I spent 11 hours. I ignored my family for an entire weekend because I was working, watching basketball for 11 hours in a row. And there was not like one point where I stood up and screamed at my TV, not once. Okay. I'm going to give you a perfect one. So Sunday, it was beautiful outside.

But I'm like, you know what? I got to watch these games. And work. Bro, when Oklahoma City went up by 30 on the Suns, I told my wife, I said, I'm going to hit golf balls. I can't do that. Do something. Like, this is, this is stupid.

What am I doing? Like, it's been nice outside all day. And I'm just watching terrible basketball. Like, well, because the first guy, I had, so look, sorry, sons, but you paid for the transgressions of the 76th. Because I just watched them get their ass kick. And I'm like, okay, that sucked. And then the second game, and you know,

I texted you guys on our group text. And I'm like, bro, we just need a good game. And thank God for the magic and the pistol. Because that went into, that was the afternoon game. And that went. Yeah, that was fun. And watching Wemby was fun.

Watching Wemby was fun. Like it wasn't a very competitive game, but watching him was fun. And the Blazers showed a little something in the second half of that game too. So we did have late afternoon Sunday, night Sunday, and then the carryover to Monday, which now this sets up two,

like, unbelievable first round series. Two of these, because the Atlanta one now has turned fun with the next. Both the three six series. Yes, and that's going to be great. Now, the early game, which I did watch, all right, I'm going to tell you something. I know that there's going to be a recoil to, like, the Raptors

and how, like, the Raptors aren't good enough. And we could talk about Brandon Ingram or whatever. I thought that Cleveland thing was devastating. I did. I'm watching them. And I'm like, oh, brother, that backcourt in unison being that awesome, hearted and Mitchell. and then they've got the running buddy.

Like, Mowgli was awesome. Yes. I'm watching that game and I'm like, yo, say whatever you want about Toronto. Toronto is like scratching and clawing and they're trying and they ain't got enough offense, right? But they are. They just don't have enough front court. Right. Yaka Perl.

I've been saying this since like October. Like, what is their plan in the front court? But they had guys come in like Walter and Mamu and, uh, Murray. And Murray Boyles. Like these guys came in and were giving them like energy. And I kind of liked what they brought to the table. And they're trying to go small.

And then they're trying to. And Scotty Barnes is like bully-balling people to the rim. And like Cleveland just withstood it. And we talked about this in our preview for the series. There's just like this assembly line of white guys that is your fifth beetle. And like the first game, it's Max Trues. and he makes everything. And then it's Dean Wade is so good in the first game.

But then it's like Dean Wade, Sam Merrill, Max Trues. They throw a little Jalen Tyson in there. And it's like, I'm like, all right, this is going to be fine. I'm not even really noticing that wing player that I thought I was going to have to notice. But the back court being simultaneously so awesome. And then having Bobley also be awesome, that's where I was like, like, dude, we always talk about the white people. And it's like, okay, Mitchell was awesome.

Hardin was awesome. And Mobley was awesome too. Like, how far do I have to get down? They did a good job on Jared Allen. Like, how far do I have to get down before I find somebody that wasn't massively efficient and effective? And I thought it said a lot about Cleveland because, you know, you're throwing kitchen sink at somebody

in a game, too, when your back's against a wall. And for those guys to all be simultaneously awesome, I know that there's going to be a ding on Toronto for that. But I walked away more impressed with Cleveland than I thought I was going to be. They have the offensive engines with Hardin and Mitchell are just like unmatchable. Look at this. So Dean Wade, the fifth beetle, he was one for three from the field.

Evan Mowgli shot 84% from the field. Jared Allen shot 66% from the field. Donovan Mitchell had 23 attempts, 56% from the field. James Harden, 64% from the field. They mean, so who did you stop? Who did you stop? I think Keanu Ellis had zero, right? Did he have zero?

Yes, he had zero points. He was over four. They shut down Keon Ellis. Remember when he was the hottest trade candidate in the world? That was weird. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Keon Ellis fell into that, like, who was the,

guy years ago for the for the clippers who's like gone into witness protection now uh terence man he fell into that pocket where it's like you can't you know i mean no he's untouchable like unless you're going to give us first round picks like you know we're not moving terence man like i haven't heard terence man's name in three years and it's like keon ellis i watch him come in and i'm like you remember when everybody said that he was like like oh you're going to have to give up a lot there's a big market for Keon Ellis. And I was like, okay. Well, I think picking up Shrewder, too, is big for them.

So if he almost got, he almost got his head taken off twice last night, Dennis Schrooter. Here's a question for you, Berna. I want serious question. Is this an overreaction? Right now, of all the teams in the Eastern Conference, I would say the Cleveland Cavaliers would be sort of the most likely to end up in the Eastern Conference finals?

That is a first, that is a first round overreaction, but. But if you look at the Celtics and Knicks, like they'd have to play each other. And then if it clearly beats the Raptors, then it's going to be magic or pistons. I would be interested because that will be like

mega physical, whatever, whoever they draw out of that one. And so I'll be interested to see how they like match up. And the other thing is, you know, the Raptors, look, We'll see how they do when they get back to Jurassic Park. Like the quickly thing, they have to have him.

They have to. If you're relying on a manual quickly, you're not a serious. I'm not taking you serious. I understand. But I'm just saying like it is a, they have to have him back. And Brandon Ingram cannot come throw coaches under the bus and then come back with a zero point first half and a three for 15 game. I mean, it does. I tell you this.

RJ and Barnes, they were there for it. Those guys were there for the fight. RJ, RJ was great. No, no. Those guys-R-J was great. Also, just the way they, like, pump their chest out and, like, those two were there for it. It's like, all right, we're going to scrap. Like, we're here for the fight.

And then you turn around and, like, Brandon Ingram's, like, I don't really feel like fighting. Ingram's there only, like, get yourself a bucket guy, and he did not get himself a bucket. No. I hope Glorilla yelling at him. He's supposed to be there like ISO score. I hope Glorilla yelled with me.

I hope so too. You know what I mean? That's the only thing you can turn this series around is Glorilla. That's it. Like, what's wrong with you? That's the only hope they have. That's the only hope they have.

What's wrong with you? Come on, man. And like, you can't come in the press conference after game one and be like our coach wanted to use me as a screener. And it's like... And then do that? Come on.

Are you serious? Because those other two, they were then. there for the fight. Like I gained respect for and Matt I thought RJ played great. And Mamu's there for the fight. Like you just want like who's going to come in a scrap for me? You know what I mean? Like that's what these things can become wars. And I will say they could have gotten run out of the gym and they didn't give up. So that said something to but I still was I was mega. The biggest takeaway was just Mitchell and Hardin. Like yeah.

I mean those guys are individual offenses. The Hardin once said that he is the system. Remember that? It's Like, I am the system. And, like, Mitchell was just hitting tough shot after tough shot. He's unstoppable. Every year, Donovan Mitchell reminds us that he's one of the best playoff performers in NBA. Yes. Like, and usually a bunch of his teammates are in street clothes and they end up losing and he's got 42 points. That's usually how it goes for the Cavs.

Yeah, his like points per game is amongst the top, like, five in NBA history. The guy is a bona fide star when it matters most. And. Absolutely. And now he's probably got some running buddies with them. That was, you know, we'll see how they, we'll see how they look when they get back to Toronto. But I do know this. You can't have, you can look at one thing in that box score.

And it's 22 turnovers and 23 assists for Toronto. 22 turnovers. Having, I mean, 22. 22. That's why I say, they need quickly just so you handle the ball. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, I guess, yeah, quickly will do that. You know what I mean?

dribble the ball up and pass to somebody. I mean, Shed is just so miscast in this role. That's not, it's not even fair. You know what I mean? It's like, hey, I mean, he's good defender. But it's like, bro, you, like, now we're playing in the playoffs against Donovan Mitchell and James Hardin and I'm bringing Jamal Shedd to the party. Yeah.

That's a tough one. That is tough. Anyways, I'm so glad with the way that last night played out, especially because we went through we went through Friday as we chronicled Saturday, Sunday all the way to the afternoon, and then it got good. And then last night was unbelievable. I was even entertained by Cavs Raptors. Honestly.

I was entertained. So that was three good. I was locked down the Knicks. I was locked down the Knicks. I mean, I know. I know you were. And so was C.J. McCollum. Yeah, he was.

He was locked in. All right. This is what we got coming up. as we recorded this on Tuesday morning, 76er Celtics got off to a horrendous start. So do we think, do we think that the Sixers can punch back in a game two, or is this just the way it's going to be? Because I will tell you that, you know,

there's that zigzag theory when it comes to NBA playoffs where you could typically take, like the team that got run out in game one usually can make it close in game two. Vegas is not messing around with this. The Celtics are 13 and a half point favorites in game two. So they just think this is a whiteout. They're laying 13. Oh, I don't know.

They think it's just a wipeout. I just can't imagine the Sixers are going to shoot that poorly again. They were four for 23 from three. four for 23 from three. They shot 35 of 90 from the field. They're 40% from the field. It was. I just can't imagine they shoot like that.

It was just such a domination, though. Didn't you feel like the Celtics could have won that game by 50? Really? Oh, yeah. Like, I mean, it was just like this is not, these teams are not, these teams are not peers. That's how it's watching game one. I was like, oh my God.

Like, because the Sixers kind of happened. us, they kind of won us over with that Orlando game. It's like, okay, all right. You know what I mean? Like the max has got the chain on at the end. And it's like, all right. Like, what are the chances, even in a big game against the Celtics? Like, I got it.

Like they just had to play. And now they're having to go. And now they're having to play game one or whatever. But it's like you could foresee a circumstance where in a game, Tyrese is the best player on the floor in any game. Like he has gotten to that level. Absolutely. He has gotten to that level.

And it was like, you watch that game unfold and you're like, hold on. Is Jason Tatum like 100% now? A hundred percent. Is he better than he was last year? What was sad? What's going on? How are you so awesome? What?

Are you coming back from Achilles? It was shocking. That was my biggest takeaway from the game. I was just about to say that. My biggest takeaway from the game was just how good Jason Tatum looked. I mean, there's no answer for Tatum and Brown. None. It's amazing.

It was amazing in that game. Like rebounding everything, assist. Like, I mean, dominant. He has 10 rebounds at halftime in every game. He looked. He looked like first team all NBA. Yes. I can do everything.

I play defense. I rebound. I play make. I shoot. I'm efficient. Top five MVP getter. Yes. That's the version of,

Jason Tatum that showed up for game one. And I'm like, this is jarring. How good is this guy? Like, you're just expecting that like, you know, it's like, all right, it's Jalen's team now and, you know. I hate the whole, whose team is it, whatever? Like, like two players can't be good on the same team. I understand, but the pecking order thing.

I didn't expect it. After the season played out the way it did, I was like, oh, well, Jason Tate will come back. He won't be fully himself, but guess what? they've got a go-to guy now in Brown. But it didn't look like that in game one. No, it looked like the Celtics were awesome and the 76ers suck. Yes.

That's what it looked like. The 76ers could not hit a shot. Could not hit a shot. Kelly Ubrey couldn't hit a shot. Remember Ubrey in the playing against the magic? Frustrating. We got a link to this. Do you think we get a game today?

We got a link to those socks. That whole thing, like, he's doing this for, millennials with it like you know they had that whole conversation like is he wearing socks and then they show it he's got like the little tiny tiny ankle socks with the low top i like those i like the no shows it just looks i like the no show socks he just looked bizarre a seven footer with a seven footer with low top shoes and no shows on NBA game is wild behavior i don't think that was olinic oh that was olinic i'm sorry you got your kelly's mixed up yeah your kelly's mixed up i did get my Kelly's mixed up.

No, I just, I felt like, I, I hope they surprised me. But I had so little confidence in them being able to make this fun. I think it'll be, I think it'll be close today. I think it'll be close tonight. As soon as I saw the line, that's what made me rethink it. Like, if this was eight, nine, I'd be like, oh, you know what I mean? Like, they think they're going to, like, they're going to punch back. 13 and a half.

I'm going to put 20 American dollars. 13 and a half. Just right now. Are you really? 20 American hard-earned dollars. Don't text me when it's 50 to 19. I won't. Don't say why did you talk me out of this?

Because I'm telling. It was 14. I'm getting 14. God. 20 American dollars just made it on the 6ers. 14 in a playoff game. All right. Well, look.

The same thing goes, Trailblazer Spurs. It says it's 11 and a half. So, I mean, that would, again, let's hope that these are more like Orlando and Detroit, where the line is big, it's expected that one team is going to dominate the other, but it surprises us. But what's happening right now, at least for tonight's games, and we'll get to the late one a little bit later. But for tonight's games, we're not supposed to see highly competitive basketball tonight.

And so let's hope that those lines are wrong because the Celtics are supposed to mingle the Sixers. And I'm just, the fact that it's Sunday at noon, I spent two and a half hours of a beautiful day watching that has got me so down on the 76ers. I'm rejuvenated after last night. Okay. I was fired up last night. Okay. But. I mean, the Knicks fell apart.

But that Nuggets, the Nuggets Wolves game, because I thought the Nuggets Wolves would be the best series. because the Knicks was more like a collapse and, you know, C.J. McCollum, big flourish at the end. But that Nuggets Wolves game was like, this is what I thought I was going to get. Well, and I'm not, honestly, when we're talking about San Antonio and Portland, I'm not too amped up for that one

until it gets back to port. You know what I'm saying? Like I would be surprised if they're able to make that, like, mega competitive tonight. but like the game for these teams, just like I said in the Toronto thing, like game three is the one that if it becomes a general, like usually that's what,

it's a first playoff home game, you know, your crowds all amped up, your backs against the wall. The other team doesn't need it like blood and you do. Like that's the home run effort, right? But I would be surprised if you get some kind of like massive home run effort out of Portland tonight and they're able to,

even though they did put up a much. There were flashes. There were flashes in that first game. I think the big takeaway is like a Wembenyama. I mean, Wibbenyama had so many highlights and so many just such an impressive performance from him and that is the number one takeaway from the game. But there were spots where the Blazers went on runs. And Denny, Denny being awesome was covered up by Wimbunyama doing the 35. Denny had 30 in the game, right? 30. Yeah. That was work.

And we were just so impressed with him in that play-in situation where he was just absolutely awesome against Phoenix. And he took over down the stretch. And it's like, all right, what are you going to do in your first playoff game? Because again, as we always say, you're top of the whiteboard now. And his response going up against the team that's got unbelievable perimeter defenders and Wembe Manning the paint was to have 30 in the game. Like, that shows you what that kid's made. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean?

I think, do you remember, I'm sure you don't, because you don't listen to me when I talk, but the key to the series was, can the Blazers provide some sort of blueprint? Like, can they show the nuggets or the wolves and eventually probably the thunder what you do against Wembe Nama? And I think like Tumani Kamara on Wembe Nama

can be something interesting. Like this isn't new, putting like a wing on Victor, but like I think that they can neutralize him using Kamara. And can I just say this? I agree with you. Like it'll be sometimes with these big guys, right, the smaller guys that could just get up underneath them. It's like, fine.

If you're going to shoot over me and make a ton of shots, so be it. Right. No one was better at this. Chris Paul was great at this. No big ever scored on Chris Paul because he just got under him, pushed him out super physical because the reps never going to call it because he has a size disadvantage. And I think that using a smaller player, again, this is like, you know,

the signs did this famously. They're strong. Yeah, using a smaller, strong person that can move Victor off of his spot because he hasn't filled out yet is sort of one of the ways that you can neutralize. I mean, obviously he's seven foot seven and, you know, you can hit step back threes. Nothing can do about that. But that is the blueprint. It's the one defensive thing that James Hardin would be awesome at when he does it.

Yes. You know what I mean? Yes. Like he's strong. James Hardin is stronger than you think. Strong. Like you don't move him off as spotty. Like he,

his numbers were always good back in the day in terms of like post-ups, right? Like when he was down low, he was able to hold up in a way that maybe, you know, he, you can't blow past him in the pain. And I, you know, I got to always think another, I'm interested to see if Steph,

Steph Castle can knock down the threes. he was shooting well at the end of the regular season. Yeah. But it does feel like they're going to make him make some to respect him. I also, can I just comment on this very quickly? Of course you can, Mr. Vernon. I think it's, I listen to a lot of NBA podcasts from our brethren and others after yesterday, right? Mm-hmm.

And it wasn't just Bill and Zach. It was me reading articles. It was, you know, Mark Stein's newsletter. It was commentary that was going around. Like, we watched Portland beat the Sons. And it was an awesome story. And Denny Advia came into his own and played like a superstar. And it's like, this is fun.

And now it's like their chance. and they made it to the playoffs. They had to go and win their way in on the road. They did it. Now they're where the rifle is served. And every story is about this new owner and about how he didn't send the two ways to the game and about how he's not buying the t-shirts

and about how he's low-balling Tiago splitter. And about like, what is going on? Seriously. what is going on? How is this? You just got here. How is this happening? How is this happening?

Like this is the time for good feelings, good stories. Your team's in the playoffs. Your best player is like there for the fight. He's been awesome. And it's like you're going to allow like you being a, Bill calling him El Chippo is unbelievable. But then I was like, wow, wow, is that really? a big deal. And then, like, as soon as they start talking about it, I see the, I start seeing

these stories everywhere. And I'm like, this is wrong, bro. This is wrong. This is wrong. This is wrong. That this is like, they're talking about low ball in the coach. The two ways didn't get paid for it to go. And like, Caleb Love played a lot of minutes for them this year. Like, what are we talking? Yeah. Like, I'm just cheap for being the sake of being cheap. And it's like, this sucks. Like, but how do you spend four billion? million dollars on something and then try to save $10,000 here and there. So weird. Like, it reminds me of, like, my wife will buy, like, a $400 shirt and then get mad because

I spend, like, $10 a month on clawed. You know what I mean? It's just like, what are we talking about? Like, like, how are you, like, going to be the nickel and dime person on Tuesday and then be Daddy Warbucks on Wednesday? Like, if you spend $4 billion on something, don't try to trim around the edges once you get it. It's just so odd that you're a lot. allowing this to be a thing.

It's so odd to me. Your team's in the playoff. Why on earth would you want headlines everywhere about what a cheap skate you're being? And they haven't been in the playoffs forever. It's not worth the bad publicity. Whatever it costs, it's not worth it. Like you want everybody excited about the future of your franchise

and instead like the stories are about you and your unwillingness to spend on this new toy you bought, and everybody's like, what the hell? It's just, it's, it's really, really poor PR management. It's terrible PR management. It sucks. That sucks. I feel so bad.

I feel so bad for them. It's like it's the most exciting time of year. You go through this slog of the regular season. Your freaking head coach got indicted. And it's like, now- It's a great point. You started the season with your head coach getting indicted. When was the last time they were in the playoffs?

This, right, this is the fun. You made it. This is the fun talk. And it's like you wake up and you're just reading more stories about how your new owner is a cheapo. And you're listening to podcast about, like, I'm sorry, Portland fans, you deserve better than this. You know what I thought you were going to say? When you started this, so lame, so lame. When you started this, I thought you were going to say, I can't believe Bill hates the T-shirts.

Because I thought this, this first, t-shirts were just top-nosh t-shirt. Oh, I love them too. That was great t-shirting. Great t-shirt. He old-maned that. Bill old-man that. He, you know what it is?

Bill's the guy that doesn't, he doesn't want to wear the t-shirt at the game, right? Like, I got it, right? Like, I mean, he doesn't want to wear the t-shirts. I got it. But, like, there is a, especially I love this, because, you know, I'm in a small market.

Like, the community, the community of it. Like, that's- You can talk about this all. the time. That's the point of it. It's the community. I was like that Manu Genoobli had the T-shirt on. We're all in this. The Tim Duncan had the T-shirt on. Yeah, we're all in this. We're all in this. I love that they

brought out the legends. We're all rooting for them. I loved it. And we're all- Popovich, Manu, Robinson, and Duncan. We're all-loved it. We're all, I loved it. That's what it is. It's a signal that we're all rooting for the same thing. Yeah. You know what I mean? And we're going to create an advantage because we're all, there ain't nobody in here, rooting for that other thing. Right? Also, like the New York crowd and the L.A. crowd

are always trying to, like, get these fits off, you know, and get on camera and look good for each other. They're like, no, we're here to watch basketball. That's what we're here to do. And if it's going to help the team win for me to put on this creamsicle colored t-shirt, then I'll do it. The arena looked cool, too. It looked really cool.

It looked cool on TV. Visually. It looked like a soccer game. It looked like you see those soccer games in, like, Barcelona or something. They're like, that looks awesome. That's what it felt like. And Wemagnama gave us everything you could possibly want. Anything, everything you could possibly want.

He was fantastic. I'm happy to hear you say that. All right. The late game tonight is Rockets Lakers. Let me ask you this. Do you think either of these teams as currently constructed would be playoff teams? As currently constructed? I felt like I was watching two non-playoff teams in the playoff.

in the playoffs in a four or five game. I don't think either of them over the course of 82 games would be playoff teams. With them without Luca and no way. No. The Lakers for sure no. I think the Rockets would be a playoff team. No, you don't.

Yeah. No, you. I mean, you do not think the Warriors, the Warriors were almost a playoff team. Almost doesn't count. They're not better. I think the Rockets.

You think they'd be better than the suns or the Blazers? No way. Yeah. Kevin Durant's playing tonight. He's playing. As long as he plays, then they're back to being... I think he practiced. He's questionable as the latest I saw.

My boy, Luke Conard, was firing, though. They had no answer for Luke Canard. I love Luke Canard. I'm glad he's not on the Hawks. I'm glad he's not on the Hawks. I love Luke Conard. He was fired off. I was happy for him.

I can't stand when Lakers guys have success, but I love Luke Conard. He's a lot. The awesome dude. Yeah, Luke Knoir. It's a awesome guy. And it's crazy. I'm watching, like, the friggin

Grizzlies from two years ago played for that damn team. It's like Luke Kinnard, Jake Laravia, and Marcus Smart. It's like, and LeBron and Aiton. Like, what is happening here? Three of those guys were like,

other Grizzlies two years ago. This is bizarre. Smart was good. Smart was really good. Smart was good. Shingoon was crap. Oh. Oh, my God.

He was so bad. I'm thinking to myself as like Durant's out, right? Who do the Lakers have that can stay in front of Shangoon or stop? Who? The good Lakers defenders, if you could say that, who, like, smart. I'll give you smart. Jackson Hayes, Vando, Aiden. Vando, yeah, Vando.

LeBron. But when he locked in for the five possessions he does. Bronny, I guess. Yeah. But you got Aiton, Aiden and Hayes. I thought Shingoon was going to have 35 points. And all he did was just catch the ball. He does the same thing every time, tries to back his guy down,

and then takes a little spinny to it, spins over his right shoulder and misses. Every time. I thought that was two totally average basketball teams playing mediocre to poor basketball. I thought game one. And Luke Carnard. And Luke Carnard was absolutely on fire. But game one sucks. It was not.

I liked the first quarter. LeBron having like eight assists after the first quarter. It was just bad. LeBron being like, all right, show, I can still do this. It was bad basketball. It was bad basketball. I believe in the playoffs again, Verno. I'm not going to let you drag me down into this.

I believe. After last night, I'm back. I hope so. Look, this is the one that's actually got the shortest line. So they expect the rockets to, like we just need to get players back. We need the ramp back. And then we need to, we need the Lakers guys back. Yeah, I just need Luca in my life again.

Play off Luca. Just whatever robotic stem cell blood spinning, thinning you got done in Spain. Just get out there on the court. I mean, maybe the thing goes long enough to where they can get some guys back, right? All right. Two others that we just need to mention. Because those games are not going on tonight. A little extra time for Detroit and Orlando.

And Detroit's got to sit there and marinate in their loss. Detroit's got to sit there to marinate in their loss. Do you think that that was, is it scary hours for Detroit? And it's like there's Cade and nothing else. And oh my goodness, they should be worried. Or do you think that didn't have the right competitive edge?

That was not what we've been used to seeing with Detroit. They gave up 35 points in the first quarter. and that was a bad that Orlando played really well was a bad representation of Detroit and we'll get to game two and things will look more normal. Which one?

I can't imagine a world in which Jalen Duren is that ineffective in game two. This was Duren's big breakout season and he didn't look like himself in game one. And to big up the magic we always talk about

Franz and Paolo and whether or not that's sort of a duo that can move forward together. Are they too redundant? And we said the same thing about Tademan Brown before they won a championship. And then I was watching the game

and I'm like, well, if you're in Detroit, who do you put on Franz and Paolo? Like, who do they... Asaar. But then they're mad that he doesn't... He's not good enough on offense. And so now we're doing Danish Jenkins. like J.B. started doing stuff in that game too.

And Duren was just a total non-factor in that game. It was crazy. They took away that K. Durin, you know, pick and roll lob thing. And it's like, okay. So now it's kick it out to somebody. And it's like, okay, this feels like too much to bias. This feels like too much. You know, like they're going to have to, they're going to, they got some figuring out to do.

but to me it was and I know everybody's going to focus on the offense it was more of the defense it's like bro the magic were what the pistons have been that won them 56 games they were the ones diving on the floor fighting punking people out so physical rebounding pushing people out of the way sucks sucks a menace a menace and fronds in the second half fron's in the second half was unstoppable and the other end of the room the other thing is like we've been we were so done with the magic after that Sixers thing. They were done with the magic. The magic themselves were done with the magic.

And then they looked amazing against the Hornets and awesome in game one to the point where you're watching them and they're like, you know, they do have a bunch of good players. I mean, Windle-Cumner were great. Great. They look awesome. Find me the sucker in their starting five. They looked awesome.

Find me the sucker. They looked awesome in that game. I'm like, what is this? Why have you sucked? I mean, and the other thing is, I just watched you a week ago. Looks so disinterested in winning basketball games. Against the Sixers. I just watched it.

They looked so disinterested. Palo stung. The team looked fractured, mostly searching for answers. and then they turn around and against Charlotte they like it looked like it looked like the varsity versus the

JV. Looks like yes looked like little brother big brother in the backyard. Yeah like you are not ready for this like it just punked them out and then turned around and went and punked out

the Pistons in game one. I didn't know what to make of it. I was so shocked. I'm like, who are you? What is this team? I can't. Carter Suggs. So,

Hollow. They were so good. They were so good. They were so good. I think Detroit will get a back to. I think Detroit wins game too. Detroit will. I thought, by the way, I thought Detroit sucked.

So I thought it was a combination. I thought Orlando played extremely well and Detroit sucked. And I would be surprised if we repeat that. If we do, then you got major problems on your hands on your head. right? I mean, imagine a world in which we completely, imagine like you're looking back at this season. You're like, you know the magic made the Eastern Conference finals?

And you completely forget that they were terrible all regular season? I mean, I heard them bring up like that it was the, the heat did it a few years ago. Remember when they ended up playing Denver? Of course. So. Of course. And then the other one eight is, I mean,

do we think the Suns can even win a game against a thunder? No. No. Okay. No. All right. Before we get out of here, two things. First, we've got breaking news while we're recording this.

Billy Donovan has stepped down from the boss. After they got rid of all his bosses, it says, wait a second. It says after I, because I thought they were just going to put them in the front office. Yeah. It says after a series of thoughtful and extensive discussions with ownership regarding the future of the organization, I've decided to step away as the head coach of the Bulls and allow the search process to unfold. I believe it's in the best interest of the Bulls

to allow new leader staff as they feel fit. And of course, they got rid of Arturis and they got rid of Mark Eversley. And I guess they're going to be overhauling all of that. At the end of the announcement, is he like, I will now be coaching the Orlando Magic in Game 2 against the Pistons. He is not, but I will say that we do need to remember Michael Rinesdorf, the Bulls president, when they got rid of Carnasovison Eversley,

like he made it very clear that we want to keep Billy Donovan going forward. Keep Billy Donovan. And it wasn't part of the job search that Billy Donovan was a fixed variable in that equation. Like if you want to be in this front office, you have to understand that Billy Donovan is our head coach. Wow.

So, I mean, I guess... Didn't you say that you knew from someone who knew Billy Donovan that they were going to give him more than he was going to be in the North Carolina job and this is that that that was the thing that Billy Donovan wanted more power. That's what I was. The Donovan like, you know what I mean? That that's why,

because all that stuff was weird. Go back and look at that North Carolina timeline in conjunction with the Bulls timeline. And whether or not he was ever going to get the North Carolina job or not, I don't think there's any, I'm sure that was leverage, right? because he again you got to follow the timeline it was out there from college writers that he would be interested in the Carolina job right like college basketball writers like I think it was Jeff Goodman had that story who covered him years ago at Florida right like he's basically he's a phone call away and then you go through the timeline and it's like the Bulls announce that they're blowing out the front office Billy Donovan is going to stay there that's what Ryan Storff says and then within like i mean literally that day north carolina hires michael malone as the head coach as

as as the head coach at north carolina and it's like okay like what because they remember it was like april 6th or something it was like a couple weeks like it was an odd timing with the bulls thing anyway it was an odd timing and then so at that point someone told me like billy wants more power more say with the bulls but it looked like there's a vacancy in there in the front of office where there's a power vacuum for him to fill in. Perhaps those conversations didn't go the way he wanted to. But it does feel like the Bulls need to sort of make these kind of wholesale changes because they've been so bulls for the past like eight years.

They can't hurt anything. They're in no man's land with a weird roster. And yeah, they're rudderless. They've looked rudderless. You know what I mean? But interestingly enough, also last thing before we get out of here, before the second half of the Knicks game last night, you had to be in an event.

Oh, yeah. Because you're so famous. And I was reading Vogue this morning, and I saw. Oh, you were just reading Vogue? Well, I was just looking at their red carpet pictures from The Devil Does Prada 2. And I saw you on this.

The devil wears Prada's too. Oh, yeah, the devil wears Prada. And it's you and Lady Gaga on the red carpet pictures. And I was so proud to see my co-host. first of all, the reason you're at the premiere is because your wife and Anne Hathaway are big buddies, right? Yeah, yeah. Annie's been a very close family friend for decades.

They were college roommates together. I met Annie when she was 20. And I didn't even know she was an actress for like four years. She was just Annie, Joey's friend. Right. And, you know, she's the godmother of my twins. And her and her husband, Adam, are very close to us. and Adam invited us to the premiere.

And I was just wearing like regular clothes, like a regular suit. Like I was going to like a job interview or something. And I was way underdressed. I should have worn like a feather boa. You didn't. Like a kilt. Like it was just like everyone was just really just throwing. They looked like they were like Shea Gilders Alexander in like a tunnel walk.

That was like the entire look. And I was just sitting there like in a suit. Like I was like an accountant or something. It's like it was the Met Gala. it was crazy they treated me like I was a celebrity they're like oh you gotta go to the picture station

you have to go to the picture station and I was like oh my god I can't believe I'm to walk the red carpet and devil wear a fraud like no one gives a shit about some NBA podcaster I was like I told my wife I was like I am not going on the right carpet like no one knows who I am

they're going to take one picture of me just because they feel bad for me so I can hear the shutter click but instead it was like literally I was behind a wall behind the red carpet. They took one picture of me. In a closet.

And then the lady is like, the lady's like, I, it's my job to see you out now. Like you can't be here. Oh, like, see you out. Oh, like your riffraff. Yeah, get out of here. Yes, exactly. Of the red carpet.

Lady Gaga's walking up. Lady Gaga's walking up. Get at scram. Weirdo. But the, I've seen the movie a million times because I've had a 10 year old twin daughters and they love the movie. Devilware is part of one.

And this movie, it was just a fastball down. down the middle. It's just, it's awesome. I laughed a lot. I cried. There's great clothes. They go to Italy. Is it, do you, oh, I think I can say this now because I saw it last night. Do you know who makes an appearance? What NBA player do you think is in Devil Wears Prada 2? Uh, SGN. No. But New York Knickerbock. Not towns. Towns. No. Carl Anthony Towns is in Devils Where's Prada too. And oh, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like some sort of fancy dinner in the Hamptons.

Oh, I thought it was, I thought you were going to say he's at the very end and they don't throw him the ball. He can't, he can't figure out how to get the ball. They're playing pickup, they're playing pickup, but he doesn't score for the whole first half. It's just Meryl Street crossing him over. You're backing them down, giving him buckets while he can play into the rest. Stanley Tucci, giving him work. It was an awesome movie. It was an awesome time.

And I didn't get reception inside the theater because I thought I would just be streaming the next game while the movie was going. Oh, you couldn't? But the movie ended at halftime, or right before halftime, actually it's the second quarter. So I got to, so I'm just sitting there in the after party, surrounded by all these fashion people and famous people. I'm in the corner just looking at my phone with my headphones in the entire time.

Is your wife mad about this or she understands? She doesn't care. She's with all of her friends hanging out. Yes. I'm just in the corner with the security guys. Just watch the Knicks. And they're cruising the entire time. They're cruising the entire time.

So this morning I woke up at like 545 so I could watch the Cabs Raptors in the first half of the Knicks again. Do you hate C.J. McCollum? No. Why would I hate C.J. McAulham? I don't know. He's a sweetie.

The whole crowd said F.U.C.J. I don't know. That's a compliment. He's not a villain. He's got two kids. He told us earlier in the show. He's got two kids. I got a wife and two kids.

Yeah, I got a wife and two kids. How can I possibly be a villain? I don't even understand that. You know, like, someone's got a woman. gun to someone's head. They're like, I'm a dad. I've got four kids. No, hold on. It's irrelevant. No, I don't. All right, me and you, we're going to have one last

disagreement before we get out of you. Okay. How many villains have a wife and two kids? I agree with C.J. McCallum. Think about all the villains in history. They don't have a wife and two kids, bro. That's not fair, because I'm thinking of fictional villains. Well, that's what villains are. They're usually not

real. You hope not. They're all real villains. Jeffrey Daalberg did, like, wake up and make lunches for the kids and bring to school. How many, how many real psychos are

villains have a wife and two kids? Ted Bundy wasn't having a catch with an eight-year-old in the backyard. Yeah. I agree with CJ. I think, yeah, you got me there. So I can't be a villain. I'm a great guy. I've got four kids. I'm a great guy. All of a sudden. That's the qualifications. I don't know. I think it's two. I think once you get the four, you could turn into a villain.

You must be a psycho. You could. I'm the guy with two. I'm never going to be a villain. You on the other hand. You're a villain in Oklahoma City. I'll tell you that much. You're a villain in Oklahoma City.

You on the other hand with the four kids, that could turn to you. You could go into villain mode. All right. That's going to do it for today's show. Thanks to Jeff and Steph as always. I'll talk to you later this week. Remember you must be 21 or over and present in select states

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